Life-Changing Authenticity, with Kat John

Okay, welcome to the show. Thanks for downloading the podcast. This is Better Than Yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations to make your day to day better than yesterday, every single week since twenty thirteen.

My name Joshia Ginzburg. I'm very glad you're here.

Ten years ago now, when I was struggling with my mental health, I really needed to be able to read a book that would really kind of lay out a step by step way that I could think about the problems that I was facing. And I couldn't find a book that was like the book that I needed. So I wrote one with the help of an eminent psychologist who specializes in act or accepting commitment therapy and with brilliant illustrations boys Truthless, also know as Campbell Walker. It's

There's also a fair bit.

In there about dancing to get the worries away, but we'll get to that right. Just before we get to my guest today, I forgot to mention that the next live show if you want to come check out the live show on the sixth of the July. We're at the Factory Theater in Merrickville with Story Club. We do this storytelling show every single month. Joining me is Marley Silva, Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Ugly, Phil Nadia Townshend, Zoey Norton Lodge.

Right.

So my guest today, Kat John is her name. She is fantastic. She's an authenticity coach, She's a speaker, she hosts a podcast.

Called Raw, Real and Relatable.

She's the author of the brand new book Authentic Coming Home to Your True Self. She do' mind having a bit of a zero fux given boogie on the socials either And I actually put together a playlist that you'll hear is talking about music and I'm put together an entire playlist you'll find link in the show notes. Because what I do love about Cat is she really devotes herself to sharing the message of how important it is to be authentic and helping people to live that way

John, thank you for coming pleasure.

I'm grateful, rightful you came, and you must be thrilled to have a.

Book under your belt. That done. It's quite the thing. You don't write it once, do you?

You don't write it once, No.

You got like fives you end up writing it, I reckon.

There were three passes in that. They were like, yeah, it's sort of there, nah, sort.

Of there nuh, And then it took me.

The third would go, we're actually put a mic on, and I dictated. I just started sharing what I would usually share, what I was trying to type out, but I was trying to make it too sophisticated. I was trying to make it sound smart. I was in my head about the penguin people. I've got to make it cool for the penguin people. I'm like, who the hell are these penguin people? So as soon as I put the mic on and dictated, I was like, that's what I look like.

Yeah yeah on paper?

Then it was good, right yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's fatiful.

It's tricky to be able to I mean, words are great. Our youngest is learning how to read them right now. They're very good for communicating ideas. But sometimes it can become a bit of a barrier. So it's wonderful we have tools like that, definitely, because somebody like you might not have been able to put that book out twenty years ago.

Without that tool. Correct, it's pretty good.

We are going to probably talk a bit about this because it is your bread and butter. If we were going to talk about being authentic, like what is for you? You talk about authenticity? How do you as a concept? How do you define it?

Yeah? I mean, look, it's a big concept and I think it gets thrown around a lot at the minute. It's kind of like the cool word authentic leadership or be authentic or be real or whatever it may be. You do you, you do you boo? I think is a hashtag that's been out for a bit, But I guess, to me, to me, what it is it's to be

That feels good?

Right?

What does it? Let's, for example, put it in a work context. What does being authentic like? What is showing up and being authentic at work look like?

Okay, I'll give you an example. So this morning I had a speaking engagement and typically before we speaking.

That corporate money you go get it. You don't make money selling books in Australia you make money. Talk about books in Australia.

This is true.

Oh tell me about it. My second book coming out August.

This is true, true fact.

So typically, before speaking engagements, this little part of me, which I call the ego, the part that keeps that tries to keep me separate from myself, my relaxed, at ease,

Right. So then I'll keep putting into my.

Evidence bank, my ego evidence bank, keep doing that because that's what gets you the tick, the approval, the head nod, the laugh, the whatever it may be. And then I'd be walking off that stage or walking away.

From here, going where was I in that?

Like?

Where was I in that? I wasn't there.

I was putting on something that I felt I needed to do in order to fill in the blank.

So that's how you talk about it in a work context. What about in a for example, in a relationship context, in particularly an intimate relationship.

Yep.

So before my husband.

Wow, I used to date and basically buried my relaxed, authentic self ten feet under.

I would go there.

Really kind of at the forefront, wondering who would they like me to be? Who would they like me to be? So if they like sports, I'd like sports. If they like to go fishing on the weekends, I love fishing too. Oh they love that soccer team, Sure, I love that soccer team. They'll go to the toilet and I'm googling that soccer team.

Is that moment I love it? Is that moment from coming to America?

What is your favorite food? Whatever you like?

Is that where you were loving?

Is?

Yeah? Because I'm thinking that Eddie Murphy having the conversation really black and Dog.

It's like, it's that but I under stand it.

Yeah, yeah, And so when they would come back from the bathroom, you'd be like.

Oh, yeah A c. Malan true? How good is Ronald?

Do love their uniform?

Great kit? I believe it's called Yeah, I get it?

Yeah, yeah, right, So that.

Puts the idea I'm guessing and I don't want to extrapolate too much from it, but the idea then is that you're putting on a front for this person, and what happens then if the relationship progresses, at some point you're going to show up and you're like, I don't really want to watch this game. I don't actually care about this, and then their.

Surprise going, well, what's wrong with you? This was fine three months ago?

Yes, because there is that moment after you stop shagging, when you actually have to start talking to each other, and that's all that stuff shows up. It's a difficult time to go through.

For everybody you like slam dunk. It's true though, It's absolutely true. It's absolutely true. And when I got together with my now husband, even when I met him, like, I'd done a lot of work on myself up until that point, but this particular area of my life when it came to love and relationships was.

My sore spot.

My deep, deep, dark, wonderful belief underneath that loves to mess with me is you're unlovable as you are, You're unlovable. And like I said, I've done a lot of work, and still when I met him, when we were dating, he'd be like, what pizza.

Do you want? Internally?

I don't want pizza externally, Perry Perry chicken please.

You know.

I wrote that story in my book because that's just how easily I went. I would just jump out of myself and I would go, I don't want to be a drainer.

I want to be easy going.

I want to be the kind of girlfriend that's just like, yeah, she's.

Such an awesome chick, she doesn't bust my balls. I want it to be that one.

That's an example of that, but again birthed from I believe I'm unlovable, my ego beliefs, my limiting belief believes I'm unlovable as I am so Perry Perry Chicken adds some extra sauce things.

So both of those exams. Let's just talk about the work one for a second. Yeah, there is an amount of inauthenticity that has been very beneficial to my career. All right, I could totally do that. Yes, of course, I'll see you Monday. The entire weekend spent learning how to use a bit of software or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, so that no one's career exists without that, fully, none of me being inauthentic to telling the person hiring me yep,

And that's why I said before.

Sometimes our personalities that get us into places and spaces and meetings, et cetera, they can be used for good. Right, So, like a hyperachiever, for example, if that is their persona that they have built that has gotten them across the line in many areas of life, amazing, if that gets them promoted, if that gets them ahead here or wherever good for you.

You know, it's when it starts to.

Dominate their life where they then keep chasing that at the expense of whatever that might be the expense of their family, the expense of listening to their soul, the expense of being able to rest, because they're just now so used to hyperachieving that they have to get the chase, they have to chase, they have to get the win.

What I talk.

About is when it becomes the leading role in our life that gets a little tricky.

Tell me about what we might be able to do to because this might be the first time someone's considered this, or they might have heard this, and God, no, no, no, I'm definitely authentic, and I'll ask it in this way just through I don't even care how it happened. But I know that I rarely get context clues from a situation that I'm in. Something's going in a good or bad direction? Right, Just notice inside my body, Ah, that's weird.

Ah, this is.

Usually my notice thing that something's not great here. Like I don't notice something sometimes I don't just where my brain is. Sometimes I don't know faces or emotion sometimes, but my body does, and so maybe that's the way to answer the question. But how might we explore and how a might being the feeling of inauthenticity show.

Up within us.

It's such a good question, and you pointed out just a really important one body awareness. So if before, you know, like, for example, me coming here, if I'm relaxed, if I'm good, if I'm just you know, fluffing up my hair and getting ready, et cetera.

Great hair by the way, like it's whatever's going on there, you know it's a perm. Well, now this is a thing that's as a perm supreme.

Thank you.

It's supreme, because I mean, I'm very lucky.

I'm nearly fifty one. I've got all my own hair.

That's pretty You've got Filipino Filipina going on here. So there's like a lot of follicle you can work with.

Pretty good.

They are thick follicles.

Be there's a joint.

I was actually thinking about it because you know, I'm in the mullet years, and I was asking.

You always ask them hair and makeup artists where should I go?

And they get there's a place, and it's in Haymarket and they only do Korean boy band mullets. It's the only thing they do. That's it. They just look after all of your ts boys, and that's the one haircut. Go get it.

I might have to be it's the one.

It's there's no like, there's no photos of like which one I want to seventeen?

Please? Wan? The shortback and eye is like, nope, you're getting that one. You get the BTS. That's it.

But they do perms, they perm they perm the boys.

I ask every year, I say to my hairdresser, are you are you with me for another year? Because what the hell am I going to do without you? And this perm it is. I appreciate the acknowledgment' thank you.

I can't remember what we're talking about before. We were talking about recognizing things now.

Were so yeah before.

If I'm there fluffing my hair, feeling good, feeling relaxed in the uber, feeling chill, and then when I rock up to the building and I notice, like I said before, if I'm holding my stomach, or if I'm feeling really tight in my chest, if I'm only breathing in the upper area of my chest and not deep into my belly, or if I'm clenching my jaw. If my shoulders are really tight, that's a really beautiful indicator of hey, hey, something might be going on here, and what is going

Is there an emotion there? Okay?

Is that emotion pizza last night? Is it still fucking with me? Or?

Am I scared?

Exactly? Exactly? I know it's going to be scared because now I.

Don't do very very fast or anymore? Am I like do? Okay?

So if I'm scared, then what story might I be telling myself? I'm I'm less than usher, I'm not as cool as Usher. What if I stuff up on this and it's like okay, cool? How can I get present again? How can I come back into my relaxed, at ease and natural self. And for every single person, that's going

I'm spent.

I've got nothing left in me, none of me is left intact. Right, So again I know that comes down to body awareness, but it's like, wow, how much did I give out?

And was that necessary?

And if it wasn't necessary, then why did I feel the need to give that much out? Again, it comes to what's the story going on in my head? What's the belief rattling around in there?

And what are some things we might be able to do to identify what that story is.

So like I write in my book and I didn't mean that.

Actually didn't mean that.

You can buy a PDF course always be closing.

My husband says that too.

There is an exercise in there called the ego clearing exercise, Right, so you know, that picture of the iceberg, So there's a little bit above the water and there's like a shit ton below the water. This is what it does. That's what the ego clearing exercise is meant to do. It's meant to deep dive into the stuff that goes on inside of your head. So part of it is what's the situation. Situation is I had an event. I've come away from it and I am completely spent. None

Right?

Because that's what the ego does. It puts a lot of meaning on ourself. That can it then compares ourself against others, and then it can have a pretty jaded view of life. So if we use that example, what the ego might be making it mean about yourself is as I am, I'm not enough. Everyone else seems to have that something they've got the factor. They got the sparkle. They were born with something that I don't have. I have to work doubly as hard as what they have to.

And so if that's.

What it believes about yourself and then about others, then usually that's when it will start to say life's unfair, life's a joke. It easier than me. Life's not, you know, supporting me. The universe doesn't have my back, whatever it might be. The next two questions are, if I remained focused on this, what's the outcome?

Right?

If I remain focused on I am not enough as I am, what's the outcome? The outcome is you'll never get to know who you are because you'll forever be thinking that you have to be more.

Than who you are.

And the last question of the exercise is what's my true next best step or what's my truth? Or where would I rather place my focus? Or what am I going to make matter that is more than this? And that's where the work begins. Right. Everyone's answer to that question is going to be very personal, and that I believe comes from our intuition or in a voice or maybe a therapist, maybe the you know, when you're out in nature and just something comes to you.

As an example, what could that next best step look like? In the example you've given of, like, I've been in a work thing and absolutely cooked by the end of it, way more than I normally am. It was so far from what I'm comfortable, and you've done all these things. What it's the final moment there? What's the next best step look like? What can it look like?

Yeah?

So what it can look like is, for an example, deeper self inquiry into this. So, for example, that deeper self inquiry might look like, how often am I doing this? How often am I doing this? Am I doing this more than I've cared to acknowledge? And if then that person starts to see a real pattern, a real pattern that has played across their relationships, their work, wherever it may be, then that next best step would lead to where is this come from?

Right?

Because some people don't know where their beliefs have come from. They don't know why it's there. They don't know what might have happened in childhood or whatever whatever it might be. Where did this belief come from? And did it come from watching my dad or my mum or my caregiver. Was it a societal belief that I just took on? Was it sibling rivalry and I thought I have to be better than my older brother or more important than my younger sister, whatever it might be another next best step?

If I can have this belief and not make.

It like the springboard that I behave from what life could be possible? How could it be when I walked into a room. How could it be when I ran a management meeting? How could it be when I speak in front of everyone here? To start tapping into some kind of realm of possibility?

I find it quite useful to then name that.

Yeah, what do you mean? Tell me more?

Well?

I give him dumb names. Yeah, really, I give him dumb superhero names. Well, Captain Catastrophe. He's fucking great at what he does. And so when I sometimes when I get that feeling. It's meant to take a while at first, but once you notice it, it's not like you can stop this stuff from happening, all right, no one, no, not at all. It is some of this stuff is so hardwired. It is like source code. You simply can't ride over. And that's okay if you know how to

It's just there.

As soon as you notice it, it's separate from you, and you find yourself a lot freer to make decisions that aren't based in that there. It can be tricky because it sometimes takes about twenty minutes for those hormonal floods to dissipate, and sometimes I've got to be very careful about how I'm breathing and stuff like that, so

It's a really great point, and I think that sort of two points. The immediate one that comes up is anger is an authentic emotion, right, same as sadness, shame, whatever, whatever like that is an authentic, real, raw natural emotion.

I reckon.

The second part is, especially in my world, coaching world, or the spiritual world, personal development world, it's this, this is a fine line that I dance with it, but there's always it's like better better better better better better better better better, do better, be better, positive, be better, be positive, be better, be happy, be positive.

Written on the podcast, mate, I know it does what it says on the box.

Hoops, not at all. It's quite design. I am here with you.

Yeah, yeah, no, I know you are. I know you are.

It's it almost becomes that's not that's not a very spiritual thing. Is it getting angry? That's not a very this.

Is the thing? Yeah?

Yeah, ah, that's so. I thought you went to a course and you know you're still angry.

Did you do that weekend thing.

You did? Ayahuascar? I thought you had some incredible revelation.

You wrote a book on authenticity, Like, how come you're still an angry little bitch?

Right?

Because I'm freaking human, you know, And and that.

That's what I talk about.

And again, I really don't mean to keep referencing the book to plug it. It's just what's in my book, right, because I know you're giving you hang.

But this is the deal, all right? Tickets to the Story Club you can check in the show notes.

Look at us doing our own ads?

How good? Else? Else is how good are we?

At the At the end of it, in the epilogue, I write about the Forever Dance. It's actually it's actually my favorite part of it because I talk about how one moment you're gonna feel like you're farting unicorn rainbows, that you're on top of the world. Everything's in flow, the universe has got your back. Your wife's being a legend, your kids are awesome, and you're like, oh my gosh, everything is on my side. And then someone cuts you off in traffic. Your wife then sends you a funny

Bit more noisy than what they usually would.

That's gnawing on your perfect alignment that you're having before, and you're not feeling so ace, and you start to get angry, and you start to get resentful, you start to feel ungrateful for your life.

And that's it, right, That is the dance.

Of being human, where we move from and in and out of authenticity.

There are layers to it, there are levels to it.

There's a sliding scale of it, and sometimes we are so close to it that it's like we've died and gone to heaven, and other times we are so far

Why would I want to listen to soft rock? Why would I want to listen to like Middle of the Road old Man music.

Middle of the Road, old man music. What would you listen to?

Oh, I'll tell you what I was listening to.

Go oh, okay, okay, whilst you were angry, or just.

Look, let's just say that my electric Harley Davidson and I had a really fun drive here.

Listening to It's good. If you're being cut off by an Audi Q seven registration, this is really useful.

Oh my gosh, that is hilarious.

Australian Australian kind of hardcore electronica from nineteen ninety five, using eight bit samples. It sounds like sandpaper. It's terrifying, but sometimes useful.

We all have our ill.

Keep derailing it.

I love it, but anger and in the context, I'm number two of four boys went to an all boys school.

Anger.

I don't think I ever saw healthy anger expression, okay, and what I when I saw anger expressed, it's something I did not like. And so expressing anger is something that I generally don't do.

If it does happen, I have so little practice at it does not go well.

Right, How can we, you know, perhaps help young men around their understanding what anger is and expressing it and processing it.

In my view, it needs to be exampled. Right. So similar to me growing up anger, my mom never expressed it. My dad didn't.

The way he did it was like, oh gosh, that's just so it was like icy and the energy in the room was just like, oh my gosh, this is horrible. And the way that he would voice things out.

And so it's interesting.

I've got two step daughters, they're eighteen and sixteen, and oh gosh, when you become a parent or bonus parent, I try to say bonus.

Parents, it's a it's a whole different road than that's another podcast. That's another podcast series.

Oh my gosh, I would happily talk on that one.

I learned a lot.

About my stuff that I thought was neatly tight and packed away and then they.

Just go flickick CLICKI clickick click.

So when I come if I come back to the point of exampling it, when I get angry, I oh my gosh, I internalize it, and it's like I I se out the whole house. The whole entire energy of the house gets warped, and no one knows what to do. They're walking like, can I go here, can I step here? Can I talk to her? Can I not talk to her? And I started to notice I was actually just repeating what my dad did, which is not something I felt proud of.

When I was doing.

It liberally didn't happen.

Automatic.

So what I have done to be an example is that when that happens, because it is literally seconds seconds where my body just goes head goes bang, I have learned and learning continually to communicate when I'm like that, And it is so freaking hard to just say I'm not okay right now. I just said a minute, it's actually got nothing to do with you or reengage soon, right.

How does you know an eleven year old or a twelve year old deal with that?

Surprisingly, these two girls, they're freaking legends, you know, I know in age, you.

Think they're only eleven, they're only twelve.

They love that level of authenticity, right, And that's authenticity.

It's being real, it's being real like in that moment, this is where I am.

This is where I'm at, and I'm owning it, and I'm not proud of it. And that's what my younger stepdaughter says to me. She says, she calls me kitty. She says, the reason why I never stay mad at you whenever you get like that is because you own up to it.

Is because you own up to it.

And sometimes I actually can't muster the strength to get the words out of me physically. So then we've got a group family text message. I'll send them a message and I'll say, I know you can feel where I'm at right now. This is what's actually going on. It's got nothing to do with you. Just give me a moment.

Same thing and that's it, as you would and I say it all the time, like the hardest thing about parenting, it's not the sleep. It's not done it. They don't do what you tell them, but they do everything you show them. And so you're the one that has to do any changing if you want them to do anything. And intense part of you know, speaking about processing and doing doing that work is like anger is a is

Ye, just taking a quick break from cat back in a moment.

We talked about, you know what it is to you, you know, to be authentic a work in a relationship. Ways that we might identify why is it important to find our authenticity and the distance between that and the experience we're actually having, or things where choices we're making.

What are some things that can happen to us if we are out of that alignment?

And more are what are some ways that might show up as a way of coping with the distance between now authentic self and the life that we're living.

Well, that's a big question coming back to one of your questions that you said just then about why is it important in my view when we are not in touch with ourselves, not in check, not in June, not close. Like literally, we are creating lives and outcomes of our

Right.

Sometimes we need that. Sometimes we need those full blown Gnali wake up calls where maybe along the way we haven't listened. There's been these nudges, There's been people along the way they're like, is this really kind of where you want to go? We've heard that in a voice, and we're like, what the hell is out? I don't want to listen to that, and we keep We think we're going to Japan, but we end up in Antarctica. Why is it freezing? Why is it cold? Why am

There is no Ramen?

There is no Ramen?

What is this? Where is my bullet train? Why is there no B day on the bullet train?

Oh my gosh, I love how your brain works.

True though, you don't know what actual technological enhancement of life is until you have used a Toto B day at three hundred and five kilometers an hour between Kyoto and Narita Airport, Like this is azing. Just the push a button, I know, and I'm doing three hundred ks an hour as Mount Fuji is out the window and.

See, wouldn't you prefer to be there? Then Antarctica with.

A clean bottom. It's it's amazing, it's amazing.

Now that's the dream, that's that's where we want to be. We want clean eating ramen in Japan on.

The Just push that when you go to Japan. Just push the button. Just push the button. Don't be afraid far out.

And this is where have you heard of the enneagram before? What is the So the enneagram are nine different personality profiles. It's this beautiful way of seeing our personalities in action.

Like I was sharing before and what we were talking about before.

Sometimes our personalities are really awesome and they can get us into call places, spaces, et cetera. And then other times when they are the leading a leading man woman in our life, not so great. So there's the reformer, which is about being a perfectionist. There's the helper, people pleaser, the achiever, the individualist, the investigator, the challenger, the peacemaker. And I love I love that work. I love that work because, like I was sharing before, there's a sliding

Is a Mary.

I don't have needs, I don't need your help. I'm good, I'm fine. Don't cook for me, don't clean for me.

I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you.

In the back of them, they have got expectations that are building up that they don't know about. If they're unaware they're doing, they're doing there being everything for everyone whilst building up this expectation pile building up resentment.

That box is getting very very very very full.

And if they don't get back the amount of love that they're giving out, they ain't happy, right that anger comes out, So they deny their anger. They don't experience anger. They're a positive person, they're a happy person. And then they get pissed off and they get miffed. And if they dedicate their life to that being a marty being pissed off, being a marter being pissed off, where do they get to live, Like, when do they get to live?

What do they actually want? What would they actually like?

What actually is important to them those questions, and that's just for one particular personality type never get asked. And to me, have you read the book The Top Five Regrets of the Dying.

Yeah, she's a former palliative care nurse. Yes, who looked after people for quite a long career. Yes, and just asked the same questions of the people that came under her care.

And they're pretty standard.

Pretty standard.

It's not I really wish I scrolled through my phone more. It's not that I can guarantee it.

I know.

Yeah.

And it's not that I lived for everyone else. It's not that I worked the hardest. It's I wish I lived a life more true to me. I wish I allowed myself to be more happy. I wish I didn't work so hard. I can't remember the other two. There's top five, but I can't remember the other We ate more.

Fiber didn't get so far behind on Survivor because when it's like it's been a week and the tribal cons will make any sense because I don't know the ramifications of what's been going on and now I'm like ten hours in, I've got such a time lag.

That's probably one of the answers she got, that's it, it'll be mine. But yeah, so it's it's understanding like.

What kind of life you end up with If you go between Marta and pissed off Marter and pistol Marter and pissed off, you'll find yourself in this situation where like the pain of your day to day life might be so great yep, you might need things outside of yourself to manage that.

Correct, and that can start to become quite unhealthy.

Correct, And then we get to the end of our life, like she talks about in her book, and wonder why we did that?

Why did I do that? Why did I spend my life on that?

For each particular personality type, it'll be different. So, for example, there's an achiever in there. They're going, they're going, they're doing, they're doing, they're being They're like, they're being going and being for everything in order to feel like they're enough, in order to feel like they're valid, in order to feel like they've got a place in the world, and

What do you think needs to happen if people might be listening to this going, I don't know. I'm fine, it's everybody else. What kind of needs to happen? How do people get to that day for a moment without meeting you in a cardiac careward?

You know what, some people might not right.

I know people in my circle who have got parents who are older, who have had multiple heart attacks, multiple stents, strokes, and they're back at it, and they're back at it and they're back at it. And my dad really bravely said to me one day, I commend you for the work you do on.

Yourself because I could never do it.

Wow.

And as much as I'd like to do it, I think I'm too scared what I'd find out right authentic?

Yeah, yeah, that was his truth.

He was being very real, and that actually really shifted my perspective because before that I was like, come on, just change your life, just do this and do that and you'll feel better and you won't be so angry, and la la, la la la. It was at that point I had a different kind of respect for people who are like, still going, still going, no matter what, no matter how much the universe is trying to shove a wake up call in their face.

I don't know.

There are some people that maybe just won't wake up to it and don't want to, like my dad, and I've got to respect that.

I know some people out there might be listening.

They're like, Oh, if only my parent would be like this, if only my parent would change, then they would be healthier, and you know that they would live a better life and they could have more ten more years. And we also have to come back to remember each of us are here for our own individual experience, and we get like we get the power of choice.

But as you mentioned, it is it is an ongoing form of maintenance for me. All this this kind of stuff has been happening largely in the last fifteen years, which is no mistake that it coincides with getting sober.

But you know, if I look back at.

The person you know that I used to be, it was almost unrecognizable. And I wonder, because, let's say, for example, or someone's listening to this, I don't know there mid twenties, late twenties, what what does that catch on look like versus you here today mid twenties.

I had just healed myself from brain surgery chronic pain without any medication, which was gnally.

I'm assuming there was some medication with the brain surgery part.

Yes, okay, good, yeah, yeah, yeah, after a.

I mean you can dry but yeah, my white blood I'm trusting my white blood cells with this one here, but maybe not with.

Not an open wound. No, no, no, yeah.

Look, back then, I was out partying, I was out taking a lot of drugs, running away from my past or running away from whatever hurt internally. And yeah, I had a body full of chronic pain registered nurse like, becoming overweight, popping pills from panatoll to oxycodone to valium to try and sleep pretty much all the time. But at twenty five, yeah, that was That was the first year I was chronic pain free after six years.

And but prior.

To that, I was overweight, very very very mentally dark, really really dark. Being told that I might just have to manage this for the rest of my life was the worst thing I could have heard, but the best thing, because this stubbornness inside of me just said, fuck that this is I will not accept this. I want to accept this from myself. I want to accept this from that surgeon. I must find another way.

I was very much the same with when I was on the antipsychotics and everything, getting told note, yeah, this is kind of this, you know, this is what it is. I was like, what the fucky? This is every day? I'm just my insulance. I'm just going to put on like a kilo a week and til what I know, I ran out of clothes. And I literally said the same thing, like, if this is what every day looks like, you know what?

Fuck that. I'm going to do everything I can to not be this. But it's not that the work is.

It's that the easier path to take was to just do that what they were saying, which is fine if you want to do that, and I understand it might be too much to lift, but yeah, I just I just refuse to accept.

Really only all day.

Yeah no, I don't want that, I know, but.

It's you kind of do have to come to that pain point, don't you.

You kind of have to come.

To that point to your knees. Yeah, to your knees.

And in my case, I had to understand that, oh, I'm the reason I'm down here, that's the one.

You're all the heart like those dark Knights soul.

Yeah, it's true, though only when you get to that point. Only when you get to that point does any of this actually work. When you're doing it for somebody else, it doesn't work, but it is wonderfully. There's are questions you can ask yourself quietly by yourself. No one else has asking these questions. You can, you know, you can be the one that what is my actual responsibility? Did I choose to stay in that job? How long have I chosen to stay here because it's.

Easier than not going. No one else has to know.

But that's when you can have those moments to ask yourself those questions. And Yeah, one last thing I have noticed, just anecdotally through you know, researching this interview, that moving and dancing is a part of your life. And I have recently had some experience in this space. So how did that come into your life and what do you get out of it?

I dance from when I was a kid, it's when I'm from the age of four.

I just loved it.

Having been a dance dad. Part of your father's annoyance is starting to make sense to me, because.

To watch everyone else except your kid is very annoying to see the same dance sing time, good show, exactly, exactly, exactly do you dance as a kid.

I danced as a kid.

But also in the Filipino culture like dance, music, singing. It's just they know how to dance, they know how to sing. Except my mom can't sing, haha, but she can dance. My gosh, you can dance. So I danced from when I was a kid, and I just I loved it.

It was very joyful for me.

Then dance I was up in high school, dance when I was out partying and taking drugs and having a great old time. And then this chronic pain stopped everything in my tracks. What it gave me, what I loved about it, well, what it gave me before was joy. Right when I was doing choreograph dance. Have you heard of five rhythms? Oh my gosh, that is cool. I remember I was doing this chakra empowerment course when I was in my like who the hell am I will let me find myself phase and one of the pieces

That's what it gives me.

And so now you use that through the day as part of you mentioned at the start of our conversation about being bodily aware. Does you know if you're in a point where there's a I don't know, like a peak of you know, some sort of hormonal release in your body, were like, eh, can you find just like whacking out a couple of bars and a quick little boogaloo.

Will full und your game.

It's usually I always choose emotive music songs where like this is me from the Greatest Showman Good where I don't quite sometimes I don't quite know how I'm feeling. And then if I put a song like that on, or some some of Pink's songs that are a motive that just do the speaking for me, and then there's just this rush of emotion that comes and it falls out of my eyes in the form of tears, and I'm like, thank you.

I don't know what that was. I don't know what that is there it is.

I prefer just whacking on some motown or some stacks Stacks or stax recks towards myself.

Get a bit of Sam and Dave. Hold on, I'm coming on.

I'll do the whitest white man dance to the two of the heaviest brothers. That's a song all about rooting, but it made it onto the top ten that has in the past. That is really like turning literally turning a light switch on and off for my emotional state, and it's really useful. So I thoroughly recommend that people get out of this podcast, open up some sort of music thing and just give.

It a couple of minutes.

We should create a playlist.

Yeah, I'll put I'll put a play You put a couple of tracks and I'll put a couple of tracks on.

We'll work it in the show notes. How about that? As long as as well as a.

Link to catch On's Brandy book available now on People in Random Hills.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Thanks for going pleasure.

That was Cat John, How great is kat?

If you want to have a boogie, If you want to boogie the hevgbs away, you can find a link to the blowlist. You'll find that in the show notes, along with where you can get tickets to the next live show of story Club.

And where you can pre order the books.

So what now? What? Thank you so much for getting around the show. There's also a link to the substack in there. Thanks Adam Bunch for producing this episode your Ace. I hope you have a fantastic week. If you do, buy the book, screenshot your proof of purchase and email me Sandos your email at gmail dot com and I'll.

Shoot you back something to say thanks. I'll see her on Monday.