Hi everyone. Today we talk about Finn Ops what it is and why it's important. And even how we, as Engineers can prevent from the company spending a fortune on cloud costs, my guest has been a real FrontRunner on this topic over Oblivion Me shows it one. Don't forget to like And subscribe when you're on YouTube and follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Enjoy Beyond coding, a dive into the world of successful people in it from your sponsors Z Bia, creating digital leaders.
Here's your host, Patrick akhil. Hey, Michelle. How's it going? Hey, great. Great to be here. Patrick, yeah, happy to have you. So we invited you on to talk about Philips. Yeah, it's kind of a new kid on the Block and it's an up-and-coming topic which is getting more traction and it's becoming a real important pillar kind of cloud development, but let's start off with more of a personal question of. Why are you passionate about Phillips in the first place? Wow, yeah, that's interesting.
I think Took me time to figure that out too. Yeah, and definitely passionate about it. I think it's a bit crazy, but when I really look back at why, God passionate about cloud in the first place. Yeah, I can really identify that and well, I really am passionate about technology. More even about what technology enables right. I think just as really going really, really back like electricity changed. How we leave. I think, you know, in a broader Sense. Technology.
Does that right? So electricity, we can see that as a sort of Technology. Yeah. And then nowadays, what I saw back in 2013 was that cloud was the next big revolutionary technology that could have this this impact. Yeah. That was when I realized that. Okay, it was around the way before. Yeah. And I decided I wanted to go along with this and when I think why is that is cloud really has this power to really democratize technology on a really next level.
And bring this to phenotypes when I really started learning about cloud and getting knowledge and I wanted to get better and better. This it wasn't even a thing phenotypes was in a term, it conceived. This is kind of recent or Cloud financial management or even cost optimization, but it kind of landed on me to do this. Yeah, when I joined the believe in and I I started to get a lot of energy out of doing this. Yeah.
And the reason is because is that basically what you're doing is making a cloud more efficient. Yeah. So if I look at that and I say okay cloud is is an enablement to write its it democratizes technology and what I'm trying to do with in Ops is to make it even more efficient. So I'm making it easier to democratize technology. And this is what I think why I get so so much energy out of doing that and why I'm so passionate about it? It's really just enabling
people. First of all Cloud enables a lot of aspects, right? It's revolutionary in the fact that developers have a lot more Tools in their hands now. Yeah I think it democratizes technologies that very best way to define what it does. Yeah, it democratizes technology in the past. If somebody wanted to try something they would have to buy a machine. Yeah. And maybe you wouldn't be able to do Do that some people in a lifetime? Yeah, or get it approved in a company and nowadays.
It's so cheap to try an experiment, right? Yeah, everybody basically with internet connection and a computer, it doesn't have to be yours but you just need to have access to that. Then you have access to a plethora of infrastructure and software and anything that you possibly need to build on a virtual level. Yeah. There's So many options out there. Now, that's probably where the
difficulty comes in as well. We had some guys over from Boulder, come in a previous episode and they shared how their Cloud Journey was going. And one of the things that they mentioned and really stuck with me is that they couldn't copy what they had as physical hardware, for example, one-on-one to the cloud because that would not have been beneficial to them, right? They would still have the same pain points, so they really learn to leverage the cloud
cloud, native in some aspects. And Really use it in that way, right? But they also mentioned that there's so many options in kind of figuring how things work and what's the most effective way of doing. It also cost wise is that think, I know where that thin Ops term came in. Yeah. What is fin Ops? Yeah, so too, if I have to Define phenotypes or Cloud financial management, it's knowledge domain. In my opinion is not something that eats its specific thing that you do know.
Oh, it's knowledge to me. Yeah, and it's something that arised out of this need to cope with this Dynamic and distributed nature of the cloud, but not the cloud itself. That's the economic model of the cloud. Yeah, it's really really different than the traditional it that's a most organizations would Leveraging, the past, the Act was Financial wise accounting-wise. A lot easier to manage than the economics in the cloud. Exactly. Because it's how it was.
Previously is an initial cost, right? You invest in something that has, it's a depreciating asset. Yeah, so, what we call the capex model, right? Exactly capital expenditure that you buy something, then you have that asset and then that asset. As a life, right time. And this, it depreciates throughout that Lifetime. And then you, you say, Okay, I, I bought this.
It's a thousand dollars. It's good for three years, five years, seven years, depending on how your taxation goes, whatever country you are, but you have a fixed asset, you know how it works out, you know how, when it's going to be fiscally speaking worth. Nothing. Yeah and then you know that you're going to buy another one. Exactly. Yeah. My uh Cycle starts again, an upgraded version, slightly more expensive or cheaper. If the technology got cheaper to
build that. Yeah. But you're going to buy another one. Exactly. And you have your capacity back? And I need to start appreciating. And there you go, the cycle starts, and then you track assets, right? So, all days, you would have those metal labels stick to every, every heart piece of Hardware that you would have. Yeah, and was sort of easy, right? So you get okay, I want To buy networking equipment, right? So you bought 12 new switches?
Yeah. Then you have all these switches every every single one of them has a serial number and you put that on a database whatever you using to track that. Yeah. And then you use it sort of easy to calculate and it's which is capable of. I don't know how many connections. Yeah but it's a fixed number so you know the more Devices, you need to connect more switches, you will need and so on. So it's kind of predictable foreseeable. It's easy to forecast, right? It's easy to budget how much
you're going to need. So now and that which allows it's the same except you're not the one that's doing it right. You're using it as a service and you're paying as you go. Exactly. So it changed from this capex model to op X. Right. So operational expenditure and not only you use Of course use that as a service but you do need to worry anymore about those numbers for indigenous in one from one point of view, it's great. Yeah. From the user point of view right?
I don't need to worry about that anymore so I don't need to worry if whatever I'm trying to build. It's going to work out. Yeah. Because if it doesn't I just shut it down and I don't have to pay any more free. I don't need to make an investment. I don't need to convince people to Put money on something and if it doesn't work, I'm at risk. My career is at risk or, I don't know. Something this whole project or
initiative is at risk. You can just start over and try again for a few cents or a couple of dollars. Yeah, yes. And whereas before you would have to pay a lot of money on to do the same thing and this is great for that person, for sure for the finance People, or the budget owners. That it's arguable. Right. It's not as predictable anymore. Yeah. And financial people like predictability. Yeah. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's important.
It's really important to keep your cash flow and your everything used to be healthy. And yeah some some some places you have real though she re responsibility so if you if you declare that you had a cost but you cannot explain that or it's wrong. Yeah, you might go to jail or so. So some accountants, some places in some regulated Industries. They, they suffer with that too, right? So there is a extremes. I'm not saying this common, but there are ya, and it's important
to be able to track that. Exactly. And there is a whole mentality shift on this. Yeah, and I mean, if you, you told me that some guy, I'm gonna repeat what you said. You said, if you ask an engineer, how much the cloud is basically Ending. They usually don't know, right? They can look at some numbers. But if you say is it optimized, right? Can we cut some costs here? Yeah, usually I have no clue where to start. Yeah. They are not thankfully. These this mentality slowly
changing. Yeah. But normally you get, they don't know, but it's not that they don't care. They're just not focused on that. They are focus on making things work or keeping them running, right? So with the adoption, Increasing adoption of cloud. People had to read it like probably ball the ball.com people said they had to relearn how to do things right? It wasn't the same it's not about just right where in terms of infrastructure they're going to run is not one to one but how
they do it going Cloud native. Right. So you have to recycle your knowledge and you have to understand that you need to do things differently and the first focus of that was probably how To run. Yeah, yeah. How to make walk or run things in the cloud and once you got that, figured out the second major point, which should have been the first, but was probably the second if we look historically, how this happened was security. How do we make the secure?
Because then everything is in the cloud theory is accessible right from anywhere. So you need to protect that to make, sure that only who you want to access your information, your data or your applications can do it. Yeah. And And then it seems. Okay. Now we figured that out, we know how to do things in the cloud. Let's use cloud. And then everybody started to use cloud.
And then what happened is that all of a sudden, Cloud bills started to go up and up and up. And then somebody said, wait, what's going on here? Yeah. And and then what's going on, is that cloud adoption is increasing and whereas okay, you don't have to pay a whole pie. All those equipment as we were talking about anymore and going through layers of approvals and asking permissions and making business cases and following existing processes, right? That everybody knows how to do. Yeah.
All of a sudden, you gave all this work force with access to the cloud, right? So all your engineers developers Architects, everybody, that has a login that K can go to a cloud account, a subscription or a project depending on the Cloud provider. They basically got an unlimited credit card. Yeah where they can only buy services from that cloud provider. Yeah but they got an unlimited credit card and nobody's checking what they are doing in. Exactly right.
Not even death. Yeah, so some people have this naturally, right? This this I cannot. I need to be responsible again. Not do again. So, it ended with most people are not, you're not concerned or or did they don't care? Yes. Just as I said, they are not focused on this. They are trying to figure out. How do I do this? How do I, how do I make this better or how I just, don't mess it up. Yeah, right. It was shift, but Once you start doing things like this, you just
continue. Yeah, I mean, it's always been the driver of kind of an engineer. Let's take a product team. For example, their Drive is delivering value for the End customer, right first. It was probably on premise with something now move to the cloud. And as you mentioned, you first try and make it happen and you can probably do that. Then the next step is bringing
it to the customer, right? And that brings different questions with it, security is one of them and then we actually have that you're like, okay, we can use this. This is the cycle, right? Except you don't really think about write. The value always has a cost and the cost aspect is changing now. But who then is kind of, I mean I kind of can figure out who's responsible.
It's more of an overarching thing but you should be responsible, I guess so it depends on your organization right but normally when we talk about financial management, you would be looking towards the CFO office and then coming down that At stream. And maybe from the CIO, right? Running the technology aside of a company and young of how, how did we get here, right? How did you get from experimenting the cloud to a running most of our production
environments in the cloud? Yeah. And was it planned A lot of times? It was not. Yeah, it's Noble happened organically right. One team started. It was a success. And then another one and then another one and then came time for renewing. Some Hardware contract is a yeah I not going to need this anymore. I'm running the cloud. Now think of how many cases happen because this was sort of organic. Yeah, that people did move to the cloud. And procurement departments were
not really in that Loop, right? So procurement gets in between the chairs here, whereas they were super important making negotiating all these contracts. Making sure that the company is not being abused and so on. So on, they don't have even a role in what nobody needs to go through procurement. There are not usually in the loop. It's now in climate anymore. Yeah, but then all they know, No, sometimes. Is that a conflict is ending? Yeah, and you're going to renew that contract.
Nobody's going to use that anymore. Yeah. But the contract in capex is okay, you buy it, it stays there for a few years. Yeah. And then so how many of those happened? Because there wasn't a planned migration to the cloud or a plan Cloud adoption. And and this is something that is a consultant. I can see a lot that. Yeah, there are faces that just don't, Look for me in a holistic way.
Yeah I just concerned of one aspect and If you bring fin Ops into the picture, you were just trying to make sure that you don't forget, one very important aspect of this. Yeah. And phenotypes, as it runs through, it gets from this financial aspect, right? Cost of things but it also goes to the operation side. So eventually you move from determining? Are we sure that is a good use case.
That we moving to the cloud. We're going to make a things are going to be better for us. Maybe more cost-efficient there is this myth or that every if you move to the cloud, everything will be cheaper. Hmm. It might not be exactly the same. The means and how you, how you use his, right? And if you if you get there and if you really look at this aspect once you running there you continuously optimize right so you you it's never ending thing and you from a final
certain perspective. You can also Challenge and work with your engineering teams and developing teams to get them too. Could we do this now work and deliver value to the customers and make it cheaper? Yeah. Yeah. Or make it more efficient. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's, it's not about making cheaper for the sake of money. It's making more efficient. Yeah, it's making sure that you are extracting, all what you can, and being smart on the design level architectural level.
Yeah, so this is what I think it is. It's very interesting. You it over arches everything. Almost if full operating model, if you would From one optic. Yeah, I get white like companies might be struggling with this right? If they're already running somewhere on premise. As you mentioned kind of big bang shift to the cloud is not going to be as cost effective, right? Because they already invested in all this Hardware. Yeah. So then it needs to be a gradual migration.
But then which parts do you Migrate? How do you how do you face that out? Yeah. So Cloud providers you have the hyper skitters they normally have Programs to incentivize customers to migrate to the cloud. Yeah. And they usually ask to give incentives. They ask in return that you plan it, right? So, they don't require you to move. Make a big bang move. Yeah, they are. Actually, they ask you, build a business case. Yeah. And then go move to the cloud. Get active.
Sponsors within the company to make the make it happen. Yeah. And then build a plan. How do you going to make the shift? And once they're how you're going to transform that, right? So you can start with a simple lift and shift. So run exactly what you running here. They're just there. Yeah, yeah, in a virtualized environment data center. If you want to call it Cloud that it's We're simplifying definitely but you can start there and then you can. Okay now let's learn.
And let's go native, let's refactor our applications. Let's actually tear everything down. Yeah, and build a brand new one. Yeah. And this is how you start leveraging that. And then once you start again, making it happen and you make sure that it works, you make sure it's delivering some value to your end customers and then Okay, what can we do better here? Yeah, I get that kind of moving back to Phoenix as kind of a knowledge domain, right?
So we have the same exact scenario in a product team. That you have different competencies, right? Some people are a bit more aware of security aspects that need to be applied. When you're developing a product, some people are bit more aware of the operational, kind of thing, right? The devops mindset about visibility and robustness and all that. Do you think Finn Ops is also? And of a knowledge domain that should be within a team. Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, right. I think it's going to be just as Devops. Yeah, started to bring this programming and development knowledge together with operations knowledge, right? So there is no more. Oh, when I tested this the cold on my virtualized environment on my machine, it worked out. It's not working. On production is good for its, is the networking guy's fault? Yeah. It's not like they're so patients. Not me.
So. I think the same way this converged and it's it's almost expected that somebody working with Cloud. Can have some tissues t-shaped. Professional right. And there's a bit of both. I believe that this going to be another expectation. Maybe not yet but it's going to come. Nobody's going to ask people, to be phenomenal Specialists. Yeah. But they will ask people to have From, at least an architectural point of view, the notion of cost efficiency of India, workloads applications called
and this will be expected. And for now, I think this role is being in many cases, centralized either in one person for a whole Enterprise level organization sometimes, it's a small team and they go and As a task force, right? The identify where is the best place we can help with our knowledge. Yeah and they go to that team.
Did that unit that department? Whatever it is and they work together and if they do a good job, if they can scale Dirty by on these collaborations, this interactions. They are going to pass some knowledge to that department. They're working with the team, they were working with passing on. Okay. Is a best practice that these how we make sure that reserve some time on your Sprint planning. I make a okay. What can we improve from a cost
efficiency perspective? Yeah and how they scaled this even in a small team is by enabling visibility at all stores there. So you mentioned this earlier so usually they don't know that this is costing right? Yeah. And that's true. And this is where it starts in my Onion. So let's enabling visibility and that will make people whole. I didn't know that. Yeah, we are humans are exact funny creatures, right? Once you have that knowledge and once you see that this is happening.
Yeah. You somehow feel responsible, right? If you see something that all this is not going good, right? You see a trend, it's ever more expensive and to deliver the same thing. Yeah, seriously I'm not being really efficient here. Yeah. And then you start doing something to do to make it better. So, The Motto. I preach normally is awareness.
Yeah, drives accountability which in turn demands awareness because, you know, and then you going to do something about it and if you feel accountable about it, you you want to know again? How am I doing? Right. And then, that cycle goes on and on, and this is really positive for for companies, right, for organizations. Leveraging Cloud. Yeah. I I really like that that model, right? And I really like that, the role of Philips, there is to kind of kick that Kickstart that
awareness, exactly. People are not aware how you going to find that, you're going to find it somewhere in a blog post or, but is it applicable? And is it is it reliable or stuff like that? But if it's within your organization right within your environment, it's going to be in the back of your mind. If you look at something like on, maybe, maybe we should use this. Or does it need to be real time? When the requirement is real time is actually real time. Near real-time enough, right?
That could be a big haven't. So near-real-time is enough because even With you take any sort of monitoring in the cloud and we can see when something stops working, right? You, you know, it stops immediately at all, that, that can be real time with the billing side of cloud happens. There is a certain lag and it depends a bit on what type of service you're using within the cloud, some Services go as far
as billing on the millisecond. Yeah, which is - crazy ugly and some Services, go to the hour, so you can have anything in between. You can have a second, you can have a minute or intervals of 10 minutes or intervals of 10 seconds, sometimes it really depends and if there's so many ways. So so the information will always come with a lag. Yeah. And but this is fine as long as you, you get it information out there and you make people aware of it. You can expect a reaction. Exactly.
And if you don't make it visible. Yeah, don't expect a reaction. People might not even know that it's happening right now and it's is it. It's not about care. It's about focus and knowledge. So if I don't know what, what, what would I do? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Someone needs to kind of be a fire started in that way, but if you are, if we're looking at your past, you've probably been part of a task force, or you've seen kind of wear. The cost can be reduced the most within a few different
organizations, what? Usually kind of the trend, where can people really be more efficient usually from what you've seen and also how much can you optimize? Okay, so let me break this down the first. Yes, I have been in a lot of optimization. Projects or task forces. And yeah, what I? What identify is What needs to be optimized is the visibility aspect, right? Make sure that the information is there and transparency, right? If you don't get transparency through, it's going to be hard
to get people involved. Yeah. And you can do a lot from a centralized point of view but you cannot do everything. Yeah. With that said, when I look into optimization of services are normally three because components that can be optimized. Yeah. And those would be compute. And then storage. Yeah. And then networking. Okay. So that order yes, I would maybe it depends on the use case, of course, a lot. But if I have to generalize. Yes.
Okay. So compute is the most sought-after service exact Cloud. Yeah. So everything that we do demands compute power and there is a lot of compute power available in the cloud and there. Is a lot of flavors and there is a lot of ways of consuming that and is overwhelming. Yeah, so People tend to choose something and they stick to that. Oh yeah. And The pace of innovation in the cloud is so big and there is always something coming up and even if you're doing something
that is really efficient. Now, it might not be a month from now. Yeah. And it's important to keep an eye on that aside of making sure that you were using it properly. So, All three components yeah, in the cloud. Have one single aspect in terms of optimization which is one of the fundamental premises of cloud computing. Which is elasticity. So you pay for what he you need ya to use.
Yeah, and you, when you use it instead of all the time, the D use, when you use it is not I'm actively using my machine. Yeah, it's more when you run it right? You pay for for that as long as it runs. Yeah. You might not be using it but you're still paying for that because their runs in the background. Yeah, it's running in the fact that you're not doing anything with it, doesn't matter. You're running it. It's not available for somebody else. Any other customer of that cloud
provider to use it? Yeah, you're running it. You're paying for it. Yeah. Yeah, nobody is running it. It's okay. Is the cloud provider problem. But if it's not available to somebody to use because you're running, you're going to. So you pay for what we use, when you use it, it's more like when you run it and then you have to be sure that you're using it every time for every single moment that it is running. Yeah. Yes. And The, this concept of elasticity is not always fully
leveraged. Exactly. And this is one component that goes across because there's no better way to, to optimize, then in from a cost perspective, they're not using. Yeah, that's right. So you can write size things, you can make things. Okay, I have this machine and I could use that mobile version, right? A smaller version of that, it would be enough. The same amount of water would fit in that class. Yeah. And I'm still good, right? Yeah.
So these would be right sizing and these also moves a lot, but let's say there's no water at all. I do need. I don't need this, only the class. Yeah, so in the past, I okay, I bought this class so it doesn't matter. I'm not using it already paid for that. Yeah, now in the cloud you can just say, okay, I don't need it. Somebody else use it? Yeah, covid aside. But you do have to but you do have to be conscious of that, right? If you're still running.
It even though you're not using it, you're going to pay for it. So. Yeah. And and and it's about not only that it's only also about do I know that I'm not making the best out of this specific resource here, right? Do I have the tools to monitor, not only how am I doing in terms of cost, know how I'm doing terms of performers as well? Right. And in storage, it's, it's funny. We don't see so abstract, For us right now in the past you would have a huge sand environments. Right?
The other you you would store you have the Unis there. Whatever you use hard disks or any sort of device to store. Yeah flash wants doesn't matter. The point is there was something there at some point. This would be fully consumed and then you would have to buy another one. All right, we're clear. A up or make backups or nowadays is so abstract it. It seems we have virtually unlimited. Yeah feels like it right.
There is a cost for that so if you don't need that information anymore you need to make sure that this gets deleted. Yeah, otherwise you're going to pay for it forever. I probably mean this forever because I don't think cloud is going anywhere any soon. So, Think of a file. Yeah. An object and you put it in the cloud and you store it. It's a one megabyte. Yeah. And you use this once. You don't need it anymore, you could delete that but that's one
file. Yeah it's there that's how it starts things of think of millions. Yeah. Billions of objects right? And they are still there available for you. One API call away. Yeah. But nobody will ever make that easy. Like, oh yeah, I need to stay there, and if you cost you every single mom, every single month, and this is how things get done and you have tools and practices to to make sure that this does not happen. Yeah. And you create lifecycle management, right?
And then you make sure that. Okay I need this for one month and then I got to take new pictures of the same product and then I don't need these pictures anymore so you move them. To an archive, which is going to be cheaper. And you can say after a year, if I don't retrieve that from the archive, just permanently delete that. Yeah, and that's it. And the same for full volume
snapshot, or things like that. So, there is a lot of unused things in the cloud, and when you talk about storage, yeah. So when you talk about compute is more about the elasticity and right-sizing that when you talk about storage it's about unused and non-managed information. For how long it stays there
available fully available? Yeah. On the MS. Pink it's there and you can have in a cheaper storage category that will take one second to retrieve that same object and it's going to be less than half the price. Yeah it really reminds me of kind of a real life example of someone that probably has too much stuff in their house, right? At some point. It's not going to fit. Are you going to pay for a bigger house? Probably not. You can throw some stuff away.
Exactly. Great. Analogy. Yeah, it is and it's, it's also both things kind of speak to to what we have on the networking. Yeah, part. Because this is a cause that was sort of fixed. Yeah. In the past when you think about all the transfers that happen in an IT environment in the past, you would have your on-prem data center, right? Follow your discs, there your son environment, your networking devices, your computer's, the servers, or the end, The Edge Computers right there.
The users notebooks and everything and there is information trafficking all the time and everything running there. It's kind of it's for free right now. And if you need to send an email, well, you're already paying a fixed Bill to your data Communications provider to have, I do DSL or Fiber sort of connection, In your company and locate these paid, it's going to traffic through the internet but the price is paid right? And in the cloud that's not and you pay for everything that is
trafficking. Yeah. Especially if it's US versus the internet so it goes moves. So within your environment that's going to be fine and normally if you breach of some sort of boundary so You know, if it really goes out to the internet, then you're going to start paying these. Something people were not used to, and they don't even pay attention to that, but there is a big component of the cost of the cloud there.
So in imagine that when you when you tie all those things together, right within an organization, some aspects are going to go wrong. Some aspects are going to go right on average what would you say the the cost reduction has been for the organizations who have been involved in my my experience is that You can always find between 25 to 30 percent. Yeah, optimizations in the cost,
that's incredible. Yeah, and if you look at the size of this Market I just saw Heidi see I think in September mentioned that we would get to one point three trillion dollars in Cloud by 25. Yeah and currently Gardener says 400 billion four hundred eight billion yeah this Revenue of cloud. Yeah. For this year. Yeah. So that's a lot of money, 30% of optimization there. Yeah, then yeah, there is a big, big Market at a big big need for this. Yeah, I can imagine.
I mean, it's not going to come out of the box, right? Someone needs to really bring that awareness within either an organization and definitely within the teams that are using it. Because right now, if everyone had a credit card and your company owner, you're not going to feel comfortable. Yeah, but that is how it It is in the cloud kind of, it is take it to yourself, right? Take it to your home, you leave your home to, come to work and
you you turn off the lights? Yeah, you leave your work and you don't need that resource running in the cloud anymore. Turn it off. And then you're going to stop pay for that take ownership, right? Be that person and learn try to learn and be informed about that. Just the same way you had to learn new things when you start working in the cloud, right?
Yeah. And you try to challenge If it's not about saving money for the company is not about saving money for the company, it's about extracting value from the cloud. Yeah, delivering that value somewhere. Right? Find what makes you take? It's about sustainability. So if you're not using a resource running in the cloud provider data center, something's not being used and it's a, they're probably going to shut that down. Yeah. And it's going to be less carbon
footprint, exact? So find something that motivates you to think of that. Yeah. And Apply to your day-to-day. It starts small and it doesn't need to be a big thing. You have a team doing that from a central place? Yeah. And then you, you do your little part of it. Yeah, exactly. Make sure that you have the visibility ask that from your company, if you don't have it and start making a small changes, right? Yeah. I love hearing that because those small changes are going to add up, right?
And it's, those are really going to make the difference. In the same way the files would Stack Up and become a meaningful. Yeah. And throughout Time really hurt financials. Yeah, small changes will compound as well is that they will bring big positive impact and I think that's all technology is about, right? Yeah, make sure that yeah, awesome. I really like, kind of hearing about why you're passionate about Phillips in the first place. The kind of going into what it
is and what it? What does it mean? Exactly. And how our organization struggling with this and how is it evolving down to? Where can you optimize, right? The three, the three biggest Costs in compute storage and network. And then also when you've actually optimized right that 30 to 25 percent. That's a big slice money? Yeah, I think of how much you're doing every month. Yeah. And if you don't have the visibility ask for that, you should get it.
And then think of there is a business case, probably for you to start investing on this to have somebody to get specialized in this and to get your team's to spend some time doing that. So, yeah, go for it. Just do start small. Exactly cool. I want to thank you for coming. Well Michelle, I think you've had a watching you love talking about this. I really feel that, man. I I learned a lot, which is awesome. That's great, pleasure to be here and let's keep on going for
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