Also media.
The future is bulletproof, the aftermath is secondary. Welcome to batter Offline. I'm your host ed zech tron. Today were joined in the beautiful Los Angeles, Nevada, and I'm joined by Andy Richter, the comedian. Andy, thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you for being here. On the way to the studio, I got to see a man smoking crack, which I haven't. I haven't seen that in the long time.
That's kind of that's nostalgia.
Sure it is. So you're still doing crack.
People are still doing crack in this know, that's what they're saying. So, Andy, you've been so so nineties. Now we're bringing the nineties back. I was listening to a System of a Down. Sorry, I've been down this rabbit hole. This is tech podcast. We'll talk about stuff eventually. I've been down this rabbit hole of listening to this band called O two that does cover of bands in the style of other bands. And there was a System of a Down in the style of System of Down cover
of the Scatman song Wow. It was truly amazing, like they nailed both the Scatman rap and the system of a downtown Wow. And the comments on these things are amazing because it's like fifty percent people like me saying this is really great. At fifty percent people being like, no, it's not, yeah, anything like the fucking Scatman. Yeah, the Scatman fans are all out there. Anyway, you've been fairly online for a while. I've noticed you on social media. When'd your first get online?
Well, first online like on the Internet, would have been in the early nineties when I started working on Late Night with Conan O'Brien. That was that was when sort of you know, there was AOL and in fact, yeah, we were. I was the first time online. It was AOL.
You know, I got one of those discs in the mail or you know, out of a magazine or whatever, and it was dial up and I had these clunky old mac uh power books and and at worked there was the Internet and it because at first the Internet I was like, wait, is it just like catalogs, you know, like PEPSI would have a website and be like, well, I kind of know what PEPSI is.
And then was that initial pair of when I remember when I go online, when it was like ten yeah, just like looking up companies.
Yeah, exactly.
But everything you you went to because it was dial up was very much a commitment, yeah, to be so sure.
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, And and to go from one thing to the other took so long. Oh yeah, but then
email was pretty fun. Facebook was fun for five seconds and then I immediately got off of there, right, And and of course then you know, like at the Conan Show, it was, you know, everybody was experiencing this new thing altogether, right, And as usual with every new technology, the one of the first primary uses is pornograph of course, so there was you know, plenty of and because it's a comedy show, it wasn't just like people fucking. It was like people
filling up plastic pants with diarrhea. Okay, you know, stuff like that, and that's what we'd be swapping around the office.
So wait, so you were on dial up doing this?
Yes, so, well we were at work doing that. So I don't know what. I don't know what our internet connection was at work, so it.
Was like the late nights T one connection something like bring up the Clown.
It was better than than home. But like, I don't think I had to log on right with the work computer, you know, so you were just.
Looking up various kinds of pornos and send everybody was they would I.
Just remember, I don't and I don't remember exactly how we would find them, and but I just there'd be like files of oh three hundred you know, we weird sex photos, you know.
Sex photo of course it would have been JPEGs back then. Yes, I wouldn't have the speed together.
I don't. I don't know. You know, Well, just.
Were people crowding around one's screen or was it just a luck and aft?
There was some crowding around one screen. There was one guy in the office who would hit his his desk faced the door, so you'd see the back of his computer screen and he would he would I fell for it like three times, like a hey, Comara, I want to show you something, and you come around and it's just the most horrific, right yeah, the most like not at all sexual sex thing. And so after a while he'd say like, hey, come here, and I fuck you, No, I'm not I'm not falling for that again.
So I am cursed with two brothers, and Matthew and William are they older or both all of my sister and older as well. Matthew is a grotesque fellow and has shown me terrible things. So I've become kind of desensitized to the whole thing. And I remember the first one of the first days working at a pr FAM. I got to all the guys like, hey, Ed, come check this. You should come check type this into and it was meat spin, do not look this up? Okay, But I remember them going being like, check out meat
spin and it is a man's really going in a circle. Sure. I sat there in complete silence for several minutes, my fingers just steepled and could see out the corner of my eye the deep discomfort right right because.
That you were soaking it in.
No, just just like Ginda Wakari from me Van Gelien, just sitting there, just like staring at it. And after that I never got to sent anything gross again. They wouldn't send me anything because they knew that just also, I think they kind of knew that I might retaliate one day. And I really this entire episode doesn't have to be about gross stuff. But I come from a darker place of the Internet, like I was on like early forums and like bulletin boards and used net not the worst part of.
News buying and selling foreign bab.
No, I was like twelve, and so the people were doing that around me, and so that was fun, but I also got to see so many horrible things. Yeah, and like there's Painful and her listeners who remember Painful do not look up any of the things we're talking about. It is funny, though, because that used to be a lot of the early Internet was just like hey, I found something gross, look at that shit?
Yeah yeah yeah, and.
That's gone now because there's no entire creddits for it.
Yes, yes, and I don't yeah. And also it's just like the novelty sort of yeah, you know, it's like too quick. Yeah, that was like, oh that was because it's like, oh, can you get like the worst kind of uh you know, the worst kind of pornography? Oh? Yeah you can. And then you know it's like okay, now you can get it immedia. Yeah it's not my And because if it's not your thing, which is like not my you know, like my pornography, I like it.
Like I said, like if there was a search on a porn website for people being nice to each other, yeah, like that would be my I'm very boring for me.
It's a and a woman they walk into the room, they shake hands, and they sit in complete silence for an hour rock hood every.
Time, and then they start fucking.
Yeah, but the video I'm not interested implications enough for me, right, But I think and I will say, there's nothing wrong with having your particular proclivities. The sex positive show and all that, But nevertheless, it is funny watching the Internet move away from pornography and towards being insane.
Now, yes, yes, exactly.
We just had Geeta Jackson and Nathan Grayson from Aftermath, a gaming website, and it's just talking about how games used to be. Like when I start on the Internet, it was like, oh, you could look at like forums video games and we tall talk about which characters were cool. Now it's like, oh you don't like cloud Stripe and File Fantasy seven, I will kill you, Yeah, I will snipe you. Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you get involved in any Internet communities? I know you're quite active in Instagram.
Yeah. I well, Twitter was my main one. You know which Twitter? Twitter was a new like the a real step of being on online right line for me, And I got on Twitter. You know that this was social media was a new thing, you know, a couple of years old, and like I say, I got on Facebook for a minute and then I just I was like,
there's too many people going, you know. It was it just felt like having an open door in your house that just people could come and go, hey, you want to talk and like, no, I do not want to talk to you.
Ye had a sandwich?
What are you thinking? Yeah? Yes, guys anyway can but so uh I actually, uh it was it was right before I went back to work for Conan on the Tonight Show. I believe, I think the time, because it was like twenty ten. Yeah, Twitter would have been that would I can't I can't remember. That would make.
Sense though, because that was a few years into Twitches. It has become more than just digital perverse.
Yes, yes, And and I had friends like, uh my friend Steve Ag comedian Steve Ag actor. He told me Twitter is really fun, like it's like it's like jokes. And I was like, oh, okay, because you know, and I had already quit Facebook. I was playing in the Major League Baseball All Star Game was down in Anaheim, cool, and I played, And I did this a couple of times. I played in the Celebrities and Old Time Baseball Guys charity softball event It's like a couple of days before
the actual All Star Game. So I was going down there and the production coordinator for Conan called me and said, hey, we got an offer. They know you're playing there. If you would get on Twitter and tweet about what you know about the game, you might get a new iPhone. And I was like, oh, all right, sure, no problem. So I in the car on the drive to Anaheim, I signed up for Twitter. And then it was like I very quickly did see like and as I ever referred to it. For me in those early days, it
was like the joke Jim. It was like where we all went to be funny, you know, yeah, just think up silly stuff, and it wasn't. And I never And it's I think the reason I liked it so much is that I wasn't. It was just for pure enjoyment. Yeah, you know, I mean I think you know, I'm saying funny, smart ass shit all the time, right, and and so
you know, something funny will occur to me. I don't have an act, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna you know, and it's like if I see something funny on the street, I'm not gonna like take it to the TV show and say here's this funny you know Chinatown sign I saw, you know, so I just would do it for fun and it was and it was fun and it was also just fun to give away happiness and funniness. And I and I started to meet like comedians who are like, why are you on there?
Like why would you waste your material? I'm like, so funny, Oh my god, waste what are you talking about? It's you know, there was very little sort of professional urge or you know, motive behind anything I did on Twitter.
I mean, I would promo things when I had things to promo, but it was mostly just fun and I met people, you know, people who are now my ir L friends, you know, like and you know, yeah, and it was certainly in those early days it was what was great about and just in comedy terms and I and it probably holds in poetry terms and in you know,
technical writing terms. There's no gatekeeper. So that which is why there were so many women that that you know, funny comedy women that came up and got their start with Twitter, because they, you know, there there were gatekeepers that kept women from being funny in front of people.
And I think the twitch is the other problem of woman female comedians being like corrected for their jokes. And you see you still see that on Blue Sky and it was kind of a more democratic force I think for any kind of joke telling the thing that. The only thing that really bothered me with it was this do you ever see fave Star?
Yeah?
So there was.
I mean, I don't even does it still exist.
It doesn't, but the soul lives on. It's soul caliber and it's what it was explain for the listeners. So there is this thing called fab Star and around it this growing clique of deeply unfunny people that we will repost each other's shit, and it created this kind of noxious version of what you're talking about, where what you're talking about is like I as a funny person, I've I've found a thing that made me laugh. I posted
these people. You see them on blue Sky now, and you can tell they're on Blue Sky because they have a list in their profile auto block. If I see someone with a list of their posts and their blue Sky block them, I'm a very petty person.
Wait what do you I don't unerstand what you mean.
So what it is is that you can you can do a search on blue Sky and you could do this on Twitter, where it's just your posts, yeah, with no replies. What they're doing is like all my funniest bits. It's like if you have to do a list of your funniest post and not funny, right exactly. And it is interesting and very actually heartening to hear that there is also the honest company side from Twitter.
Yeah.
Yeah, Do you think it's going off to blue sky itzel or is it different?
Yes? I mean, and that's why I mostly do blue Sky now is because it feels the most like like the joke Jim, you know, whereas And I'll look sometimes at threads, which has a I mean, and I'm not very technical, so I don't understand. I don't understand, like
you know, like I likened it once. I actually was on a conference call once with just like kind of different people that like from somebody that i'd done political organizing with was also doing sort of like social media social media, like how do we make social media work for us? And there was this big call about you know, different formats and what's next now that Twitter sucks, and I just said, like I feel like I'm with auto executives and I just want to drive the thing, like
I don't. I don't care about how it works or the different sort of programming behind. I just want to. I want to I want a particular experience. I want to point it in a direction and go in that direction. And so I don't know what Threads is, but I just know that like the way that it shows me, shit is out of order, and you know, and just irritating and lots of let me tell you a four part story about this old man that you know gave
me advice and changed my life. Yeah, and it's just sort of okay, that's nice and all, but you know, where's the jokes, where's the weirdos exactly?
And where's the chaos? Yes, I described it is. It reminds me specifically of a mole in Dallas, Well, the Galleria mole in like a luxury gallery.
I'm glad, that's right. I don't and I'm not being a wise ass. I just you know, no, no, I would want to know if.
That's a thread zaust reply. But it's very luxurious. It's really nice. There's tons of stuff. They no reason to be that. You just go there and you feel your soul Wilt. Yeah, Threads is just weird. I went on there earlier and there was just a post where a guy said, yeah, I had a conversation with a guy and it was just a completely made up conversation with
a person about using Mac products. And there were like eleven replies of people like yeah, and it's like, did you all just get in the same car crash?
Yeah?
Yeah, And it's bizarre. And I think what it is is tech companies don't seem to understand how human beings interact. Yeah, and the more that they wheeld that power to that conference call you're on the moment you try and systematize this stuff, the joy exits immediately.
Yeah. Yeah.
So have you felt like social media change how you do comedy? Though? M like the feedback loop even.
Well, I mean I shouldn't even have paused, because yes, for sure, A big reason, a big thing, a big effect was learning what's not funny anymore? You know, and you might call it wokeness or you know, I mean like learning things. The one that I've always that I is just the one of the most forefront ones is
the M word for little people. And that used to be like, you know, comedy msg if there was a gap, just throw in the m you know, you know, like or tossing and you know somebody you know, and and that, like I say, and I think when when the Conan Show started, I think we use that word and then and I don't know, you know, with words that you don't you know, you don't know what words are hurtful. I mean some of them are quite obg you know
the ones. Yeah, but then there are some that's like, oh, that's hurtful to somebody, Okay, yeah, I can you work around that. I don't. I don't if if anything, that's a challenge, yeah, exactly. And there were other and they
were just other things too. There were there's some that like that where it gets to be a verbiage thing, or there's just scolds that want to scold you for and you know, and also comedy sometimes comedy is really messy and dark and sort of like wait, you know, it's sort of like you're hinting at violence, Like yeah, it's a joke, you know what I mean, it's just made up. And I have learned also too, not just from a sense of you know, sort of uh gracious goodness,
wanting to not hurt people's feelings. There's also like, oh, I could say that, but then if a bunch of fucking people will go crazy, And I don't need that yet. You know, I don't need people wasting my time with scolding me because you know.
And I think that there is this vast division. I know where you land them, that there's the division between what you're talking about, which is like, yeah, there's things that I like. Social media is kind of a good paramata for societal acceptance. Yeah, yeah, we look at society right now and perhaps more things are up for question
I like. But then there's I feel like a with Blue Sky especially, there is a sensitivity on certain subjects writ large and Blue Sky kind of you can get enveloped if you say the wrong thing, yes, or even something that's inspired. And to be clear, this is not some oblique way in which I'm saying I was racist the other day and people got mad. That's not what I'm talking about. Even Like, there's a guy called Mike mas Nick who's on the board of Blue Sky and
he does tech dirt. Great guy. He posted about using AI the other day and people went completely fucking nuts on him just reading stuff he didn't say. And I do think that that is a problem and gets into comedy where people just don't want certain subjects to be up for discussion. And I think some of the most interesting stuff in comedy can come from the more challenging stuff. Again, not talking about race, not talking about sexism. This is
this is not an approval of that. Yeah, And I'm just thinking of dear friend Chloe Radcliffe, great great comedians. This a show called Cheat, which is about her propensity in the past to cheat. It's a dark show, very funny. I think that comedy can go in some incredible directions, and the Internet and just digital production can actually take it in so many different directions. And my problem really is is that social media is right now elevating some
of the shittiest comedy I've ever seen. It's some great comedy, just some of the most just base level just slop because and it's not even people being safe. It more often than not, it's people being deeply rude center right, going like, oh I can't say this anymore. Yeah, yeah, seen to say a slur. And it's it's frustrating because there are more comedians than ever and more doing really interesting shit and I feel like they get drowned out sometimes.
Well, yes they do, and I mean a big reason for that is there was a calculated drive to and I mean, I just I know this from my producer on my podcast telling me that there's actual data about these sort of like Broy stand up kind of run of the mill Broy stand up podcast that is just you know, like I mean, and I can't I'm not saying, because it's like there's a revolving door in my world of like I go on their podcast and they come on my packcast excuse me, and there's a there's the
Broe comedy version of that where it's like, oh, they're always just kind of in a circular thing and the amount of political content has gone through the roof on those because they were all sent talking points and they all would have the same talking points like you know, Kamala Harris can't lead a wartime nation and.
So kind of like an almost like a propaganda poison.
Absolutely in the same way, and it's somehow in the same way. I don't because I've always been amazed and you know, on Blue Sky you don't see it as much. But like the right wing trolls like they get marching orders because they all start seeing the exact same thing at the exact same time. And I'm like, are they unlike a facts list? Like how where when you when you believe you come from? Is it Fox News? Where are they hearing this ship?
You know, it's when you believe in nothing, you just go you, oh, couldn't just agree to the same fight right at the time, you can be like we're mad at bathrooms.
Right well, and also too, it's like I I you know, I believe it. You know, the people say it's a cult and stuff, and like, yeah, all right, I mean, if that's what you want to call it. I mean, nobody's living in a compound and shaving their heads. You know, they're they're they're you know, it's if it's a cult, it's a it's a very loose and free cult that's
wandering around free form. But it is kind of a thing like, no, I've decided that this is where I'm at, So this is this is like there's a very particular kind of person that's a right wing troll that just like there's just a different sort of character choices that sort of boil it down onto its essence and for me, it's things like I don't follow the rules. I make the rules, you know, And that's like that. So then Donald Trump is like, oh my, he's the new plu
ultra of of I don't you know. The rules aren't for me. I make the rules. And that's so it's like if you say, well, wait, that's racist, they're like, no, it isn't you know, Or that's or tariffs are terrible. They are not, you know, And it's just they don't It's like the actual and it's why you can't win. It's why it's you know, I just tread water until you drown, because they don't, you know, the facts and
figures and things and the data don't matter. It's just I'm always going to be entrenched onto my side until their grandmother starps stops getting their checks, and that's around the corner and until you know, the government just sees right right and they don't and they don't get their tax returns, you know, because the mail's broken and the I R. S is broken, or their Social Security payments stopped because it's all fucked up.
So it's a fun story for you. So twice on the show, I've talked about just another instraction for any anti trans people listening. Just another update on my instructions. You should be in the garage. The doors should be closed, the car may not be started yet. Red that engine, baby, Read that engine.
Now.
If you're not getting sleepy, get the tube, go to the exhaust, and then put that bad boy in the window. That's the sleepy juice. You need more of that now. I got several emails from people saying, you can't say that, you can't suggest anti trans people kill themselves, And the answer is, watch me.
Yeah.
And I think I think the whole fucking who's the Joe Rogan of the left thing doesn't make sense. And I think if you break it down into what it is, it's everything you're talking about, which is there is no like insane propaganda unity across the left and also the left. I fucking hate the term as well, because it's like the left. Depending on who you talk to, it refers to like CBS News or Marxists. It's complete medium of
different things. But ultimately it is because people actually have beliefs that they stick to and those can change within distinct groups. That is the right way.
And they also too, don't walk in lockstep on every single issue you know, people have, Like you know, you can think that socialized medicine is a wonderful thing, but you also are you know, because you're Catholic or what for whatever reason, you know, you're you're you know, anti
abortion and that and that. You know, So there's like there's too many varying issues within the liberal whatever you want to call it, the not right world that it's never you don't get locks which is quite you know, which is which is inconvenient.
And also the right, the right wing of really unlock step with what they hate. Yes, and that's the thing is you can hate them like I, I just feel like there is a certain degree of meekness with it. And also when Podsave America is one of the largest,
that's also never a great start. Also another really simple thing is and even think it's been into this as well and others have as well, where it's like there's also not multi billionaires backing every single leftist podcast right, which would be really funny.
That would be awesome if it would be really fun if there was just.
Like billions of dollars going into guys just doing like eighteen hour seasons of podcasts about why made a care for all is necessary. Sadly we don't have that kind of unity in any way and it sucks. And it sucks as well because I think that there is this getting back to comedy as well, there's this assumption with comedy as well. It's like it has to be rude
to be funny. Yeah, it can be tragic, there can be There were and one of my favorite thing, one of my favorite things that made me laugh and I'm not laughing at the event. You're going to know where
I'm going with this. In the second guy did a wonderful stand up thing, not funny, describing, like post nine to eleven, how he his Muslim was horribly mistreated and he was to I'm going to look this up and get the lengthies, like talking about how people hated him, hate other people of color, anyone who was brown with was treated horribly and how it really pushed him towards his faith in unity in this community. And he stops at the end of about a minute a half he goes,
did nine to even work? And it's just like fucking amazing, just like perfectly done. Because someone could scold him if he was not describing his actual experience, right, And it's just I feel like the future of comedy is going to be so fucking weird because both the subject matter and the speed at which things work and happen is so different to how he used to be used to. Actually, here is a question, how did you prepare for the show?
Just a very basic like an for the show? How much work did you have to do, like day to day, day to day.
Well, I was earlier on, you know, like back in the late night days. I was a writer on the show and was expected to do for the first few years as much as any other rider. Like you know. There we had a board that had five, you know, five columns which were the days and then act one, Act two, Act three x four, five x six, and you had to fill them and you know, some of them were filled with guests. There were a guest band and stuff. But you had to fill those spots with
bits that you came up. So they'd put a card in there that would be like, you know whatever, you know, Zoo detective, and it would be up there with your initials, you know, down on the corner. So I was expected to do that. And then there were also like just different bits that kind of were handed to me that that that we they'd come up with a new one. They'd be like, here, you write this, because you're good at writing this particular kind of thing. And then there
was also two I started. I was the first one to do remotes because Robert Smigel, who was running the show, didn't want to send Conan out on remotes because that was very much a David Letterman thing, like the host going out and being the host out in the world, whereas I was kind of going out and being this NiFe, you know, this kind of you know, boy man boy
out in the world. And so I was doing remote and I would have to edit those, you know, I'd come back from the Arkansas State Fair and you know, get off the you know, go to bed and then go into the work the next day and start cutting that piece and working sometimes to you know, three four o'clock in the morning and getting that rink. Was this physical media or was this it was video? Okay, yeah, it was it was video. It was all on big three quarter inch tape.
That was kind of what Yeah, So that's because that.
Wasn't it was not digital back in those days in the nineties.
Because that's the thing. The speed of itseration there and the speed of things happening like it sounds like several days, it's no more. Yes, what's fascinating? Mean, have you ever seen Josh Johnson incredible stand up comedian, so.
The names from I maybe lots of jas in comedies.
This he's on the Daily Show. He's fantastic African American guys, one of the funniest guys. Has this amazing kind of like slow drill everything he does. But I think he might be the future of comedy for one reason. He's I can write. Really, I've never seen anyone who writes that fast other than me and I write newsletters and they swear and all. He will have a new bit about something that just happened immediately. Yeah, he will have like our ten minutes of fucking material, Yeah yeah, and
it will be about ill Muster something he did. He had this amazing thing about there was a lawsuit with a rapper and I can't remember the name now, with just this insane long thing where like a lawyer nearly got censured or like sanctioned, I mean by the judge because he would not reveal something that he shouldn't by law. Nevertheless, it's insane watching these comedians have to go from this thing where they don't know, I'm not a stand up
I know a few of them. It would go up and prepare material, and they'd workshop a bit in open mic nights and they'd try it, and then they have a real show where they do it. Now it's just you have to just fucking burn material all the time. You have to keep it relevantly. Yeah, and it almost feels like it's going to breed in a different kind of comedian, one that can respond just way faster.
Well, yeah, yes, absolutely, And also too, there is there is the real thing with comedians and I'm I'm you know, it's one of the reasons that I'm not a stand up comedian and I'm glad I'm not a stand up comedian, is that because you can't they Well, there's kind of part of me that's like, really can't you Like if
you tell a joke on it. What I was going to say is if you say, if you're there's a bit on Instagram, you it can't go into your hour, right because because that joke has already been heard and been.
Seen this like industry.
Yeah, it's just sort of the what you know, what do they call it common wisdom or whatever you call it, conventional wisdom, That's the phrase I'm looking for. And I've always kind of been like really, you know, And and it's the same reason that they're so protective about people filming them while they're working on stuff, you know, in a club somebody releasing, because then the jokes will be out there, which it's kind of I mean, there's a yes,
I understand it. But on the other hand, I also think, like, I mean, I'm just probably more casual with material, and you know, and because I've come from more of an improv background and never had to like guard, you know, like I'm constantly my card, you know, guard my words, my precious, precious words. But they so they can't do that. That's why you see so much crowd work, because crowd
work is disposable, like and that's why. And you do find, like there's some really fantastic crowd work comedians, you know, that you do see and and they will also sort of I mean, the best ones, the funniest ones, And this is the main point that I want to make about this whole thing. The best ones, the funniest ones. You'll see them doing crowd work, but you'll also see a little bit of their act, Like I'm not afraid
to give you a little bit of their act. And the reason is is because they're artists, right, And the difference between the people that are bitching about like I can't say difficult things anymore is because they don't know how to do it artfully, and the people that are good at it are artists, and they do it artfully. And you can hear the most uncomfortable shit from an artist because they will know how to tell you it in a way that resolves itself.
And it's not inherently exploitative or walking yes, because that's the thing with all of these comedians, are like, oh, you can't say this anymore, then find something fucking else. Absolutely, isn't this your goddamn job.
The notion that you can't do comedy is just demonstrably false. There's comedy fucking everywhere. What are you talking about?
And life is more absurd than it's ever been. Yeah, I mean doing this show, well, I'm not a comedian. I'm funny in the other way. It's but even within the tech industry, it's just like right now, and you're not a techi guy. You've got just like multiple multi billion dollar companies, trillion dollar companies chasing AI in this direction where like they all lose money and no one really wants it, right, It's inherently fuckinghilarious. It's also very
grim to watch. But watching these kind of like damn little weirdos and freaks walk around and say stuff that no human beings should believe about making calls, it is funny. And there's so much I don't want to say joy, because there's a lot of misery right now, but there's so much different thing. There's so many different things that
you can make material from. I choose Josh Johnson because he's even moved into some tech stuff because guess what, everything is approachable from a human position if you don't know well, and it's just like, oh, if I can't be racist or sexist anymore amount of things, what do you fucking do with your day?
Man?
You just go around just like dropping slurs and insulting. Yeah, I mean, now that I think about it, probably that's what guys do.
And it's also just like it's it's people that want to recycle old tropes, you know, like about for fucking women you know, or you know or in a yeah he's cross dressers or whatever, you know, like they just want to They're not coming up with anything new. They're just regurg you to this sort of zeitgeist that guys with backward baseball caps are going to go woo at animal.
And it's inherently also kind of regressive because it's not really all it says about them is man. You know what would be funny if I said something hurt for and I'm not meant to do that, right, which is what makes it funny. What was weird, though, is you wanted you wanted to have a really horrible experience. Try watching Family Guy. It is insane that that show aired. Just to any listeners. I don't really recommend watching it, but Family Guy was insanely sexist, racist, like they say
actual slurs on there. It's crazy what used to be. And I have to wonder if some of these right wing comedians or even just kind of like people would wouldn't say that that was their identity. I just like watching Family Guy and things like I'm being like, we used to be able to just do entire episodes about Peter Griffin being Mexican, and that is an actual episode of Family Guy. By the way, there is an entire plot where he's an illegal immigrant. It's fucking insane. It
is insane. What used to be considered funny and aired on TV.
Yeah.
In fact, there was a show called Black White. Have you heard of this? There was a show on Fox in like two thousand and five where a white family got blacked up, like full black face. It's insane, and then a black family got whited up and it was called black White. The world is insane. The world is actually insane. When you look like we have. It might not feel like we've come for, but we have.
Yeah. On that SNL that fiftieth thing, you know, they did sort of what I found to be a very interesting little segment and also sort of you know, sort of they didn't have to like share their dirty laundry, right, but it was just a little montage of their incredibly rape past racist things go Asian and Asians and you know, Latinos and just really create and sexist stuff.
You know, I get why they did that, but I personally wouldn't have I would have probably not not put that.
I mean, I liked it because I thought, like, like I said, it seemed it's like it acknowledged the past. Yeah, it was like somebody saying I used to make mistakes and I and I learned from them and I don't do them anymore, which I always yeah, and also too, Is that what they said though? I think so? I hope so I think that's what they meant.
I haven't watched.
I don't think they were saying like, we can't get away with this anymore. But even because it's so these bits are so shitty, I think.
I think more what I'm suggesting is what frustrates me with things like that. And I have not watched it, so I'm sure someone will email me saying I'm wrong. It happens even when I'm right. If it's just them showing it without making any commentary, that pisses me off because it's just like, ah, we shouldn't do this again.
Well they did preface it, they like, can you believe we used to do this kindness?
That's kind of cool. I like that, so somewhat subject change. So AI have you used any of this?
I have not.
I keep thinking like, oh, because I don't hear people, you know, there are because there aren't aspects to say, chat GPT that are interesting to me. Like I have spaghetti, a green pepper, you know, tamarin sauce. What do I do with it? And it'll give you a recipe and you know, like that's like that's pretty neat, you know.
And then like I was just listening. I'm a Howard Stern listener, and he was messing around with it, and he asked chat GPT because he's learning guitar and he had some new guitar and it was the strings are making his fingers black. So he asked chat chat GPT, why is my new guitar making my fingers black? And chat GPT says, there's a you know, an oil that's
on there from the factory. That's a protective oil to keep the strings from rusting, and so you know, if you wipe it with a dry cloth, it should be good. And I thought, okay, that's pretty cool, you know, like like to ask a question like that. I don't want it to write your fuck and papers.
That's the thing.
I don't want it to. Yeah, I don't want to watch a movie that just was made up out of a machine mind. And I don't. I just have to believe that it it won't be like that, like and if it if that is, if it is like that, that is a long, long long way away, you know.
And that's the thing that I am very anti. And as part of the show, I have dug into open a I a great deal and yeah, bad company and all that. I think. What's funny about all of these descriptions is I try and ask people who are not super technical about this whole time, what do you use it for? And every single person describes Google Search if it worked. It's like, what if Google search all absolutely? What if there was a website where you could ask it something.
Or if maybe if Siri wasn't stupid.
Yeah, And what's funny is they've added that I have you you've got an iPhone? Yeah, so you've seen Apple Intelligence then.
I I mean I have not. I have not attempted it because I've heard some you've turned off. I don't know if I've turned it off or not. But well, I do get a thing where it makes that sort of like purple glow around ye wanting to do something eye and I just ignore it. You know.
That's the thing though, It's when then it's suggesting me texts, which are not good response.
Now I've they're almost never.
I had a friend telling me about a really bad relationship thing and it said, that's disappointing. It's like, I don't think that would have helped him.
You fucked that up?
You more?
Yeah, yeah yeah.
But and it's it does feel like they're just selling us back something that works because the SERI does not work better. It works worse.
Now. I used to be able to I use I think so too.
My big thing I use this for with Siri was just reminder us, and I use them constantly. It'll be like I will think of something at eleven thirty pm and I'll mutter it and it will work. Now it works like eighty percent of Oh really, it used to work nineteen percent of the time. But everything with describing has been here for ten years. Other than maybe the no no the string thing, if you I'm sure if he googled that, it would have worked too.
Yeah.
It's just it's very depressing because oh.
Yeah, absolutely, if you googled black residue on guitar strings, it would come up. Yeah yeah yeah.
And it's and the things I've found it useful for and my listener is going to beat my ass for this. I don't even use chat GPT because fuck that shit. But large language models, when I've used them, have been like, break down this complex paragraph of financial crap, explain it in plain English. I will then have to go and verify that independently because they do not trust this shit. But it's interesting how the long and short of it
is is what if Google Search was slightly bad? What if Google's what if we had a website for questions?
Yeah?
And it worked? And then Google's ideas they just they're doing AI overviews now and they just added a new kind. And now Google's idea is, what if we worked kind of and it was way more expensive? Would you like that? We don't care?
Yeah?
Profits up?
Yeah? And what if it used all the energy unearthed?
Yes?
What if it boiled small lakes and required us to steal from every person forever? It's just see this is and that's the thing. It's frustrating to watch because this whole the whole thing with the show that's doing this show has been like what hoping things would get better and watching them get worse and putting aside dose and all that crap happening in the real world. Yeah, it doesn't feel like the tech is doing stuff to help us anymore. Like it doesn't feel fun. Do you. You're
not a technical person, but you like gadget size. You may still dick around with computers and such and a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, I mean not so much as I used to.
When did that stop?
Just as I got older and I and I you know, and I got divorced and then got remarried, and I have a five year old. Now I have a twenty four year old and nineteen year old and a five year old. Nice five year old takes up a lot of times, you know. So I mean and also too, I'm fifty eight now, and and I you know, it's like nobody wants to watch my shows, you know, in my dad my shows are very dad show, like The Spot,
the CIA Spy shit right not Reacher. Reacher is just basically about like I've heard it describes as like what if a guy was really big?
What if a giant was shown? Yeah? Yeah, but the new season, I have a bigger guy.
I know, I'm really big, fellow, I saw that, But I mean, but I you know, like, uh, the agency and Paradise and those kind of shows, and then also too things like Traders, but Traders I'll watch with my wife, but she won't watch these other ones. They're too stressful. So once every everybody goes to bed, they go upstairs about like eight thirty nine o'clock. I'm good for maybe an hour of watching something. So I'm not going to be on at I'm not going to be playing video games,
right because A I'm a little too old. And this isn't exactly right. I just didn't I never got good at them, right, and so, and I don't know whether I just didn't have a facility for them, and and I did have an experience because I was given and I don't even remember. I think it was early Xbox, possibly maybe a PlayStation. And uh, it was early in my time in New York City, a couple of years after I've been living there. And there was a game called road Rash. Yeah you remember that.
I remember.
I remember a motorcycle race where you could hit hit each other with stuff nice and so, and this is we're probably talking to nineteen ninety five six.
Oh so okay, so that was the original.
I'm talking the original that.
Like a probably a psycha genesis.
Maybe I don't I don't remember, but it was something. It was swag.
I know.
I don't think I very and I don't mean to be a dick. It's just like when you're on TV, people just give you free shit, and when it's like and when you're not on TV and when you really need free shit, nobody's there to give it to you.
Ryan.
But that's you know. So I had this this game system, played road Rash, and my sister in law, my ex wife's younger sister, was living with us at the time, and she and I would play road Rash and I would I would think like, wow, we've been playing for about an hour, and it would be five hours.
Oh yeah, four or five.
And I just was like this is not good. This yeah yeah, this is just like that much loss of time for me because I already my you know, one of my lifelong self critiques is is you're not doing enough, Like what don't you do more? You lazy fucker, get off your ass and do something. Your life would be better if you had more initiative. So to introduce a like justin actual time suck, Yeah, I was like, no, no, this I cannot do this. I mean, and I you know, and I you know, I I haven't I quit now.
But you know, I, throughout my life have smoked weed too. And that was enough. You know, that was like enough. It's like to me, it felt like like weed crack. That's what the game like, what gaming felt to me. It's like, this is because weed is such kind of like a little vacation from yourself. At least that's what it was for me. Yeah. Yeah, And and the game was just like this is a vacation this I don't I'm I don't exist.
And road Rush absolutely ru Yeah.
Yeah, it was really fun because when you said.
PlayStation Xbox, they did remake it at some point the game, you see, you get given free shit. I get given emails emails from people correct to me about when road Rash came out. No, I love my listeners.
I deeply love them.
Actually, that's an interesting thing. It's slight different thing. So I was having a conversation with some on it. Eric Silvery's over Multitude Productions used to be a client of mine production podcast student. He brought up a thing about podcasting. I'm actually quite curious to run by you. How do you feel about with podcasts, especially you seem like a more positive guy. It feels like there's this weird thing with him podcasts of just hating the audience.
Like a derision for them, is there?
Yeah, okay, so maybe not.
No. I mean I I am not a very good podcast consumer. And as I already mentioned, I listened to Howard Stern and that takes up a lot of my podcast and that's you know, that's since the early nineties, right right, I've been listening to Howard Stern. So it's my it's my ongoing soap opera comedy show, you know, Peeping Tom, Voyeuristic, look at all these weird ods. So it takes up a lot of my time. And so
I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. And again I think that's kind of like I'm kind of older and I just and it's I will listen to some, like you know, there's some that I have that I do listen to occasionally and enjoy, but but it's usually like like I just recently was listening to Jamie Loftus is doing something called The Sixteenth Manager.
We're on Cool Zone Media.
She's a coworker. Oh wow, cool. Yeah, And then, you know, because it was just well, she's really great, yes, you know, and she's an incredibly talented person, and and it is really interesting, like it's an interesting topic and it's and almost all of them are of interest to me, whereas there's lots of other podcasts where it's like, oh, that's you know, sort of like the old Hollywood kind of ones.
There will be one that I'm like, that is fascinating, and then another one like I don't give a shit about that one, you know, So it's you know, and that does.
Actually lead somewhere far more interesting than my original question, which is it feels like the format of podcasts has kind of it's actually growing in something far more interesting because Sixteenth Minutes started a few months after Better Offline,
I think. And what Jamie does for the listeners who haven't heard and I assume you have because she's advertised on here and so on and so forth, is Jamie will find like an Internet celebrity of the day, like a dress or bone, yes she got ken bone on the show, and then she'll do kind of an episode kind of like Better Offline listeners when I get extremely pissed off at open AI, imagine if that was about
something that mattered, oh was fun? Neither of which, And it's it's interesting watching this format because it's changed comedy in the sense that now Instagram is basically you have to constantly hit them with the highlight reels. With podcasts, it's people feel trapped in these different formats that really
do them a disadvantage. Because Jamie does great things in her show Molly Conger as well with Weird Little Guys Cool Zoneer's got this cool format of kind of just talking through a script and a story with a guest, sometimes not with the guests. But I almost feel like podcasting could return to something like Howard Stern. I think like having you and studio is so much better, and I think I'm yeah, as a pro remote work guy,
I feel bad saying this. It almost feels like we do need to get back to, perhaps not exactly what Howard Sterne does, perhaps not exactly, but getting back to what made broadcast actually good, which is narrative style shows or in studio fucking actual conversations that are well produced, that have guests that know in like each other and actually are ready to do an interesting show. It's the only reason Howard stuns. He's actually a good broadcast to however you feel about him.
Oh no, well, there's no question. Yeah, I mean the proof is in the fact.
That he's still here.
Somehow he is still the more the biggest broadcaster there is, really.
You know, the more things changed to all they stay the same.
Yeah.
Do you how are you finding podcasting though, because how is it different to what you've been used to?
Well? For me, uh, it's and I don't mean to be like whiny about my career, like I'm not acting enough, like you know, like I'm not there's just not a lot of work out, you know, and when the when the Conan Show went off the air, you know, there's things here and there, but there's just not enough stuff. And especially and again I'm not like I'm not complaining
about like the state of woe Hollywood. I'm a fifty eight year old white man in there's yeah, there's a few of us, you know, so it's like you just you know, you're I don't. I don't doubt that I am going to be working for the rest of you know, until I want to stop, basically, and I and I do believe that, like I always believe that somebody hires me there, that's a good thing, like I mean for them, for them, yeah, for them, No, I mean I will,
I will give them value for whatever they're paying. Right. And But I started doing podcasting sort of cuz, you know, like just because just you know Conan. Well, honestly, uh, the way that it happened, I had people, uh on my team, which I love saying, because my team we're it's quite a team. We haven't met in years, but
they still exist, I guess. But I had I've had people say you should do a podcast, you should do a podcast, right, And there is something to it because I am when I think about, you know, the fact I am in comedy. That's my main thing. And one of the ways that I am funny is in conversation. And that's hard to you kind of saw on on Conan, but in just like sort of little pieces, but like in a longer conversation, I can be funny, you know. And and I and I you know, know how to
keep a conversation going. So they were telling me you should you do a podcast, and I felt just sheepish about it because I have friends like Scott Ackerman, who does comedy Bang Bang and Jimmy Pardo who does never not funny, and those guys are real, Like I did their podcasts and I was like, what is a podcast? When I was doing their podcast, they were you know,
very early pioneers of whatever this thing is. So I felt like I would just be in like the diletanti ish fucking you know, TV boy coming in with it. You know, yeah, like build like I can do it too kind of thing. So I just was kind of embarrassed to do it. But then you know, it.
Was the first white boy to be embarrassed by podcasting.
But I just thought there was a certain point where I thought, you know what, it would be good. And also too, it was like a point in my life when I just was trying just try to I just I had a big moment where I was like I need to say yes to things, I need to try things, and and so I thought, yeah, let's do a podcast. And I came up with the concept for the Three
Questions podcast. And I started to do it, and I you know, I listened to it and made you know, sort of corrected and studied myself and thought about the things that I didn't like what I was that I was doing and the things that I did like that I was doing, and eventually, over those six years i've
been doing it, got better at it. Right now, I feel very confident in my ability to do an hour long interview that is very much listenable, funny, interesting, thought provoking, sometimes even and very much worth people's time.
And it's not it's not always comedy.
It's not always comedy. Yeah, it's not always comedy. And there's a part of me, and this is just my old TV brain, there's part of me it's like, Wow, I've gotten good at this one thing. I'm not going to be Charlie Rose. What the fuck is it?
Like?
You know, like, yeah, I'm I'm I know how to interview me. Well, no, I know, but I mean but it's like, you know, I know how to interview people. But it's at the same time that like literally thousands of other people have learned how to interview people. And I mean, I'm not and I'm it's it's just like it's it's not and I don't mean to. I enjoy it. It's a fun thing, but I if if I got a busy, if I got busy acting, I would put
podcasting aside. And that's just the way it is, you know, I mean, and that's just my preferences, you know.
That makes sense. And it's interesting though, because it's like you moved into this little broadcast career because there was space and that's what the internet to do.
And I'm doing a radio show now.
Yeah, actually the radio show. Do you go into studio every time?
I do?
I do?
And And it was originally sort of like the conception was. And also because doing something live in the serious studios is it like technically it's a much more complicated thing than just going in and recording something. So when we when we first came, well, they came to me and they were like, we want to do more. We want the Conean channel to have some actual sort of radio content rather than just be old clips of the show and podcasts.
And rare content being like interviews.
Like a call in show that was They said, do you want to do a call in show? And I was like, fuck, yeah, that sounds fun. That sounds like, you know, I get to play radio.
You know.
And and then so they came to me and like, we want you to do something. I was like and they said, you know, like they were like, maybe more of the three questions, and I was like, I don't want to do more, you know, I do like once a week is plenty of that podcast. But then they said call in show. I was like, oh fuck, yeah absolutely, And I was like and I would just have be silly topics that like you know, cocktail party conversations, you know, like yeah we just recently did like you know, when's
the last time you shit your pants? Kind of stuff, and or dating disasters or medical nightmares and just just you know, meant to be sort of and there's something you know, there's some people like why do you focus on all these on all these dark things. That's like I don't because that's how I made, you know, yeah yeah. And it's like what if I want to talk about you know, like when's the last time you were inspired by someone's good deeds? Fuck that, I don't care about that.
I want to hear you shit your pants?
Or if it's like fun stuf like happy fun stories can be fun, like you can laugh about you know, there's actually vanishingly few of them, Like I've been working on, uh of my newsletter at the moment, which people are going to really thrilling stuff about diet sentence you gonna love this at it but one of the most magical experiences when it's always work. So I want to about
their friends kaisekiawah amutually seeing tonight and things. I finally got to realize where he comes from, because he will get go down these rabbits holes with my rabbits holes. Jesus Christ, rabbit holes, rabbit holes. There we go, rabbits holes, and he would go down these rabbit holes, except he's like, you should email my mother, and his mother's in some sort of finance. So I've now got both his mother and him sending me links about the same thing. See,
that's a kind of lovely fun story that can be told. Yeah, However, the funniest stories are things like me moving the arm on my tone and smacking myself right in the nutsag it's like going, oh see that's funny, or like when you shot your pants actually don't know, like twenty years
ago anyway, less about that the better. But it's something that strikes people of this that's really funny is despite all of the technology, despite the fact that everyone could podcast and broadcasts all the same, what we are describing is basic broadcast fundamentals seem to actually be very fucking interesting. That's what people really come to. We want connection, We want to hear the absurdity of life.
As the radio died, all of what the radio was filled with just came over here. People talking about stuff, learning about you know, you being a listener, learning about stuff, you laughing, you know, you crying, you know, you hearing creepy stuff, you know, gossipy stuff. That's just it was just the radio, and now it's the radio over here, and it's you know, and the one things I think I think about it. It's the same thing with streaming, you know, TV network TV is I mean, who fucking
watches network telling? I watched some of it the other you know, it's it's a it's astounding sometimes.
You know, I think Blue Bloods is on every channel.
It's just you know, yeah, it's except it's.
Really fictional because the police off its to solve crimes in it.
It's there's all kinds of cop shittwork. TV is just like cop worship, you know, and they solve crimes and it's like grown up Paul Patrol. But TV, you know, moved to streaming. And somebody pointed out because streamings, aren't you know? These companies pour a ton of money into streaming and then they go, okay, now how do we get that money back out? And they all go, I don't know. I don't more subscriber bazillion people on here, so they don't know how to get the money back out.
So they start talking about advertising. Right, So we're just like, okay, we're just back to television then, but like somebody, I don't even remember who. I should have remembered who, because it was an excellent point. We've gone back to the broadcast model, advertising paying for it, except all the worker protections have been blown up, and all of the money, yes, all of the money is going to like they are small places, you know. Yeah, it's and it's the same
with podcasts. Yes, radio died, You've got podcasting and well you know, podcasting is surviving on advertising dollars. Email.
Oh, did anyone, by the way, you one of the listeners who emailed me about the ai ads that run after the air? I know one hundred and fifty of you email me every extent. Did you hear the ai ad? I know you are not the first person to tell me I'm now going to get thirty emails being like handy.
Now. I like that they think that you're so like royal that you don't even know who's advertising on your show.
And I even if I didn't know, I would know now because I also get a fair amount of very nice email, So I can't complain.
But you do, Yes, it's very evident that you do.
But it's I think what it is is like what you're saying with with podcasting, it's the advertising has to drive it. I know people who have started podcasting like, shit, I can't make this work because like where do I get the money from reader pledges? And it's like what a surprise, There's not actually that many people will pay for stuff, right And I think that that's the one of the bigger problems in media right now. There are things that people will pay for this four or foot
four media. In tech, there's defector in sports, like there's some really great complications like that, and flaming hydro as well another great one. But at scale it doesn't exist, and I don't think it exists for podcasts like you have like thirty podcasts that can make money on the read it thing. Yeah, And it's just it's frustrating. And also I don't know if it's fixable. I don't know if there's a way of making the patron model work, even though it's the one that's the most honest.
Uh.
I have no input on those things I have. That is so even beyond me, and I don't I'm terrible with business and stuff. I mean, I understand making things entertaining, right and I and that's that's it for me. And that's whenever I've been approached about a television show and they're like, we wish more young women would watch, I'd be like, well, I don't know. I mean, I guess.
I mean one of my shows that was an actual note and it just seemed to come out the other end of just like lots of scenes of the characters telling each other how much they liked each other, which I just just point a certain point. I was like, is that is that it? And it just seemed like what the woman do? Just it sticks?
Women have emotions. It's no when we did the because a lot of what we're talking about is just kind of broadcast fundamentals at some point. And so we did a long thirteen and a half hours in five days at CES big consumer it's called the Consumer Electronic Show. Yeah, a big thing we got.
I did a remote there.
If you're ever in, you'll join us? Yeah, no, please. But the big thing I did was we're talked about loving everyone, like the fact that we had friendship and all this thing. We got so many emails being like, it's so nice to hear people saying they like each other. Oh. Absolutely, yeah, And you have to wonder if some of these shows the big problem is they're like, how do we get young women to listen to this? What like, have you tried fucking asking one? Have you tried asking a woman?
You're like, noah, no, no, no, you can't do that. Yeah, we have to focus group it and there'll be a bird in there. I think it's just it's And then even with podcasts that don't do well, and they're like, why is this not doing well? Does it suck?
Yeah?
Is it boring? Because the other side of it is there are a ton of podcasts that don't bother to try that just they saw the I don't know, trap a trap house or something like, oh, there's just a bunch of guys talking. But when you get down to the core of it, it's like esscentually people who like each other and enjoy being in this chemistry.
Les. Yes, it's just they're good talkers.
Yes, yeah, yeah, they're good talking and words and such. Well. Andy, it's been such a pleasure having Oh, thank you.
It's been really a fun and interesting conversation.
So where can people find you?
My podcast, The Three Questions, which is available at your podcast store. I will put the Ladies in there as well, and the in the same feed, you will get replays of my call in show, which is on Serious XM Wednesdays one pm Pacific What would there be four pm Eastern, usually live, sometimes to tape, but lately it's just been live because we've been able to and I've been getting get I have a great guest host, usually somebody really funny, cool,
and it's somebody that I want to be there. That's That's the nice thing about my show too, is like there's never somebody that's just like you got to talk to these person. Yeah, So it's a it's one of the most fun hours of my week, which I have always felt that if you have fun, your viewer or listener will have fun. You have if you genuinely have fun, so that's on on Sirius XM channel one oh four, which is the Conin channel. And I love I and I mean honestly, I'm I am an early adopter of
satellite radio and I love satellite radio. I have it in my car. I listen to it on my phone, and not just because of Howard, but it's like, it's great. There's a very very sort of niche specific music channels and that's totally up my alley.
Tell yeah, yeah, well, I've had a lovely time and you're going to get this thing off to this. It's a recording that I recorded at the beginning of the show, and I like my swagger and boldness. I will then promise that I'm going to re record this. Mattasowski, my producer, will hear this and he'll say, oh, it's gonna do it this time. I probably won't. Nevertheless, I love you all for listening. Thank you so much, Thank you for listening.
To Better Offline.
The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T T O, s O W s KI dot com. You can email me at easy at Better offline dot com or visit better Offline dot com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat dot Where's youreed dot at to visit the discord, and go to our slash.
Better Offline to check out our reddit.
Thank you so much for listening.
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.
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