Welcome to the Big Loon. Sader Dick Gabriel with you on a Friday, just ahead of the big day. Arkansas Kentucky not as big as we thought it might be. Right, we thought when the schedule was first released, everybody looked to see where the Arkansas game fell on the schedule. We really thought, I really believe fans media like probably if you held them down, the coaches would admit they
really thought that this Arkansas game. And they're all tough, but it would match a Kentucky team trying to fight its way through the league in an Arkansas team that might be contending for one of the top four spots in the SEC tournament, not the championship. They weren't good enough, but no, they're really struggling and they've lost their best player, Boogie Flan. But as soon as they lost him, they won their first conference game, the Razorbacks did. So you
don't know what's going to happen. Maybe they come in here and throw in every shot that they put up. Doubtful, but we do know it'll be dramatic. It'll be you know, John Caliperry show the Return. I want you to talk about that today because we talked about it yesterday and it's probably even talked about enough. But Rick Patino weighed in from his office up at Saint John's.
Hello, Big Blue Nation. I didn't steer you wrong with Mark Pope when I sent out that last video, and I certainly won't steer you wrong with this video.
Toughest day of.
My coaching career at Louisville was when I had to walk into Upperna. Tried not to show it, but when I went home the reception, it taught me up apart because I loved that place so much. And it's interesting because I speaking and Cooley just recently about Providence and he said he almost was brought to tears because of the bad feelings he got going back there.
But this is different.
And as you all know, I'm not best friends with John cal Perry. I respect him certainly, but it was a mutual thing. The fans wanted to change John's read the tea leaves. He needed a change, and he really didn't want to leave. But what did he do for you? He brought the best talent in the history of the game of any university in America to Lexington. He also won a national championship he also was his style of
play was extremely entertaining. So he's coming back on Saturday, and I want all of you to show the great class that you have, twenty three thousand plus people giving him a huge standing ovation, show him what respect and admiration's all about. I know you have the class I've always believed in. You do it once again.
I have to admit I don't know why would he do this. I just can't figure it out. But what I think is interesting, first of all is that he did it. Secondly is that he admitted how much it tore him up to come back to rupp Arena with U of L. He was happy at U of L, but it tore him up. He said, to come to rupp Aerena because of course we stuck in Boston. In his brains handed to him realizing he had screwed up. He didn't get Tim Duncan. It's not going the way
he hoped. Yeah, he was rich beyond his wildest dreams, but he wanted to win. Never came close in Boston. Could have won, in my opinion, you'd probably agree a couple more championships at Kentucky, but he screwed that up. Let it all, get away, comes back, does a really great job at U of l until the bitter end,
and then he drops this. And the other thing that amazed me about this was when he said, you know, basically said, you know, we're not best buddies, him and John Caliperry, but to plead basically on Cali Perry's behalf. But I think part of that too was he wants the Big Blue Nation to be thought of in a good way, and if fans just cascade Rupp Arena with Booze, I think it's going to reflect poorly on this place
that he loved so much. I thought that it's really interesting because I had forgotten this when I put together the documentary on the ninety six team they won the championship. You remember they beat U Mass in the final four, but U Mass had beaten Kentucky early in the year, second or third game of the year when Patino was playing Tony Delk and Jeff Shepard at the point instead of Anthony Epps, and Patino later said I lost that game, you know, by not playing the right people at point guard.
When he moved Delk to the shooting guard and Epps to the point guard spot. It all fell into place. But after that game and Steve Moss and wk YT reminded me that we had this SoundBite in the archives. Here's a young John Calipery sounding like John Calipery basically telling Kentucky fans whom he would later call crazy and whatever. But as the UMass coach telling Kentucky fans how they are to treat their own coach. I just hold a game like this.
The people in Kentucky don't go nuts their minds like they always do and think everything's all over the world's coming to it, and they've got a great basketball team.
They've got a great basketball coach.
Let him coach.
Don't call the radio shows and tell him what his problems off. He'll figure it out.
Leave them alone. He's the best there is in all of the profession, whether it's NBA, high school, college, whatever.
It is, he's the best.
And again, that was John Caliperry, then the UMass coach back in nineteen ninety five, after his team beat the Kentucky team that were going to beat them in the Final four and win the national championship. He might deny saying that about Rick Patino, but he certainly said it then, and he already knew what to expect from Kentucky fans
when he got here. So it's just been interesting. I heard somebody in a press conference ask Pope about the fact that national pundits are telling Kentucky fans what to do. I've not witnessed that, and I certainly have not said anything about what people ought to do. I said, if you want to do him, go right ahead. Just keep in mind what he did. Why are you booing? And as I told somebody the other day, I said, people are booing. I think if they do because they're not
mad that he went to Arkansas. I don't believe because Arkansas is not like Louisville or Tennessee. Yeah, it's a conference team. People are still mad at him because of the way he left the program, but those two bitter losses in the nca Tournament from teams that should have gone a lot farther. People are still angry about that and have lost whatever memory they should have, in my opinion, of what he did when he got here. And there are people who, to me on social media have dismissed
what had happened here under Billy Gillespie. UK basketball had disintegrated to just like being just some other also ran program and Cala Perry brought it back unbelievably. Well, yeah, I screwed it up at the end, and it was his fault because he's stubborn and it's hurting him now at Arkansas in my opinion. But unbelievable job he did here. He gave you Kim fans exactly what they wanted for six years. They turn around gave him what they wanted when he left and left all that money on the table.
So now Mark Pope's got to beat Arkansas. His team needs to jump up, find a way to beat the Razorbacks. Pope talked about the media and Caliperi and this and that, but he said, you know, at the end of the day, they got a game to win.
At the end of the day, like, we have serious
work to do. You know, we're we're This league is brilliant and wonderful and incredibly competitive, and every single team can win every single night, and you know, everybody's dealing with dynamics on their roster and injury and fatigue and frustration and growth and trying to make it through to position themselves in the best place they possibly can for the SEC Tournament and to make a run in the postseason, and and so that's what consumes most of our time.
As well it should. It's a nine o'clock start. Ksar Boys begin at six thirty. Cameron and David seven thirty, Tom and Jack with the call. Got to stay up a little bit later to watch the Cats and the Razorbacks. The UK women get to win last night over number twenty two Alabama had to come from behind to do it. They trailed after the first quarter twenty one to fifteen, but then held Bama only nine points in the second quarter went on to win at sixty five fifty six,
low scoring game. Kenny Brooks said, it was all about that defense.
I thought our defense was really good second thirty, fourth quarters, and you know, it wasn't always the prettiest. I thought we were a little bit off a little bit some of the some of the balls that we normally grab and secure we were tipping. But nonetheless I thought we really came out. I thought Georgia was really good hand those situations very well. You know, hit two big three's
that really gave us some separation. You know, everybody all that, you know, everybody stepped up and did something.
Clara Strack had a double double from the middle fourteen and four team Georgia Aymore outstanding sixteen points, nine assists. She did have six turnovers, but played all forty minutes and as you might expect, vital in Kentucky turning defense into offense.
I remember in the third quarter Tiani was, you know, when you put in a situation where you're failing, it's hard to place all a defense. And I think that she let one go when she was so down on herself, and she she said, like my bad, and we're like, no, like it's our bad because we have to be better in the gaps.
We have to be better in rotation.
So we know that one on one matchups there they're tough, Like you know me a good one on one defender role, they're hard to come by. So we really understand that as a team effort.
Yeah, and it paid off as Kentucky comes back. It's a winover a nationally ranked team and Wildcats go right back to work. It's even tougher now on the road Sunday at Oklahoma, ranked number thirteen. Right now, it's a four o'clock star. Darren Hedricks broadcast begins at three forty five with the pregame show and then the Wildcats and the Sooner. They have played four times, Kentucky winning three, but this is the first time they've played since twenty seventeen.
But again, this is the first time they will play as conference rivals, and this might be the best Oklahoma team that Kentucky will have faced. Up next, a relative of a former NFL official does think the league is rigged. We'll talk about that bottom of the hour. Daryl Bird of the Cats Paws. He's written a book about Travis Perry and Lyon County Sean Woods, The Unforgettable Guard, joins us a little bit later on here on the Big Boone Sider six thirty WLAP Welcome Back coming up in
just a few minutes. Daryl Bird of the Cats Paws would tell us all about his book on Travis Perry and Lion County called Lion Pride. Will also talk about the Wild Kats in the Arkansas game. Daryl was at both the Vandy and the Tennessee games, but we'll talk first about his book because he started doing the stories and reporting on and just getting to know the Lion County community all during their run to the Sweet sixteen championship last year. So now he's got a book out
and I can't wait to read it. You know that the Super Bowl coming up with the Chiefs and the Eagles, and there are people out there who believe the NFL is rigged. We talked about this the other day because it just seems like things always go Kansas City's way.
Dean Blandino, who is the Fox TV rules analyst now former senior vice president of Officiating for the NFL, he was on a podcast the other day and he revealed the fact that his own brother believes the league is rigged, and his brother is convinced that Blandino signed an NDA non disclosure agreement when he left the league office, stating that he can't tell anybody that it is rigged. He was talking on the Sirius X and Mad Dog Sports show.
He said, we grew up in the same household. By the way, he said, I told him there's no conspiracy. There's too many variable and that's exactly what I've been saying all along. But Blendino said it would be the hardest sport to rig. He said, when you think about football with seven different officials to say, okay, I'm going to rig this game, or as he says, the game
is rigged from the league office right down. The officials are just trying to get it right, he said, And again I'll reiterate, we know that Tim Donaghy, an NBA official, wasn't rigging games, but he was helping to fix games by seeing to it that teams either did or did not reach their point spread. That's where the gambling is done. That's where the money's made point spread over and under.
And one basketball official can do that. Now, in a similar situation in football, if you are let's say you're the line judge and you need a team to not cover, and you have the opportunity or not to call a touchdown a touchdown, maybe you raise your hands, maybe you don't, but that doesn't mean one of your compadres won't as well. You see that all the time, more than one official signaling touchdown. It rarely, if ever, comes down to one official on a scoring play. It does come down to
one official on things like holding or pass interference. But to say the league is rigged, if you want to believe, you know that that an official here or there might be doing things he shouldn't be doing, or she okay, But to say the league is rigged to seat to it that Kansas City wins is ridiculous. And it's just as ridiculous I'll go back to the time when really it's been both because Kentucky fans, like all fans, get paranoid.
But there was a stretch several years ago, probably almost twenty years ago, where UK football suffered some weird losses with two many penalty calls or whatever, and I kept tearing people saying, well, the league doesn't want Kentucky to win. Roy Kramer, the commissioner, make sure Kentucky doesn't win. I heard that one more than once, and I checked it out. Roy Kramer at the time was making six hundred thousand dollars a year as the commissioner of the Southeastern Conference,
and of course I had a golden parachute. He was on the tail end of his career, so I had a hard time believing that Roy Kramer would a risk prison time at his age. B give up that cushy salary and C give up that golden parachute to make
sure Kentucky doesn't go to the independence ball. Come on and I remember one week in the middle of it all, Tom Leach did the math and he said, if they really want to fix games, because every time a team made a ball game, the league got money and every team in the league program in the league got a share, he said, if they want to make sure that the league makes more money, they'll fix games to make sure Kentucky gets in two enough wins to get to a
ball game. And South Carolina at the same time was on the verge of getting to a ball game, which was rare at the time for South Carolina. So that's just how ridiculous it was. But I thought it was interesting that Blandino spoke out on Sirius XM. You know, and it also reminds you of you know, the fans who believe that the NCAA tournament is stacked against Kentucky, that officials at the behest of the NCAAA quote that big,
mysterious monolith, that nobody understands how it works. They want to make sure Kentucky either doesn't get in or doesn't win, forgetting about the fact that when it comes to college basketball, the very thing that makes you, as a Kentucky fan proud to be a Wildcat to be a Kentucky fan.
The enormity of Kentucky basketball is exactly why. If you're gonna screw around with things as the group that runs the NCAA Tournament, including the TV people, you want Kentucky in the tournament and alive as long as it's feasibly possible, because it brings eyeballs. It brings ratings. All the big
name brands. Do you go back to the Final Four when George Mason and UCLA and Florida and I can't remember who the fourth one was when they were in it with tiny fan but even Florida Basketball, for all the great things Billy Donovan did, never really pulled much of an audience. The ratings for that Final Four were the worst in the history of the Final Four. It's the brand names that bring the eyeballs. North Carolina is
not going to get in the tournament this year. Probably that's gonna hurt ratings because even if you're not a North Carolina fan, people tune in to watch North caare Carolina, and you better believe they tune in to watch Kentucky. Do they tune into see you hoping they might lose? Maybe, but they tune in, don't matter why that brings the eyeballs, that brings the ratings, that brings the money. Not instantly, of course, it's all applied to the following year when
they go out and sell advertising. So yeah, game like, yeah, all that stuff's all about money. But remember, as I said the other day, and there is a story out there right now out of Las Vegas, that there's an investigation going on right now about unusual betting patterns surrounding the play of NBA player Terry Rozier in twenty twenty three.
Unusual betting patterns. He was with the Charlotte Hornets back then, and that's part of the same probe that led to a lifetime ban of John tay Porter, who had been with the Raptors. NBA confirmed this on Thursday. The Wall Street Journal first reported it rose he's still playing, he's with the Heat, but there is an investigation because of the betting patterns. And the people out in the desert keep an eye out such things, and they police the matters.
Not the FBI. They don't get they don't jump intil later, and certainly not the NCAA. Again, that was one of the dumbest things i'd ever heard the NCAA should be investigating point shaving. Please leave it to the experts. And those are the guys and gals out in Vegas. Just the thought. As we head into Super Bowl Week, the hype begins this weekend. Daryl Bird next here on six
thirty Welcome back to the Big Moonsider. Joining us now is the editor of The Cat's Balls, a long time friend of the show, Darryl Bird, who covered both the road games Vandy and ut So he spent a lot of time in Tennessee over the last couple of weeks. But I want to talk for Darryl, and we have talked before about Travis Perry and Lyon County because we spoke Daryl after the Sweet Sixteen and when Travis Perry
sign and all that. You've become kind of the Travis Perry expert on the UK bet and now you've got a book out there about the Lion County. I don't know, would you consider that a Cinderella story. It's a tiny school, but boy, what a great team.
Yeah, what a great team. You're right, you have the ultimate Cinderella story. To think that three best friends from kindergarten on in far western Kentucky and a school with two hundred and seventy five students could grow up and win the state tournament. And yeah, definitely sendery. I had them At one point, I said, I'm I got curious. I called the ad to Lion County. I said, just for me, how many boys in the senior class?
Yeah?
This year?
Thirty seven? Wow, I about fell over.
Are you kidding?
Thirty seven boys?
That is so cool. It's called Lion Pride. Oh yeah, yeah, but it's called Lion Pride Ohio n And of course it I don't think the story starts with the state championship in March twenty third, as you said, It starts so many years prior to that, doesn't.
It started in kindergarten. It's when they all started in kindergarten. All three came together officially in the second grade on some teeny tiny little travel team that was probably hilarious to see. But yeah, that's that's it follows. The story follows from their first meeting kindergarten all the way through
the championship at Reparino last year. And you and I talked the last time, Yeah, and it was just pure dumb luck on my part that I needed a story for the basketball year book two years ago, so I went down there that summer to do a feature on Travis Perry for the high school section. You just broke in King Kelly's record and I wasn't there fifteen minutes, and I'm like, oh, my goodness, this is so much
bigger than Travis Perry and some record. And you just the more you went around town, You're like, this place is consumed in a very good way. They are consumed
with this basketball team. And ended up just following it and then going to Whalen and then here they go, as this state would have it, UK gets knocked out by Oakland in Pittsburgh and I make it back in time to cover the Final four and the championship of the Sweet sixteen, and of course after that, I was like, oh, I got to go to the celebration the next day
at Eddie Well. I got to go to the high school the banquet at the end of view and ended up making four or five trips down and I said, this has to be I've always wanted to write a book, and this seemed like the perfect time to make a run at it.
Really, this is your first Yes, Wow.
I've written. I told somebody I've probably written enough to pull a library. Yeah, never have written a book. And it is the hardest thing you will ever matchine, It is so hard to do, and like, where do you start?
How do you do it? Justice?
Oh my gosh, yeah, drive you crazy, and you work on it and you've got your real job and you go back and it's like, wow, I haven't been on in the story in three weeks.
I gotta yeah.
Yeah, it was. It was worthy.
But at least with this story, there's a built in timeline, as you said, starting with whatever year they were in second grade. And the story's so happening with Travis at UK of course, but we're not supposed to root for teams when we cover events, right, But who could blame you for root? Like hell for Lion County and a Sweet sixteen.
What a story, and it has touched so many people. I've heard people who did not know Lion County existed but loved it because of the personal stories and also because how many of us out there can relate to I went to a small county school. We never had a prayer getting out of the district, in getting to the state and I mean it's like everybody just jumped on those coattails and rode along with them for the fun.
Yeah.
I remember asking the kids that after they on the tournament, I said, you, do you have any idea how many people are celebrating with you right now? How many people went to small county schools who never got clothes, who are just rejoicing with you? And I think to a degree they did. But Ryan Perry was sitting up, their coach was sitting over. He's just got a big smile.
We know, we know.
Yeah, in Lion County, is it not the smallest county in the state.
I don't know that.
There's only eight thousands.
It's very small. They couldn't they could have brought everybody out of Eddyville not filled the lower bullet breenda that night for the championship.
Well, my friend Kirk Child's coach there, and that's when I first really became aware of Lion County. Went on to coach at Marshall County and Henry Clay, two of the big schools. But and now everybody knows about Lyon.
County and I got it just it just fell into place. So for I mean, I remember talking to you and you you were getting talking to how I had the pleasure or the the good fortune to kind of come full circle. Went down there to do a story on Travis and ended up following it all the way through to its conclusion, just the way it worked. But the personal stories are Travis, You've got the whole dynamic of growing up playing for your dad, which has its own
interesting dynamics. Jackie Reddick, the point guard who's at Florida Gulf Coast his father passed away from cancer, was a freshman, and how that whole team and community kind of wrapped around him and protected him during that. And then Brady's Shoulders, who's doing really well at Mercer. He started after his third game, I think, and I said, wait a minute, what his grandfather. There's a giant coal miner statue in Princeton,
Kentucky's providence. It's Bray's grandfather. Wow, Like you've got to be kidding me. Got to dive into that whole the family dynamic theory. Worked in the Coolema for forty three years and he was at every game Lyon County played. But he got cancer. He died right before the start of the champions Law. Yeah, Yeah, that's a heartbreaker.
Yeah. You know, there's so many very cool, so many peripheral stories. You know, there's an expression this stuff rights itself. Well, no it doesn't. It's a lot of work. But Darryl put into the book Lion Pride. We're talking with Darryl
Bird of the Cat's Balls. And I remember when I first started hearing about Travis Perry and his stats, his numbers, and you know, and this is no disrespect, I immediately thought about Irvin's step And Irvin was the kid at Phelps who averaged fifty a game and was making national headlines. And you know it was a great shooter, a great score, not the greatest player, but he was in a situation his brother was coaching him, and honestly, that's what they needed from him in order to try to win games.
Uh.
And I know Lion County did too, But I'm watching Lion County in the state tournament and Travis was not as much a facilitator as he was a scorer because they needed him to score, but he did help other guys score. And we're seeing that now at Kentucky. People I think were surprised to hear Mark Pope describe him as a point guard, you know what I mean?
Yes, yeah, because he didn't officially play the point at Lyon, but yes, he was heavily involved in that.
Yeah. Did you think about that, Like, here's a kid playing for his dad, score all these points. Dad wants his kid to score all these points, and yet that's honestly what was best for the team, right.
Yeah.
Before I ever went down there, you do get You've heard so many of these scores, a lot of them come out of the Eastern Kentucky Mountains. Get there fifty a game and you get down there and you realize it's just about scoring, and the team's not that good and they do what they can, but they're just never going to get very far out of the postseason. Yeah, and you get down there and it's like, oh, they're good. They're really good in a lot of a lot of
different ways. These How do you endo a three D one scholarship out of a school with two hundred and eighty five.
Kids and they knew how to play?
It's yeah, and they have been doing it from the beginning. They traveled all over the place. And I remember talking to Ryan one boy, and he said, for us as long as they played well, we can care. It was never about chasing trophies on an a U circuit. Did we get a little better, he said, well, no matter
what tournament we go to. Once they got a little older, he said, I requested the hardest pool that they had, really because I wanted they wanted to push them to get better, and didn't matter if they won one, loss or drawl, you know, just just get better because of the level of the competition. And it sure paid off, no doubt.
In the synopsis of the book that's on Amazon where you can find it, by the Way Lion Pride, Yo and Pride, the coach player relationship of the Perrys is described as tricky without giving away the store, how tricky did it get?
Trickiest parts were when he Travis said, when he was middle school, which is you know, that's when most kids are not head and he said, he said, when you're young, you're professor, You're trying to do your best. Things aren't going your way. You get mad, you get angry. Who are you going to take it out? You give it to your dad? He said. The problem is I was giving it to my dad during the game, and I take some stupid shot. He'd throw that advisor across the
floor and I'd have it was my job. I had to walk over, pick up the visor, walk it over, hand it to him, and basically apologize to get back out there. And he said this. I thought this struck with me pretty good. He said, you know, I did that over and over and over, and finally, when I'm sitting down there at the end of the bench, I'm realizing this ain't gonna work. I clawed Ryan Perry for said, I don't care how good you are, you're not going
to follow this. Go sit down there at the end and we'll just play with what we got.
Yeah.
And he did that more than once. And Travis said, you know, by the time senior year, it just took a look. I look, I take a shot and look over the bench, and I knew by his expression, whether good or bad.
Yeah.
Yeah, but that.
Whole dynamic, he said, the hardest it said. It's in Travis told me. He said, it's so unfair in high school, no matter which team it is, if they lost the game, it's the coach's fault. It's always the coach's fault. And he said, I'm out there, I can have a say in this. So I am trying as hard as I can to make sure we don't lose A because they won't blame he said, because they won't blame my dad and B so I don't have to ride home in the car with Dad after the loss.
Oh man, you know, I'm flashing back on stories you hear about guys who played for their dads, and you know, when they get home, he's still got to take out the trash, no matter how big a story of a star they are. And I remember I was interviewing Corey Edmund, who is a strength and conditioning coach at Kentucky and the father of Leah Edmund, who arguably is the best
player in the history of the UK volleyball program. And you know, and I was talking to him about his daughter and I said something about her being a great athlete, and he interrupted me. She is not a great athlete, you know, And he starts talking about all the things she needed. This is before she had graduated. I thinks she needed to work on this and that I'm thinking, Man, that's got to be tough. And he she wasn't even playing for dad, but he was her strength and conditioning coach.
So dads see things differently, don't they.
Yeah, But it was a little different with Travis and Ryan because Ryan said if Travis didn't have a good game, he never said a word. Because Travis would go out to the garage at one o'clock in the morning shooting wow, one two o'clock after especially after a loss. He's the we all know how competitive once you get to hear some of the coolest backstories. Two things with Travis that
really stuck out to me about his competitiveness. And I think Ryan said in sixth grade he took over as the middle school coach, he said, and we decided, or I decided, we're going to jump rope for conditioning, he said. And Travis could not jump rope to save his life, he said. He he tripped everybody. He could about three, any trip, get about three, any trip. Couldn't do it,
he said. So they're home, he said, and I'm he said, I'm like, what is that three o'clock in the morning, Travis is out in the driveway jumping rope.
Wow.
He said.
By the next day at school, he could out jump, He could jump rope better than.
Anybody on the team.
By the morning that's how competitive. He said, he just could not tolerate not being able to jump rope. That that's what he did. Yeah, isn't that amazing? Yet, there's all kinds there's all kinds of stories like that.
We'll take a break. We're talking with Darryl Bird of the Cats Paws. He has written a book about not just Travis Perry, what about Lion County's run to the Sweet sixteen championship called Lion Pride, and Darrel's been busy covering the Cats. We'll talk about that on the other side of the break. Here, Welcome back to the Big Moonsider coming up tomorrow. It's UK Arkansas. But I wanted to talk to Darryl about both the Vandy and the Knoxville trips you made. I've made many of them, as
you know, so have you through your career. The Vandy game was just I felt like a bit of an aberration for this Kentucky team. But I am still amazed how they got out of Knoxville with a win. Tennessee I think helped by continually jacking up threes. It's just the way Pope cobbled that game plan together. I thought was maybe the most impressive win of the year, no doubt.
I was stunned. I went down there where fully believing they're.
Losing this game.
Yeah, you just on the very surface, you cannot take away Lamont Butler. When you have to play against the Kayziegler, he's gonna have he's gonna have somebody like we were laughing for the game. He's gonna have a double double twenty assistant, twenty steels. He's just he's gonna go nuts on you if you don't have Lamant to slow him down. And you know, right at the very beginning, oh smart move, Mark, he put Jackson Robinson on him, put a tall player
on him to make it difficult. Yeah, that there's no you take him away. You take Afo Andrew Car away. I mean I wrote about a little bit. You started with nine veterans, now you got six, got six veterans and three freshmen. And you went down there into Tennessee and everybody was here around here was like, oh my gosh, you case lost to in a row. So had Tennessee. Tennessee desperately needed to win that game.
Home.
You said you're going home. They don't have Butler and car Yeah, this could be a route and they just I wasn't. I was impressed and as much impressed late in the game because they kept building out to like a seven eight point lead in Tennessee would cut it back. They get out Tennessee and there was one point where they got it down to three. It was deafening in there. It was, I know, rupfereno big Nation loves to you know, look at us inside ruffle kind of loud it is.
It was that loud you couldn't hear yourself thinking they're trying to come up full court press being put on. They're trying to hang on her dear life at the end, and they handled it. I was I was stunned and pressed and stunned.
At that point when it was at its loudest, didn't somebody throw in a three.
Something like that, something like that.
They responded, Yeah, I know, Trent Noah's was big, and Kobe Brays all Kobe's were, oh, yeah, we're huge.
But yeah.
Mark's strategy was just he was dead on put Jackson and Jackson was I don't know if he showed on TV whole about the last ten minutes. He was cramping every time there was a break. He's stretching as much as he can. He was just wearing out, trying to hang with They.
Showed that when he was about to shoot free throws. Yeah, they didn't mention, but they said, yeah, he's he's trying to, you know, stay a whole.
And he was absolutely and that and there was no talk of like I look up and like Kennessey's taking forty three.
It's what they done.
Yeah, and I heard Coach Pope and Rick Barnes both say the same thing. Mark basically said, yeah, but we we purposely wanted some of those guys taking it. Basically we wanted those guys. And Rick Barnes heard on his radio show when I walk back out, he's talking about, Yeah, we basically we had the wrong guys taking the shots and they were there. So there was a smart move on Mark. And then two let Amari bring the ball up again?
Oh yeah, yeah, that.
Was the Yeah, you don't have Laman who's going to bring it up for you. Let's Tennessee's Center see if he can flow down the prail.
Did that remind you at all because it should in me if Sam Bowie bringing the ball up the floor back in the day, Yeah.
I hadn't thought about it, but yeah I did, now that you mention it.
Yeah, and especially against Georgetown in the final four and eighty four, because I remember thinking, I don't think Kentucky can be Georgetown, because I don't know that they can handle the pressure of the guards bringing the ball off the floor. I was there in Seattle. You might have been, and the first time Bowie brought the ball up the floor, I said, of course, Sam brings the ball up and
there's you in waiting on him at half cor lighting. Okay, I'll cover you right here, you know, And the same thing happens in Knoxville, didn't it.
Yeah, it was a very very smart move.
Yeah, very unoppressed.
They they only had nine players that they got contribution.
Yeah, I had to have it.
And yeah, that was that was impressive. And because I freely admit I did not see it, coming out with trouble well and bringing circle three game, losing Street, coming to Arkan flo.
And bringing in full circle. Uh, Travis played well, and so did Trent know it may be more so than Travis did.
Trent played.
Yeah, Trent seems to be when you're watching him on the court, Trent seems to be the most comfortable. Yeah, and his skin out there and I did ask market won on after the Tennessee game. So basically, you know, what's the deal. Trent hadn't played since New Year's Eve and now he's played. Of course, part of Andrew Carlough. You don't see trading at six to eleven for a six six as being that's why he's in the game now.
But he did get his little you know, well, next man up right, and he played, He did all right, evand and he did really well. Knoxville played very well.
Well you saw him play in the Sweet sixteen or you're there covering Travis Perry but you couldn't help. But notice obviously Trent Noah and you know Trent was a physical force.
They are they are very different players, Travis and Trent. You know they've known each other forever the roommates the UK. Now they are different players, and that's you know, you think, why is Trent Noah going in for Andrew Carr's absence Because he's sixty six and he can rebound and he's physical, yes, but he can't fill it up. He went off in the Sweet sixteen, that miracle come back, and then they had and scored. I think seventeen to the last twenty
five the force Overton right. He can go all from three just as easily as rights Travis kan He is Darryl bird Sit here and think, Wow, Arkansas didn't Bird Calbury didn't even with in his direction of a scholarship.
Wo.
No, he is Darryl Birdy is the author of Lion Pride. You can find it on Amazon and in other bookstores. We buy your favorite books, Add that to your library and learn about Travis Perry and Lion County High School's run to the Sweet sixteenth title. Thank you, sir. We will see you at the ball game.
That's gonna be fun.
Up next hour number two, when we will relive the highlights of Kentucky Tennessee. But first we'll talk but unforgetable guard Sean Woods. We usually speak with him on Wednesdays, but we were bumped by the coaches show lineup, So we will chat with Sean about what he saw down in Knoxville, what he expects coming up when John Keller Perry steps into Upperna tomorrow night. That's all I have you on a big one side or six point thirty wlapager. Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider and joining us.
Now it's a Friday, but we usually talked to Sean Woods on Wednesday the Unforgettable Guard, But of course we were bumped by the Coaches Show. So we will talk with Sean about that big win over Tennessee. And there's a game tomorrow somebody's coming back to town. But Sean, let me start with that game. And you and I always talk about games through the eyes the prism of the point guard, and you, of course were one on the nation's best at Kentucky. Here's a game, Sean, we're
going into this one. They didn't have one. Basically, they didn't have any experience. They had Travis Perry, and there were times when Amari Williams is bringing a ball up the floor, Jackson Robinson's playing the point when that game was unfolding. Were you sitting there amazed given the fact that it's all you've played there, and they've got a terrific point guard of their own, Tennessee does, and Kentucky's without their number one floor general and number two floora general.
What was your reaction?
Well, first of all, I thought that was a great strategy of relieving pressure, letting the Mary Williams bring the basketball up the court back in the day when I left, when Travis was having problems getting the ball up the court because he's playing against bigger guard. Yeah, Coach Patino would do that. He would have somebody else bring the ball up to relieve the pressure from Travis on Travis, and then once you got into the half court, now
you ran your stuff. So you know, the great, great move by Mark Pope of doing that to relieve some of the pressure when he didn't have a point guard per se. But man, you know, just the relentlessness and the fortitude of these guys knowing that they were, you know, behind the eight ball a little bit from a personnel standpoint, And to go into Tennessee, the number one team in the conference or another top team in the conference, one of the top teams, and get a win on the road,
that's kudos for Coach Pope, his staff and the Wildcats. Man, Now that that was probably to me, that may have been the most impressive win under the circumstances that they've had all season.
Wow. Well again, you've played down there, and I was there in Knoxville when you guys played. But I'm having a hard time remembering while back, but I know that it wasn't people hanging from the rafters to see the balls play you got or was it? What do you remember about going into Knoxville, Well, I'll tell you what.
It has always been a hard place to play.
You know.
It was never not packed for sure, and you know, but we would have our our chef fans there also, but it was always a hard place to play. I mean, we were playing against one of the most prolific scorers in college basketball at the time in Allen Houston.
Yeah.
So, and they got us real good our senior year, and then we were able to get them back, you know, and they came back in for Senior Night. Unfortunately I didn't get to finish the gay yet, but uh, we were back. But they were good, you know. And you know, back then, just like now, they're saying the SEC's better than ever. But every team in the SEC had first round draft picks and there was never a tough easy out. I don't care if you played Vanderbilt. At Vanderbilt, you know,
they were Todd millhilland Bruce Anglin. I mean, those guys were just tough to beat. At Vanderbilt, so the league has never been a slouch. I don't know why people saying that it's better than ever. I just think that it's just as good. And it's because these one and Dons and things like that, you kind of put a more of a stamp on it. But you know, SEC basketball has always been great. You know, back then we
were getting five to six. They're saying it's gonna be teen because of Vanderbilt, old Mississippi State, but still old miss and Mississippi State was still a hard, a tough out, especially on the roads.
Yea, if there were I just think top to bottom sean, it's never been as tough. I think, I think the top half of the league back when you played, especially on the road, yeah, brutal. But now, man, everybody's pouring money into scheduling, into facility, into coaching staffs, and surely you can appreciate that now you've never you know, broken the bank, and some of the coaching staffs you've made. But some of these coaches, man, they're entrepreneurs now and
their assistant are getting crazy money. It's never been like that.
No, you're right about that, you know, And uh, it's glorified now. Oh yeah, you know, there's more promotion as far as basketball is concerning the SEC. And that's what's making it different too. You know, look at old missed facilities. Now they were the worst in the conference and now they're pretty good. They're pumping money into it and you
see the results. Look at Mississippi State, No, and they're also going to going out and getting great coaches, uh with with with a lot of experience, especially from the recruiting situation.
From the recruiting situation.
By the way, I just pulled up the box score from that game with Tennessee to win. They got you pretty good down in Knoxville. Allen Houston got thirty six. They put Tennessee put five guys in double figures, scored eighty eight points on Senior Night, But you guys scored ninety nine. Jamal had thirty. Sean Woods played twelve minutes, folks, and nothing on the stat line but zeros except Sean You had six assists in twelve minutes. How the hell did you do that?
Well?
My goal was Coach Ertino, and that I got together because I wanted to break the single game assist record. Ah, and that's all I was doing. I didn't even look at the basket. I was just passing that thing and I was on my way too. Yep, And unfortunately Jay Price and I got into a little little tango and both of us got ejected.
Yeah yeah, he only paid played eighteen minutes. He didn't score so anyhow, But back to the matter at hand, you had sec basketball tough then. So they go into Knoxville and Tennessee. I guess falling by in Kentucky was hot hitting three pointers. Were you surprised at Rick Barnes didn't do anything that? I mean, there were four they launched forty five threes, and it killed him. I know they all think a good shooter knows the next one's
going in. But that's what really allowed Kentucky to ease away and win that game.
I really think too. Also from that point guard, even though he came back, I don't think he was He was one hundred percent and he's the guy who he's the straw who stirs their coffee. He stopped penetrating, you know, he started selling for jump shots because he was scared to stop on that leg like he normally does, going up strong and finishing. So I thought that was a major key in the game.
Off of That's a good point, and eventually Zigler filed out. He did have six assists, but only thirteen points five of eighteen shooting in thirty five minutes and just had the one throat, just had the one turnover me. That's a great point. He was playing on a damaged leg, one that he was probably favoring anyway, having dealt with a major knee injury before. So it all comes back to the point guards, doesn't it.
That's right, and you know they didn't have one. I mean, he was out there, but he wasn't himself, and you know that's what made them settle. And I can see it on Coach Barrs's face. He had no penetration to bad never really infiltrated the paint. And when you don't get paint touches, you know, nine times out of ten your field goals is not gonna be very good.
Kentucky, not just without Butler and Kirk criesa once again, but without Andrew Carr And yeah, I knew that they played him, but after ninety seconds he was done. I really thought that as much as anything would keep Kentucky from winning. But somehow, some way, I guess Brandon Garrison had some decent minutes, not statistically, but Almanor came through. Colin Chandler played well the freshman. Everything came together and Trent and Noah. It was pretty impressive.
Like I said before, it was probably one of the most impressive wins that they've had all year, considering the circumstances that they were under. As far as Angel.
Was concerned, Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. It sets things up interesting an interesting way because for one thing, Kentucky fans, I think figured on a win at Vandy, figured on the loss at Tennessee. They flipped the script. But now they go into Saturday's game with Arkansas. We'll talk about that on the other side of the break with Shawn Wood's The Unforgettable Guard. Here on six point thirty WLAP. Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. We're
talking with the Unforgettable Guard, Shawn Woods. As Jersey hangs in the rafters of rup Sean, You've been a head coach at a number of places. I wonder at the level where you were coaching, did you ever hear Booze rain down on you when you were introducing an arena? Oh?
No, doubt about it. I mean the schools I was that, you know, Southern and Gramley one of the biggest rivalries and all the college sports. Yeah, you know you got that one. You know, you go to Tech the South and plus everywhere I've been we were the top one of the top teams in the league.
So you know, it was always.
A big to do and and uh when our teams came into somebody else's place. So yeah, that's that's that's that's yeah, I'm used to that.
I'm so do you think John Caliperrys, this is going to be a different brand of booing though, isn't it.
Listen, it's not what it's the way he left is how I'm looking at this more so than you know. We are at Kentucky and we got to appreciate this man won a national championship for us. You know, he's he's made history for us. He's done probably one of the most miraculous jobs, uh, in all of college basketball as far as being a college basketball coach for us. While he was here, he became a Hall of Fame inductee while he was our coach. You know, he's won
a national championship as our coach. He's one of the first to get a lifetime contract, which I don't understand, but as our coach, and he set the standard as far as getting the best. I mean, we've always been known to getting the top players in the country McDonald all Americans, but he took it to another level. He he modernized Kentucky basketball to what it is today. And we got to be thankful for that, you know what I mean. Now how he left, you know, the last
few seasons. That's the only thing that that's the one of the biggest knocks has been being a coach anywhere is staying too long, you know, and and sooner or later people forget, you know, the things that you did. And first of all, you make them spoil. You get them spoiled. And then when they're not getting that, you know, they turned on you a little bit. And you know that's unfortunate in our profession, but as part of our profession.
But man, you can't knot you know what John cali Perry did because he you know, during his time, we were still one most relevant college basketball program in America.
You played on at a time when the Kentucky Arkansas Series was about to become the really cool rivalry in the SEC, if not the country with Nolan Richardson, I don't consider Arkansas a rival right now. Yes, it's a conference rival, but it's not like it used to be. And people, well he went to our archs Ruight, No he did not. He did go within the league, that's true. But I mean, do you consider Arkansas that way? I still think Louisville, Tennessee And people like to say.
Dude, Louisville, right, Costatino went to Louisville. Okay, So now John Caliperry goes to Arkansas. Well, it's not about going to Arkansas. It's John Caliperry, right, So we're going to be in rival with John Caliperry more so than being in a rival with the institution of the University of Arkansas.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's how this thing is gonna work planning out. It's not about you know, history and this and that. It's about and it's so new that it's burning hot, it's flaming and because of who it is as a coach.
Yeah, you're right. How surprised are you assuming you are that Arkansas has struggled the way it has given the recruits he took there given the kids from Kentucky you transferred there starting with a point guard DJ Wagner. But Big Z and boy du Sierro looks incredible this year. But they have been probably the biggest surprise in a disappointing way in the sec.
I'm I'm I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised. I don't think his team's very good. I'm gonna be honest with you. From a talent standpoint, I don't think Z is the answer. You know, for his size, he doesn't rebound to the find like he needs to. I think he gives up on a lot of plays. He's not a guy that you make him the main stay and expect to have
miraculous results. So from that standpoint, I am not surprised, you know, I just think from a personnel standpoint, he's not big enough inside, I don't think he can compete on the glass like he would like. And you know he had he was. He's really depending on a freshman point guard again, and that wasn't getting him too far. And unfortunately Boogiey Flans hurt. But when he lost that kid, you know, it may have walked him up up a
little bit because they won right after that. Yeah, you know, let's let's not get it twisted now, John Caliperri can coach. I mean, you don't become a Hall of Famer now. I just think he kind of lost the sizzle a little bit. I think that, you know, while his last few years here, you know, it wasn't about coaching, I think he got away from what got him here and
what got him to the success that he's had. And you know, sometimes people get humbled and you know, like I said before, this this things, you know, it's different, it's evolving, and it's a new way to do with things. And I think right now, you know, he's trying to play catch up now and trying to figure out how he can, you know, get it back and get that mojo back that he had years ago.
I think people forget that the first of all. They forget some people forget the glory years he had here, his first six years minus see of course, you know Neurlans Noel, that was a difficult injury and they'd never recovered. But his best team, Sean and you know this as a you're probably your best teams were combinations of that young talent and veterans. Yeah, and you think about the Harrison Twins came back that made that twenty fifteen team
so powerful. His first couple teams at Kentucky, that first team he had, which I still think was his best uh at Patrick Patterson and a couple other Vets along with Wall and Cousins and Bledsoe, And I felt like he kind of got away from that for one reason or another. Do you remember it that way?
Well, I wasn't around as much, you know what I'm saying, But I can just tell. But you know, if every team is different, no matter the personnel and how talented you are, and you're not gonna win a national championship every year, but he was in the mix every year, and that's all you can ask for. And then you got to have a little luck in the NCAA tournment here and there. And he will always put himself in a position where he had a chance. Except for the
last few years, I thought recruiting went down. I thought he settled for some guys that wasn't, you know, capable of getting a job done. And I think that's where it left. You know, Then he lost some key staff members, you know, and all that stuff plays the part and right now, I think he's just searching. And you know, when you have bad seasons as a coach, you know you're only as good as your assistant, and you need great assistance. I don't care who how good you are.
And sometimes that happens. You know what I'm saying, You ain't you don't have that same support. You know, you don't have that same backing. And I think that that happened with coach Bettino too, his latter years at Louisville, not having guys that he could trust you, and you see what happens, Things fall through the crack.
But you know, I think it's interesting you say that because I'm sure you heard well, maybe you have or not again you've you were away and came back, But I kept carrying that Cali Perry who doesn't listen to his assistance. Have you ever heard that?
I've heard that a lot. I've heard that a whole bunch. And sometimes, you know, like I tell people all the time, John Caliperry is human, right, And sometimes you know, just because he's a coach that he tries to tell players to not dwell in your success. I think he dwelled in his success.
Huh, interesting. Yeah, you're right, do as I say, not as I do. That means a hot sometimes got a few minutes left with Sean Woods, the unforgettable guard Caliperry coming to town with Arkansas tomorrow night, a bug all else, Kentucky needs to obviously win this game Sean and protect the home court from here on, right, Yeah, they.
Have to in order to stay, you know, have a chance to stay at top of the league. You got to win all your games at home because you got some a few tough ones on the road that's coming up. So you got to make sure that you take care of business and rut.
Yeah, as I let you go. I went and looked up the roster of that twenty fifteen team that was nearly perfect. Yeah, they had Karl Anthony Towns, they had Booker on the bench, they had Uless Tree Lyles. But you know, Dacary Johnson was a sophomore, Marcus Lee sophomore. Who else was on that team? The Harrison Twins, And in this day and age, those are veterans.
Right, no doubt about it.
And then when you mix it all together with a freshman, that was a team that could have and maybe should have made history. So yeah, it takes a mix now, not just the one and done. But that's easier said than done in this day and age, isn't it.
You are exactly right, I mean, and look at the years from twenty fifteen on the teams that won the national championship. Yep, yep, you know, look at Virginia that that that's the prime example of not having a bunch of two roh guys, just had some a mixture of veterans and players that had gone through the you know, the system, and by the time they got this senior year, they were really good.
Yeah yeah, well, I mean Villanova, the teams and national titlers for Nova exactly were exactly were a good mix and it's all that balancing act. Now, Sean Woods, the Unforgettable Guard, joins us every week. His jersey hangs in the rafters. Are up, coach, Thanks so much, and enjoy your.
Weekend, okay, Dick, you too, buddy.
And up next we relive the highlights of Kentucky, Tennessee as we head into the weekend here on six thirty WLAP. Welcome back to the Big Moon Cider. So it's Kentucky Arkansas tomorrow night. We all know that Wildcats coming off a huge win down in Knoxville short handed. But boy did the Wildcats hit their shots, especially when they needed
to most including free throws. Not great at the free throw line, but Oway nailed a couple with the game on the line literally and Kentucky escapes Knoxville with yet another win. So I thought going into the weekend, we would relive the highlights from the UK Radio network as Tom Leach and Jack Gibbons called the action, the Cats and the Balls. Kentucky winning for a third straight year down in Knoxville.
Down the right side, puts it between his legs, turns his back to Ziegler, gets Ray up open, three ball in the air.
It's good.
Pass to the top to Williams, gives it to Holland or a right back to Williams, over to Robinson, less side, three god two threes for Kentucky. Robinson drives it up the right side, gets it to the trailer Williams. Robinson gets it back, it curls into the circle, steps back. He made two of them already up deep on the right side. Williams dribbles over to the left, goes down the lane, hooks it out to the right corner. Almon Or wide open.
Yes, well, that is excellently executed.
Our fence.
It's between his legs, goes to his right down the lane with a runner off the glass. It's good boy, just beats the clock defense set.
Williams fires to Robinson left wing. Three in the air.
Good.
Finally found a way to get open again.
Baseline fires a diagonal pass to the left wing.
Almonor's three is good again. Penetration and three no rebounded by Robinson. Faith slides right eighteen foot or gone across the Brea. Brandon feeds it over the right corner. Almon Or open three, money boy, They keep leaving them open twenty two Kentucky by four.
Almanor fees it down.
Lower the pick and rolling a dunk by Garrison off the roll.
When they get it count to Garrison.
Brea goes back door, makes the catch and dunkson coming in All right, Baseline and here's almon Or at the top.
Gives it to Braya. Raya penetrates up with a fifteen foot a good out a way by tipping it and getting the rebound cross court pass intercepted by oh Way, drives and dunks it for the lead a huge were passed to oh way, oh wait, driving baseline left, cut off, bounce, pass over to Williams out to almon Or straight away three ball money or Hansley alman Or heaving forward, A couple of crossovers slides to his left, get a shoot a contested three and it bounces in about six to
eleven akpara pray, A couple of crossovers goes by a para gets in deep rap around, feed to Williams. Thanks, happing in just ahead of the shot clock buzzer. Robinson over to Noah, floats at to Williams five to shoot him. Williams backing down to Williams turns jump hook gun nice picking off the left wing goes through the lane of all stock loose and Kentucky comes out with it and Noah may have knocked it loose. Breyer scoops it up over to Robinson, open left, winning for three.
Got it.
I just love how cool, calm and collected Kentucky has been on offense.
Dan's Madison drills it all the way to the right corner, shut his back to Zigler, fall away fifteen foot are good Jackson Robinson with sixteen not left Garrison being manhandled using his arm. Here's Noah straight away.
Three Trent, yes, Trent, don't add away. Young fella jumps up to Perry. Perry he three right side.
Rentals out no good, oh Way rebounds follows. God Robins said, taking the handoff down the lane, puts it up, No tap in by Williams.
But oh Way throws it to Brian has skipped off.
His hands would have picked up by no Honey drives in stores hands up, heads up, right out of his hands.
He's got it back.
He blows by Milicic goes in and dunks it in and hits the deck hard.
He jumps right back.
Sixty eight sixty three Kentucky Williams drives it left, hands it to Breya long three.
That's the way to get it back. That's the way to get it back right now.
Two of five tonight, seventy seven percent on the season coming in.
It's good, little body English there lean across.
Pretty simple. Gotta make.
That he does. We hear a little gold, big blue let that.
Wow, it's getting louder too, God Sansley almond Or waving his.
Arms for more.
Just give me one, baby, Just give me one, two.
Shots away, one dribble. It's in the air, and it's good God, it's in the air, beauty.
You gotta put a little pressure in the back court. Make him use some time off the clock. You don't want to let.
Him throw it long. That's what Kentucky's doing.
You gotta make him use up some time.
Get into the bar. Back to Ziegler.
Ball's knock loose, He picks it up, shoots the three off right wing.
It's no good.
Williams Graham's another rebound, throws it into front court and the Wildcats get a win in Knoxville for the third year.
In a row.
It hadn't happened since two thousand and six. They did it tonight, and they did it shorthanded good and that's gracious.
Jack Gibbons and Tom Leach on the UK Sports Network, and I've said it many many times. Two things. Number One, Jack Gibbons loves to see the Wildcats beat Tennessee. That was the art rival when he grew up. That's the art rival when he was in high school, when he signed to be a Wildcat, when he played for Kentucky, there was no UFL rivalry. They didn't play it was Tennessee. Jack loves to beat the balls. It wasn't easy when he was there because back then at the same time,
Tennessee had Bernie and Ernie. But Kentucky knocks off Tennessee. You could hear the glee in Jack's voice sitting alongside Tom. He loves to see these UK players knock down shots because that's what he did. He was a knockdown shooter. And as he said on my show a week or
two ago, he is an unabashed fan. He said. He credits and appreciates the fact that the network and UK both realize that unlike a lot of people who might have taken over at the job when our friend, the great Mike Pratt passed away, Jack's a fan first and then a broadcaster, never claimed to be a journalist. So he roots unabashedly for those cats, especially when they win a game like that, knocking down shots at the arch rival for him, at any rate, his favorite art rival, Tennessee.
So I hope you enjoyed that, all right. Coming up next, we're going to hear more about a photographer here in town who's terrific. He's done a lot of great sports work, and this is kind of the same but different. It's kind of tough talking about photography on the radio, but you'll know what I'm talking about when we chat with Mark Nielsen. That's next year on six thirty. Welcome back to you. The Big Blue Insider joining us now is a longtime friend and a guy who actually has been
on the show before. It's been a while, but I see Mark Corneilsen's face in the newspaper online, you see his work, You know his work very likely. He is a terrifically talented photographer who has you know, shot dozens and hundreds of ball games. But he's become known as the pre eminent, in my opinion, portrait photographer here in town for a number of reasons. H Mark, welcome back to the show.
First of all, yeah, thanks for having me.
We talked to Mark about some other types of portraits that he has taken, and again you've seen his work. He has shot Kentucky coaches and players. It's the black and white photos that you might see in the paper or the pop up online, really stark contrast, always black and white. You know one thing I also noticed, Mark, do your subjects in those photos ever smile?
Well?
But with the I used to tell my bosses of the Herald Leader because they asked me the same question.
Really, somebody has that magic.
If they have that magic Johnson smile, then you use it all day. But I'd say still, the majority of people who are getting a portrait made are not super comfortable at that moment, So trying to get a smile out of him sometimes is more of a challenge.
Yeah. One of my faves was Colena Azabukie. You took a preseason photo of him, and of course he had that incredible physique and man, his muscles in front of your camera and your life just rippled. But I don't know what you were. Do you remember telling me the story about how he pumped himself up for that photo.
Yeah, well, he when he found out what we were doing, and he saw a quick sample we were doing, and you know, obviously the sample was not him, it was somebody else sitting in. So he saw the potential for the shadows. He broke down, started doing a few push ups, started running around the concourse a few times. So I was you know, they're all a collaboration. You know, you need that, you need everybody involved. And so when they're going that far. I know they're involved.
I think somebody had told him that Chuck Hayes might have looked a little bit better that day.
And there's a lot of banter going on.
For sure, he was not going to be outdone. But one of the reasons we wanted to talk to Mark was because now you've got a new way of doing things, a new style that those We did a TV story on Mark when he was taking those black and whites, because the camera you use was something out of the forties and now you're using a style that goes even older than the forties.
Right, Yeah, we're back.
We're back to the eighteen hundreds now with this new uh, with this new challenge, I'm trying.
To work out what is it called?
What is that?
What it's called wet plate colodean is the technical term, but most people know it by the term of ten type, and it's the way photos were taken all through the Civil War. Every picture you see of Abraham Lincoln was shot this way, although his were a lot time shot on glass. It's the same process they used to shoot them all on glass. But what was happening was the Civil War soldiers were wanting to mail their photos home to their families, and the photos weren't making it because
the glass was breaking before they got home. So a guy in eighteen fifty one figured out how to do it on metal, and that was the way photography was done for about.
The next forty years before film was invented.
Yeah, so when you're watching a movie that's set in that period and they had that big box of a camera and everybody's got a hold perfectly still and they pull the thing off the lens, those were similar kinds of.
Photography, exactly the same.
And sometimes you would even see somebody holding stuff up that would cause an explosion, and that was their version of a flash at the time. Because these are very not light sensitive plates compared to today's cameras and even film. You know, you're used to buy film in different speeds based on where you were shooting, and you started at one hundred and went up to thirty two hundred or more. These plates are one wow, so not a lot of
You need a lot of lights. So people were having to hold still either hold still for a you know, several sometimes up to thirty seconds. Other times you hit him with a flash, which is what I'm doing.
It's a lot more instant.
Yeah. Well, one of the ones you've posted on social media is a great image of Devin Burke's you Can't Catch Her. Let's bring this back to sports, and he's standing in the stadium in uniform, he's got his catcher's gear on, the tools of ignorance and he's just looking out toward the field to his left. And just given the style of this photography, it's it's black and white. I won't say it's harsh, but there's a lot of contrast, and you know, it almost looks like it's a gray
kind of cloudy day. But that's the style, isn't it.
Yeah, I mean these that you know that there's not a lot of latitude as far as exposure and the different tones these things could see back then, yea. And he was actually about a two second picture there, so we knew. And you know, that's looks like it could have been shot in the Bay Bruce era, you know, as far as there really are timeless And that's what
drew me back to it, you know. I just I had somebody tell me at the Lexaban Camera Club once that they loved my work, but that I seem to be going backwards.
And I said, about as quickly as possible.
So why did you pose Devin like that? Because I've told this story before. We did a TV story on you, and at the end of it, you had me sit for a picture, not of this type, but of the previous but the older camera, and we went down to the TV set and I thought, I would, you know, sit at the anchor desk and pose like an idiot? And you had me turn around with my back to the cameras and put my feet up on the railing. And I asked you later, you know, why did you
pose me like that? And you said, I don't remember. You said, because that's you, my personality.
So yeah, go ahead, go ahead, now, go ahead.
I was gonna say, you clearly put a lot of thought into into these poses. Now do you usually make the suggestions or does your subject make suggests? Since how does that work?
You know?
Like I said, it's always a group decision. But a lot of times I'm my wheels start turning as soon as I know that person's coming, especially if I have any familiarity with them, which you know a lot of the athletes, of course I did, but with even normal people, normal people, non athletes, you know that people like ourselves, right, Yeah. You know, while I'm sitting there talking to them and I'm giving them some of the history and telling them things,
I'm watching their mannerisms. I'm seeing what they're doing with their hands with you know, just in general, especially if I don't know them, and sometimes in the middle of our conversation, I'll say, hold it, that's what we're doing right there. You know, they'll just stop and they'll have their hand a certain way, or they'll be looking a certain way because otherwise, like I said, like the small
in front of a camera, people stiffing up. Yeah, and so you know, I've gotten pretty good with the banter myself,
you know. So you're talking them through, You're trying to get them comfortable really quick, because you know, really photography is you're dipping into somebody's life for you know, maybe a half hour probably less, and you got to get that shot and go, especially in the old journalism world where you told you had five minutes with somebody, you know, So trying to read people quickly and get something that really says something about them is what I'm trying to do.
Show off their personality and a lot of times, those fake smiles, aren't it.
Oh no, And you know people in mine I always.
Liked the intensity of the athletes, you know, so I told that. I used to tell my bosses at the paper. I was like, you know, they want to look cool, and I want to make them look cool. And you know, them with a big cheesy smile on their face acting like they're fighting over a trophy or something is not what they want.
You know.
They want to look like they're getting ready to come down to the railroad tracks on you.
So what were you trying to say about Devin Burks the way you posed him?
Well, he was just he's a very laid back kid, you know, as far as but also very present. You know, he was into all of it.
You know.
We did about three different pictures and we did a real tight one with him with his mask on. We did a three quarter with him with his arms crossed, you know, which just looks cool, but it's also and then I was like, we need to let this picture breathe a little bit, you know, I wanted some more environment in it, and so just putting him off to the side and you know, having him you know a lot of times while we were talking. He was standing almost just like that. So I was like, that's exactly
what we want. But let's go over here and do it, because I just want to fill in that background a little more and give some atmosphere.
Yeah, well it'd work, brother. I appreciate it, really, really impressive. It's on again. It's on Mark's Facebook page if you want to go Mark Cornelis and c R N E L. S O N. You got several pictures of Santa Claus, Jack Patty.
Yeah, well, Jack Patty's been a he he loves the process and you know, especially as as Santa, so we've photographed him several times. And I'm actually going to be a big part of a photo show at the end of this year called the Louisville Photo Biennial, and I'm going to have a show up in Frankfurt in the Grand Theater, big list of people that I want to put in there. You know, I want it to be
your everyday guy, civilian if you will. But also I've just got too much history with a lot of the athletes and even some that I don't know, but I've been around him so much. I'm like, I think this will work. So I've got you know, I want to get Goose Gibbings in there. I want to get Derek Ramsey in there.
You know, I'm trying to get hold of Tim Couch. Also.
I have some old high school pictures of Tim Couch I think he'd probably love to have at some point. But you know, I want to mix in some of that history with with you know, your your with everybody else.
I think it'd be kind.
Of a cool also a document of Kentucky because the cool thing about this process I'm doing now is these pictures will last one hundred and seventy five years.
Oh my gosh, wow.
And they say this is the most photographed generation ever that will have nothing to show for it in twenty years because it's all on a device.
That's right, That's exactly right. Do you You mentioned Jack and Derek and Tim, and you've shot, as I said, scores of athletes and games. I guess you don't get to do that as much. Do you miss that? Because your your your work now is people posing as opposed to action photos, which is one reason I know young photographers like to go towards sports to capture action. Do you miss that?
I miss it sometimes, but I don't miss it. As you know, I was able to do so many amazing things when I was at the paper in Cuba's and some Super Bowls and other things that I just couldn't be happier with the way that ended up. And especially with let's say, UK basketball. It's such a crowded floor down there, yep. And yes, I could get a seat, but I'd rather just let some new guy who really wants to be there have that seat and experience what
I did, you know. So I go every now and then, and if I do, sometimes I'll go and I'll take one of these old cameras and shoot with it just to see what I can get. And it's fun and that kind of thing. And every now and then I help out athletics if they need another shooter, you know, to do the real Yeah. In general, I just don't. I don't feel like I need to crowd up that baseline, Lenk give it.
Let the young guys have it.
Do you aspire to take any kind of photo of Mark Pope, any kind of portrait?
Oh?
Absolutely. And the funny thing is that picture of Mark Pope getting off the bus in ninety six where he's holding up the trophy that that was my photo.
Oh really, So I'm.
Already ready for him because I told Ded Moore, I said, look, that's my photo. So Mark already owes me. You know, wait that picture. That picture was his signature when he first got here, so.
Which they recreated when he came in.
Off the bus right right. So I felt I felt proud that day.
And you know when I see the kids holding up the holding it up in the in the eruption zone, I'm like, yeah, I love that. So I told her I was going to wait till the Mark Pope waves kind of subsided, but of course that's not going to probably be till after the season.
So I'm just waiting my turn on that one.
Anytime it happens, it'll be great. Is Mark Cornelissen. Cornelison ten Types is the company. But go to Facebook if you want to see what his work looks like. Mark, always a pleasure, you know. I love your work. Congratulations and best of luck.
Thanks so much, Dick. I appreciate you.
It really is great what Mark does. This style of photography and the style that he was doing before with the old nineteen forty whatever cam was great as well, just just something different because there are just millions of images out there and Mark has taken this the standard sports images through the years. What came up with? Something new, something different, and I urge you to check it out. Thanks to Mark, Thanks to Sean Woods, thanks to Darryl Bird.
That's a good night from the garage in Lexington.
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
No no, see that's no good. You don't know how to act.
These are pretzels. I'm making me thirsty.
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