2025-05-23 - BBI

Welcome to the Big Blue Insider. Dick Gabrielle with you on a Friday edition of a program. It is a special edition because the Chain Gang is here. They are on deck waiting in the garage. They will join us after the next break. Doug Flynn, Keith Madison, the Hall of Fame UK coach Doug of course, my broadcast partner on UK Baseball on the SEC Plus, and the radio voice of the Wildcats, Darren Hedrick, who may or may not be finished for the season. We'll find out Monday,

That probably yeh.

By the way, at the time I got, I'm up there and I'm working on my little iPad and looking all right, it's time to go to sleep. Put that thing down. I've been a good sleeps. Lights go on and everything, and Darren's words go on, Well the pad come okay, cifications at night?

So I need help. You need to help me do that?

Well, I need help on I have two chain gang groups.

Yeah, you need to do that.

I don't know. But somebody's got any fixed fault, isn't it probably? Or is it Key's faulty?

Find a twelve year old. They'll fix your phone for you.

So some of some of y'all's messages I get. Some of the I don't get.

I mean, we don't send you a lot of them too.

Yeah, the one we're talking about you, we leave you out and we're talking about you. You don't get on yeah, but uh yeah, so we we decide we get together in the garage. Many of you have heard it. I've gotten a lot of comments, which we appreciate. People enjoy the chain gang, and we talk as much music as we do sports, and and we talk about of course personal experiences and and Doug. I was thinking about you. Well, I'm always thinking about Doug. But earlier today my broadcast

Wow ye. And I mean it's got tape on it and I had to have it stitched up and everything. Once you get a glove, I mean, I wasn't gonna make any money with my bat, so I better take care of my glove. So once you get that fix the way you want it, you don't want to And you know what always gets me pictures. I feel like they got to take around balls like you would come over and grab my glove. And now that you put that big paw of theirs in there, it's all stretched

It's not bad form, bad baseball form to grab somebody else's.

Grab somebody else's bad. Oh.

But you know, back in the day when we were coming up, I mean you didn't have your selection of bats and gloves. You had a glove and a bat, and so you were if you saw something loose, you're gonna grab it, right.

Keith, That's right? Yeah, and I grab yours.

So anyway, but I do to give those four away to the minor league kids, and then i'd keep I had my spare I take in field with, and I had my game glove.

Well did you do you still have that glove? They still have it? Last seven years?

Yep.

Got they said that.

I retired en after the gold glove, and then I used another one my last couple of years.

Well, see, and you told me that before, and I would have thought you might have kept that because it was the gold glove glove.

Yeah, but it was. It was a little nappy, it was dip it.

And I still have my little league glove no way.

Yeah, I have like a mitten. It's like it's got a big thumb. I remember.

So, hey, this is true. I went to a baseball camp one night and these little kids were there, and some of them didn't have gloves, and so I took mine, and I told this little kid, where's your glove. I don't have one here. He used mine. He looked me too, little nine year old kid.

Yeah, I've got my my little league glove, my high school glove. I've got one of the gloves I used when I played in the miners.

And and then.

I've got a UK glove that was given to me because I threw batting practice a lot back in the Yeah, I remember, but I just saved it by the way.

He threw lousy batt and he couldn't throw the ball straight right. He throws sinkers, clutters and everybody's going to tea just we just went bad practice, trying to get guys out. But what I mean, what are they gonna see in the game. That's why it's not pitching practice. It's batting practice. I know, but you don't.

But then they go into a game with bad confidence. Yeah, I couldn't hit and bat in practice. I can't in the game.

We can't hit that old guy out there.

We go let these young guys out here doing Darren, what's your glove story.

I don't really have one. I mean, I had a glove when I was little, but I still have it somewhere, but I didn't play you know, any high level organized baseball. I've still got it laying around. Yeah, yees, sometay. I want to be like Doug when I grow up.

So I had I had a glove that I loved thirty years. It was, you know, just what I need, and I wore it out, literally, I mean the pocket itself. So I go to go to buy a new glove and you know, you save your money, your paper out money or whatever, and I just could not make it. Finally bought it and didn't like it. I couldn't get it broken in, couldn't stand it. I guess that was I was probably thirteen fourteen, and I came home one day and my dog gets showed it up. Oh no,

I'm not sure I know Nick Allen.

Is that Dick Allen's brother, got it? It's Mel Allen's brother, Richard. Don't call me Dick Allen. Yeah, Dick, don't call me Richard.

All Right, here we go. Not only does does he get a new one every year, but he won't use it in BP and warm ups and things.

Were you the same way?

It was game only.

H after so many years? Yeah, yeah, so you had to you had one. You go out from VPN and you were still trying to break that one in as much as you could. And the the leather was pretty good back then. You know, it lasted a long time. Yeah, I still have it. I got it. It's and it's amazing how it looks. But I looked at guys. I remember Bill Mazeroski. I got a chance to see his glove one time. He'd walk out through the field. He'd have it rolled up like a paper towel in his

Yeah?

Because you had your own hands and everything. You broke it in the way you wanted and so yeah, just I mean, I still love the smell of it too.

Oh yeah, yeah, you know. Uh. George H. W. Bush's baseball glove is on display at his presidential library, the one that he used at Yale.

Really you can see it. I offered mind to the Reds and the Met's Hall of Fame.

They went, no, thank you, And your name is.

What.

One of my favorite writers still is Dave Kind and Kendred wrote a book called Glove Stories, and it was just a collection of great baseball stories. And he's the guy who in retirement started covering a middle school girls basketball team up in his hometown in Illinois. And on Facebook post stories. But he was such a great baseball in golf. I mean he's a great writer, yes, But he keeps his high school myth. He played high school baseball second base, and he keeps his mitt with a

Yeah. The way they make gloves now is really good because when we got them around the hill, there would be a lot of padding in the heel of the glove, yes, and so you'd have to take a bat and sit there and pound it and pound it and pound it and pound it down because we weren't smart enough to unlace it and take it out. Today they just don't put it in there anymore. It's so it's flat, which is good because a lot of balls hit off of

Where did I read that Bill Mazeroski's glove. Really it was about the size of his hand.

It's a little bit it was flat though. Oh really, Yeah, he just he'd wind that thing up like a paper towel, put it in his back pocket and go out. And uh. Then you look at his video because when he played, a lot of guys will form their gloves, you know, certain ways. It was almost like flat and uh.

But he just gave more control.

I guess, well, it's good for a double play, because we know a double play. You just the ball didn't really touch the very long but he had a way he folded and catch the ball that was off to the side.

But I saw Ozzy Smith explaining as an old clip from I guess the Baseball Bunch or something like that. But Johnny Bench how he saw another player do this and developed that knack for not even holding the ball in his MIT when the buck he would just sort of accept the ball with his MIT and almost instantaneously switch it over to his throwing hand.

Yeah, you practice, I mean when you're just passing, and you tell young kids today, if you're just throwing work on that, work on really exchange. That's where you learn to do it. You know, you get your exchange while you're out there just playing them when the game comes. Ozzie Smith had the greatest pregame workout routine that I ever saw of any baseball player. Yeah, and I'm talking about ground balls. I mean it was short hops, backhand,

Yeah, he had a plan.

He had a plan.

Well, we are talking to the chain gang here in the garage, and when we come back, we'll talk more baseball, specifically Kentucky baseball. Up next. Hearing the Big Blue and Sider six thirty WLAP.

I was ready to get up and walk around the room like Mick Jagger with you.

Oh you've got let me get my phone ready for the.

Satisfaction was number thirty one on the Rolling Stones five hundred Greatest Songs of All Time. And it was kind of controversy. You remember that came out. Yeah, you guys are a little bit older, Yeah, but uh yeah.

It was.

It was part of the movement.

You know, the Stones were igy, Yeah back in those days.

Now they're just like another rock band, another eighty.

Still going strong brother. Yeah. Uh, we were talking about, of course, of course baseball as always, but Darren, you you kind of suggested that song as it reflected UK baseball this year. Everything. It was just not as satisfying last year, obviously, right, But that's kind of unfair to try to see if it could live up to last year given.

All the personnel loss doubt.

Still, it just seemed like they were and they still are alive as we speak, but always on the verge. They didn't quite break through. We thought they did a Tennessee, we thought they did with Oklahoma.

Yeah, that's the thing is so many opportunities for this team, so many one run games where they just kind of came up short. You look at the Vanderbilt series they got swept, could have easily won that series, maybe even swept it with the way Ben Cleever was pitching on

Well, and as we said, and coach you and Iris swapping tex I've seen Kentucky teams with more wins not get in, but the strength to schedule, strength at the SEC that's huge. But as Darren said, I mean, Hinda was playing so well when he got hurt, and you know, the guy they had lost so much of their pitching staff from last year, and but one of the guys they were truly counting on out of the pen was Hogan. He was so good down the stretch. Never right this year, it was never right.

No.

I was just thinking about him, and really, I mean he was one of the guys that I had coming up big in the late ends this year, and that you know that didn't happen. But uh, you know the good thing is they have a field of sixty four downs to the field of forty eight.

And that that helped him. Oh yeah, what.

Did what did the middle endfield show you, mister middle infielder? Because I know you like what you saw. And we were spoiled the last two years, weren't we by Grant Smith and a million petre.

I think they played all right. Uh. I think there's a way to go, you know, to get to elite level. The talent with Tyler Bell is really good. There's a few things that he could work on. I think that's going to make him, you know, be very good at the next level as well. I mean, he's got the physical tools right now. Sometimes a little lazy with his arm because he can, well you can, but you don't want to do that on double play balls and stuff.

You no, I mean guess prior to this level, you know, at the high school level, he didn't have to really worry about turning it loose.

Oh no, he Well what I found out he does have it's in there. Oh yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't use it. But mine is where I really want to see them excel is anytime they get a chance to turn a double play, they need to do it. And there are times where they're a little late, maybe either get into the bag or a little late they catch the ball a little late getting into your partner so he can turn it, because both of them turn the double play when they get the ball in time. Now,

Yeah, that could happen. Well, I mean, it looks like we're going to get to see him for at least one more year. So when you talk about Tyler Bell, some of this stuff is I think we view him and a lens. Obviously, he's following Grant Smith, who just did whatever it took to make a winning play, and that young man came out of nowhere made some tremendous plays. But with Tyler, the ceiling on his potential and his

And like you say, since we're talking about what's gonna make him better, it's not a criticism, it's just here's some things you need to work on right.

Use you've spoken to them and they were welcome to hear it.

Yeah they are. They are kaya scar gettu is there. We talked a little bit about just fielding. You know, you watch like the things that I watch, as you know, Dick, during the game. I want to see if they're getting that foot down in time, like, not after the ball gets to the plate. Get that foot down before the ball gets to the plate, because if it's afterwards, you're not gonna get as good a jump. And watch how they're you know, playing hitters and moving.

Uh.

And it was tough on these guys because they only turned twenty something double plays, but they had a pitching staff that threw a lot of fly balls. Yeah, so they really didn't get the opportunity to do that. And if they're back, they will be in my opinion, if they were to come back another year, they will be the premiere infield in college baseball.

Ye.

Thing I like about Tyler Bell's play is his back Ye.

I mean the young Yeah he was.

He could swing the bat and he's a switch hitter and uh if he, like Doug said, continues to improve as an infielder and he's got great talent there. Uh, I mean it's it's hard to coach bat speed and he's got bats on both sides. Yeah.

Well, and I had I have had TV talent, and scouts ask me where's his power? What side of the plates has powered? I'm like, well, he hit six on one side and four on the other.

You tell me he hit He hit one left handed one night though that was I don't know that there's been a ball hit further this year.

Well, he hit one that left the ballpark at Duty Noble, Like it cleared the backside concourse and that's out of the ball. It's a big park left handed. Remember it was left handed. It was shot left handed.

And you walk up beside him and he's six one maybe plus a little bit.

But if you I was about to say, if you go up to him when he doesn't have his baseball uniform on, that kid is big. Yeah, And that's my That's what I love most coaching. You can speak to this when you look around the league Texas, Tennessee, LSU, Arkansas, those guys are huge. Those Team Florida really massive. When you look at Kentucky's freshman, what do you see Roan Schwartz, big Tyler Bell, Yeah, Hudson Brown, Yeah, Yeah, they're big. I love the future for this program right now. And

But they are sec bodies, you know, they really are.

Prior to the I guess it was the last home game because it was rainy and they were doing VP inside. Doug and I went down to the cages and there was Tyler and I've been meaning to ask him this for some time, but I said, when did you start switch hitting? And he said he was three years old, three and his dad urged him to do it, and he said, I didn't like it. I didn't want to. Like most kids, when you switch over, you try to

But me is. He said he was natural right handed.

Yeah.

I would not have guessed that after watching him swing the bat.

But yeah, same here.

Yeah, no, it's it's it's fun to watch it and when you know, everybody knows his backstory by now that he was taken between the first and second rounds technically in the supplemental draft. But I guess you've told the story a couple of times, Darren. He just didn't hear if at all from Tampa. Didn't hear what he wanted to hear, but didn't hear much at all.

There's a lot of people, but you're not hearing from Dampa.

True, But now you understand what that franchise is struggling.

Right, Yeah, he had a number or he was coming to school, and when Tampa sent out and offered the number, I guess, you know, I don't know what it was, but it wasn't in the ballpark, and he just said, I'm going to Kentucky, which is where he wanted to go. Anyway, How good is it now?

When you come and play in the Southeastern Conference? You're playing at a high a level anyway, right, not you know, borderline double A because the pitching on every level and every team is really deep now. So you know, in the old days, you go to college and you go, yeah, now you're getting the pro ball and it speeds up. Now the game starts speeding up as soon as you get in the Southeastern Conference.

There's absolutely no question.

Well he's a guy who's got it, coach, as you said, he's got the bat speed, the idy arm and all and evidently willing to work, you know. And if you're willing to work, as you know, you go ahead.

There's a couple of stories that are you just don't even want to talk about this year. I don't I get to frustrated. But there's a couple of really good ones too, like James McCoy. James McCoy comes back this year not even gonna play. They don't know what he's gonna do, but he was a returning starter from last year's team, as you all know. And then he's just putting in his time and he's working hard, and he's

Coach Ben Cleaver can't tell me about him.

Hey, hang on, save that thought, because we're at the end of segments, so we need to, uh, I need to take a break satisfaction. That's right.

That guy is just a master of words.

Oh yeah, he is.

Uh, there's very few ever like him. And uh, a lot of people think I'm crazy for liking Dylan, but he is to me probably the greatest American songwriter.

If not think a lot of people agree with you.

Toss some names out it can he gets Let me, let me throw some names at you. Shub ties eyes, old Ben Abraham that's his Hebrew name, Okay, Elston Gunn, blind Boy, Grunt, Bob Landy, Robert Milkwood, Thomas Tedum, Porterhouse. These are all the names he he had performed under a written under Lucky Wilbury, Boo Wilbury, Jack Frost, Sergei Petrov, and simply Zimmy Robert Allen Zimmerman settled on Bob Dylan.

Yeah, I know the name.

Yeah, Yeah, Traveling, Traveling, Yeah, with George Harrison, Tom Petty, Roy Orbison and the guy from Yeah, jeff Lynn Flynn.

Yeah, that's the one. People that's like Pat Dobson on the Oriol's pitching status name you don't remember, all right, we were talking Kentucky baseball. We're in the garage, by the way, if you haven't noticed. Uh with the chain gang of Doug Flynn, Keith Madison, and Darren Hedrick, all of us work broadcasts of Kentucky baseball, among other things. But uh, that's why we sent text messages back and forth all night, every night until dawn. I'm looking at you, Darren.

Yeah.

I mean I saw the first first time I ever saw Ben Cleaver pitch last year as a freshman.

I remember that.

Yeah, he didn't get to pitch much.

And the way the ball comes out of his hand is different. You know, you hear people talk about the ball sounds different off that guy's bat. Yeah, and there's guys like that. And the way the ball comes out of Ben's hand is special. And I knew that he had a really good chance to be something special. I thought, even though people like him around the league and the scouts like me, I think he's the most underrated pitcher in the Southeastern Conference.

Really.

Yes, Wow, his curveball is a classic curveball. Can you kind of tell the listener what it means to have one of those classic twelve to six curveballs.

It's Scott Downs. I mean every time I see him, I think it's Scott Down. Scott had that curveball that Ben has. And Scott didn't throw quite as hard as Ben when he was at Kentucky, but he pitched what thirteen years in the big league.

Yeah.

So if you're left handed and you have that great spin and that great curveball, uh, you got a chance. Those guys can, especially if you could throw the back door breaking ball like Ben does, like Scott Downs did, like Paul Kilgis did. I mean those lefties that can throw it back door successful?

Yes, really, just real quick before we go back to Kentucky baseball, Doug your time the majors, Who was the best curveball you faced? Who had the best curveball that you might recall that you faced? That was quick boy, he was He.

Had a good one. The best slider was probably Steve Carlton and he threw it ever pitch and you knew he was throwing it. Still hard to hit.

Yeah. I always like to talk about the curve ball because you don't see it as that classic ephis pitch. You don't really see that as much anymore.

This was really good. Now you know who had a good one but he couldn't throw it over, Thank goodness, was Nolan Ryan. You know, his ball broke too much. He just couldn't control it.

I tell you somebody else that had a really good one. I don't know what happened to it because he didn't use it that much in the big leagues. There are two guys. Joe Blanton had a really big time curveball. I mean it was a hammer, and then Brandon Webb had a great curveball. But Brandon he developed that sinker, and yeah he didn't. I mean it's he developed that. He didn't really need the curveball.

By the time he was in pro ball he developed the sinker.

Well he had.

He had a good sinker at Kentucky, but it was like a hard two seamer. And when he took a little bit off when he was in Triple A, that thing started moving like nobody's read that.

Wearing a bullpen was one of his coaches said, take a little off. See what happens.

Well, in those days, though, you guys weren't throwing a lot of sliders. It was basically fastball, curveball, change up when Keith and I came up.

Yeah, when I was with Triple A Oklahoma City, our pitching coach was Bert Hooton, who threw the knuckle curve curve, And of course by that time he was a little more of the old not bad attitude, grumpy veteran, let's put it that way, salty. But I was out of the Yeah. I was out at the bullpen one day. We get there, yeah, and I was like, hey, Bert, I've heard so much about your knuckle curve. Would you just throw one and show me. He's like no, I was like, that was.

The Yeah, he did have a good one.

Every time I hear knuckle curve, forgive me. But you know, I played adult league ball for a while and I was the emergency catcher and we had this kid who drug This guy a grown man. He had been in prison somewhere but he dropped literally, uh for passing bad checks. But all of a sudden he's on our team and like you got to catch him, Like, oh no, you know, everybody's on vacation. I go out to the mound. Okay, here's the singles, here's my signal for the knuckle curve.

That's good. Was just dropped st Yeah, yeah.

But if you don't know what's coming and you're the catcher, you know anyway.

Just do like Bob you says, let it stop rolling and took it out.

That's right, coach for our for our listeners out there, if you could, as a as an expert, as a professional, explain the basic and I know you both other guys can as well, but the difference between a slider and a curve, how you throw it, and why they're different.

Well, the easiest way to describe it, I think is you throw the curveball at the top of the ball. You throw it from the top down. With a slider, you throw it like a high three quarter grip.

And I know it's radio, but Darren has a baseball in his hand.

Yeah, and he is. You know, the slider. I always like the off center it just a little bit, yeah, and throw it on the side and you throw it with your fastball motion. And that's why a true slider only breaks about six to eight inches.

It looks very similar to a two seam fastball in some ways, right, except it might have a harder break.

It has it has a the opposite spin. That's it of the of the two seamer.

Uh.

And if you throw it, if you throw it right, I mean, it's it's a devastating pitch because.

Hitters have trouble pick it up.

It looks almost like a fastball coming out of the hand.

But uh, a lot of guys throwing the cutter now, as you said, which is very similar.

Yeah, and the cutter, I mean I've seen really good cutters only break three inches.

Yeah. And I think when you get that hit, you get that ball and it looks like a fastball, and then at the last second, if it moves at all from being a fastball to then it's gonna be tough to hear.

I think the problem that some pitchers have is they try to make their slider too big and they try to make their cutter too big, and when they.

Do, they break too much. Yeah. Yeah, And when they.

Do that, they they lose that tightness, they lose that late break, and it becomes more loopy. And but boy, those guys like Steve Carlton that have the true slider.

Or Mariano Rivera who never wavered from that cutter here. Yeah, you know he's gonna throw it.

Yeah, And I mean Doug can tell you it's so hard to pick up and the time you pick it up, most of the time it's too late.

Yeah. Now, I will say this. I read this statistic.

I don't know, fifteen years ago, the number one ball that was hit out of the ballpark in the major leagues was a hanging slider, no doubt.

Hey, that's what Mitchell Daily hit out. And you know they.

Always say hanging sliders go.

A long way, yeah, because they have velocity and they just sit there. It's like hitting off the tee. But do not throw it in the five.

Oh I thought that was Mitchell Daily song run never on. I've got it somewhere. But uh yeah, I was gonna say, guys, these poor souls at the play, like mister Flynn, have what four hundreds of a second to figure out you.

Know, I was a poor soul before they started throwing all that stuff.

Yeah, but it's just to me what you know, and the pitches I'm watching SEC tournament down then as we all have. And I'm watching guys swinging the pitches in the dirt, but when when they decide to swing, it's belt high.

In the I mean, it's just last night and I saw it was hard.

Tennessee comes in. The guy would come easy and he's throwing easy ninety seven, ninety eight on oi. Wow, it's crazy, and that's that's pretty common. Yeah, I mean, well just look at the Kentucky staff this year when these guys were throwing and throwing pretty decent. They're all in the ninety two to ninety four range. I mean, they didn't have so many guys get above that, but you can see them popping out right around ninety two to ninety four.

You got to you know anymore, though, Doug with a with a ninety two to ninety four, you have to have a secondary and a third pitch.

Oh absolutely, you know.

You have to have a slider, you have to have a curveball and a chain because guys see ninety two to ninety four so often now that they adjust to it. And it's amazing how hitters today adjust to velocity.

But they always have.

They always have.

That's right, all right, we got to step out. We will come back and talk more baseball. Have you ever seen the video? Oh yeah, yeah, it's just just people dancing.

So I'm driving home one night and uh, and it was it was like ten o'clock at night, and there was a there was a Harvest Moon.

Out that's the name of the song, by the way.

Yeah, and I'm watching I'm on Keen Road between Keene and Highway sixty eight, and uh, been away from the house for a while and kind of missing sharing and there's a Harvest Moon and that song comes on and you feel.

Oh.

I had to call her and said, babe, Harvest Moon just came on.

I'm five minutes out.

So many different performers called at a masterpiece, called that song a masterpiece. Honestly, I was never a huge Neil Young fan. I appreciate him, but I was never a huge fan. And I was a big Crosby Sills and Nash fan. And when they added Neil Young, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, I I give him credit on that one. I had heard it once before. I'd never seen that video, and I'm watching the video and I'm like, this is so simple, but that's what the song's all about.

It really shows his Versatiley because it's a little different than and very much in the needle and the damage done.

Yeah, it's a different song.

Was this was a restaurant was situated inside a redwood forest out in California. Really shot that video, so that's kind of yeah.

Uh yeah.

We're talking with the chain Yang with Darren and Keith and Doug. We've been talking to a lot of Kentucky baseball and talked about Doug's glove, which has always been a favorite subject, and the coach has been telling us

I could give you a list of guys that I thought they have the potential and they never panned out. One of them was Greg Bird with the New York Yankees system. And Bird was actually, when he got the Triple A, was actually a better hitter and overall player than Aaron Judge. We actually thought Bird was the prize of that core group wow, with Judge maybe second. And Greg got up to the big leagues, was hitting and

Just think of the guys that have come through UK. I can just right off probably name you ten that I thought guy's got a shot to him.

Yeah.

Good career. Yeah, in the big leagues for a long time. Yeah, it's amazing when with injuries and guys mature a little bit earlier, or they whatever it is.

And lose interest.

Well, a lot of that happens too, you know.

Or they get distracted.

Yeah, they get distracted probably morning, yes, and we don't have to talk about what distracts them, but they do get distracted. We had a Doug and I played with a guy uh in the Reds organization but named Rick Colsey. And when he first signed with the Reds, I had the opportunity to play with him. Center fielder, could run like a deer had a cannon, and they were comparing him to Willie Mays.

Wow he was.

It was like he was a can't miss. He hit over five hundred and rookie ball. Then he gets to Tampa and he's hitting over four hundred. They moved him right up to double A and something happened.

Uh three rivers Canada got yeah, yeah, and that that women were three to seven to one.

Yeah, and the distraction and they had that tract accent and and boy they were they were they It's crazy. That's the only town I ever played in where you come out, you come out of the locker room. And I was married at the time, so I tried to sneak out of there, but there would be fifteen or twenty girls just hanging out of outside the locker room and they just, I don't know. They love baseball players in Canada. But Rick got caught up into that and

Well, our buddy Greg, Yeah, Greg met our friend, my roommate Greg Snata to him.

Then he was a big league all the way.

But he had had all all five tools, yes, and was an unbelievable athlete. He played high school basketball and football and was I remember he came down on the way to spring training one year. We were driving down, we were going to double A maybe or a I can't remember. Stopped off of my uncles and he had a little basketball league. He said, I got you two on the roster to play tonight. Greg standing flat footed, just up, just slamming. You know, he's a great ass.

So. Yeah, and sometimes they get up there and get lazy, that's right. And if they're not superstars, it don't work. Yeah, just it's not sustainable.

You're talking about distractions. And I can think right at the top of my head, there are two different UK football players who were going to get a shot at being really good in the SEC and therefore a chance in the NFL. One was an old lineman, one was a linebacker. And one of them just didn't show up when it came time for summer work and camping all that, Like anybody's seeing so and so the linebacker, and they finally somebody said, well he's got a new girlfriend and

Done, you know, no more football, you know.

And another one was an old lineman who and I'm not trashing women and girlfriends and all that stuff, but this this this woman didn't like football and like this guy a lot and said, you don't need football in your life, you know. And he decided she was right and tried it and realized, no, I liked football, and I want to I think he went over and played for Georgetown for a little while and it just didn't quite work. But he was he was a can't miss guy. Yeah, but yeah, just lost his focus, Dick.

If any of the listeners want to read about guy, how hard it is to make it to the big league and how hard it is to stay in the big leagues once you get to the big leagues. There's there's a former pro player by the name of Dirk Hayhurst and he's written a book called Out of My League. He's written three or four books. He's a good writer,

And it's even more difficult now. I would think when you come up as a rookie back when we did, and you're making sixteen thousand dollars a year and you're surrounded by some quality players. Now you come up in the big leagues and you're making seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, and you've got so many things that got you there, like we'll pay for you to come and get you in shape, we'll pay for your room,

And you can read about guys like that, and if one of them was a pitcher who was pitching the next night, you got the bed, he got the bed.

Tr that's true, that is that's all true.

Yeah, I think I can share this story now the Statute of limitations. But when we were when John Sadak and I were with the Scranton team, the Yankees Triple A affiliate with the Pictures, some pictures would go up and then they'd come back and they would all tell us that throughout their whole career, if things were kind of iffying and inning, they could look over in the dugout and the pitching coach kind of clap, you know,

Well, there's a lot of that, and there's something to be said for that too, because it doesn't matter what anybody tells you. If it doesn't a light doesn't go on in your own mind, you're not gonna get it in any so. But when I look back, you know the guys that we came up, and you're thinking, why did he make it? Why did he not make it? How did that happen? Because I know for a fact, when I left Kentu and I went to this tryout camp, the furthest thing in my mind was going away to

So yeah, and then you know, guys like me and Doug from Kentucky. You know, we show up in camp and there's guys from Miami and LA Yeah, and Dallas and Puerto.

Rico and private coaches.

Yeah, and these guys are really good and they had our good and they have the confidence and that you know that that uh, that arrogance the way they carry them.

Did you ever have that? Because I never did, and even to today, I don't. I never had that. There was an inter confidence, but I never had that cocky confidence that the good players really have.

I never had it never.

I mean, and there's still time.

Yeah, I get it when I'm on the show, but broadcast food.

When I competed, when I was out there and they brought me in the ninth inning and there's two men on base, you had to have it, yeah, and you just you just get consumed with competing. But in terms of hanging out in the dugout in the locker room, I never had that.

See, and I can still be in all being on the like being on first and the first baseman's really start on. I'm thinking, I don't know how this happened, but it's really cool. Instead of saying, you know, where am I going next? Yeah? You know, you start looking around and and it's just.

Really we're thinking asking for an autograph. We got to step out, hold that dog, mister Hendrick, and we will come back and talk more of baseball. This was the song that elevated George Harrison as a songwriter in the eyes of the experts and the critics and all that. With Lennon and McCartney, he was the youngest Beatle and you know, those two guys were writing a hit after hit, and he kind of caught up with this song. The other one was this song was written while the Beatles

Yeah, I mean, and and that's, in my opinion, the best album of all time in popular music?

Is that right?

In my opinion, it's just beautiful and and and the crazy thing it's it's it was a bunch of songs they sort of threw together, yes, because like you said, they were distracted. They were getting a lot of done and close to the end. Yeah, and they just put all these songs together that were partially finished.

And you know, there's somebody out there listening now, going, what's an album?

That's right when you download more than one song and then the song title itself. They were sitting around they had some goofy potentials and Paul McCartney said, of course the studios on Abby Road, and they just said the street sign right out there says Abbey Road. Let's just

So if we walked across the street, Coach, would you be the one barefoot? Yes? Probably Coach Madison's dead. People been saying that long.

Wow.

He talked about that too. He was wearing sandals or something and he just did just didn't feel good and his feast kicked them off, and I'm gonna go barefoot.

So anyhow, that's what the fake McCartney says.

Yeah, the real one's hanging out with Elvis and JFK.

That's right, all right, You were.

Gonna make a point there. Do you remember what it was before.

The Yeah, it was we were talking about guys that didn't make it and how hard it was to be in the big leagues. And I think Doug had referenced something about, you know, being around some guys that make you just go kind of wow. And I remember Steve cars Or pitching coach with the Carolina Mudcats. He was a reliever for the New York Yankees, got traded to the Braves and became a closer there during their big

Did you have moments like that in a red clubhouse? You must have, yep.

And I had moments out of the Red clubhouse like that when we went to Bob Gibson golf tournament one time, who, as you know, became good friends, came to our tournament. So we get there and where I walk in and Bob says, do you know everybody here? And I looked at limb Swan was sitting there. Dude, he says, this is Sandy Kofax. He ay, Reggie Jackson. Well, we'd met a long time ago, and all of a sudden, I'm sitting there and my wife looks up and she went, what's wrong with this?

As only OGA can say?

Right, But I still, you know, because I was a fan of the game first, and I want to be a fan again so bad if they would quit screwing it up in so many ways. But because the game was so good, and it was so good to me, And when you sit here and talk about it, I mean at the fourteen years of my life in pro baseball, just it changed.

What happened to it?

In your opinion to the game, yes, I think the lack of respect for the game itself, to me, is the biggest issue in it now if and it's happening not just to baseball, it's the law of the sports too. Like the live golf tour that they started. Everybody says, well, I mean, how do you tell a guy you can't go over there, and then we're gonna pay one hundred

In that's right.

Uh, it's that's to me, is not right if they wanted to do it right. What they should have done is in the last month when they saw Pete really struggling and he was is they said, guys, this is not good. We need to get this done now, just so Pete knows.

And uh or you know if indeed, and you and I have talked about this. Eight months before he died, he wrote a letter absolutely apologizing, admitting to everything.

And you know, I've changed my mind on that too, because when it first happened, he broke a rule. And you're right, I'm saying, but.

I disagree respectfully with why you changed your mind. You did because baseball is taking sponsorship money from gamblings.

Absolutely they are.

But to me, that and you and I have talked about this on the air before, that should have nothing to do with it. Because when I go to a game and you know, if Doug Flynn boots a ground ball, I need to know that there's a you know, they're doing everything they can to see to it that he didn't boot the ground ball because he got money they gave and they look people have been gambling on sports since Cavin were throwing rocks, you know.

But but to me, the way it was done by Pro Baseball makes it look very hypocritical. It does, and and I hate that. Now it's going to be interesting to see what happens with his family and with all the stuff that's gonna come because it's what three years down the road.

But let me throw this out there. And Keith was a pro athlete, and Darren you worked in pro ball. To Doug's point, yeah, they they fumbled this, there's no question, but what it did when Darren you may have read a lot of this stuff. It prompted quite the discussion online on the air. And I read a column where I think it was The Athletic when and interviewed twelve different Hall of famers. Did you see this?

Players?

I didn't read it, players, front office. You know, various walks of baseball should Pete go in?

Now?

And he was split down the middle, including in some of the athletes were adamant, still saying, no, is this former Hall of Famers current Hall of Famers fairs? I mean, yeah, yeah, Maner, Tony LaRussa, Pat Gillick.

What Larusa say.

I think he said I'm on the fence about it or something.

Anyway, I'll just tell you that right now.

I wasn't going to go that far, but I was just sitting there thinking about the fact that Larusa has his own demons, thank.

You, Yeah, exactly. And there will be a lot of people that will start doing the comparison now because whether they're not let me in because I use steroids, or I had a.

Drug issue or and here that's the crux of it for me. If you're not going to let Pete in, then stop the discussion of the steroid guys, because they cheated. They flat cheated. He bet on the game, and he's admitted he bet on them. As these guys and Tony Kemp does not have a National League Most Valuable Player Award. If Ryan Bron hadn't taken steroids with the Milwaukee Brewers,

How many position players were basically forced out of the game by pitchers, sorry, coach, pitchers who were on steroids.

Yep, you know, or they powered them, or they couldn't hit the fifty home runs because they weren't on it.

That's right, right, And and see back to what we were talking about, the hypocrisy. You can't tell me that Major League Baseball didn't know that when Sosa and McGuire were going through that they were doing.

Come on, they would look at him. Yeah, it was it was Baseball was coming back. If people were.

Saved it though, I think that that year got people to stay around the game. Cal Ripken going for that street have saved the game that one year as well. And so Baseball, whatever it took to save it, they were going to do it regardless of what going on.

Hey, Mark McGuire did interviews in front of his locker with a big tub of creatine over his shoulder. He didn't try to hide it, but then he fumbled it when he went and sat in front of Congress, and she just said, yeah, I did it.

It was legal, Like Andy Pettit. Andy Pettitt said, yeah.

Thank you, he did it right, but you know he McGuire and so said. They fumbled that another.

Several levels, several levels, several of them, but they were the most high profile. They put some guys in there that and we all know used. There's some guys in the hall right now that you talk to anybody throughout the game they used, and they know they use. But they kept it quiet on the download. They didn't strut it. They didn't go out and I mean, how you miss McGuire. I mean, he's six y five and wait two seventy I guess.

Just to wrap up, my point is, if you're gonna put the steroid guys in, Pete's got to go in. And I'm fine if you want to argue, well, if Pete goes in, the steroid guys go in. My point is it's a part of the history of the sport and there needs to be something said about it.

Couldn't Darren, couldn't he couldn't they put in and just say he's in the Hall of Fame and then at the bottom of his plaqusay make it a part of his singer, part of his story.

Steroid wing.

Yeah, all right, all right, we got to step out. Only twenty five percent of us here have performed on stage with a group like the Yolks.

That's true.

Wa performs kind of a loose term.

Well, you could have been juggling or doing hand puppets.

Might as well as him. Actually, yeah, we saw him.

What we had a thrill.

They had to be a thrill get up down stage with him.

Yeah, this is like nineteen eighty so they were they were hot, boy, I mean, they were really good.

I shared this with Darren on the radio. They always asked me to sing at church. But it's on as it's on a hill far away. That's a good hymn. It's a very good Yo you and Max. They're remarkable.

Uh. And the fact they're moving on. There's three of them, there are eighty years of age right now. They got a twenty eight year old singer Joe's part and so this is gonna be the farewell. They're just they're really Last year we went up and saw them at State Fair and I went up with one of the Gatling boys and they were wonderful. They had lost sixteen members of their little family of friends in one year. Yeah, and so they if you.

Google them, go to wiki and look up and it tells you the current members, but then past members it's like thirty something. Yeah, because at one point I didn't know this. There were more of an eight piece.

Well they were a gospel group too.

Well, they were gospel. They were popped once they finally settled on a country.

You know what their success They used to tell me, he said, when you joined them, I told them how good they really were? They said, the success He said, we got a gospel quartet with a rock and roll band. That's right. Yeah, and that's exactly what they had.

And so and Elvira put him on the big map. Yeah, exactly.

Well, you know they're not the diginal Oakreage Boys, that's true. The original Oakreage Boys were out of Oakreage, Tennessee. That's why they had the name. Yeah, and they were completely gospel too, and then they passed the name on to the current Well know.

That, see, folks, that's why you tune in the chain gang.

Right, that's right, we're talking to this Tennessee boy. Now he got to pretty good handle.

On its true. That's very true. Uh, we've been kind of mixing music in baseball, and uh we were talking about, uh the peed row. It is kind of the ped Rose decision, but shoreless Joe Jackson as well, though I've told you more than once he never should have been banned anyway. But I'm going to pull this back to our original discussion about gloves. Eight minut Out was such a great movie. I hope you all saw that, Yes, but I got a story about that one. Remember well, were you were?

You were you?

You weren't quite active with the Reds back then. What anyway, real quickly remember the scenes from the games in the movie. At the end of an inning, the players would run off the field and their gloves. Can you imagine?

Yeah, So I get this call one day and it says, is this mister Flynn. Yes it is mister Flynn. We appreciate you try and sending in your bye bye bye blah, but we just don't think you're right for the movie. And I said, uh, okay, what movie. I don't have any idea. So I go home and I'm telling old and I said, Honey, I get this weird call day. She went, oh, I sent your baseball card in to these people because they were looking for extras. I said, well, they called it day and said.

Set the wrong car, and you have more than one car.

And it's about tiger carts. You sent my very last car. And they said that's not what they were looking for. And I went, how about that.

That's too bad.

One of Phil Mankowski was in one of them. Might have been the natural Phil play. I played with him in Detroit a little bit. Yeah, and uh, he was in that movie and they used a lot of his stuff. So and he said he had a blast.

Of filmed at the Old Rock in Buffalo, New York.

Yes, sir, well, I was looking for it earlier, and I think I've got it. Let me see here. How about this.

Here's a swinging the tribe today. Plaf Thatch goes Nixon looking up.

Daily went Daily wins it, Daily wins it.

Kentucky defeats in c State five to four on a walk off home run five Mitchell.

Daily happier times when the Wildcats won their first and only win in the College Award Series at Omaha with the walk off home run that followed the ninth inning home run. Man, you guys, we're all over that.

You know, Mitch Daily should be one of those guys like don't I don't know who all, but there's a ton of them. You should never have to buy a meal.

One, that's right.

Or Ryan Nicholson as well, because his home running the ninth.

That's right, those guys.

I mean I hit three home runs at game right, Nolan?

Yeah, no, four, All five runs were off a home runn.

Is that right?

You remember Nolan Richardson, don't you? I mean, oh yeah, Nolan McCarthy.

Oh, Nolan McCarthy, yeah, two game in the seventh, the two, and he struck him out, but the ball got away from Webber McCarthy the third, there's nobody at cover of the play. It's a foot rice eight times across safe. Nobody covered home for orget State. McCarthy scores from second as Kraft Smith arrives at first. What's a three to two Kentucky lead.

What a heads up play by McCarthy. The pitcher was lackadaisical about covering home, and McCarthy never slowed down. He was barely around third base, made a beautiful slide well ahead of the throw.

Im dropping coach.

Now you see why can't I get that kind of expert analysis in the TV booth it's only over in the radio. But now kidding, Doug and I we were in that booth, but we're in the stadium. In the stadium, Yeah, we didn't have a chance to call him because the big boys were calling it. But uh wow, those were great And who knows, maybe it happens again, maybe they get hot next week. But those names that everybody heard will bring us back as this is our last segment

Times, but they were they were baseball players.

Yeah, he's got a whole lot of sizzle.

They were there.

I mean you look at Nolan and uh and Walt Smith, Grant Smith great.

I mean, these guys were ball players. They they had a great baseball i Q. I thought, yes, I mean they if something need to be done, we'll get it done. Might look we're gonna get it done because they're gonna That's not to.

Say that this team doesn't have it every I think there's just more last year.

Yeah, there was a determination. I mean Grant Smith said it, I need to make omaha like I need to breathe or like I need to I mean, that was that whole team last year. It was just a different group and they were experienced, they were older. They knew what needed to be done and went out and did it.

Yeah. I mean they got the pits when they needed to, get the hit when they needed and they went on the field. It got to the point where at the end they're gonna win.

And the name we haven't brought up yet was you had a guy in left field who had come from a small college Charleston Southern, and put together a first round draft picks season and Ryan Walshmith now as bad went to sleep a little lateness in the year, but he's easy having a big time in the minors and how many times did he come through offensively ended?

Yeah, he was just the key.

He was the key, he really was. They put him in that leadoff.

Remember he blew his knee and any of us would have taken a year to come back, and he said, I'll be ready.

He was two strikes. He became a really good two strike in. I mean, you seem he'd go up there looking for a pitch and he'd hack at it. He didn't get it, but man, when he got two strikes, it was just.

And then he got a Mason Moore and guys like that, you know, that rotation, and they were a healthy coach. Maybe not all year, but by the end of the year. Nick pointed this out, each of the last two years teams have won regionals. By the end of the season, everybody was healthy.

Yeah, I think it.

Johnny Humble too, I mean, oh yeah, what happened to him? And in Columbia South Carolina and not many pitchers survived that.

Yeah, and even went back to back homers.

Yeah, and I'm going, wow, how do you overcome that? I mean, it's just a tough thing.

Yeah, that's right. They had a two run lead, didn't it. Yeah, they go back to back to back.

Yeah, and it took a while, but man, he came on strong and showed some real courage and confidence.

Are you feeling good they're going to be in the tournament?

Yeah? I do. As we sit here today, I feel like they're going to be in unless it gets really wild with the bubble this weekend. I just don't think the bubble is strong. And you look at Kentucky's resume. They beat Louisville, it was a series win at Tennessee, got a series win at A and M. Swept Oklahoma, And to me, sweeping Oklahoma in a three game weekend series is a lot better than winning one game on a neutral site in the conference tournament because those games are not weighted the same.

But here's the thing, Darren, I've been through this so many times. They can find a way to let you in, they can find a way to keep you out.

I'm not thinking like that though. He's living. Yeah.

Yeah, I was one of the new era. I was one of the people that had to come over and interview him, say what happened? And I don't know.

Yeah, you know, there's the bubble can make you sweat, that's for sure.

I really wish though, and if they don't get in, it's going to be hard to say, well, you know, we got screwed or something, because the way they played the last little bit. I mean, look at how many gate what was the final and thirty conference games? How many they had to lead in?

Twenty seven of them, twenty eight of thirty one if you want to count the essay.

Twenty eight to thirty one.

I had a lead.

They had a lead, that's right.

Yeah, but those were killer losses at Vandy oh manah.

Oh, Look, I hate when I hear somebody say they melted down. I'm like, they didn't melt it out. Fandy went and hit home runs Like there's nothing you can do with that. Here, the pill that sign hittinst McCoy was not a bad pitch. It was out. It was meant to be in the dirt, but it was out, and that kid just reached down there and sent it the other way.

See, that doesn't bother me. When when you hit a home run. What bothers me is you take a three run lead out and you walk the first gown for it.

That's what drives me. That's always how it starts.

Yeah, and when we saw that a lot. How many times this year did you see Kentucky take a lead only to give it up in the very next inning, half of the inning. And so those are things that didn't happen last year, right, and uh, it's just yeah, it's you know, I mean, gosh, we all want them to win because how much fun and plus from a selfie standpoint of view, broadcasting winning baseball is much more fun and what.

That did for the community last year.

And years they come out too.

Absolutely. Yeah, well, uh, as always, we are out of time so quickly thanks to the change.

I don't want to go.

Well, you can stay here and do a little laundry.

Gotta go home, but you got to get out of here.

That's gonna do it for tonight. A quick thank you to my buddies Doug Flynn, Darren Hedrick and Keith Madison. We send text messages to each other all night long, every night, the text chain that Keith's wife Sharon has dubbed the chain Gang. So every now and then we drag him into the garage. We talk baseball, we talk music, and again, if you're listening via the podcast, we're sorry, but copyright rules mean we cannot play the music that we're talking about, but we will if you missed it.

Je, gosh, you lolled get.

The ball around the enemy. You lolled the gag you right down the first you lily hear it out of their dugout. Did you know what that makes you? Burry tact show anything then.

To take.

Stomi in contorting to theos