Welcome to the Big Bluin Sider. Dick Gabriel with you Thursday edition of our show, and it is one day closer to the Kentucky Derby. Tonight, this will be an hour number two. Ellis Star the Uber Capper, will join us and tell us how to make a little bit of money on the Derby and the Oaks. I have had success betting with Ellis, so pay close attention, kids, take some notes and you could have You're gonna enjoy I know Derby and Oaks weekend, but it's always more fun,
right if you can cash. So Ellis will be with us coming up in hour number two. At the bottom of this hour Tom Leech, Voice of the Wildcats. We'll talk Derby with Tom as well, but we will also talk about the late Larry Johnson, the Kentucky point guard from Joby Hall's really good teams back in the seventies
who passed away. This week, we'll also hear from a couple of the Kentucky Derby trainers, two of the favorites that are coming in Journalism and Sandman, so we'll hear their thoughts on their horses coming into the week, and things have changed so much through the years, constantly evolving. But back in the day, and I mean way back, like in the eighties when I first started covering the
Kentucky Derby, this was the day. This was the morning Thursday that we would just kind of make our way over to the racing office and get the post positions and the odds. That was it. We would all go over, they'd hand them out, Okay, thank you very much. Well, what happened was in the early eighties there was a situation where there were I think twenty three horses trying to draw in and there was a horse that was left out one year and tried to sue to get
back into the race. The whole thing ended up in court in downtown Louisville Derby week and then a horse scratched, so they dropped the lawsuit and all this. So everybody who went to get post positions, because it was a big story, crammed their way into that office and it became such a big deal that Churchill Downs changed the format and then they had this public gathering to announce post positions, and then that became so popular, so the
next thing, you know, they moved it around. It's on live TV, and it was this past Saturday on live television. So that's how much the Derby has changed through the years that instead of Thursday, you know what, two and a half days prior to the race, which is generally when every race is set up with odds and post positions. Well, now of Kentucky Derby, they set the odds and post position a week out. So I don't know, it just
gets bigger and bigger. But we'll talk about that. But we got to talk about Mark Pope and John Rostein. The podcast that Rostein produced and aired and it's on YouTube if you want to go back and watch and listen to the whole thing if you haven't already. The internet has been swamped with comments and clips and we're going to share some with you now. Rostein was on with Tom Leachs this morning. Been trying to get him on my show. He's been so busy that he's not
been able to accommodate me. He was able to jump on with Tom a little bit first thing this morning, but he had a great interview I thought, with Pope and Mark of course as always so excited. And Rostein began his podcast by just basically doing a monologue for about twenty minutes, but one of the things he touched on was how, yes, the NIL and the portal have kind of turned sports upside down, there's no question, but he basically told the same line that most of us have.
I think you probably have too if you're a college sports fan, in that NIL has really really jumbled college athletics. But it's not necessarily a bad thing, because it's only fair now that the players get to share and the riches, and yes, some of these numbers are off the charts, and the way the pendulum swings in sports, it'll swing back the other way. But what is really turn this
thing upside down and inside out is the portal. And I do think everybody agrees, probably with the exception of a handful of players, that you ought to be allowed to transfer once then after that you got to sit out of here. The people who would disagree are perhaps coaches who are welcoming a player they might need who's already been at three schools, and the coach is willing
to overlook whatever problems the kid might have had. And of course the players who are bouncing from school to school, the school sometimes taking money with them without even playing, but oftentimes usually trying to find a spot where they'll better fit in because they're not patient at all. So that in mind. One of Rostein's first questions de Mark Pope was about being a head coach in today's climate.
In some ways, the path forward continues to get murkier and murkier, And so I think where we are is I think we're getting bolder and boulder as we push forward.
Uh, it's you see, you.
See all these changes. It's just this field that's ripe full of opportunity and we're trying to steize on it every single moment. What is it like to be a head coach in this climate? It is the great it is. I love it actually because it tests you in every way. It challenges you every way.
Uh.
You know, you're you're.
Taking in data and information at such an amazing clip and you have to model so many different possible scenarios. You know, as we as we kind of see here waiting on this settlement to kind of get some verdict on the settlement, you could see the trajectory of college athletics and college basketball going in a dozen different directions.
You kind of got to model out all of those in scenarios that fit your program in your university, and so the challenge involved in that is never ending, and it's like I said, it's full of opportunity.
Now as head coaches go, Mark Pope is on the younger side, of course, the same profession that has seeing guys like Jay Wright and Nick Saban, guys who have won their championships, done their work. They've stepped away Roy Williams, who again had had a great career and a little bit older than Mark Pope. But Mark excited about the opportunities first of all to be at Kentucky. Secondly to take advantage of information, the data he likes, and build
a team. He's got a good recruiting class coming in, he's got a good portal group coming in, and he's got talented second year guys. You should listen to the podcast to get the full rundown on what he has to say about the guys coming back, Brandon Garrison, if take o Way, Trent Noah. But he is excited and it's to me it's an interesting reason he's so excited about his second year guys.
Well, like you said, I think it's a key at being success and there's nothing like getting older with your own.
Guys, right.
And the second thing is my guys Traditionally, my guy's second year take a massive leap because you know, we're such a rebased offense and in parts defense, where our guys are the deciders on the floor, they're not looking over at me. We coach them to be capable of making decisions on the court, so they spend very little time looking over me. We coach them to coach each
other and communicate with each other. And so with a year under your belt, now now you're coming in not to learn the game or do the game, but you come in actually starting to play the game and trick up the game and use all these actions to manipulate him in creative ways. And that's where the game gets incredibly fun. So these second year guys going to be really key for.
Us, especially if he gets oh way back. I suspect he will, and as Mark said, O take away, there's a pretty good chance he'll be the preseason SEC Player of the Year coming back. But he's going to find out from the league at the very least what he needs to do to improve his game, get himself ready for the draft. And again, look at Antonio Reeves, look what it did for him. He came back almost like a different player, building on what he could do well
and then getting better. Improved his handle, improved his defense, improved his ability to drive and score instead of just standing out there shooting three pointers, we could do the same thing. Rosstein basically had Mark go down the entire roster, and Pope was not shy about saying that, yeah, this Kentucky team will be capable if things break right, of winning a national championship.
We can get it done.
Now, there's a lot of teams that can get it done. But if we do this right with the right guys, you know, we can get this done. And that's our job. That's what we're supposed to do. That's the standard here and nothing less as acceptable.
But in terms of the rotation, how many guys do you think you're gonna be able to play this?
I'd like to play them all.
So I have twelve guys right now. So I have twelve guys that come help us. We're actually going to try and round out this roster. I'm actually scouring the planet right now for guys that would fit in as maybe a red shirt guy that would kill it in practice, or maybe a last year of your career, guy that wants to come here and put on this one of one jersey and be a part of this. So we
need to had a couple more pieces. But right now we have our we have our roster that's gonna that's gonna own the minace on this floor, and we have all the pieces.
I hope people set up and took notice when he said I'd like to play them all and you know you can't do that, but you can to a degree. But it was interesting to me how people got really I don't know, antsy about the way Pope subbed. And there were times when he made mistakes and admitted to it, but for the most part we've talked about it here
on the show. He will not sub the way a a lot of people expected him to and b the way a lot of other coaches do, because as he pointed out, and he got really specific, because more people were actually calling and gently criticizing on his show the way he subbed. But as he pointed out, we try to keep people fresh. I'm paraphrasing, but he said, we work so hard offensively, not just on defense, but offensively. We don't want people tiring and breaking down at the
worst times. So they might say, you know what, this is my comment, they might sub a little earlier than they might want. Pope might not. They Pope does it and risk you know, missing a minute or two of productivity. So you've got people later in the game, and he's going to keep doing that, so you will not see him do what Caliperi and a lot of other coaches do, and that's whittle it down to eight. And again, cali
Peri did that because John woodn't suggested it. But Mark Pope coaches a different style than wouldn't at Caliperi than a lot of guys. So don't expect to see a quote unquote substitution pattern beyond the very basics for Mark quote. People need to lose that terminology substitution pattern. Why do you want that? Because if you can recognize the pattern, so can the other guys. I say, you sub the way the game demands, the way opposing personnel demands. That's
how you want to guy a sub. And if you can't figure it out, that's because you haven't been at practice, you haven't taken apart the game plan, you haven't done the scout. We can all sit back and see how it works. But if you're trying to coach along and say thereselfing, man, I put this guy in right now. Remember, Mark Pope is all about data. I don't have it, You don't have it, and he's collecting data while the
game's going on. So just be paid. And if it doesn't work, we'll ask him about it after the game and he'll describe why. Oh and by the way, Rosstein asked Pope about the schedule, and Pope said their son. He basically said, there's something going on, but he couldn't talk about it. What it probably was was the fact that Kentucky will place Saint John's in the CBS Sports Classic. The Red Storm will replace UCLA in the annual event, So Mark Pope versus Rick Bettino in the CBS Sports Classic.
That's according to the Saint John's podcaster David Delroy, Red Storm taking over for UCLA. On the other side, North Carolina and Ohio State up next. Derby doings. Bottom of the Hour Tom Leach on six thirty WLAP Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. Coming up to Bottom of the Hour, Tom Leech to talk Kentucky Derby and we'll talk about the late Larry Johnson, the UK point guard who passed away this week. Of course, a little bit later on Elis Star the uber Capper, we'll talk with
us about the Oaks and the Kentucky Derby. I said it my horse is Journalism. Kind of picked him, not just because of the name, but that works out well. But I kind of liked him maybe two months ago, a little late getting in on the Derby picture this year, but I liked Journalism won the San Felipe Stakes and had been off for you know, three or four months, and then came back and was huge in the Santa Anita.
Derby worked his way through trouble and won that race in a race that they didn't really need to win, but he wasn't going to be denied. So Mike McCarthy, Michael McCarthy is the trainer, and he told horse Racing Nation about how impressed he was by the way the horse came back in the San Felipe, and then of course later added the Santa Anita.
I thought he would run very well.
That was a little bit it's a little bit more than I expected, but very pleased with forb.
When a horse runs that big and March first, do you figure, you know, feel like you've got a.
Plan on it, not push him too much.
I think it is what it is. You know, he'd had it coming off of a bit of it.
I think it was a nine or ted week layoff, something like that as a fresh horse had run out of his bide.
Came back into Sanity to Derby.
And you know, I'm not gonna say duplicated that performance by that here had a fair respectable race.
There's in tense moments in Sanity Derby and Roberto got kind of stuck in a five horse field there Or was that a concern for you at all?
Or yeah, you know you could kind of see something like this get ready to brew about.
The half mile pole. Very happy that happened.
Three furlogs from rather than a quarter mile, for quite a bit of different outcome.
There was a while there were it seemed like the best contenders were coming out of California, and I wondered, well, are they fit? Are they more fit and horses back here? But the answer was no. It's just that some of the trainers who favored the California tracks, like Wayne Lucas, like Bob Baffort, had better horses than other people. But then good horses come out of Florida, good horses come
through Arkansas. For a while, yer the Arkansas Derby was considered eh, you know, yeah, they get some horses there, but suddenly really good horses started coming through. Of late, we haven't seen many great ones coming or even good ones contenders through New York. Orb did for Shug McGahee, but you know, of course Secretariat came from the Wood, but the Wood Memorial now is a grade too, so you know it's cyclical. A great Derby horse could come
from anywhere. Mine that Bird came through New Mexico. So another strong contender is Sandman. Mark Cassie trains Sandman and talked to FanDuel TV about the fact that one of the real pluses for this horse, and I really like this is that this cult raced at two anymore. It seems like you've seen trainers kind of gamble and for whatever reason skip the two year old campaign, whether it's
injury or lack of development. But Cassie really maintains that Sandman is the cult that he is today because of the hard knocks he took at age two.
You know, we ran him at two and we got a lot of starts, and it's something that I really believe in. I think that when the going gets tough, and it's going to get tough, that he's going to have the experience over a lot of horses, and he's developed. And if you've followed my career very far, that is I'm kind of a guy that doesn't worries so much about winning first and second time out and letting him kind of come along.
In case you're wondering Citizen Bull won the Juvenile, you might know that already and he's in the Derby field. But gone of the days it seems that the two year old champion, basically the Breeders Cup Juvenile winner is looked upon as the Derby favorite. It's going to be journalism. Of course, a Citizen Bull could jump up and do some damage. But the last cult to win the juvenile then when the Derby was Nyquist in twenty sixteen, Street Sense did it as well in twenty oh six for
Todd Pletcher. A couple of other notes before we hit the break, I told you yesterday about John Elway's agent former agent falling out of a golf cart basically driven by Elway at an event in California, suffered late threatening injuries, blowed over the head, and he died yesterday, So the incident is under investigation. Atlanta Falcons have been fined by the NFL a quarter of a million dollars. Teams defensive coordinator fined one hundred thousand. The DC's son prank called
Shador Sanders during the draft. That was a bit of ugliness. And I was looking for an update on Georgia Aymore. Of course, now a Washington Mystics guard blew her acl in a workout three days prior to the first exhibition game, but the team has said there is no timeline yet for her return. So fingers crossed for Georgia Amore. What a terrible, terrible tough break up. Next, Tom Leach, the Voice of the Cats on six thirty WLAP, Welcome back
to the Big Blue Insider. Coming up this Saturday, of course, is the run for the Roses. Friday, it's the run for the Lilies. But before we talk with Tom leachs the voice of the Wildcats, about that and some UK related things. Tom, you and I were talking yesterday about the fact that we lost Larry Johnson, a great player from Joe Hall's first teams. And I've got a few years on you. I was in school with Larry, but you were, of course a fan grow up. You and
your dad came to a lot of games. What do you remember about Larry Johnson?
First thing I remember is those great Union County teams that he was on. When I would follow the Sweet sixteen, I wasn't attending often then, but you know, would follow it and then on Saturday get the semi finals to finals the TV. So I was just you know, followed, just as a basketball fan, eat up with the state tournament, you know, when it would roll around. And so Union County had that great run with Larry and Freddie Collen
and Dwayne Casey. Outstanding team. So I remember from that and then the two memories that popped in my mind when you say Larry Johnson. Number one is the seventy seven team that I know. Goose says this, and I've had so many other people say it to me over the years. Was as good as the seventy eight championships team.
Yep.
And they just got four cornered by John Custer in North Carolina. They got behind and couldn't catch him. The four corners up in College Park, and you know, the next year, Larry had finished his eligibility and Kyle was waiting in the wings as a transfer, and so he stepped in and they won the title that they could have easily gone back to back. I think had they.
Been able to get past.
North Carolina and then I would have likely denied the world the Al McGuire championship story. And like Pratt and Lee Rose and UNC, Charlotte might have spoiled their party. Of course they've got to spoiled by Marquette anyway. But anyway, they would have been in the final four and I think it would have had a great chance to win it. Anyway, long winded story. The other memory I have it popped in mind for Larry Johnson was the seventy six team.
Wasn't it one of the best teams, But it was just as a fan, a team I really remember very fondly because they were struggling. They were ten and ten and in those days, I think only the top two went to the NCUBA Tournament out of the league, and they weren't going to be in the nc DOUBLEA tournament. But they got hot at the end of the year and you knew that if they lost, they probably had no shot of getting an n I T invitation when
that's still meant much more than it does now. But they kept winning and they got the n T bid and then he drives the length of the floor. I want to say it was against maybe Niagara Providence or Kansas State Providence. Okay, you know they won that one on a buzzer beater and went on to win the title with Reggie Warford having a great game. But as that memory popped into my head too when you mentioned.
This past, you know what, I was up there for that Providence game, and yeah, that's the game that actually put them into the championship game. And for whatever reason, you know, you don't remember where you sat at Madison Square Garden, the newer one for the game this year. That's where my seat was a sign up there and I had been up like in what they call the hockey press box, but I was down on the floor prior to the game, and I remember why, But there was it was a Saturday, I want to say, it
felt like Saturday morning or early Saturday afternoon. Weren't many reporters there, and there was a seat right next to the official scorer at the press table, and I looked down and somebody goes, you know, go ahead and sit down there, you can sit whatever. I wound up sitting near the official scores for that game court side, and when Larry Johnson made that shot it was against Dave
Gavitt's Providence team. Gavitt quickly came to the table wanting to ask the alternate official was it actually a buzzer beater? And I remember if ref came over, it wasn't a big deal. Wasn't any big review. Yeah, they just said was it good? Yeah, that was good. Okay, game over and that was it. But I remember exactly Larry took
the inbound pass and turned. I think he took it from Reggie Warford and raced up the floor and he later told us he went in from the left side and he was in pressure, under pressure, and he said I saw a flash of orange, so he knew he was, you know, under the rim, and just put it up off the glass and that was it. And then I think he had another big bucket in the in the championship game down the stretch. So I love watching him play. He was so much fun, wasn't he.
Oh yeah, great defenders and a perfectly built to be a good defender. Man strong and could spread out and get low at low center of gravity. They talk about with nose guards in football, and he was just a bear to try to get past them. For opposing voint guards.
Yeah, he had a shot at the NBA, I want to say, with the Buffalo Braves. In fact, he played with him for a year out of college. Then he went to Japan and his memory serves he was like the MVP of the biggest and best Japanese league three times, and somebody told me that he was one of the most popular players in the history of Japanese basketball. I believe he married a young lady from Japan and he
played for the Panasonic team. As you know they they worked air quotes for companies over there, like Sony, Panasonic, whatever. And when he retired from basketball, he moved back to the States and worked for Panasonic for a long time. So he did have a really nice pro career. And I was glad to see you moved back to Kentucky. And I don't know if you had a chance to talk to him, but I know we did a couple of times, and man and that smile just went on forever, didn't it.
Yeah, fun teams to think back about now. And you know he was on the five team that made it to the championship game. He was coming off the band for then.
Perfect Joe All player, wasn't he?
Yeah? Exactly right?
Yeah, and Joe, as you said, got some great players out of western Kentucky. Tom Leach is the voice of the Wildcats. We'll come back and talk about the Kentucky Derby upcoming in just a minute here on the Big moon Side or six thirty wlap welcome back. We're talking with Tom Leachy is the voice of the Wildcats. Of course you hear him on this radio station on the
Leech Repoard every morning. But if you're a Keenland fan, you see his work on the website, you hear his picks and you keep up with the horses through Tom. And if so, how was your spring meet? By the way, did you did you have a good one?
Yeah? Actually I've probably finished a little bit ahead and I do the long shot pick for the today at Queenland Show. And you know, kind of like we'll get into this with the Derby Andy byer. Once I heard him in an interview. Say you're obligated if you're cover racing, you're obligated to make a pick Derby. Yeah, and so I think that's true. But you know what I do at Queenlan, we make there's a group of us to make picks every day, and then I also do that
long shot pick with the TV show. And there's not a great long shot every day, but you're trying to just come up with, you know, the best possible one you could find. But I had one that paid forty five dollars towards the end of the meat, yes.
And then had another.
One unfortunately it was fifteen or ten to one that got bet down in half. But anyway, he'd give out a forty five dollars horse. You can live off that for all.
Man, buddy of mine, bet that horse because of you took him across the board. So oh good, Yeah, yeah, you gotta love it.
I'm actually that was one I the reason part of reason I had a winning spring meet is I've rumbered to bet the horse too. That was one I liked more than some others. And thank goodness, he had a hair coming out of his nose that they got to the wire first of it.
Yeah, all right, well give me your your pick for as we say, for the feature on Saturday, for the Derby.
Yeah, it's like I said the buyer comment about you know, you're obligated to make a pick in the Derby, but you may not always have as strong an opinion. Like last year was an example. I picked I think just to tie who was way up the track. But you know, usually trying to find a way to beat the favorite, even though the favorite in a twenty horse field is higher than it would normally be under regular circumstances. But this year I have not found my way to picking
anybody other than journalism. Was that way with the ORB back in thirteen for Sugar mc gay. He's sometimes the favorite just you know, is the one that it has to be, and so you try to find a price to maybe be in an executor or a trifecta. And you know that even with the favorites, the payoffs are better than usual in those bets for Derby. But there's several things I like about journalism, like the name. First of all, don't bet on names, but journalism wins with
the nice headline to see. And then I think the fact that he is a pattern that I aways remembered victory gallop, and he narrowly lost the derby, and I think I would have cashed every bet they have on the derby if he had gotten up. But he came out as a three year old and ran a spectacular race, better, way better than anything he'd done it too, and then understandably backed off of that in his follow up start and then bounced back up or yo yoed back up.
I guess I would say bounce as a different connotation at racings yo yoed back up to that first effort off the bench, and that's kind of what it looks like with journalism. He ran a one oh eight buyer dropped down to a one o two, which is still
better than anybody in the field. But the other thing I liked about the sant Anita Derby, I was kind of thinking I would would pick against him as for the Derby because he'd already after that win that got the one oh eight buyer, And I think it was the Lewis stick at Santa Anita and stamped us a favorite, and I thought, Okay, he's just running against these short fields, and now he's got to go up against twenty and jock hasn't won a race of this caliber outside of California,
right uh, And so I had a couple of reasons I thought to go against him, and then I saw the sanity to Derby and he faced some adversity and he got put into a box and didn't know if he was going to get out, and once he did recently was pushing on him, and I thought, Okay, this hor's going to get beat today, because Baeza had a clear, easy lead at that point, and Baza had to knew
they had to win to get into Derby. And so that horse was trained to the minute, whereas sometimes like a horse like journalism had already done enough to qualify it, so he didn't have to be at his best in the Sanita Derby. But when he got out of that box and kind of straightened up and had a horse on a good horse on a loose lead in front of him, and he ran him down with no problem, I thought, Okay, that's that's enough for me. He's he's
my guy. And then the jock question number one. I like res Police has been a good interview at the times I've had a chance to talk with him, and I thought, you know, yeah, he hadn't won a race like this outside of California, but Todd Golan hadn't won an NCAA tournament game, nor had Mark Cope, And once they had the right horses, they did pretty well.
Yeah, you're right, you're right. I like journalism going into the Santa and now I like him a lot more for exactly what you just said. You know, did not have a clear path. They said he had to check basically, otherwise you know, might have clipped heels, and any horse in a race like that, as you know that can check and then hit the gas again. Now you can't do that in a derby because there's just too many
horses for the most part. But I just think that, Yeah, you're right, that horse, I think is really fearless and it has a huge chance coming in. Got to get the trip. Like everybody tell me about Bob Bafford and his return to the Kentucky Derby, I ran a comment from him last night about how he sounds like he's not harboring any ill will and how much he missed
the Derby. He said derby when he had to sit out at Derby parties, But he really talked about what the Derby has meant to his career and what it means to racing. So to that end, it's good to have him back, isn't it.
It is?
And he had always been, you know, very cooperative to be in interviews, so I had, you know, nothing against him and I and he's obviously the arguably the best ever at what he does when it comes to pointing for the Kentucky Derby, and there's a you know, the skill to that. I've always said it's like, uh, coaching a college basketball team, uh in the era of one and done and now in this era of you know, transfer portal where you're rarely going to have the same
team two years in a row. So it's all about with that one team peaking at the right time and then staying healthy and effort been able to work that formula as well or better than anybody over the course of his career, really going back to his first near miss with Kevin ear in ninety six, first to win with Silver charm in ninety seven. So yes to your question, good to have him back. And I'm not a big
fan of Reguez that I think Citizen bulls faster. And if Rodriguez can't get past Citizen Bull and then you know, I think he's will have trouble winning. The only exception of that would be if somehow Citizen Bull didn't break
and got buried down on the rail. But I actually think Citizen Bull is a little bit of a dangerous long shot because I think the rails are perfect draw for what he has to do to win the race, which is he's best when he's on the front, and I think he's probably faster than anybody else, unless you know, just under normal sort of somebody's determined to go out there and run it in first quarter mile twenty one and change, then they can maybe beat him to the lead.
But the way these horses typically run, I think he'll be on front, in the front, and if anybody can have a horse withstand a brutal pace and still have something left in the stretch, it's Baffords, Yeah, because he gets his horse's part of his success I think is they're just you know, dead fit when they come to the derby. So I don't see him as it's a stretched for me to see him winning it, But I'm just thinking as a contrarian, I could see him finishing second, third or fourth, yeah.
I can I feel better about Citizen Ball if he and his stablemate Rodriguez said at flip flop post positions. I just I know what you say about getting it on the rail early, but there's just so much traffic and horses that draw the rail have a greater challenge. It's those first like you said, those first couple of jumps, you got to clear that traffic. But he's got a good rider, Martin Garcia, so you know he can probably handle that. But I'm with you on that. We have
a few minutes left with Tom Leach real quickly. Let me ask you about the portal as it comes to football, and you've talked about it on your show. But you know a couple of interesting pickups, guys who had some trouble in the past but now have a chance to be really vital for Kentucky. That's Harley Gilmore, the receiver who was at Kentucky went to Nebraska, now he's back.
And the kid from New Mexico State, Seth McGowan, who was at Oklahoma, got in trouble when Juco in New Mexico State where ran behind Shas Pete, and now he's at Kentucky. It's interesting how those two guys tom could be vital to this Kentucky team.
They can, and those are positions where more depth was needed, right, And I know they were really high on Hardy last season last year until he got hurt and then still found his way back onto the field and then uh mcgallan's had some serious issues certainly. Uh but it's a good bit of time has passed and as far as
I know, there hasn't been anything since then. Uh So, yeah, I don't want to downplay, you know, the seriousness of the what he did that was accused of at the time, but it's you know, guys, you can uh learn from mistakes,
and so hopefully that's what happens. And guys, these are guys that take advantage or take advantage of the opportunity they've been given with a set of circumstances where Kentucky had a need and also a track record of you know, helping some guys that you know, have had a few issues and didn't have the perfect sense into their college
careers and that it worked out fine. So they've got a track record of being able to, you know, get players into the way they do things and keep them on the path they're supposed to be on when they're at UK and so I, well, I think that's it's they've got the track record that you can have faith in and guys that look like they have the potential to help them.
Yeah. And it's interesting you say just that because that's essentially I felt like the message that Mark Stoops sent out to the media to a public if you read between the lines, basically saying, look, last year with the portal, we didn't do the best job of bringing in the right kids who did the right thing, and we're going to double down on that this time. So I think if indeed they're successful there, it'll look like a different year, don't you think. Yes.
And that's where what I've said is that I understand the doubts, the skepticism off the season that we saw last year, and I understand you know that, I think that's a destroy the athletic looking at the SEC and it's comment of Kentucky was trading water or something. I get that feeling. But from the standpoint of Mark and his staff, if they're right about correcting mistakes that they made in the past, then that's how you outperform those expectations.
That's exactly right. Well, here's Tom Leach and you can hear him each and every day on this Ferry radio station on the Leads Report, and we hope that you take Tom's advice. If you did on the Keelan Meat, you probably have some fun and maybe you'll have more fun with the Derby. Thank you, sir, have a great weekend.
Happy Derby is our friend? Mister Asher used to say.
Yes, coming up an hour number two uber Capper ls Starr, he'll try to help us make some money on Derby and Oaks Day. We're back in just a minute on six thirty.
Wlpntet tact.
Tact then.
Don't welcome back join now by gentlemen, we talked to you a couple of times a year at least. That is Ella Star is the uber capper on Twitter or ex if you will public handicapper Block speaks to a lot of groups and helps us win at the racetrack, are you sir?
On great Dick and Hello racing fans even't racing fans most of the year, Maybe they are this week for sure with a great Derby and Oaks coming up.
There you go, hey, before I get into this I don't know if I've ever asked you this. How did you become the uber capper? How did this particular line of work grab you.
It's a long story, long story, I can think, pretty short, pretty interesting. And living in California in the nineties, I answered an ad and used to be ads in the racing form for a startup company in Silicon Valley called track Master that needed a product development manager or had extensive racing knowledge. And I've been going to the tract
for decades and took a job there. And as we developed beginning of the Internet, basically starting back then putting out pastformerces that people getting their programs or reforms we all. So I started to do selections and they were really well received. And I found that my writing ability, I
thought was something people liked. So I started doing that as well as all the other things I do and moved to Kentucky in two thousand and one to come to work for Ecovate the database as the industry and continue to do the same thing and do blogs as you said, and work with groups, particularly under the repulso At Kieman, telling them how to bet what the bets me and also hopefully ferreting out the winners and.
Some of the races.
Well, thanks to you, I have cast several tickets and I'm not ashamed to tell people that I share it on the Twitter when I can. And by the way, you can see Ellis's work in America's Best Racing dot Net backslash Gambling equabased dot com backslash premium. And it's a great time of year. And I'm wondering as a guy, I think, I know that you came here from California. How did you feel about moving from the West coast to the racing capital.
I think I was always at Kentucky and Dick know how miss That's great, that's.
The best answer.
The first time I flew back to like and I thought, well, I think I'm coming home. You know, said, that's forty years in California. You I just the way everybody embraces racing and also having four seasons and everything else about the hospitality in this part of the woods.
You are in such high demand as a speaker. Does this week ever get old for you?
Or is it.
Exciting every week? Every year? I should say Derby and Oaks.
Week very exciting every time. I wait, I don't try enough to make lists in advance and wait for the entries to come out and look at it the same way out any race, but with the especially the two championship races on Friday and Saturday, the Oaks and the Derby, you're looking at a different ballgame here because these are the best three year olds males and females in the
country at this point and figuring it out. But it's always a new puzzle and it's always a lot of fun and to honestly, it never gets those fantastic.
Well, let's talk about the Oaks a little. I haven't had really much of a chance to get into that yet. What does the field look like this year?
Good field of fourteen, But there is a standout and there has been in the Oaks a few years during the radio Alexandra ranks to riches. This year we have an undefeated Philly name good Cheer who's six for six and she's really not even undefeated. He's been unchallenged in the last sixteenth of a mile in most of her races. She's improving. It's only the third start of the year. She won the first four last year and it was the Golden Rod at Churchill, so she's got experience over
the track, which can be important as well. And then took a few months off, came back even more mature and won the Ragio Alexandra Stakes name for that Fantastic Philly as well as the Fairgrounds Oaks, and she skipped the race after which is sometimes they go to the Fantasy in Oklahoma's phil just gonna have a little more of a gap I feel between their last race and the Oaks than Colescaha between their last race for Derby.
So she's coming in the race. It's just fine. Trained by Brad Cox, who I had a note who won this race in there is twenty eighteen and twenty twenty and that was the one I was postponed to the summer. But she's doing everything right. When she opens his heavy favorite and she is the one to be. There are some horses that can in and they decide to leap frog over her. Something happens and she doesn't break well
or something else. But other than that, she's tough and it makes for a fun race having a horse that is a buzz horse, so to speak.
I agree. I think people like it. It's like when a great boxer is dominating the field, you know now, and of course there's gambling on that too, But just in watching the race, you want to be able to marvel at their ability, but you also want to see if somebody can pull the upset. This is a good Dolphin Philly, and they've been bringing pretty good horses to these races, haven't they.
Yeah they do.
They're didn't have a good pair in the Derby as well, and yeah, really they change the regiment. A lot of the horses are homebreads here in Kentucky and any race in the.
In the US.
They don't go to the Middle East of Japan to race, and that's not a knock, but it's just it's been the program and this might be the year. And certainly this Philly, she's definitely bred to get the nine Forlong says well. There are some other works that are interesting. Here a horse named Lakara who won the local property Ashland here in Lexington, and she won that race really interesting because she lets them start to finish. But for whatever reason it was nay horse field. The other jockeys
and horses let her really slow down. I mean she ran. Just to give an example, an average quarter mile in the middle of a race might be twenty three and four fifths, three fifths twenty four seconds. She got two quarters of a mile in twenty five flats, so she was able to kick home just like a stretch runner. And she also wanted Turchill down, which is good. She wanted to poke honest the last September and that race he closed from eleven, so she's versatile and she's got a shot.
There's a horse trained by Ken McPeek who won of course last year with Thorpey Doanna named take Charge of Milady. She ran second to Lakara and she had no chance to close into a care She's a nice horse. Another one called Blessed the Broker who won just up the Interstate at Terrify Park. She won the Burbonet Oaks on March twenty second, and she'll be a long shot because a lot of people discount horses coming to Churchill down the running in the big races off the Chfley Park
for him. But she was really impressive. She moved from fifth to first on the far turn in the blink of an ipack. I say that was probably an eighth of a mile and she's ridden by a Hall of fame Jock and John Velasquez. So another one that certainly had a shot here. As you said, POSSI post the episode if good cheers not to the task.
I was going to ask you about Kenny's horst take charge Milady, because as you said, the race that she lost ahead of what was the Ashland. When you allow somebody on the front end to run a couple of quarters in twenty five, that means they're resting. I mean, you just can't let that.
Happen, right, Those an't workout times. I mean want twenty five second quarters when they're in the morning. So a horse like charge of Malady who two races before that, in a state race called that Martha Washington had closed from fourth to fourth to first with a quarter mile to go and then drew off, and a couple of
races before that she closed from fifth to second. She's got no shot because you're basically facing a fresh horse at Kara who can kick on and run the last sixteens a mile in about six and a half seconds. So you got no shot. Still don't know if we're gonna have that kind of pace that she needs to, but it does look like it because in this race.
There was a horse called Early on the rail simply joking in the two, finally in the three, and they've all run first and second in their last race in the first quarter and a half mile, so there could be an honest, honest pace to set up for Take Charge of Malady.
What do we know about the weather for Friday, how it might affect the race.
It looks like it's gonna be kind of showery off on all day. It's been updated a little bit. I think it's a little sticking around a little more to Saturday morning. But I don't think we're looking at anything heavy. And they even will affect it. You know, time to fan comes, there's any breaks in the clouds trickle down. So does a fantastic job of grooming the track, getting the water off. If there is water on it, they'll feel it tight, so everybody will run over the same track.
I'll get the water off so there'll be no puddles to run through and stuff. I don't think it'll make a difference. Most these horses do avoid what tracks, but they often run over the same track. And I think your ability shines through at.
This level, and they do a great job at Churchill. When it comes to weather. We're talking to Lstar, the uber capper. You can follow his work via Twitter or x if you will, and at equabas dot com. We're back in just a minute to talk about the Derby here on six thirty WLAP. Welcome back. My guest is Lstarr. He is a public handicapper, a speaker, a blogger. You can follow his work via America's Best Racing dot net or equabase dot com. And we've talked about the Oaks, LUs,
let's talk about the Derby. Do you see journalism the way the rest of us do? Basically, he's the chalk. Is he the best horse in the race?
Well, yeah, I think so. A couple ks ago, I was looking to Sovereignty as my top pick, and don't get back to him in a second, but journalism when I watched the races again and how he met the challenges of the last two races again similar to which we just talked about the Oaks a good year, having a great two year old season and taking arrest and coming back as if there had been no time lost.
Journalism did that and he won his first three last race last year was December of fourteenth, and then he's off till March. First he wins as if he'd never been away. Yes, it was a five hoarse s field in California, but he did beat two of baffer tourses and we know how good they can be. And then Journalism won the Sandy Derby and in the Sane's Derby were interesting because Baiza, who has entering the Derby, is the last also eligible, which ships in if somebody scratches.
Baza had made the lead and Journalisms met that challenge and just said no, I'm not going to let it happen, and he just did. It didn't need and he had enough points to enter the gate in the derby so he didn't need to. He's really really good and he's very consistent in terms of we call speed figures that we use to normalize for time among different tracks. Is speed figure was a one ten and a one oh eight.
Those are very good, about one ten average to win the Derby, he's got the best pair of speed figures. Other worses that have one or nine's in one of their last two as well, but he's got the best pair of figures to improve upon. My understanding is he's been working phenomenally in the morning. So you know, luckily in a normal racehorse like this might be one to
one or less. He might be three to one or five to two, two and a half to one here, which may be worth it for a horse like this, but the contention doesn't end with him because there are some unknown factors in this race.
Well, you've got a jockey who's never won the race, but of course he's been riding the horse. How much weight do you put on jocks? I know, if he's a Hall of Famer, you don't have to worry about it. But this race is different, isn't it?
Well?
What it is? And Emburrow Riskally, who's been running in California, one the top three jockeys in California three years, knows this horse well and he's been at Churchill Downs. I think she rode at Quemlin closing weekend riding at Churchill to get used to it. It can't be an issue though, because it is a big white horse. You know, it's a mile and eighth on a mile, and it's a little different than what he might be used to riding.
But as far as the derby goes, I don't put any on the main the top ten jockeys ones for the best two or three from all North America but New York, California and Florida. I don't put much spit in them. I like it when they've ridden a horse before. If they haven't, I take a look at who they are. In normal racist jockey means a lot. I probably give weight to jockey's quickly if they've ridden a horse before
and ridden it well. In the MIDI other jockeys rode the horse incident, it didn't ride well, and they're getting reunited with jockey that somehow helped the horse to win.
Yeah, I'm always leary when a jock meets the horse for the first time that week or something like that. But yeah, this guy knows the horse. And I've liked journalism early. And then when I saw that he had it in the Santa Anita and still dug in and as you said, came back and ran down a live horse, that that convinced.
Me it's mental. You know, mental is very important in human athletics as well, you know, Michael Jordan, all the great athletes the ft century. Mental is very important. And so when a horse wants to win and when an issue like having to steady a little bit loose and momentum and doesn't stop a horse from meeting his challenge and knowing that he wants to be the best horse
and extending his stride. It's fairly important, prickically, when you get into a twenty horse field what you're going to have on Saturday?
Yeah? Are you said you like sovereignty? Did the eighteen whole body you?
No?
That doesn't bother me. And my feeling about Salveergy coming into the race was he didn't need to win the Florida Derby. The horse that did win the race to Panstry did and unfortunately he's out third out with an injury before the entries were taken. So Sabergny just needed to finish second. He did that and before that in these two races, both again he experienced at Churchill Downs,
which journalist does not have. Sovereignty won the Street Sense Stakes last October in the Street Cent Stakes and then in his first to start as a three year old in the Fountain He sovereignty showed a very great ability to respond when asked by the jockey, in this case Junior Alvarado, to really pick up a stride almost like a turf horse does to really speed up, and that's always important. When they get into that far turn they
run about a mile and eighth. Most of the horses are starting to tire because they haven't run that far, just don't have it in them. And a horse has to extricate itself either movie matine traffic or going outside and losing ground but accelerating, and he does have that acceleration. My only concern was again looking at how fast he's run. His sea figures have been ninety nine nine ninety four and most of the horses and this race of broken hunters, I said one tens about average, so he may not
be as fast. However that may be a function of the pace of those races he was if they weren't that fast. And this year's Derby Dick, we are going unless something crazy happens to have a very very fast paced And I write this in my article because Bob Baffert's Citizen Ball draws the rail last door knock threw the rail and that cost him because he got bumped and never got to leave. The Citizen Bowl has had the lead at the first quarter and a half mile
and four races in a row. Just next to him is Neo Equos, who closed from second in the forty Derry ended up third, but his only win around two turns. I was trying to say his best race around two turns and he's only when this year came leading start to finish to posts. Outside of him is Rodriguez, another Baffort starter who's both wins have come leading from start
to finish, including the Wood Memorial. Lucas has a horse in the five called American Promise who likes to run, of course, and then you have two on the outside, but one on the outside for sure in Over Almighty, who decided to run this race and his two wins have been wired a while. When he doesn't get the lead,
he runs second round the tracker, he fades late. And one more thing really important not even telling people two weeks in this race, is that Sovereignties we mentioned you mentioned own my good Dolphin was good cheer, but they also have East Avenue in the race, and East Avenue made the lead in the Bluegrass Stakes, kept the lead all the way for the wire, looked like he was going to get beat and he fought on before he
was passed the wire by Burnham Square. His other two wins have been wired to wire and he put blinkers onto that race. Blinkers for folks listening and don't know help horse to focus. They can't see as much behind us. They got to look ahead. You've got up to six horses here. They're gonna want to need the lead. And in my mind God Dolphin is not going to use East Avenue as sacrificial lamb. But they won't. I said they won't use it.
They won't use it.
But with his natural speed, it ends up serving that same purpose to make sure there's a fair pace for sovereignty. That same fair pace will benefit other closers as well. But there's going to be a really hot pace. And to be honest, I didn't like any of these horses at least as far as winter Place that have shown furry speed of these races. So that leads me to a couple others. And you asked me to be are I can just tell you there.
Yeah, Well East Avenue by Badalia d'Oro that was a speed horse. So he comes by that quality honestly, But he's not going to be a rabbit right now.
Well, I don't think there'll be a rabbit. Rabbit isn't intentional. Yeah, I think it's just going to happen. It's just gonna happen. But he doesn't need to now because there is a simple Neil Eclos Rodriguez American promise. Oh in Almighty, you've got enough, only two of me to go out there instead of really we saw two years in a row.
I made a note in my article can Get Free about the Derby that the last two years we had a twenty two point ninety seven and forty six sixty three opening quarter and a half and those horses ended up eleventh, seventeenth, and fifteenth, and two years ago he had twenty two thirty five and forty seventy three and the four horses that were battling for the end up sixteenth and fourteen, thirteenth, and seventeenth. So this is why
you don't want. You want what's coming from way behind, necessarily, But it's very difficult to pick horses who have only shown the desire to lead early in the race.
Yeah, I mean Rodriguez ran off of the wood, but he's not going to get a chance to do that here.
Uh. And Bob Bafford has said Boub Bafford has said he's trained horses to come from behind. Maybe that's true, but you have to go with what's in their past performances and that's not the case so far.
Anybody knows how to win a Derby, obviously it's Bob.
Uh.
Whatever you think about Bob Bafford in terms of the marketing of the race and speaking to fans. Uh, he's good for the good for the sport, didn't.
He Yeah, absolutely no, He definitely knows how to talk. He jokes. Him and Lucas are fantastic, you know, just just really ambassadors for the sport and it's really good. I do have one more horse I want to mention. This is one of the two horses that have been running in other countries.
Uh.
And his name is lux Or Cafe. Yeah. He ran his first five five six races in Japan. And the other is it was just appokes as admire Daytona who was actually bred in Japan, and he won the UAE Derby which last year is almost winner or Forever Young last year almost won the race coming out of the UA Derby. But Lusher Cafe is interesting one to me because he's a Kentucky bread.
Yep.
He was bred in Kentucky by American Pharaoh Criple Crown winner Cripple Crown and Grand Slam winner who won the Breedish Cup Classics. And he's out of a really good Mayor Mary's Folly was produced a horse named Royal Blessing and one two point six million, mostly on turf, but definitely a long distance horse. And I watched his races in Japan, two of them, and in those races it came from far back, came from seventh and one, came from sixth in the other, and he came from ninth
in another post second. So he's another one that unless you you can find these races online, they're available. Unless you know you know what he's running, you think, oh, maybe not. And he's got speed figures that match up one O eight, one o five, one oh five with journalisms, but better than that, he's been training here, he's got the breeding, he's definitely got the running style to not be last but maybe eight to twelfth early and to make a late kick. And he could run really well
at high out. I think he opened it fifteen to one ons.
Yep, he's going to be in my exotics I can tell you that, and good here American pharaoh being his daddy, that that counts a lot. If you ask men, can you imagine Elis if a horse they're calling this a Japanese horse, which as you said, technically he's not, but raced through Japan. If a horse that raced through Japan wins this, can you imagine what the reaction is going to be like in Japan.
Oh, it's unbelievable.
But you know the Japanese program. If you watch the races at May Dawn, that you buy a World Cup with thirty million dollars in racist the last year's and also the Breeders' Cup turf races the last year years. The Japanese breeding and training program is one of the best in the world and they've been showing up on the world stage. So yes, this is going to be a First of all, he's going to be extremely heavily bet with Japanese fans, and second of all that they'll
go crazy. And Mayer Daytona as well, who's also a nice question.
Yeah, yeah, but he beat ad Meyer Daytona right a.
Couple Yes, he did. The only time they ran. He ran in November of twenty twenty four and he also beat him in February of this year, and then the Mayor Daytona went to the UAE Derby and won that one in less of a field, but he did it pretty important. He went wired to wire in that race. But before that you close. So Luxo Cafe definitely is the kind of work that fits on every level in my money, chicks, when you say he checks all the boxes.
There you go tell everybody how to read your writings and the.
Best way to follow you well, as you said, you can follow me on Twitter, slash exsit uber capper, on blue sky at uber kapper, as well on threads at uber caper one and and you can just google my name Elis Star like you said, American Best Racing and Echo Base. We have the Derby Race of the Week which is about two thousand words this year covering a
lot of different analysis of the race. And from there you can if you want, you can get full cards selections for all thirteen races Friday and fourteenth Saturday for a small fee. But I'll be posting about some of them as well, and hopefully that's the way you can find me. We'll have a great day this bookcase on Friday and Saturday, folks.
I recommend it. He can help you make money and have more fun that way. Ellis, thanks, have a great weekend.
Hey, thank you very much.
And you know that's not hyperble either. I have made money on more than one occasion with Elis's picket a day. It might have been at a Kentucky track, might have been at Woodbine up in Toronto, but his picket a
day is usually pretty solid. When we come back, we'll talk more about Larry Johnson, the late Wildcat who just passed here on six thirty WLAP Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider, joined now by former Wildcat well once a while kid, always a while kid, Maryon Haskins, who played alongside Larry Johnson for a few years at Kentucky. A fellow Western Kentucky and Marion, and I know you hated to lose your teammate, didn't you.
I really hated to lose my teammate, you know when all this was happening. You know, I try to be there as much as I could. Larry and I we first met in Sharon, Pennsylvania at the Sharon, Pennsylvania High School tournaments. There in nineteen the spring of nineteen seventy three.
So from there, Larry and I played at that All Star Game and we played in a Dayton Classic there in Dayton, Ohio, and we became really good friends those two tournaments, and then it was tied for being recruited, and we were just comparing our notes and whatnot, and we ended up being to the Kentucky as our favorite school.
When so, when you guys run the All Star Games, you hadn't chosen UK yet.
No, we had not. Wow, we had not told you. We both was unsigned at that time.
So when you talked, what did you talk about? Not just UK but other schools that were probably looking at both of you. But what was that like when you sat down and chatted.
Well, we it was mostly about the coaches, it appears to me and my memory. It was about the coaches, the head coach and the assistant coaches, and it was mostly about about those kinds of things. Yeah, you know, we didn't know a lot because you know, back then it was no Internet. There was not a lot of
information about the teams. You know, back then, I remember Kentucky were only play of the layed cast at eleven o'clock at night, and they was fortunate to have bad and because at that time not to Day was the only shood I remember that had at a live game, so that was important to be able to see those games. But didn't know a lot about the teams and stuff,
you know, just get unless you watch them. You just didn't know if it makes you was not there, so I knew, and we knew that we were pretty daggone good players, you know, from playing in the All Star against comparag a lot of these kids. They had a whole lot of credentials prep all Americans and all this stuff. And I mean we played right with him and even played a little bit better.
I thought, yeah, oh yeah. And when you saw Larry play, was it pretty evident right away that you know? I mean, it's such a great defender and ball handler. I guess that was pretty evident when he was a high school senior.
Let me tell you, I grew up on a small farm, bill cows through hey cut tobacco, and Larry probably did some of the similar things. We were farm strong young men. And when I met this guy and I tried to guard this guy, and I tried to push him around, I said, my god, I said, he is not from downtown, some big city. This guy is stronger than offense. I mean, he was just as tough as I've ever played against. So man, I knew then, I said, man, just to be a great teammate.
Well, and because you were both like what football coaches like to call country strong or farm strong. And yes, the way you played basketball, Joe Hall appreciated that, no end, didn't he exactly.
He appreciated, you know, we were mentally tough. So I didn't weigh be one hundred and ninety two or three pounds then learned anyway, it was about one hundred about the same. But man, let me tell you, we were strong and did not back down from nobody. And he was the same boy. He was just as tough as the other one and just a great person.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, Well he had that million watch smile, didn't he.
Yeah, that's my always was a happy guy. I never saw him in a sad moment, and even in his last few days, you know, he was still happy, and so he couldn't do much talking. But I would say some things that that happened in the past, and he made them alive. Man, he make them alive. Yeah.
People don't realize how great a player Larry was. First of all in college, right, and then when he went on to Japan, played a year in the NBA, but went on to Japan, and he was almost a legend over there, wasn't he.
Oh yes, I see Larne played there at least I want to think fifteen years. Yeah, about fifteen years, I think. I think they're in Japan and you know, you've done a great job there and whatnot, because you know, he drafted and he played for a season, a few seasons in the NBA. Ye oh yeah, and we still were made friends, you know. I mean was talking about going overseas to play, and that was an interesting conversation.
Did you ever go overseas?
No, I didn't go. Larry got invited to go to Italy and Larry did a packing seal says that if I go, I got a brain Marinhattan. Yeah, and they said he can come, but we're not gonna pay its way until they make the team. Well, you know, back in nineteen seventy seven, you know seven eight earline was a lot of Moneyeah, buddy, And if I got there, I tell Larry, I suppose I same my ankle the first day. Yeah, you know, so I didn't have to go, you know, but it was it was a lot of fun.
Oh yeah, you know I tell people this and and again, not a knock on Kyle Macy or anybody else, but that's seventy seventeam with Larry at the point. That team just destroyed people. Seventy eight team. I always taying a toy with teams before they put them away because they
knew how good they were. Man, that seventy seven team, I always say it was like a kid with a new toy and absolutely shredded teams and you know, just some tough luck is why it ended up in the East Regional and not playing at home in rep Arena in the midies. Otherwise Joe b has another title.
Right, Hey, we should have had the years I played three out of four years. Yeah, easily, easily could have had three out of four. You know that team. I mean, even the guys on the seventy eighteen they would say the same thing, the seventy seventeen what's much deeper deeper? And well we had a you know, we had a tart tart of there to go by, and we were
just like Bird team. But I'll tell you something that John was after he retired that year, he came back and he watched us practice there in uh, Pennsylvania, I think it was there. And he came over to us and were sitting down on the bench, and and I remember he lived at Joe Hall. He said, Joe, I want to tell you something here. He said, you got a great team. He said, but my best team never won the NCAA championship. No, wait a minute, where's the guy nine championships? Nine of me? Right?
I had ten?
Okay either, And he said, my best team never won the time. Now that's deep. That's really deep.
One which one did he think? Was it seventy fourteen?
He never said, Yeah, I was. We can't understand. I was listening in.
I couldn't know.
I've never heard that story. Man. I wish I could ask Joe B that question.
That that he was talking there. He talked to the team about you know, winning and tradition and stuff like that, and on sort of the sidebar conversation he was done with a few kind of saying there kit chatting with Joe B and uh. And of course, you know, I was always kind of comforted by Joe Hall anyway, and I hear him say that, and I was like, oh
my god. Yeah, And you know, at that time it didn't mean a lot to me, But now I got a much more matured person that was really strong, really deep, you know, and now I think team what should have been that didn't win it? Now, you know, I'm sure he had a lot of things that went into the team, not just you know, win losses and stuff like that. Problem. But yeah, it was great.
Yeah, talking to Mary and Askins. He was a basketball wildcat back in the seventies and a teammate of Larry Johnson. We lost this week, and Larry was a great leader. You're a great defender. We were talking Tom Leach and I were talking about that n I T. Larry had a great NI T when you guys wanted up in New York in seventy six, And course Reggie and I talked about Larry taking the ball and going the link to the floor for a layup that beat the buzzer
against Providence. What do you remember about that?
I was just so elated. I don't remember all of the details. Yeah, the day, but that was a great tournament. I mean the NI T that year was fantastic. We had some great wins, We had some things to prove, you know, to our hands that you know, we had a tough season, but we can't. I think we end fifty fifty that year or something like that. Yeah, and Joe's Hall looked at us and said, I'm not going to be a losing coach and we're not team. And we made sure that we didn't do that.
You were ten ten at one point, that's right, and you won five straight and you got the n I T bid and then in the last you played in the last regular season game in Memorial Coliseum and y'all damn near lusted, but somehow got it into overtime and won. The Missisippi State kids run the radio saying, hey, mom, we beat Kentucky.
Man, that history is unbelievable in it. I'm telling you, I thought we couldn't lose this game here. It's no way. But man, I tell you we didn't. We didn't play well. No, we some kind of way.
Yeah, Jack got hot down the stretch.
Yeah, I know.
That happened a lot though, didn't it.
Jack get that hot?
That was also a period of time. It was I think the Vanderbilt game and Reggie Warford was throwing the ball in bounds and actually threw it into the opposite basket. Didn't count as a bucket, but it was quite a highlight.
Highlight. Yeah, and you remember what what Joe b did at halftime? Who started the second half.
Game?
No debanded game?
Oh no, I don't remember.
I think you looked at the record. I think it was all reserved. Guys. Wow, that started the game, as I recall. Wow, But or it might have been no first minute you took it back.
Yeah. So when he subbed at halftime of the Florida State game in the seventy eight tournament, that wasn't the first time he did that, was it?
Uh huh.
He was a tough guy, wasn't he. That's why you guys were perfect for him.
Well, you know we were tough. Yeah.
And you know what else? He loved, Marion. He loved that you were Kentucky kids. That was really important to him.
Well that's okay. He never said that, you know, couldn't Joel. He didn't give you a whole lot of accolades. No, but yeah, you know, he was just well, it was the era that he grew up in to the era because I had some bosses and my job that worked on they were just mentally tough, Yeah, tough, and that's what they had to be. They were coming off of you know, the World War One babies and stuff like that, so they had to be mentally tough people and they were.
And you guys had to be tough because and you and I have talked about this before, and we talked about it for the documentary we did on Reggie that you were among the earliest African Americans to play at Kentucky. You know, Tom Pan had coming gone, but Reggie was kind of paving the way and he reached out to you guys and said, I need you here U exactly. But those were bonds. Those were unbreakable bonds.
Weren't they They were They were bonds that that never will be broken. And you know, and I always with tease Larry. You know, you know I was the third because I remember the day that I find here in Kentucky at my mom and dad's house. Uh, we called Larry and I said, Larry, I signed a piece of paper. I said I'm number three. As you carry up, it's gonna be number four. So I remember Joe and Dickie and the crowd. They went straight to Morganfield and Larry.
They called me the not the next day I can remember now, and said, well we got Larry too.
That's great.
But oh and and I think, you know, I look back at history and the people that we recruited during the time that it wasn't very popular down you know, a lot of Nardis on the team that they were choosing the caliber a person that would represent the university, you know. So and it all worked out well. You know, we got guys in Colorado, Labron, We we got to get guys from from Ohio, Florida. They came in from everywhere,
you know, and they were just great guys. And he's still all great guys, you know, guys who so but but but they were doing the right thing when they laid the groundwork. They put the foundation down, you know, for other coaches in another place to build.
All Marian, it's always great talking to you. I'm sorry we had to do it under such a sad conditions, but I was glad to see you at the reunion weekend earlier this year. Hope to see you again soon, my friend. Thank you so much.
All Right, Dick. I appreciate you give me a call.
Marion Haskins, a basketball wildcat back in the mid seventies and a teammate of the late Larry Johnson. We'll come back and wrap this up in just a minute on six thirty WLAP Welcome back time for a quick segment. My thanks to Marion Haskins, along with my other guess, Tom Leach and Ellis Starr. I really loved talking to
Marion because he played varsity ball for four years. You know, he was allowed, but they still had a freshman team and I covered freshman basketball when I was a freshman at Kentucky, and Marian was actually the best player on the freshman team. He played in two varsity games that year, and then the following three seasons played in virtually every game, so you know, he was a sub coming off the bench. But Joe b liked playing him because he was a
tough guy and a solid defender. And Marion made some big plays through his career. He only scored one hundred and thirty four points for his career, but he was one of those guys who dug in and did the dirty work. And I really enjoy talking to him because It just takes me back to a time when you know, they were playing varsity games in Memorial Coliseum and we
were all much much younger. But he was a star at Taylor County in Campbellsville, the brother of Clem Haskins and one of these guys at Kentucky and it was a good kid air quotes which Joe B. Hall loved and knew he needed and wanted in his program, and he was really getting things started as a head coach. My thanks again to Marry and condolences to friends and family of Larry Johnson. Tomorrow night at Kentucky Baseball, we'll be with you for a little while. It's a seven
o'clock start at Mississippi State. Darren's pregame begins at six forty five, so we'll be with you up until that point. It's a Mississippi State team that might be in disarray or might be playing inspired baseball because Ad just fired the head coach, and Darren we'll talk a little bit about that. Of course, Nick Minngione going back to where he was an assistant coach, and rumors are, oh, they're gonna interview Nick. Naw, he'll stay a Kentucky that's the
way I see it. So anyhow, we'll have it for you right here, and we'll have some derby doings just before that. Thanks so much for joining us. That said, good night from the garage and lexingon do.
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