We have two sexual dynamics ands and minds, and we and we're totally connected together to create 1. And so you can't say there's an unfairness on one side or the other when we each are getting something from this. This is something that gives you so much more than, to be honest, than an orgasm. I mean, it's, it's basically edging me to, you know, a thrill in some point. Well, obviously the person that asked the question doesn't really understand which is helping.
Yeah. Hey everybody, I just wanted to give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a one-on-one coaching session. It's called Ask Crystal, it is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore ethical non monogamy. Whatever your dynamic is, I've been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a ton. And I hope to share some of that wisdom with you in the hopes that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the show notes and I hope to see you there.
Hello everyone, this is Crystal Welch here and I am super excited. We have a special episode today. I'm being joined by my cuck husband Bitchard, as well as my Co podcaster Anne and her husband James. So we we've talked about a lot of different topics over the last few months and very often we said, wow, I want it'd be great to hear their own viewpoint on that particular thing. So we can't remember all those things, but we're going to do our best to try.
And we don't know what we say. We have to listen to our own podcast again. But anyway, I'm going to introduce them and then we're we're going to try and get some cock perspective. Anna and I have our ideas about what we think they experience and what they think. But today is the day they can spill the tea on their own. So welcome Bitchard. Say hello. Hello everyone. Oh, and it's Bitchard's birthday too. And Anne, why don't you go ahead and introduce your lovely husband?
Well hello everyone Crystal, it's so great to be back. This is James, my cuckold, filled with a small J. So James with a dot, as we like to say, but he's happy to be here too. Yes, this. This should be fun A. Couple of things we're going to tackle today is, is this fair? Is being a cuckold fair? What do they actually get out of it? Along those lines, we're going to be talking, we'll do it in sort of a past, present, future format.
So I'm going to start off with, I'd like you guys to answer, how did you get started? When did you know you were a cuck and how did you know that and how did you start? Richard, go ahead. Oh hey, so in AI got to really wrap wrap the clock back in a previous marriage, my ex-wife cheated on me and I was I was gone on a trip and I got back and she acted weird and this went for about two weeks and then I'm like, look, what the hell is going on with you?
You know, why haven't you been talking to me or interacting or anything? And then she just starts crying, you know, and, and she said, I'm sorry, we'd only been married like two months. And she said, I'm so sorry, but I cheated on you and, and I was like, what the what the hell, man? You know, we've only been married a couple months. And. And then so at the same time I'm kind of feeling angry. I, I feel a tug coming from below my belt, like, what the hell, What are you doing down there?
You know, and next thing I know is we're on the kitchen floor banging like teenagers and I go, wow, I don't know what just happened, but that was kind of fun, you know? And so that's was my first, my first cuckolding experience, I guess. And her and I had we lived in the Bay Area and had a pretty active life. As a matter of fact, I'm going to drop this on you guys. Just a few weeks ago, Crystal was talking about Anne and James and, and I don't know why I'd never paid that much attention.
James, you can probably relate, but all of a sudden I'm like Anne and James, Anne and James. I remember an Anne and James from fmsb.org and and then all the sudden I went back and looked and sure enough it was you guys. And I'm saying I wrote about you on that website for like 10. Years. Oh man. That's do you, do you remember what I'm talking about? What do you? What was it? What was it again? The website. FM FM SB It was fuck my slut bride but they just used the the
letters fmsb.org. I. Don't remember that. Was that part like a Yahoo? I don't remember that. Maybe. No, no, no. It's it's what was it That was its domain and then they changed it to something about married something here recently. Oh, isn't. That where your blog is, it's. Like Cuckold. Marriage. Yeah. It's probably cuckold. Marriage. Yeah. Cuckold marriage, Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He yeah, he changed it. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, that goes. Back about 10 years, 10 years ago, we changed it I think. But anyway, so. That's in the small world right there. Yeah, so that's how I, I'm like, oh, I know them. Hell, I've been reading about them forever, you know I. Thought maybe you were going to go back to the Yahoo groups when we. Yeah, we were on Yahoo Groups
too. That was, yeah, we that was another part of our introduction into the lifestyle was there was a really active gangbang group down in the Bay Area called The Crew and they did interracial gangbangs. And they, that's how we first got involved with them was through like the Yahoo. What did they call those groups, The Yahoo group? That was true. And so we started going to the interracial gangbangs and met a bunch of people in the lifestyle.
And that was sort of my start in this whole thing. So that's that's sort of the roots of my beginnings. Yeah, I, my story is a little bit different. There was no one specific event like you were describing. I think people probably know or if they don't know, we've been, we've had an open marriage for our the entire length of our marriage, which I'll be upfront has been 37 years. And so we've had a journey that has brought us and, and taken us through different situations in that.
So my perspective of, of cuckold, becoming a cuckold was really an evolution over time, going through different situations and whatnot. And it was not a situation where I saw something online because online didn't really exist a lot
back then. But but it was a, you know, it was a situation when we were just evolving, experiencing different things, understanding each other's sexual dynamic because it was becoming apparent that there was two dynamics involved as one and the, you know, and finally someone asked us if we are a cuckold. We had no idea what exactly what the word meant or. And so we looked it up and we realized that, yeah, we've been doing this for years now.
Interestingly, the one one thing that does stand out in the kind of the cuckolding, we have gone back and kind of revisited some some of those experiences that led us up. And it appears probably unbeknownst to us at that time that my first cuckold experience really did not involve Anne with
another man. It involved Anne with another woman and that's when the emotions really became apparent that you start feeling this angst and and but at the same time you have a certain thrill that's, you know, you kind of a coming up too. And so she went through a two year relationship with another woman that was very serious.
It was a beautiful relationship and because the other one was a lesbian, there was no sex to be. But it was me standing there and seeing them, you know, in this sexual and romantic relationship. But that eventually ended and we continued it on our journey. And so it's you kind of have to revisit some of the past to understand certain things that maybe were a trigger. That's probably the biggest
trigger. But I, I've always enjoyed in all those experiences seeing and with other men and having been in the swing lifestyle portion and with other women, it got to the point where I would be with another woman and but then after a while I'd be going, where's Anne? What she's doing? What is she doing? You know, and so there's this strong connection that we have.
And so that kind of, you know, continued on and, and, you know, established this instead of couples, established a singular thing that Anne could have, and that was men. And along the path, you know, she was introduced to black men and then it really took off. We've been strong proponents, you know, vocally and through the writings in the for the last nine years. And so it's been interesting.
You know, at that time, we didn't, we thought we were alone when we realized we were a couple couple. But since then, the community has exploded and that has, you know, created this comfort level of who we are and what we do. Yeah. So James, our trajectories weren't that far apart, even though we we first, you know, fell on the floor and I and I had this great, you know, life changing experience. Our trajectory actually followed you guys that we, we played a part, we played together.
We were very, we were very involved in the just regular swinging lifestyle and went to a lot of swinging parties. But I learned more about myself and, and had a very similar experience to yours that we would go to a swinging party and my pleasure was watching my wife, you know, and these other girls would be annoying me like, hey, you want to go play? And I'm like, leave me alone. Yeah, there.
There's some truth there. Yeah, so I but, but just like you, I had never heard of a cuckold back then and I really didn't know how to label, you know, what it was that I liked. And now that I know how to label it, I'm fighting the label as hard as I can. And so meaning that the label is so indistinctive anymore that we don't know what it means. So. Yeah, it's a, it's a big umbrella of different things that can be so, yeah. So yeah, we, you know, it's, it's great that we have a
community now. Yeah. And that's a great thing. But it but I I think that's really interesting that both you and I kind of wandered through swinger land on our way here You. Know. Yes, and wander is a good word, yeah. Kind of came to the same conclusion about it too. That's probably not that unusual. I I would think that I think there's a lot of couples that have evolved from swinging into cooking and you know, everybody starts somewhere.
So I appreciate you guys sharing that that beginning story because I think a lot of people will be able to relate to that. But let's get to the really big one. What the heck do you get out of it? What do you, if you can tell us in your own words? What is it about this dynamic that just floats your boat? Boy, that's a, you know, that's a question that I think really comes back to the, the, the relationship that Anne and I have the strength that that we have the the ability to, you
know, communicates very well. And so I think it's a situation where because of how we evolved in our sexual dynamic over a long period of time, you kind of generate a lot of different things about your own sexual identity. And my identity revolves around the aspect of not because as with other men, the denial and denial can be a big umbrella for a lot of different ways to achieve it.
But from denial, I get a a masochistic type of emotions set of emotions dealing between angst of if you're going to go over the Cliff or the joy of this is just so awesome and you know you want it to continue on. And at this point, a lot of that angst has because I'm so comfortable with it. The angst is not as big of an issue as just the pure joy that I get to see Anne enjoy. This past weekend we went to Splash. She had a fantastic time.
I had a fantastic time. I wasn't always in the room. That's that's kind of how I do things. It increases that denial aspect. And So what do I get from it?
I get the fact that we are so goddamn close that you know, there can't be any other thing but that, you know that that strong emotion that's, you know, the her afterglow and Sharon in it. And so, you know, that's, I'm not sure that is a very precise answer, but it, it is a difficult question to answer because I think each person is, is different in their, their relationship.
And but I think the commonality is always that there's this, this incredible bond between the two people and their ability to communicate, their ability to trust their, you know, their ability to share, their ability to champion each other. Thank you for that. That was beautiful. Actually, I think that's one thing that a lot of people don't believe too. They don't believe that this type of consensual non monogamy agreement can bring that kind of
closeness. It seems counterintuitive to people that don't know, so thank you for that explanation. Right. Richard, what is it for you? Right. Well, I think, you know, it's gone through a lot of phases in my life and I've moved, you know, from like a a lot of men in particular are first drawn to the real pruient, you know, side of it and the sexuality and, and I certainly have always enjoyed seeing very sexual women.
You know, it's, it's always been something that really appeals to me. But I, I also don't think that you can really have a long term successful cuckolding relationship just based on prurience.
You know, I think there's a spiritual aspect to it that I think particularly I hear it coming from a lot of Cox and and I think James, without putting words in your mouth, I hear when you know, I've got a Catholic background in and was an ex seminarian and these these thoughts that I hear coming from you, I think all could be reframed very religiously and and put inside and and please don't blame me for being a Catholic. I'm reformed. I'm out of that, but I hear these thoughts.
That's all right. So. He's married. There's one in the family too. He's. Married. He's married. God help us all. But I hear these I hear these things about like self masochism. And this is Janus. Do you know this comes from a rich Catholic tradition of of self denial. And you know, you can't, you can't understand Catholicism without understanding fasting and without understanding not, not giving in to the things that you want to do. It's considered weakness.
And in fact, I think this is something that that Crystal and I have agreed on many times is that it takes a certain strength to be a, to be a cuckold. And, and we and yeah, and we, and we find that through our sacrifice. And and this, this is very much, very much Sacramento insight of Catholicism. And then moving on to the other thing you talked about, which was so great is how it combined
you as a couple. You know, that that you have to be able to communicate on such a deep level and be able to share thoughts so intimately that it just transcends you out of a lot of couples that, you know, they can't, they can't even communicate enough to decide who's going to do the dishes. And we're talking about who's going to do my wife, you know? All right. And. Yeah, the dish, the dishes is easy like the. Yeah, I got that. Yeah, but how much harder is the
conversation? When we first started, we, we were like, OK, you can go fuck guys, but I don't want you to like them. And then that, that and this happiness that I get now that, oh, here's a guy that she really likes. And look at how, look at how they make music together, you know, and I get happiness from
her happiness. And surely I, I think any good, you know, Christian person would, would also consider that a value, you know, the fact that you can gain happiness through other people's happiness, which is actually the opposite of envy, you know, and, and, and in my very uninformed view, the whole idea of, of coveting is, you know, this is the opposite of coveting. This is allowing sharing and, and in a way, the ultimate in empathy.
And so that's sort of so that's what attracts it me to it today, although I certainly didn't. Start it. That's a very interesting perspective. I never related to a religious aspect of it. That's so I find that very interesting. There are some elements of what you describe that probably are, are true. I, I, I am not a religious person per SE, except of faith. And so I don't, you know, try to
define my life in that respect. But there are some things of faith that tell me, you know, this is, you know, there's a certain part of what, who we are and how we will be that we have no control over. And, you know, so I, I, it, it is interesting. I, I, I, one of our first things that we decided early on when we got into this whole thing, I mean, going back years is we never had rules, we never had
boundaries. We were always we as we matched very well in the sense as as people, we always. Are open to trying things and doing things. I am the type of person being half German, I can be a little more disciplined in that. And you know, I'm very passionate about when we first met about sex. And I've communicated that to Anne right away and she didn't have a problem with it. As things continued, I might come up with an idea and throw it out there and it's and she's
being the social butter. She says, yeah, let's do it. And so we would do it. And so we've experienced a lot of things without the rules and boundaries that allowed us to get to where we are right now. But more importantly, allow us as a couple to come together and be strong and be for each other. And not everyone can do that. Not not everyone is comfortable without rules and boundaries. And so that, you know, is kind of an aspect that makes us a little bit different.
I'm, I'm sure there are others out there, but I always hear people when they talk about it, you know, the rules and boundaries. You made a comment about the, you know, you can't have emotions. I was never about you can't have emotions. Actually, those emotions kind of give me that, that angst. That's what I want to see. Because that's her. That's what she's about. And that, you know, thrills me. It gives me angst when there's a real cat connection.
But because we can communicate and we trust, we figure it out, We have some hard conversations at times, works out great. But you know, it's I don't want to in any way impede what she's about. And and so probably that answers the question is what do I get out of this? I get out of this by letting her be her. And that just thrills me. Crystal, didn't we touch touched on spirituality in our last episode, Yeah. But I think it's kind of it's such a big topic.
I think it it deserves an entire episode because it's deep and profound. But let we let's definitely touch on it. But I just don't think there'll be a time in this one, but we'll schedule again. But that that's a big topic and they just opened that, you know, both of them just sort of opened up that topic. So let's let's definitely go for it. To me, that's what gives cuckoldine its legs.
I mean, there's lots of people out there that, you know, can just kind of get off on the, you know, the sex side of it. But I just don't think that has legs, you know, I, I think, you know, you can only do that once in a while and then it's off chasing another shiny object, you know?
Well, I think it the fact that we can speak to a spiritual aspect at all, you know, that sort of separates out the the looky loos or the the people just looking for an experience from the people that have taken this seriously and taken it as a lifestyle and allowed it to to deepen their intimacy in their primary relationship. You know, it's entirely valid, but I think that spiritual aspect is what separates the men from the boys or however you say that.
I think it's, I think it's, I think it's a big deal. Yeah, I think there's some truth there. I mean, this is such a deeply emotional type of sexual relationship that I think people kind of overlook and from both sides. And I think that a lot of people just probably are not interested in that. They're, you know, they're more towards the. The how do I get my wife to fuck other men? And you're answering with, well, you know, Thomas Aquinas said. Go to church. I mean, Oh my goodness.
Well, I have a question. Do you ever feel like this is unfair? Let me take that on 1st this time. What a stupid question of. Course it's. Unfair. Does anybody go to a pro Dom and say OK, this is a democracy now you know? And obviously, no disrespect you intended, Anne, I know the question was fed into us, but when I first heard that question, I thought, this is the most ridiculous, stupidest question I've ever heard in my
life, you know? So yes, the answer to your question is yes, Anne. It is unfair at its best. And just like, no, I, it's, it's well, my perspective is it's not unfair because I don't even think about, you know, fairness in, in this. It's it's, you know, it's a situation that you have, as I mentioned before, you have two
sexual dynamics ands and minds. And we and we're totally connected together to create 1. And so you can't say there's an unfairness on one side or the other when we each are getting something from this. It's not about what she does. I have to also do it's about what she does that gives me what I can do. And so, you know, I find it, you know, you know, people asking that question is like much like you said, Richard, it's just like, are you kidding me?
I mean, where are you? I mean, you just want to wank off here, you know, and and be done. I mean, no, this is this is, you know, this is something that you take it and it gives you so much more than to be honest than an orgasm. I mean, it's, it's basically edging me to, you know, a thrill in some point. Well, obviously the person that asked the question doesn't really understand which is helping him.
Right, right. And that, and so you, I guess you could devolve it into a conversation about what is fairness. You know, I mean, if we're all getting what we want, is that fair even even though there's a automatically a power imbalance, you know, of necessity. And so is it, is it unfair for the Colonel to tell the private to go, you know, charge down the, you know, charge, go charge
the machine nest or something? You know, it's, it's not even really, I don't, you know, I, I think it's, it's a foreign language to start describing it in terms of fairness. I thought these these are a lot of the questions that come from my listeners typically are people who are curious and they're looking for an on ramp. So they don't have the experience. They, they find it hard to comprehend that you actually get something out of it.
They don't understand the, the, you know, the notion of a conversion where you actually get happiness from someone else's happiness. You know, so it's, it's really the, the, the question is designed for those people looking for is this right for me is, you know, can I understand this at a deeper level so that, you know, I would have some basis to, to try and see if, and see if it would be a fit for me
and my partner. The only way you're going to know is you're going to have to go out there and you're going to have to experience sex in a sexual situation with your partner and understand what that creates and, and, and understand, you know, from that you're going to either, you
know, do this or that. And whatever you choose to do, hopefully you've communicated about it and said, Hey, this is where we want to, we should go. Whether it's cuckolder or not, it's not important is in my mind, it's about just experiencing something and making from that experience, you know, an evolution of, you know, this is what you you're both interested in. And so, you know, I just it's it is it, it is a sexual dynamic. I mean, that's the bottom line.
And so you have to experience sex with your partner in a manner that you know, different ways which might create, you know, your partner being, you know, monogamous and you're the other partner, not monogamous and decide, you know, if that's it, I mean, you can't, there's only so much where you can go in terms of thinking about it. And God almighty cuckolds really think about it. Yeah, and. And think about it and overthink about it.
And so, but the reality is, is you've got to experience it. And so you just have to, you know, go out there and try to figure out a way how you can do it and ease into it. If if my recommendation be to ease into it and, you know, kind of make some decisions or you know, have some revelations about we know what it brings to you so. Thank you. Thank you guys for answering that. It just brought another question
to my mind. I'm going to ask you guys because Anne and I have gotten this question probably 10,000 times. What do you, what do you as men say to the other men who are trying to get their wives or manipulate their wives into doing this for them? How would you advise them? Oh yeah, the the question that every person that wants to be in it wants to have an answer, a clear answer on how to do it a a blueprint. Who should go first? Stuart Bishard. Well, I, I, you know, I just took it.
I mean, you know, I, I think to answer that question, you have to kind of understand the other person first that's asking you that and where they are, what, what is their situation in, you know, so that you can kind of answer in a, a way that they can understand for where, where they are.
That's a kind of a vague answer, But I'm, I'm the type of person that's sensitive to other people and trying to understand them when they ask a question like that, There is no easy way to, you know, kind of say this is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do. I first of all, my first question back to them would be what's your relationship? How strong is it? Do you have trust? Can you communicate? Do you champion each other? You know, those things have to be in place.
They have to be in place even in real life outside of a sexual dynamic. And if there's any weakness in there, I would say you'd probably need to, you know, strengthen, strengthen it a little bit and, you know, go out there and experience a little bit of a sexual experience, But without those bedrock, you know, elements, you're probably going to fail. And I, you know, I, no one wants to fail at anything. I don't want anyone to fail at
anything. But I want, you know, them to understand a certain reality of expectation. If you don't take the time to, you know, kind of work on your relationship and a lot of other ways to to have it strong because you will be faced with some, you know, hard, you know, emotions at times in a cuckold dynamic. And if you don't work on those things, it will fail. And so, you know, my basic answer is trying to understand then where the relationship is, how strong it is and you know,
and emphasize that strength. And then, you know, probably, you know, just say, hey, you know, it sounds like you if it's there, you just need to now make a decision if the two of you want to go out there and have a sexual experience of some sort to kind of test it. But you know, it's, it's typical cuckold. I overthink it sometimes too. So. Yeah, I think James, I agree
100% with you. What I see, you know, like on the Reddit forums and some of the other ones is, you know, how do I trick my wife into this or, or Crystal needs the word manipulate my wife into this. And when I see those questions, it instantly in my mind says you're not ready for this.
You know, your relationship's not ready for it and you are not ready for it. Just by the fact that you are willing to manipulate your wife in order to get your sexual jollies right there has answered the question to me. You know, we, there's there's no reason to to, to talk about, you know, a. 100%. You know, no, we saw I had quite a few examples of that in the whole swinging thing, like it was such a. You can tell when it's going to
crash and burn pretty quickly. Oh yeah, we've all seen it, Yeah. Absolutely. You're right, Anne, the swinging world has the very same thing. Usually husbands that have two active an imagination dragging their wives into an experience that their relationship isn't ready for, right? Right.
And then more often than not, it's the husband that has the, I don't know if it's a guilt attack or what, but he's the one that the next morning wakes up with this sexual hangover and guilt and shame and Oh my God, what did this whore do, you know? And. The beast is out of the closet. Yeah, right. Yeah, his aunt says. Be careful what you want. Be careful what you wish for. I mean like it's.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. These women get turned loose and they, you know, they enjoy it and then all the sudden, you know, the husband feels. Anyway, it's just craziness. If you know if you really want to have a great cuckled relationship, start with relationship and then get to cuckle down the. Rd. One of the things we wanted to cover was how do you balance your, your life? And I know that we had other conversation that'll be added out so we probably have a little
more time. But how do you, how do you balance being a cuckold? And you know, from your real life to your cuckold life, even though they're very, they're blended. How do you balance the two? Yeah, for us, it's very difficult. I would, I, I, I, I don't. Would you agree? It's probably our most difficult challenge. Well, from my perspective, the difficulty factor is that I so rarely have a lover that we're not in the arena very much. I mean that's that is the difficulty factor.
So it's kind of a non issue for us only because we lack opportunity when there when there is someone and usually they're, you know, shorter term. So it, you know, we really haven't had a long term connection that we would have to actually, you know, deal with work, you know, cut life issues that could come in the future. But so far we just, you know, we, we just haven't had the longer term experience to be
forced to pick and choose stuff. So I interpreted the question a little bit differently and, and more about how do I move into submission and more of a femdom relationship. So not very specifically cuckolding, but more the femdom, you know, submissive role-playing that goes on in a lot of cuckold relationships and, and ideally in our cuckold relationship. And it's I, I just have trouble shifting gears sometimes, you know, I, I do tend to be a kind
of aggressive alpha dude. And then it's hard for me to change that gear. And it's very difficult for Crystal because, you know, we're, we're both amped up and, and then all the sudden to try to flip this over to, to this power inequality role-playing, it's, it's just very difficult, I think for both of us to change our mindsets on a dime, you know? Well, I think because of our dynamic, we don't have this, these extremes.
It's more constant. There's a lot of subtleties and teasing and things that happen regardless if I, you know, have a date or not. And we, you know, like you, I don't, you know, splash, I made-up for a year, you know, so. Or at least too. Much too much. Well, it was, it was better than I thought. We can maybe talk off air and we can share some funny things, but I feel like we don't, you know, do we have it in the forefront of our mind all the time?
No. You know, family things are happening, you know, but it never goes away. So I think because we don't have this extreme power shift, if you will, no or roll shift. Yeah, there's we, I think to put it pretty simply, we're, we're a chill couple. And so I think that we're very comfortable. Yes, we have real life. Today was, you know, an active day of things. But here we are now.
And I think the because we're both chill, we don't seem to be affected by, like Anne said, the extremes that could happen. I think that we flow very easily between what we have to do and who we are and a sexual dynamic. We're I feel very strong as a person, as a cuckold and also outside the life in life. And, and could, you know, she could be, you know, getting ready to, you know, either vet someone in the back seat or, or
getting together with someone. And I can be easily, you know, still doing what I need to do relative to things that are not maybe as connected to what she's going to do. But when she comes back, it's there and we connect and you know, she tells me about it and it's, you know, it's great. You know, I think that it's, you know, something that, you know, you're just so comfortable about it that we don't have to think hard about it, I guess is the best way to say it.
You know, we just have to we just it just naturally will, you know, ease into a conversation at times for us if we just want to you want to talk about some things, bring me up to speed of what you're doing or you know, the in the your dates or whatever, or you know, just, you know, coming out of it, you know, coming out. It sounds boring, but. It's just like or you come out of Flash.
What I'd like to ask, I would like to ask you guys if you can lend us some chill pill because obviously we were both ramped up to about 900 miles an hour all the time and it's a problem. It's a problem. Yeah. Going back to the spiritual aspect of it though, one of the things that I hope to benefit from a cuckold relationship is to chill and to and to learn the grace of humility.
For example, you know, speaking to a a Catholic, you would understand that that you know, there, there is this there. I think that there is a certain subtle grace in being able to step down and and chill out and control your emotions. And you know more than control your emotions to master your emotions. Right, that's a good.
You know, it's, it's, you know, it's an interesting, you know, situation where, you know, like splash, it's an event that brings a lot of black men to the table, so to speak. And seeing Anne is, you know, in the candy store, so to speak. That's, that's fantastic. I, you know, step aside and that's what I'd like to do. That's how I experience it best, as much as possible. Coming back. You, you got you. You know, we have been gone for a week, not only because of Splash, but other things.
And you suddenly realize you got to come back to the real world. Well, you, we don't feel like we're abandoning anything. We're just feeling OK, we need to do this, this and that. But then, you know, later on we sit down for dinner or have a drink and we will start talking about Splash, you know, and it's just like we ebb and flow based upon what, you know, how our days going, how the things that we have to do.
But we always try to make sure that that conversation does include our sexual dynamic at times because there's we don't. We're just that's who we are. Yeah, but it's. Yeah, but it's not 24/7. No, it's not 24/7. There's no there's no schedule or regularity. Right. Yeah, there's, you know, I just like I said, Evans. Yeah, OK. I want to be Anne and James when I grow up.
Well, I actually think I I at least I would rate myself as being a pretty good, you know, in quote marks cock when we're in the dynamic, when we're in the moment that, you know, you're with somebody, you know, it's that's not when we have our trouble. And I say this, you guys know I love her absolutely dearly. You know, the the wheels aren't coming off of this at all. And, and I think it's good that we can actually be honest and frank about, you know, all.
Every moment isn't special. Right. That's for sure. Yeah, so. And and so don't don't take this wrong like the wheels are coming off the bus because they're not. And I and I'm just madly in love with this woman. But we do sometimes when there's not other people around. We can get gritty. Yeah, we can get gritty. Yeah. And and because both of us wants to be in charge. Yeah. We can just be go ahead. I just haven't beat him enough to get him to figure this thing
out yet, so I don't know. What were you going to say, Anne? Oh, I mean, I we definitely can both be a little bitchy towards one another and you know, I want more and he, you know, my angst of not having any lover, you know, rubs off on him. You know, it kind of goes full circle. You know we're. Yeah, but we're there to champion for each other, so you know it's not. Not always rosy, but most you would try to make. So I I do remember the question from the the cuckold cocked my life.
They asked us if we are an FLR and. You broke up right there. Say that again. They asked us if we were an FLR couple and we are not in the true sense of what most people say is always one person in that role. We we are in the sense of our sexual dynamic. But as a couple in life, we have strengths in different ways that it's important that we work as a
team. And so that is something that some people kind of confuse the FLR as being, you know, pretty much a dominant thing when it doesn't really have to. You can enjoy it. But you sometimes, you know, like us, there are other things that I just I'm better AT and there's some things that she's better AT. And we have a family. And so these things, you know, require teamwork. So what about you guys? Do you have a definition defined roles crystal? Are you always the one in charge?
No, I just get aggravated at him because, you know, we have power struggle. That's exactly what we have. You know, we're all we're both fighting for the top rung or the last say or something like this. And you know, I think it's a bad habit that we've gotten into. But no, we don't we're not in any any kind of dynamic 24/7. It's for us, it's not compatible with day-to-day life. We have also family.
We have other things going on and you know, and when we're with other people, this never comes up. But when we have too much time with just us. You know. We'll both be fighting for the last word in the conversation. And I don't know, but yeah, we, we don't. We're not in anything 24/7. Yeah. If I can fight you for the last word here. Yeah, actually, here we go. See I rest my case. Actually, what I was going to say is we're, when we're in a play dynamic, I think we do
enjoy FLR, you know, I right. Is that fair? Yeah, yeah. But, but in day-to-day, no, there's definitely things that she's better AT and she usually does and other things I'm better at and I usually do. And then there's a little bit of overlap in some places, and those are the. And then there's a fight, Fight Club. But but, but when we're in the dynamic, I enjoy FLR. I think it's really fun. Yeah, and he goes really deep too.
So that's the that's the time where he can really, he's really fun to, he likes verbal humiliation. He likes a little impact. I mean, I really can just sort of let it fly and hopefully get all my angst out there so that it doesn't come out when we're just like having dinner or something like that. Right, ruining at a nice
restaurant. Yeah, it's not like we're having dinner, but actually one of the things that we've enjoyed doing a couple of times when it, when we have guests over is, you know, I, I just go into this total service role where I'm cook and Butler and serve them dinner and, you know, and, and so, yeah, it's and, you know, it's pure service. I mean, it's, you know, and I and I get a kick out of it. Yeah, and it's and it's super fun. So we don't have any trouble at all in the dynamic.
It's just we can get into power struggle outside of that. I, I love that when you, we, we haven't had too many. I've had, I've entertained him in here, but very few have actually like one in particular had a meal here and it was pretty much on the fly. But James served us and you know, he served us drinks and you know, he's been very, very good about that. But I love that because I'm usually the one who does all that in normal day-to-day. Except. For the clean up.
Yeah, I'd like to say we share, but I don't know, maybe Crystal would disagree. But but it's fun. I mean, if you guys ever get the house alone to where you feel safe and you can do something. And I certainly think it's a lot of fun to just, you know, bring in, make a really nice dinner and serve it several courses and pour the wine and, you know, all the all. The stuff you know, Yeah.
And that's why, you know, and I, I definitely have a distinct preference for people that I have a good relationship with that can spend a weekend, not just a hit and run. That's not really my style. And I don't do that really very much. But you know, people that I have a a friendship with and a relationship, we like to have them in for the weekend so we can really just indulge in the whole thing, both of us. That's interesting because we
gravitate towards the hotel. I mean, you can, you can make a comment to this, but the fact that, you know, that we're so but we both work out of the house. We're here together most of the time. And so there's just like we want to get out of here. And so Anne has, you know, expressed a lot of times and and she's had, you know, she with Anthony. You've, you know, known for years he would come over.
But at some point it's just like, it would be great if we can experience a different vocation. Yeah. But but I but on yeah, I think experience hotels are fun, but I also, we haven't had that deep of our relationship, you know, on a consistent basis where you could just have someone come over for dinner and stay the night. And to me, that would be ideal. There's plenty of places for you to sleep. We already have that all worked out if we were to have that.
But you. Know but I think once in a while a hotel's fun but I also like the idea of, you know, having someone over for dinner and like just experiencing life with them besides just sex, you know there's more to. It yeah, that's that's by far our preferred what way to play, I mean. Yeah, that's, you know, and that's really been my ammo since forever. I, I have to have connection and, and I really appreciate men that have big brains and I want to have a, at least a
friendship. I'm not really interested in sleeping with people if it isn't somebody I would want to be friends with. So, so my field, although we don't have very many black men here where we live anyway, that narrows my field even more because not everybody's willing to invest the time in being friends and getting to know each other and, you know, spending a little bit more time. So, so we have long, long, long dry spells. So this real life thing has to be a real thing because most of
ours is real life. And then like you'd mentioned about sleeping in the other room, that's typically our thing too, is we might all go to bed to well, actually, the way it usually works out as I'm doing the dishes, Crystal and her friend go upstairs to bed and then I'll join them, you know, like 1520 minutes later or something. And we'll all play for a little while. But then I go to the spare bedroom for the night and she'll, she'll sleep alone with him for the evening.
That's kind of the thing that we do now, you know. Yeah, and it's and that we both like that. So three people in a bed is just nobody gets any sleep, you know? No, I I think that sounds. Great. Yeah, Super fun. Well, I so much thank all of you for being willing to, you know, open your hearts and your stories because I think a lot of people will benefit from this. And I just appreciate your willingness to rearrange your
schedule to be here today. I think we should do it again because I think there's a lot more we could talk about, but but we'll talk about that later. But anyway, for now, thank you Ann and James and Bitchard. It really was a fun conversation and I hope it benefits our listeners a great deal. We're just like real humans out here in suburbia, like everybody else. It was a little secret. It it was fun and I appreciate you and including us so.
Yeah, we really enjoyed. It Yeah, Thank you so much. All right, guys, signing off.