Dave Gulas:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Beyond Fulfillment podcast. I'm your host, Dave Gulas, and this week, my guest is the founder and host of the leadership in manufacturing podcast, Sana Vinding. Welcome, Sana.
Sannah Vinding:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. It's so good to be on the other side. Thank you.
Dave Gulas:
Yes, yes. Thank you so much for being here and taking the time. We really appreciate it. Okay, so as I mentioned, you've got the podcast here, and you've got quite an interesting background. Can you just give us, like, your backstory and how you got here?
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah, of course. So original from Denmark, just to get that out of the, you know, the way. So that's my accent, but I'm an engineer. That's my background, and I have, like, a master in mechanical engineering. So that's. That's the whole world I've been in. And then I've been morphing into marketing as well over the last many years because I love to be creative. So that's what, you know, that's where I am now.
Sannah Vinding:
I'm like a digital marketing director for a semiconductor company. And then on the side, I have my podcast, which is the leadershipinmanufacturing.com dot. So it's fun to have a podcast. And I know you think, I'm sure as well, it's fun, right? Because you learn so much from these conversations and how I started it, I wanted to expand my network, and it was under the pandemic, so that's why I was like, okay, sitting here, right. What do I do to still have my network going? So that's why it sparked. And I think we can all become better leaders. So that's why I was like, okay, let me reach out. Let me interview industry leaders within distribution and manufacturing.
Sannah Vinding:
And that's how we met as well, right?
Dave Gulas:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I was able to be a guest on your show recently, and that episode's already out. So appreciate that. Okay, so when I think of engineering and I think of marketing, they don't typically go together within the same person. Right? Right. How is that? I know you say you love to be creative, but how did you kind of morph into the marketing role after such a heavy focus on engineering?
Sannah Vinding:
On engineering. And I still use my engineering degree. I think that's how the critical thinking right now, where I am. Right. You know, looking at how do you. How do you de engineer what an engineer is saying and then put that into marketing? I think that's important as well. But how it happened, I worked in product development and there I had to, of course, work together with cross functional teams, and one of them was marketing. And then you had to explain, right, sitting in that chair saying, okay, these are the features for this product.
Sannah Vinding:
It was an outdoor light fixture, explaining how to put it together, what's the benefits, what's the features, all that. And then slowly through my career, I just got included, I think that's how to say it, included in many more meetings on the marketing side and had my voice at the table, and then it just slowly happened that way. And I love to be creative. I paint, I make jewelry. So to have that creative side has always been there. So then I think also that's why it's fun with the podcast, because I can learn so many skills just to be in front of a camera. Right. I didn't like that in the beginning, and I think I'm doing better now, and I will be better in a week.
Sannah Vinding:
Right. So it's just, that's some of. Yeah, I think that's my journey.
Dave Gulas:
Okay, interesting, interesting. Okay, so now you started the podcast in October 2020.
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah.
Dave Gulas:
Like you said during the pandemic. Now, why the focus on leadership in manufacturing?
Sannah Vinding:
So it changed a little bit in the beginning, and I also changed names. So if you go back, I'm sure you can see unlock innovation, because that's what I started with then it was named mind the innovation because the unlock innovation.com was already taken. So I was like, okay, what can I change this to? So then I said, mind innovation, and I thought it was an excellent name, but then I don't think I got the same traction by that, that because the interviews was around manufacturing. So then I was like, okay, let me just call it what it is. So that's why I changed it to leadership in manufacturing, because then it's like everybody understands. Okay, that's what she talks about. So that's a little bit of the journey. But I think the industry that I'm in, it's a little bit, I don't think it's a hidden industry, but sometimes you see more the final products that's out there.
Sannah Vinding:
Right. The computers or the solar panels or whatever we see out there where there is these components that goes in it. But everything that's behind the scenes is happening, and it's just great to learn within this industry and share the knowledge. So sometimes I see it as well. To have these interviews, I learned something. And when I launched the first episode, I was like, if I can just teach somebody else just one thing, then I accomplished something. I learned something and somebody else who listened learned something as well. And then that makes me happy.
Sannah Vinding:
And now it's just, you know, it's starting to grow a lot, which is, which I love. I love to hear that people are saying, oh, you know, this is great. And we love to hear what's, what's going on and seeing. So, yeah, okay.
Dave Gulas:
All right. All right. So, so that's, so you have you always, like, had that thirst for learning, particularly from other people and, you know, within the industry and just, you know what I mean? Because like you said, every guest that you interview you can learn something from. Has that always been something you've sought out from other people?
Sannah Vinding:
I think if you ask me, when I was completed my master in mechanical engineering, I was like, I'm done learning. I'm like, no more books, no more. Right. I would have said, I will not sit and go through another test or do something because I was tired of that. So it changed. I think it changed with your experience. It changed with the different roles and responsibility I have through my career. And I also think what the whole technology, what's happening in the world, right, of how we communicate, how we follow up on projects, everything has changed.
Sannah Vinding:
So if you don't keep up on that part, you turn into a dinosaur, right? You're just left behind. So I think the fun and the creative side of learning has bloomed again over the last many, many years. And then I'm sure same with you, right? When you then accomplish something and you finish it and you see it, you get so proud and then you're like, oh, my God, I didn't know maybe to do this. Like three years ago, I had no clue how to put a podcast together. And now I, you know, I know different things. And when I started, I did a few things and then, you know, you slowly expand and grow and saying, okay, now I need a website. Now I need, you know, to have some social post around it. Now I need to make short videos and stuff like that.
Sannah Vinding:
And then you learn the skill set along. So I think it's just fun now to learn it. And there's so many resources as well, right? When I was in school, there was no YouTube. I'm that old. But I think it's the tools and resources you have available now to learn. I'm so jealous at my kids of like, oh, my God, right? If I didn't understand that teacher back then and you just sat there and you had to find out within your, talk to your friends or find somebody who could teach you or help you to understand it. Now you just have all these resources. I think it's wonderful, Jeff.
Dave Gulas:
Yeah, that's such a great point, too, because you hear that so often with people where once they maybe get out of school and they get into a career like that, they stop learning. They're not going to read any more books, and so many times people get stagnant. So you took the opposite approach where you viewed learning as fun, and you're looking for new creative ways that you can gain more knowledge and then use that to help, you know, start a business and just grow that, as well as continue to build your skillset.
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah.
Dave Gulas:
Okay. So another stat that I've seen, and I've heard quite a bit since I started the podcast, it's like 90% of podcasts don't make it past episode seven.
Sannah Vinding:
I heard that, too.
Dave Gulas:
And so the current name, when I looked on listen notes and your top 5% on listen notes, which is. It's a big deal. Um, you've got over 96 episodes in this current name. But, like, so how did you, like you said you just decided to do it and you started. How did you keep going when. When the vast majority of other people quit so early?
Sannah Vinding:
Good question. And sometimes I am really tired on a Sunday night because this is my, you know, it's my side project. Right. I do in evenings and weekends. So, um, I think it's that you. Yeah, it's the happiness after, when you see it, right? You go through it and you say, okay, I actually did it. And you get some really good conversations. And then it's also the feedback you hear when you then have your network or you go out to a conference or you talk with colleagues, somebody, they said, oh, I heard that.
Sannah Vinding:
Or I listened that. I really like that. That just gives me that boost of saying, oh, my God, there's somebody listening. Right? They really like it. So I keep going because sometimes it can be a little bit lonely, right? Just to stand here with your microphone, and even if you interview one, right, you're like, okay, is that actually. Is there anybody out there? Right? But so it has been a roller coaster, I wanna admit that, that sometimes it's like, oh, my God, I have to do this again. But it's also important with the podcast that you have. You have that heartbeat that you keep going, because again, I have it.
Sannah Vinding:
Every second Tuesday, I have a new episode that's coming out, and if it's not there, right, somebody was like, hey, you know what happened here, right? I'm actually listening either maybe that Tuesday morning or Wednesday, and, like, you know, what's going on with Santa, right? Why is it not here? And that's how I react to some of the podcasts that I'm listening to. I'm like, I have one. I'm like, he hasn't put anything out since May. I'm like, what's going on? Right? Is he all right? It's to make sure you have the cadence and still have fun. Because, of course, now at the episode, at 96, right, if I'm not having fun, I wouldn't have been at 96. And now I'm so excited that I'm going to episode 100, and I'm already exploring, like, oh, you know, what should that be about and who should it be? Should it only be me? What's going on? So I'm starting to be creative about that. But it's. Yeah, some people think it's easy just to start a podcast.
Sannah Vinding:
It is easy to start, but to make sure that you actually are standing behind and have that cadence and keep providing value, that's a whole other level, and you're on the same boat, right? So, yeah, yeah.
Dave Gulas:
I mean, I remember very, you know, in the very beginning, very few people were listening, and I was telling a bunch of people I was doing it before I started, and they were like, okay, good luck. And, you know, I just focused on any positive feedback. Even if it was a couple people or a guest I had, they were like, wow, that was great. I really appreciate the interview. I just use that as my, you know, that to continue to sustain me and keep me going and before I could actually build some momentum. And, I mean, I think that's so important, too, right? Because so many people give up. It's not easy. Sometimes, you know, your mind is going to come at you like, why are you doing this? No one's listening, right.
Dave Gulas:
But you have to keep working and build momentum, and the more you do it, the better you get.
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah, yeah. And I think just what you said, you get better. I'm used to my voice now, right? In the beginning, I was like, oh, no, I hate my voice. Right. And then I was also, like, being in front of the camera, I'm like, oh, right. I had to do a lot of retakes. I still have to do a lot of retakes when I'm saying, you know, the little pitch for the next episode that's coming out. But I've become much better to be in front of the camera, and that is for sure because I've been standing here for a couple of years now doing it.
Sannah Vinding:
So the whole practice, practice is so important. And also you have to have sometimes like an 80 20 rule. Right? So if you screw up sometimes, and I do because I can't pronounce every word because it is my second language, and then I'm like, I'm just saying the word again and I'm like, yeah, I'm sure somebody else has been in the same boat. They still understand me. And again, this is me. Right. So they know. They know how I am.
Dave Gulas:
Yeah, yeah. Right. And you find, too, that when you do it like that fear, that anxiety, right. It's, it's, it's in your mind when, when you do it and you realize, oh, that was, that wasn't that bad. And the more you do it like that, that fear is just gonna go away.
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah, agree.
Dave Gulas:
So now how did you, did you, was it all just kind of figuring out on your own the editing, all the different aspects of the podcast? You know, I think we were talking about your website where you built it and you do all the, the back end work yourself. I mean, how did you get into all that?
Sannah Vinding:
So I've done websites earlier on, so that's why that was not difficult for me to do. And just saying, okay, let me just build the website. Yeah, I edit everything. I use final cut pro. I've used different tools. And then I'm always hitting that wall of like, oh, I want to do some extra something something. And then I'm like, oh, I can't do it in this software. That makes it easy and fast sometimes to make a video.
Sannah Vinding:
So then I'm just back to the real editing program where I edit it. But I think by editing it myself, I know it takes time, but I re listen to the whole episode one more time where I'm actually reflecting and I'm like, okay, that one is really good, nugget. I actually want to make that an extra clip, and I want to put that out, promote that on the website. It gives me some extra learnings and reflecting because I think sometimes, well, with leadership or just your life, right. Slowing down and reflect can actually make you a much better person or better leader. So by doing some of this myself has actually helped me as well to bring much more value to the community, to the audience who's listening to the podcast.
Dave Gulas:
It's a very interesting point, too, because I don't do my editing. And in the beginning, too, right, when we didn't know, like, I was actually doing write ups and I was going through the actual transcripts and I was scanning, I would kind of reread the episode. But that's a really interesting point too, where if you relisten to it one more time, something else will hit you or you'll maybe hear something a different way. And that can spark more learning, right?
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah, it does. So for me, I see that as an extra learning and also, right, I record and then it will be a couple of weeks before I listen to it. So as well to go back into that passion and vibe that is in that recording. Right. It helps me as well, of course, to listen, to re listen to it.
Dave Gulas:
And how has the process been for you getting guests? Has that been like easy or has it been challenging, like in terms of getting people to come on the show.
Sannah Vinding:
In the beginning where nobody. Right. I pulled in, best friends took it in. Right. Like almost like family members as well. No, that's why you start and saying, please just come. Because I need to get past, you know, as you said, episode seven, right. Different, different things.
Sannah Vinding:
There's different websites as well where you can sign up and saying, hey, I'm looking for guests, you know, within this topic. So there I got some connections and otherwise with my background and I've been in this industry for many, many years, either now somebody recommends somebody and saying, hey, you know, I have a recommendation for a guest or I actually look as well and saying, oh, this person has a really awesome background. I would love to invite this person on. And then, you know, I connect to the person and saying, hey, I would love to bring you on. And I think now that having many episodes and have the consistency as well, when somebody is looking right now, they're like, oh, right, it's not just a new something something, right? There's actually some history to the podcast now. So I think it's also easier to see if somebody is interesting or not.
Dave Gulas:
All right. And with the marketing too, you've done very well. You've got over 150,000 downloads, right? Currently and your top 5% on listen notes, like from just someone starting from scratch. How did you go about marketing and getting it out there to become known?
Sannah Vinding:
So I think, again, it's the whole, it's the organic, that's why I use my marketing hat, right. This is where I can use the whole skill set of digital marketing to say, okay, using the keywords, making sure that I have a great title, make sure that I push it out, making I have the website that's like helping along. And then I upload everything to YouTube as well because you have to look at. If somebody is searching, many will actually search on Google. And then if you have the video as well, that just goes in. So everything is organic, which I'm really proud of. So that's just another accomplishment that I've earned my way. When you are looking up the podcast or you're listening, and I'm really proud of that.
Dave Gulas:
Was there a certain inflection point where things started to take off? Like a certain point in time?
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah, I had a few. When I go in and look and you can just see the spike and I'm like, what happened here? And it's not that I'm sitting every day or every week and looking, but sometimes there is a spike. I also had an episode, and that was over the summer, right, where I was like, okay, I also need a vacation. So I actually took an older episode from last year that was really popular. And then I was like, okay, let me introduce it again and saying, this is really worth listening to. So if you haven't listened to it, right, you should listen to it. And that one took off and I was like, wow. Right? So it's.
Sannah Vinding:
I don't have the secrets to say this is the thing you need to do. I think it's back to the cadence and then making sure that you are bringing the value to the listeners and all the audience. And then sometimes it's just somebody else recommending a podcast or saying or recommending this episode or something that's where it can take off. So you never know. I don't know.
Dave Gulas:
All right. And so with all the people you've interviewed, you know, you have 96 episodes right now with the leadership in manufacturing. I mean, what are some of the most important lessons and things you've learned from all these great leaders that you've interviewed?
Sannah Vinding:
There's so many, right? I think I always ask them in the end, I was like, you know, what kind of advice would you give yourself? Like, ten years ago? And I think there's so many things there. I think one is like, slow down sometimes. Even though. Because I remember when I had the first episode ready, I was like, publish at that moment, right? Instead of waiting the two days and saying, okay, this is my cadence, right? But I was so proud of having the first episode. So I was like, you need to see the world. But I think slowing down and reflect and take some time before you speed up again. I think that's a really, really good advice. Another one from another episode is to say, you can look at your network and you can admire other leaders, but you can also look at these leaders and saying, okay, these are doing this person, right.
Sannah Vinding:
Is leading in good ways and maybe also they have some bad habits, right. Even though maybe it's not habits, but that's something where you're saying, I don't want to do that. So reflect in other leaders, but embrace what you want to say, I really want to do this, but also learn from what maybe is not as flattering and then go that way and saying, I'm not doing that. So that's like, there's so many different learnings, I think as well. If you look on LinkedIn, if you connect with somebody and they start, you know, you connect and then they're like, oh, you want to buy my product? I'm like, no, right. It's like one of the things was also that the sales process, right. You don't look at if you were dating somebody, right. You don't start kissing them on that 1st, 2nd after they said, yes, I want to go out with you.
Sannah Vinding:
It's take it slow. There's so many things, even though we have so much technology around us. Take the time to know your audience or to know your customers before. Bring the value first, before you start saying, oh, now buy my product.
Dave Gulas:
That's great advice. Yeah. Because we can all relate to the pitch slap. That's what it's called where you connect with someone and they're just pitching you right away. And I'm sure you can relate to having a podcast. I mean, I get, I don't know how many emails from people that want to do my editing. They want to do my marketing. It's every day, right?
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah. Yep. I agree. I get a lot of them where I'm like, yeah, no, thank you.
Dave Gulas:
All right, so you're coming up on episode 100. Like, what? What's next for the podcast? What do you have, like, future plans and what do you see yourself doing with it?
Sannah Vinding:
Great question. I think I want to bring some of the previous guests on where we'll have, I don't know the word is a panel, but I would love to bring on more dialogues instead of just having it as an interview. It's more like three people or it's like four people. So that will be a challenge. Right. Because how do you moderate and also being part of that conversation? So I would love to take that to the next level. For the 100 episode, I have invited a few guests back and I have to edit that one. But it's more to ask them and saying, well, I asked them and saying, how do you know that you are a good leader because we've been talking about a lot of what does it take and skill set and all that, but to be more personal.
Sannah Vinding:
So I made a theme, and now I've also learned that that's not going to be one episode because then it will be like 2 hours long, and I don't want to do that. So it will be when we hit 100 and then a few after them will be about that topic. So I think future is to go on some specific themes or something like that.
Dave Gulas:
Okay. And speaking of that question, because I remember on our show when you asked me the question about how do I know I'm a good leader? I mean, let me just ask you, how do you know that you're a good leader within your career?
Sannah Vinding:
So the answer is like, that's a good question. No. How do you know that? It's not easy. I don't think it's easy. And I think when we talk, right. It's about the feedback you're getting within your team and the organization, but also outside of the organization. Because if somebody was, like, looking and saying, oh, how would they describe Sana? Right. Is it good or bad? Or is it positive or, you know, what will they say? So I think it's to look at everything and then making sure you're looking inside yourself as well.
Sannah Vinding:
To say that tomorrow I have to change a little bit, because if I want to be a good leader and I want to stay of being a good leader. Right. You need to expand on your skillset and be better. And I think the whole feedback is so important that you listen to the feedback. You're getting the good and maybe not as good, and then just find out how you navigate through that and then you can improve. And it takes time. But I've been at places where somebody was saying I had a team and then somebody was like, oh, I want to be on Senna's team. So I was like, okay, that's a good sign.
Sannah Vinding:
Right. But it's about listening and observing. And also. Yeah, the silent feedback is also important because you have to make sure that you're seeing everything.
Dave Gulas:
Yeah. So true. And that's something that never stops, right? You're always working on becoming a better leader no matter what position you're in.
Sannah Vinding:
Yes. Yes.
Dave Gulas:
All right. So, Sana, if people want to check out the podcast and get in touch with you, what's the best way they can do that?
Sannah Vinding:
Go to leadershipinmanufacturing.com. that's the whole website. Or they can find me because I don't think there's too many with my name. So look for LinkedIn and look for senate ending. I will. Lovely. Do you know, to connect with everybody. Just don't sell me anything.
Dave Gulas:
But, yeah, no, no pitch slaps. Right?
Sannah Vinding:
Yeah.
Dave Gulas:
Okay. And we'll link all that in the show notes for everyone. All right. Well, Sana, thank you so much for being here and taking the time. We really appreciate it, and that's all the time we have for now. We will see you next time.