Welcome to Beyond the thesis with papa Phd. The podcast that delve into the diverse and impactful roles. Scientists can play beyond the lab with me, David Mend. Today, I have the pleasure of having with me, Alexa Graham. Alexa is a Toronto comedian and writer with a master's degree in chemical engineering, and she's the creator of the den journal, a academic journal on academia and science.
Alexa runs humor workshops for scientists, and other professionals looking to increase their audience engagement and is a popular host, performer and panel for science based events including store collider, the Association for science communicators, Spark after dark, and the Canadian Association of science communicators, Alexa also runs a monthly science comedy show called dirty science, who will talk about all of that. Welcome to Beyond the thesis with Papa, Alexa. Thank you so much. I'm so
happy to be here. It's funny because a couple of weeks ago, I was interviewing Leslie Burns Burns from the sa collider. So I don't know if you know her or of her, but, you know, it was reading your bio. I was like, oh, that's only interesting And I know that in Toronto, you have store collider events. Which we don't have here in Montreal. So I'm a little bit too. Yeah. No. I just I hosted it 1 time. It was very, very fun. The the podcast... I'm sure.
Very cool. So Alexa, comedy, science, bringing science, to audiences through comedy, you know, I've mentioned all of this, very quickly in sharing your bio. Can you talk a little bit more about yourself about what brought you first? To science and to your master's in chemical engineering, but maybe also to where does your funny bone come from and how it has kind of integrated itself or it kind of expressed itself through this this marriage between comedy and science.
Yeah. I think, as many scientists, you know, maybe grew up. I was always very curious, always asking questions. And then my parents were very much not scientists. So they had to sort of give me a lot of books to read. And so I I got barry into reading, and then once I entered high school, I really took an interest in chemistry, I thought it was so interesting. And then that led me to, going to mcmaster, in Hamilton for chemistry. And, you know, trials and tribulation, I wasn't
always the best student. I loved learning, but I wasn't really good at, performing all the time, on tests or or studying, and I was big cons but I somehow managed to get into, a master's program in chemical engineering. I had applied to, a science based 1, but I didn't get in and then, someone in the in the chemical engineering department was like, why don't you do this? This is, like, kind of similar, to what you're were doing before.
And, yeah. So I've... I just always... Unfortunately, I just always loved chemistry it's just such an interesting science to me, and so that kind of, like, led me into pursuing the learning of it. Although as I think I mentioned in our previous conversation. I never really loved doing it, like, I never really loved labs and that makes doing actual chemistry is career pretty hard. So I've always, like, science communication. I've always loved,
like, reading about science. So I figured that that was maybe more, more on my path than kind of... I I just really hated cleaning glass wear quite honestly. It was just, like the bane of my existence and and setting up Experiments so I never never liked it. It was never good at Labs, and I just like to learn about the theory of chemistry. And stuff like that. Yeah. So on that side, was there any pressure or entice to go into the Phd by the end of
your masters? Or was it clear for you and for people around you that you were going to mess out. It was definitely, like, when I started, I, again, like, not... My parents are not academics, and and no 1 and my family had really gone through, like, any mastery or peach. Program. So I was kind of like, very, like, first gen. And that's why so I didn't really understand, like, all of the ins and outs of, like, the masters in the Phd so I I kind of always just like flu my
way along. I don't really put it, which is also not great. But yeah. At a certain moment, like, I think I about a year into my masters. It was, like, coming up to, like, the decision of whether I was going to master out. Or take a Phd, and I just, like, looked at my... Looked at like, what my life would be in 5 years, the pay is low it's a lot of you know, around the clock stress and work where it's just, like there's kind of, like constant homework and it's just, like, nothing ever feels like,
it's done. Like, you can, like, take a break or anything like that, and I already was feeling a lot of stress. And so I... You know, made the decision for myself. He's like, I don't think that, like, another 4 or 5 years of this would be good for me personally I felt really bad because, you you know, my my group was wonderful. My supervisor was amazing, like, so supportive of, like, whatever I wanted to do. But I just felt like I couldn't maybe continue on that path and still be, you
know, happy with it. In in in another 4 years, like, kind of tripling the amount of time that I would be doing that. So what I find interesting in what you're saying is it somehow... You found mental space, emotional space to intros intersect and understand that that that was the reality that, you know, this was not... Something that that you would thrive in, and
they would probably maybe render you miserable. But did you have any mentorship in having in doing that intros intersection or did it just come naturally? What was the process? Because there's... You know, I imagine there was some because you mentioned have been feeling some sadness, and I imagine mentioned part of it is in, the fact that you might be disappointing someone.
Something for you. So can you just talk a little bit about what helped you go through that and and you know, feel assured in yourself that you first were entitled to taking the the decision you wanted, and then to take it and feel secure about it because it's not evident for everyone. No. And I again, I think like, I
was, again, bum my way along. Like, I had never planned to do a Phd necessarily, so I was kind of going into it being like, let's see, like, you know, if this is synced the right choice for me. I'm kind of, like, very much of, like, is it the right choice for me personally or not?
And I think like, it was unfortunately, like, I I did get mentorship in in a sense of, like, oh, this, like, this is what a Would look like, that sort of stuff, but it was truly the dread in my heart that really led me to not be to be, like, every time I, like, picture my life, doing a Phd, it was, like, this this dread. Again, even though, like, my situation was, like, I know a lot of people have, like, difficult supervisors or you know, coworkers that they maybe don't get
along with. I had none of that. Everyone was amazing. And I felt like if if everything is, like, so good in this regard, and I still have this dread. That I'm gonna do this for 4 years, Like, I don't know. I don't know if it's for me. That's very good. And it means that you you were att. To what your body and your inner system was telling you, and it's not easy for everyone, and and sometimes, again, external pressure may kind of dampen this message that's coming from the... From inside
you, and you... But you had the clarity, or also maybe it was the intensity of those feelings was enough that you were like, yeah, No. This is this cannot... Yeah. And then there was like, you know, other people have, like, I guess, family pressures or or stuff like that and and my parents or, you know, just like, whatever you wanna do. Like, we're or... It's whatever, You know. So that was nice as well. It's a... And for sure, it helps to have, you know,
to have family family port. And and versus people who might have family pressure, which is which can be very tough port Yeah. It start out family pressure when my parents have no idea what a page here these entails. No. For sure. For sure. Now, question, and and this something that we didn't talk about during your masters? And even maybe your undergrad, were you already?
Do you already have an interest for humor for comedy for Satire tire, and were you already working on some of that at the time? So I was more of like, a consumer of comedy I binge watched, like, pretty much every comedy Tv show say for, like a couple that I just for whatever reason didn't get into. I loved, like, you know, political satire shows. I love the onions. So... And, yeah. Truly, like, my dad and I would, like, watch comedy
together, like, from a very young age. So Comedy was sort of definitely always in my life, my dad even pursued a, like, a little bit of, like, he he did a a paper on, like, he, like, humor and in satire as well when he was in university. His own, like, personal project. So it definitely, like, runs in the family, of people kind of just trying to be a little bit funny. There's no other comedian in my family as far as I know.
But, I've always just, like, gravitate towards if you can make it funny, like, people will like you. So but that was... It was another kind of like coping mechanism of, when I had to go to a new school and like you're trying to meet new friends. You're trying to like, the, you know, popular. And I just found that, you know, if you could make a joke out of something, just people would laugh and it would kind of break the tension in a lot of ways. Mh Mh. For sure. For sure. For sure.
Excellent. So now which we talked about how you got to the masters, how you understood that that would be, you know, the the last degree you would go for academically. You... We also... You know, you also said said that that there was some emotion in in that decision of... You know, of of sadness, maybe for leaving a group or a tribe that you that you actually enjoyed being part of, It's just, yeah. Washing the the dishes, not so much. But,
how were... Can you can you share a little bit about how you dealt with the the the day after. So you finish, you you get your degree, you say goodbye to people. Would did you have any sort of identity crisis or were you're right away able to turn around and figure out what you were gonna do. Oh, no. Certainly not. Certainly not. And I think it's it's hard for most people and, especially me, I'm a little less organized. I what Guess the most I was complimenting you on your organization earlier.
So, I was also someone who, you know, we talked about, and in general, like, the theme of den is often impostor syndrome. It's just like I had a a very, very deep sense of impostor syndrome, you know, because I was like, yeah, III didn't really even feel like I should've have gotten into my master's group program gram in a way.
Because it was kind of, like, I didn't get into the 1 that I had applied for, and then this was 1 that I kind of, like, locked into in in a way that I felt program So even, like, trying to make my own resume was part of, like, trying to be, like, I was like, yeah. I got an strict scholarship, but I didn't really deserve it. Like, it was... Really, really not very good.
So... And then on top of that, I didn't really realize, if you have you know, a chemistry degree, and in the chemistry that I kind of was doing was not there's not a lot of jobs. You So I was doing, like, materials chemistry. Most people in... I mean, a lot of people in chemical and I think went to, like, the oil industry or some of my, like, chemistry colleagues had gone into, like, pharmaceuticals or, you know, makeup and stuff like that and I felt like I had none of those
skills. I couldn't even apply to any of those shots. Although I did. And I was rejected very soundly from from many of them, and then the only job that ever got back to me was... For a technician position. So I had a master's degree and I was, like, a technician at a added glue factory. So I I made glue Mh test, which was not my dream. I would say perhaps not my dream. It's interesting the way you put it. It's funny. Yeah. In my my stand of comedy. I
was like, yeah. Was every girl's dream working with Horton horses, because it was blue. Oh, my god. That way. Is that based is that based in any sort of reality? Horses to, they they used to. Yes. Back in the day, back when we didn't have, like, the ability to, like, plastic size things. Oh yeah, or glue was based horses. However, now, we have the ability to s polymers that behave in the way that we need. So it was a lot of polymer based glue. No. No horse involved. No no horses were
it for a great joke? Only the environment. So how long did that, did... You know, how long did you did you stick? Arms with that job. Good 1. I didn't stick with it very long. I think I lasted, like, 18 months quite honestly. I wasn't a big fan of the work, and it was kind of... There were some, you know, difficult to see with, like, some, personalities. And I had always enjoyed teaching. So, like, even when I was doing my masters, like, I think, like, the things, like, most about my masters was
teaching. And, like, being a Ta and, like, taking classes. So I quit my job at the glue factory to kind of pursue comedy, but also kind of, I was just looking for a different job and then Again, the job market was not great. Or, you know, I'm just not really... I... I'm not a good job secret. I think. I I am not really... Go at getting my resume out there and kind of marketing myself. So I luck into a a tutoring position.
So I tutor, private school kids trying to get them into, like, you know, American universities, prestigious Canadian universities, and, private schools. And and so is that through an... Through another organization or or do you do it on on your own? I do a little bit of both, like I... Yeah. So through an agency, and, you know, getting my own clients through, like, my friends or our recommendations and stuff
like that as well. So now look looking at these last few minutes of, you know, between the blue factory and teaching. It feels like you... So once you had your degree, you went on on, kind of, full on, I need to... Send the most resume as possible and get a job. Irrespective of the fact that you just told me the minute before that you master out because you didn't really like to be in the lab. Yes. But I really needed money. That's it.
And and you... Yeah. And you didn't... I guess you didn't also have anyone around you who could mentor you into thinking. K, where... Okay. I have to detach from the name of my degree, where can this bring you. But then organically, you went... It you kind of actually went there with what what I like is to teach and it's something you knew from before, and you want it, you like to learn, that's been clear from our conversation and you
like to teach. So now you're in this position where you're tutoring and you're helping people, to do that. So it feels like the first... That first match with the job job was kind of a forced match Yes. I was, like, let me let me see if I can pay off my student loans real big. That's it. That's it. And and now... So you've been doing this for how much time for... Oh, was it 20 24. So I've been tutoring for the past 7 years, 7 or 8 years. Yep.
So it's a career. I would say it's it's something, you know, it's it's your... It's what you do. It's your specialty right now. I'd... It's my specialty right now. Yes. Exactly place. So it it was never supposed to be. I was supposed to be like, getting other chu, but, I really really enjoyed it. Like, I like working with like, students who like to learn, and I, like, I also, like, really, like, figuring out, like, why someone doesn't understand something.
It's just like a big. I'm like, oh, let me, like, Let me figure out what you're not getting, and let me, like, fix it. Let me break it down into, like, pieces that you can get. So I find that, like, barry... Mentally in mentally challenging. So I... Whereas it... I'd like the glue factory. Like, 1 week, I got so bored that I've tried to do a week's worth of work in a day. And it was the best day at work. And then for the rest of the week, I was just hiding because I had no work to do and,
yeah. So I was, like, this is more mentally mentioning stimulating, and and also in a way, like, allowed me. To do comedy as well, because I was only really working part time for the most part, so then I was able to do go out to Open mics most nights of the week. I was able to, kind of, like, meet people, and I was kind of 1 of the only people doing, like, a lot of science mature. Real, so that was that made me stand
out a little bit at least. And then I eventually started getting paid in in comedy as well. Real how is it to be the the 1, the geek comedian in a group? How is the reaction of people to you getting laughs out of them through science how does that work? You know, I guess it's fun because you you clearly enjoy it. But what's the experience kind of putting science in the world in that format because it's not it's not so frequent. Yeah. I mean, it's it's also very challenging.
To... I have, like, a lot of, like, rules in my comedy, I guess. It's just, like, it's challenging to make sure the science is accurate, And I'm not, like, mis representing the science make it funny enough for of general audience because a lot of the shows that I do are for drunk people. And you know, they don't always have the best
attention span. So I some... I have a joke about, like, socialism in the periodic table that I do that I had to stop doing at, like, late night shows because it would just bomb so hard. And I I really had to kind of, like, figure out, okay. How do I tweak this so that, like, a more broad audience would understand it. But then if Do, like, science based shows like they love big. Are, like, oh, we totally get what you mean on this. So... Okay. Because you have an audience that's expecting that.
Yeah. So it's kind of, like, trying to tailor... Trying to get the, sort science into the minds of, like, drunk people at a comedy show of, like, again, it's kind of... Like this is why I started my dirty science show where just, like, sex cells baby. Like, sex is 1 of the best ways for being able to learn about science. Is this, like, an interesting... Sex
and food? Like, anything that's, like, universal, So trying to make all of the science based comedy more universal and less, like, kind of, like, really niche down into... Something only scientists would understand. Mh. Is can be very challenging. So and it slowed down my writing quite a bit because I had all these, like, hyatt. Expectations. But once you do do it and you get it, it's very, very rewarding.
Excellent. Now So often, I've, you know, I've talked on the show with other people about, you know, creating content of this or that type. I've have had conversations about humor, but 1 thing that we've never talked about is what forms does it takes. So if your language of popular capitalization, is humor. How can you start? What type of format can you start with? And what's out there?
Because you've mentioned starting, You've also mentioned starting to get paid Can you kind of give us a map of what all of these stages look like and maybe the types of of way you can do it? Because I guess somebody's written, but some is, like you said, stand up? I mean, I I kind of do both. I... Again, I I meant to go into Tv writing because I've always loved writing.
And so, unfortunately, for me at the time, I didn't realize that, like, in order, most people who do, like, Td writing that I knew, in the comedy world that I had, like, kind of followed, also started doing stand up. So I was very extremely not a performer when I started, I was, you know, a science nerd, I never, like, even, you know, did any sort of performance based, like, no music performance, no, like, drama performance. I had never done really any of that.
And so it was very nerve wracking to start going to open my where I'm like, I am so nervous. I would, like, throw up a little in my mouth before the shows all the time. It was to it's very stressful. So I would say, you know, it is just a a really a matter of, like, kind of seeing what, like, makes you laugh and, like, makes your friends laugh. So, like, take a note of whenever you're talking to people and you, like, make someone your laugh and you're like, why did I
do that? I mean, it will start a horrible cycle where you're addicted comedy. So I wouldn't recommend that. And you were just, like, how do I make everything funnier, and it's sort of this horrible thing into your brain all the time. Comedy But in general, you know, figuring out where other people laugh, figuring out what's, like, funny about stuff and kind of, like, breaking it down. Is something that I found fun. I don't know if everyone finds it fun. And
it's just about trying. It's it's it's very experimental, like, comedy is very, very experimental, which do I think is also why I gravitate towards it It's like the kinds of experiments I like to do of, like, If I say I if I say it this way, it gets this much after. If I say it this different way though, it gets, like, this much more laughter.
So a lot of it, unfortunately is just trial an error of just, like, tried putting yourself out there, which is tough for me and and for many people and just failing and learning from failure basically, over and over and over again.
I've I've told people that, like, doing comedy, like, stand comedy in particular is kind of, like, micro dosing a break up every night, where just, like, the audience could reject you so hard and you're just, like, I feel so bad, but myself I feel so rejected, but I have to just go home and try again tomorrow. So that's for for stand ups. So it's clearly... Some people are more probably extroverted and and have have it easier getting themselves like...
On stage etcetera, but I imagine for bunch of us who come from research. There's more introverts, on on that side, I imagine. So so there's gonna be some pain in building that muscle Now what about other other formats? Because, for example, the the den journal, what types of what types of humor... Do you present there? What types of formats? Yeah. How can 1 express themselves in humor? In written in written formats that are that are maybe different.
Yeah. So in... I mean, do d... Dean is, like, kind of, like, a early here magazine. So satire is kind of like, hiding the thing that you're actually talking about with a layer of comedy empirical and, Scott Dick of the onion. I think made these these 11 kind of funny filters. So, there's reference where you're referencing something that everyone knows hyper where it's just, like you're just going nuts on, like, exaggeration.
So having satire to me is, like, having a point that you're talking about, whether it's, like, coffee is bad or whatever it is. And then kind of slapping on this, like, v near of humor and kind of hiding nina it, but making that information like that point that you're making more digestible in a way that, like makes people laugh, I guess. Which is very difficult because you have to have
you have to have a sub, basically. So a sub text of, like, the thing that you're actually talking about, the point that you're trying to make. And then trying to make a headline that makes people laugh and ideally share it as well. So is 1 way to get started to... To get to know, you know, journals like the like the nature and to pitch what's what's the technical aspects of having written something and trying to get it out into the world.
Yeah. So I I mean, in terms of generating headlines, I took click several courses at second city and they always recommended to start, like, write 10 things you hate. Because the things that you hate, you're very, very passionate about and, like, can kind of like, make that very funny. So first write 10 things you hate, and then try and kind of, like, make a joke based on that. I also took, like, you
desk writing. So I don't know if you ever watched, like, Saturday at night live, like, the weekend update where they do, like, the news jokes. So that would be, like... Those are called, like desk jokes. So I took a course on that too where you do which you would just, like, read the news. Like, you would take a headline, and then you would try to make a a joke out of that.
And, 1 comedian, Laurie K Martin was a was a writer for, I think, Conan, and she had, like, this entire list of transitions where it was just, like, you... If, like, he's here are, like, 50 or a hundred transitions you could do, like, you have the headline and then you start with that transition, and you see if you can make anything out of it Again, it's a lot of trial and error, probably, like, 10 percent or less are gonna be actually
funny. So it's kind of about... Pushing paths like that feeling failure A lot of the time to be like, okay, Could this be a little bit better? Could this be a little bit funnier and pushing. Trying to put those kind of funny filters on it. And so that's exactly why we ask when people pitch to, we ask that they... Send and submit 10 headlines with, like, a sample joke, so that we can kind of, like, read through them because it's just, like it is so hard to get, like, 2 or 3 to be funny.
So a lot of the times, like, if you submit to us 10, like, we can see where you're going with at least 1 of them, and we can... Often we will tweak the headline to be kind of, a little bit more clear and direct and concise But, otherwise, I'm like, a lot of people just have really good ideas. It's just like the wording is so specific and so difficult that we kind of... Put our magic on it. You just mentioned sub text. And when you are out there, doing Sai science.
You... Depending on your audience, you need to adjust your language, and you need to have 1 or 2 ideas that you want them to to stay with and then be able to pass it on in a way that's palatable and memorable to is it the same in humor? Do you... So can... Is part of of your mission, let's say, when you're out there on the stage? Is it still to pass on some scientific knowledge? Yeah.
I think, like, most general audiences of, like, the science is, like, not to kind of difficult to kind of process? Or just kind of happy to learn something new? Like, we're kind of built to learn as human beings. So a lot of people I find have been turned off of science because of school and high school. So again, my parents didn't do signs at all. All of my, like, closest friends in high school
really hated he good science. Like, I would have to help them with science and they were like, we still hate it. And so I think trying to undo those, like, academic wounds where people feel dumb. They feel like they're not getting it. They feel like this is something that's not for them and and kind of being, like, well, actually, if it's this... Cool fun thing that you can learn that you can at least, like, you know, heal that wound and get them a little bit more on onboard of learning
need more signs. Are like, you know what Not all science is bad. Right? Like, not all science is, like, so complicated and and and difficult. Some science is, like, if kind of funny, like, I I took a microbiology course at U tea this past year. And What they were saying was that, some of the, like, antibiotic resistance is actually from people going overseas to get, like, cosmetic surgery. So it's just, like, pretty wild that how people's insecurities might be the downfall of humanity.
That's like, That's pretty funny. You know what I mean? Like, if you can kind of, like, frame it in a way that it kind of encompasses, like, the feeling. This, like, it takes all this complicated science and kind of disclose it down to, like, this 1 idea that maybe, like, loses some things. Along the way, like, some details, but it's still, like you're like, that's kinda of funny.
So I really like that you mentioned healing and and kind of getting people back, you know, back to some sort of relationship with scientific technologies that they may have shunned or know or excluded after bad experiences in in high school. I... And, of course, humor would be 1 of the the the best ways to do that. Now, you know especially since Covid, we as a society have been dealing with difficulty, and and we as scientific communicators, which is science has gotten a bad rep in some spheres.
Fake news have sprout and and become this big, big problem, and so this poses a problem for Satire. Because you fall into this danger of someone seeing a strategic piece, and taking it face value. Yes, which is 1 of my biggest fears. I... Because I I don't like it when you know, I read a lot of, like, satire and, you know, humor based stuff, and I really don't like it when you... Like, again, the media literacy because of all this information is going down, Like, you really have to make it so
clear that something is a joke. Otherwise, like, someone's gonna look at it scroll past it for 15 seconds, but then tell their friend, and then that person might tell their friend, hey, like, this whole thing is happening. It's and it might be based on a complete fabrication. So at, like, I you know, I'm, like the the primary editor,
and I I always... Some of my feedback is, like, this could actually be taken, like, too close to reality, And so we're really not trying to, like, confuse anyone, we're really trying to, like, even with, like, poor media literacy, like, you should be aware that it's cannot be true. Basically.
And I have, like, you know, people I know and and and people in my family who, you know, are on opposite scientific spectrum that I am on, and in general, I find that, the demon digitization of those views can kind of just, like, push people pay farther into the corner. So when I'm kind of, like, you know, dealing with that, I'm... I'm trying to find like, a connective piece. I'm trying to find. Okay. Where do we agree first? Like, what are we... What are we like, what's what's our
baseline, what do we agree on? And then, you know, instead of kind of in acc or, you know, dismissive or anything like that, kind of hearing their concerns, and now this is easier with some people than other people, obviously, and then kind of just being like, oh, like, you know, did you know that this is actually the reason why that happens or something like that my name requires a lot of information
on your part as well. So you have to be kind of up on your stuff in in every aspect, which is hard. Do you ever get questions after a set from people about the science? I don't get a lot of questions. I I try not to... Just because, like, I'm, you know, I'm there for, like, a good time as well. I I try not to hit on, like, super, controversial topics. I think... The 1 den 1 we did with... On, like, vaccines was, you know, teens caught getting vaccinated at a party because of like, they're...
Great packs and stuff like that. So that would be above about the most. And that was kind of, you know, something that very much resonated with me personally. So it's gotta getting vaccinated behind facts. So... So 1... Someone who's starting to write and who wants to do science humor, and maybe, you know, work in some some of the the news of of the the the day or the week or whatever, do you have a process that you follow? Because, clearly, you have kind of an inner
compass of the... This is to too much too much there or this is not funny enough, But about this frontier of, oh, maybe someone's gonna take this face value versus, you know, versus no, This is clearly humor. Do you have a rule of thumb? Do you have a best practice? How do you make sure to not cross that line Yeah. I mean, you can always, like, ask people who are, you know, outside of, like, the science realm, what they think of it of, like, Oh, like, does this, like seem real to you?
I try and kind of put myself in those shoes, kind of think of people I know? Like, what would they think about this? But a lot of it is kind of, yes, my own internal compass of... If it's even getting a little bit close, like, I I also skim reid. So I think that also helps it where I'm like, if I skim it and I think it could be real. I'm like, probably not. Because a lot of people are just like, skim me, they're not reading the
full. So you know, thing. It should be, again, so clear even in in, like, skimming that if you're like, oh, that's just funny. That's just, like, a funny joke that's a good way. So focus focus group versus and also, do try try to to read it quickly and see whether the the the after image, is 1 of humor of 1 of maybe actual news. And also just email me, You know? I'm I'm off for the summer. I have I have sometime time in the summer.
And I will I will be running, like, some... I think, hopefully, this summer I'm gonna be running some like workshops and some, like, science humor. Workshops, I just have, like, set that up now that the school year is finally over.
And I actually have some free time. This is great because I was I was precisely going to talk about the workshops I I was going to ask you because we talked about you in front of an audience of people at a bar or at a at a festival or whatever, with beers and and a little bit you know, a little bit of ethanol in their veins but you do workshops, and I'm... I'd really I'd be really curious to learn about. First, what are these audiences looking for, in your workshops, and also, of course, what
you offer. Yeah. So I've run them basically for science communicators specifically at conferences, where we kind of just breakdown, what a joke actually is, and we also kind of go into why adding humor just to your regular science communication, whether it's, like you're presenting at a conference, whether you're writing about your science, obviously, like, an academic paper that's very difficult, and we might not wanna incorporate that in but, I mean, academic papers are not for
a general audience. But if you're trying to kind of reach, a more general audience with science, in general because of, again, the way humans are built. Like, we we kind of react more to things that are scary or, you know, surprising and stuff like that. Like, it kind of, like pings your amygdala, of the party of your brain. Oh where Just like, oh, that's like something novel and exciting. So comedy is not only a surprise. It's also always kind of, like something new where it's unexpected.
So it's really good and, like, the attention economy to, you know, you're competing with, like, all these other things. It's just like, adding humor kinda just, like, sets you above the rest. So that your content and your your information can actually kind of pierce through the noise, I guess. And then I find that you know, the most memorable part of, like, science talks for me or, like, that that fun little aside that the the scientists makes.
Where you're like, oh, like, that little analogy that they made that now I finally understand, like this very complicated. Topic because you've made this, like, very funny analogy of, like, oh, octopus shooting lasers. I'm like, oh, like, I can picture that in my mind, I can, like, relate that back. Forever, you can you can now... This for years, this
is gonna... Exactly. So I find it's actually a very, very effective means of communication for science that just is is just adds so much engagement and ads, like, so much value to them your content that it just would make sense to incorporate this in. But again, it's it's it's a very difficult skill. Like, it's taken me, you know, 10 years to get where I'm at, where I'm finally comfortable being, like, yeah. I could definitely, like, turn a lot of science
into a joke. And I... A lot of the times I just, like, challenge myself I'm like, how can I make this funny? Like I'll take any, you know, headline, and I'll be, like, how could you make this into, like, a joke? And, what does the time people you're gonna spend with you look like? Previously, I'd run, like, specifically den workshops where, scientists who are looking to kinda of contribute to the website.
I run, like a very small, like, 20 people, kind of explain how do you need you to work what we're looking for. And then people kind of come in with their, headlines, and then we go through and we're like, okay. Here's why this 1 might not work, but here's why this 1 would. And then if we can, like, tweak it, this would make
it funnier. And then in general, I'm trying to, like, more start a workshop where people kind of come in with their presentation, and I'm helping make them more, like, make it more clear and concise kind and funny basically, where Mh. It's more of like, a 1 on 1 thing. I, and based on, like, you know, are you are you in grad school? I'm not gonna charge too much. If you're, like, you know, some sort of nobel prize winner, you know, maybe be more.
But and and just kind of, giving them the tools they need to, like, what to look for to make something funny? Where's is the opportunity? Is there an opportunity here in this... Sentence to make it funny or probably should that 1 be left alone, and will, like, put the humor somewhere else. So the 1 on 1, I imagine... It's it's a a few meetings. Yeah. It's of depending on the client, like, maybe an hour or...
You know, work with you through, like, you know, a presentation you're gonna do at a conference or or something like that, and the group ones. If if someone is interested, what what's is that gonna look like like in their schedule in their calendar, etcetera? This I just do, like a Zoom. So, on, like, a Saturday or sunday or whenever people are kind of available, I set out, hey, we're gonna have, like,
a workshop. Typically you know, 10:20 people, come out, like, bring some headlines, or just, like, come and just, like, see how it works, And then, the other thing is that laughter is great peer review. Right? It's just, like, it's exactly what peer review should be. So if you're, you know, if you're bringing the headline or or any... Even an idea and or you were in their group and and a lot of people laugh. You're like, you know what? That's probably gonna be a good 1. Right?
That's something that's very relatable, and we can just kind of like, tweak that into like, a headline for our. Very cool. And are there on your calendar, any live things happening up to the summer or in the summer? Yes. I am running my my monthly? Comedy show Dirty science. We have a new theme every month. This this month's theme is Std. So we're gonna do, like, the signs of Std. Comedy and that's the first Saturday of every month.
So the next 1 we have is on July sixth at, Tall boys craft pub on near Oz And. And yeah. Take us, I think our, like, 20, 25 dollars. But, yeah. We're gonna... We do we do a lot of fun stuff We do, like, quizzes. We do. I I do with something called double blind. Where mh, the audience and, we all close our eyes and we just, like, see who's done a couple of things. And we also do, like,
improv interviews with, like, dead scientists. So I got an improvise to come in and and we asked all the questions you would wanna ask Sig freud or, you know, Mary C. We see What they would say. Yeah. That sounds like fun. So so now people know that... As these people in the Toronto area, where to go get some booze if they want, and some some science see humor. That's that's great. That's 7PM 7PM. So it's it's perfect. It's after after lab.
Yes. Exactly. If you're working on on the lab in Saturday, which I know that you are because you guys are really not from me. Awesome. Alexa. Before before we get to actually the end of the interview. So people who are watching, can see your website. That's lexi graham dot c a. Can you share your other socials, you know, if people want to reach out to you, and as you try, you know, ask questions about something related to maybe their writing, share What's the best way to reach
out to you? Yeah. So Den journal has an email. So, den your journal at gmail mail dot com. Is... A great way to reach us, especially with, like, your science based humor questions. I have a lot of... We have a dirty science company on Instagram. Great and den journal on Instagram. Yeah. We're kind of just working on getting the socials up because, again, at was the end of the year it was exams and I was, you know, very busy prepping all my kids to to feel math. So great. Alexa.
This is this has been great. I I really, I I really enjoyed, hearing your story, hearing, you know, how you had to kind of... Make different decisions about your career, of course, academia and then post academia, we were able you were able to make some... To do some horse and glue jokes, which is awesome. And it has never happened on this podcast. Number 1. Number 1. No. This has been great fun. I think, And and now I I talked with you
about it. I understand how humor and science can, collaborate to actually bring some... Maybe not... It it doesn't have to be knowledge, but some reconciliation of people with actual science And I think this some fun. I think it's important today. We don't need a society where people are divorced from science because it makes for a lot of the trouble that that that we we're having of people believing what or, you know, what a nefarious people or interests are putting out there.
Yeah. So... But you you also stressed it that it's part of of your... Your values and for example, the mandate of the nature to be very careful and very conscious of that issue and make sure that when something that you put out there as humor, it goes into the world that is... The chance that it's perceived as real is low to 0. So that's... Yes. It's very very it's it's very commendable. And I think it's
a very good example. For any burg, comedy comedy writers that might be listening to us Alexa, this this has been a lot of fun. Yeah. Everyone go look at d at d dot com. It's, you know, it's back up, somehow, I figured it out somehow. I'm a hacker no. I don't know. An un hacker. Yes, sir d nature dot com, I'm gonna go see see what's there. And if ever I'm in in Toronto on a Saturday Am. Sure go you me. I'm gonna go take part in in 1 of those
celebrations science and humor. Yes. 30 science. Alright. Thank you so much, Alexa. Thank you for helping me. Thank you for listening to this new episode of beyond the thesis with Papa Phd. With me David Mend and my guest, Alex Graham.
We are now in the nomination season for the people's choice podcast awards So if you want to show your support for the podcast and give me the best present ever for the fifth anniversary of the show, you can go to Papa Peach dot com forward slash nomination and cast your vote for beyond the thesis with papa Phd in the education and in the people's choice categories. The votes are open until July 30 first. Thank you for your support.