SexTech Startup with Emilie Wiersma

Hi everyone. My name is Patrick kill and for today's guest, I had Emilee wiersma on, she's building a start-up in the sex tech industry and we go over all her learnings in there. The platform that she's building NY that industry in the first place, she's the CEO and co-founder of confetti with a K. And I'll put all her links to a socials in the description below. Check her out. With that being said, enjoy the episode if I work. And I don't have anyone around

Amy, that's a stop working. I can keep working for a long, long time, and it's not healthy, I feel same. So the issue with me is that if I relax I start to freak out so relaxing for me is actually not relaxing. Yeah, and I have three mentors at the moment. That also helped me with, of course, you know the business part, but they really stressed the fact that I need to take

care of myself as well. Yeah, so sometimes I just call them And I'm upset about something or, you know, when something goes wrong and then everything starts starts falling down and you're like, what the hell am I doing? Yeah, well, if I have a moment like that, I just call one of my mentors and they would usually tell me m, just shut up. Shut up your phone. Shut off your computer. Nothing's going to happen. If you are not answering emails within 24 hours, just go and have a walk.

Go to the gym, do something else. Yes, but don't work for now so I'm happy that some people keep me accountable, you know, and say you need to do something about your mental health as well. That's that's really cool that you have that like support network in there. Yeah if you get to a point, we have 33 mentors that have that level for you. Oh just ask. Yeah, just ask.

Yes. So the first one I got his name is called florists or scam and he's a part of the neighbors clunk ports in the Netherlands. Yeah. And it is a How do you say it? It's a group of people that quit working or retired, but Florence rains Florida's, for instance is a former director of in the liver.

Yeah. And very smart guy, you know very good job and he helps me out usually with all the contracts and if I have to have very hard conversations with people's or Partners, he's the one who joins me. Yeah. So, I'm very happy that I found him. He's already been with me for almost two years, I guess. And then I'm also every other other month or so, I have a call with still scavenger flow, and she's the Belgium, digital Champion. So sort of the nail, accrues of Belgium.

That's why I always introduce her, okay? And she helps me more with staying sane and how you grow a business. How do you attract people to work with? And that's really helpful. Yeah, and then the third is somebody who used to do a lot with startups here in the Netherlands, called news. And he helps me with, how the hell do you start a company? Because even though a lot is very straightforward, a lot is

actually not. Because if you've never done it before, yeah, you really really don't know what you're doing and it doesn't matter. But you just need people around you to tell you, okay? Now you need to go left or right or not do that or do that or go where the energy is instead of fighting, you know, against yourself. So without them things would be a whole lot different.

Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I've always said I want to start my own business. I don't, I don't know when the time is right, but I like that you already have your network up to a point where you have like mentorship and guidance throughout that, right? And you can I think the best part is those discussions, right? You can take their advice and be like, well I thank you for your

voice. I'm going to do this but those discussions in those insights and those perspectives their experience is going to help you a lot along the way because probably you're completely trailblazing when it comes to your own personal experience. I don't know if this is the first company you're building up, but if this is yes, going to be a lot of new learnings in there. Exactly. And the well, this is the first

official company. So I did something previous before this but it was It was really funny. It was a embroidery sets that you could buy, okay? And you can create a little artwork that said Stronger by battle, which is a little turd angst are cut or straight. Yeah, it's that actually got that sentence from our Queen after the war because it was so bad.

It'll to them. Yeah and I thought I just want to create a product it was it wasn't about the embroidery or about anything else, it was about. Creating a product from A to Z and doing everything in between find out. Hey, what is my strong suit? What do I like to do? And I actually got into the newspaper and that kind of stuff which is really funny because the company was called bait that home to Eric.

Yeah, like the better hand job. So it was already in the stars that I would do something in the industry that I'm in, at the moment. Yeah.

That's also. I mean, I know a lot of people that have died idea but to pick it up into actually do it. That's a second. And like kind of scale that you need to have as well. Otherwise you're never going to make it right? Yeah and yeah well for me it was I really hated working for a ball so it wasn't it was a no-brainer like I had to do something for myself but the the hard part was what are you going to do? Yeah. So I've always had loads of

ideas, loads of ideas. Yeah, but never ever had. Did I have an idea where I thought I need to do this. I need to do this. This is going to end. This is what I can do. And This is what I would like to do because I can I learn something new every day which is really nice. It's an industry that I like plus it's in a growing industry so I can make money off of this,

you know? And that was the hard part, finding the right idea that really resonated with me and, you know, you need to, it's an investment, not only in money, but also in time, especially with a two-sided market place. It's not like you build a website and it works. Yeah. So, The marketplace is usually take for 25 years before they really take off. How are you going to fund it? Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Can you walk me through initially? Like how you find this thing? Are you found this thing? What it is also, and I mean, you're in a niche that not a lot of people are in. Yeah. So let's kind of break the ice on that. Yeah. So I'm in the sex toy industry. Yeah, yeah. That's it. There you go. How it started. Well actually a couple of years ago. I quit my job at Oracle And I started thinking, what is it that I really want to do and it wasn't, you know, I was thinking

that say you're 80 80 years old? Yeah. What are you going to tell people like I used to sell Cloud Solutions, completely different super boring. Right. So I thought okay that's that's not it and even though working there was a very interesting time and I learned a lot there and of course, you know, it's a big company. So it's good to have on your resume. I'm a but I thought what is it that I really want to tell people about my life and about working life because I like to work.

But what do you really want to do? And then I read the biography of De Ojo death, which is the, the owner of your opium, the most famous sex club in the Netherlands. Yeah. And what struck me was, even though that the stories were about sex for me, it wasn't about sex for me. It was about creating fantasies for people. People coming to you and saying, Hey, I want to do this. I want to experience that and making it a reality for them.

And I thought, wow, that is so cool and I'm a very open-minded person with my Dutch upbringing and it's always been easy to talk about these subjects for me. So I thought I need to do something with this. Yeah, so he started researching the sex industry.

What can I do a little turd? Um, and my initial idea was to start a BDSM room by Nvidia, semeru middle toward home because I was so stunned by the fact that people who want to do something with Kink or with sex toys or with sex are they can only go to places that are a bit dirty and a bit. You know, it's if you if you think of BDSM or if you Google it the first thing you find is a dungeon and it's red and it's black and it's exactly what you think it is.

Yeah but in my opinion there's so much more in Tween, why is nobody doing something with that? Because the market is probably way bigger than just people who want to go to those places. Yeah, so I already had a contractor. I was talking to the city of little turd, um, you need to go to the police. I was talking to companies that work together with sex workers in South and south of Holland. Yeah. And I was almost there. The plan was there.

Everybody was rooting for me to start and then Corona hits. Really. So what are you going to do? You're not going to put all the money? You have down. Yeah, you're done. So that led to me researching the sex toy industry, and I

found out that this industry worldwide is unregulated. Which means people or companies are allowed to sell sex toys that are toxic for the body. Yeah and with that I mean it can lead to UTIs. It can lead to yeast infections you can lead to chemical burns. Or just an annoying it you know. But how is it possible that we live in a world where you can buy sex toys that are not good for your body or your health? Yeah. Right. That's insane. Yeah, I mean, were you aware of

this fact? No, I didn't know that it was unregulated. I mean kind of my knowledge of that industry is very limited in how its own but I would assume that a lot of stuff should be tested because you're using on your body, right? Yeah. Just like moisturizer hair products or anything like that. That is all FDA. Regulated. So I would assume this is kind of the same but it's not.

It's not. So that's so I found out that the sex toy industry is unregulated and started researching who's doing something about this. What what else is going on? And I was actually going through the process of creating my own adult product. But then I started researching Amazon, Etsy, wish, all the marketplaces. Yeah. And I found so many shitty and crappy products. This, this is probably really unhealthy.

So I started ordering some and to be yeah, I didn't bring them all but it is so weird to see everything that you can buy online. Very funny.

But then I started talking to 40 plus sellers on Etsy to find out. Hey howdy, why do you sell here? Why do you sell body-safe, what makes your items body-safe? Do you really create it by hand? And I found out that there's just as the sex positive or sex toys are a lifestyle. Now, for a lot of people and it's not that Niche, you know, there are so many groups and people who talk about sex toys on a daily basis and really value body safety.

So that combined, with all the complaints, the sellers worldwide have over Etsy or about at sea, for instance, at Sea and their censorship. They make money off of these sellers, but all of a sudden from one day to the next day, can just say, okay, you're not allowed to sell her anymore, you're done, you're done. Yeah, they have all the power. They have all the power and Etsy is not one to, you know, pick up the phone and say, hey, but we can talk about it and you should

do this or that. So these companies for some, it's their livelihood, and they're not able to make money anymore, no pay their rents. So that's why I thought why not do it by self and build a Marketplace for all these sellers that are not happy. Because I actually found out that there isn't a problem for these people. So why not solve a problem for them? Yeah. What is the reason why Etsy would like take them offline? I'm not really sure because they

won't give one answer. Yeah. And they're not really strict about it. So, one day, they delete a lot. Some days. Some people can go back and create new listings. Some are completely banned. There's not one answer to that. Yeah, that's he had an IPO and I think there's so many stakeholders involved now and come on guys. It's an American company. I mean which is weird because they buy the most expertise they're the biggest Market

still. So yeah. But I would assume that all those stakeholders like some some were like okay we have to take this off. We don't want to be associated with any of this. Yeah. And if you go on the air to community, which is really funny. So if somebody if you go on Etsy And you type in unicorn, there is a possibility that a unicorn dildo pops up.

Yeah. And if your kid is, you know, sitting behind the computer and it's like, oh, that's a unicorn and click solids, of course, you know, the algorithm changes or your feet changes to because you're looking at that and they're going to see more and they're there. So many complaints from from from from very religious, people who say we have never clicked on anything like that and we still get to see all these Sex toys. Yeah, we are not having it and Etsy is a dirty company or whatever.

It's like yes, somebody clicked on it. Come on. Yeah. Be honest with yourself. Yeah, exactly.

You mentioned a lot of because it is on regulator, right? You don't as a supplier as a seller, you don't have to have body Safe products in the first place. It's cheaper. Not to do all the testing initially, to put that safety on there. Or of course, materials, like tpe or PVC are just T playing that's cheaper. It's Jeepers. That's the reason why they create sex toys from those

materials. So if you look at medical grade silicone which is the standard on my website that the sellers that's all my websites they create sex toys with medical grade silicone. Yeah it's just it's so much more expensive and especially for small companies. It's really expensive to buy small amounts of silicone. Yeah yeah. And then they also don't want to buy silicone from China because I was in China, they don't give you a certificate saying, hey, this is really silicone.

Medical-grade, you never really know what you're going to get.

So with your Marketplace, then I'm assuming you promised the safety, right of the products that it is body-safe that none of it is toxic. Yeah, so what we do at confetti is that before is seller on boards or becomes a seller and opens up shop. Yeah, we just have a call usually at least an hour. I look at the Products that they're selling, I ask them. Hey, what kind of materials are made from? What do you consider body safety because you don't want to give all the answers right away.

Yeah. And what has been very, very important in the research that I do is all the communities that are online, so, on this court. But also on Twitter, there are so many people who are very, very keen on buddy, safety. Yeah. All the research research has already been done, you know? So It's really easy to find out who's a body-safe seller and who's not by just going on the internet and talking to people. And yeah.

So before seller comes on board and is allowed to create a shop, we just discuss, what is body, safety? What do you sell? And make sure that they fit our profile. Yeah, I think that's awesome.

I love hearing how you kind of through research. Figure it out. Okay, this is, this is a Real problem in the market, right? And I was actually giving the attention that it deserves because we're still talking about people, right? Just as you have shampoos or creams or whatever. All the regulation is in place for that and everything is bonus.

If you don't even have to question it when you buy something from a store, when you buy something online but for these products specifically, it's odd to me that it is not there. Yes. And that was actually also my first experience with with a sex toy without making this a raunchy story, right? I got it from a friend and it was A rabbit jelly Rabbit, vibrator and I opened it and it smells so bad. It was like, what is this? I get a plastic sense for the

plastic surgeons. Yeah, so but again, it's sold in Europe. Yeah, it's in a package. Yeah, it's fine right here because it has a Cee Cee logo, which of course is bullshit. But I thought where in Europe, This is fine. Yeah, turned out, it's not fine at all. The toy was made of tpe sapporo's it Harbors bacteria and within eight months there, so many bacteria in its it can lead to infections and psyche. How come people don't know about this?

Yeah that's dangerous. Yeah that yeah you started with

this idea and you had this thought of okay I'm going to make a marketplace right just like Amazon is or just like at CES. Those are giants though. Yeah. What is kind of the first step in figuring out? How to build a Marketplace? Because you need to be online, you need to be everywhere. Where digital all those people not going to find you. What was kind of the first steps that you took all the first steps was finding out, how are we going to build this?

Yeah, I'm so I actually started out with working together with a digital agency Which, of course, they told me we can build this. We can build this. Yeah. But it Marketplace and especially with all the different variations we offer because that is important with the sex toys that we sell and is actually unique selling points. Yeah, you can create a sex toy according to your wants and needs. So how big do you want it to be How firm do you want it to be? What colors?

Do you want it to be? Yeah. Do you want extra effects on it? So there are a lot of variations that go in one listing or one product. At that a customer can order. And in the beginning, of course,

everything was going great. The first three months and I saw something and saw some, some, some things that they delivered well on. But in the end I never got the a fully working Marketplace. Yes. So after about eight months and losing a lot of money, the marketplace filled horribly and I was stuck with a pilot group of ten Sellers from all over. Europe, that were dying to go to to on board and start selling but I didn't have a Marketplace,

like shit. What do I do now, as I started researching, how can I build a Marketplace as fast as possible with only existing technology. Yeah and that's when I found my new co-founder. Some there is a Shopify expert and we said okay we're just going to try it with chopa Fi slow cost. Let's try to go life as soon as As possible. And we were able to do it within three or four months. Okay? And now the first 25 companies have onboard it within only four

months of being life. So yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. But your initial thought was

like something custom, right? That's why you went to the digital exactly. Because I've never built any website before. Yeah. And I also looked at of course other. I also looked at Shopify back then but I actually I saved a lot of money because I Always lived and died squatters. So I and you know, working at Oracle I just saved all my money invested everything. So I was like, okay have a good budget. Let's just do it right from the

start, you know. Yeah. And I got a little bit carried away with all you need everything customers. Like yes, I want everything. And what unique experience, exactly. I just got too excited and so that is a mistake. I will never make again. And to be honest, not having a big budget anymore, is a Actually it's it's really nice because there's so many options that are not an option anymore. Yeah. So you need to do with what's that hands? Are you limited?

Exactly. And taking decisions goes way faster because it's like okay that looks lovely but we're not going to be able to do it. Yeah, so we first need to do this instant that. So actually even though that I'll also money and of course you know it's not good for your mental health. Yeah, if you worked for add something for eight months, and nothing happens. You're like yeah, but then Again, this is also a good position to be at. I love that, I love that

perspective, right? I mean those you can call a failure but a failure is a big word, right? It's a learning and I think a lot of people face that a lot of people when they initially start building a tech product and they don't have any background in building a tech product in the first place, right? They're going to work with the budget they have and it can be big or it can be small but they're going to make those decisions based on their gut feeling. At that point in time.

You never gonna know if that if it's the right direction, right? If it Was a different digital agency, maybe they would have delivered that marketplace, right? You have no clue but those are the decisions. And those then also is the kind of experience in the perspective that you've gained but I like that you're now playing around with more established technology, right?

Starting small instead of completely custom, you can still go custom down the road but initially we have to kind of prove those assumptions that you have that this is a Marketplace and that there is a kind of product Market fit there and even though that I did a very thorough research, Search, especially with the the sellers. What do you need? How can, what do I need to do different for you to leave Etsy? Yeah, and come solid. My, my markets.

That's a great question. Of course, but they had a lot of ideas. Yeah. And most of it was actually already within the existing technology were using now so we didn't even offer the minimum of the minimum viable product. Yeah. We offered so much more turns outs 90 to 10 stuff, they're not using okay. So what I learned is that you can do a lot of research and you can build everything everybody wants. Yeah. But it doesn't like most people don't even know what they want.

Yeah, it's hard. It's an and I probably am guilty of that myself as well, me too, but I was so surprised. I did so much research. I did so many interviews. Yeah. And I build everything. And then we went life. Finally, in Psalm there, and I were so happy and then Happens. Yeah, it's a quite but this is what you wanted, right? What did I do wrong? When it said, people don't know what they want. So start small, add some at one feature. Are you going to use it or not? No.

Okay. On to the next. Yeah. So yeah, that's also a mistake. I will make it. It's a, it's a learning and I love that you're sharing these because when I'm going to start my company because I think I still think I will, there will be a lot of like, learnings I'm going to have to go through. And I think the more people shared their own perspectives and their own experience, it's going to help others kind of

pave their own path, right? And you're never gonna not make any mistakes that is 100% never going to happen. You're always going to make mistakes but the way you pick back up and you continue I think that that shows your kind of strength of character in that way as well.

Yeah, sometimes you just need to cry on the shower and sometimes you just need to go for a beer and yell during a football game and and other times you just just need to pick up and get back to Yeah, I love hearing that when it comes to kind of

the whole build-up. So you had the initial eight months with the digital agency and then another like three or four months when it came to the, the protocol Shopify. What was your role in there? Because I'm assuming, if you are a sole founder, you have to do a lot of everything, right? Talk to the sellers, figure out the product figure out what they want and how this is going to make sense. And how many people are, how many sellers you need in the

first place before? You can go live like a lot of those thoughts. Probably go through your head. Like, were you Kind of the sole person like, in charge of kind of everything, did you build up a team? How did you handle that? Yes. Her some their joints confetti after eight months.

So and when I didn't have a Marketplace anymore and I had to build a new Marketplace. Yeah but before that I only I was working together with a blogger because you need contents SEO strategies just important and it's hard so I can do that alone because I'm not the best writer and but apart from that I was doing everything from policies to to branding to social media to creating videos because turns out video presence is very important but people also want to see a face.

That was one of the things that I was really worried about because I don't mind talking about sex or sex toys. I'm a sex positive person but putting yourself out there, you know, online saying, hey, alright. And these are a lot of dildos. I'm the brands. And it can also lead to some, you know. Yeah annoying stuff or challenges or usually men sending you a lot of oh yeah unwanted or unsolicited messages so that was a big step for me. Am I going to do it or not?

How am I going to do it? Social media has been a bitch

because you just get kicked off of every platform. Yeah and for instance with YouTube I got labeled as a naked scammer. Okay. Yeah. You were naked. Yeah. The scammer butt. Naked part was definitely not true. No, but that is so weird because you're fighting these Tech Giants. Yeah, but you're actually just you want to tell people about how to safely use sex toys without making it raunchy or porn. Yeah, but then still you get kicked off. So that is an issue with YouTube.

It's an issue with Tick-Tock, it's an issue with Instagram less. S with Twitter because they still accept porn paragraph. Very up were no real court on there. We should see what happens. You know, when you'll Muska continues to be the ball so about Twitter. But so that was that is always been a big challenge but also writing the policies. I mean what are you going to allow in your website? And what this ethical and what is not? Yeah, and we also sell or sellers on the platform also

say, Erotic art. But when is it still arts? And when is it not exactly. And I love think about that kind of stuff. Yeah, a lot of I mean I can I can assume that for the bigger tech companies, right? It's easier for them to see a black and white, if it's something even close to kind of sex and pornography and kind of those Industries, then it's better if we ban it and it's

better if we don't allow him. But if you're trying to educate people and be like, listen, first of all is unregulated. So, whatever you might buy is unsafe for you. How else are they going to get? That information that is trustful, right? These are kind of the sources that people go to social media is help people gain a lot of

knowledge. And if that educational part is missing, then you people never going to know, like that's a huge shame that through that and through that kind of black-and-white thinking, you don't get a voice and you don't get that education across either. Yeah, exactly. But then again, there are so many companies and initiatives all over the world and especially run by women. I really want to do something

about this. So Just going to I went to Berlin Berlin, this October, which was interesting because I've never been before, but there was also a sex Tech conference and you just meet Kindred Spirits who are all facing the same challenges which was really nice. Yeah but apart from that, going back to your question, I started

out with a pilot group of ten Sellers from all over Europe. So that was one of the goals I had when I I wanted to call life before we went live and I also researched sex, toy collectors worldwide. That's the thing. Yeah. Okay, thanks. There are people who have cabinets full in their house. Yeah, with sex toys, interesting and fantasy sex toys.

So I found out that there are so many kings, we don't even know about it. Can imagine like, X Ophelia, so wanting to be romantic with extraterrestrial beings. Yeah. And what I also found out during the research with the sex toy collectors, is that the lgbtq community is really rising and is really important within the

sex toy industry. Yeah. Because they are not having all the phallic and all the old-school dildos anymore, they require different toys that are just differently designed and more creative. So, that is something that I found out as well. But yeah, I was I was everywhere. That's really cool. Yeah, I would imagine that would be the case but probably like the energy in the motivation is that you're building towards like a vision that you have,

right. And you're tailoring towards people that have never actually been tailored to like even the lgbtq community. Plus this will be closed in there as well. Yeah, that's a community that's more up and coming and has a stronger voice now, but it's never been tested to extend this industry and other Industries. That's the voice that they have. And it's a That it's not happening but it will never happen if people like you don't stand up and do something about it.

So I think that's really admirable. I think it's really cool. Yeah. And I get to look at a lot of nice images all day every day. So at least, you know. Yeah. Even though you know, it's still a job. I still need to Crunch the numbers. I still need to do the needy and greedy which is it's just a business but then again there's always something fun to watch him my screens. So I can imagine I mean, you

mentioned, one of the challenges being like, Marketing presence, I guess on socials. But that is where people like, a lot of people will find you, right? Have you done anything else to allow people to find you? That is not on socials because it is such a hassle to go on there. Yeah, so I was a bit naive and when the marketplace won't lie for the second version? Yeah, with thinking okay I build something it is working Supply and demands can come together and you know, transaction as

possible. Yeah. What Was necessary a lot. And then we need to find you. Exactly. And then I started reading more about how do you, how do you scale a company? Because I was so focused on getting a product on the market. Yeah, but then, you know, then the real work begins. So what really struck struck me, was the sentence you need to do stuff that doesn't scale before you can scale and that is something that I've been thinking about a lot.

So what is it? Do I need to do Do sex toy parties but then in the you know, the the Tupperware parties within with sex toys. Yeah, to try to educate people but also entertain a little bit, right? Because it needs to be fun. So maybe that's one thing I need to do. Yeah, one thing that I brought home from Berlin is the idea of creating a little handmade Market because people want to support small businesses, and what we actually found out over the last couple of months, is

that Even though body safety. If people hear about it, they think. Wow. I didn't know that that's important. Yeah. Are they really going to buy it? Yeah, not so much. That's how important. Yeah. Maybe we should focus a little bit more on the handmade Parts on these are small companies that you're supporting. This is a unique product ID. You can customize. Yeah. Isn't that more fun? Oh, and by the way it's body safe. So you don't have to worry about anything. Yeah, so maybe that's the

approach we need to go with. So I'm trying to to do more stuff like this pulled calls but also go offline and really talk to our different audiences to find out what they want and what they need. And the only thing they've they well the main thing they told me so far is that we want more products, we went to see everything that's there. So yeah, that's crazy. I love the phrase before you can

scale. You have to do stuff that doesn't scale. Yeah, I mean Airbnb. I think they sold cereal boxes. Yeah. For a while, the thing. Yeah. Okay. I wouldn't imagine that. Yeah, that's yeah, but but learning about their story was like, okay, so I can just do stuff. That might be not might not be very relevant or might cost me a little bit over my budget. Yeah.

But sometimes you just need to snap out of it as well because it's just me and some they're behind a laptop or, you know, trying to convince people, please come to our website. But it's that story really Taught me that sometimes you can just take a step back to something really different and probably it's going to eat. You're going to end up with a new idea. Yeah. Well with with new with a new vision or something.

So yeah. I like going to like conferences within the same Niche and listening to other people are doing right now exactly in there lies a lot of inspiration. I feel like yeah and also if you look at Berlin there are so many

sex positive events and I was I was stunned by how many people on Monday night would go to an event Colts smut slam, which were sponsoring now by the way and it's an it's an event where you can tell dirty stories. Okay. And I was like who's going to go there on a Monday to tell a dirty story? Well, I mean, of course and it was so funny because at first I was like, everybody here is probably really rehearsed their story and he's really good at it. Yeah.

And then I watched the first person get up on stage and I was like Yeah yeah I can do this so I added my name to the bucket lady. No way thinking. They're not going to pick me right? Yeah yeah. Of course within a minute it was like Emily. Please get on stage. There we go. Yeah. But I won which was nice and then ended up sponsoring the event because they do it worldwide.

But just to see that there is a need for sex positive events and it doesn't have to be about the education part per se, but just about having a safe space to talk about this kind. These things. Yeah so that might be an opportunity as well to go offline and organize more about sex positivity. Yeah. I think that's really cool. I mean figuring out what works, what doesn't work? What's your strongest USB? What do people like really grab attention to?

Yeah, plus all the other benefits that you have, right, as a Marketplace or kind of the values that you have in there. I think that's very important, kind of figuring out things now that you've been live. Like, is that like the strongest Focus point that you have now? Now, or is it still like finding more Sellers and kind of growing the product Suite that you have? Well, my focus is so I like sales, I like going after after companies and getting them on boards.

Yeah. But I'm very happy that Soldier has agreed to become my co-founder now because he does the website, he does to take Parts you nosy Commerce. So I can focus on sales, attracting more sellers, but also it gives me the opportunity to experiment more with What are we going to do with this? What are we going to do with this? How did you find something?

Because we've named them as your co-founder. But that means, I mean, I think when you started, he wasn't in the picture. You mentioned. He's only been in the picture for like three or four months. Yeah, was he threw out your own network? Or how did you guys meet? Yeah, it via my network. So there was a I used to have an office in little turd. Mm. Yeah. Me cry a lot and I talked to a girl there and she said you need to talk to a friend of mine because you're stuck, you you

need to build a new website. You've run out of budgets, what are you going to do? And I was like, I don't know, call him and he he gave Saunders num number. To me saying he can help you build something really fast and I was like this is it this is it I'm not even going to you know look for it there, this is it and we just hit it off. I don't know. It's just easy to work with him and finding a co-founder was Yeah, what should I say about

this? So I put up a, an ad for an ads online on LinkedIn saying I'm searching for a co-founder of be aware, you know, it's in the sex tech domain. Yeah. Is it rebuilding the marketplace just be aware that it is about sex toys, but it's still a tech company and there were only men. Yeah, it's like more than hundred, guys. Mainly from India and Pakistan. Who reacted to, you know, my job at. Yeah, it's home. How the hell am I going to find

a co-founder? You know, because this is not it. Yeah. And then somebody told me just go where the energy is, yeah, who do you like to work with? And I was so focused on. Okay, somebody needs to be very senior and has done everything already. It doesn't matter who do you like working together with and it was, it was a no-brainer. It was like, yes, on there. Okay. Yeah, because you also wanted someone that would be like physically and Holland like working closely with you or was

it kind of I prefer that? Yeah, because I'd like to look each other in the eye and have meetings from time to time face to face. It wasn't a requirement but it makes and I think, you know, talking in English I'm used to doing business in English but still there's a lot in language, a lot of nuances and you are starting a company together and he is, you know, going to get equity in whatever. So it is important that you really understand each other.

So I prefer somebody to be at least in the same country as I am. Yeah, yeah. I mean everyone has their preferences, right? But when you're starting something from scratch, I think it's important also to build up that relationship and that is just easier to You when you can be in a physical space with each other. Exactly. Exactly. But no one besides that, it was also important to after so many months of working at this alone actually, as a solo female founder.

It was just important to get somebody on board because actually also with investor meetings, people have literally said to me, you need to have a guy, you know sitting next to you at the table. Why? Yeah. So I asked him What does this guy need to do? You know, this is what job does he need to have within confetti. And they told me, it doesn't really matter as long as you have a guy sitting next to you, okay? Okay. But now I have a guy sitting next to me, you know, problem

things. So check that box. Exactly. So I can get really mad about At this, this is still a reality that this still happens. Yeah, but I mean come on I also want to play the game, you know. So now I have some there. Yeah, it's sad that it's a thing and you can get a really angry about it and try and change that industry. But that would be a full-time job then I feel like and besides that, do they need me or do I need them? Exactly.

Yeah, that's good. Have you had another like tryout it then because I'm assuming you went at it alone initially as a soul. Female founder and you got that as feedback. Have you tried like a second round with sonar next? You not yet, because we're first doing some goal setting for 2023. Yeah. Trying to see what we can do ourselves and really get some more interesting Data before we, you know, sit at that table again and talk about Investors.

Because I don't think it's necessary at this moment because, because we are using existing technology costs are actually pretty low. Yeah. And there's so much You can do yourself and because we can divide the work now, it's not, you know? Yeah, I think we can, we can we can make something of it ourselves before we start talking about giving away more Equity. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, you've had so many learnings throughout kind of your journey.

It's kind of, its really impressive first and foremost, but I'm really thankful that you're also sharing that because the way you go about it, right? Some people can really just dwell into that and be like no, no, no, that that never happened. Like, I didn't feel there, but I think Like, again, a strength of character when you can say, okay, these things happen and I learned from it, right?

And yes, they did like bring me down, probably but again, how you pick it up and move forward is very important and now you've learned that, okay, I'm going to first do these things. I'm going to gain more data before we actually have another go at it and actually right now we're kind of good so we don't need to have a go at it. I think that's really cool.

Yeah. Yeah. And also I mean, if you look at what's happening in the market, if you look at what's happening at Etsy or probably heading for Recession. More people are going to want to do or have a side hustle. Yep. Creating sex toys is a side hustle. So, I mean it's going to be very interesting times and I'm still sitting at home with the heater on. I still have food. I mean, I'm not so good at, yeah, I can imagine, it's a bit less than when I used to work

for Oracle, but that's okay. Well, Matt is that you happy, right? And happy year. I'm happier. Yeah. Exactly how much did the dynamic change now that you have some

the next two years, kind of a co-founder because initially, it was you, you're the founder all the decision making but also all the responsibility all the accountability right which is which is fine because it's you but now that you have some there and I don't know if you're going to Branch out and kind of create a team around YouTube that's going to differ. I think it Dynamic. Yeah, so the thing is I'm used to taking decisions myself and I like to take decisions really

fast. But if you want to grow your company, you really cannot do it alone. So I never envisioned myself working at this for years by myself and doing everything alone. So we are also talking about a possible rebranding because I think it is important for solar to also feel that the company is his. Yeah. So if we do a rebranding together, which, of course, naming the company was, I Gone for that name.

I tested it, everybody liked it but nobody's really able to to remember it, you know, or how to type it. So of course it's not working so we need to change it. Anyways. I'm not saying we're going to do it within a couple of weeks or within a couple of months or whatever but we're talking about it. So I think that I told him if we do a rebounding, I would love for you to be a part of it because it will be more your company as well will feel more like your company.

Yeah, and I think if you're good friends, You can you can also do business with each other and just be honest with each other, but there are some behaviors. I think I need to unlearn but we'll see how it goes. You know, we just started this this adventure together. Yeah. And I don't want to do it alone and I trust him. And we'll see what happens. Yeah, I think that's really cool. Is it some I'm saying this in

the kind of the perspective of the podcast because this is going to be a episode. Only 86, something like that. And I've also had chats with people that say okay you're doing a lot of work and the work would be less if you find like a co-host or people that can help you with this. But I'm like, okay I've built this from the ground up like finding a co-host like this late in the game. I don't know if it's going to add value to the show and it

might reduce my workload. But yet, then it's no longer. Longer mind than it's from me and someone else because they're gonna be the co-host. Yeah, it's kind of comparable to finding a co-founder like, did you struggle with giving that part of the company away or was going to remind say in there? What is it company? Yeah, if think for you this, this is more of a creative Outlets that has really your stamp on it in your personality, for me.

Confetti is a Marketplace that has his own text number. Yeah, and that's that's what it is. Sometimes you need to take the emotion out of it. And if somebody tells me, yeah, I hate the colors that you use on the website. Well, what would you prefer? Yeah, I don't care as long as we make money. Yeah, you know, and as long as the sellers that are on the platform or happy as long as people are buying and they come

back and buy more. Yeah, and in the end, I hope to make an impact on this industry and does it matter? How much Equity I have in my company. I hope it's going to be you know, enough to To make a living. But does it really matter? You know, it doesn't. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, that's amazing. One of the thoughts I still had is going to a final thought is whenever I Envision someone

starting a company, right? Being very close to your customers and you can have to because you have the selling side in the Next Room, right side is most important, right? Figuring out what they actually need. Not what they're telling you they need because they're going to tell you a whole slew but what they actually need and implementing that in accommodating for that is probably one of your Biggest factors in kind of success in there. How do you, or how you gain that

feedback in the first place? And then how do you pick out kind of what to implement and how to accommodate for that? Well, there are two sides to this because it's a two-sided Market Place. Of course, we have the sellers that create the listings and have their own companies and sell the items on the website and then we have the end users. So there are two different different groups to to reconsider. Yeah. For the sellers. So what was the question again?

Can we go back? How do you get the feedback of what they actually want, like, feature wise or accommodation wise? Like why they do? They want your platform? How do you listen to them? Getting that feedback? Yeah. So then how do you decide what to implement every time I start doing business with somebody, I tell them. I'm Dutch. Hmm, But I'm really touch. What does that mean? You can tell me anything.

I can always give your opinion and it doesn't matter what you say to me if you hate it. It tell me you hate it. Yeah. But tell me what you want the honest that be honest. No, but really be honest to me. I can handle it. You know, I'm not going to cry. Tell me everything and I'd use you can lead to a lot of emails of people complaining about a lot of stuff, which is fine, you know? Because again, it's not personal. Yeah, that means they care.

Yeah. So tell me, tell me whatever you like, or why are you not onboarding? What is it? What is what is holding you back? Or is it something that we can do? And what I notice is that So, as long as you keep talking to your customers and have it, I hope that people like the fact that they can be really honest with me. Yeah, yeah. I would like that. Yeah. I mean, I also do. Yeah.

So, that's what I do with the, with the sellers, and there are always Early users that are very involved and what I noticed is that a lot of the sellers that create the sex toys are also in it. Yeah. So sometimes they even know more about the stuff that we're building and we do or that I do. So it's like, okay, yes. I can only listen to you and I want to hear everything that you

have to say. And it's about not only giving them the feeling, but also showing them that At what they say in the feedback they give us. We really do something with it. Yeah. And that is something that I get really positive feedback about because they just say if we call at see if we call Amazon know it he's picking up the phone. Yeah, and at least I'm trying exact. I'm still fucking up, but it's

right. She's picking up the phone and she's so young to us and we know her and she's trying and sometimes, you know, it's, it's not working or features not working but we know she's trying it. Exactly so that works. And with the With the end users is actually really easy. I just go on Twitter, talk to people and and call with them for hours.

Sometimes people tell you everything because if they are passionate about something or it's their hobby, or they collect something and you love to talk to stuff that you're passionate about, right? Yeah, yeah. So just get on the call. Ask people, do you want to tell me more about, you know, collecting sex toys and they do and you talked for two hours and you understand more about About what's going on. Yeah, that's incredible.

I would have expected some kind of complicated thing with, like, surveys and like data. And, but it, it doesn't have to be complex right? Listening to these people. It's their passion from the consumer side and sellers, just want to make a living. And I have to have a reason why they want to on board, right? And if there's any issues that are going to voice their opinion, because you, you've allowed that safe space and that Honesty in there.

I think that's really cool. Yeah, you've kind of simplified it for now. I think also the scale of things allows you to do so Exactly. I still have the time to Paul everybody's like you, like I'll get on a video call right now and of course, you know sometimes I'll pretend I'm very busy and you know, make time for you but so yeah, sometimes I just have time but that's okay. But no. And also with talking to the end users made me realize that sex

is not a niche. Yeah. And sex toys are not a taboo so we should stop calling it. Exactly. Because it's not.

Yeah. Is that kind of a final Vision than For the company like what is the end goal of the company? Is it to make it a educate? People more to allow for that safe space online somewhere be the marketplace for that. Become the biggest sex-positive Marketplace in the world. Yeah, that's it. And to be honest, you know, it's starting out now as a Marketplace, a two-sided Market Place, who knows what's going to happen within five years, you

know? It depends on what the people want and what we can build and how fast we can go. But we'll see what happens. And so, you know, maybe I'll maybe we need to incorporate more video on the website because if YouTube keeps kicking us up out, what are you going to do? You know, video content is still very important. So as we strong, I don't know what happens. Well, we'll see within two years. Yeah, I mean, you've already showed that due to the whole covid experience, you can pivot,

right? You started with an idea and then you would like all share, go it happen. You could have, let that brought you down, but you figured out how to Pivot and have this. Thing now and it can evolve them five years down the line as well. Yeah. Which you've shown also, I think

that's pretty cool cool. I've Loved learning about kind of your history and how you got to this point, all the learnings and all the experiences along the way, is there anything you still want to share with our audience before we leave off visit confetti dot EU. If you want to see stuff, you have never seen before. And I promise you, you've never seen it before. That's awesome. I'm going to put all Emily's links in socials in the description below and believe you.

Ah, that's confetti is going to be there as well. Check that out. If you're interested, let us know what you thought of this episode and we'll see you on the next one. Thank you for listening.