Welcome to the Big Blue on Saturday Gabriel with you Thursday edition of our program, and we are one day closer to game night both football and basketball. Of course, the football Cats played Tennessee Saturday night down at Nylan, and we'll have it for you right here at five point thirty pre game with Christy Thomas, Logan Stenberg, Jeremy Jarman, and Tom Lee. Jeff mccorl and I will take over as the Cats try to pull the upset against the
seventh ranked volunteers in Kentucky. As of right now, is going to be down several starters when it heads down to Rocky Top. Maxwell Harriston once again on the availability list as out zero percent chance he'll play. Jansen Dunn a cornerback, Gerald Mincy again offensive tackle out, Josiah Hayes defensive lineman, ship train him the running back out again, JJ Weaver, the Eric Jackson two important linebackers out. Steven Soles, junior young outside linebacker will not play and Jordan Dingle,
a tight end, will not play as well. DJ Waller, another cornerback, is listed as questionable probable Demi Sumo, carnbay Is and Dion Walker. So we likely will see them. Tennessee is going to be missing three players listed as out. But right now the Wildcats are really really banged up and it's gonna be a tough one down there. But
we'll have it for you on Saturday night. Then on Monday night, women's basketball at five o'clock as Kenny Brooks team opens up, and then of course the men open up for real on Monday night as well at seven o'clock. So you'll hear the women's game on ninety eight point five FM. You'll hear the men's game as usual on ninety eight point one and on six thirty WLAP. So well, here a little bit later on from Mark Pope and
Kenny Brooks. They talked to the media earlier today. We will tell you that Jackson Robinson is on a couple of watch lists for awards, not unusual at this time of the year, especially for Kentucky players to be on these lists. He is listed on the Jersey Mike's Naysmith Trophy Men's College Basketball Player of the Year watch list. That's a that's a handful. That's not new as far as it is as far as Jersey Mike's is concerned. But the Naismith Award is in its fifty seventh year.
Two Kentucky players have won this through the years. The first to win it, believe it or not, was Anthony Davis twelve years ago. Back in twenty twelve. Now he was the first UK player ever to win the n Men's College Player of the Year Award. Oscar Sheeway jumped up and won it in twenty twenty two fifty players from around the country. Robinson is one of ten SEC candidates.
Now he is also up for the Julius Irving Award, and that is named, of course after doctor j It's in its eleventh year and it recognizes the top small forwards in Division one men's college basketball. And you're asking yourself, is this kid a forward or a guard? Well, he's whatever the watch list or the nomination form says he is. Because schools nominate players for these awards. It's not a bunch of people sitting around and say, well, let's let's take this guy.
Now.
The schools nominate. And I didn't know that until cali Peri first got here, because if you recall, John Wall was the player of the Year in the SEC. DeMarcus Cousins was the Freshman of the Year in the SEC and you're scratching your head. How does that work? Well, the team or the school wisely nominated them for different awards, and that ensured that there would be no vote splitting.
Plus how do you pick between Cousins and wall So, as I said, I didn't really understand this until that happened. But Jackson Robinson and these won't be the first list that he's on. And I guarantee you, well, whatever kind of defensively there are, Lamont Butler will be on them. Speaking up basketball, Kentucky pulls Mark Pope away from Brigham Young. Right,
So who did Brigham Young turn to? A guy? And you may have seen his name, but a guy named Kevin Young, who most recently had been the associate head coach for the Phoenix Suns. But way back, like fourteen years ago, he was well, no, not that long back at whole five six, he was an assistant at Utah Valley under Mark Pope. But after that he spent most of his time in the G League, and then he moved up to the NBA with the seventy six ers as an assistant coach, and then a couple of different
jobs with the Phoenix Suns before BYU hired him. And the reason I bring this up is because Brigham Young played its first exhibition game last night and drew more than sixteen thousand, So fans were excited about basketball. They became more excited when Mark Pope got there, and they remain excited despite the fact that Kentucky poached its coach. But they played Colorado Christian which is D two, beat him ninety three forty nine. And see tell me if
this sounds familiar. Twenty four assists on thirty one made baskets. I don't know what system they're running, but those are numbers similar to what we've seen with the Wildcats and two exhibitions. But evidently Mark Pope had them loving basketball out at Brigham Young. So the team he left behind is doing a pretty good job right now as well. One more basketball note before we get on to the World Series is we've got to talk about that Kentucky connection.
But there's a UK connection, and there usually is to an NBA game last night more than one. But last night there were two Wildcats in one game who had huge efforts as the Heat lost to the New York Knicks. Tyler Hero thirty four points, five rebounds, seven assists, hit sixty percent eight of thirteen from three point land, but his team lost to the Knicks, won sixteen to one oh seven. Why well, the Knicks got an even bigger game from Karl Anthony Towns, the guy for whom the
Knicks traded. They traded Julius Randall, another former Wildcat, to Minnesota. And this is the kind of game. Maybe not every night, but this is the kind of game the Knicks fans have been hoping for. Forty four points and then went over the heat. All right, we got to talk about the World Series because Lexingon's Walker Bueller closed it out for the Dodgers. Let me tell you first about how this happened, because he was not supposed to pitch last night.
He was not even in the plans for Dave Roberts. And we know this because that's what he said, the manager appearing on Fox Sports right after the game, talking about a conversation he had with Walker.
You know, Walker Buehller sent me a text earlier today saying, Hey, I'll be available. He sent us in the GM a text and I just kind of patted him on the head, said no, thanks. But then in the seventh inning he's on his jack, gets to jacket and says, hey, I'll be there if you need me, And sure enough we needed him.
So Buehller comes on in relieve. It's the first time he pitched in relief since June twenty eighth of twenty eighteen, and back then he gave up five earned runs took the loss against the Chicago Cubs. Man was he sharp last night? Of course the Yankees or anything butt sharp. We'll get to that in a minute. But Buehller talked to Fox Sports right after they were still celebrating down on the field.
Walker, when you woke up this morning, did you have any inkling you'd be closing out the clinching game of this?
Said, I didn't.
Throw balls on one out there, so oh no, after all, you went through this almost two years and helping down the season.
Wasn't mean to you to do what you did tonight.
Obviously for me personally huge two two years off to surgeries. It's a lot for our organization. We deserve this. We've been playing really good baseball for a lot of years and twenty twenty and whatever. But they can't say a whole lot about it.
Now, How did you feel out there?
I don't know, It's hard to explain. You know, I felt like I weighed about.
Five pounds and.
I wish I was in a little.
Better shape so my heart could have handled it better. But it worked out Land the team guys were down.
To one in the division series up to the Padres. You were down five to nothing tonight.
What is it about this group that makes it so resilient? You know, there's just a lot of ways we can win baseball games. Obviously the superstars we have on our team, and then the discipline. This kind of all adds up and it's a big inning, you know, it's just wild Welkacongdas.
Thank you for Walker Buller talking to Fox Sports. And of course Walker went to Vandy to not go to the UK, but is a product of Henry Clay High School, just like his wife Mackenzie. And as you made o by now, that battery, the Pitcher Catcher combo was all Kentucky will Smith behind the plate, a U OFL product. So as they celebrated the World Series, it was a cardinal and a wildcat coming together in great joy. There is no joy in New York, of course, because the
Yankees have struck out metaphorically. Of course, what a terrible game they play. That was the worst performance in one inning in the fifth inning, as they blew a five nothing lead that I've ever seen. I haven't seen every inning of every World Series game, but I've read a lot about all of them, and I can't imagine in a situation like that, where you've got a big lead
in a game you must have to stay alive. How poorly the Yankees played an error, a flub on a force play, a mental error as a pitcher fails to cover first and even if the first baseman should have been there, the pitcher should have been there as well instead of just pointing to the bag. You know, they work on this every day, starting in spring training, and that just opened the floodgates. It was terrible. It was
a comedy of errors. Literally, Aaron Judge drops a fly ball in center field, had a home run in the first inning, but otherwise didn't do a whole lot for his ball club. And now what's going to be his legacy? Well in New York unless they turn around and win a World Series and win one soon, he is not going to be remembered fondly by Yankees fans four for eighteen and five games against the Dodgers. And look, we all know how pitching handles good hitting, but man, that
error really opened the gates. That was one of the things that opened the gates. And now a lineup that included Wan Soto, Gian Carlo Stanton just didn't get it done. Soto and Stanton did, okay, but Aaron Judge. I mean, people were in the middle of debating who's better him or Otani, And ironically enough, a lot of people, and myself included, I'd give a slight edge to Judge because he plays defense. We didn't play it very well last night.
And fans all over New York are just sick to their stomach right now, including my New York City Bureau chief Mike Saffo. Oh Man, his tweets the worst. And by the way, the Jets, if you think there's going to be some respite tonight, they played the Texans on Thursday Night football. Somehow the Jets are favored. Amazing, They're favored by a point and a half. Maybe because they beat the Texans last year thirty to six at Medlife Stadium, But that was last year. Now they got a new
interim head coach and they're circling the dream. Tough time to be a fan in New York unless you've already shifted your attention to the New York Knicks and Karl Anthony Towns. When we come back, we'll hear from Mark Pope a little bit later on Kenny Brooks as they prepare their teams. At the bottom of the hour. David Sisk from Cats Illustrated part of the Rivals Network. He has been already breaking down UK basketball video that's gonna be fun. It's coming up here on the Big Blue
Siders six thirty WLAP. Welcome back to the Big bluon Sider. Coming up in just a few minutes. David Sisk of Cats Illustrated covers Kentucky and North Carolina for the Rivals Network. He's been breaking down UK video from both the Kentucky Wesleyan and Minnesota State and and Cato games. So we'll learn more of what the coach thinks of the Wildcats, who open their season for keeps for real under Mark Pope Monday night against Wright State seven o'clock start. We'll
have pregame for you at five thirty. Now, the women play at five o'clock, so that means our pregame begins at fourty with Darren Hedrick, so we'll have that on our FM station ninety eight point five, and then of course the men's games, we'll be right here on six
point thirty WLAP. Mark Pope and Kenny Brooks both spoke to the media earlier today, and we'll start with Mark Pope because he told us a little bit about the fact that and he followed up it was actually a question I asked him about the fact that they got off to that cold start, and he told fans don't worry about it. I ran a little bit of that on the show last night from the postgame show, but I followed up with some of his comments about it's
going to be okay. If shots aren't falling, things are going to be okay, and everybody needs to just basically get used to this. Don't worry. Shots are going to fall, and when they do, you will see a streak the likes of which you saw against Minnesota State when the Cats turned the game into blowout.
We hope that's a defining feature of our team. And it's two things about it. One is the first part of that is that our guys are super resilient, and we have a team that can go fix things, like we're a veteran team. We see the game, we understand the game, we can go fix things. And then and then the second part is we know it's always common man.
As aggressive as we are offensively and as solid as we can be defensively, we always know that it could be in the first five minutes of the game, it could be in the last seven minutes of the game. There's gonna be a two or three minute run that's kind of a death knell where our guys where we get it done. And so I like those two features of this team, that this group is really really resilient,
like we're good at fixing things. And then and then we know something, something really fun is just around the corner for BBN and and for our team the way we play.
I asked Pope how long did it take him to get used to that notion as a coach who embraces offense, and he took us back to his NBA days. He said, the guy that he likes to emulate in this situation the most is George carl who he said, could be in the middle of a huddle when you're down twenty six to eleven, but he would say, don't worry, guys. The energy is good. We're doing good things. We just
haven't a shots yet, but everything's going well. Conversely, they could be up big, but he'll say, you know, I don't really like the way things are going. So he tries to embrace that element of Carl's coaching, which is why when the shots unfalling, he's got to know the streak is on the way.
I actually think the game asks us for that. The game is asking us to don't be distracted by the It's kind of like the stock market. Right if you're if you're an incredibly wise investor, as I am, which is not true, you know, then you know that your you know, long term, you're ready to roll with some of the blips that happened in the stock market, but over the over the ten year, you're kind of watching trends and and that's how we try and act with
our team. It's really hard to do because because it's emotional, and it's intense, and you know, and and BBN is is you know, we're all gonna fret together. But but it works and our guys feel it. And that's this idea of like knowing, hey, the energy's right in this building. We're going to fix some things and then this this is gonna be a big time run coming and let's go. Let's go be prepared to enjoy it.
And again the men open up, as you know, with Wright State on Monday Night. Now the women who take on USC Upstate, you'll hear it here. You'll see that one on SEC Plus. The men, by the way, are on ESPN you if you want to watch and listen at the same time. The women are on ESPN Plus with Jeff Picorrel and Christy Thomas. We talked to Kenny Brooks about this brand new team and somebody asked him, just how good can this team be? And he said, yeah, the potential is there.
A couple of weeks ago, you know, we were still a little raw and where we were trying to go a little bit more clarity and what we're trying to do now the way that they're able to work well together in those positions. You know, we I've put some very uncon conventional lineups out there where we're huge and they've handled it extremely well. And so you'll probably see that line up quite a bit during during the early stretches,
you know, as we head into SEC play. But you know, I think we have the potential to be a very good basketball team. What we do, we have the pieces, you know, in some areas where we needed to be. We're very experienced, we're older, you know, I've joked about it. We may have the oldest backcourt in the country. And I have to treat them that way because, you know, Dejah Lawrence and Georgia Amore, They've blogged a lot of minutes, played a lot of great basketball. So we have to
make sure it's kind of like the vintage car. You don't want to take it out every day, you know, but you want to make sure you take care of it. And then we have young post players who who are just thriving and getting better each and every day. So I think that's a good recipe.
Clara Strack, a young post player, was there, and I asked her about the fact that teams often good teams reflect the personality of their coach. So I said, what's the personality we are going to see from this team reflective of Kenny Brooks.
I would say our attention to detail. We very methodical in the way we run, like our offenses and this stuff, and I think that's how he coaches us to be. So I think that would be a good reflection of him.
That's a pretty good sign if he asked me, because it's the little things that will carry you to victory, and it's ignoring the little things or not paying enough attention that will get your beats. So we'll find out just how well if that works on Monday when the UK women take on usc Upstate. You will hear it here and see it on SEC Plus. David Sisk of
The Rivals Network is back on six point thirty. Welcome back to the Big Blue and Sider joining us now to talk basketball as a guy we love talking basketball with. He is David Sisk of the Rivals Network. You see his work at Cat's Illustrated Coach.
How you been I've been good, been good. Getting ready to get into that crazy time of the year, and not just people think crazy time to get into basketball, and that's the case, but as you know, there's not a whole lot of downtime once I know you do all kinds of different sports, but we get into the winner for what I do. There's just not a whole lot of downtime, So just gearing up for a time, get your winks in when you can.
Well you keep an eye on the recruits as well as the teams that are actually playing. So I know, like you said, there's not a whole lot of downtime. But you've had a chance to peak at Kentucky. David of course covers Kentucky and North Carolina for the Rivals Network, and you've had a chance to take a peek at the Wildcats under Mark Pope of late. From your tweets, it seems like you're pretty impressed. Am I right about that?
Well, I like to watch the action and that they do, so when I'm looking at it, I'm looking at it from a strategic point and x's and those point of view, and then just try to see with you know, the talent that they have, you know, how it fits what they do into that and uh, you know, this is kind of basketball really Dick, that we've been uh really after for the last couple of years and kind kind of banging for. And I said, it was just it
was released to me just the last night. To watch a team when you go down the floor and you don't get what you want, let's say, and transition, it's seamlessly. You you you just do into a flow and reverse the ball instead of screen and keep it moving, instead of having a coach jumping up and down and screaming all over the gym that you could hear pointing around trying to get everybody in position, and then when you finally run your players, eight seconds left on the shot clock.
And I think that's kind of that's not a knock on coach cal as a coach, but that was his style and just to set it up and get these half court sets and it just you know, last year was more free for Roland obviously, but you know we've seen a lot we've been waiting for this what we're seeing from Hope, you know, coming in and uh just enjoy watching her actions. And like I said, I think
they got some shooters. It's hard to tell from who they've played, really playing two Division two teams that were overmatched physically, but quite a bit of just how good it's going to be. You know, it's not going to work as easily its do obviously, but so we really don't know. But like I said, I like to watch what they do, and we do know they're gonna push it. They're going to shoot a lot of threes. And I think they can make threes and they can shoot them.
So I think what he wants to do they do pretty well. The question's gonna be, well, a whole new team, how do they mess together? They seem to be doing that pretty well. I think there's a lot of basketball IQ out there could learn on a fly. I think we saw that last night. I was impressed with some of the decisions they made, no matter the competition before they play, you know, get into the season, you know they are. They made some really good decisions last night
on the move. I think they know, Uh, he's teaching how to play basketball. I think he's got some guys that know how to play. Now we're gonna see how athletic they are. That's gonna be an issue. But like I said, he wants to push it. He wants to get up threes, he wants to run certain kind of style, and you know, it's been enjoyed to watch them do it through the first two exhibition games.
Well, you talked about the fact that, yeah, they weren't having to look to the sideline for for instruction. And Jack Gibbons talked about that as well on the Postgame Show on Tuesday Night, that seeing veterans out there able to make their own decisions because of their experience, And to your point, it's it's for most of them, it is a new style. It's not like they're making it up as they go along. But they, I'm sure, and I've seen a couple of practices. They're able to absorb things quicker.
Right, that's right. And I know, and I know we're talking apples and oranges. It's a different thing. But even though as a high school coach, you know, I have I ran into that. We were saying, Okay, we're running sets and we're putting stuff in, and are my guys learning how to play on these sets or are they learning how to play basketball? And I've heard a lot of different really successful coaches that asked that question of themselves.
I think one compliment that you could always give a good high school coach was, Hey, his kids knew how to play basketball. They just didn't. They just didn't go through the set planes. And that's what they did. They weren't system players. So yeah they are and they were there were two or three plays last night and some of the teets that I put up where I had the videos up. Uh, they bring the ball down the floor. They're trying to get something to transition. It doesn't work,
and they don't pull the ball out. I think, Uh the player Uh Andrew Carr was uh the player on the floor at the time, and you know, he just pops to the top and a hymn and he reverses the ball and go into a ball screen action and Uh they have a little pop there to garrison for a little mid range and then they had another deal or they hit car on a roll. Uh. So that's
the thing they know. Like I said, even when they're running stuff in half court, if they don't get what they want, it never bobs down the player movement to keep it going, to keep the the movement going. I kind of watch them. They know car On in one play, he understood that there the hedge was at. So we went straight into the post and knew the defender was going to be on the top side and the guards recognized it. So they threw the ball to the top
and then they had the high low. They knew exactly what they wanted and like I said, when they're doing it most some of the options when they don't get the early shot, and it may go from a transition
into the half court, but it flows. And I've done some of this stuff on the North Carolina side too, and Roy william said that one always do that too, And I always admired, as great a coach as he was, how his teams could go from running and when they didn't get a transition bucket they should go to half court. And it looked like once flowed right into the other. They didn't have to pull it out, call a play,
and everybody run to a spot. So you know, if I can say that I see Mark Pope doing a lot of the stuff that Roy Williams did, I think that's probably a pretty good compliment.
Talking to David, the rivals work covers Kentucky and North Carolina for Cats illustrated MARII Williams goes down early, and I'm sure that that had something to do with the rebounding battle being almost even. We'll get back to that. But Pope talked about this as well in this post game David. It forced him to play some different combinations, different rotations, and it forced his players to make adjustments on the fly, and that kind of fists right into what you've been saying.
Right, yeah, and that's what you want to do. I would not want to go into these exhibitions and say, Okay, everything's going to be perfect, we're going to play this set lineup though game and we're going to do this. I wouldn't want that. I think right now, you've got the tinker. Yeah, you've got the tinker, and see what you've got. And you've got to work on different combinations. You've got to those things. You've got the small lineups, big lineups, you've got to do all those different things.
So you know, you can look at Kentucky the last few years. It's death taxes and a bunch of injuries. That's what it's been. And hopefully it won't be that this year. But you're going to have some guys. You're going to get nicked up and banged up, and you're going to have guys who are not going to be available. So and it may be bigs, it may be perimeters. I mean, they may be some games they don't have Amri wheels, I may don't have Friend of Gears. They may have some guards out, So you want to get
these guys experience. I think you want to give them as much time playing on each other and different lineups as much as possible. It's not really a next as those things. It's just getting guys used to playing with each other.
David Sister, I guess we'll come back and talk more with the coach in just a minute here on the Big Boom site. Welcome back to starting w L. That's Illustrated part of the Rivals network. He covers Canentucky and North Carolina for Cats Illustrated or rather for Rivals, and talking of course about the two exhibition games. Of course, in a way, David, with all due respect to Wesley and I kind of throw that one out because they
were sobermatched. We all know the Minnesota State was a D two national champion last year and forced Kentucky to work a lot harder, I thought last night, and part of that was rebounding when the Mary Williams went out. They had a streak there in the second half and they were hitting almost everything they put up. So it's a reminder that it is so early. I mean, there's so much work to do, isn't there?
There is?
And I will say this, when I watched Minni State of State early, I was like, man, they're not very athletic. Yeah, and I mean they did they were skilled. They should really shoot the ball. So there were not a lot of D one athletes out there. So I think the big question right now that we were going to be offered is, you know, how athletic is this team. I think that's going to be one of the outlying questions early on. But one thing that I did notice as
Kentucky got going, they looked more athletic. And this game went on in Minnesota State got tirer, they looked even more athletic, but they started making mistakes. I started noticing them making defensive mistakes. You know, on the pick and roll that car had two guys went with Robinson Jackson, Robinson cutting to the top so there wasn't a vocal call on the switch, and then Toby Bray I had that kind of step back three off the dribble and both guys went on there. He came off of all screen.
Both guys went with a role on that one, and he just pulled the dribble back and shot it. So those things happened, But like I said, I'm going to tell you this for Kentucky, and they are going to the way they can shoot the ball and the way they move, and it's a beautiful thing to watch. They are going to force other defenses on every cut and every screen, in every roll and every bit of action
because there's all this moving and screening. You are going to have to be on top of your game on how you guard this stuff because if you don't, and as well as they shoot the ball, they can really just scorch you. If let's say, two guys go with a roll, two guys go with the cut instead of the row. They don't communicate it, they don't have backside help, you don't have the tag guy. You don't switch this action the way. If they're going to switch it, you
don't do it. You don't do it aggressively. I mean, they're going to put pressure on teams to do the right things defensively.
Yeah, and I saw it last night.
And here's the thing, anybody, So we're talking about Minnesota State not being Duke, and I just released the story at Cat's Illustrated and I said this the very last paragraph, Duke and missus switch just not Minnesota State and that has nothing to do with athleticism on the way you're a high level D one athlete or a D two athlete has nothing to do with it. So Minnesota State mississ O switches. Well, all that happens, man, they just knocking down threes. Jackson Robinson when you put him in
the stagger action and the zoom action. Let's say you set a pick a roll at the top and you have Jackson Robinson coming off the wing to fill up, so we call it roll a place and fill You had to pick. You have to roll by the big and then the wing comes up on the other side behind it. So if the tag guy goes takes the roll, you just kick it to Robinson up and he shoots three. So if you have Robinson's got he decides to stay,
then there's no back line help against that role. If you try to head, your help on the of sprint on the guard. So Robinson comes up and I'm watching guys last night. They said, hey, we'll give you a roll of the dunk. We're gonna say, I'm staying with Robinson. I am not giving up free. We'll let you dunk it before you give up the three. So those kinds of decisions. So you put him Kobe Brush at forty percent,
Chris s they hit some deep ball. So you've got those three point shooters out there, who's just it looks like the rims as big as a barrel when they're shooting it. They're putting pressure on guys to make decisions. They're all of a sudden team defenses taught. I've got a tag on this roll. But I got Jackson Robinson filling up on the outside. He's made eight threes tonight. What am I going to do? So there they can put you in a and that those kind of predictables.
Yeah, and yet at times, Coach, they passed up would looked like some really easy, makeable twos. To throw that one extra pass and fired off into the corner for an attempt at three.
You know what I'm saying, Yeah, I'm interested to see how much at Kentucky his formula will be kind of like a Natos where they you know, don't really shoot the mid range. And so now now he'll tell them he doesn't want you if you're at the ram passing the ball out for the three. Now, that's going to be one thing. But you know they'll pass up that open twelve further for a guy outside. So that I'm really interested to see on a shot selection because I
mean they're coming out now. I mean they're shooting forty three's a game. And if you look last year, so let's take Alabama for example, you know we think about them the second up all these threes. They averaged twenty eight game last year, the the lead, the lead NCAA leaders shot thirty one per game, so they're you know, they're about eight over that. I think it was thirty ninety CAF I find numbers right, so they're right, they're
eight above that. Now I know it's exhibitions the more athletic teams too, And as you scout, they're going to run them off the line. I thought Minnesota State last night, I watched them all that. I said, you know, they're not trying to slow it down. They play all this zoom and stagger and their actions look a lot like popes. If you watch them and they're getting quit shots up and I'm like, man, this may not work out too well for them. They're gonna try to run with them.
So uh, you know, teams will scout, teams will start trying to take stuff away. But you know right now, I mean Kentucky, it's as Mark Popees is advertisment. You know, he's team shoot threes and they're shooting a lot of them.
Yeah, and they were cold to begin with and they got super hot and put that game way uh and pok on to tease the audience after said major nervous, didn't we uh, but he said he basically told the audience. The fans who waited around to see his postgame show and listened to him on the radio said, he basically said, on paraphrasing, get used to that, you know, because it's all about them getting good threes. But sometimes they're going to miss a bunch in a row and they're gonna make a lot and.
It happens because it's it's high risk y reward. You know. It's like if you're a golf fan, you watch a PGA tour, it's like one of these two hundred ninety yard parts horns of water on those sides. You know, you can drive the grain and get some eagles and you may. You know, it's fun to watch, you know, there's a lot of intrigue to it's definitely not boring. And he yeah, his teams are going to shoot us, and that's what happens. But you think about it, uh,
you know, you just keep shooting them. And I think that's what the coaches who play this kind of style will tell of guys. You don't even think about them. It's this, you just keep shooting and everything will even up, you know, on the numbers eventually. And they did start
out slow, but then they get heated up. So you think about if you make Jack to Robinson makes eight threes, he would have had to make twelve twos even up with that twenty four point So you know what you can get what you know, we'll pray threes for twos. And you know where I grew up, there was a coach back in you know, in the early eighties, like seventies. His name is Chris Jones Carson Newman, and Chris Jones was really kind of started this stuff running. And then
when they put the three point line up. His thing was he didn't care about defense. And there he had a lot of players out of Kentucky. One of them was named Steve Adams and some of the listeners may know that name, and he was from Kentucky and he was a great player there. He said. Coach Jones didn't even call deep, never used the word defense, called defense
it you know what, had never addressed. And he said his defense strategy to let the other teams score as quickly as possible, so we needn't get the ball back. And his thing was, we'll let you have all the twos that you want. We're gonna go down to make threes, so we're gonna trade our threes for your twos. And I think Mark Pope wants to put more on defense.
And what coach Jones did that just gives you an example, you know that that's just kind of like was the philosophy and analytics is such a big part of it where you say, hey, we've got the numbers to prove that if we make threes, you just can't keep up and beat us. And I'm sure he knows. I'm sure he knows the analytics of everything that's going on, the numbers,
how many in the style he needs to attempt. It's really fascinating those coaches can tell you how many threes need to take per game, what percentage of threes, and how many they need to make based on I have douging card and the numbers will work out.
Oh yeah, no question about it, and just an FYI. I will have to talk about it next time. But a guy that was in my freshman dorm and played freshman ball at Kentucky transferred to Carson Newman. But that's a conversation for another night.
David Sisters played Jones played with Oscar Robertson for the Cincinnati Royal, So that tells you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. He had a lot of guys. He had a lot of guys. He had a lot of guys out to touch and play a lot about credibility.
Followed David on Cats Illustrated part of the Rivals Network on X. He has coached David Sisk and looking forward to talking to you next time.
Coach Absolutely.
Up next Cameron Drummond of The Hero Leader to talk about the basketball and football Cats and Ellis Star The uber Kapper looks ahead to the Breeders Cup That's all next year. On The Big Bulling Siders six thirty.
W la Per.
Welcome back to the Big Blue and Sider joining us now in our celebrity outline as a guy that covers men's basketball, horse racing, soccer and a lot more for the Hair Leader, Cam Drummond, Cam, how are you, sir?
I'm doing good, you know, still shaking off the cobb leeds after being in Louisville last night for a United States women's soccer match, but nonetheless excited to shift gears, talk a little basketball, and really any of the other things that I do over at the Herald Leader.
Well before we get to that, though, tell me about how that played out. Because they got a friendly win over Argentina, first time in twenty years that the US soccer team has played in the state of Kentucky. What kind of crowd did they get?
A spectacular crowd was a sold out crowd of more than thirteen thousand, five hundred people at Louisville's Lynn Family Stadium, which is, of course, where both of Louisville's professional men's and women's soccer teams play. It was the largest crowd ever to see a women's soccer match in that stadium's history.
They even had some temporary bleachers in the area that's normally standing room only to house the crowd and really just kind of an example of the growing influence that Kentucky is starting to have on the American soccer team. He's got four professional teams in the state now, between the two in Louisville and the two under the Lexington Sporting Club umbrella. Obviously, I've see Cincinnati and Major League Soccer not too far away, just across the Ohio River.
So I don't think it'll be twenty years before another United States national team makes the trips of the Commonwealth. I'll say that.
Yeah, And it's a great stadium. Isn't a great facility?
Oh yeah, excellent, you know, really Christine's views of the Big Four Bridge, some of the Southern Indiana and downtown Louisville skylines, and also just a great time that they've set up that stadium in a really engaging way where there's great site lines, great atmosphere. You know, it's kind of a bowl design with one end open. It's pretty easy to get to from the highway that connects Blessington
in Louisville. So yeah, they definitely have done a great job with that, and you can see that usually with pretty high supporter turnouts for all the activities they have there.
Any idea if and when they're coming back.
No news yet. Obviously, there's a couple of major events coming up soon with the twenty twenty six World Cup, which Louisville is a nominee or a candidate to be a host city for. That doesn't mean that they'll host matches, but it means they could be the base camp for a couple teams you would still have to go. I believe Atlanta is the closest city to the Commonwealth in terms of hosting matches in the twenty six World Cup.
But there'll definitely be some cycles not only for the women's national team, but the men's national team as well, maybe even some youth national teams down the line. So nothing's set in stone, but I do think before too on we'll see another national team match here in Kentucky.
Good well, let me shift over to basketball because Ben Roberts talk about this the other day with me, and he said, you were kind of keeping track of offensive possessions against both Kentucky Wesleyan and Minnesota State man Cato and basically with an eye on the shots that went up the pace of the game. Was that something you decided you would do ahead of time or tell me about your curiosity when it comes to something like this.
Yeah, certainly, Well, obviously something that was a pretty big storyline and continues to be a big storyline, you know, during the early stages of Mark Pope's first season. Is just the offensive philosophy that Kentucky has. You know, they talked in the off season about bringing the ball past half court within three seconds on the shot clock, getting a shot up within fourteen seconds on the shot clock.
So this wall results in an article a bit down the road, you know, once we get some real regular season game data to basis off of talking to a few more people, talking to some opposing coaches as well. But just through the first two exhibition games, I did a very rough hand, rudimentary counting of how many of those Kentucky basketball offensive possessions resulted in a shot within the first fourteen seconds of the shot clock, right, And
so there were some parameters in place. You know, obviously, if a possession, you know, results in the turnover, that doesn't count. I kind of filter out some noise in the data in terms of if an opponent fouls them within the first couple of seconds, or you know, if they get the ball in it's a reset shot clock
or the end of a half or whatever. But basically, through two games, both of the exhibitions Kentucky basketball more than sixty eight percent on both During both games, of those countable possessions resulted in a shot attempt within the first fourteen seconds of the shot clock. That percentage worth seventy eight point four percent for Kentucky Wesleyan and sixty
eight point eight percent for Minnesota State. So obviously a small data set, but you know, for all the talk in the off season about Kentucky trying to get into those offensive actions early on, to let the ball fly from deep, to get those quick shots, it's certainly happening and you were seeing that reflected in three point numbers. Obviously the point totals as well, especially once Kentucky y
got going against Minnesota State. So this Markope offense is going to operate fast, it's going to operate quickly, and if it's operating efficiently, it really can overwhelm opponents.
Not surprising that the number was down just a bit against Minnesota State. It's a better team than Wesleyan, and the Wesleyan coach after the game apologized first team not giving a better effort, But that slow start, I guess had something to do with those numbers. Can but that's still pretty impressive.
Oh, definitely, yeah, And especially when you think about the Minnesota State game. And I think one of the storylines that my colleague Ben focused on after the game for his article on Kentucky dot Com was just the fact that this is going to continue to be the way the style in which Mark Pope's teams play, even if the shots aren't necessarily falling. I mean, it felt like the basket had a lid over it when it came to three pointers and just general offense for the first
ten to twelve minutes for Kentucky against Minnesota State. And then the next thing, you know, you look up in Kentucky's gone on a twenty three to two run in like a three minute span to create you know, incredible separation, put the outcome far beyond, far beyond halftime. And I'm not saying that's going to be replicated every single night out against a Division one opponent or an SEC play.
But when you look up and all of a sudden, Jackson Robinson makes four to three pointers in a six minute span, you know, even what we saw Trent Noah do against Kentucky Wesley and with a barrage of late three pointers and just the depth and the waves with which this team can come at you. We've seen some great stuff from Otegaha early on, just in terms of driving to the basket, forcing the issue, putting pressure on
the rim. And this is with us only being exposed to sixteen minutes of the Kerk Crease, a fast paced, breakneck experience off the bench. So you know, this Kentucky basketball team is going to have to win offensively with depth this season. You know, they still probably kind of lack that one true, number one alpha option on that
side of the court. But because they can go nine to ten, maybe even eleven players deep, and they come at you in these waves, and they have such a high potential to get hot from three point range, to be making shots at a consistent clip, then all of a sudden, it might be very difficult for teams to not only prepare for this within the course of the season when you only have a couple of days before before a game excuses a scouting opponent, but also adjusting
on the fly, especially when a run like that happened. I believe the Minnesota State coach spoke post game about how it can deboralize a team when you know four to three pointers go in in a sixty second span.
And how do you prepare for a team with so many guys who can shoot, I mean willing to shoot. They all have the green light, even the biggs. Garrison tried one the other night for crying out loud, and they can hit him. So that extra pass is going to be deadly this year, at least in theory.
Right, certainly, Yeah, and you think about the bigs as well. I mean, the first two exhibition games really haven't even shown the full versatility of Andrew Carr, who is expected to be one of the most efficient, if not the most efficient player on offense for Kentucky. I believe he's combined for two to three point attempts through those first
two exhibitions. Don't think he made either of them. You referenced Brandon Garrison, who didn't take a single three pointer all of last season as a freshman big at Oklahoma State. He's finally letting one fly from beyond the arc. And to say all that, you know, and that's without knowing you know who's going to prop up for a certain game. Again, we've seen otega Oway have some big score and performances, even though Jackson Robinson has eased into that leading score
role throughout the first two exhibitions. But it's not just three pointers either, you know. I spoke to Andrew Carr, I think it was last week before the Minnesota State game, and he talked about how Kentucky also has a set number of transition opportunities that they like to hit each game. I think he said the number was thirty two, although he told me not to quote him on that. So somewhere around that range is where Mark Pope, you know,
thirty to thirty two transition opportunities. That obviously flows from defense. We've seen a great look at how intense some of that on ball pressure, especially from Lamont and Butler, can be, but even in those transition opportunities as well. I was referencing kind of that hand of charting offensive possession thing I was doing throughout the two first exhibitions. There are times where Kentucky was making a block or getting a steel or just coming up with a loose ball in
the defensive end of the court. I would go down on my piece of paper to write a tali mark to signify that an offensive possession was about to begin. I'd look up and the ball would already be in the basket. You know, in Kentucky, Wesley and our Minnesota State would be taking it out of bounds because that's how fast in transition Kentucky is moving, how fast they're getting that shot up in transition. And again, even if that SHOT's not necessarily going in, oftentimes that's resulting in
a foul or just draining an opponent. You know. I think the other thing to think about, especially as the season goes on, is this style of play, how fast they're moving, you know, just how much you know mentally, how much that takes out of a team to be defending x amount of offensive possessions per game. Kentucky may just wear teams down physically and mentally because of how fast this offense in tends to operate.
Talking to Cameron Drumming to the Hero Leader about the basketball Wildcats, we'll come back with a few more questions for Cam on the other side of the break here in the Big Boon side Welcome back, We're talking with Cam Drumming of the Hero Leader. He was charting Kentucky's offensive efficiency. How quickly did the Wildcats get up shots against both Minnesota State Man Cato and Kentucky Wesleyan. I
really got a kick out of Mark Pope. I don't know if you were still in rupp Arena, or you might have been back in the back, or he might have said the same thing back there. But when he said to the fans talking about that two for thirteenth streak, he said, we made you nervous, didn't we? And he said that doesn't phase me, So I guess we all
need to get get ready for streaks like that. But as you pointed out and everybody saw, they went on that run that turned a nervous crowd and the one that was going nuts when the three pointers began to fall.
Right Yeah.
And again I think this might be the case for at least certain games this season where it might infuriate Kentucky fans as they continue to see the catch put up three pointers or take quick shots and they don't fall. But that's the whole recipe here, that's the whole secret. And especially in that Minnesota State postgame press conference, Mark Hope was pretty clear that you know, hey, BBN, this is exactly how we're going to play. You know, he still did a couple questions about just how he keeps
his player's confidence up. You know, the message, the mentality that he preaches to them even in those difficult moments when shots aren't falling, and you know, the crowd might get a bit uneasy or a bit worried or or whatever, but the whole mentality and the whole approach is to
continue taking those shots. I mean, one of the most popular refrains we heard from Kentucky players this offseason during media opportunities was that Mark Pope was going to get mad at you if you didn't take those open shot. You know, it seems like the one way to guarantee that you don't play for Mark Pope is that you pass up open opportunities or you're hesitant to take the
shot when it presents itself. So I think from all corners here, Mark Pope is teaching both to his players both to the fan base that hey, Kentucky basketball is going to play this three point heavy, fast paced offensive style, even if it's not going great, They're going to stick
to their guns, stick to their principles on that. And if you're not willing to be a part of that and flow within the offense and take that open three pointer or take that high percentage two pointer when it's available, then you're not going to be seeing the court much longer, right right.
You know what's also curious to me, I want to really see how this team. They talk a lot about turning defense into offense quick you kind of alluded to that a few minutes ago, but how quickly can they turn offense into defense? Because we saw what happened last year with the Kentucky team that was brilliant at times offensively, but just couldn't get it done on defense. And Pope basically drafted his team at first with defense in mind, didn't he.
Yeah, that's a really interesting thing and something that we definitely, you know, hit on a couple of times this offseason at Kentucky dot Com. Was just, you know, for a coach whose offensive philosophies are so championed, and that's kind of the calling card when you think about Mark Post teams, especially the ones in recent years at BYU. This was a team that was drafted with a lot of defensive chops.
I mean, I mentioned Lamon Butler a second ago, just with how much pressure he puts on opposing point guards, how tenacious he is when doing that on ball defense. But Amari Williams, you know, obviously, who had a bit
of an injury staer against Minnesota State. Three time Conference defensive player of the Year at Drexel, you know, a guy who can really patrol of paint, has good shop locking tendencies, rebounds well, and that pairs with some of his offensive skills in terms of the touring abilities, the passing ability as well as you've seen a couple of times as well, or take it away again, another kind of big bodied guy in the backcourt who can really
wall up on defense. And Brendan Garrison, who I talked about a little bit earlier in terms of being a McDonald's All American just a couple of years ago out of high school. Even last year. You know, he started as a freshman big in the Big Twelve, which was the consensus best conference in the country, although that looks like it'll be the SEC this season. But he more than held his own as a defender. And you get some of these guys who are maybe offensive first players
to improve on the margins on defense. You know, make sure that Kerkkrisa can stay in front of his guy, Kobe Brea, even a guy like Colin Chandler as he continues to round back into basketball shape. He has the size, he has a basketball IQ, to sniff out passing lanes, to have active hands, all of those things. I think what's really interesting too, is we saw, especially against Minnesota State,
Mark Pope trying some really interesting lineup combinations. I believe there was at one point where Kobe Brea was the tallest guy on the court as Kentucky went ultra small, and there are probably going to be some other moments, at least earlier in the season where he tries to pair you know, Brandon Garrison with another big you know, or tries to pair Amari Williams his help with another big you know. Try and figure out those lineup combinations
is still a pretty inexact science. Mark Pope still hasn't really committed to having that rigid of a plan in terms of always having this starting five, always bringing a couple of guys off the bench, and I know that drove some Kentucky fans crazy last year, but I think they'll see a little bit more of a fluid situation this year in terms of who plays with who, who starts games, who closes games, And that just speaks to the versatility that Kentucky has really on both ends of
the court to cause potential problems for opponents.
I've only got a couple of minutes left, but you brought up a great point in that, and Pope talked about this. The injury to Williams forced him to play some rotations and combinations that they weren't quite ready for. But there were veteran players able to adjust on the fly, and compared to some I'm not knocking him, but compared to Caliperi's rosters of the past, that's a luxury to have guys who don't have to look to the bench every time they come down the floor.
Yeah.
No, that's a great point you make as well, because you think about putting these players in these situations, it's obviously asking far more of an eighteen year old a nineteen year old to assimilate to a different role on the court, perhaps one that they've never played before, versus having a twenty two to twenty three year old, a guy who's played three, four, sometimes even five years of caused basketball previously to come in to know how to adjust,
you know, not only because they've probably had to deputize in an unfamiliar position before, just because there's so much more mature physically, mentally understanding the game, and even you know, from that mentality aspects. Knowing conversations with players this offseason and during the preseason, everyone does seem laser focused on banner number nine, winning as a team, producing those team results.
And that's not to say that, you know. You know, to their credit, a lot of the even highly touted freshmen that came in during a John Caliperry era, would say the right things, you know, talk about wanting to win for the team, win for Kentucky, playing within that
team basketball concept. But it's hard when you're you know, when you know that you have a one and done player on the roster, or a player who's thinking one and done, to not think in the back of your mind about, Hey, they're worried about how their role, how their usage might affect their NBA draft stocks. You know, about how public or NBA scats excuse me, perceive them. But on this Kentucky team, these are guys who have
stuck around college basketball a long time. You know, there are many reasons now, especially with the portal and with NIL, why guys may elect to be in college three, four or five years instead of jumping earlier to the NBA.
But as you mentioned a great benefit of having a veteran laden team is that Mark Pope is probably far more comfortable asking, you know, for example, Jackson Robinson, a guy who's been with all these years, to do something a little bit different on the sport, or even a Kobe Brea, Kurk Crista and Ainsley almanor because they have that basketball acumen and because they're they're smart enough, seasoned enough to know how to, you know, kind of manipulate
their games to fit whatever square peg in a round hole type thing that Pope may have to fit them into due to injuries.
And it all starts Monday night. Cam Drummond or the HEROLD leader will be there to help Ben Roberts cover things in John Clay and Mark's story and or wait a minute, you're going to be covering a women's game Monday.
No, no, no, I'll be. I'll be straight up there at Jeff Arena. You know, the whole gang will be there. We'll have our women's reporter, Caroline mccowskis out for the LEA team opener. But it's it's all going to be happening at once now. As I, as I keep joking to people in the Herald Leaders sports chat, you know the offseason was great. Hope we got a lot of sleep, you know. John Hale got started early up on there on football coverage. But things are back to go. Is
there to sixty real fast, real quick, right now? And Duc will be here before we know it for the men's team as well.
Follow him on Twitter see Drummond ninety seven.
Thanks Cam much, appreciate it, Dick, Thank you.
Cam. Trying to chart shots that were going up so quickly reminds me when I was the stats guy for TV covers, when Marty Brenneman was doing our games and there was no computer. Trying to keep up with Patino's Bombinos nearly impossible. Lstar next on six thirty Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. Joining us now is a longtime friend of the show and a guy I love talking about horse racing with Ellis Star, the Uber Capper, and he of course is preparing as are all racing
fans for the Breeders Cup Big week. Ellis, this has got an excited guy like you.
Yeah, when you've.
Got this many racist for every division, the males, females, sprints and routes, grass, dirt and just all the various factors. And you know, with the Derby is such a cool event as well, when you've got twenty horses all bringing their A games. But now you've got thirteen races with horses all bringing their A games. Maybe it's fourteen I
lose track all bringing their A games. Needs division and it's a masterful puzzle and a lot of fun to try and decipher it and then hopefully be right a few times.
Del Mar Racetrack at in San Diego. I've driven by there, never been there, but everybody I know ls who's been there just raves about it. So that's on my bucket list to spend a day donating money at Delmar. Is that one of your favorite stops?
It is absolutely The backdrop is great, the beach and people walk in, you know, some people walking into bikinis and then they get suits and you know, it's just fantastic. And during the summer, of course, the weather is phenomenal.
In the eighties.
It's gonna be a little cooler in November, just like it is here in Lexington. About the same Mother actually, which is kind of interesting in the sixties, but it's a great track. Sandy's also beautiful, the mountains in the backdrop, and nothing is really keenom just because you're just looking out not just the airport but the whole area of central Kentucky and looking at Calumet and going east and just at west and just a beautiful view. But Delmar
is a great track. It's a wonderful course, and they don't run that much, so it's still kind of a niche and people I get excited about it, even the regular meat when it's not Breeders Cup.
This is the fortieth year. The fortieth anniversary was last year, but in the chronologically the forties two. It started in nineteen eighty four. John Gaines was one of the driving forces. They were just looking for a big event. Derby Day was great, but you know, the Triple Crown was only great if you had a horse going for it. The
classic races. But it's interesting to me going back that far Alice that it was a great idea that came to life, and I think everybody will agree that it's been a success.
There isn't success on a lot of least. Let me give a shout out to another person responsible said we just turned at one hundred and three last week. God bless him, and he was with mister Gaines and also President Keemlan and the execut State Police and just a fantastic guy, and that they had a lot of foresight.
And now it is. You know, they call the Biggest Cup World champions just for so many years and it kind of was, but it really is now because now you've got horses coming in from the Middle East and from Japan specifically, a lot and a lot of Europeans, and some of these races have horses bred in all kinds of places in South America, in Europe, and of
course in North America and primarily in Kentucky. But it is the World Championships now, so it's really taken it's really taken hold around the world.
And I al would like to say that it's like the All Star Game and the World Championship rolled into one, because everywhere you turn there's a really good horse, if not a great horse. And when I was working at the Channel twenty seven and covering whenever breeder I could breeders' cups, I look at the list of horses some of the storylines were pretty obvious. We had a limited number, and I'm like, where do we turn? Who do we talk to? I mean, you could talk to anybody and everybody.
Right, Yeah, that's true because you've got the greatest trainers in the world coming in, and the O'Brien and oh An, the jockeys of course, Aiding O'Brien and Ryan Moore and their team, Charlie Appleby and William Buick coming in from Europe, and just all the American invests are out here. And again every horse is bringing you know, should even the babies in the two year olds are bringing their eight games into this rate.
That's right. Well, let's talk about the Classic, and there are some names that are if you're just a casual racing fan, maybe around the derby, you'll recognize some of these names. Sierra Leone is a horse I liked early. I like fierceness as well. Sierra Loan is a great value bet right now twelve to one. But again, the Classic is such a tough race to handicap because these are more of the mature horses, and City of troya
right now is five to two. You won't make much betting on him elis, But that's a heck of a field. Fierceness is three to one.
Yeah, no, it's a great field. You've got the fierceness who missed the Derby or actually missed the Instrmt, paving him at fifteenth, and then won the two big three year old races they call it the Midsummer Derby travers Sierra Leone, who was Mike got picking a Derby I'm sure was yours and just was his own worst enemy, brushing with for every young down the stretch, and mister Van snuck up the rail there and tear rallied from eighteenth to lose my inches in that race. He's kind
of been his own worst enemy since then. He's got some bad habits. He gets going late, he kind of loses focus. He hasn't won since the Moo gramd Stakes, but he's always there and certainly there is value as I mentioned Fierceness of course those two and then for every young who ran the Derby then basically pointed for this race. He was off for five months. He wont to race Japan called Japan Dirt Classic at the classic distance of a mile on a quarter and he's back
so he fits in the race. Senior Buskador who won the twenty million dollars Saudi Cup in February as another horse, even though he was seventh in the last year's Classic. Bob Effort always has a horse, horse named Newgate, who was a horse that is the older horse. This year won the Sanday the handicamp at they call it the classic distance. Ushmittsoro, who was one of my picks in the Bretish Cup Classic last or the only man's fifth.
One of the other horses Dermosot Tadak. He was also back by the Japanese who ran second to Classic at twenty five to one last year. He's back and just tremendous stories.
I will talk.
About well Sex, we talk about City of Toury. You mentioned who a lot of people haven't heard of, and it's interesting because he's a Kentucky bred horse by champion, undefeated champion Justify, who of course won all quarter as part of his crown. He's out of the European mayor behind one of the best siders the world called Galileo, and it's just a question whether he can transfer his form. He's faster than any horse in the rights based on speed figures which kind of normalize for all the various
tracks around the world. But the question is whether they can run on dirt. And I've seen some pundits this year saying he still looks like a turf force, et cetera. But he's been training on the dirt all week since he arrived, and he's a three year old. Three year olds do very well in this race because they're just maturing.
They're like eighteen to twenty year old boys and they're just getting there, so they don't have an edge on older horses, but they still have maturing where the older horses are really physically as mature as they're going to get. So he's certainly interesting to five or two, he said, no value. The horse I'm most interested in, and this, of course is on my analysis at echo bay dot com and other places you can can find it. For the for the Classic, which is free, is a horse
named Next, and he's got some buzz to him. He's eight to one on the starting odds morning line. This horse is one thirteen twenty three. It's interesting. Is a lot of horses, just like people find out what their careers are later in life. And Next was claimed back in twenty twenty two by really good trainer that trains in Ohio, Kentucky named William Kallens Doug Kalns, and he
was an exclaimer. He was in a claimer race. We started out as really highly regarded and he was in a lot of good races and then he they said, well, you know, we dont know what he's going to amount to, and so we're going to put him in for a I think it was an allowance and optional claiming price race back then, and they put him in for sixty twenty five hundred and I'm trying to find the date right now to be sure because it's it's on the it's passed the twelve lines that are most pps, but
I have access the lifetime. So he was claimed in April twenty twenty two, eighteen loan. So he won a couple of races before that, three races he had won, and he'd won one by almost twelve lengths. He was well regarded and Collns claimed him for sixty two thousand times. It was the only time he was ever in for a claim and then he put him back in a turf race because he'd been running on dirt and turf and about mile mile to an eighth and he won.
And then three races later, late in September of twenty twenty two, they put him in a race in Delaware. It's a mile and a half race as scheduled for grass because again he'd run really well on the grass, and the race was taken off the grass, and they left him in the race because of weather, you know, And he won by eighteen lengths. And then all of a sudden they said, well, this is what he likes to do, and he has won. He had one third place, finished two after that actually at a Derby Day or
devery week on in twenty twenty three. But after that he's won seven in a row and he's won by a combined ninety lengths.
Wow.
And people will say, you know, what is he beaten? Et cetera, because these are all they're good races, but they're all not ninety dollaries. But the fact that is, it doesn't really matter what he's beaten. He's one from distances from milen three eights to mile and three quarters and he just runs near the lead, doesn't have to have the lead, and very very sustained. One of the things that's very cool. I think you and I may have talked about is the GPS data which is now
available horse racing through partners. And he doesn't slow down in the last five eighths of a mile. In his last race, for example, next ran thirty seven miles an hour and did not slow down the last quarter, which a lot of horses do. He just runs the same speed, and that's the kind of horse you wont he's cutting back again from mile and three's to a mile and a quarter, so it's a quarter mile less. But he seems like the kind of horse that just doesn't matter.
He'll be in a position and he just runs the same race. He doesn't get tired, and he can run all day. Whether he can run to this level and grade one with these horses, I don't know. But he's very, very interesting because you never knock an undefeated horse defeated in his last seven So he's really the horse I'm really interested in. And he offers value at eight to one.
Oh yeah, he's on the outside. He's in a fourteen hole, but again that's not like being on the outside with a derby. And are you am I'm Prob'm sure I've asked you this to the yours. Are you much of a post position guy?
A lot depends on the horse's running style and the distance of course. So you know, a mile and a quarter they've got a little more than a quarter mile to get to the first turn, right, So a horse like this can can drop over and be maybe two or three wide at the most going into the first turn. But I do will say overall, yeah, I mean, if a horse has got a lot of herby speed and a two turn race and he's on the outside, he's
got to use a lot of that speed. Or if they're on the rail, I mean a short race, they've got to use a lot of that speed, so horses don't cover him up. So's it's kind of positional and also based on style. In this case, the post positions doesn't matter a whole lok, because he gets himself in a good spot every single time. Very interesting, that's right.
In a race like this, he's gonna have a top notch rider. I'm not worried. The only time I worry about post visition is really the derby when you're on the rail or the two hole, because you're just gonna get crushed going to the first term. But that's why jockeys make a lot of money. We're talking with Lstar uber Kapper. We're talking of course about the Breeders Cup, and we'll come back with a few more questions for Elis on the other side of the break here on
six thirty WLAP Welcome back. We're talking with Lstar uber Capper and of course the Breeders Cup is coming up at del Mar this weekend. Ellis is a public handicapper, a blogger, a speaker. You define yourself as well or describe yourself as a fan educator. That's got to be a fun part of your job. I would think sharing.
Yeah, no, there's nothing more fun than Keeenland specifically and also Derby Week, but Kulin more often where I can get into some of the suites or the dining rooms
or meet people by the cloth. A lot groups reach out to be in Kum's and extremely supportive of people coming in and question them all over the country, some of them never been in the race before and never been to Kimum and just chat with them about today's races, about picking their own horses using the program, getting a quick handicapping lesson, and also you know how to bet and how it works, so they understand how to have a better day of the races. It's a kind of fun.
I so love the Breeders Cup as much as anything, just because of some of the great races I've seen through the years. The uh nineteen eighty eight well, and I'm going back, I know, but Sunday Silence was one of my all time favorite Derby winners and an easy goer. I mean, what great rivals. And they hooked up again
in the Breeders' Cup Classic. But I think ellis personal ensigns winning the Distaff in nineteen eighty and again coincidentally the same year, But that was such an incredible race because winning Colors goes out as she did in the Derby and tries to wire the field. That was her running style, and that's the way Lucas liked it. Personal Linsign was undefeated and this was going to be her last race. Everybody knew it, and overcame her at the wire by a nose. I mean, I was screaming at
the end of that race. That's what the Breeders Cup can bring out of this kind of competition, right.
Oh, absolutely, And even though we did lose one of the best contenders in the female division. But this depth version of Idiomatic, who's now been retired to breathing shit because she has my injury. We still have Torpedo Anna, who was the you know who won the Kentucky Oaks, took on the boys, lost by a nose to fierceness or a head in the travers and now is back
against the Phillies and Mayors and in the Distaff. And that's going to be exciting, even if there's no competition, which there might be, But even if there's not competition, I'm seeing a really good, good Philly the top of her game in that in that in that race before we moved to something else, and what else you're playing, but I want him to give one long shot out in the classics, please. So there's an interesting horse here, and those in you particularly will remember and those that
follow racing. Last last twenty twenty three run to the Derby, a horse won the blue Grass Stakes by the name of Tapa Trice right, and he had won the Tampa Bay Derby and he was a favorite of the Bluegrass. He won by a next very exciting finish, and then he finished seventh in the Derby and he's actually after the blue Grass Stakes. He lost four races in a row, and then Todd Fletcher, one of the best trainers of North America, decided, for whatever reason, maybe he was injured,
don't know, to give him time off. And he was awesome last August to twenty twenty three until July this year, so eleven months and he comes back. The first time he's facing older horses, and I'm guessing Todd's always been high on the horse that he Hod Fletcher wants to run him in the Classic, so he's plentying a method to do that, but avoiding some of the the fay horses. So he runs him in a race in New Jersey and Momus called the Mamoth Company, wins by five lengths.
He really gets his head in the game, you know, gets the horse excited. And then he runs him a mile on a court in a Jock Club Gold Cup, which a couple of these are coming out of and the only manages fourth. So then he try to figure out how to get him to this race. He runs him in a race called the Woodwork, which is a really important race in New York on September twenty eighth. He wins a race by three quarters of a length, and now he's improving again. He's a very interesting horse.
He's six for twelve, he's won a million, seven hundred thousand dollars. He's got again the top one of the top three trainers in the country year after year in top pletcher, one of the top three jockeys in the country, and I read OT's junior year after year, and he's going to be thirty one in the morning line. He's going to be twenty to one at post time, even though his his odds and his last three races have
all been two to one. So if anybody's looking for some value for a horse, definitely to make a win ben On winplay show whatever you want, throw him an exotics tap a price I think isn't to surprise a bunch of people because similar. First of all, you've got the breathing from mile on a quarter, even though he's only got one third place finish in three tries. But he's by sire tapping out of a Dunkirk Mayor, which is a lot of a lot of stamina. He has
the same almost same style as Next. I was talking earlier about the miles per hour and Next runs thirty seven to thirty eight. Well, Tepa Trice runs thirty five and thirty six and doesn't flow down. And his stride something else that we now are able to measure, which is really cool. He runs actually a bigger stride than next. His stride was twenty five and a half feet every stride for the last last half mile in the woodwards
and so again a horse. I don't know if I ever said this before, but I'm sure you've seen a lot of horses coming from way way back you to win a race. Well, it's actually an optical illusion in case you don't know that, because the horses are all slowing down. Outside grasp it's an optical illusion because all they're doing is the horses are coming from last to win, are just slowing down less than the rest. Or they're running the same speed, right, the other ones are backing
up into them. So Tapatrice is the horse that can do that. He might be the worst that looks like he's really, you know, coming from last to win. Reality, he's just not slowing down and the other horses are backing up. I consider that I.
Have bet a lot of horses that have backed up. I only have a couple of minutes left. But I do have to ask you about the juvenile because it always produces, it seems, you know, the horse everybody likes for the Derby the following year. But is East Avenue the way to go there? I mean, a son of of a speed horse Medaia Doro and one of the breeders' futurity.
He's a really good horse, and I like the fact he gets the ground saving rail. But there's two others that are just as good, and it's really gonna be a fantastic race if it turns out that way. Johnson's Way, who won the Iroquois at Churchill Downs even though it was a one turn mile, a son of news sire of a Coma. I'm really impressed by this horse because his debut he got pinched back to last and he came running and killed him and then he won the stakes race. So I like Johnathan's Way. I like also
Chancellor mkpatrick, who comes out of the Champagne Stakes. You get three winners of the grade of the really important stakes preps coming into the race in East Avenue, Johnson's Way and Chancellor mcpatrick. East Avenue will have to probably rate or come from just off the pace, even though
he's won both of his races. We can start to finish because Bob Baffort has three in the race, and I guarantee once we call a rabbit, probably get away Car which is basically the horse that's going to set the pace Toitizen Bull and get Away Car for Baffort. Both are horses that need the lead to win, that can't win without the lead. So East Avenue is going to have to relax. He's not as fast early as those two.
So much information, but I'll tell you Ellis Star it can help you out, and I urge you to take his advice. I have made money with Ellis. Thank you very much. Equabase dot com is where to go to find out about the Breeders' Cup. Llis. Hope you have a great weekend, my friend. Thank you, thank you so much.
Thanks Dick and everybody. Enjoy the weather and enjoy the great racing seeking at del one.
I'm not kidding. Ellis always has a pick of the day out there, and I have made money several times with Ellis. I don't know how he does it, but he finds these races and he's able to give you a tip or two. They're always worth a couple of bucks. That's going to do it thanks to my guest cam Drummond, Elis Starr and David Sister that said good night from the garage in Lexington.
Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? Nay