Contrast is everything from me, Like I'm super white, light hair, light eyes, and I love dark black men or any shade of caramel, you know? So it's, it's, it's that contrast. It's they carry their masculinity differently than white men do. They tend to be very confident and I love that contrast, that sort of hyper masculinity, not in an obnoxious way, but just, you know, just really masculine. I think that gives me permission to really step into my femininity because I'm a strong
woman. I can, I can be pretty masculine myself, you know? And so I like the contrast. If somebody that's real, that's much bigger than me, that's darker than me, that's, you know, more masculine than me. Hey everybody, I just wanted to give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a one-on-one coaching session. It's called ask Crystal. It is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore ethical non monogamy, whatever your dynamic is, I've been living in this dynamic for 10
years and I've learned a ton. And I hope to share some of that wisdom with you in the hopes that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the show notes and I hope to see you there. Good afternoon and welcome Anne. We are here again and with with my friend Anne. And one of the reasons that we decided to do this together is because she's been in the lifestyle way longer than I have. But we both have a lot of experience and there's a lot of questions and a lot of evolution
and a lot of change in thinking. And, and so we're here to sort of tackle the questions that have come up for us. So I want to encourage anybody that has a question about anything in the podcast or if even if it's not to please leave us a note. That's what we're here for. We're here to answer questions the best that we can. Welcome and hello, Anne. Hi Crystal, think it's so great to be here again. Looking forward to what we talk
about. It's always entertaining and thought provoking for me and hopefully the listeners too. Yes, I hope so 'cause I know for me too. After we're done with an episode and we think that we've covered it pretty well, my brain will continue to go and I'll have five more things that I wish I would have said at the. End of it so safe. Today the question is an interesting one. I've gotten this one so, so many
times. For anybody that's read my stuff or listened to my pods before, I am black, only I don't have lovers that are not black and so I don't have very many. Is is The upshot of that? What if you want to keep score it one more one thing we have in common. Yes, yes, we, we both live in areas that are not terribly diverse. And so, you know, we, we take it as it comes. But anyway, today's topic is if you could start over as single, would you choose a cuckolding
dynamic or not? And would you simply choose a black man as your partner versus the white guy that you're married to? So those are two completely separate topics. We'll do the best we can to to answer them both from our own perspectives and, and then we'll go we'll go from there. And do you want to kick it off? Let me just start with the first part of that.
If you could start over and you didn't know everything that you know now would do you would you choose a cuckolding relationship, do you think or, or you know, maybe revisit how you evolve to this dynamic and then that would put a context. Well, hopefully. I might know more than I knew, but I, I truly think as far as the cuckolding dynamic is something you have to grow into and build trust with your
partner. And maybe I would have that in the back of my mind, but I wouldn't use that as the defining moment of selecting my primary partner because for me, you need to get to know someone right away. And I think if I put in a like whatever field or fat life, you know, I need a cuckold. Is it going to predetermine or prescript something and then the true relationship won't form?
But I think because I'm, I would prefer it, you know, because of just how I am, I think it's would be too hard to just say this is what I'm doing. I think this is something that develops within a relationship. I think you can have it in the back of your mind and if you see it's not going anywhere or you're with somebody who just is not willing to share and embrace and try things, then you know I would end the relationship.
But I do love the cuckolding dynamic so I don't know if that'd help if that answered the question. This question is interesting because you and I have two different backgrounds. You know, Anne and her spouse have been married almost 40 years. So they've had, you know, they started somewhere and then they evolved over time and ended up in this dynamic, which I think it sounds like it works for both of them, which is lovely. You know, I'm different. I was married before.
I just over the course of that marriage, I determined that monogamy wasn't for me. I felt like I had all the responsibilities and obligations of marriage and none of the benefits. And so when we divorced, I was single for a long time, never thought to have another serious relationship. But then I started to change, as you do when you go along. And I thought, well, OK, if I'm going to date again or if I want to put myself out there again, what kind of relationship do I want and who?
Who would this person be? And I came up with cuckolding right away because, as my dear favorite psychologist would say, all humans have core conflicting needs in relationship, the need for safety and security, which I did, and the need for adventure and change, which I did. And so my solution for that was to find a man who identified himself as a cuckold. So literally, I came right out of the gate.
I put a just maybe A2 sentence ad in Craigslist years ago of all places and and my dear Bitcher answered that ad. We went out for a drink and here we are today, 10 years later. So. So my answer is I did start out with a cuckold relationship. If I would have known what traditional monogamous marriage was going to end up like because my former husband was a perfectly lovely human being.
He just was a terrible spouse. And you know, I might have had a different idea then, but I was all in on monogamy and the white picket fence and, you know, the whole deal until that whole thing just blew up for me. So, so that's so we started in very different places and ended up in the same destination at the at the end of the day here. Yeah, well, I think if I'm starting over, I definitely would want a non monogamous
relationship. I think what I was saying is I don't know if I'm going to define cuckolding, but I'm going to describe what I want that I want to be non monogamous because that's just how I'm going to be the happiest. Whether you know, yes, that would be a cuckolding dynamic and maybe originally maybe I would allow or allow support my spouse also being non monogamous, but I would want to
lead that non monogamy. So we've talked to to nookie, you know, she pimps out her cock and I think I see doing that, but I I do I would be non monogamous for sure because I need I need variety to be happy that we've talked about this. Not that I want connection, but I want I need variety and I like a little bit of sluttiness too, a little, you know, impromptu things that are one off that are sexy and fun. That's OK too, but I would I would be non monogamous for
sure. For sure I agree with you that I I could never commit to monogamy ever again. It doesn't make any sense to me. I certainly plan to stay married to my husband but we will never be monogamous. We never wanted to be and we never we we. We were non monogamous from day one and I that's something I would definitely do again. So Bichard as he date other women, no. And not the slightest interest to do so. Right.
And so I, I think it's finding that that partner that's head over heels for you and wants you to be happy. And if it's going to be cuckold, that's the term cuckolding. But I'm sometimes I wonder if I say I have to have a cuckold dynamic that all of a sudden all the porn scenes will pop up and that's going to be the driver. And that to me, that's something, however you choose to practice cuckolding and what kinks you have is something that develops over time.
But if someone comes in, it's like, Oh yeah, I want that because I can do this and that. And, you know, fluff hurt. And then I, I think that could backfire. So it's finding those like you would just hit the jackpot, like finding someone who truly understood the value of the dynamic, you know? But you know, it brings up also another another issue if if I would have been the same age
when I married my other husband. And let's say I was clear on being non monogamous backed in. So then the issue of because I definitely wanted to have a family. And so I'm wondering if I would have been so quick to choose non monogamy when I knew I wanted to have a child and I and how that that gets confusing. You know, we're well beyond childbearing. So that's not an issue that came up for us, but that would have been an issue for me too.
I would have grappled with that. There's a few people that have been able to do like Polly situations and raise kids with multiple partners and all that stuff. And, and I believe that that can be done. I just, I'm not sure I would have had the confidence to do that when I was in my childbearing years. You don't know, you might have. It's hard to say, like, well, because we've been adventurous and exploring all sorts of things from the get go during childbearing years and whatnot.
You know, I could see it working fine. Yeah. Well, you're sort of my hero, and so that's why, that's why I always have to pick your way. You know, I had, I unfortunately, I wasn't, you know, dating many black men in my child bearing years and, you know, no birth control failure. So all right, I don't have any. You know, my babies weren't beautiful skin. They're, you know, blonde blue eyes.
There you go. Oh, it's interesting because Bichard's former wife, they used to, you know, she loved to do the black gang bangs and all of that stuff. And they had tried for a long time to get pregnant and couldn't. And so all of a sudden out of the clear blue sky, she turns up pregnant. They had no idea until that baby was born what color it would be, right? You know, And that's so that was a whole process that he had to go through.
Like, and he was cool with it. He would have been, he would have been fine with it. But you know, there's just a lot of lot of nuance in these lifestyles and, and how you navigate through there. Now, the other question, which I find really interesting, and I just get this so often, I think it's most often white men very frequently are offended by the fact that I say I'm black only like, like, what's wrong with me? And that's not the point.
So would you choose a black man as a partner if you started over rather than a white one? It is a preference that I have, I think. I've never lived in an area that was highly diverse. And I think my first answer to that question is had I lived in Atlanta, GA or Houston, TX, you know, or somewhere in Florida and I had equal access to both black, I would have, I would have dated equally and I would have married whoever was the best fit with me.
That's, you know, that would not have been an issue. I didn't go out searching specifically for a white man when I married Bichard. You know, he's just the guy that fit. So the question is kind of convoluted in my way of thinking. You know, I have a perfectly good white husband and all of my lovers are black and I'm not ashamed of it. So there you go. Well, would you cuckold your black lover? Yeah, see that's. And there are there are black couple. Yes, there are. There's plenty.
And so are you gonna hopefully develop that relationship with that partner so that you can be non monogamous and that is he gonna be devoted to you or is he gonna cause some black men are very have a sense of ownership over there. Proprietary, yes. Yes. And are you? You're a strong woman. Are you gonna allow that? And it's interesting, I would definitely date a black man. I would want to be non
monogamous. And if he were wanted to be non, if he were non monogamous, hopefully at some point he would come to the conclusion that I'm the only one he wants and he's going to totally love it and support my my sexual appetite. I remember being at Splash. I don't know if it was this year or the year before, and I think that it was a mixed couple and she was the one having fun and he wasn't, you know, like he was
just there for her. And I, I think it's just finding that right partner and if it, and I think it would be great, that would be have your cake and eat it too, you know? Yeah, that that would be that would be ideal. I think. What are the things that caused me to be sexual, feel sexual and want to experience that? You know, there's there's a few key elements to it for me. One of them is desire. I want to desire someone and I
want to be desired. But another one is contrast is everything from me, like black, I'm super white, like light hair, light eyes, and I love dark black men or any shade of caramel, you know, So it's, it's, it's that contrast. It's super masculine, which many of the black men that I've been with in my life have been they they, they haven't.
My experience has been they carry their masculinity differently than white men do. They tend to be very confident and I love that contrast, that sort of hyper masculinity, not in an obnoxious way, but just, you know, just really masculine. I think that gives me permission to really step into my femininity because I'm a strong woman. I can, I can be pretty masculine myself, you know?
And so I like the contrast. If somebody that's real, that's much bigger than me, that's darker than me, that's, you know, more masculine than me. Well, also, so they're flirting with you and they're bringing it on. They're bringing it out of you, Yeah. That that extraction process is absolutely addictive to me. So that's the stuff that I look for. You know, I and I, you know, I don't experience, I don't care how many hundreds of white men that I've dated in my life.
It's a different experience and I don't experience that those same things in the same way. I just don't. No, I don't and it's interesting like cause so James, when I met him, he was had that power and bravado, but now over time, you know, he's still, you know, a confident man and you know, most cocks are very strong men. But you know, I think there's something to be said to just having faith in letting this things kind of play out a little bit.
I think sometimes if you just start, it's got to be this way, you may miss something. You may miss the best sex of your life because this guy originally says, you know, I'm not going to do that. And it's just like, well, I, it's about my sexual pleasure, right? And let me there's I, I that's first and foremost.
And and. If I truly have this genuine, authentic relationship with this person and he wants to be my primary partner, then it's going to work out the way it's meant to work out and he's going to be my cuckold. And if he doesn't like the word cuckold, it will probably be cuckolding anyway. It just some kids. People just get so hung up on labels, you know? Yeah, that's one of the biggest hindrances in this particular lifestyle is there's so much negativity toward that term.
And I wish we could just dispense with it. But it it, it describes a very specific thing. And I don't haven't figured out how to duplicate that in a simple way. But there are so, so much negativity about the term. And it's a shame because there's nothing shameful about it. There's nothing anybody should be embarrassed about or, you know, afraid of or anything like that. But it's there's just a lot of negative connotation to the word cuck or cuckolding.
Well, also, and if you think if you talk to a cut queen who you know, it's just the, you know, the opposite, it might be the same thing. You know, where I want to be devoted to you and it turns me on for you to go fuck other women and you know, but include me in ways that turn me on. There was a profile I read on some site and the IT described that the woman is sometimes a cud queen and I was on a swing site and I'm like, well, that's great to see that.
Yeah. Where she she doesn't, she gets more turned on watching her partner have sex than herself with other people. As human beings, we're nothing if not hyper complicated. All of all of us. We have 1000 different shades and and shadows and and it's all good. It's all good. And part of the fun in my mind from being non monogamous in general is it's just a continually a continual
unfolding of personal evolution. The things that we have to talk about, the things that we discovered that we didn't know before this it it's just a real evolutionary path. It has certainly has been for us. We've learned so much about ourselves and each other and, and that just continues to go on. You know, in spite of the fact that I don't have lovers very often, we live on past glories a lot because we go back and dissect everything and, and what do we like about that and how
did that make us feel and. It's just been, it's been really great for deepening our personal relationship. Well, I agree, and I think some of the past experiences we have have just reflecting on them again, just really help us grow as a couple. You know, some of the moments that we talked about before, some of the angst and all those things that come up, you know, the best sex I've had.
Those are the videos that James likes to, you know, open up and tweak, you know, and see what other kind of urgency can come up with. And, you know, and they always say don't dwell on the past, but you don't have to dwell on the past, but you can use the past to help you, you know? Yeah, it's in the future. Yeah, it's those, I mean, we, we got to where we are because of the, you know, we're a culmination of the our past experiences.
And I don't see that it hurts anything to go back and revisit that. And you know, this nuanced discussion of why Black man, I mean, I've really taken a deep dive into that for myself, Like where did I start? What, what sort of family did I come from that led me down that road? And it's been, it's been a fascinating journey of self discovery. So, and I hope that never ends. The same, Yeah, I didn't grow up
with a lot of black people. I went to a tiny, tiny, you know, blue collar, tiny Catholic school. And there was one black boy in our class. And then I really wanted to go to the public high schools and we had to go to the other. You know, we didn't have a choice. And I think my world would be a little bit different because I would have been exposed to more kids of color 'cause it was very, very white.
Yeah, same. I don't remember seeing a black person in my hometown, like anywhere, not to mention not in my in my high school. But the other mitigating factor there, too, is my family was deeply racist. I mean, profoundly racist. And when I fell in love with this black man in college and wanted to share that with my mother, you know, I had to. I had to hear her tell me that she'd rather see me dead than with that person.
I mean, that's my mother. The good news is, is that as we are exposed to other cultures and other people, you know, why, why didn't I grow up and duplicate her mindset? Because I went to college, you know, she didn't ever, you know, get out of her little bitty town in Arkansas. So there's something to be said for exposure to other people and
other other races. But that's tough, you know, because on some level I felt like I had to choose between a really close relationship with my mother and how I wanted to live my life. Yeah. Well, at least she didn't instill fear, you know, So she had her opinion, but she didn't. You didn't weren't afraid of being with black men she didn't make you like. Well, I, I always knew that she, you know, she did not like black people. It was obvious in our household.
But, you know, back then and the people didn't talk about it openly. But I never really thought I would hear her say I'd rather see you dead. I mean, that was kind of a sock to the head. I didn't realize that she felt that strongly about it. And it it did. It altered our relationship. It altered our relationship. It did I I'm always amused when people get all uptight about why I like black men. I think I've earned the right to like black men.
If I do, you can. You can like whoever the fuck you want, yes. Talk. Yeah, it's just like, come on. Like leave me alone. I like could you? Imagine like how how boring life would be if we just. Yeah, or if we were all alike and all thought alike and all did the same things. I mean, it's that's what makes the world fascinating to me is that we're we're such a diver. The human, the humans on Earth are a very diverse bunch. And I think that's a good thing.
I think that's a good thing. Any parting comments and that you want to sort of wrap up the topic for yourself? No, but I, you know, I was thinking of some of these other topics that it rolls into as I do feel like the cuckolding dynamic is very healing and there's some, I don't want to get religious, but spiritual connectivity. Of it all? Absolutely. I think if you I would yes, choose cuckolding.
What I call it cuckolding. I don't know, but I'm going to be non monogamous and I want my partner to be devoted to me and if he's black, fantastic. And all of my lovers will be black if he and it's finding that right person. But it's so it's so healing to have the able to have these open conversations about everything that you're thinking.
And I mean, last night, for instance, I, we were watching the Part 3 of this documentary and I just got, so I was not because of the documentary, just some other conversations and things that had popped up in the week. I was just so like aroused, turned on. And I had to like the soon as that thing came off, I had to like, you know, masturbate and just get my wand out and just go for it. But it was so. But, you know, so James was just like right there.
Like there was no. Don't have to hide. You know you don't have to. Hide and you have these experiences and you're happy with it and you can talk about it. It's it's very healing on a daily basis. It's not just in the event of whatever. Yeah, no, that I couldn't agree more. It's healing in a lot of ways. Anyway, we hope you enjoyed it. Please leave us your comments, your questions, anything that you, any observations that you've made for yourself, you know those.
We always appreciate that. And and again, I deeply appreciate your time and it's ever so much fun to talk to you on everything. Yeah, it was good, just it was good chatting with you and can't wait till next. Time, Yeah, Till next time.