He gets a lot of joy out of me being the one in charge, but it's so hard, especially for men like my husband, to let that go. Like they want it so bad, but they fight it. They have this huge desire and fantasy to be super submissive, but to actually do it, it's some days it's like pulling teeth. Like, hey, you forgot who's in charge here, man. Hey everybody, I just wanted to give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a one-on-one coaching session.
It's called Ask Crystal. It is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore ethical non monogamy. Whatever your dynamic is. I've been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a ton, and I hope to share some of that wisdom with you in the hopes that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the show notes and I hope to see you there. Hello listeners. Crystal Well Chair, and I am happy to report we've got a good conversation to have today with cuckolders.
Abby. She is a queen of spades, She is a content creator and she's going to tell us a little bit about how she got into this lifestyle and and where she's at with everything and maybe where she might hope to go sometime. So, Abby, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Let's start with how, how were you raised? What did you hope for relationship wise as a kid? I mean, did you aspire to like just get married, have some kids, White picket fence? That's how I grew up.
How did you What were the ideas that you had about relationship when you were small and maybe even before you were ever looking for a partner? Pretty similar to yours. I grew up. My parents are actually still married. So I grew up with married parents who, you know, I, I strongly believed in marriage, but I noticed they didn't have the most loving relationship.
And so I knew I wanted something different, like a different kind of marriage, But I knew I always wanted to like I was like, I'm going to be married and have kids and everything's going to be perfect. So when you thought about having a different kind of marriage, did that just mean that you wanted one that was conflict free or you wanted a completely different situation? My dad is a very passive person, and my mom is definitely the dominant person.
And I always didn't like that so much just because my dad never stood his ground, you know? And so I was like, I want a strong man. I want a guy who's going to put me in my place if I needed to, which ultimately it led me to picking really bad men. But it's interesting how that works in the psyche. I just recently had a conversation along those lines. I can be very assertive and very sort of masculine. And now I'm drawn to the same
thing. I'm drawn to very, very masculine men for, for some of the same reasons that you identified that I I wanted what I didn't have. And it's interesting how we just develop like that as human beings. So now you're married and you have a family and you're also in the lifestyle. How did all of that happen? So my husband and I met on a dating site which happened to be a kink website and on his profile it noted that he was into cuckolding which I had no
idea what that was. So I had been recently divorced and looking just to I was like I'm never getting married again. I'm going to live my best life, I'm going to fulfill all of my desires. So I went on the website thinking I was kind of kinky, but I have no idea the level of kink that I had in me or that there was out there in the world. So I met him on there and it was a pretty easy conversation honestly because of the way we met on that on that website to start the journey.
But when I first Googled what it was, I was very shocked and turned off. Like there's no way I'm doing that. Well, tell me more about this 'cause you, you know that you wanted something different and you're on a kink website. How did he explain cuckoldry to you? And what about that turned you
off? When you Google it like it's, it literally sounds like there's this little tiny guy in the corner and you're demeaning them and degrading them and like, how can I ever treat someone I love like that? That sounds mean. I can never do that. And then he sent me Venus's podcast and he said this is a really lovely podcast. It really explains it well. And there were some people on Twitter I didn't even know there
was naughty Twitter at the time. So he sent me Venus's podcast and I binged listened to several of her episodes. She described it so beautifully. And then some of the people I would follow on Twitter showed it and I saw through watching some of that. Like it actually is loving. Like you can tell the partner is loving it. It's not mean. And you could see that love. And that's when I was like, OK, I can do this.
That's that's really helpful for new people looking to try and find a way in. So thanks for explaining that. And I think have, you know, I know I learned along the way that not everybody has to do this the same way. I know some perfectly lovely cuckolders and long term marriages and they don't do any part of the humiliation play. That's fine. You know, it's just finding what
works for you. My husband happens to love it, you know, does does your husband, did he embrace that part of it or you do you do more of a just non monogamous thing? He likes he He has a fantasy for the humiliation. It's hard to do because I feel like in order to do that you have to have the right bowl. He's hard to humiliate because he like I can't do the small penis humiliation because he is not small person. He's very well endowed. So it's kind of a joke, but so I have had to learn that.
There's definitely things we were wanting to explore further in the humiliation aspect, but yeah, I guess Long story short, he is into the humiliation part of it. And so that's really interesting. Talk a little bit more about how you rearranged your mindset to be open and that you realized that you weren't hurting him, but it's something that he enjoyed and something that might have been sexually stimulating to him. How did you sort of school yourself along those lines?
More trial and error to be honest. So like our first date when we so when we met, we were long distance and so he said we'll just keep dating and just send me pictures or whatever. So I did that, but I thought who cares? He doesn't care. We haven't even met. So but then when we met, we went to I had a kind of pre arranged I'd been speaking to a guy.
I pre arranged for this guy to meet us at this local sex club and so we went on on our first date there and ended up taking this other guy back with us to the hotel. And so it was kind of like a test for me to see how he was going to react to that scenario. And through the whole evening at the club, I was kind of having fun, obviously, but also testing him to see like, is he going to react like previous partners and like, get jealous or shame me later?
And none of that happened. And I saw like his eyes were lit up like a Christmas tree. And you can just see that like just total adoration. And he was totally into me. And we'd already developed a pretty good connection online or not online, but speaking to each other since we were long distance that it just, it was just like fireworks. So it sounded like that, just the willingness to experiment, to try something and and then follow that where it goes.
That is hugely great advice for our listeners out there that wonder about that and are afraid to do that. But it sounds like you had a great experience and and when you could observe that he was just totally enamoured of you for indulging in this thing that you guys were creating together, what did that do to your level of trust for him? Oh, it magnified it. Like I don't think I've ever
really fully trusted someone. Like I trust him because it just because I've always been a promiscuous person. I've always been pretty outgoing and it's a lot of what guys always love about me when they meet me. And then when they date me, they're like, quit flirting, quit being flirtatious. And I could see that he that never turns him off. He actually loves it. And so to be able to be my true authentic self, I've never felt more me or more able to trust a partner in my whole entire life.
You have just said a mouthful there, girlfriend. I know I have to often talked about this profound intimacy that can come from this lifestyle. And you just very succinctly described how that happens where you have an idea and you are unsure, but you try something and then you see how everybody feels about it and then you talk about it. You know, all of a sudden you go from a relationship to like real intimacy and that's where the party is. And it's hard.
It's it's thank you for sharing that because that's, that'll be really, really helpful for our listeners who are looking for an on ramp and not quite sure how to find it because they're scared of all these different elements. And that was very, very, very helpful. So thank you for sharing that. Absolutely. You guys have been together for now a couple of years and what challenges have you met that you that you've been able to solve and some may be that you haven't been able to solve?
Well, he was in the lifestyle for a good 20 years before meeting me. So he's had a lot of experience in lots of things where I was coming in as newbie and pretty much open and willing to like he always tells everybody like I just dove in head first. So it's pretty much open and willing to kind of just let's do this, he'd say. He'd bring up a topic kind of like throw it out the wall and
see if it sticks kind of person. And now further into it, I felt like he was kind of driving it a little bit on certain things. And then now it's like now that I'm settling in to me, there's certain things that I like more that maybe he doesn't love so much. And so we've had to find a balance as far as that goes because, you know, he sometimes he has, you know, we've had things happen and he's like, this is not how I imagined our lifestyle, like at all.
And I'm like, well, you, it's not just one way, like I get to decide too. Now. It's not just, you know, we have to have these discussions because it's going to evolve over time because we're both going to decide what works, what doesn't. Something I might like, he might not. Those are some of the challenges we've had. Which are all absolutely perfectly normal. Nothing in our society teaches us how to have a healthy non monogamous relationship. But you said a couple things
that are really important there. And first of all, your recognition of him and your appreciation of him who embraces and encourages your personal sexuality. That's huge because the men in our culture, that's not what
they're taught. You know, the patriarchy says women stay home, have the kids be quiet, don't vote, whatever they you know, and so saying go ahead and you know, fuck the guy down the street is it's it's usually not on the menu, you know, and and so, but but you describe that beautifully how you guys are navigating in that you're appreciating him for just
letting you be you. You know that you feel yourself for the very first time that you can experience your own sexuality as it is, and not everything is going to be predictable even to you. You know, you'll find you might find things that you really enjoy or really don't enjoy and it it'll all be a surprise. But the fact that you have figured out that as you talk about these things, you can figure out what works, what bothers the other person, how
much, how important is it? And then and you just, and you navigate that way. So that that was really, really helpful. Thanks. Thanks again for sharing that. You're welcome. Is there anything in your experience that you haven't been able to solve yet and that you're still kind of grappling
with? I I wouldn't say we haven't been able to solve it. It's just kind of like I mentioned before, just the evolution of certain things and then also balancing regular life with lifestyle because, you know, before we were long distance, so I would have to play by myself and then we'd have to do it that way. We figured out a way to do that long distance. And then now that we're in the same home, well now it's family. And so you think, how do you do that?
And what if we can't have a sitter and then we're still in the same boat where, you know, you might have, I might have to go by myself. And then we really haven't finessed the when I play by myself because it's just, well, I'm just, I'm just too nice. I just, I really love, I wouldn't say I'm too nice, but like he's a, he wants the bull to come in and have his way with me and then see you later, you know, or if he's there and he's having a small talk, that's
fine. But when he's not there, he's like, what the fuck? It's taking so long. Like why aren't you calling me? I'm ready to talk about this. I'm excited and I'm just so in in the zone and enjoying it. I love the connection that I do have with my bowls. So I love to chat, chat and snuggle and all of those things. Have you guys set some boundaries that way?
Like if I'm out with a bull, I, you know, it's, don't call me, I'll call you, you know, have you set some rules or some boundaries like that that will help, help it be a little less gritty? Oh yeah, we had to learn that cause one time he was like, I texted him like we're done. And then we were, me and the guy were talking for like 30-45 minutes and by the end of it, he was like irate.
And so then he's like, OK, just don't tell me you're done until he's like leaving, you know, So we've had to like go over things like, OK, this is what you, you just can't just don't text me till like you're free to talk, 'cause when, when it's done, when he thinks I'm done, he wants to talk. It's his time in his mind, it's his time for us to have that time of even if it's on the phone or if you know, he's out of town or whatever, then that's our time.
So he doesn't want to know I'm done playing until I I can actually talk to him on the phone or if I'm coming home. That seems that seems like a reasonable compromise. Was that pretty easy for you to implement that? Yeah, it was, but it was just, it was just a learning curve of trying to figure out like, OK, how do we, you know, how do you feel? Cause he's pretty easygoing, but that was just kind of the one thing that we really kind of
struggled with finessing. Haven't you noticed that when they get sexually excited, they're not very reasonable? No. Go on. Like calm down. I'm like, I'm in cloud 9 over here. I just got my world rocked. I know, back the fuck off and go Jack off or something. Why are you? So mad about leave me. Alone. That's funny. I love that, that's really funny, but it's really true. Men with hard ONS are not reasonable at all. They're all their thoughts. Down there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can't talk to them. They're, you know, Yeah, Like that. So you said some important things there. And this comes up very, very frequently with, if not most, very many women who are consider themselves to be cuckoldresses
and men who want to be cucks. This notion of sort of topping from the bottom where they desperately want you to do it, but they want you to do it their way, their time on their time schedule, their way and everything like the way they want it. It sounds like you're communicating pretty well with your husband, but how do you, let's say, get him to recognize first of all, that he's topping from the bottom and that's not what this is about?
And maybe a couple of ideas about how you redirect him when he's doing that. That's a good point that I do think he that is, and until you said that I'm like, he, that's exactly what he's doing and I hadn't thought about it and I don't that's something probably I need to work on is telling him because I've, I've said before, you know, this isn't always going to be the way you've imagined it, because now you have me involved. Before it was just you and your
imagination. So that's a good reminder. I do need to do that because my husband is a very alpha, like in every, every aspect of life he is. And so he definitely tries to talk from the bottom all the time. And I think if he realized he would, he would, you know, just really kind of giggle at me
because he would know I'm right. Well, it's, it's definitely an issue that that you don't want to just sweep under the carpet because because you know, one way that I have found that has worked with my husband is to let him know when he's doing it and say, I understand your motivations for that because you want to see it a certain way. And he doesn't do it at all anymore. But in, in the early days, but it, it's it, it begins to rob my joy. Yeah. What's joyful?
What's what's joyful about this is that I can finally be myself and own my sexuality and have a man that celebrates that. But it's on my terms, not yours. Exactly. And and if and if you bring that to his attention, that when he does that, it starts to rob your joy and your freedom and you defeat the whole purpose of it. Well, and it probably, if he was being honest, it probably defeats his joy too, because he gets a lot of joy out of me being the one in charge.
But it's so hard, especially for men like my husband, to let that go. Like they want it so bad, but they fight it. They have this huge desire and fantasy to be super submissive, but to actually do it, it's. Some days it's like pulling teeth, like, hey, you forgot who's in charge here, man. Yeah. No, I I totally get it. My husband is a total A2 and he just craves this other side. It's easier when you have a, an A a longer term bull that understands that and can kind of
help play that role out. But in the absence of that, when you're just dealing with mostly one off strangers here and there, it's really up to you to to regulate that. But for the cucks that are listening out there, take this conversation to heart and understand that you probably formulated a lot of your ideas about how you want it to be from porn. Your wife is not a porn star and
she's not your kink dispenser. Encourage her to express herself sexually 'cause you'll get more joy out of that and she'll get more joy out of that. And let her do it her way. She may do one thing one day and another thing another day, but let her be free. That's what she finds joy in, and that's what you ultimately are finding joy in. And every time you try and top from the bottom, you rob her joy. Yes, and and so stop it. Stop it. Just stop it.
Yeah, I don't remember exactly what it was. The other day I did something and I denied him and he was like, you've been watching my Twitter. Why yes, I have. Yeah, thank you for the idea. And I have a whole list of plans for you. Yes. Which you will obey. No, it it's fun, it should be fun. It should be playful, it should be no, you know, if, if you're bumping up against the tension thing, then then somebody's off track a little bit. But this topping from the bottom
is really common. And it, and it does, it robs joy. It robs joy and freedom 'cause that's what it robs is your freedom to make your own choices. And that freedom is attached to the joy that this lifestyle can bring.
So. And I wonder if it's harder for Cox, who Like my husband, who they've been in the lifestyle or cucks that have had previous cuckolding relationships and they have someone newer like me. You know, that once they're cuckoldress actually like gains her voice and knows, OK, this is how I'm doing it. This is what I want and this is how I'm going to play with my bulls. And it might look different than what you thought playing with her bulls might look like. Like you have to be OK with it.
Well, that's exactly right. And again, I think too many of them are bringing in their own ideas from whatever they've seen in porn. But here's here is the payoff for you guys. I hope you're listening. The joy that your wife has gotten from you embracing her freedom and her sexuality, that comes back to you in spades when if you're an alpha and you can see your wife gets to observe you being subservient to her and a bull or however that plays out
for you. That sense of value and that that deep affection that comes from having another human being recognize this sort of shameful thing that you hold that I think many cucks are, are ashamed because they have this subservient thing when society tells them they need to be strong and aggressive all the time. You know, when you're loving partner can see you lay all that down and be submissive to her or the bull or whoever.
However that's working out. Your addiction to your wife will escalate about 10 points because it works both ways. She's going to love and appreciate you more for letting her be free. You will get the same thing. On the flip side, B let it go. Stop trying to control and your wife will observe you doing that and she'll love you even more. Instead of shaming you, which is what you're most likely afraid of, she's going to love you even more.
So try that on because that's now we're starting to get down into where the goodies are in the cuckold life. It's this profound intimacy that can come from it, but it goes both ways. It's not just A1 sided thing. Yes. What do you hope for the future for you and your husband? How How would if you had your ideal wish, how would your dynamic evolve over time and, and or or just keep or just progressing in the way that it
is? So for the future, we don't have a huge community out where I live for for cuckolding. And so I've kind of been reaching out to some couples that I've seen on social media recently to hopefully start a group because I would love to have a community of like minded people. I've gone to some events and just being around people who you can fill your like fill your complete self around. Also to like meet other bulls.
I found a couple local bulls that I like, but it would just be nice to have that connection of other couples that are like us too. And I feel like it would benefit them and our community because I feel like this is such a wonderful relationship. It is the best I've ever been in. I just feel like more women should explore it, you know, And I just would like to share that with as many people as I can. You know, I have exactly the
same motivation. You know, I think our relationship now is probably 10 or 20 times more intimate and more joyful than the marriage I was in for many, many years. And it is the consummate cake and eat it too lifestyle if you do it correctly. And I think you shared a lot of the Nuggets about how you start and and you're careful along the way and you, you know, self correct when need be. And those are all the steps that it takes.
But the joy and the intimacy and the connection that you get is just unparalleled. And I agree with you totally. We all, we have a very small community of like minded and I feel that probably it's mostly going to be online because they're not in our area. It'd be great if they were.
But staying in touch with the people that you resonate with, however you need to do it. I think community is very, very important because we can all share ideas, support each other, have a group of people that can help you problem solve when you need it. I think the men especially need that. Women tend to make friendships a lot easier and I think it's really good for the men to connect with other men and say, man, I didn't know she was going
to put me in high heels. Yeah, I've noticed that with my husband. Like when we've gone to lifestyle events, like the first one we went to, he was like, Oh my God, like look at all these people. They look, they're just like when he started, he felt like, you know, ashamed and like, why do I like this? And then he was around all these other people that had the same desires. And you would think you'd see them at PTA meeting and you're like, Oh my gosh.
So now you walk around at school or at the grocery store wondering, are they? Do you know, 'cause there's so many people that are in the lifestyle, you just wouldn't know. Yeah. And I think, yeah, that's absolutely true. They're they're everywhere. They're around us everywhere. But a lot of this, I think, especially on the male parts, has to do with coming to terms with their own shame.
And community can go a long way to helping you recognize that you're not so you're not a weirdo, that you're not a pervert. You know, there's lots of men that have those ideas and those fantasies and they have beautiful relationships with their wives and girlfriends. And dealing with shame is is a big hump to get over. But recognizing that it's there is like the first step. So yeah, Abby, as we close out, let the listeners know where they can find you. So you can find me on Twitter or
X as it's called. I don't know what to call it anymore. Cuckoldress Abigail or a cuckold? Just Abby. And then also there's links on there for my only fans if you want to check out some of my kinkier stuff. Well, you've, you've really given us some great, great, great food for thought here and I'm so glad that we got a chance to chat and I hope we can do it again sometime soon. Me too. So thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you. Yeah, thank you for having me on.
I had a great time.