High Performance Mindset with Reiner Kraft

Hi everyone. My name is Patrick akhil and if you're interested in a healthy mindset, how to achieve it, as well as how that helps with performance, this episode is for you. Joining me today. Is that I in our craft, he's the founder of the mindful leader where he helps Tech Leaders with a high-performance mindset. I'll put all his socials, whether some resources in the description below. Check them out. And with that being said, enjoy the episode.

That is felt, it's time to, to experience something different, and yeah, maybe maybe there is part of this also that the work culture of General culture around here. We'll move to Berlin is quite different. Yeah, and I think the overall combinations kind of attractive to work on some new things work in a new complex.

In the context could compare to have been doing before otherwise if I would have switched to a different company, let's say in a it be area that the difference probably would have been not that not that major, it's basically may be working in Sunnyvale maybe then you work at Mountain View. Yeah but everything else around it is usually not that big of a change, right? But moving to Berlin was Major

change. The complete terms of any possible Dimension, you can think about, just think, I think

a lot of people and either work wise, or even LifeWise head to a point where they're comfortable with what they have and then they seek either a challenge or like, a change of context and it can be in a work environment and then they just switch companies, but some people make a complete shift just like you did. They move countries, and completely change the context, they operate in basically, and I don't know where that comes from. I think. It comes from kind of this innate.

I don't know if it's curiosity or something that like is unknown for people to kind of go through and seek out for themselves and probably get some kind of fulfillment from that as well. Yes, it is a good point as he is big factor, you can into the unknown Getting used coming comfortable with the unknown. Angus is part of the journey as well, and I think situations like this are perfect for

experienced English. Yeah, exactly. Now I know you do a lot with regards to mindfulness now but if you look back in your career when did it start basically when were you more aware of being Mindful and working with mindfulness and how is it going to continue to? Grow to where it is now. Well, that was more of a let's say 10 years ago, 11 years ago today, it was more like a crash course. I got into mindfulness. It was not intended at that point.

Even the term mindfulness, I regret maybe a little bit here and there about it, but I was not I didn't really know what was behind it or why it matters so it was a completely distant. Concept. And then when at the end of the day, through this environment, they are true. The fast-paced basically, work continues work. Not enough balance because you pretty much you adapt to these things. So that it's kind of it's typical that you work non-stop. You worked at several positions

sometimes. All at once I was teaching at the University and sell a cruise, I work full-time. Yahoo still worked on some start-up ideas on the side. So there was a lot of stuff going on. And I had at that point already had a family with two boys. So while it was, it was a lot of things going on and it's some

point the body basically told me here. No, stop it was this, I could sense that you put in more energy only to achieve less. It's we would you will try to compensate by working harder but it looks like the productivity that all. Yeah. And these were the first signs of stress too much stress. It was clear something needed to happen and this is when at the end of the day, it hit me harder. Where I, at that point, this was the pivotal moment.

So this was the story which I sometimes are shared or it's also my blog because it was To me, it was quite a pivotal moment when this was during the night. It's not a. I woke up in the middle of the night and I felt like I have a heart attack or something like dying. Basically. And I saw what, right? So I was at that point was, of course in big stress, emergency unit, came to check me out and put me on all these instruments and then they drove him to the

hospital. And during that thrive in the That emergency unique to the hospital on the way they are. This is where all of the sudden experience, complete silence, and peace, and quietness. I could pretty literally observe myself. It was completely calm and it felt good. So that was a moment which I hadn't experienced before and of course that made me later on that made me curious. What was this state?

Yeah, my mind goes in there. Point is there's been around about mindfulness being connected to the present moment and this was actually what was happening there at just being there. Instead of the Mind jumping back and forth between one sought after the other rehashing, the past planning, the future strategizing and so on. So it was a Really key moment for myself rather than I felt that, oh, oh, there is something there, and interestingly enough that. So, at the end, it wasn't

something severe. I had was doctors, told me I had this is called an anxiety attack, okay? Or panic attack or whatever. They gave me a few pills. I walked out the next morning. Still puzzled what was happening, but my employer that point Yahoo they offered a mindfulness-based stress reduction class mbsr which is Skyler standard for mindfulness eight week class fellow. This is something I can try out. Yeah, and when I got into this, I realized, yeah, this is mindfulness now.

I know what it is. Now, it was clear. I could connect the dots between my experience before and when I started doing like little of these mini meditations body scans and so on these exercises, it was clear that this goes in the same direction. But helpful, it's good for me. And so that's when I started my journey. They're interesting. I like that a lot, but the kind of the work pressure and the shifting of focus and being so

kind of, I wouldn't, how do you, how do you even call that? Like, I think your mind working in overdrive compared to your body, like those have all, I've talked to all the people and those have all been symptoms that people is heading towards a burnout burning themselves out. Literally, I mean, just by virtue, Prove that you got a panic attack in the middle of the night by an exotic attack. I think that might happen to a lot more people or they find themselves in that state when

it's kind of too late, right? Because the by virtue of that people burn out, and I feel like I'm somewhere on that scale. I don't think I'm too far ahead towards a burnout but I definitely don't think I am like more mindful of what I'm doing or my mind is at ease sometimes because I do wake up in the middle of the night and I'm thinking a lot. About work stuff for personal life stuff. Like my mind is very much busy with the day-to-day or even not the day-to-day. Exactly.

As you mentioned the past the future, it goes all over the place sometimes and I feel like sometimes I'm in control and sometimes I'm not in control at all and it just wanders and I stay awake because of that. Like, what would you advise for people that their mind, just wanders off, how to get it back into control because the mind is I think a very interesting thing, Well, too. Yeah, I mean those are exactly

the thanks to sharing. I mean, these are exactly the type of symptoms that I experienced as well. Like waking up in the middle of the night. Basically, sleep was affected. Yeah, that was. That was pretty. Yeah. It was pretty rough because if you don't have that sufficient sleep and if you even worse the next day and so Yeah, I think the symptoms are there and I would recommend if people are experienced these symptoms of I call it a busy mind and the mind

is always on you. Looks like you can't seem to turn Adobe able to turn it off, you wake up in the middle of the night. So these are the typical symptoms of busy mind and yeah they lead eventually to state of mental exhaustion. Yeah. And this was the state where I was in basically it's the mental image. Dual processing. Capability is basically exhausting. It's getting harder to focus. It's getting harder to get stuff done. Burnout, is it the like the end

of the road, right? It's a condition. Where at that point, if you really encountered a full-blown burnout, there's not much. You can do it pretty much. Yeah. You know, it's you're done right. There is it's basically and I didn't experience the Vernal, but I know from many experienced that and work with no cost. It actually gets, it takes quite some effort to get out of this burnout State.

Yes, it's a condition. It's something that is very severe, but I would say, not all people reach that stage. When You Reach like myself, you reach a state where you already know you're heading that way, it's mental exhaustion, right? And you know, the Bible is always busy, sleep is affected as a stress opens. And so, then the question comes, can you control the mind? And that was the question that I was exploring for many years and going deeper and figuring.

Exactly this question out can actually control the line. It looks like, I can't lift it. The mind is the type of is like a software, right? Mind isn't software, it has all its limitations, it might be buggy, it runs all kind of sub proteins. And many of them are not really healthy for you like Many of them limiting swords, false beliefs type of cell proteins that basically could create also negativity, varying and supplement.

So it's it's a software. You can really control it but you can learn to become aware of the software of what it's doing to you and you have a possibility then to start changing the programming. Interesting. Actively, right? So I think Think so, the debugging aspect as a software engineer and familiar on how to

debug a program. So here is the same analogy is debugging line is possible and making little changes step by step, but you need this level of what I call present awareness being connected to the present moment. This was exactly this what when I was in the state that I was experience. This, this was a full state of being present. In such state, or maybe during a meditation or when you doing some sport, you have these moments when you're completely flow.

Yeah. And this is a state where you fully connect to the present moment that this state allows you to actually look at the mind, you can observe it. You can start to learn to how to observe it, but then you can also start thinking about what kind of software routines would not like to change. Change if they're not suitable anymore. Because a lot of these routines are outdated, and they're not actually at all, there's no

advantage and still having them. So, this is where the reprogramming order rewrite, the software products, interesting. But the first to figure out what to rewrite, you first need to be

aware of what is going to happen in your mind, right? And I recognize what you say in finding a state of flow. Like, I do that when I'm programming or exactly. As you say, sometimes when Sports, and if I'm doing I don't do this often, but I have done this in the past, like a deep breathing exercise. I feel like, I am more aware of what is happening. Exactly in my body, right? I can feel my toes all the way to the top of my head, basically being more present of where I am in this space.

What is touching, what and being really aware of what is happening in my own body? But I've never trained for that. Like is that some process? You can train for being more aware of what is happening and being more in the present? I guess? So. Oh, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that is doable. And I, the question was, how do you do it? And I experimented with all kind of different of mindfulness exercises techniques programs.

I met with many different teachers, attended workshops Retreats seminars and all of those, they were definitely helpful, but I didn't see yet the for me, the big picture because as a scientist Like to see, this is actually working. Is now if I do this compare to this, how do I know this is actually better? Or is it is it just different or how do I more systematically? Cultivate this awareness. So, that was the big question and then we will the past and say five years. I figured out.

Yes, it can actually be systematically. Be trained. Like there's people, I mean, they basically wake up the next morning and They're fully present. Yeah, if they're fully, they're fully, they are like what it stated I had when I was driving into the hospital, it's like being, and there you are, right? And then, that state last for a long period of time. It was, it's intermittent, it could go back to old and it

comes back. So some people have a little bit of luck here so that they get this state of. Usually it's there. Some part of suffering involved if there is Suffering. It could actually happen that this opening happens to you and you automatically more present without having to train anything, it's just there. But I would say, for the majority of people, it's a indeed, it's training process. And then the question was, how

can it be systematically? Yeah, so this is when I ended up with this what I call now measurable mindfulness, it's adding a dimension of data to mindfulness make it Data travel. There are not many people when they hear this. The first time, what measuring data mindfulness, how does this fit together? But it works together very well and it works. So, when I started working with tech leaders Business Leaders, because they wanted to exactly

do this. They wanted to get out of this mental noise, mental chatter all this busy mind stuff. Also refer to this as the monkey mind and train state of mind. And I told him. Look this is trainable, there is

data there it can be measured. You can try out different things, you can see how it goes and you can see over time you can see indeed progress or not just depends right and that resonated also very well because people I work with usually they like data they like numbers and that's why measure the

mindfulness. It's something where I said oh this is this is cool it's like this It's like finally there is something there that you can use that shows you how your awareness your level of present awareness for your LPA. That's how I call it is actually rising or maybe not depends. Yeah, so yeah. So data-driven and measurable mindfulness mindfulness this war. This was the game changer interesting, and you mentioned

like awareness being one of the factors that you measure. First of all, how How do you measure that? And then second of all, what other factors do you look at when measuring like mindfulness, in that way? Yeah so LP a level of present awareness is a key K Pi because what it represents is the percentage of time over the course of your waking day that you're fully aware and fully connected to the present moment. Yeah. So that means to make the simpler this example.

Usually, I give if there are 16 hours that you're awake eight hours, you sleep, so you have 16 hours, roughly 1,000 minutes to keep it And if you manage to stay fully present for let's say 20 minutes and we'll of course of the day. So then you have about 2% LPA and two percent sometimes three percent sometimes less is also usually the average of people I start working with okay state of untrained mind and 2%. LPA usually is not bad but it is something that you have to

first. You have to be able to even measure it. It and establish a baseline, which is a process that typically takes about two to three weeks because you have to first become familiar with this idea of how do I actually track these? I called in mindful minutes. Yeah. How do I attract them? How do I know if I'm actually fully present or not? Most of the time unconscious? Pretty much identified with my thinking mind and doing all this useless? Learned activity.

So you have to learn. This is a process where you first learn to be able to to measure an established. This Baseline it's doable and then people get after two or three weeks, usually they have some baseline roughly. It doesn't have to be perfect but they come out and say, oh yeah. So now it looks like on average is maybe 3%. Sometimes it's for sometimes, it's cool but they get a sense of its problems. Probably about the air and once the Baseline is established,

then usually in the training. So one of the trainings around measurable mindfulness that I developed. It's like a three months training, movie, take that Baseline. And I call it 10x presence because we want to have a significant impacts. Not just moving it a little bit up, but we want to factor of 10x. Yeah. Because that's what I hear is realize. This is when Change happens, if you have a really boost in this appearance. And so this is a process.

And then, let's say you start with two percent, maybe after two or three months, you get up to 10 percent 15 or even 20 percent. Yeah, this is when life changes, basically for you, interesting just just to play Devil's

Advocate because I think that would be interesting. Let's say I'm I'm trying to be more Mindful and I'm working on getting more mindful minutes throughout my day. I start off with 20 Minutes which is about two percent, which doesn't sound like a lot, but if you say that's already quite good, then I believe that. But if I'm trying to actively work on it and I'm trying to be more aware of when it happens

when it doesn't happen. Shouldn't I like, shouldn't my mind already be more aware of when it happens and like just because by virtue of me working on that, it can also be a placebo know that I think I am being more aware throughout my day, or that it, I do see an increase just because I really want that sometimes, just because you Something that might can like have a placebo effect and then I don't know if it's

actually happening and even. So if it doesn't actually happen if it still helps you, it's still good at the end of the day. Yeah, I think this is the cutest. The point is it's not black or white. So if they give you an example to collect, let's say five mindful winners. You take a shower and you take a shower anyway. But now the instruction is you set yourself an intention of being fully present when you're taking a shower. Yeah. So there is an intention being

present during the shower. Then you take the shower and you actually have you use your intention? Now to stay fully present, you feel the harder, you feel the temperature, you feel when it touches your skin, you fully in there and let's say they do this for five minutes. We're not be perfect because after I don't know 30 seconds, 20 seconds the first thought pops up and you're out of it. Yeah but since you set yourself with tension, you go back to

being present. After the 30 seconds, I tell you go in and out. So, these are called conscious, recoveries, okay? And this is how, this is, how you train the muscle of the Mind through these conscious recoveries, the more you have the better, right? This is when the Mind learns to basically recover itself going back into the present moment. And so if you did this exercise, at the end of the day, perfect these five minutes shower. Right? Being present in the shower.

Yeah, you could now say, Lovely. Well, it took five minute shower, probably, I was three minutes, fully present the rest. I was basically dozing off going and in the busy mind again, but three minutes, I was probably fully present. So then this exercise was helpful because on one side, you've collected some mindful minutes.

You have a good sense of how many directly we're in the second while you were doing the exercise, you trained conscious recoveries and that is how you at the end of the day, make progress. Conscious. Recoveries, the more the more trains the Mind becomes, right? And the mind realizes Conscious recovering basically means the Mind realizes, it went back to back into these old patterns of identifying, with some useless thoughts and then it learned. Well, looks like this is not helpful.

I always get when I do that. I get basically discovered and then I have to go back out of it again and go into the present moment. So the Mind realize it's not helpful. Yeah, and so, this is when gradually it, is this drifting away. And there is a metric for this as well, you asked for different kpis, there's different mind, kpis conscious, recoveries are already mentioned, but there is also something called salt per

minute. So, this is the number of sorts that activity in your mind, over one minute here. There's also an exercise little mini meditation on how you can basically create this data point and collect the sample and you You people have very busy mind. It's not rare to see people having sought permitted of 10, 15 or more months. So, it's crazy. If you think about it, if you would actually sit there and every sort it comes up, you would basically speak it out loud, right?

While you're the voice in your head, and instead of letting it just sit in silence, basically talk to it, right? This is good way to actually make this printers to the surface. What kind of what kind of Dizziness there is going on, right? If you would see, if you would observe a person sitting in an office and we'll talk all the time like crazy and fast, right? But this person would just verbalize those sorts are going on, but they're just happening. This is how the busy mind looks.

If you would actually make it, make it visible. And so, this is why I hide salt activity of 10 or more swords. Per minute is usually an indicator of an untrained state of mind and just say in through these Conscious, recoveries through the training over time, you can bring these numbers down. Like so it's between it ideally you want, plenty down to zero. This is a very I can speak from

my own experience. This is a very pleasant state to be. In fact is if there is silence, if there is quiet quietness in the mind. Yeah, it's do. It's a different ballgame, right? So then you have it's like the leg and think about the lake. There is basically there's no wind It's basically calm, just calm State. And this is how your mind is 0 shots per minute. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you cannot sink anymore.

You can use the mind like, a surgeon like it's very precise tool, if you need it. Like, if you say, oh now I need to work on this problem. Here, I need to prepare this presentation. Then you start using the my end and go into a problem solving or two, maybe for a few minutes who know. Those get some stuff done and then if you get out of it again and then again there is the

silence. So it's a completely different experience when you most of the time in this quiet State and you're connected to actually the present moment. Interesting. I mean parts per minute for me is an interesting long because I feel like that comes with kind of as adolescents and growing up and gaining more responsibilities because those are all things you need to Think of things you need to account for things. You need might need to do, right?

If you're a kid, you're growing up, a lot of things are facilitated for you. Your parents take care of you, you go to school, you have a solid rhythm in the things that you do in your free time, you can explore. I just explore the world because that's how you grow. That's how you gain knowledge. And at some point, you get more and more responsibilities, right? You start living by yourself or with friends and all of a sudden you have to start thinking about, okay.

What are my meals going to be for the day or all I forgot to eat. I'll have to think of even Eating because before meal just appeared. And then with that in mind, the more you start working, the more you're starting to work with your mind even. And at some point, you're going to buy a house, you're going to get kids, you're going to be very worried about their stuff and you're going to have to take care of them.

But your factors of like things, you have to think of things, you have to account for and the responsibilities. You have, I feel like as long as those keep growing, you're going to have more thoughts and your thoughts might wander off to one of those aspects to think of, right? Because If you're responsible for that, you're accountable for that, you want to do it, right? And at some point, you have to actually allocate some thinking time before you act for that.

So I feel like already by virtue of growing up. I feel like those thoughts per minute are bound to increase, but if you don't train for it and then I thought I had as well, is because I was walking like last weekend.

I was walking around one of the markets in Amsterdam and I saw people like selling fruit and because I walked that market pretty often I see the same people over and over again and they do that six days a week basically, because on Sundays, everything's closed and ask my girlfriend.

Like you think life would be simpler if we did that, right, if we were farmers or if we sold the same thing on like a market or day and more day out because I think, first of all, I'm not going to work as much with my mind and just by virtue of not working as much with my mind, I feel like I'm going to get a little bit better of a mental state, maybe being more Mindful and being more. More aware of what I'm doing.

Just by virtue of working more, physically rather than, with my mind, mentally, I guess I feel like it also like, ISM bigger strain. Those thoughts per minute with people that work more with their mind on a day-to-day. I don't know if that's anything you've seen research wise that also can contribute towards those assumptions. I guess, what are your thoughts there? You know, I mean, they're so different environment.

Yeah, I would say that point, I'm not sure about particular research that distinguishes, these cases, I'm sure every studies out there when they looked at, it means there's thousands tens of thousands of studies around meditation that basically really looked at all aspects of meditation, how it helps train your mind and different approaches and so on. So there's plenty of Studies that I'm sure is probably something out there. That looks at this a little bit

closer. My experience there is. Yeah, sure. I mean, if you're in nature, if you are exposed in an environment where thinking makes yeah, it's not needed that much. I would say it could be maybe here and there, little bit easier to stay connected to the present moment but The other hand may also not. I think the challenges are there, anyhow. And I think if you use the mind more often, like if you have these cognitive tasks mental processing, that needs to be done. It is what it is.

I mean, as long as you're think, the problem there is more on the body. I think the body at that point needs more resources to provide this level of Mental processing capabilities of the body if my analogy is the hardware and the hardware needs to be in good shape. And so if you're using the mental processing all the time often, the praying is sucking up so much energy, it uses, 20% of your energy 24/7. Yeah, and it's a difference

compared. Now, if I would just, I don't know what's really working through Forest. And the mind is more in this experience mode. As let's assume that the mind is trained, and if you could still walk through the forest and you have 10 15 watts per minute. So that's why I'm saying, it's not necessarily a condition, it could be that it quiets down a little bit more because there is less distraction there. On the other hand.

Again, I see people. They, they go out and major, they have the same number of sorts. Yeah. So I think, at the end of the day, it is There's always the challenge of training the mind, and I think this is something people just are not aware of the disc can be done, or this is something, it is important and so they may discover it. But usually, they discovered in to stay when there is already a lot of mental exhaustion there, and then, of course it's harder to make these changes, right?

If I would have learned that let's say in kindergarten, wouldn't that be great right now? Yeah, someone in kindergarten told me, oh, you know, there is, you could actually train your mind, of course, using simple language would say, oh, you know, you can feel more quiet, comfortable will learn. There's this thing called a little mini meditation. We sit here, close our eyes, it relaxed with shell. And then we take these experiences and put them into a playful and playful scenarios.

We learn breathing techniques and all that stuff, right? And we learn to be kind, Don't be gentle to each other, as rather doing all that good stuff. I mean think about what would how the world would change if you would actually put some of these basics of training, the Mind engaging in some of those mindfulness activities and practices and let young kids at that age, basically really experienced them and I think they're at that point, they're much better setup for life, right?

But yeah, this is not I mean it's happening here and there but I think that would be a big, could be a huge game changer. I think that could be a very interesting one because my assumption shirt like I I've been around a lot of kids.

I have three siblings and a lot of nephews and cousins and my mom is a preschool teacher, but my assumption would be that kids are innate already pretty good at that. I mean, the younger the better but that that's an assumption. So I feel like being more aware of it is a good thing and then training it, maybe when you're becoming more Tonight because as soon as you hit a kind of your teenage years, a lot of things just already in your body are going to change.

Also in your mind are going to change. If you like that might be a sweet spot for them to be more aware of how you can train that and let those thoughts just be thoughts or turn them off. Also going to want a more flexible basically. Yeah, I think the problem is it happens already. Unfortunately way too early when people nowadays they grow up in this digital age. Yeah, with these smartphones. Bones. And that's a good ones everywhere, right?

So this is the problem. I have two boys and they basically grew up in this time and I think people in general, I see that young kids and teenagers as well. Their attention span is so small because there's constantly social stuff happening on the phone, right here on the tablet. That sucks for your sucks, you attention. And so your your awareness is like this, the monkey, Is this little monkey bouncing around and goes to everything that is

moving or changing? I know if there's a little like thing pops up on your head on your smartphone or little message comes in or whatever. So there's all these different channels and I think this is the this is the problem that Kang, so young kids. When they're born, of course, the fully aware that fully present. But once they become toddlers, once they identify with so called ego, the egoic mind, which is Hopping in these early

years, right? You can test if someone is already identified with the egoic mind, if you take that little toddler the toy away, right? Yeah. And if that boy away and then if the toddler is basically starting to cry and all this is mine, this is mine. Give it to me, right? Then you're already see, there is an eagle, right? So it has starts very early and then if you the ego is evolving, that's fine. But if then through All these social media and all this technology stuff.

I think these this current generation has a tough time because the mind is not even trained at all. It's actually worse, I would say it's much worse compared to someone who grew up like in my age in the 70s, in the 80s. There were no smartphones or any of this stuff. You would actually get out and you talk with people face to face right in the phone called is Was something special like when you were at home, there was a old phone thing, right? Wish. And there was no wire Wireless

for anything. It was this one phone in the inner apartment, or in the house, and then you would go, there you make a call. Usually be at least World weren't long calls to grow short, cause you just synchronize on some topic and that's all the doors and

nowadays. The number of distraction is so high right now, that That requires a say even more focus on training in mind because with an attention span versus one study, they said that nowadays some people, they have an attention span of eight seconds or something wrong, which is the same same as a goldfish. Yeah. So I would, I would get worried when I hear these numbers say, oh my goodness and this is basically there's science out there. Are they doing these studies

right? And I think, Training the mind is now needed more than ever. Yeah and yeah, working on Florence's increasing this Focus evolving beyond the Goldfish again, right? I think it's all doable, but first becoming aware, this is actually where my, where my current, what my current state of mind allows me to do. It's not that great, but people also my experience, don't do it proactively, it's more when there is some pressure.

Pressure. When there is some urgency, that maybe Focus levels are so low that they say, I can't get my work done anymore and then they kick start exploring to. What can I do to be more focused? Yeah. And then someone was they realize, oh, there's something called, training the mind, and then of, all of a sudden, becomes a priority. But now it's much harder to get going on this kid.

Even started if people like in young age, Is for the mentioned before we'll just playfully learn it, right? Yeah. I agree. It's interesting because when I do that comparison, I'm always comparing to my own upbringing, but that is not reality anymore.

Things have shifted and Technologies. Now they're very much more earlier. Especially like I mean even if you're comparing you to me and then meet up people that are growing up.

Now I guess in very young ages like it is accelerating and I wonder if that trend of like technology acceleration And it being more in the hands of younger Generations, I guess also is there's a correlation with, like issues having to do with the mind, like anxiety issues or depression and stuff like that, because I feel like my gut feeling says, there might be a correlation having to do with that.

I mean, there's already social media studies, that say it's not healthy for kids, the younger, the worst usually. So, being more aware of mindfulness, I feel like it's going to be a very powerful thing. And I think is gonna also Row more. So in the future because technology is not going away, it's going to get more and more accessible at a younger age because it also has benefits. There's not only downsides but the hard part is like the training the mind and being

aware of that. It does come fairly late in your like a life. I feel like I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, and I think the second aspect to this, which we haven't talked yet about, is the body. The health competencies of people is so low, it's It's sometimes also scary that people know. So little in terms of how they need to take care of their body properly. And I think this is again, the lack that people. Ideally, you learn these important things in kindergarten.

I mean, from when I go back to this age by, let's say my grandmother right there, she would tell me you don't do this. You do this, you eat this, you don't need this. So they will these old sayings in terms of eat more veggies or

do, right? So these these things, what you learns, you And some very basic things but for that type of age or decade when I was growing up, this was sufficient and it was actually pretty good, it wasn't backed up by science, but actually the science came later confirmed, this actually was

good stuff. Nowadays is all well dated, but in this complex environment, nowadays with all his toxins pollutions, it's basically craziness on the whole food chain, all the stuff, what's happening here around us the body. D on top of all having to deal with all this. Let's say detoxifying is a big topic for the body but it's also this constant processing's mental processing capabilities. I mean if you have a smartphone you have to constantly watch what's going on there.

What streams are there is switch between 10 different streams even as a teenager, right? And yeah, this is this is requires a lot of mental processing power. That means your body. Needs to move around a lot of energy in form of electrons. And so to generate these electrons move them around and do this processing. It needs a lot of resources, but resources for instance, in from of minerals vitamins, to build, certain enzymes and proteins. So it needs to be well nourished.

But people don't usually know that much in terms of how to really take care of the body properly, they sink. They know, but the numbers, they look different. If they actually start digging deeper, this is where this movement of biohacking, I would say about 13 14 years ago. Think Dave asprey was there. One of the Pioneers in this field? Yeah. But there came other developments or all Quantified Self really going to again, similar thing. Look at biomarkers. Look at numbers.

Start to learn how How can you optimally support your body? Eugene's all different. We all have different needs. How do you do that? And I think if usually you have to do something this area area that was my own experience. I was I wasn't really doing well 10 15 years ago, my body wasn't really bad shape. Yeah. And so I had to learn. This was a lot of learning activity by that was training the mind but becoming also More aware it was easier to create this focus on the body.

I think otherwise it's not possible, but once you create Focus for your body, then you learn also on your experiment in an agile manner. How can you what kind of foods are good for you or not? Good for you? How do you know you're actually doing better? So you do the same approach that you do for the mind, you do it also for the body. And so if you do that, then there's a Synergy. There is a synergetic effect.

Between body and mind. Because if the body is in better shape, what mental processing capability goes up instead goes up. You can also meditate better. If you can meditate better. It's also easier my experience

to raise more awareness. So, it's a, there's a really nice Symmetry and this is when I coined this term, few years ago, the high-performance mindset which I created training programs on, and helping people to really look at these three pillars of Awareness Mind and Body in this direction. Yeah. To basically introduce these Synergy effects and this is when the magic happens is when you do a little bit in each of these three areas.

And this is when you see results, basically I think that's a very interesting one and you bring up performance like when I'm thinking of performance and especially in

the context that I am in, like let's say I'm an engineering manager and have to do performance reviews, it's always based on what people Will do how they do it but it's never of them and it's hard to judge this never if they're like state of being right. So now we're about their mindset or body but that can very much affect all their output.

Like what they're showing has a fundamental like having to do with who they are as a person, or how they're feeling with the words, their mind, and their body, how well they're performing my drastically change, right? If they're in a negative spiral. For example, or if they're of high thoughts per minute, when it comes to their mind, right? If their mind wanders off, and it's hard to focus. Focus. You will the see that in kind of

a work performance. Yet, there's no focus on fixing that from an organizational point of view and I think that's a very interesting one, right? Because fundamentally that is like a groundwork for a person before they can achieve. Like, excellent work results that have to have their mind and body in order. I feel like to do so right to focus to really focus to find that flow, for example, and if you have a trained mind and body, you will do that faster.

Which means also Your performance at the end of the day is going to accelerate just by virtue of being better at that, which I think is a very interesting one. Yeah. Absolutely. I think the some of these problems. So let's say someone is in a state of negativity. Yeah. Where is in a state of depression? Of course, this affects your output on work. Yeah so it's obvious love and a lot of these things are based on sub optimal nutrition. The body doesn't have enough resources.

In this case, for instance, to build sufficient level of neurotransmitters. Yeah. Or break them down faster. Enough. So it's just a body can't do it and then what comes out is, maybe it's depression. Maybe it's some anxiety, maybe it's some other form, the, but at the end is basically there's the body causing the problem. And then if you think some of the doctor to give you some of these pills via take this and yeah, sure. This is like, like a Band-Aid.

Yeah, it can be helpful in certain aspect, but it's a Band-Aid, nothing more. But you have to go in and figure. Also, what is really the reason? What's what is really, what does my body need to get out of the state? And this is where the science of epigenetics process of biohacking can be very helpful and I think it work, my Approach. There was that when I coined this term also many years ago the mindful leader right mindful leadership.

This was something where realized is leader, you actually have to lift these things, by example. Yes, you have to basically be in the present State, you have to upgrade your mindset, your software and you have to also upgrade your body. And people notice this, if you all of a sudden you're in this, in a great shape, they see this right people. I mean, you can see this in the pandemic people. Many of them got sick. Yeah. Right. But if for instance, you take good care of your body.

You may not necessarily have to get sick. When you basically all time you're there you're full of energy, your full high level of resilience, your mind is running like yeah, it's like a well-oiled machine. I mean, people notice these type of things and then they make question and come up and say you well I noticed that you're not stressed at all. Yeah we're in this calm State. Your Always full of energy. How do you do that? How? Yeah, right.

And this is when they ask you, how do you do that? And then then you can tell them how there is something called a high-performance mindset, right? It's an idea of between more awareness upgraded software of the Mind, better, Hardware your body, right? There's different ways. You can do that. There's resources out there that you can explore, and then people get excited because they get motivated because these topics usually Innate.

Pretty much with everyone. Yeah, everyone has basically would benefit from little bit more awareness, little bit more value, being a little little. Yeah, maybe you can wear state or more focused state of mind. So people would benefit they know that. And then all of the sudden there is motivation because they're seeing that you're in the work context as a leader you using these principles as part of your how you define your own leadership style.

What does make you successful? Basically exactly that makes you successful people, see this, and then they obviously it resonates and then they get curious. And this is then when there's options, also, what the company can can raise awareness of these topics in the, in the basic in shaping a new workplace. There's a lot of efforts underway in, many companies are exploring concepts of mental health and well-being in the workplace and the experimenting because Being Innovative and

it's good to see this. Yeah. Yeah I agree. And an interesting thing that you mentioned is that like you might see different outcomes, right? Like a negative spiral or someone that's depressed or like weird anxieties popping up when you think about certain things. But then if you look at the issue there might just be the same issues. They're right either being like having a not trained mind.

I guess or not being optimal with your body or the things that you're consuming or the vitamins and the nourishments there, Very interesting because I never linked that together like people always look at output I feel like and if you fix the underlying cause that is so much more powerful than focusing on those outputs especially as you mentioned that doctors might just prescribe you something and then we'll talk

about a Band-Aid, right? Because they fixing that one up well x amount of others might pop up. I think that's a very interesting. I've really enjoyed this conversation right now I think

it's very thought-provoking and I feel like I'm you opened up a rabbit hole for me to like dive deep and Do more research in before we round off. Is there anything? You'd still like to share with regards to our listeners before we round up? So that's why. No, thanks. I think they were on my side. If people get curious on these topics, many years ago, I created block the mindful leader dotnet, so I think we can share

some links to those resources. There, there is plenty of videos on this topic and I talked about Vee. Is measurable mindfulness, high performance mindset, but also things like upgrading bodies through biohacking, the science of epigenetics. So, there's a lot of stuff there and resources people can review and explore. And yeah, there is no I think in terms of how to get there, I think it's all starts with awareness.

I would say, if during this episode here doing this show, there was maybe Uh some inspiration or there was some radiated popped up, use this little piece of awareness to basically make me be--make node or something and then start to get back to it and follow up whatever it was and this is how you get started is cultivating awareness. And so this is usually I recommend influence. Is this idea of mindfulness said oh yeah this is interesting.

Yeah, then let's not just think about it, actually. Let's do something. Maybe you sign up for an mvs are classed way. I did this long time ago for eight weeks and get a taste of what this actually is so that you can get a flavor but you're doing something. And if you're doing that by cultivating awareness, The Next Step, usually what happens, you can better, observe the mind, you can start what I mentioned before, can get into the Mind debugging, or the Mind hacking, so, to speak.

And then, of course, when the mind works better, you can also I'll go a little bit more into the body. Start with some maybe some intermittent fasting. Try out some biox tryout better nutrition. Learn about these things, right? And it's a cycle. You start a lifestyle. There's no, right, or wrong. You just do a little bit of pieces that you measure build measure learn. Right.

And then you make tweaks, or the whole high performance mindset is a lifestyle that evolves, but you have to get started at some point. And I think, maybe that what I hope out of Show is that people said, oh, yeah, there is something there. Let's let's review its look and what can be done, basically together like that a lot. Especially the addition that like, it's going to be unique to you as well, and you have to experience and try things out and see what works like I've done.

I've done things like intermittent fasting or like drinking four liters of water a day and I know what that does to my body like had to be a lot or was very hungry, a lot but also State of Mind changed in that way and just by virtue of doing that, you know, what it does to your body and you know if you'd like that feeling so you can do more or if you want to change an experiment with other things. I think that's a very healthy

exactly. As you coined it more lifestyle rather than mindset I guess goes hand in here. It'd be cool if we go in there go ahead and then but I think the key the key thing. Maybe the last thing I say to this is the data part only go to data, see how you can use if you're good with data. Good with numbers. See how you can, what kind of keep your eyes, can you use for the mind for the body for awareness? And just these resources, I pointed out earlier, right?

But use the numbers to guide you because you may be doing something, it may feel good but it's actually not good. It's don't trust, you're feeling too much. Sometimes the feeling can get you in the wrong direction, but I give you one last example, here vitamin D, right? This is something you have to measure ER, take some blood, right? The doctor's office word home, we look what your vitamin D levels are. It's not that you can sense them by his body awareness, or you

thinking, oh, I feel good. My vitamin D levels, would shape, you have to measure it. Then you know, whatever you're doing is going in the right direction. And so I would encourage to explore with this idea of data in the aspect of awareness, mind and body and use it to guide. You basically now are perfect. The addition of data lot, it's not something I do. I go very much based on feeling and that's also what you heard back then.

I have never measured my blood levels, like maybe I should do that. But that's that's a different training thought. Let me, I'll write that down afterwards. I'm going to round it off here. Thank you so much for coming on. Rhino, this was a real pleasure, a lot of thought, provoking thoughts for people.

If you have any questions to right now, I'm going to put all his socials in the description below as well as some of the resources he pointed out. So check them out. Let them know you came from our show. And with that being said, thank you for listening. We'll see in the next one.