00:00:00 Intro
Whether your beer is in a bottle can or glass kick back and relax, it's better on draft.
00:00:17 Ken
Welcome everybody to episode 332 of the veteran Jeff podcast. My name is Ken. Thank you so much for joining us. I truly appreciate it. I do.
00:00:26 Ken
Apologize for the.
00:00:28 Ken
Late start, but we are here. We are drinking beer starting with Dan. Dan, what do you got?
00:00:34 DAN
Hey. Yeah, we're almost halfway to the best number out there. I've got 2 beers here with me tonight. I've got a candy bar of milk stout from. Oh, God, I lost my train of thought here. Now, from Fate Brewing, I've got a cookie exchange milk stout from Great Lakes.
00:00:51 Ken
Wendy, what about you?
00:00:53 Wendy
I am drinking this cream orange wheat. I don't even know where my camera is today from Great Lakes, which I tell you I wait all year for the cranberry ginger ale to come out. So this is fantastic in my opinion.
00:01:09 Ken
I guess I will round out the circle. I've got a Great Lakes Brewing Christmas ale ale with spices and honey. If you can't tell based on the fact that all three of us are drinking Great Lakes Brewing as well as the name of the show we have Michael back on from.
00:01:11
There we go.
00:01:23 Ken
Great Lakes Brewing, why don't?
00:01:24 Ken
You reintroduce yourself to everyone. Tell us.
00:01:28 Ken
So what you do with the organization?
00:01:30 Michael (GLBC)
Sure thing. So I work, I report through marketing. My job is kind of.
00:01:35 Michael (GLBC)
Traditional marketing stuff, so if you subscribe to our newsletter much of brew, that's me. But I am also our beer educator at the brewery. Always wanted to be a teacher and kind of had some stints in the Brew pub and as a tour guide and was kind of able to create my own role as the beer teachers. So I do all of our staff training.
00:01:54 Michael (GLBC)
Anyone from dishwasher all the way up to the?
00:01:58 Michael (GLBC)
CEO I had our current CEO on the first day for a little training sesh. I work with business partners like, you know, our wholesalers and key retailers, do some fun stuff for the public. A lot of classes at the brewery, and then I'm just a beer nerd. So I hop on podcast with you guys and nerd out.
00:02:15 Michael (GLBC)
About beer and.
00:02:16 Michael (GLBC)
I do all our sister on stuff too. The program is nice.
00:02:19 Michael (GLBC)
Of the.
00:02:20 Michael (GLBC)
To tell me that I passed advanced Cicerone back over the summer. I don't know if I believe that still, but got that in the bag and I do all of our training for like certified candidates and things like that.
00:02:31 Michael (GLBC)
And I had to teach you guys, I'm drinking a little guy.
00:02:34 Michael (GLBC)
From the brewery.
00:02:36 Michael (GLBC)
The Juicy double IPA. So that's what I've got.
00:02:41 Ken
Perfect. Thank you so much for coming back. I do appreciate you taking the time to chat. The first question I kind of want to.
00:02:49 Ken
Ask you regarding your.
00:02:52 Ken
Theory, when it comes to teaching beer, what are some, I guess, maybe give us a little class. What are some general misconceptions? You know, the fun ones you like to throw into your training that people have about beer or even Great Lakes?
00:03:03 Michael (GLBC)
Brewing. Oh, sure. Well there.
00:03:05 Michael (GLBC)
There are plenty of them so.
00:03:09 Michael (GLBC)
When it comes to general beer, one of the biggest things is the myths. So.
00:03:15 Michael (GLBC)
It especially like well crafted beer is something that so many people are passionate about and and have stories about. I guess this applies for Great Lakes too.
00:03:25 Michael (GLBC)
But I'm like a philosophy guy and history guy too, so.
00:03:29 Michael (GLBC)
I'm very much.
00:03:29 Michael (GLBC)
A stickler for making sure we have.
00:03:31 Michael (GLBC)
Our facts straight and everything.
00:03:33 Michael (GLBC)
So the story of IPA would be a classic one, and this is not my work, you know Martin Cornell and great writers like that have written extensively about this, but everyone says that IPA.
00:03:45 Michael (GLBC)
And kind of invented out of the blue as the solution for shipping beer to India from England because the beer is spoiling on the way. There are of course some truth to that, but.
00:03:58 Michael (GLBC)
Every other beer leaving England together, any colony throughout the British Empire was also being highly hopped and as much as I'm sure the one guy Hodgson would love to have credit for that, everybody was doing that. So the bus and the Little Miss I asked the question, who knows how IPA was created and then they tell the story.
00:04:19 Michael (GLBC)
And then I say.
00:04:20 Michael (GLBC)
Fun fact, not true when it comes to Great Lakes, we have kind of for the drink. The beer that you're drinking right now. Christmas sale.
00:04:30 Michael (GLBC)
It's our most full of beer.
00:04:34 Michael (GLBC)
It is, amazingly enough, our top selling beer and because of its prevalence for us and because it's around the holidays and it's 75 ABV and sometimes people drink and they're not used to that and.
00:04:47 Michael (GLBC)
They're all sorts of.
00:04:48 Michael (GLBC)
Legends around this beer that are just also totally not true.
00:04:52 Michael (GLBC)
Like the AB used to be higher.
00:04:54 Michael (GLBC)
Used to be 12%, your tolerance probably wasn't quite as high 10 years ago as it is now.
00:05:02 Michael (GLBC)
You know the recipe changes every year. Not quite. We use, you know, 20 lbs of cinnamon and ginger per batch, and it's all real stuff. So there's flavored drift year by year. So and and I do it in a in a nice way. You know what I mean? But it's fun to bring up the stories that people are so attached to and be like actually there's.
00:05:22 Michael (GLBC)
This is the reality of what's going on, so it's a lot of fun.
00:05:26 Michael (GLBC)
Let alone all the actual nitty gritty of the brewing process and things like that.
00:05:32 Ken
Well, you you brought up an interesting point regarding Christmas Ale. We have the exact same phenomena when it comes to Bella's beer. Everyone talks about how bells Oberon changes every year and when we had John Mallett on the show a few years ago, he told us they do it just to **** with everybody.
00:05:52 Michael (GLBC)
Totally what we do too, right?
00:05:52 Ken
Obviously, obviously that's that's not the the true, honest.
00:05:56 Michael (GLBC)
If now let's get it, then it's cool. Yeah, right. Yeah.
00:05:58 Ken
And that's that's not the true, honest reason, but how do you come across when when you get those people who are adamant cause you're on social media, you're on marketing, you're talking to these folks, they're adamant Christmas ale tasted different Christmas ale. Like, how do you address those types of people when they're so easily disproven factually? But no matter what?
00:06:07 Michael (GLBC)
Oh yeah.
00:06:18 Ken
Can't get through to them.
00:06:19 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, humor is the key, I think, especially when you're in person, it's it's tough to convey humor.
00:06:26 Michael (GLBC)
Via you know your.
00:06:27 Michael (GLBC)
Your Facebook feed and stuff like that, so there's only so much we can do in situations like that, but.
00:06:32 Michael (GLBC)
When people are coming down to the brewery and I just had a couple of classes the the past two Wednesdays centered around Christmas sale and then our other holiday beers. So we've got going on.
00:06:41 Michael (GLBC)
Cookie would be one of them.
00:06:43 Michael (GLBC)
And you know, I bring it up like people would ask the question, but I just kind of anticipate it. And I always talk about those topics in a in a humoral way because one, it's just beer, you know, so it's it's nothing to get overly worked up about.
00:06:58 Michael (GLBC)
And the worst thing you can do, especially someone working like on the supplier side, someone with the actual brewery is like to come off as snobby and things like that. So, and they're honestly, I truly. I've been at Great Lakes for 11 years now and I worked on the service side. So I heard this stuff literally all day, every day.
00:07:18 Michael (GLBC)
For a good 5-6 years of my career and I could be jaded about it and stuff, but the fact that people care enough about.
00:07:28 Michael (GLBC)
The beer that they have, these strongly formed incorrect opinions, but still strongly formed opinions I think is amazing and so I always just approach it with some humor and and having fun about it. I think that's just generally a good way of going about education. All my best teachers when I was growing up.
00:07:48 Michael (GLBC)
Cracked, you know, ridiculous jokes and and and made the experience something that was very lively and that that's why I wanted to go out and be a teacher.
00:07:57 Michael (GLBC)
I didn't think it would.
00:07:58 Michael (GLBC)
Be a deer, but I think that's really important.
00:08:01 Michael (GLBC)
No matter what the topic is.
00:08:03 Ken
Well before I pass it off to Wendy, why don't you give us a little rundown on the Christmas ale, the ale that I'm drinking 7 1/2% lot of spice, a lot of honey. As it says on there. So you're getting sweet along with the spice. What are the tasting notes that I'm looking for when I'm drinking this beer?
00:08:22 Michael (GLBC)
Yep, Christmas sale is it's.
00:08:25 Michael (GLBC)
It really is. Anchor was the first anchor had as with many other styles out there and rest in peace anchor and all that bummer that they closed earlier in the year, but they they were the Trail Blazers for so many of us. But for us it a lot of people kind of look to our version of a Christmas sale kind of like it's the benchmark and we just.
00:08:44 Michael (GLBC)
Say that because we see.
00:08:46 Michael (GLBC)
A billion other different options out there that have some sort of similar spice profile of anything that evokes the holidays. So for us it's cinnamon, ginger and honey. Some people use some nutmegs, some people throw, like fruit peel. In there you can use adjuncts like molasses and all that. But for us in particular.
00:09:05 Michael (GLBC)
What's key is it's got the ABV, so it's 75 and just kind of like in October fest like an October Fest, beer is brewed four parties and festivity.
00:09:17 Michael (GLBC)
So it is by nature slightly higher in ABV. It's the same thing with holiday beers because it's it's even more of a festive time. So the 75V is key, but.
00:09:28 Michael (GLBC)
It's not too full.
00:09:30 Michael (GLBC)
It's a drinkable beer, so that's something that's very, very key, not a sipper. And that honey really helps dry the beer out. It drives the AV up without adding too much body, right? Because we're not. We're not pulling a lot of proteins and stuff from grain and then cinnamon and.
00:09:50 Michael (GLBC)
The key there is that both of those spices are present, but they're not going to be overbearing, so we don't want to have like when I have a a version that's a little too heavy-handed on the spices, I think like big red gum or something. It's just like it's like cinnamon all over my my palette and I'm like.
00:10:07 Michael (GLBC)
You know, super drying. That's way too much, but it obviously has to be there. So the key is for those three elements, the honey and the cinnamon and the ginger to kind of work and this really.
00:10:21 Michael (GLBC)
Balanced. I hate using the word balanced because it's easy to abuse it. But.
00:10:26 Michael (GLBC)
It's true, they need to be judiciously used so that there's a good balance there to keep that beer drinkable while still evoking the memories of the holidays. So that's pretty much what you get it's it's gingerbread cookies, grandma's house, all that stuff in liquid form.
00:10:44
To keep it simple.
00:10:47 Ken
I don't know about your your grandparents. My grandparents were always Christies. That was the the cookie sweet of choice. So we got a lot more powdered sugar than spice, but.
00:10:57 DAN
There we go.
00:11:00 Wendy
So I want to go back to a little bit of the educational app because I really had a lot of fun. I I love learning and I love history, so I had a lot of fun on your website, like trying to figure out what's going on there. And I saw that that back in June you guys had.
00:11:20 Wendy
Hap College, that paired beers that reflected the spirit of the city's baseball eras. That was such an original idea. How? What did you come up with?
00:11:30 Wendy
Something like.
00:11:30 Wendy
That so?
00:11:33 Michael (GLBC)
And the Hope College is my little baby there. So I'm glad you guys saw that.
00:11:38 Michael (GLBC)
That particular class is a ton of fun. We partnered officially with the Guardians for a couple of years as official craft beer, but we still have a partnership not in in that larger form, so we could continue doing events with them and they have an archivist and historian.
00:11:59 Michael (GLBC)
Who works for the organization? Jeremy Feeder, who's a great dude, and he loves beer, which is great. And I love baseball. I get to like 30 Guardians games a year. So it was a natural fit for us to kind of concoct some sort of event together. And we are such a historically.
00:12:18 Michael (GLBC)
Focus Brewery partially because we've been around for 35 years. That's why I got the little 35 class going on right there.
00:12:26 Michael (GLBC)
But also the the Conway brothers, who own the.
00:12:28 Michael (GLBC)
Company are are huge.
00:12:29 Michael (GLBC)
History fans. So there's a lot going on there for for this to make.
00:12:32 Michael (GLBC)
Sense. And we basically sometimes use a little artistic license with stuff, you know. So he's bringing in all the cool stuff from the guardians, like helmets and jerseys and things like that. And I'm like.
00:12:46 Michael (GLBC)
How can I fit this beer into the theme basically so?
00:12:50 Michael (GLBC)
But it worked.
00:12:50 Michael (GLBC)
Out really well, you know, we won.
00:12:53 Michael (GLBC)
A couple of World Series.
00:12:55 Michael (GLBC)
Far too long ago, the longest drought in professionals in professional baseball right now, by the way, everyone out there so but in the early years we won a couple of World Series so Dortmunder.
00:13:06 Michael (GLBC)
Gold, we kind.
00:13:06 Michael (GLBC)
Of went from there.
00:13:08 Michael (GLBC)
There's a great time we had 8085 people packing the tasting room for that event right there.
00:13:14 Michael (GLBC)
It was a fun one.
00:13:17 Wendy
So what other types of classes are you going to do? Are you going to do other?
00:13:20 Michael (GLBC)
Things similar to that, yeah. Hopefully. So. Right now the Guardians partnership is great and we just moved on this past year to partner with the Cavs with the basketball team. So we'll see if we can kind of cook something up.
00:13:33 Michael (GLBC)
With them, we do a lot of.
00:13:36 Michael (GLBC)
More traditional like beer education classes. So I mentioned I was just doing some style history classes, so looking at what is the winter warmer like? How did this style come to be like? Why are there so many beers out there that have spices?
00:13:53 Michael (GLBC)
And so on.
00:13:55 Michael (GLBC)
One of my teammates at the brewery who helps, he's kind of key with.
00:13:58 Michael (GLBC)
Our sensory program.
00:14:00 Michael (GLBC)
He does a class where we take some off flavors.
00:14:04 Michael (GLBC)
But people love it. I don't get it, but people love coming in and tasting the bad flavors and stuff. So do our staff.
00:14:14 Michael (GLBC)
But the the most fun thing that we've been doing lately is partnering with local businesses and doing pairing. So we had a local sausage, local butcher come in.
00:14:27 Michael (GLBC)
And she brought in four different sausages. And we I paired up four different beers with those.
00:14:34 Michael (GLBC)
We did a beer cocktail making class with the local distiller.
00:14:39 Michael (GLBC)
Beer and cheese and then the one that I was most proud of is we did a beer and ice cream pairing class.
00:14:46 Michael (GLBC)
And it totally worked. I actually what I loved about those classes is that I learned so much from.
00:14:56 Michael (GLBC)
The butcher and from the ice cream maker about what they do with their process and the pairings really like.
00:15:02 Michael (GLBC)
Just pop for all those classes.
00:15:04 Michael (GLBC)
So those were a really good time and and partnering with local businesses just makes it that much better since we're still like kind of a family and family run, family owned and independent business ourselves.
00:15:16
OK.
00:15:16 Wendy
It's actually a good segue into. I see that you guys are also employee owned.
00:15:22 Michael (GLBC)
Mm-hmm. We are sure that started five years ago in 2018. We do this annual kind of company retreat day type thing.
00:15:23 Wendy
Can you try that a little bit?
00:15:34 Michael (GLBC)
So we showed.
00:15:35 Michael (GLBC)
Up that day more or less as as normal. Yeah. I mean, like, as normal as it can be for a company wide retreat type thing, right? But.
00:15:44 Michael (GLBC)
Showed up and.
00:15:45 Michael (GLBC)
Did our usual things. Looking back at the past year plans.
00:15:48 Michael (GLBC)
For the future.
00:15:49 Michael (GLBC)
Year and what's going on, you know, give out some awards to staff and things like that and then something like the owners at the end of the day kind of got up on the stage and.
00:15:59 Michael (GLBC)
There was a certain area going on and they they made the announcement that they were forming an ESOP. So certainly a pivotal moment for us that was actually our 30th anniversary five years ago, five years ago, so.
00:16:13 Michael (GLBC)
What it is right now is it.
00:16:17 Michael (GLBC)
It's not a governance thing, so we're not up there literally running the show day by day. Pat and Dan still have.
00:16:25 Michael (GLBC)
Primary ownership of the company. They employ a leadership team, a CEO, Mark King, and, you know, CEO, CEO Stephen Powell's and and other people on the C-Suite and stuff like that. So it's a huge benefit to to us as employees, just like extra money in the bank for retirement and things like that, but.
00:16:45 Michael (GLBC)
The Conway is also founded Great Lakes in 1988 and.
00:16:50 Michael (GLBC)
If you founded a brewery.
00:16:51 Michael (GLBC)
In the 80s, that means you're not.
00:16:54 Michael (GLBC)
That young anymore? I won't say that. They're old, just in case they watch this. Right. So there is a little bit.
00:17:03 Michael (GLBC)
Of a succession plan built in there too, because they won't be around forever. And as we know from.
00:17:11 Michael (GLBC)
Larry at Bells and many other breweries, right? Yet the brewery has to go somewhere. When those guys aren't there anymore. So right now we have that option of of being these stops, should that make the most sense for the company when PAT and then end.
00:17:18 Wendy
Right.
00:17:26 Michael (GLBC)
Up stepping away.
00:17:28 Michael (GLBC)
They've got some time, though. They're still there very then.
00:17:32 Wendy
So, 35 years, huh?
00:17:35 Wendy
What did you guys do to celebrate this year?
00:17:38 Michael (GLBC)
We did a bunch. We did a couple of fun beer releases we had, so the anniversary is in September.
00:17:47 Michael (GLBC)
And we decided this year to lean into our first 2 beers. So Dortmunder Gold Lager and Elliot S Amber Lager were the first two brewed in the the pub system here in Cleveland for, you know, forever. But really since the beginning.
00:18:03 Michael (GLBC)
For door butter, all we did was same beer.
00:18:08 Michael (GLBC)
But we put it in the retro packaging, kind of like, so I'm wearing right now. This is merch that's themed based on.
00:18:14 Michael (GLBC)
Our older logo.
00:18:16 Michael (GLBC)
So we put it in the classic like Blue Dortmunder.
00:18:20 Michael (GLBC)
Very minimalist bottle with gold foil. Well, the old one had gold foil. We didn't. We didn't ask the bottling line guys to put gold foil on top of the bottles here in 2023, which they were very appreciative of, but the really fun one is we did a barrel aged version, basically an imperial version of Elliot Nets, so the amber.
00:18:40 Michael (GLBC)
******. You know all those wonderful toasty bread.
00:18:43 Michael (GLBC)
Just notes, but Jack it up from 6% to 12% and then lay it down in. It was actually bullet bourbon barrels for.
00:18:53 Michael (GLBC)
You know, I don't know, 6 to 9 months or something like that, maybe even a little bit.
00:18:57 Michael (GLBC)
Longer, and it's almost partly wine. Like so that was a really, really tasty beer. I've got still got a couple bottles of that down in the cellar right now. We had a party, you know, around the actual anniversary couple of months before.
00:19:11 Michael (GLBC)
And we did a bunch of fun merch. This unfortunately is not from like 15 years ago. This this is totally from this past year, so I wish I could claim this. This being like a 2008 hoodie here but.
00:19:25 Michael (GLBC)
It's it's fun this year, so so it was great. We love our milestones and I mean we're just we're grateful. We've been around for as long as.
00:19:34 Michael (GLBC)
We have so.
00:19:35 Michael (GLBC)
We thank our fans a lot for that.
00:19:40 Wendy
So before you pass it over to Dan, my last question is about the sustainability of the brewery. I'm taking an environmental science class right now, and it's completely changed the way I kind of look at things that are going on in our world. So I have kind of made it my mission to ask.
00:19:59 Wendy
Everybody that we talked to how sustainability falls into the business plan.
00:20:05 Michael (GLBC)
That's something that's always been really important for the Conway brothers from very, very early on. It was kind of like something.
00:20:13 Michael (GLBC)
So certain elements of sustainability, when you think of reducing waste, that's something that.
00:20:19 Michael (GLBC)
Honestly, it was kind of instilled in them from childhood being a very like large Irish family. I think they're they're two of nine. So sharing resources, making sure nothing's wasted from the table and things like that. So the big stuff we're doing right now for sustainability, the biggest thing is local.
00:20:39 Michael (GLBC)
Farming, so trying to keep the cycle of.
00:20:43 Michael (GLBC)
What we're consuming?
00:20:46 Michael (GLBC)
As close to home as possible, we have some farmland right around the corner from the brewery in the Ohio City neighborhood. We've had that for for quite a while, since 2010.
00:20:59 Michael (GLBC)
But we've also been partnering with a number of other local farms throughout.
00:21:04 Michael (GLBC)
The Greater Cleveland area, we recently hired a local food coordinator, Lexie St. Dennis, who's been amazing for.
00:21:12 Michael (GLBC)
Finding the people who are really doing it right when it comes to local food production and then kind of bringing that stuff in and featuring it on the brew pub menu, which is of course a huge attraction for general, you know, adrenal craft consumer, if you want to consume better beer.
00:21:32 Michael (GLBC)
Often enough, people want to consume kind of more thoughtfully produced food items as well, so that's the big one right now. We still do a lot of, like volunteer efforts, cleanups and things like that COVID certainly it's been a couple of years since the big shake up and everything, but we had to pull back on some things.
00:21:52 Michael (GLBC)
Like some of the local sport that we've done, but we've still been doing a good amount of that as much as we can considering.
00:21:59 Michael (GLBC)
That whole situation and then, you know the craft, I'm sure you guys have talked with others in the in the industry where it's not easy right now, but.
00:22:07 Michael (GLBC)
We're still doing as much as we can to give back and the water conservation of course across the board is is a huge thing for us like Great Lakes.
00:22:16 Wendy
That's awesome, Dan.
00:22:19 DAN
All right, so I got.
00:22:20 DAN
To ask this question first.
00:22:21 DAN
To get it out of the way.
00:22:22 DAN
Because I know.
00:22:22 DAN
Tons of wondering we asked.
00:22:24 DAN
You about it two years ago when the.
00:22:25 Michael (GLBC)
Heck, are you going to bottle Holy Moses? Moses. Yeah, I forgot. I don't know how I forgot because I noticed the the drops of Holy Moses when we were.
00:22:36 Michael (GLBC)
Planning this too so.
00:22:40 Ken
I think every single e-mail I like tried to first. It was like subtle and then it was like very, very like, hey, if you got any.
00:22:43
I know.
00:22:49 Michael (GLBC)
I know well. First of all, what I'll say is we're not going to bottle Holy Moses ever. Probably since we've shifted so heavily the cans.
00:23:00 Michael (GLBC)
And then when it comes to Holy Moses being put.
00:23:02 Michael (GLBC)
In the package.
00:23:04 Michael (GLBC)
You know what?
00:23:06 Michael (GLBC)
With the whole swing back towards traditional styles that we're kind of seeing, I don't know if you guys.
00:23:11 Michael (GLBC)
Have talked about.
00:23:12 Michael (GLBC)
That with others, but logger making a comeback, right? Yeah. Maybe white beer is gonna make a.
00:23:17 Michael (GLBC)
Comeback. We'll see. We'll see.
00:23:20 Michael (GLBC)
I I that's all I'm going.
00:23:22 Ken
To say.
00:23:23 Ken
I I want to make sure I get this question and then I'm going to pass it back to Dan because I think you'll have a good answer for it. But.
00:23:29 Ken
I feel holy Moses.
00:23:31 Ken
Is a beer loved by many? Drink by few and what I.
00:23:36 Ken
Mean by that is.
00:23:36 Ken
Is that when when people loved the beer, but when you reproduced it, you put it back in the market in 2018 as like a beer it it. It didn't really take as much as the the crowd wanting it. This is what I believe I could be completely wrong.
00:23:52 Ken
I feel like it's the exact same when we had fat tire coming to Michigan like everyone loved it, and then it's like, oh, well, we can get it anytime we want. So we take it for granted and we don't buy it.
00:24:02 Ken
Is that something you saw with Holy Moses as to why you?
00:24:06 Ken
Took it out.
00:24:07 Ken
Of packaging again, or is there something different?
00:24:10 Michael (GLBC)
No, it's pretty much that. So and you know I'm I'm as guilty of this as anyone else too. We're like, so for us, this is a little different probably. But you know, for us in Ohio.
00:24:22 Michael (GLBC)
This is forever ago now 10 years ago, like when England came in like.
00:24:28 Michael (GLBC)
People would drive to Pennsylvania by cases upon cases of it, and then once they entered Ohio, they're like, OK, cool, whatever, and then just didn't buy it them. And they bought it at first. But they didn't buy it that much after. But for Holy Moses, like, and it's like Holy Moses might be one of the biggest examples for us where, like, the people who love it really, really love it. And that's amazing.
00:24:50 Michael (GLBC)
And generally, I think a lot of people would say that's a.
00:24:54 Michael (GLBC)
Great whip beer.
00:24:57 Michael (GLBC)
But they don't actually drink that much with beer or buy that much with beer. You know what I mean? And as as a sister own type person, like, where I totally appreciate all the classic styles. What did I choose to drink for this today? Of course, a double IPA like I'm as guilty as anybody else, you know.
00:25:14 Michael (GLBC)
What I mean like?
00:25:16 Michael (GLBC)
Can I go for the Cezanne?
00:25:18 Michael (GLBC)
No, I think I'll have yet another IPA, you know? So that's it's unfortunately have so many of that. Unfortunately it just is what it is like we drink what we like and stuff. And I I like those.
00:25:30 Michael (GLBC)
Fears just not as much as many of the other beers that are out there. So.
00:25:36 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, people.
00:25:39 Michael (GLBC)
Really wanted it to come back and we brought it back and then, you know, it was OK. But it's like we we can also only make so many beers and.
00:25:48 Michael (GLBC)
You know, we want to have something that's more than just, OK, the beer itself. Amazing, but sales just not what they need to be. So and that's how it is for Ryan. The Tiger and Alberta Clipper. And you know, the the long list of other classic really Spears that we love too, but ultimately just aren't going to.
00:26:08 Michael (GLBC)
Move the needle. Especially again.
00:26:12 Michael (GLBC)
When shelf space is at a premium, you know when, with the competitiveness of what's going on right now out there. So now that being said, he has not brewed Holy Moses on the pub system.
00:26:22 Michael (GLBC)
For a little bit.
00:26:24 Michael (GLBC)
So I might need to bug the pub Brewer to get that back on.
00:26:28 Michael (GLBC)
The on the pub system.
00:26:31 Michael (GLBC)
Because it's a tasty beer.
00:26:33 Michael (GLBC)
And then I'll let you know and then I'll send you some crawlers or something.
00:26:37 DAN
Now it's funny, you actually mentioned that I had actually talked to Sam from Dogfish Head back at GBF and I had actually brought up another beer that I thought was popular. A lot of people like Palo Santo Marone. He's like, man, you know, I'd love to make it, but it just sits on the shelf. It's such a good beer, but it just doesn't move similar.
00:26:57 DAN
Situation I think.
00:26:58 Michael (GLBC)
The bummer about being a commercial brewery is that we have to we have to do.
00:27:02 Michael (GLBC)
Stuff that not.
00:27:03 Michael (GLBC)
Just stuff that sells, but stuff that sells at a certain rate you.
00:27:06 Michael (GLBC)
You know what I mean? Yeah. So it just it just is what it is.
00:27:12 Michael (GLBC)
JBF this past year I I really wanted to go this I haven't gotten since 2016 and.
00:27:19 Michael (GLBC)
I thought for like celebrating the advanced surround things like main ago, but then it just didn't make sense unfortunately. But one of these years I'm.
00:27:26 DAN
Going to make it back. Yeah, it's a great time. I encourage anyone.
00:27:29 DAN
Who hasn't been there?
00:27:29 DAN
To go out and do it.
00:27:30 DAN
Cause it's it's just a lot of fun.
00:27:33 Ken
Better on draft is made possible thanks to our Sponsored N Center Brewing in North.
00:27:36 Ken
Michigan Open Tuesday to Sunday N Center provides a fun atmosphere with amazing beer. Try their Bobby English while playing shuffleboard or wash down their classic Reuben sandwich with a glass of painkiller. Find them online@ncenterbrewing.com better on draft is sponsored by Zaituna Liquor located on Rochester Rd. in Rochester Hills.
00:27:57 Ken
Go visit Jack and see why he is known as one of the best beer and bourbon stores in the state. A large variety of singles, wine, booze and snacks as a tuna liquor is your one stop shop before a party.
00:28:10 Ken
Better on draft is sponsored by Craft tapped, currently located in 11 states including Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Craft app is a monthly subscription that pays for itself after just one visit to your local brewery. User code BYOD at checkout and receive 15% to any membership, not just for Michigan fans.
00:28:29 Ken
4 Michigan fans get 50% off your first 2 pine set. Each venue you go to, including better on draft sponsored, N Center Brewing and 2022 March Draft Ness winner copper hop in Saint Clair Shores.
00:28:41 DAN
Now I want to pivot back you have.
00:28:42 DAN
Been at the Cleveland Airport for a while.
00:28:45 DAN
When we talked to you.
00:28:47 DAN
You had told us about that. How is that doing? Is that seeing a lot of traffic there still? Is it growing? Tell us.
00:28:52 DAN
About how that's working out.
00:28:53 Michael (GLBC)
Man, that's a good question. I don't travel as much as.
00:28:55
UM.
00:28:57 Michael (GLBC)
I used to.
00:28:58 Michael (GLBC)
So and it's not just necessarily a pre post covet thing, but.
00:29:04 Michael (GLBC)
It's easier to connect with people from outer markets and stuff first COVID. Granted, because we all got used to zoom and all the other platforms and stuff, but also our our sales. Do we have a different sales lead right now than we have pre COVID and.
00:29:19 Michael (GLBC)
He really.
00:29:21 Michael (GLBC)
Leans on his reps in their own markets to do a little bit.
00:29:25 Michael (GLBC)
More leg work, which is good.
00:29:28 Michael (GLBC)
That being said.
00:29:28 Michael (GLBC)
When I do go by the airport pub.
00:29:32 Michael (GLBC)
It seems to be doing relatively well. I don't have that direct sales numbers either, but we.
00:29:40 Michael (GLBC)
We still have a super tight. Technically they're a franchisee or like they we license our branding to them, right. But we're still very, very closely linked with them. I know we're doing a lot of improvements there. Some of the graphics and and branding and stuff was kind of closer to the 2015.
00:29:59 Michael (GLBC)
And refresh. So obviously it's doing well enough that we're still investing a good amount of money to make sure that that space is.
00:30:09 Michael (GLBC)
Looking the way it should.
00:30:11 Michael (GLBC)
And then I'm in touch with the GM there for making sure their staff kind of once a year comes down to the.
00:30:17 Michael (GLBC)
Brewery and gets.
00:30:20 Michael (GLBC)
A primer on the core stuff, but then also you know an introduction to the the new stuff that we have rolling out throughout the year because we do prioritize stuff like vibrations, the double IPA which was our big release for this year, you know that went one of the first places that went was the airport pub.
00:30:41 Michael (GLBC)
Stuff like that. So I don't have the the raw data. You know what I mean and I'm sure.
00:30:47 Michael (GLBC)
Even though stuff has picked back up, I'm sure that it's not quite the same as it was in 2019, but it seems to be still holding its own there for sure and like.
00:31:02 Michael (GLBC)
I know it's a place where people go to kill time when their flights are delayed for for four hours. I know our our sales VP. Yeah. And a flight to Chicago that was delayed for four hours. It's like it's Chicago. How? Like there's no, it's 60° and sunny out like.
00:31:18 Michael (GLBC)
So a bunch of people were going over to the at least he was over at the pub and there are other other people. They're hanging out for sure.
00:31:24 DAN
Yeah, I used to fly into Cleveland quite a bit. There's only one flight. From where?
00:31:29 DAN
I'm at in.
00:31:30 DAN
Phoenix that goes there. So flying back, I'd always get there early on purpose specifically because of that. That's why I was curious.
00:31:38 DAN
Now something want to ask about now I'm going to assume, correct me if I'm wrong, has Great Lakes always been located in the same neighborhood for all?
00:31:45 DAN
35 years.
00:31:46 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, yeah, we've been basically.
00:31:51 Michael (GLBC)
In three different buildings within two blocks for all 35 years, other than unless you don't count the canning line, the canning line is down in Strongsville. So we're located. Ohio City is a neighborhood within the City of Cleveland proper, and that's like a 5 minute drive from downtown.
00:32:11 Michael (GLBC)
Itself, it's right across the Cuyahoga River.
00:32:14 Michael (GLBC)
It's a very dense neighborhood and it would have been really hard to fit our canning line and warehousing space. More importantly in that neighborhood. So, but that's facility is down in Strongsville. OH.
00:32:28 Michael (GLBC)
Which is about a 30 minute drive, but for all intents and.
00:32:31 Michael (GLBC)
Purposes, not too.
00:32:31 Michael (GLBC)
Far, but yeah, we've been.
00:32:34 Michael (GLBC)
We've been in Ohio City, you know, for six years as a brew pub from 88 to 92. We had kind of an interim facility, but we've actually been in the same production brewery since 1998. So we've been in the same facility since for 25.
00:32:49 Michael (GLBC)
And we would.
00:32:50 Michael (GLBC)
Love a shiny new brewery now?
00:32:54 Michael (GLBC)
For Christmas, yeah.
00:32:56 DAN
So getting to the wireless, asking about that, you're in a pretty dense brewery neighborhood. Basically, it seems like you have a lot of.
00:33:04 DAN
Breweries pretty close. I'm willing to bet 99 to 100% of those were not there when you originally opened, and you said you've been there the last.
00:33:13 DAN
11 years of.
00:33:14 DAN
These breweries giving you a lot of competition where you're seeing the decline of the brew.
00:33:18 DAN
Or do you still see pretty consistent?
00:33:21 Michael (GLBC)
No, no, the the it's not just the other breweries, but it's also all the other restaurants and in general nightlife that has grown up in Ohio City. So 100%, we do not see.
00:33:34 Michael (GLBC)
Quite this, and again I don't see the direct numbers, but I was a server in the pub for five years and like, I don't think things are quite the same and and I go down for shift beers many days a week, so I'm down in the area. It's not like I'm out of touch with what's going on in the pub.
00:33:50 Michael (GLBC)
Things are not the same as they were from, you know, 2011 to let's say 20/15/2016 or so. It was just.
00:33:59 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, we had the guys at Market Garden across the street and I think they started in 2012.
00:34:06 Michael (GLBC)
And they're great neighbors.
00:34:10 Michael (GLBC)
And they obviously some people go there instead of to to us a couple other bars up and down W 25th St. and then another brewery up the road, another one on Lorraine. Yeah, ultimately there are only so many people coming down to Ohio City.
00:34:30 Michael (GLBC)
There are probably more than used to, and that's the beautiful thing about having market garden and book House and Hansa and our neighbors there is that.
00:34:38 Michael (GLBC)
There is an element where the rising tide lifts all ships, so there are more people coming down to Ohio City. There's no doubt about that. But at the same time, when we were the only game in town, when the people came down there, they came to us. So yeah, sales are probably down a little bit. The Brew Pub team has also done a great job of.
00:35:00 Michael (GLBC)
You know, many praise saying and having attractive items to draw certain.
00:35:06 Michael (GLBC)
People and you know, through the doors where I think they've kept margins pretty good and things like that and we we still treat the Brew pub crew very well, they get you know benefits if they're working a certain amount of time and things like that.
00:35:20 Michael (GLBC)
So but yeah, I.
00:35:22 Michael (GLBC)
Mean, realistically speaking, it's not 2011. When we were literally one of the only places in Ohio.
00:35:27 Michael (GLBC)
Ready to go? So but ultimately, I think for the Cleveland beer scene, you know?
00:35:35 Michael (GLBC)
It's it's a. It's a good thing that there are a number of Brewers down.
00:35:39 Michael (GLBC)
In the area.
00:35:41 DAN
Oh yeah, absolutely. One more question here. I'm going to pass it to kind, I hope you can tell me a little bit about this. You do you do distribute to a lot of states Arizona again where I'm at, it's not one of them, but we do get your beer here from time to time, for example, Christmas sale is here right now. It's the only one we.
00:35:57 DAN
Can actually get.
00:35:59 DAN
How do you decide to do that? To send beers to random states you don't distribute to, and does that affect how you're looking to expand your distribution in the future?
00:36:08 Michael (GLBC)
Sure, sure. So for that, those drops are pretty much limited to Arizona and we've done Florida which.
00:36:19 Michael (GLBC)
You know, no, there's absolutely no connection between Florida and Arizona and then cold weather states like Ohio, you know, right now there are another a a number of Clevelanders who are down and, you know, Michiganders and stuff like that, who are, that's probably a totally incorrect term. Michigander. Right. I'm sorry if I totally screwed that up, but.
00:36:40 Michael (GLBC)
People from Michigan and Ohio and any other cold weather state who go down to the warmer areas, right?
00:36:46 Michael (GLBC)
So it would be tough for us to open up states like that for full on distribution, but there's certainly where we get a ton of demand requests all the time. So if there's one time a year that we can kind of do.
00:37:03 Michael (GLBC)
A little drop where it makes the most sense to be, of course, around Christmas sales season where people are thinking about us so much.
00:37:11 Michael (GLBC)
So that's why you're seeing Christmas sale down there in Arizona. I wasn't even sure that we still sent it down there this particular year, but when it comes to actual distribution expansion, that's been something that's been very, very sparing for us lately like.
00:37:28 Michael (GLBC)
We just opened NYC.
00:37:31 Michael (GLBC)
That's the first new market that we opened since 2019 and honestly 20/19 was Maryland before that. I can't even remember the last time.
00:37:39 Michael (GLBC)
We opened new territory because.
00:37:41 Michael (GLBC)
Everybody wants local, which is good. I mean, that's what we were for. Cleveland, when we started, you know? And then we're like, OK, we can expand throughout the Great Lakes, but like, it doesn't make sense for us to go to.
00:37:54 Michael (GLBC)
Kansas or something, necessarily? Because why? Why do people there care about great? Like we're lucky we have the name Great Lakes. So that someone in Wisconsin's like, oh, yeah, with Great Lakes, you know.
00:38:07 Wendy
I had friends that thought you guys were here.
00:38:10 DAN
Totally like, yeah, yeah.
00:38:12 Michael (GLBC)
And and we're not going to tell them that we're not necessarily.
00:38:15
Right.
00:38:18 Michael (GLBC)
Just nod, nod and smile.
00:38:21 DAN
Remember too, being a guardians fan, your spring training is here so you know you can always consider. Always consider that.
00:38:25 Michael (GLBC)
Yes, yes, yes, that's that's that's that's another element for it too for sure. And our former CEO also is down there bills down, Bill, if you're listening. Hello. He's down there in Arizona as well. So you got to make sure we have.
00:38:40 Ken
Well, I I guess my question is, as we're talking about the newer breweries that enter the market as a brewery that's been there for 35 years, you're in the realms of Sierra Nevada of New Belgium of.
00:38:56 Ken
Bells here at Michigan, like how do.
00:38:58 Ken
You you know.
00:38:59 Ken
Get to that customer cause like new craft beer fans, every beer is new, but older craft beer fans like ourselves. How do you?
00:39:07 Ken
Reach out to us.
00:39:09 Ken
And say you know, hey, I I know it's been a few minutes. Why don't you come back and try this beer? Like, how do you get?
00:39:15 Ken
Reach out to.
00:39:17 Ken
The older fans like.
00:39:19 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, that is a great question right there. So you know for us, we're lucky that and and like all the other guys that you just mentioned, we've got the long time loyal fans.
00:39:32 Michael (GLBC)
And we are obviously trying to go for newer demos, right, just as those guys are as well, like the Juicy Double IPA and crane orange weed and.
00:39:40 Michael (GLBC)
Things like that.
00:39:43 Michael (GLBC)
But for going back man, that's a great question for getting people who.
00:39:49 Michael (GLBC)
Maybe haven't had our beer.
00:39:50 Michael (GLBC)
For a little bit, we do.
00:39:53 Michael (GLBC)
You know, Holy Moses again, not gonna not going to be back because the year.
00:39:56 Michael (GLBC)
Round thing but.
00:39:58 Michael (GLBC)
We have stuff like we did. Blackout Stout is one of the big things that people ask us for all.
00:40:04 Michael (GLBC)
The time.
00:40:06 Michael (GLBC)
And we did, we brought that one back that was 21.
00:40:10 Michael (GLBC)
Was that just last year?
00:40:12 Michael (GLBC)
Within the past year or two, we did blackouts out again and that was a very intentional. It was like we want to make the longtime fans that was not like in the annual business plan. It's going to move the needle. It was like we want to make.
00:40:29 Michael (GLBC)
Our longtime fans who asked for this all the time, happy.
00:40:33 Michael (GLBC)
And so we breed that fear. I mean, that's ultimately what longtime fans want, right? Is for some of those classics to come back. So we did blackout. I could see us potentially down the line doing other beers like that too. We have been open to a little bit more flexibility, which I love. I'm very happy.
00:40:54 Michael (GLBC)
That we're open to this, of doing like limited releases where.
00:40:59 Michael (GLBC)
It doesn't need to be in every total line or my or whatever, right? We can do a limited release that goes to the indie retailers and the gift shop and things here in Ohio City.
00:41:13 Michael (GLBC)
And it appeals to people who.
00:41:15 Michael (GLBC)
Aren't the new drinkers coming in so?
00:41:19 Michael (GLBC)
I think blackout.
00:41:19 Michael (GLBC)
Stat is hopefully a good precedent for us where not promising anything, but hopefully where in the future we might dip back in and do a limited release of Ryan the tiger or other beers that people really love.
00:41:35 Michael (GLBC)
From us in the past that we can't do all the time, but we can at least do a limited thing for and we're still doing Dartmouth and we're still doing some of the classics too. I think that's key as well as like LNS has not been discontinued. Evan Fitzgerald is still around things like that.
00:41:42
Well, I.
00:41:51 Ken
I was actually looking at your website and one of the beers that I used to travel a lot for work and what I would get into Ohio, I had a small group of friends who would always ask for the same thing. And that's Nosferatu. That beer is coming back this year. What was the the the theory behind bringing back that beer?
00:42:10 Michael (GLBC)
You know, Nosferatu is never left. So that one we have a couple of those ones that are enough of a cult classic that they haven't left. But honestly, so this ratio is an interesting one because we haven't always called it an IPA. We kind of shifted this Imperial Red IPA branding for it.
00:42:30 Michael (GLBC)
And so style without a home, you know a a big.
00:42:34 Michael (GLBC)
Multi beer that's also hot forward, but it's not a barley wine. It's like, what exactly is this? So we've called it a number of different things throughout the years.
00:42:49 Michael (GLBC)
I mean, people understand what the term IPA means, so it it made sense for us to call it a red IPA.
00:42:56 Michael (GLBC)
But I think that's also telling the fact that that one.
00:43:01 Michael (GLBC)
Where it's a little niche. It is old school. It's a beer that goes back to the early 90s. For us, it's telling that that stuck around for as long as it did because it is a hot forward offering to a certain extent, it's got the Halloween thing too. So whereas some of the other beers that that people love.
00:43:22 Michael (GLBC)
Made consistently for a while to have a certain brand image when something so linked with a a holiday like Halloween, and then if you're a big black and white, you know silent film buff too that also works for the actual movie that it's named for. But those are a couple of reasons I think that knows for itune particular stuck around.
00:43:41 Michael (GLBC)
Whereas maybe some of the other ones did not. So the biggest one, the beer though, it's the fact.
00:43:46 Michael (GLBC)
That it's a hop forward beer.
00:43:48 Ken
I I guess I want to touch on what you said IPA. You know what that means.
00:43:55 Ken
What does that?
00:43:56 Ken
Mean like as a consumer, as a marketer? Like what does it's an IPA. You know what that means means.
00:44:03 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah. And when I say that, I think it's most craft consumers, most people, when they think of craft beer.
00:44:14 Michael (GLBC)
Not everybody, but I think when most people think of craft beer, they they think of IPA simply because it is.
00:44:21 Michael (GLBC)
Ubiquitous. You know, roughly one and two beers sold our IPA's.
00:44:28 Michael (GLBC)
What it actually means if you're thinking about it, is a little tricky because you have everything from.
00:44:35 Michael (GLBC)
Hazy IPA's that have no betterness to imperial IPA's. They're totally insane in terms of IBU content and all that, but.
00:44:47 Michael (GLBC)
What I meant was.
00:44:50 Michael (GLBC)
Like those, that's a visa called the Stockdale, and then we called it an Imperial Red ale and things like that. And most people have no notion what a stock ale is, you know.
00:45:04 Michael (GLBC)
A beer that was kept for blending into to other recipes in 19th or 18th century England so.
00:45:13 Michael (GLBC)
Calling it an IP at.
00:45:14 Michael (GLBC)
Least gives a lot of consumers out there some sort of framework to judge it on. They know it's going to be.
00:45:21 Michael (GLBC)
Hot forward, but you.
00:45:22 Michael (GLBC)
Bring up a good point is that in 2023.
00:45:27 Michael (GLBC)
What exactly does IPA mean? Honestly, at this point it's it's pretty much anything that.
00:45:34 Michael (GLBC)
Is hop forward in an American hop sense? I think because.
00:45:43 Michael (GLBC)
There's what 20 different sub segments of IP at this point, so.
00:45:48 Michael (GLBC)
You know.
00:45:49 Michael (GLBC)
And on in one sense, it's really easy to say the three letters IPA and.
00:45:56 Michael (GLBC)
An average craft consumer will be like I will try that, but then if you actually sit down and think about what makes this an IPA, it gets a lot more difficult. So you have pills, nerves that are American hop forward and do we call that a a cold pale ale? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know.
00:46:14 Ken
I guess that that's the next question. What's a cold IPA?
00:46:17 Michael (GLBC)
I don't know, you told.
00:46:18 Michael (GLBC)
Me about that, yeah.
00:46:21 Ken
Well, you're the advanced system.
00:46:23 Michael (GLBC)
I know, I know, I.
00:46:24
Know I said it. I'm kidding.
00:46:24 Ken
Saw your name on the website so I have to ask you. I know a lot of people kinda joke because some of these styles like a cold IPA people, you know that they're there's just a new name for something different, but when you go into the realm of IPA's and before we get into our final questions, you know I wanna.
00:46:26
Know I'm kidding, yeah.
00:46:44 Ken
I wanna tug on your your teaching skills.
00:46:48 Ken
How do you?
00:46:49 Ken
Address someone that says I don't like IPA's. I come to you. I I don't. Yeah. Most IPA's I don't like gotta be careful before.
00:46:58 Ken
Dan, you know, camp cuts.
00:46:59 DAN
You're you're already. You said it last week. You were drinking an IPA you like. It's it's yeah, IPA.
00:47:06 Michael (GLBC)
Do you like? Do you like the hazies?
00:47:06 Ken
Well, what? Not really. I I I had the the juicy from Alaskan and then their standard IPA that they also sell in their mix pack and both actually tasted fairly well. But for me like I don't want.
00:47:22 Ken
I understand that for most IPA's, especially here in.
00:47:27 Ken
Michigan, when you're dealing with like 2 hearted or you're dealing with these other IPA's that have a more Piney, a more bitter tasting. Whereas I want something a little bit more citrusy, a little bit more fruity. So I understand a little bit more the hops wise, but if I'm say I'm a new server and I say I don't like IPA.
00:47:47 Michael (GLBC)
Totally, yeah.
00:47:47 Ken
And you want, you don't want them to say that to a.
00:47:49 Ken
Customer you want them?
00:47:50
Of course.
00:47:50 Ken
To say I like this IPA because X how do you address that server? How do you address that person that just says, you know, just tells you. I don't like IPA's.
00:48:00 Michael (GLBC)
Totally. And I asked you the question because one of the first things I would do is ask why.
00:48:05 Michael (GLBC)
One might not like them, but most of the time it's the bitterness factor. I don't know if that's what it is for you in particular, but.
00:48:14 Michael (GLBC)
From my experience, from all my different positions at the brewery, but certainly as an educator now, the number one thing that it seems to be that most people don't like about IPA's traditionally is that bitterness factor.
00:48:28 Michael (GLBC)
And that makes a lot of sense, considering what we all went through. You know, in the late 90s, through the early 20 tens when we were all trying to make ridiculous, you know, 170 IBU beers and stuff for certain flashy marketing or just.
00:48:48 Michael (GLBC)
Flexing purposes, right? So but I really think the hazy IPA revolution, if you will, of you know 20/17/2018.
00:49:00 Michael (GLBC)
Turned a lot of people onto IPA who weren't drinking it before because hazies are.
00:49:08 Michael (GLBC)
Low I be across the board, not necessarily all the classic examples like Heady Topper is, is a bitter beer, but a lot of the ultimately a lot of the New England Brewers made the choice to focus on fruit flavor and the hops. But fruit flavor is something we all love as humans for the for the most part.
00:49:28 Michael (GLBC)
Something we're wired to love because it's.
00:49:30 Michael (GLBC)
A source of sustenance.
00:49:32 Michael (GLBC)
And then avoid bitterness, because that's something we're also wired to not like, because it often indicates that something's poisonous. So.
00:49:42 Michael (GLBC)
You see that with a lot of contemporary IPA's, like the stuff that we've been coming out with over the past couple of years, even though they're not hazy like hibachis and we have a new one called Midwest IPA that we didn't have quite enough of. I would have loved to send that to you guys because it's got Michigan right in.
00:49:59 Michael (GLBC)
The middle because it's in the Great Lakes.
00:50:03 Michael (GLBC)
It appeals to everyone throughout the region, of course.
00:50:07 Michael (GLBC)
And it's they're both relatively lower and IBU's, so Midwest IPO's, 45 vivacious is just 40. So we kind of see that definitive shift that's happened.
00:50:19 Michael (GLBC)
Thanks to hazy IPA's and and there's a reason why.
00:50:23 Michael (GLBC)
IPA growth has kind of continued over the past decade or so. I think it's really because Brewers made that intentional choice to stop making their beer so big.
00:50:35 Michael (GLBC)
There and focus on those more fruit forward flavors. So that's what I'd always recommend to like a server or any of our tour guides who are, you know, we're trying to turn people on to our newer products is focused on the fact that.
00:50:48 Michael (GLBC)
First ask that question I think as an educator, one of the most important things is to also ask questions of.
00:50:57 Michael (GLBC)
Your students, your audience, and find out the why, right? So and often enough. It's it's that bitterness factor. So I think that's kind of the key for turning people onto IPA in 2023.
00:51:10 Ken
Alright, well, as we end each and every show, we ask you a final question, something fun, light hearted and then give you the opportunity to promote what's upcoming, which I'm assuming is going to be the Christmas 12 packs including these cookie exchange milk stouts. Starting with Wendy. Wendy, what is your final question?
00:51:29 Wendy
So I love to travel to different berries, so I would like to ask normally I would ask why should we come to visit your brewery? But I came across an article about a secret seller Christmas bar. So I would like to.
00:51:44
Ohh yeah.
00:51:45 Wendy
Know what is that?
00:51:46 Wendy
Right.
00:51:47 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, it's. It's basically like Christmas thrown up all over our cellar pubs. There's this bar beneath the main brew pub and it's it's an adorable, cozy little space. It's great anytime of the year, but the past couple of years, they they made the intentional choice to just put, like twinkle lights in every single little.
00:52:08 Michael (GLBC)
Corner that you can think of and they're serving like special Christmas themed cocktails down there. It's an adorable little space.
00:52:18 Michael (GLBC)
And it's like it's normally kind of dark and dank, but it becomes so bright down there because there are so many Christmas lights so.
00:52:25 Michael (GLBC)
It's a great place to.
00:52:26 Michael (GLBC)
Kind of slip away too during.
00:52:27 Michael (GLBC)
The holidays that starts on, I think that starts this Wednesday.
00:52:32 Wendy
That's amazing. I think I'm going to have to schedule a trip. Just.
00:52:34 Wendy
To check it out.
00:52:35 Michael (GLBC)
Do it.
00:52:38 Michael (GLBC)
I'll be there. That's for.
00:52:39 Michael (GLBC)
Me, I will.
00:52:40 Ken
Dan, what's your final question?
00:52:42 DAN
All right, so last time you were here a couple of years ago, we talked about 73 coals, which for people who don't know is Joe Thompson Spear. I'm a Cleveland fan. You know, our superstar Deshaun Watson just got injured. I'm. I'm hoping you have some ideas. I have some ideas, actually, now that he's got time, maybe you can take this to the owner.
00:53:02 DAN
And see if we can the owner.
00:53:03 DAN
Is and let.
00:53:04 DAN
Me know your thoughts on this as well to bring in to Sean Watson. Get some beers made. The first one is gonna be so stupid. He's going to cancel beer right now, but we have the first one. Is Deshaun Watsons SA stout.
00:53:17 DAN
And I'll let you do the.
00:53:18 DAN
Math on what SA stands for?
00:53:21 DAN
And then there's also.
00:53:21 Michael (GLBC)
I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do no math. Ken can do the math. Yeah.
00:53:24 DAN
It's super awesome style and and then the second one is the Sean Watsons massage parlor pale ale. What do you think? Can we get these tips to the others?
00:53:26
Right.
00:53:33 Michael (GLBC)
We can't. We can't. We got an agreement with Joe. We can't, like, break that agreement. Dude. Can't do anything.
00:53:38 DAN
But you don't have to. You don't have to break the agreement with Joe I.
00:53:41 DAN
Mean this is just another.
00:53:42 Michael (GLBC)
Dude, it's like he just got that gold jacket. We can't. We cannot. We can't consider anything.
00:53:47 DAN
Are you saying those are nose?
00:53:50 Michael (GLBC)
Those are nose, yeah.
00:53:54 Michael (GLBC)
Oh Jesus, we got the gold jacket.
00:53:56 Michael (GLBC)
Guy, man, come on.
00:53:58 Ken
I mean it's.
00:53:59 Michael (GLBC)
We're going to be, by the way, the Browns are going to be. I hope to Sean heads up, but we're still winning the division, going the.
00:54:05 Michael (GLBC)
Playoffs it's it's.
00:54:06 DAN
Going to be the lions and the Browns to the.
00:54:08 DAN
Super Bowl and.
00:54:09 DAN
Everyone's going to lose their lines, yeah.
00:54:09 Michael (GLBC)
Ryan Brown, Super Bowl. Yep. And the world will end. Yep. I thought that was going to be 2016 with the Cubs and the Indians. But yeah, it.
00:54:16 DAN
Will be this year.
00:54:18 Ken
I I mean as as I my question was about football, I don't know how Dan pulled this.
00:54:23 Ken
One off, but so I.
00:54:26 DAN
Is that really about football?
00:54:27 Ken
It it actually was about football because I want to know something, if you.
00:54:31 Ken
Know, you know, we all.
00:54:33 Ken
Know where we were on.
00:54:34 Ken
Big events when something's happened with the country.
00:54:37 Ken
You know, when Matt Stafford won the Super Bowl. But my question to you is, is that on the December 14th, 2014?
00:54:48 Ken
It was Johnny Manziel's very first start in the NFL for Cleveland. I was in Cleveland for that event. I saw so many hearts break live as they lost 30 to nothing. Do you remember where you were on Johnny Manziel's first NFL start?
00:55:07 DAN
I do not remember.
00:55:08
OK.
00:55:10
Hopefully that's OK.
00:55:12
But we we.
00:55:12 DAN
I remember where I was.
00:55:13 Ken
We tried to actually go.
00:55:14 Michael (GLBC)
I wish I had a more.
00:55:15 Michael (GLBC)
Dramatic or witting response to that?
00:55:17 Ken
We we actually tried to go to Great Lakes Brewing, but it was a Sunday and you guys were closed.
00:55:21 Ken
At that time.
00:55:22 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, we used to be closed.
00:55:23 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah, we're open on Sundays now.
00:55:24 Ken
So we were we were at Market Garden Brewing and I saw the hearts of so many Cleveland, Cleveland, Deers, Cleveland, these.
00:55:33 Ken
However, you say Cleveland people.
00:55:35 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Like michiganders? Yeah.
00:55:36 Ken
Cleveland, there is just just well, it.
00:55:39 Ken
Is Michiganders so you were.
00:55:40 Wendy
It is michigander people that say michiganian. It's weird.
00:55:41 Michael (GLBC)
Correct, it is Michiganders. OK, good.
00:55:44 Ken
I I saw just a collective heartbreak quarter after quarter, watching that game as. Yeah, as as Andy Dale.
00:55:49 Michael (GLBC)
So just like any other game.
00:55:55 Ken
Ran through a 30 to nothing win over the Browns, but Great Lakes Brewing. You guys have a 12 pack coming out or it's already out so they can get it. What else is going on for the rest of the year? Beginning of next year?
00:56:10 Michael (GLBC)
Yeah. So we get the the pack you're talking about. It's a fun holiday pack. It's got six at Christmas sale and six of Cookie exchange. So the other two beers, they're floating out there for kind of the holidays are cooking. Exchange Milk Stout, 55 ABV. It's a pastry stout, but it's not a bruiser, like a lot of the other versions you see out there, which I love.
00:56:30 Michael (GLBC)
Bagel pastry style but.
00:56:32 Michael (GLBC)
Christmas sale destroys people enough. We didn't need another high ABV beer, so it's got speculoos in it which everybody knows exactly what that is, right? Just kidding. It's the little biscoff cookie that you get on airplanes. It's a it's a dolphin spice blend that's generally like caramel, vanilla shortbread, so.
00:56:52 Michael (GLBC)
That's everywhere people can find it. It's going to have a rotating cookie flavor every year too, so stay tuned, 2024 will be something else, another Christmas cook.
00:57:02 Michael (GLBC)
And then the crayon orange Wheat is out there as well. Also 55, that one. You know, we kind of leaned into the holidays a little bit, but it will run throughout winter into spring, and then we'll have another flavored be coming out later on. So ton of cranberry and that one, it's not a sour, but if we got people out there.
00:57:21 Michael (GLBC)
Who love?
00:57:22 Michael (GLBC)
Tart flavors. There's certainly a lot of tartness going on in crane orange wheat because it's got a lot of that cranberry flavor.
00:57:28 Michael (GLBC)
Going on otherwise.
00:57:29 Wendy
It's the perfect amount of Kurt.
00:57:31 Michael (GLBC)
Perfect amount of tart. Awesome. Yeah, not sour, right? But and again, we're not kind of branding it as a a sour in any way. It's just, it's cranberry. So it's it's like actual cranberry.
00:57:43 Michael (GLBC)
Otherwise, you know, we're honing the IPA champs kind of mentioned, vivacious already. Midwest IPA will be coming. It's it's the go to IPA we haven't.
00:57:55 Michael (GLBC)
Like we have so many classic styles, we never really, truly nailed a classic American IPA. That's a go to everyday type thing. So you guys will see that coming.
00:58:09 Michael (GLBC)
I'll just say this here, this juicy double IPA.
00:58:15 Michael (GLBC)
Is totally not related to anything we're doing in the future, so it just happens to be something we put up throughout the gift shop. Wink, wink. So stay tuned for some juicy stuff coming down the line, and the last thing I think beer, why is that something I'm really pumped about is we are kind of dusting off the barrel aged beer program.
00:58:36 Michael (GLBC)
And we're brewing a lot of beers. They're going to be brewed. They're brewed intentionally for barrel aging. So we barely aged Christmas sale before. Blackout style, we put into bourbon barrels, but those are beers that existed on the round. We happen to barrel age. Now we're starting to develop beers.
00:58:55 Michael (GLBC)
Specifically for the barrels, so big beefy, a lot of residual body to stand up to that aging process so.
00:59:01 Michael (GLBC)
Got a quad? There's some other fun stuff that's coming down.
00:59:04 Michael (GLBC)
The line as well.
00:59:06 Michael (GLBC)
We're having a lot.
00:59:07 Michael (GLBC)
Of fun here at Great Lake.
00:59:09 Ken
Awesome. Well, that's going to do it for episode 332 with a better on draft podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. And no matter what you think of your beer.
00:59:18 Ken
We think gets.
00:59:21 Ken
Better on draft. Have a good night.