2024-07-23 - BBI

It's Stick Gabriel taking a little bit of time off, so we thought we would replace some of the best interviews from over the last several months. Please enjoy the best of the Big Blue Insider. Tonight, they will decide a national champion in Division one college baseball. It'll be either Texas A and M or Tennessee A team from the SEC. Of course, will not be the Kentucky Wildcats. As you will know, they lost to A and M. That was the first loss for the Wildcats in Omaha. Got a root for

A and M. How do you root for those Tennessee balls? But anyhow, whoever you're rooting for, it should be the games have been great. So yeah, that's tonight on ESPN on the Worldwide Leader. So best to

look to the aggies and the balls. A couple of recruiting notes where it is a recruiting season and Preston Bowman you may know that name because he's a wide receiver from Pickerington, Ohio. Josh Edwards are two four to seven sports reporting over the weekend that here's a guy who's committed to Kentucky committed Saturday, almost immediately he got an offer from the hometown Ohio State Buckeyes, but he says he is still quote locked on UK. Okay, that's fine. I

don't know if he's making a visit or not to Ohio State. But until he signs, as we all learned from Mac Jones who was one hundred percent committed to Kentucky and then went to Alabama. Until you get him with that ink on the dotted line, you just never know. But he says, even though the Buckeyes may have an offer, he will be a Kentucky Wildcat and he's a good one. So is basketball recruit Will Riley. But over the weekend he chose Illinois. He's a wing player, a five star.

However, this is not a big surprise. He was also looking at Arizona in Alabama ninth overall in the twenty twenty five class per rivals, but he announced yesterday he will go to Illinois. He is from Waterloo, Ontario, and we also looked at going with the New Zealand Breakers. That would have been interesting. So anyhow, who recruits from Illinois, Orlando and Tigwall, you know, good for him. Today is special for a couple of reasons.

I believe today's today they opened the new BUCkies, the second in the state of Kentucky. It's in Smith's Grove, which is outside of Bowling Green in Warren County. So yeah, we've got another BUCkies. Also, it was forty four years ago today that the film The Blues Brothers made its debut in theaters. First, to trade the Cadillac for a microphone. Then you lie to me about the band. Now you're gonna put you right back in the joint. They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God,

and there is a sports connection. There is a Kentucky connection, believe it or not. If you don't know what it is, well you don't really care about The Blues Brothers. But even if you weren't around, even if we're old enough to see it when it first came out, I'm sure you've seen it. Since it's all over TV. Try to see the unedited version if you can. It started as a real musical act on SNL Saturday Night Live with Dan Ackroyd and John Belushi. That's where it all began.

It wasn't the other way around as I used to think. And after they debuted, Ackroyd thought it would make a great movie. Around these guys, so he writes a script. There was three hundred and twenty four pages long, would have taken five and a half hours to make. They hired John Landis to direct that. He directed The Animal House. He got the script down to one hundred and twenty pages. You can see Landis in the movie if you've seen it. When the state troopers are chasing the Blues Brothers threw

them all in their cars. He's driving the police car. Also, Steven Spielberg has a cameo. He at the very end as the Cook County assessor's clerk when they come to give the money to save the orphanage. There's all kinds of interesting stories behind this movie. Carrie Fisher has a cameo. At the time she was dat eating Dan Ackroyd and apparently at one point on set was eating a salad or something choked on a Brussels sprout. Ackroyd saved her

life with the Heimlich maneuver. How about that the sunglasses are a vital part of the costume. They've never seen without it. Apparently John Belushi after almost every take, lost his so they had to buy hundreds of pairs of the sunglasses. Drugs everywhere on the set. Apparently, according to one report, there was cocaine written into the budget to keep the crew awake during long shoots. Naturally, Belushi abused it. Landis had to hire a bodyguard to look

after him. Guy was an ex Secret Service agent who guarded Richard Nixon. That's incredible. And by the way, speaking of those costumes, they were based on the look by Roy Orbison. I mean, there's so many nods to great music in this film. It's tremendous. And how's this for a cameo? Pope? John Paul the Second was in Chicago during the filming, visited the set. There's an actual photo of John Belushi kissing his ring.

That's incredible. They crashed one hundred and three cars. That was a world record at the time, stood for two years until Gone to sixty seconds wrecked one hundred and fifty. That stood until twenty oh three when the matrix reloaded. Movie wrecked more than three hundred cars. So that's the Blues Brothers. Now, what's the Kentucky connection joining us now? In our celebrity Hodeline as a man, you've heard him on my show, not in character, you've

seen him in character as one of the Go Big Blues Brothers. He plays Ellwood, and that would be the great Bol Robinson. You hear him on Double Q. You hear him on Sunday Morning Sports Talk and Bo. You used to occasionally produce this show, and you and I would banter a little bit, So you're familiar in many ways to our audience. I guess they're familiar with me too. And I I don't know what you mean by playing a character, because if you really do know me, Elwhen and I are

pretty similar. This is true. Well, let us get back to the Blues Brothers. I mentioned earlier. It's the forty fourth anniversary of the movie and you and give everybody Jake's real name, John Coffee. Yep, you guys started showing up dressed as the Blues Brothers, but in blue, the hats, the jackets, you have the sunglasses going. How did that start? We had talked about Actually, if you want to get right down to it, John and I met on a movie set about fifteen years ago and

we got to argue on about Kentucky basketball. He said something and then I snapped back at him and I said, no, you're wrong, And that's how we ended up becoming pretty much best friends. So we've always enjoyed UK basketball, we're super fans, you know this, and we enjoy movies and media and bonded over our love of the Blues Brothers and the music that comes along with it and Acroid and blueshe and the whole Saturday night live culture from

back in the seventies. And we talked about, hey, if we started this Blues Brothers thing at Repp Arena, how can we do this? So about five years ago, five and a half years ago, I was at JC Penny. I looked over and there's a blue blue blazer and I said, I called him, I go, I found it. Ah, I grabbed it and he ordered one because they didn't have its size and big Blue manus twenty nineteen. So when we debuted the Go Big Blues Brothers. Nice and by the way, I kind of buried the lead on bo but Bou.

For however many years you ran the UK network the technical end of things. You were the guy who was the one who coordinated commercials and programming. You pushed the buttons that got us all in the air. How long did you do that? Twelve years? Wow? Man? Yeah that's years. And I love right there, because folks, when you're doing that job, you're not at the game obviously, And so Bol made the sacrifice but did a great job. We all had a great deal of faith in Bowl.

But now you can't get him out of Upperna. And one of the great things I felt boul about you and John and the Go Big Blues Brothers was your devotion to Joby Hall. I just thought that was great. Well, we grew up watching Joby Hall. When you asked me who got you into Kentucky basketball, Well, I was born in seventy seven, so I was a little too young to remember Jack Gibbon James Lee until much later in life. But eighty four eighty five, when I really started getting into Kentucky basketball,

it was Joebey Hall. That was the coach I grew up watching. Some kids grew up watching Patino, I get it nowadays kids grew up watching Cali Perry and now Mark Pope. So we came up with the whole theme, how do we embrace joe By Hall and celebrate the coach that he is,

and not only the coach but the individual the person as well. And we you know this, we just always made a big deal about Joe B. Hall, and first time we got a picture taken with him, he yelled at us and said, I want a blue jacket, a blue jacket the Blues Brothers. I want to be a Blues brother. And I said, Coach Hall, you are the original go big Blues brother. And you got him one, didn't you. No, we did not, because his

son a few weeks later we ran into him. His son and brother Jake said Coach Hall wants a blue blazer and his son said he has plenty of blazer or something that figure money, figure money. That's right, because he showed up in one, and I thought you all got it for him. But yeah, he actually wore one when he was coaching. So but no, you had pictures with him, and you also, by the way, you've been anointed by the Pope, by the new Pope. He saw you

guys. There's a video online of him making the rounds and r up the day he was introduced. He spotted you guys in the front row and loved it. And since then you've had a picture taken with him. So the circle is complete, isn't it. It is? And it goes right back to the Blues Brothers. We're on a mission from God. We're now on a mission from the Pope. That's right. What has been the fan reaction because clearly there's at least one generation and don't even know what the Blues Brothers

movie is. Sadly, but I got to think when they see you guys coming, it's a lot of fun. Well it was when we debuted this. It was either going to be a flip flopp or fly or failure. Yeah, and you are correct. The older generation gets it and they appreciate it so much. The younger generation they're like, who are these dudes in blue hants, blue sunglasses that are very stoic at times, but very enthusiastic about Kentucky basketball. And then compared to say, go take a picture with

these guys, Go go take a picture with them. This is awesome, this is legendary. We'll get it. We'll explain it to you much later. That's fantastic. And you guys don't just show up at games either. I've been at many events, gatherings and things like that, and suddenly you guys pop in. How do you decide what is it? Just based on your calendar, your respective calendars. I'm not doing anything, let's go or how do you do this? Right? It's respective calendars and whether or not

Brother Jake has served all of his community service. No, I'm just kidding. It's we just kind of pick and choose and if we can do it, we'll do it. If not, no big deal, we'll figure it out later on. Are you or were you a big Blues Brothers fan? Because that came out I guess right about the time you were born, and of course it's been on TV one hundred thousand times and so much have been said written about it. I didn't know some of the facts that I just

rattled off. I didn't know, you know how they say I had a world record at the time for cars destroyed in that movie, things like that. So were you a fan once you saw the movie? Well, when the movie came out, I was only three years old. I had no clue about Ackroyd and Belushi until I remember watching the movie one Saturday afternoon on

TBS. And it may have been while the Braves was in a rain delayer or something, and for some reason, these two characters just captured my mind and the music just gave me a joelt all of a sudden and I'm watching it with my dad, and he says, you're not watching anything I don't know already, And I said, what do you mean. He goes, these guys are on Saturday Night Live, but let me show you something else.

And then he showed me his record collection and it was all this great rhythm in blues and souls out of Memphis, and otis writing Wilson Pickett, Booker T and the MG's and he said, the guy with the long hair playing guitar, that's Steve Cropper. The guy playing bass, that's Donald Duck

Dunn. They were remembers of Booker T and the MG. Now all of a sudden, I start making the connection between the Blues Brothers and just the resurgence of rhythm and blues and soul music and the impact that they had on not only me as a kid, but kind of bringing forth the music of their generation and bridge that gap to myself. And I thought, James Brown's

pretty good. Franklin, It's awesome. But not only does the Blues brother not only does that music spotlight rhythm and blues and soul, but there's a little bit of country in there, both kinds country and western. If you listen to it. I think that's the most off quoted line in the entire movie, don't you We have both kinds of music, country and western. Yeah yeah, but there's so many maybe well that between that and run a Mission from God, so you know, yeah, but that's the thing when

you can quote multiple lines. By the way, you mentioned James Brown, who has a cameo. So he once yah took the Blues Brother's mobile on a drive and ended up about one hundred miles as we got lost from Chicago. He gets pulled over with no ID and the police are like, you're what You're who? Huh? And they had to call John Landis, the director, to get him to vouch. And then they're like, oh, the James Brown. Uh. And another thing I read was that Aretha obviously

lip synced the song think, which is such a great song. That's what the song they singing the diner, and it had been so long since she had done that song. They it took multiple takes for her because she couldn't exactly remember the words. But it all just came together, didn't it. It did. And you took about James Brown and Aretha Frank Flung. Look at the cameos and some of the appearances of who was in this. John Candy, yes, I'll see out to me. Uh. In the church

scene with James Brown. Shakaka is the soloist in the choir. Joe Walsh makes an appearance at the land thing when they're doing Jailhouse Rock. He's the first one to jump off on the table and start dancing. Really, Yes, that's uncle Joe Walsh. Yeah. Steven Spielberg, Yes, at the Cook County Tax Assessors Office. That's right, he's in this. So it's kind of amazing how they pulled these little cameos. And if if you watch

and you know who's who, it's pretty intriguing. You wouldn't recognize Spielberg. I never knew that until I saw the picture. And John Landis, you know, when when the troopers are driving through the mall, Landis is behind the wheel, that's the director. So it's it's so great for those reasons and more. We're talking with Bo Robinson. He is Ellwood of the God Big Blues Brothers. A couple of minutes left with Bo. You hear him

on Sunday Morning Sports Talk. Occasionally hear him on Double QR. Sister station. Before I let you go, you were telling me they're are Kentucky connects to the Blues Brothers the movie itself, there is, and I'll start with the first one. Charles Napier, who played Sucker McElroy, lead singer and driver of the Winnebago for The Good Old Boys. He was born in Mountain

Union, Kentucky. He lived in the United States Army nineteen fifty four, came back, graduated from Western Kentucky, became an assistant basketball coach at Allen County High School, and then he moved to Florida, and then he came back to coach high school basketball again in Western Kentucky. So when you look at that and you think, wait a minute, Western Kentucky, he was a basketball coach. He's in the Blues Brothers. This is some pretty good

trivia right here with the Good Old Boys. Yeah, and I think that's one of the gems of the Blues Brothers to go in dig deep, do your deep dive and find out, like we were talking about some of these cameos and some of these lesser known actors, by the way, that we're in the Blues Brothers. Tucker McElroy did an episode of the original Star Trek. It's the one where they encountered the space Hippies and he was one of them. Is back. He went from good old he went from Spock to

the good old Boy. I don't know, but he has a ton of acting. He has a ton of acting credits to his name. The other one that I find very very interesting is Ralph Footie and Ralph Foodie played the dispatcher in The Blues Brothers who relayed the message to law enforcement that unnecessary violence and the apprehension of the Blues Brothers has been approved. Ralph thirty had a handful of acting credits. But the connection to Kentucky is he is buried in

the Lexington Cemetery when he got out of acting. I think he moved to Lexington mid nineties to raise forces and he is very I don't think he's buried, interred as the proper word. My sister would get after me about that over at the Lexington Cemetery. But go back to home alone. And when Macaulay Culkin is watching that gangster movie, Ralph Foodie is the guy on TV and he says, keep the change of belting animal. That's Ralph Foodie.

And the Blues Brothers lying, keep it change it feels the animal. By the way, congratulations, you've been on the show before. So is your sister. You're the only brother sister combination who's ever been on the Big Woo in Sider. Well, I appreciate that, and to be honest, I can't keep up with her. She's on another level. She really is Boul Robinson. He is Elwood of the Big Blue, Big Blues Brothers. Thank you so much, sir. We'll see us down the road, Thank you

much. Coming up in just a few minutes. Van Hile's here on six thirty Wlap's one hundred and six miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes. It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit it. We're listening to the best of the Big Woo Insider here on six thirty WLAP. It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome back to the Best of the Big Blue Insider. Welcome back. Quick segment here because we went along with the Blues Brothers and especially with the Go Big Blues Brothers. A couple

of headlines for you. You already know. Scottie Scheffler won his sixth tournament in his last ten starts. Here's the list of people who have amassed six wins in a PG eight Tour season prior to July first, since nineteen sixty Arnold Palmer did it in sixty and sixty two, and now Scheffler did it in twenty twenty four. That's it. Nobody else. But of course the day was somewhat marred a little bit by these clowns who protested with smoke bombs

breaching the green while play was underway. They wrapped it up, people were arrested, and look, I am all for the awareness about climate change, I really am. I'm big on that, but I can't stand stuff like this because what does it accomplish. One thing doesn't accomplish anything in terms of

helping us with climate change problems. No, all it does is underscore for people who either don't care about climate change, which is crazy, or people who really aren't sure about it. But all we know now is these people in particular, and for all we know, there are folks out there making a blanket assessment climate change protesters are nuts. Will anything changed because of what they did yesterday? In the big picture, No, it won't. So

Why waste your time, Why waste everybody's time? Why waste law enforcement's time? It makes zero sense to me, it always says. Look, I realized that without protests, the Vietnam War might have droned on. But smoke bombs at a golf course that ain't gonna get it done. Folks, you're listening to the best of the Big Blue and side more to come here on six thirty WLAP. It's Dick Gabriel, Welcome back to the Best of the Big Blue. Insider joining us now in the celebrity highline as a longtime friend.

He's been on the show many times. Because Alan Stein I like to call the godfather of minor league baseball in Lexington, Aaron I thought about you. Allen was instrumental in bringing the Legends to Lexing, but he's also got a lot of experience with other teams, including the Omaha Storm Chasers by coincidence, but I wanted to ask you you. I thought of you immediately when I read the story on the Athletic about the robot umpires and the moves that

professional baseball is making. And what fascinated me more than anything, Alan was that players and coaches are opposed to using them full time, but in some minor leagues they will keep using them full time, but they're moving toward some days yes, some days no. What can you tell us about that? And if anything, and and where at least the minor leagues are in this

is it unfolds? You know that that's really interesting. Here in Omaha watching the game, I was sitting with Marty Cordero, who is our GM for the Omaha Star Chasers, and in the UH we were we were watching the game and and I said to Marty, are they using the A B S system here? Because that the umpires I've noticed in in both of the UK games were very slow, slow with their calls. Yes, UH at home plate. I don't know if you noticed that, but he said not,

yeah, very deliberate and he said, no, they're they're not. But it opened up a whole conversation about the A B S system and how he liked it. And this was before the Commissioner's announcement came out. So I can tell you this what Marty told me about what UH other gms at Triple A UH and the players and even the fans are thinking, is that they don't want they want to get it right and they don't want to slow the

game down too much. So with the commissioners uh suggesting here is that the fans, the players, and and uh the administrators in baseball all have been surveyed and nobody is really one hundred percent on board with the a BS system itself by itself in those in those leagues and on those days when they use

that, not everybody's really happy with it. The strike zones, UH don't they don't have they don't seem to have the technology down right yet where they can get you know, these new the new sweepers, you know, the slider curve things that they're going through the strike zones that don't really match up with what the players and folks in baseball have been used to. So they're not real crazy about that. But what they do like is getting it right

and the challenge system has been pretty successful. So it looks like the Commissioner's Office has agreed based on based on what the surveys have been, that they're going to be moving I would say by twenty twenty six at the latest, possibly in twenty five to the big leagues, but more likely twenty six using this modified system where they will be using basically the challenge system. Now, the big question has become to how much do we want to do that.

You know, it's sort of contradictory in that the Commissioner's Office and Baseball have embraced this let's speed the game up thing, you know, let's don't have too many delays. On the other hand, how many you know, by using the challenge system now, adding that to the abs, it will slow the game down a little bit, And so the question has become how many

of the challenges do we do? So interestingly enough, this year, it's starting on June the twenty fifth, you know, which is next week, they're going to be different TRIPA A. They're going to go with a maximum a straight challenge system with a maximum of three challenges per game, and of course, if you get it right, you get an additional challenge, just like in the other challenge system. But in double A they're gonna try it

with only two. And the fans surveys have been coming the player surveys have been kind of mixed on that, but the fan surveys have been coming back that they prefer the lower number. So when you have a challenge system, where three times a game each team can challenge a ball or a strike ball, that's six and if you get it right, that adds on another two times a game, so that's eight times eight stoppages. Now, the good news is, and I've seen it in action, the good news is the

challenge system is almost instantaneous. It really doesn't it really doesn't slow the game

down. The the player, the hitter or or the hitter will step out of the box and he'll look at the umpire and do the you know, the ear thing the challenge signal, and it's almost instantaneous because you know it's already there, the ABS system, it is in place, and so they get I'm kind of have a little buzzard and it'll tell him right or wrong, and the umpire will call a baller a strike based on the challenge. So I was talking to Jeff piicorrel and he had a great idea with that

technology. Or maybe it's similar, I don't know, but you know they've got the similar technology I guess in tennis. Does it work the same way, Yes, yeah, it does exactly. And yeah, and we've got used to the tennis thing that's been in place for quite some time, and you never in tennis see an argument. Once the challenge is their boom, it's gone, and they move right on. I suspect that we're going to like, we're going to get used to this pretty quickly. I don't want

to see the game slow down either. You know, it's interesting. We're all out here at Omaha. The only objection anybody ever has. We all love college baseball, but the only objection is is that the damn games just got too long. And now those of us in in professional sports aspect baseball, have gotten really used to the legends. For example, our average game this year is two thirty one nice, and yeah it is. It just moves right along, and you don't want it to you know, you know,

you don't get used to something. And then go to a college game where in the college World Series the average game is close to four plus powers. That's a big difference from two and a half to four and you know, the game's great and there's a lot on the line, so we don't really notice it as much. But when you just go to a regular college baseball game and it gets to three and a half or four hours, you

begin to really notice it. So you know in the big leagues and in professional baseball, they've embraced this new timing piece, and I think you here to stay, and we adapted to it very quickly. I believe that the ADS system and with the challenge, with the challenge being the key element of that, whether they end up with two or three challenges, I really believe we're going to adapt to that almost overnight. It won't take any time at all. Allen Stein of the Legend is my guess. We'll come back and

talk more about baseball and robot umpires with Allen. We're listening to the best of the Big Blue Insider. More to come here on six thirty w LAP. Hey, it's Dick Gabriel and you're listening to the best of the Big Blue Insider. I'm talking with Alan Sign, who is not just a minor league baseball fan, but a Kentucky baseball fan as well. UK fan.

Will get back to that in just a moment, But we've been talking about the fact that the minor leagues are trying it out robot umpires, maybe for every pitch of every game, maybe for some games during the week like midweek games, and not on the weekends. And then maybe just for challenges. And I find a really interesting allan that you all and I'm talking about minor

league executives, and you refer to this before the break. You've really made a lot of the surveys you've done, not just with players and managers and coaches, but with the fans, you know, and you talk about some of the responses, but have you gotten a lot of responses from fans? Absolutely, you bet the fans really like being a part of this decision making process. I will tell you this, though, I have friends all at

all levels in affiliated and independent baseball. The what's crazy? Everybody, everybody, everybody that you talk to, says, let's get to a system. If you and the players, especially some players, you know, at single as they'll have one system. Then at double A they go to another system. They get to triple A and it's every other day, or you know three three days a week, fifths four days a week, cats. Everybody

is saying, let's just get to a consistent system. I think universally everybody in in professional baseball has said, Okay, we know this is coming, it's going to happen, let's just go ahead and do it. And the Commissioner's office is getting a lot of praise. You know, love him or hate him. He has been very, very committed to including the fans in these conversations, and I can tell you in at the minor league baseball level,

even in independent baseball, that's been very much appreciated. And I think that helps in the adaptation and the embrace of these new rules moving forward. Now there are some that that the fans are universally against. There's one thing that has already begun, and you saw it at the SEC tournament. Is this double bag the first to baseball, two first bases, one white and one green. I haven't found a single person who think that's I think that's

a good idea. You know that that's a bridge too far. But you know, generally speaking overall, even with the robot i'ms which you might have thought might not be something that fans would embrace, they actually really have. And including the fans has been a key to getting all of this stuff so seamlessly involved in moving the game forward. You know, I happened I'm an outlier. I happen to like the double bass simply because I've umpired baseball.

And that's a tough situation. Man down there at first base, a lot going on with the ball and the runner and the field are all arriving at the same time. I got anything that makes it, you know, And not to get off topic, but the one rule I wish that they would have kept on some levels and implemented on others. But they used to have a check swing rule about breaking the plane at the front of the plate with a bat or the front hip if you're in the back of the box.

That made it easier on everybody, and they just didn't stick with it. I don't get that, but you know how baseball is. Before I let you go, Alan, I mentioned UK baseball and you and I have talked about this before. You've been in Omahaw cheering on the catch as well as the stormchasers. I know some people feel compelled to choose between one or the

other, and you really don't have to do you. I mean, it's it's not apples and oranges, but it's almost two entirely different seasons, two different I won't say styles of baseball, but just two different worlds, and you can enjoy both. Well. It's interesting. I've had the opportunity both in Lexington and in Omaha to experience college baseball at a very high level while still being in being able to embrace professional baseball. The seasons overlap a little

bit, not really very much. In Lexington, for example, as great as a season as we had with UK, I think there were only two games that really overlap that mattered to the Legends and the UK baseball team, So the fans have the opportunity to do both. They really are different experiences. I love, you know. One of my favorite things is when we

host the KHSAA the high school baseball. I just love that because the energy is different and the cheering and all the different things, and collegiate baseball is the same thing. Professional baseball is a whole different experience and the level of baseball. If you're a baseball purist, you know, collegiate baseball is a very different animal, even than low a like single A baseball that we had in Lectington. They're very, very different when you're talking about just baseball itself.

You can embrace both. We certainly do in Lexington and in Omaha where it's at the peak. We've got to triple a very competitive baseball program with the Kansas City Royals. You know, the stone Chasers once again have the very best record in all of minor league baseball again this year. And our crowds are great and continue to be. And there's there's a little bit overlap with the College World Series, but you're there, You've seen it. There's

no diminution of all of enthusiasm or fan base. They've got thirteen thousand season ticket holders to the College World Series. Like that, thirteen thousand people in Omaha and surrounding go to the College World Series every single day. Yep,

it's great. It's just awesome, it really is. And before I let you go do the storm Chaser, you guys shall have I hope the Bob Gibson statue out front, Oh absolutely one of the you know, when I am dead and gone, that will be one of the milestones in my career that I'm most happy about. Yeah. In fact, this week I got to visit with that on the phone with Win Gibson, Bob's wife. After Bob passed away, we stayed in touch and yeah, you know that that's

statue's terrific out there. Is my all time favorite pitcher and just I got to meet him once and that was well, and let me just add one other real quick thing, if you'll indulge me. The passing of Willie Mays really really hit me hard. I The very, very very first baseball game I ever attended was at Crosley Field in nineteen fifty nine with my dad,

and we were there because my dad was such a Willie Mays fan. We went to see the Giants and I remember, and you're probably gonna hear me say this again, somewhere along the way, I remember, I don't know who won, you know, I don't know who did what, but I do remember that Willie Mays was in center field for the Giants and that Frank Robinson was in ricefield for the Reds and I was in love for the rest of my life. And you know, that was nineteen fifty nine. So

yes, you know, sixty six years ago or whatever. That's great. And so Willie May's passing, especially this week, you know, with Jerry West having just passed, and right before that Bill Walton and I got to see Jerry West play at the uk I T in nineteen fifty nine. Yeah, you know, so we're losing our heroes. We're losing our heroes. Sure are well and thank you for sharing. Thank you for your time and keep us posted on robot MS. You got it, talk you sing,

Dave. You're listening to the best of the Big New Insider. Our number two is next here on six thirty w lap. Hey, it's sick Abriel. Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. Our number two taking a little time off, so please enjoy the best of the Big Blue Insider. Joining us down our celebrity hotline is a guy who has not been with the show. You may know his work though, Keith O'Brien, who is an award winning journalist, a best selling author, and right now he has a book

I can't wait to read. It's out just in time for Father's By the way, Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose and the Last Glory Days of Baseball. Keith, welcome, Hey Dick, thanks for having me. You are a Cincinnati kid, right, I mean, what was this a laborer love? It had to be, yeah, Cincinnati born and raised. I was born in Cincinnati in the nineteen seventies, raised there in the nineteen eighties. I'm too young to remember the Big Red Machine years,

the seventy five seventy six. But you know, I, you know, so of course I'm raised on those stories. I'm you know, in the wheelhouse of my love for baseball. When Pete Rose is traded back to the Reds from the expos in nineteen eighty four, and and you know, probably like most people, you know, I remember where I was on the night that Pete Rose set the all time head record in September nineteen eighty five. So you know, this, this story, you know, is in part,

you know, was the wallpaper of my childhood. But I approached the book the way I've approached all my books. This is narrative nonfiction, reported nonfiction. You know, there's no me, there's no I in this story. I wanted to get inside the Pete Rose story and hopefully tell it in a way that it's never been told before. You truly had to draw upon

your journalistic skills, didn't you, because there's so many layers. You're absolutely right about that, Dick, Yeah, I mean, you know, the way I began to think about Pete Roses, he's he's like a son in a universe that that he created by his own hand. And and you know, there's a gravitational pool to that, to that place, and once you get sucked in to Pee Rose's universe, as many people have over the decades, you're you're sort of trapped there, whether you want to be or not.

And you know it was, you know, certainly reporting the book, you know, came with many challenges for those reasons, you know. I, you know, I did want to get access to Pete Rose. I did want to speak with him. I did ultimately do that. I mean, he he granted me twenty seven hours of recorded interviews before he ultimately stopped calling me back, you know, which he did at some point. Why

do you think he stopped calling you back? Well, you know, Pete, like a lot of people, you know, struggles to talk about his his missteps in life. But I think p Rose, especially more more so than most you know, And I, you know, I wanted to tell the whole story here. This book, my book, Charlie Hustle is is unique in that I'm not here to make a case for Pete Rose. I'm

not here to make a case against Pete Rose. I wanted to look at his story through the prism of history, tell that story with granular reporting, and then just write the story. Let people come to their own conclusion. In order to do that. You know, we're going to talk about everything, and we're going to talk about the glory days of baseball, and there were many for Pete Rose. That is why he becomes not just a Cincinnati icon, but an American icon. You know, by the end of the

nineteen seventies, Pete Rose is one of the most popular American period. Wow. So we're going to talk about those things. But I do also need to talk about the missteps and the misdeeds, and in particular the gambling. You know, I wanted to. I wanted this book to maybe explain what happened in a way that it's never been explained before. We're talking with Keith

O'Brien. He is the author of a new book, Charlie Hustle. And you just alluded to the subtitle which includes the last glory days of baseball. Why did you include that in the title and where do you go with that? Well, it's really just subtext here for the entire narrative. You know, p Rose is in is in professional baseball for thirty years, and think about that for a second. Thirty years. He is a rookie minor leaguer in the summer of nineteen sixty and he's banned from baseball as a manager in

August nineteen eighty nine, thirty seasons. And in that time, everything changes in America. Everything changes in baseball. You know, when when p Rose comes up in the nineteen sixties, baseball is still a raw and unpolished national pastime. It's filled with lots of characters who did and said things both on

and off the field that you could never get away with. Today. It was, you know, you know, also a league where even the most famous players, you know, often had to work off season jobs in order to make end meat. You know, all that changes by nineteen eighty nine. You know, the players, of course, are making more money thanks to free agency. The owners are making buckets more money, and the league, in the weeks just before the first allegation of the peace gambling on baseball,

the league signs first billion dollar television deal. You know, baseball essentially has gone corporate. And and you know, we see that even play out on the field. You know, in the nineteen sixties and seventies, scores were settled between players on the field. You know, you could slide hard in the second base and not be ejected. You could hit a pitch, you could a pitcher, could you know, put a fastball in someone's back,

to brush somebody back and not be ejected or anything. You know, by the eighties, all that's changed too, and we see those changes still today. And I think, just you know, the final note on that, Dick is, you know, I'm still a huge baseball fan. Baseball, of course still matters, but you know, it doesn't occupy a place in the American contract today like it did in the sixty seventies and eighties.

It simply doesn't, no, And I was one of those kids, Keith, who would every morning study not just the box score of my team, but every box score. And when I was young, and I'm younger than you are, and there weren't as many teams, I was an American League kid because I was a Mickey Manto fan. I could tell you the starting lineup in every American League team and their top two pitchers. You know.

It just there are just so many other sports now and baseball has slid to I don't know where you'd rank it among the popular sports, but yeah, you know you mentioned a period where there were characters and boy, Pete Rose was front and center, wasn't he. Well, you know, he absolutely

was. And you know, I think one thing that, you know, one reason why I wanted to write the book Sick is I think in the last thirty five years, since Pete Rose has been banned from baseball and has made mistake after mistake off the field, I think we have forgotten why we ever cared about Pete Rose in the first place. I think we forgot who he really was. And you know, to go back and live inside the story as I did, you really do see why he becomes such a big

deal. It's not just because he's, you know, sprinting down to first base on a walk. It's not just because he's sliding headfirst into third. There is something about him and the way he plays and the way he approaches the game that really captivates America and really captures, frankly, something about the American spirit. I mean, if you think about think about it for a second, this whole notion of hustling that is part and parcel of the American

story. I mean, it's the story we tell our children and our grandchildren. If you if you work hard, if you try hard, if you hustle, anything can happen. That's the story that we tell ourselves about America, and frankly, that's the Pete Rose story. I think that's the big reason why we were so enamored with him, despite you know, his obvious flaws and folds that were oftentimes just off stage and known to people, you know, in the inner circle of the Cincinnati Reds. Oh yeah, yeah.

And I truly believe just exactly what you just said that because he embodied the way people believe the game should be played, and he reached the highest of highs in the game, but then he's banned for life the lowest of lows. It's such a tragic story, if that's the right. I don't know if that's a proper word, but it's it's pretty sad. Oh, I agree with you. I've honestly, you know, began to think about

this narrative. The narrative I was writing as a Greek tragedy, you know, a Greek tragedy that just happened, frankly to be playing out in and around in American baseball. Right, That's exactly what it was. It has all the elements of a Greek tragedy. You know a compelling and sympathetic character

who comes from nothing. You know, an ordinary man in almost every way, who has achieved extraordinary success, beyond his wildest dreams, beyond anyone's wildest dreams, and then loses it all, you know, through his own choices, his own addictions, his own decisions. I mean that is a tragedy. We're talking with Keith O'Brien. He is an award winning journalist and a

best selling author. He has written a book called Charlie Hustle and it's out just in time for Father's Day. Will talk more with Keith after the break up. You're listening to the Best of the Big Blue in Cider. More to come. You're on six thirty w lap. It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome back to the Best of the Big Blue. Insider. My guest is Keith O'Brien. He is an author an award winning journalist. He has written a book called Charlie Hussele The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose in the Last Glory

Days of Baseball. Keith, prior to the break you were talking about Pete's relationship with his teammates and just black coincidence. My broadcast partner on Kentucky Baseball on the SEC Network is Doug Flynn, who played for the Big Red Machine teams and was part of the trade that brought Tom Seaver to Cincinnati and infamous trade in New York. I guess REDGS fans kind of liked it. But

he and Pete were close. Pete introduced Doug to Doug's wife. Pete was the guy who came into the Doug out during a game and told Doug, hey, you're going to be traded in the Mets. So yeah, so they've been friends for a while, but Doug is still miffed at Pete for what he did and really not apology ding to his teammates. I guess he's kind of obstinate like that, isn't he. Well, of course I know

the story of Doug Flynn. I interviewed Doug for the book. I interviewed many of Pete's former teammates and and and colleagues, his opponents on other teams. I interviewed anybody I could who crossed paths with Pete Rose in the nineteen sixties, seventies, and eighties in any significant way. And you know Doug's feelings about Pete are similar to to many other players that I interviewed. You

know, they respect the way Pete Rose played on the field. Frankly, many of them were in awe of the way he played on the field, But lots of them do have problems with how you know, how he handled himself off of it bacically, you know, his decision to gamble, and then and then you know lie about his decision to gamble the reds, and I do think ultimately it is the lie that that hurt Pete Rose and that her baseball more than the act of gambling itself, no question, you know,

based on my reporting, This isn't my opinion, Dick, this is you know, based on my reporting, If Pete Rose it was honest in early nineteen eighty nine when he was first you know, accused of betting on baseball, If he's honest at any point that spring, as Major League Baseball now begins to build a dossier of factual evidence that shows he's been betting on

baseball, the whole narrative is different. Yes, don't mean, I don't mean to suggest that Pete wouldn't have gotten in trouble, that Pete wouldn't have been suspended or that maybe he wouldn't be sands. I do think he would have faced the serious punishment for those choices. But one thing we have forgotten in the last thirty five years is that, you know, this was bad

for baseball in nineteen eighty nine. You know, Bart Shiamatti, Commissioner of Baseball, Favin and his deputy, they didn't want this scandal, you know, staining the game. And so if they could have done anything to salvage piece in some way and put him back together again, I believe they absolutely would have done that. But he can't be honest. He can't do it. And you know, I spent a lot of time trying to understand why.

And you know, I've really identified two reasons, Dick, about why he could he couldn't be honest in nineteen eighty nine or for years and years afterwards. The first is simply that you know, p Rose succeeds as a player and fails as a person for the very same reasons. You know, the same qualities that make him a successful player and iconic player are the same reasons why he's going to, you know, unravel as a man. You know, he plays with fury, he refuses to be vulnerable on the field,

and he always believes that he's going to prevail. These are you know, these are real reasons why Pete succeeds as a player. Those same things, his intensity as a person, his refusal to be vulnerable, his refusal to be seen as weak, and his belief that he's going to prevail, is the exact same reasons why he can't be honest in nineteen eighty nine or

for years after. But I do think there's one other reason, and I think it's an important one and one that wasn't really talked about in nineteen eighty nine, but I think should be today, And that is based on my reporting. And I'm talking about interviews with people who are Pete's closest friends in the nineteen eighties, people who had a front row seat to his gambling. They all said that Pete was absolutely addicted to gambling. He was addicted.

And what do addics do when confronted with the truth of their problem. They diminish and they deny. And I think for all those reasons, you know, Pete can't be honest and and and he's going to go down. Listen, when he would come to Keenland to the racetrack. Here in Lexington, he'd be up in the press box and there was a betting window in the rear of the press box, but they would ask us to give Pete his

privacy and we would be yeah, that's fine. But after the day was done and he was gone, if you walk back there and looked at the losing tickets he left behind, it was staggering. How much money he gambled away just just unbelievable. And the explanation you give about his refusal to be vulnerable is God, that's got to be the best explanation I've ever heard.

Did you have any inkling going into this project that that might be what developed in terms of your perception about him, because I think you nailed it right there. You know, well, thank you, Dick. I. You know, I didn't have any expectations or preconceived notions about about why, you know, why this happened, why it had to go down this way. You know, anytime I do any kind of project, you try to set

your preconceived notions aside and let the reporting guide you. And you know, I have to say, you know, even though in the end Pete did stop calling me back, you know, for whatever reason. I am really grateful that I did have that access, because it was through the access and through the questions that I was able to ask Pete directly, that I was

able to begin to wrap my mind around what what happened here. And you know, you know, as an example of that, you know, in April nineteen eighty nine, two months into the scandal, you know, Major League Baseball now has an incredible and beluminous amount of information related to Pete scambling, and they lay it out out for him in a two day deposition, a secret deposition inside a church in Dayton. And even faced with all those

black and white facts, Pete can't tell the truth. And I asked him why, and he said simply that he was fighting for his life at that point. He was fighting for his career. He was fighting for his livelihood and he could not quit. He would not give an inch. And what's more Pete rose than that. Yep. Yeah, he ran into them the way he ran into Ray Fosse at the plate in the All Star Game back in the day. But he got the worst of it, didn't he.

Man, I cannot wait to read this book. Maybe I should have read it before I talked to you, but I just wanted to get with you prior to Father's Day. Like I said, this is going to be a great Father's Day gift. One last question, real quickly. I just got a couple of minutes left. But there are at least a dozen other books about Pete Rose going into this project, Keith, what was your mission in terms of how this book was going to be different? Well, I would

say two reasons, you know. The first is I feel like all too often with projects that have been taken on about p Rose, people have looked at his story through the prism of baseball and try to tell a baseball story. Right. And to be clear, as I said before, there's lots of baseball in my book, Charlie Hustle, It's filled with baseball. We have to remind readers, you know why we cared about him, and it's

because of baseball. But I saw this as a story of a man, you know, a story of an ordinary man, an ordinary working class neighborhood on the West side of Cincinnati, a man of ordinary talent and athleticis a man who was never the best player on his own youth baseball team. You know who by right, never probably should have made the Major League, right. That's how I saw the story, That's how I approach the story,

and I do think frankly, my Cincinnati roots helped me. You know, I said before, there's no me, there's no I, there's no first person the story. I'm not part of it. But I do know Cincinnati. You know. I was born on the West side of Cincinnati. I was born in Price Hill. I played baseball in not whole leagues in Cincinnati with guys just like Pete Rose. Yeah, and so you know, understanding the city, understanding what he meant to the city, and letting those emotions

sort of guide my reporting. I think we're crucial here. Keith. I can't thank you enough. Best of luck with the book, and again it's called Charlie Hustle. Keith O'Brien is the author. You can get it on Amazon and wherever you get your favorite books, and you can follow keys on Twitter knee x at Keith ob Thank you so much, have a great summer, and I'll be tracking the book. Thanks so much for having me, Dick. It's my pleasure. You're listening to the best of the Big Blue

Insider. More to come here on six point thirty w LAP. Hey, it's Dick Gabriel and you're listening to the best of It's a Big Blue Insider. Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider, and we welcome back to our celebrity hotline. Josh Edwards with CBS Sports NFL draft writer covers UK football recruiting for The Catch. Paul's part of the two four seven Network. Josh, welcome back to talk to you. Yeah, good to talk to you.

We've got a lot to talk about with Kentucky Athletics and certainly the football program, so I happy to be back along with you. Yeah. And I was going to ask you, from what I can tell on the recruiting trail, Mark Stibbs, Vince Marrow and all, they seem to be doing pretty well. Am I reading that right? They are, and they're getting some very valuable contributions from the likes of Chris Collins, the co defensive coordinator and

defensive backs coach, as well as the new wide receivers coach. Ti Keel Short picked up a couple of really talented kids this past week with Andrew Purcell, a slot cornerback out of Alabama, Jakayden Ferguson, a very talented, lean built watch receiver, wide receiver out of Texas. So a couple of guys that I think are potential impact players for Kentucky down the line. And

they've got a couple more really talented players in this week. So uh, you know, over the course of these two or three weekends here in June, I think we're going to see most of Kentucky's recruiting class take shape. There are so many, as you know, big time schools, D one schools in Texas. Uh, and a lot of kids playing football down there. They can't get them all, but I'm always impressed when Kentucky can get a top one hundred kid out of the state of Texas, aren't you.

No question, It's a state that Kentucky hasn't been overly active in during the Mark Stoops Area era. They got TV Williams there early, Yeah, in his ten years head coach. It didn't quite work out. We didn't see them really recruit the state that heavily in the years to follow. But now that they've got Jay bowl Weer, they've got short to you know, have some very strong relationships in Texas. I certainly I think that's an area where

they could look to take one or two prospects a year. But it really just happened to work out where Shorts had such a strong pre existing relationship with Ferguson and Andrew Marsh who is a top one hundred wide receiver in the nation. You know, it just happened to work out that he had strong relationships with those guys dating back to his time in Houston. Really bonds well with

the recruits because he can relate to them. He's closer in age than most assistant coaches are to prospective recruits, so he's been able to really build these natural connections with guys and that's why you're seeing Texas athletes like Ferguson and Marsh makers campus. You know, it's funny when you look at Mark stoops tenure at Kentucky. A lot of victories once he got rolled in a lot of bowl games, but a lot of movement on his staff and sometimes guys have

moved on to better jobs. Sometimes Mark Stoops has moved them on, and I got to think they don't say it uprount Josh. I got to think that so much of that is tied to recruiting ability. Wouldn't you say, no question. I think there's a fine balance that is difficult to navigate sometimes

because you don't want to compromise your coaching ability either. And one aspect of this that I think Kentucky does as well as any program in the nation is evaluate identify those players early so they're able to start building those relationships before the bigger programs really become involved. That's how Kentucky has been able to land really

talented players. Or whether it was Devin Smith from this last year's class, he had LSU and a lot of programs after him, Brian Robinson out of Ohio, I mean, he was being pursued by Penn State, Michigan, a ton of other programs. But because Kentucky does their due diligence and they have a clear vision of what they're looking for in these individual positions, specifically on the defensive side of the ball. We talked about the and over in

the coaching staff. But when you have the level of consistency and continuity the way that they have on the defensive side of the ball here in recent years, that allows them to really develop this narrowed vision on what they're looking for in each position. And then they go out, they scout these players, they identify who's a great fit for them, regardless of whether they're a three star or a five star, and then they recruit them, you know,

all the way to the very end. So yeah, Kentucky, you know, their coaching staff does a tremendous job. Some of them are better coaches

than they are recruiters. Some of them are better recruiters than they are coaches, right, But I think what Mark Stoops has done well is just find that balance throughout the years, because, like you said, all these coaches move on, they bring in other qualified contributors to this coaching staff, and that's how they've been able to keep the ball rolling for so many years. You mentioned the state of Ohio as we talk with Josh Edwards of two four

to seven sports covers recruiting. As you see his work on the cash Flows website and in their pages. When Steve Clinkscale left and now he's in the NFL, I know, but he left for Michigan, and Jim Harbaugh I wondered about the recruitment of parts of Ohio in Michigan. They're always going to be strong with Stoops and Marrow, but I didn't think they missed a beat

when Clink let and he's a good recruiter as you know. But I felt like Stoops and and and Marrow filled in admirably and got people who could get the job done up there. Yeah, no question. I mean Clinkscale and Marrow were incredibly dynamic on the recruiting trail in Ohio. Vince probably more so, and that's continued to this point. Uh. You know, I'm sure Vince wouldn't want to admits this, but he's probably a little bit glad that Clink moved on to the NFL because you know, he was able to get

a couple of guys out of the Youngstown area northern northern Ohio. Uh. DJ Waller was one of those guys that went to Michigan when Clink was there, and now he's transferred to Kentucky. So I think the door is really open for Vince to continue dominating that state, just as he's done since he, you know, arrived at Kentucky. They've got a couple of very talented

guys in this week on official visits. Dwayne Galloway is a four star cornerback out of Columbus, and then they've got Cedric Works who is a pass rusher out of the Dayton somewhere in between Dayton and Cincinnati area. So both of those guys are four star recruits. They're on campus this week. So Kentucky looking to uh looking to make more impact in the Buckeye State. They've already got a couple of four stars with Marquise Davis, are running back out of

Cleveland, Quinton Simmons a wide receiver out of Cincinnati. So yeah, that's that's always been the bread and butter of this recruiting staff and it's going to continue to be that way. They have pulled kids before out of Columbus in the Columbus area, and you know, Ohio State may shrug them off, but I know some kids Ohio State was recruiting when they were able to do

that. Josh, that that just floors me, you know, no question, because typically when Ohio State offers somebody that they want, they're going to get that player in the state of Ohio. I mean, that's just the reality of the situation. There's such a dynamic national force, so to go toe to toe with him in their own home state says a little bit about you know what Kentucky can do there. They're in a little bit of a battle right now, with Brody Lennon a tight end out of Columbus, the

Buckeyes offered after a camp performance a little over a week ago. Now, Lenin was on campus for his official visit at UK this past weekend. He goes to Ohio State this coming weekend. I haven't heard anything definitive. I tend to think that it's probably going to be difficult to overcome Ohio State. But for him to continue even honoring his official visit, I think at least

says a little bit about his respect for the UK program. Yeah, in fact, you've got a publisher, or you've published at least the Catspaws has a photo over your story about Brody Lennon on the verge of making his decision with of course, Coach Stoops, Coach Merrow, the kid's parents. Everybody's beaming in the photo except for the young man. He has kind of an all business look on his face. I didn't know what to make of am I reading too much into that. I think it's a case by case basis.

In this particular case, I think he's he's been all business a couple of the other pictures i've seen him on recruiting business and things, he's been pretty stoic. So yeah, that was my first first thought when I saw that as well, I dove into a little bit more. I think we're probably over overthinking it a little bit in this regard. I'm just going with my knee jerk reaction. I was like, oh, this is interesting. Wrong. Yeah, you never know what's recruiting. I will tell you real

quickly. My favorite recruiting story just how tough it is. When I was working down in Texas forty years ago, I was reading about it was a story about how tough it is and Texas A and M had locked up this really talented linebacker. And this was back I don't know what the rules are now, but the assistant coaches could be there when they announced. So this assistant coach from A and M is waiting in the school's library for this kid to come in, sit down and say, I don't know if he had

a hat, I'm going to be an aggie. Well, the kid comes in and sits down and says, I'm going to LSU out of the blue, and the guy what and what had happened was as he's walking down the hall to the library. These two girls start singing the AGGI wore him and later on he said, yeah, those girls started singing. I didn't like that, so I'm going to LSU. I mean, imagine making your living on kids like that. That drives me. But I'm sure you run in

the stories like that. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing everybody. You know, we see all these stars next to their next to their names. You know, it gives us a little bit of an idea of how talented they are as a player. But at the end of the day, these are teenagers. I mean, they make decisions for different reasons, you

know. I always it's funny because you know, we always talk about scheme, whether it's offensive or defensive scheme, and how a recruit would fit into a particular scheme, And yeah, that should be a consideration for a lot of recruits when they're making their decisions. But I think a lot of people would be surprised at how little that often comes into consideration. You know, so many times over the years I heard Kentucky recruits at the wide receiver position

say how much they like Kentucky through the football. You know, this was during the days where you know, you had Benny Snell and everybody carrying it three out of four plate. So yeah, it's it's you ever know what's going on in the mind of a teenager, and that story is a perfect example. Josh Edwards of CBS Sports two four to seven Sports is my guest. We'll take a break. Come right back. Hey, it's Dick Gabriel and you're listening to the Best of the Big Blue Insider. It's Dick Gabriel.

Welcome back to the Best of the Big Blue Insider for talking with Josh Edwards. He covers recruiting for two four seven Sports. You also see him on cbssports dot Com. Writes a lot about the NFL. NFL Draft came and went, Andrew Phillips decides to roll the dice and it worked out for him. He's taken by the New York Football Giants. What do you see in his future? I think he's somebody that at this stage of his life is really well positioned to make the jump to the next level. I think

he's been well coached by Chris Collins. I think he has great knowledge of both man and zone coverage. He's incredibly tough, he's been through adversity in his career. I just think for a lot of rookies coming into the NFL it can be overwhelming. And I think for somebody like Andrew Phillips, who has been through so much in his Kentucky career, I think he's better positioned to overcome those early, you know, bits of adversity. So I do

look for him to have some success early. You know, we'll see what transpires of his career. You know, just in covering the NFL and the NFL draft, is impossible to say just how well a player is going to translate in most cases because there are so many variables that come into play.

But I think he does have a bright future as long as, you know, everything stays in place, and you know, as long as there's some stability in that organization because you know, they didn't have the best year last year, you know, so are they on a short leach for this coming year? And if they get fired in the next year or two, you know, then what's the next coaching staffs going to want? So it's just so difficult to predict the NFL. But I think Phillips, you know,

is in a position where he can overcome all of that. I think he's going to find early success and be asked to contribute very early in his time as a Giant. Yeah, and then Wandale Robinson, of course with the Giants, he was an early pick. Will let us an early pick obviously. Anytime you see kids look at Kentucky basketball, you see kids going to the pros. That might be your best recruiting weapon overall, isn't it. Yeah. I mean, you have to be able to get players to the

NFL. That's kind of where every recruit coming from high school wants to be. So you need to be able to show them some kind of a track record of doing that, and I think Kentucky has and I think they will continue to do so, especially as they get more talented recruits. You know, we talked at the top of the show about all these four star recruits

that have either committed to Kentucky or have visited Kentucky. You know, there's a lot to be said about putting a player in the right position and coaching them up and all of that, but you know, these stars, there is a reason for the stars. It's typically an indicator of just how talented

they are. So if you can get more talented players, give them that same coaching, you know, developed them in the same way, then there's no reason that they should not also have great success as a collegiate player and then potentially move on to the NFL. So I think that's kind of Kentucky's model that they've done so well, is they're looking for those pro traits when

they're evaluating these high school players. You know, with the skill positions, you're looking for a sub eleven second one dash that gives you a little bit of an idea of the type of speed that they bring to the position, whether it's running back or watch receiver, cornerback. You know, one thing that they saw in Andrew Phillips was his triple jump ability in track and field.

Just showed a little bit of his explosive nature. And of course we saw but he was a high level athlete when he went to the NFL combine. This a couple months ago, four months ago, now, you know, and a lot of NFL teams need to see those characteristics. They need to see the height and weight, they need to see your athletic testing and make sure that's all verified before you are capable of becoming a top one hundred

overall pick. So Kentucky looks for those trades coming out of high school, they bring them into the program, they develop them, and then they send them onto the NFL. That's kind of been the recipe for their success ever since Mark Stupseras. I have to admit I was very surprised, not just at Carrington Valentine left early, but that he has excelled with my beloved Green Bay Packers. I'm delighted by that. So, you know, maybe we'll

see the same trajectory for Andrew Phillips. You've posted about Dion Walker. So when you're looking at NFL prospects on this Kentucky team, I got to think that the scouts and the gms can't wait to get him into a combine, a camp whatever, start testing him and poking and prodding. You said he wants to play at three twenty. I can't remember when he played at last year. When he arrived in the program, I want to say it was

I want to say it was like three p fifty plus potentially. So he's done a lot of work in the weight room, and you know, he's very intentional about the upcoming season. He's been training with you know, pass rush experts to find more consistency and more ways to be dominant. So I

think he's in for a very good season in the SEC. You know, they haven't asked him to play nose tackle, which is something that a player his sizes traditionally asked to do. They give him the freedom to kind of work on the space and do his own thing, and that's why he's been so successful. That's why he's coveted by NFL teams. He's just got this rare combination of size, speed, and athleticism. His footwork is fantastic. So I think Kentucky fans are going to see him take his game to another

level this year because he is taking this so seriously. Just just a great kid, too, very coachable from everything that I've heard he's he's been, you know, very important in the early development of the young players in the program, just been hands on and trying to bring them along. So everything that you want in a potential, you know, difference making defender. That's

exactly what Beyond Walker is. If he certainly had opportunities, very lucrative opportunities to go elsewhere this offseason, chose to stay at Kentucky, and you know, I think he's in for a great year. He is Josh Edwards. You can see his work on the cash Balls website two four seven sports, CBS sports dot Com as well. Josh, thank you so much as always, and I hope to talk to you again soon. Absolutely always happy to do it. That I'll do it for now. Thanks for joining us for

this special edition the best of the Big Blue Insider. That's it. Good night from a garage in Lexington.