Personal Development, Goals and Career with Milan Milanović

Hi everyone. My name is Patrick Aquila and if you're interested in personal development goal setting as well as mentorship and coaching this episode is for you. Joining me today is MM on which is a CTO architect content writer and a lifelong learner. I'll put all his socials in the description below, check him out. And with that being said, enjoy the episode. Since we met, I've been seeing your LinkedIn post pop up here

and there and you mentioned, you had a book collection of like 5K books. Yes, I like to read very much and I learn stuff, maybe people ask me why and the the answer is very simple. If you want to learn something, there are few You of possibilities to learn something. Of course you can learn by doing. You can learn by reading, you can learn by teaching and there's some other ways.

But if you want to learn from someone who is, let's say, very good at something, there are only two possibilities. One possibility is to work directly with that person and of course, it is very, very hard to work with some guys who are very famous and golden, it will put in their job and it The other possibility is to read their books.

Yeah. Because they ever write the book report the books when they had a lot of knowledge and probably they had some kind of coal to write this book and to let you publish it for all of us to read. So I find it very, very valuable and I spend every day. Let's see a few hours, depending on the day of course to read stuff. Of course, I don't read only Books. I read some other stuff and let's see the this whole thing with my writing actually started with that because I like to read.

Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. But reading that it's it's weird right? Because I agree with what you say the only way for you to kind of gain their knowledge, or what is in their head, is the read, whatever they wrote down or like in a different form of content. If they were to create a podcast or YouTube video, that will be another medium. But for most people professionals. Books are like the the medium to go to for them to write down and to pass on to others.

Have you also noticed that like a lot of the theoretical knowledge, you gained through Reading? How do you apply that? Then, in practice, because I also met a lot of people that know, a lot from Theory, but when it comes to practice, it's a bit harder to put into practice that theory. Yes, yes, correct. Well, there are two things. I would say there are two levels of reading which I like, which I do the First one, is this kind of a general reading. I like, okay, now, I like to

read about chat. Gbt what is job GPD? I just want to be informed and know, and then I read articles about this, maybe, maybe I go some kind of a deeper insights about it. And that's, that's one level. And the other level is something, which I call intentional learning. So what is this exactly? For example, when I work on I think and I work on some kind of a project and I know I will need this knowledge in next one, two or three months then I do and take some kind of a book

articles and read about this. And when I read this I immediately go and apply this because this is the the best way to let's say team knowledge. This is this is one level of are using that knowledge. The other level is not taking which I'm also developed in In some would say, nice way that you can store your knowledge in a proper way so that you have this knowledge. Very, very much art Isabel in anytime later. Of course, because, you know, knowledge disappear, after some time.

And you need to have a proper way to find that knowledge very fast for example, later in few months or few years. And there is a very, of course, how you can build such Kind of fun, your personal knowledge base or notes, where you can store that knowledge for later. Usage.

Nice, I like that a lot. I've read about that online and people call it like a second brain because your first pain is really good at interpreting and writing it down, but not as much at retaining which then written form is the is the best way to do so, how, or what works for you when you're organizing your

notes? Is that like, on a book basis or what your system, it corrected. The there is a verb Building which say, mind is for having ideas. Not for storing them. Yeah, you should store ideas. You know, in notes. Yes, actually I had, I've had a few iterations, their own Building Material, such kind of phonology. I started with simple notes, Notes application and then I during the years, I build

something, which is something. As you mentioned, some kind of a second brain where I have proper Latino devil. I build my Us knowledge in some kind of a clusters of knowledge which are interconnected and where I can like some kind of isolated like some kind of a bow that I can easily rotate that ball and access and find what I want in all of these different topics. For example, in software engineering and other topics and Fields.

Also interesting. I think I might have you written down like an article about that because it's very hard for me to visualize, like what that would look like. What I'm thinking right tomorrow about my personal organization where I mentioned also not taking task list. Also I mentioned Commander how I do it, do it files and other but I did not go in that a link to an article in much details there, but I will probably maybe even write a newsletter issue.

Shirley on that topic how how to retain your knowledge and that you can access very, very fast in the future. Nice, nice. I'd love to read that. Now I know you're big on personal growth but I'm

wondering, like personal growth is so much personalized for a lot of people. I wonder how you kind of build your environment around you, in a way that you can focus on personal growth and how you've optimized for like efficiency and Effectiveness as well. Is it has it to do with like go Hang out your network or setting personal goals or what works for you? Yes. Yes. Actually, it started long time ago when I started the video with studies.

Because as I always say, most of the people, I didn't know what to pursue, what career to pursue and what to wear to go. Of course, I had some things in mind, but it was just not not clear to me whether I wanted to go, you know, and after many many Years. And let's say, I speaking with some people who I admired let's say regarding their career or personality and what they achieved and of course, after some some courses, I went like, NLP and some others.

I I find found some answers. Let's see. How you shoot, a go and Define your, let's say your call. I would say this, your call not only career career is one. Point in your call or let's say your path on your life. But yeah. And this this usually starts first by the need to understand ourselves. This is the key thing, which I that I saw people acts, they don't really know what they want.

They know that they want something or maybe this someone told them, okay, going this field, this field. It is good to be there. Or because of that and this, but they are, they still feel that maybe this is not for them or maybe they are in on the wrong path. And usually, this is true when you have this internal feeling that you are not on the good part.

That's probably, you know, and This is one layer of that and the key is, let's say to find this because this must be deeply rooted in your personal, beliefs, your values. Yeah. And your person Travis because if it is not rooted in your personal values you will just not get there or not, get there in a proper way like it should be, you know. And let's see if this is the first first step you need to find. Out how how to find your your real call.

And there is a good concept, a Japanese concept called ikigai,

which I like very much, which state says that you should do something, you are good at, you are to do that world's needs and you will be paid for. Yeah. So this is some kind of fine perception of these four things and I like this very much but we can also Simplify this distinct. By when people come to me to my tape session mentoring sessions and then we try to figure this out, I just asked them, what drives you, what energizes you when you feel good after, which

kind of activity. If if you are feeling good after some kind of activity, this is this is your call probably interesting. I like that a lot. I mean it. He guy. I know a little bit of Japanese, I think it's like the way of living something like that. That's how it translates. Yeah. But that's like for me especially early on, that was one of the hardest things to do figuring out what I actually wanted to do.

Because also I thought that it would be a decision and then I would do that for the rest of my like adult life I guess. And I'm really happy that now that I've had a little bit more work experience under my belt, that that is not the case, right? You can make a decision now and you can pivot later towards new learnings, and Words, A New Path

based on what you now, enjoy. Because if you were to ask me years back, two years ago, I would have said, all I want to grow into a product owner and a scrum Master role. And if you were asking now, I'm thinking more engineering manager, or developer Advocate, because my perspective has changed completely based on the experience that I've had but still early on, I tried a lot of things. I tried whatever I could do as much experience as possible

because I am not like you. I don't read a lot, so For me, the experience was for me, the most valuable. I learned a lot through experiencing and I also tried to be in an environment where I could experience the most because then I could say okay I'd like these things and I don't like these things. So then I gravitate towards what I like and stay away from what I don't like basically. Yes, yes I understand. And this is normal that there

are two schools. There there is one school which say, okay you should not change your mind like, you know, it is best to adapt to Your mind but the other school. Say, yes, you can and you should change your mind and this, this is completely fine. Because you have you gained new insights, as you said here, you will learn this thing, you'll indistinct, but these things can change, but the values are something which are inside you all your life and they don't

change. So this all of these things can be different but they must still be anchored in your values. So, every path you take Should be anchored in those values. If it is not you will not feel good by doing this.

Yeah, I can imagine I mean for me personal development has a lot to do with. Also the environment you're in right? Because you can be an environment where it's completely like people advocate for personal development. They give you time and space to do so even resources in money and trainings and then you can just flourish and try out a lot of things, but also not every

environment is the same. There are some environments where you're kind of feeling stock were The hierarchy is a bit bigger than other organizations and it's harder to move upwards or even lateral or horizontal and you have the feeling of being stuck, right? And with that feeling in mind, it's then very hard to focus also on personal development with your experience and kind of your your past history.

How have you kind of cultivated this environment around you that allows you to focus on personal development? Yes. This is the good thing you said, because this is something. That people should ask Convent when they are only introduced, you know, how how this company is help you grow in that position? Do they have some kind of education budget to do? They actually invest in you or not? Because if not, maybe this is not the company you want to work

for ya, and the I also had luck. Maybe 22 works for such companies that had such kind of fun culture. Enable you to have a to rotate push you to have a growth mindset to constantly, push you forward, and not hit it backward, or to be on the place. And also, what is here is

important is that when you find your call, you also need to have goals. I also saw many times people that don't have goals. No, and this is this is real Be a problem because when you don't have a goal, you will probably get nowhere. You know, it's like driving a car and your destination is unknown. So you, you must have some kind of a goals and when I say Goals, I also saw some some goals, which are not not, or has he not

real or not, not realistic. Okay, for Sample of people say, okay I will do something in May or I will do something this year and this will probably not happen because when you win you define goal, you need to Define them in the way that they could be achieved and one of possibilities to Define such goals are those smart goals when you need to have your goal is smart, what? This means it is it means that it is specific measurable, achievable, realistic and

time-bound. So for example, when I see I will write the book on some topics this year, this is easy, just go, which probably will not be fulfilled. But if I say, okay, I need the to write a book because I want this to do very much and I will write this book until Uh, September by writing two thousand. Let's see if words every week. Yeah. And then this is smart goal. I know that I can focus today on something that will help me to achieve my goal until September,

for example. Yeah, and this is much more realistic and will be possible to achieve. Yeah, you've made it immediately actionable because if you say, I want to write this book by then and then you can already in your head. Work back because of the date, what you need to do, and if that's realistic or not and otherwise adjust your Milestone, I guess in your goal in that way, and then work towards it incrementally, right? Because especially a book is not going to happen overnight, you

need continuous process. You need to review what you've written, and you need to be happy at some point with what you've written and move on to the next stop. And I think yeah, you need something of a structured way to do that. For me, though, especially early

on, I didn't write down my goals. I always At them in my head and because I was very much focused on like growing as fast as possible. They were also short-term goals, usually. And I didn't ask myself where I would see myself in five years because for me, five years was a really really long time. So I couldn't even imagine what I was going to do in five years. So they were always short term goals. I didn't necessarily write them down which also meant.

Sometimes I was working on multiple goals at the same time and then focusing is a bit hard but that's where I started off. And then actually I experimented with this last year, where I said at the beginning of the year, I had so much work on my plate that I had to say no to a bunch of things.

And I went back and I said, okay, these are the things I'm going to focus on for the year but I want to do a full year of podcast episodes which means 52, which means that every week we're going to release something new. I said, I want to do, I want to give three trainings in a programming language. I feel good at just to get some training experience under my belt. I had never done that and I said, I want to mentor and Coach to people on a bi-weekly basis. Those are my goals.

I thought, let me not start off with too many of them. I'm going to start with these in mind and I'm going to try and figure out if this works for me. And I did two out of three. Like the coaching and mentoring, it didn't happen. I didn't push hard enough for that. I had too much on my plate. Still with the things. I have written down and and day-to-day work, but I was really happy with that. At the end of the year, I could say, okay, this is what I wrote down.

This is what I did, but then I was like, okay, what about next year? And now I have goals in my mind, but for some reason, I have Haven't written them down. I thought more of the same or different things and there's so many options. I think it's really hard to pick

also. And with that in mind, I think it's really important to have a conversation with someone that has kind of your best interest at heart and that can kind of guide you through this path of setting goals and achieving them is that someone you also have in your personal Network. Like, do you have coaches or mentors that you talk to on a regular basis? Yes, yes, I have both but but

first to say that the thing you mentioned about this is some kind of a question, you get at, you know, interviews where you going to be a in five years, a lot of people say this but actually it's a very good question because this question can be offered only by most successful people because who knows exact. Let's see, point in in the future they want to go. This is, this is very, very

strong thing. Yeah. Because you then can focus all of your efforts and plans and goals toward this, this one effort, but it doesn't need to be a concrete. Let's say think like I want to achieve this but it should be some kind of a outcome. I want to be, for example, at the best Tech podcast in the world. Yeah. In five years or the the podcast with the The most followers or

subscribers or whatever. Sure, and if this is your goal in five years, then you can go back and create your booty yearly goals, and all other things that will support you on that path. And, yes, when you mash and this, of course, I had, let's say, I had mentors and coaches

to maybe people don't really understand the difference between these To because it is different Mentor. In the coach is not the same thing, how I had a multiple mentors and coaches in my life, some internal like in my company and some external ones. And when I can, I go to search for mentors, is when I find the skill that I lack and I needed. Let's say, helpful from someone to help me grow in that skill. And this was the, let's see, the first case when I need it.

Let's see. Mental and/or, the coach and or the second the second. Let's see. Time I want to do is when I saw someone who was a my role model, like this guy was a three to five years in front of me. And I want to be like that guy and then I approached him and asked, can you be? I said, let's see, my mentor. I want to go through your pot, do. Went to and that's it. Those are two tools it topics when I search for mentors or coaches, interesting.

And what was your process with them when they said, yes? Or if they said, yes. Did you have like a weekly conversation bi-weekly monthly, like, what is the Rhythm and then also, what did you discuss in those? Yes, I mean it all start first with the initial contact.

Yeah. You know, because some people maybe wants to help you but they don't have Time especially you know, you usually select someone who is very, very good or so very successful and they don't have time for that and then you need to figure out how they will work together. Yeah. And of course, it all starts with this question. You know, you made the initial call and when you have a green light, of course, for from the person and you define objectives.

So, what is our objective on this mental coaching? And how Long. It will take us to get there and what will be its success of this mechanic. Yeah, and when we defined those things, then we can go, let's say to mentoring process, very defined. Our reality meeting Cadence or all or any other structure. How we will structure that lets say mentoring or coaching sessions in the future? Yeah, interesting. I think it's, I I love that you went to your role models, right?

Because I think it's very hard. When someone says, what do you want to do or what do you want to be? But if you look at someone and their experience and maybe their their past history and you're like why? I don't know exactly but I would like to do what this guy has achieved, then they can kind of help you towards that path, right? In setting goals and seeing what's achievable and what they've experienced.

They can their share with you for your own perspective and you're not and you never going to be a carbon copy because everyone is different and has their own way. To have a role model in that way to guide you. I think that's that's very concrete and very valuable for your personal Learning Journey. How how many people do you have in kind of a coaching or Mentor role? Like, is always one. Person is a multiple people at the same time. What's your strategy currently

in my room? Yeah, yeah, I currently, currently, I do, let's see. I'm enjoying a manager. Also, for my team and I can have like 10 People and I said, Kevin from time to time some external people that I received through this kind of a mentoring or coaching session. Yeah. And are you then also a mentee

or like a person that gets coached by other people? Yes. Yes. Let's see in the last 10 or 15 years. I see constantly had some kind of a mentor or coach in my life because this is, this is very good. For example, if this guy is Is inside your company, he will probably become not only your Mentor but also your sponsor because this guy can also support you tomorrow. If you need some kind of support, you will. Let's say it's also one point part of networking networking.

Yeah with him and maybe with his contacts and he can also maybe push you in your career may be further away. Is that that you would do without him and so sometimes Times, I could not find its internal mental. So I asked the for external mentors, especially those ones who are non technical. Yeah, so I wanted to develop in

some non-technical soft skills. And then I go, and I searched for some external coaches who helped me to develop in some other skills, which are, let's say, which I could not find in technology. Yeah.

Why why specifically soft skills and like non-technical skills? Did you think that, like, with the goal setting in the structure that you The technical skills, you nailed and and therefore you saw maybe in the soft skills or why was that decision there? Yes. Well, I found for example, that, you know, when you are some kind of a senior or lead tech lead level you then start to work

more with people. Then we see technical stuff here with architecture coding and etc, etc. Work with stakeholders writing speaking, and all other stuff.

If and then you usually we from from residence technicals field whoo-hoo, like we're completely four years in coding and looked only at code, mostly we don't have, let's say good good skills for that kind of progress later to, let's say, principal are able to and after school to maybe some kind of other levels very want to be. So some kind of coaching is needed there. To help you how to deal with these issues, you didn't have the opportunity maybe to to do

in in your, in your career. Before that? Yeah, interesting, I didn't know that early on like I thought, technical problems were interesting. I thought they were the hardest component, but the more experience I had and the more kind of your sphere of influence, grows, you realize that actually some of the technical decisions are hard. Yes, but still most of it can be easier. The hardest part is usually dealing with people, convincing people talking to people, right?

Gaining that level of empathy to do this together. Collaborating, cooperating, teamwork. Like it's it's a lot having to do with people and I so didn't expect that going into this field. I thought I would more so code all day long, but if I'm really solving problems usually I'm talking to a lot of people and getting people aligned and then the coding part is like an afterthought because we're already aligned we just have to do it and then it gets done faster like it's such a

contrast. So yeah, I do realize that soft skills are needed there for sure. Yes. Especially from that this will lead or stuff level. Those skills are actually more important than technical skills. And if you like those skills, you already probably be stuck somewhere there and you could not progress because then you need to be, you know, the great the greatest architects are the best communicators. Yeah. Right. So they don't know how to communicate communicate.

They Communicate a lot. They know how to write how to speak. And this is what differ difference. Actually, those great ones from from the others. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, look into your past. You started out as a software engineer and I know you've had architect roles, engineering manager, roles and our CTO, as well. Like we're those all kind of goals you set out for yourself to reach out and to then deliberately work back. For example, if I want to be c 2 and 5 years deliberately work back, what needs to be done? Did you do it in that? Weigh gold with your goal specifically minor can you walk us through how you got those

roles in the first place? Yes. Actually let's say this as we talked about at the start of our meeting at those those my mind changed. It also meets, let's say I started my career in one company and went through from the Junior and Janet to effectively jangling. Yeah. And then again after this period of working people, the projects with lot of stuff, you know? No, I there is this drive inside of me, is that I like very much technical stuff I like to code.

I like to, I just like to technical technical in some, some kind of a bit. And when you go to this level of like, head of engineering of, or dare you, you actually detach yourself a lot, you know, from from those stuff. And there are some companies that allow you to be still technical, but there are some others that don't Don't follow you. This you don't have time. I mean that he would I love you but you don't have time.

And then after a few years of doing this, I my let's say my drive to still be in this field especially in the last 10 years. When all of these good ticks things happened. In this case, a field of Technology software engineering happened. I just wanted to be, you know,

Hands-On on some of those stuff. Ya know, just to be like a viewer of this stuff which are going besides me, so I then jumped again in that that train to to again code work with the, let's say he texture work with people on projects and I went through this pet until it's a now we're mc2. But I'm still very, very technically.

I still now. I managed to I managed to find time to still to do. I detect Too cold and do all of this stuff, which I really like to do, you know, but also to work with people and other relatives more strategic stuff, which these are all need to do interesting. I love that like its head of engineering is a different role, right? You're more of a people manager and you have people responsibilities and not Everyone likes that especially if you come from a technical

background. Like in bigger organizations, the best software engineer might be pushed to that position to because They're the best software engineer but it is a completely different role. Yes, you have your previous experience in, you take that with you but those people responsibilities like you need to either love it or hate it. And you can be somewhere in between and you can have some

responsibilities. But it doesn't necessarily mean that when you're a great software engineer, you're also going to be a great head of engineering, their different roles and you need to figure out if that is for you and when you have the opportunity to do so you can then learn if it is actually for you and if not you can pivot And grow and find that sweet spot that you're in now. So I think that's that's awesome. That you found it.

That's really cool. Yes. It's I mean I just like to be somehow attach it to to technical world, you know because if you are just Alexia Reading This newspapers and you're like in this it field it's a for me it's too much detached from the reality you know. And in this way I can still hands. Jean. But I can also use my experience and knowledge to influence and work on other ability levels of business.

As I said, from business to strategy working with people and all other stuff which are normal in, what? One kind of a company. Nice, nice.

Previously, you lay down that you like the question of like, where do you see yourself in five years? And I can see the way you explained that how it makes sense, right? If you set a really good golfer, Yourself or let's say an a goal which seems unachievable, you can still calculate and see what needs to be done and then readjust it. Do you have like a goal of five year goal plan with us or that you could share with us as well or what are your personal goals now? For example? Yes, yes.

Mike. I always have that plan for five years and I also have planned for 10 years. Wow, but I cannot share all of the plans because some plants are strongly attached with the company, okay, but I'm working now, and let's see. But my goals are very busy. Those midterm goals are very much aligned with this company that I am working out from last summer. And really, we are building the one great product and Let's say I'm very much bound to the success Realty of that product.

Yeah, and everything that will go with it in the, in the next few years, for example. Yeah, interesting.

I've also seen and I'm wondering what your thought is on this, that people write down goals and even in performance reviews than judge, those goals. But those goals are more based on output. Let's say, I can say, I want to be more visible in the community, or I want to build my network or I want to knowledge. Share. On the writing that I do that can be a goal, right? And you can. So I want to be the best writer in x amount of years. Or you can do that

quantitatively. You can say, I want to write three blog posts but in performance reviews if that's then used against you I think it's it's a bit of a weird kind of way to do it because I think performance reviews and even leadership should Inspire right. They shouldn't look at your outcomes and judge you based on that they should inspire you to be the best. You can be and then your output.

It flows through that. So, when I see some people really focus on output, for example, three blog posts, a year X amount of things a year and use that for a performance review. I think that's not a great way of doing it, I think more. So you should Inspire the people that you're with or the people that are in your team to do their best and then whatever outputs. Come, whatever output comes out of that. First of all, it's going to be their output.

So they're going to love it because they chose to do so. Now, instead of having some kind of abstract kind of kpi to do that, And it's going to be a better way of working. I feel like a more sustainable way. Have you seen that as well and kind of input and output when it comes to the kpis and goals? Yes, this is. Now with this, we are returning back to our, let's start of the story with this your mission and values. You have, you know, because you should always find this ikigai.

So, what is actually it's something you like to do, and maybe I can tell my story about this. LinkedIn. And how I went through this, where I am today, you see, I'm one of the tech influencers on

that network, but also on some other places, it was a lot of plan actually. Okay. It is something that I like to do. Yeah. And and, let's see, the only thing that's changed is that I started to do more of that. And that's it because I like to I, what I find out is the You mentioned also that people I found that people don't like to read and I like to read and then I saw, when I read, I tend to share some pretty good stuff with people.

And I did this for a long time in my inside, my company. Yeah. And then someone said to me once on the like, okay, I think it's good that you share this knowledge and share this stuff with us. Why don't you do this outside, you know, like on some networks on blog posts and then I Acted a little to do this bit by bit. And I find out the people that he much like this, you know, they were strong reactions. Lot of, you know, like sand and

the poor reports and everything. And, of course, during this time, I tried to be, let's see more to write more in the way that people like to read. You know, not just in a way how

I like to, to present yes. And This is a win-win situation for everyone because I like to write I like to share my knowledge, people like to read, I like to see digested things, you know from from maybe some some big books or big big articles or scientific papers and I think it's a win-win for everyone and still I'm enjoying this because I would Elevate do this. So if I don't exercise, if I stop tomorrow to share this thing, I would still read.

I would still take my notes. I still enjoy this stuff, you know, maybe share with my friends or with my people in my company. But this is the thing that I like to do, you know, and that we are again at the start of our story, just do what you like to do and you will be successful for sure, in that thing. Yeah, I like that a lot.

Like if you didn't like what you were doing, it was not going to be sustainable, right? You can do it. Maybe for a year, maybe longer like work, ethic and dedication wise, but at some point, you're going to be fed up, you're going to burn. Not you never going to want to do it again. The only reason you can do what you're doing is because you love what you're doing, like that, that is the only reason and I love that you. I love that you found your driving your passion in that,

right? And you can do more of and even do that on an external view because I mean, I know we've only be connected for like two or three weeks. I love your stuff on LinkedIn. It pops by, it's like gesture, like it's it's solid content and as you as you know, I don't love reading. So the fact that I'm reading those like, for me, it has value And they're from the thing is we

are in this, in this field of software, engineering, and other party attached Fields. It is, it is to dance. There is too much stuff happening. And there is a so much thing and people, you know, they work they don't have time to go and check and read articles books and but there are some really, really, you know, good stuff there and which are really gold and I like to take Distinct.

And there is it to digest it a bit and put it right into the front of people because as you said there is some kind of some books like 300 pages but the outer actually could write this also in 50 or 100 Pages because you don't get when you write a book you can get 250 pages and a people.

Also, I also wrote last week how to read books one article, you will I need to know how to read books properly, how to gain this knowledge in a proper way to go straight to the point, you know not to to lose your time, reading everything. And when you find this Gold T in the book, I mean there's only one next steps to share with people and people are really grateful for that because you took this and share this one gold from that book or one wisdom of our knowledge.

Or Next turn. I think they can do. And they really appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. So, I mean, I talked to Luke Roc and he has his newsletter refactoring that club and also in this conversation.

Now, I'm thinking, like, yes, I've said I don't read much, but the skill of reading digesting, and then like condensing that information, I see that as a skill, and I think that skill could be very valuable for me, but also for my peers doesn't matter if they're technical or from An adjacent. Like, how do you say that Jason field? I guess, I think the skill of condensing information and putting it out there as kind of a golden nugget, as you mentioned. I think that's very valuable.

Would you recommend people try that out and try and condense information and then sharing it internally or externally doesn't really matter. Because I'm curious as to what you've learned through doing that. You mean through reading through condensing that information in kind of, maybe I would call it a summary.

I guess. Yes. Actually. As I thought, as I said, I needed that kind of a system because when I read something here and I approach something to learn, I need to condense this, to take it, to my notes and this process Alexei condensing to my notes. I was already there so I need I thought I didn't need it to him and see to think about this much but then, of course, I just needed one more step, okay? It is in my notes and then, I just need me.

Maybe let's say maybe two to refine it a bit, maybe to format it a bit and then push it to to to some kind of, let's say social network or somewhere to blog post or whatever.

Interesting my my notes are horrible, my notes are so cluttered like, I feel like I need an organized system. That's why I'm looking forward to the article, you're gonna you're gonna write, but yes. Like I've I've written down my notes and even in different conversations that I have or work contexts. And I've always written them down in the most basic variant of unknown. Old program on my laptop. And now I've heard really good stuff about stuff like notion and different applications.

I think there's one which escapes me, but the name like I'll probably put it in the show notes, but there's different tools that you can organize your notes and make graphs and, like, download plugins and stuff to organize, whatever. Your second Ray needs to look like. But for me, my son can cost in the notes that I've already taken and to migrate that to a different tool. I see such a, I see such an uphill battle that I've never even started. Like I just keep Going with the

note taking that I've done. And I don't really want to even think about migrating, but I think it can be very valuable for me to do so. So at some point, I'm gonna have to make a decision. Yes, it is a steep here but it would delete the give you a lot of benefits in the future because I also I also had seen the situation. I had the notes in like one note taking app. Yeah. Like adding files I think could work and I have it on paper and then when I need Need to find

somewhere. I knew I had it somewhere but I could not find it. Yeah, I mean it doesn't mean nothing and then you need to sit to create the system for you that you will work. And of course, the tool is not important. The system is important. How you do this, how you store, and how you may find its knowledge later in the inefficient Manner. And then when you build such kind of a system, it will give you much much benefits in the future and the things you said.

You experience it the same like I experiencing that maybe, you know, a lot of people. And this is think why I will see prepared text on that and how to build this kind of fatigue. Of course, people can read this. Think this book, say building the second period from Tiago Forte and all other. Let's say, articles of around these two, to understand about how to start in this field, but this can be also a bit simpler. Oh, of course, you always adjust the adjust it to your personal

preferences and way of work. And to it is not a big burden to you, but it's still very, very much useful. Yeah, I can imagine, I think I'm going to edit this episode, I'm going to re-listen to it, and then I'm probably going to feel inspired enough to take that step.

I've really enjoyed our conversation meal on talking about personal goals mentorship coaching, and even your wisdoms with condensing information and sharing that There anything you still want to share with our audience before we leave off?

Yeah, there are two more things. Maybe I would like to mention that when talking about goals, maybe we do not, we do not. I mentioned here, it is fine to have goals, but there is another but more important things, if people want to achieve something, it's to build systems, usually systems are much better than goals. And what it means is that, we should like this example of the book, I mentioned to you, how to transfer your goal to be your habit.

You know, and you're probably know for this book about habits from James, Clear, come habits and I find this very, very much important to have. Let's say to make a habit from something you want to achieve, and when you make it a habit, this then, you know, you are on the really good. Pat only some kind of a goals which are written there or here, they will probably don't mean Even if even if they are smart smart goals. Yes, till they could mean nothing. If you make a habit from them,

then it's great. And of course, there is a separate topic of productivity productivity techniques. I write a lot of out this Eisenhower technique Pomodoro Technique, time boxing getting things done and all other techniques that you can use in your daily life, that could support you in building this habit. And with this habit, That that habit will get you to your that you fulfill your goals in the future. Yeah, I'd like that additional lot writing.

Things down making things smart as one thing. And at some point, you actually have to act and making it as easy as possible for yourself in finding habits that work for you. I think that's the only way to sustainably keep achieving goals, right? Because you can do it. Once, you can do it twice, but the real art, I feel like it's doing it consistency or consistently over and over again.

I love that addiction. Beats motivation every time. So that this is very, very much. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely stand by that cool. We're going to round it off here everyone. Thank you so much for listening. Me time, Milano vich, Our Guest. I'm going to put all his socials in the description below. Check him out. Let him know you came from our show. And with that being said, thank you for listening. We'll see you on the next one.