CES 2026: Part Four (Wednesday)

Also media, someone through a portal to the podcast to mention I am ed Zitron and this is better Offlines coverage of the Consumer Electronic Show. It's goddamn Wednesday, and we're here at the goddamn Palazzo Hotel and beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada all week with an open bar, tacos and the

Filled half a can of liquid death all over myself.

In this I bought an entire can over this tape yesterday.

It like exploded because it froze.

Anyway, mister Longuso Junior and Junior Jesus Christ, I'm keeping going. Thank you for joining me. Take Bubble newsletter of course. Thank you thank you, happy to be here, and you've got a star of Is this thing on Chloe Radcliffe? Yes, comedian as well, that's right all this intro and Cole stand up comedian host of the Factually podcast Adam.

Connove, Hello, thank you for having me.

So it sounds like you've all been on the convention flaws and based on the little I've heard, real bang of day, Chloe, you got some free stuff.

The very first booth that I walked into was a dongle that basically makes you be able to air drop between Mac and PC things.

Huh and I do.

Yeah, super useful and it's like adorable. I truly was magneted over because I was like, the word dongle is really funny and I wonder if I can make some jokes out of that. And then I saw it and was like, oh, this actually kind of rocks, and uh, I have I feel like an asshole saying I have an assistant, but I have an assistant and she uses a PC laptop but a MAC phone, And I was like, oh, I think I would like to buy this for her

Let me send them, let me take a photo of your badge whatever.

And truly my eyes like popped out of my skull, went cash dollars rolling through my eyes, and I was like.

I can get free things.

The corner is on.

Yeah, And so then I started trying to go over and like like show interest in things that I might want, and most of them did not involve for it.

Just walking up to the eighty seven inch TV you want?

Yeah, Wow, that's so nice.

I love that, just kicking, just looking eyes with them.

I love this.

Give it to me, my my badge, says digital content creator. That's what you want, right, you want me to create digital content about your four thousand dollars TV.

Right?

You like this? You pick?

Give it to me.

So aside people not giving you stuff for free, anything interesting.

Uh, there was.

Well, so I really got gummed down. I spent too much time on the accessories.

They were great.

There was one actually a booth that was had a super useful like travel uh a wireless charger that like flips out. It looks like a like a makeup compact actually, and there's a wireless charger for your phone, and a wireless charger for your AirPods and a little baby one for your Apple Watch.

Right, And I.

Don't use those three things, but my boyfriend does. And so I was, oh, fuck Christmas presents.

This is awesome.

Great, I'm just starting to make Christmas presents list on the CEES floor, which actually seems like the best possible.

Yeah, that that is what it should be.

You should walk around and go, oh, stocking stuffers, little googaws that will make Grammy happy. Yeah, like consumer Electronics expo.

Yeah, yeah, it is for it is at a retail level for the consumers, me and my family. And but then at that same booth where I was, so I was like really owed by this, the little flip open k Wiler sharger.

And then a guy.

The guy was walking me around and he was showing me the other things that they have whatever whatever, other char power blocks and charging. And then another guy at that same booth came up and there's I have a photo of it, but it's probably not worth showing. They have a little set of power banks in the back that's like pastel colors. And I didn't look at that and go, oh power banks for girls. I didn't gotta

It's not.

It's just a power bank. But I again, this is not a thought that I had. But the second guy walks up and he goes, it looks like a foundation, clearly with the tone of like, you're a lady, you will like that.

Now there's a guy who knows makeup. Yes, it looks like conquila.

He worked for the product.

He worked for the company.

For the company, yeah, I And I went, oh, yeah, it looks like a foundation, and he like doubled down on it and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think you'd like it.

It looks like a foundation.

And I went, oh, so these are for these are the power banks for girls, and he went yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're for girls.

And I think the first guy.

Who I was talking to you understood that I hated what was going on, like that I was having fun and sort of mocking the whole thing, but he couldn't step in and stop it, and the guy who I was mocking fully did not track what was going on.

I love that.

I love that there's still like it's like nineteen ninety five and like, what if computer for woman? Yes, woman, they're using this thing now, the birds truly.

I he kept doubling down and tripling down so hard on it that I eventually pointed, we're still standing in front of power banks for girls, and I pointed to one on the end that it was black, and I went, see this one, I go, what is that?

No dog?

I literally hit my forehead with them.

But this one, I go, that makes me happy.

The first guys like humiliated.

I was like, I'm sorry, but your coworker is really fucking annoying.

That's so good.

I love that.

I love that they're still doing shit like that.

It was crazy.

I mean, it reminds me of when I purchased in twenty thirteen a twenty ten used Prius Prius the Prius dealership and the guy is driving around me and my girlfriend at the time, and she's in the back. I'm the one purchasing the car. But he turns to her and he goes. So Toyota actually pulled a thousand women on what they would like in the car and so there's a place to put your purse right here, like under the console. And she hated that so much she talked about that for ten years.

Don't look at her and say.

We've we asked your kind.

We lost one thousand woman and that is it. We no more, no need to do. It's just I don't know, without without being too preach about It's like it's twenty twenty five at this point.

It's like pink is for girls, blackest for boys.

Yeah, this will fit in your handbag, which you don't appear to have.

All of this shit fits in my head. It's all very small.

Yeah, it's like like were the go Ones smaller and thinner or they just colors they were it was just pink and purple.

And see they gotta go. They gotta go further than that when they make it like super girly. Like I went to the Razor booth and they had this is an old product, but they had the headphones with the caddiers. Yeah that's I feel like that's not so bad because that's like, you know, if you're super if you're like a fucking egirl twitch streamer and you like you your whole you know, streamer room is hello, kitty shit right.

You know.

It's like I would say, I would say that headphones with caddiers is the third gender.

Artistic.

I would love these guys could be like.

Hey, it's like my.

Headphones are the exact ones.

I looked, and I looked for hours and hours and hours, and I tried several of them, and I talked to multiple friends and then I found the perfect one and they weren't perfect, so I returned them and tried another one and then they were perfect.

Yeah, that's the fourth gender.

Just diagnosed.

I'm fresh. I'm fresh to listeners, the listeners who have been trying to diagnose me for two years, Like finally, I mean, I'm finally edified.

Yeah, oh god, So okay.

I just want a vendor to look at me and be like, you know, plays a little wrap.

You know, this goes in your sneakers, sneakers you into those oh god.

Instead, when I roll up, they look me up and down, they see the press card, and then they immediately direct their press person over like uh, they're a bodyguard.

And forced. Well if I asked, like two questions, but how does this work, They're like.

Oh, yeah, he'll tell you, He'll tell you money.

Here they did.

Yeah, it's so set again, it's twenty twenty five in this to like, whoa okay, one of you guys.

My goal has basketball, Yeah, that I gotta find. I'm gonna find someone to riff with. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's my goal in this this convention. Not to find a product I like, but someone who someone who won't be a little scared.

Yeah, will be too scared.

Oh yeah, actually will get nervous. Someone's just like I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I've never I've meant tons of people like you. Yeah, but wait, what did you see today?

What anything funny?

I mean, it was nothing interesting. I circled back.

To nothing, a really funny review.

Of another good tech line for the show.

Nothing that's really interesting.

I circled back to a lot of the age tech and kind of AI health companion stuff because I was interested in seeing, Okay, maybe if I have a little bit more of a conversation with them and then get them to explain what the agent part means, or to explain that use cases I may find something interesting, but it was just more of the same.

Uh.

You know, there's one firm I circled back to, like I think their name is ali Q that is really really big on elderly companions, right, and trying to have something that your grandparents can talk to that may or may not cause like chatbot psychosis if they spend a lot of time talking.

To be is it like a thing on the computer.

It is just like a big old kind of looking like an ORB, like a big old like a big ORB, and some sensors around it and the pad that you get to talk to and type in.

Grandma loves to commune with the or.

You know. Yeah, like your old granny told me, was God your friends.

In the computer?

You know, I'm never alone now that I have my So you have to log in.

To talk to someone.

Essentially you're going to work.

You got to sit at your desk and be like, hello, are you doing all? There's a person at the end of a chat. But it's a chatbot. That's so sad. And this chatbot is supposed to interface to the outer world, trained on old people speak like what.

It says the YouTube the TV TV volume max.

It has the same conversation.

It is too cold in here.

It's also I do.

Agree that young people don't work enough.

So instead of push notifications or you know, it basically has push and notifications that are like, let's start a conversation. So you'll be doing your thing and be like, hey, I want to talk to you. Technology to harass your bread.

No literally, I know so many grandparents who would take that out back and.

Hit it with us.

Can you imagine all they want is not to be bothered.

Yeah, I'm just imagining.

My My grandfather passed like twenty years ago, even like way before URMs, just imagining Ken. He was a sign pat in Dorset and born and trit catch Bob made England, and he would have just he would have beat the funk out of.

This one minute.

He would be like touching that, I'm not touching and beat it with a stick.

He would have loved that.

Actually they sent the machines to watch us. Oh, I don't even say. He'd just be like offended by an orb he has to talk to.

So if we wanted to go down the pub.

Did you guys see the booth for for tom Bought Incorporated.

I saw it from afar and it looked so terrifying and I.

Didn't like a little dog puppet and it's booth is like a living room and it's got framed photos of the dog puppet and a and like a what is a sampler sort of cross stitch thing that says a pet for people who can't have pets, okay, And then there's like a lady dressed up like a granny and she's holding the puppet. I didn't really see what it does. Presumably it's just like an AI dog. It's just it's just a sad guy just sort of.

Sitting there was a natural fellow.

There's like a fella sitting in there. He's like, a yeah, he looks like he's bummed out. He's just sort of sitting there like zone. It like dissociating, petting the dog and settied up and like it could be it could be useful, but it's also like it's such a bummer just to be like this is for it's very elderly people who've lost their ability.

And I'm like fifty to fifty on those because I can kind of see like there's it's been proven that's helpful. I've heard good things but the time just like you're too you're too old or sick to take care of an animal.

It's great, like seeing a whole booth of that. And then the guy they paid to.

Just sit their old day. Yeah bad, Yeah, you look depressed. You feel bad for the demo. You're watching the demo and you're like, oh, it's too bad that this guy has to sit there and put that fake dog. He doesn't look happy about it, whereas when people are with a real dog they're so happy.

That's such a good point. Surely he would want to be like, hell, yeah I have Oh I love my dad.

This dog is okay.

He's like, no, just to wait waiting here until the sun holds me in a week.

I've seen the studies that you're talking about. They're also true of plants. Like when you give plants in like the nursing home, they give them plan they bring like kiddies in. Like it's not it's not a particularly unsolved problem. Look, we do need more technology for old people. I've always thought like the Wii was such a hit for old people,

Is quite did we go out of business?

Nintendo is still in business.

Yeah, they're still made up. They occasionally make a game like that. But though WI was like this moment where they developed a new way to control a video game and a game that was very simple and resembled games people already knew, and it was like this perfect thing that people had never played a video game, especially elderly people to like figure it out. And then it just sort of wasn't popular enough among the core gaming audience and they stopped making that type of game.

It was also tough to develop for as well, and it was really expensive. The controllers were weird. You have to have like a weird bower above. You think it was just like a lovely idea that just would not scale.

Ever, you think you think not. I think maybe it needed a different company to make. I think about this a lot.

Kind of done it with the switch, with the control, with the controls, it's not the same.

Yeah, but you're saying a company that's not motivated by the youth gaming sector. Yeah, company that like doesn't doesn't need to win the most billions of dollars, that like could operate at.

A sea I guess literally a company that's like trying to get contracts with with senior homes.

Yeah, my favor.

Schools.

I feel like at this point kids want things that feel digital but don't absolutely melt their brain.

The thing is, though, like the I think we're describing the problem of the modern state of capitalism where it's like, oh, a company doesn't need to grow forever. I'm never gonna fund that bullshit. Are you're gonna make consistent money?

Fuck you?

I will say I did find a weird one where it was just one of these one of nine hundred different companions. It was just these horrible little things wheeling around.

Like Teddy Tubby's. But what was interesting was someone.

Had a dog, like a leaving dog, and he was just going fucking batshit and I was like, this fucking rocks. And then someone went and picked up the dog. If they just had a booth, when I had a dog going nuts on these things booth where a dog gets

I feel like we need So there's the Edinburgh Festival, which is in Edinburgh, Scotland, and it's a big performing arts festival. And then there is the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, which grew up as a like people who were rejected from the core Edinburgh Festival and now the Fringe has become bigger and it's it's the biggest performing arts festival in the world and it's the third biggest ticketed event

That's actually a really good idea. Is there like a counter programming like punk art festival that happens at the same time as CEES that's.

Like freaks, you know, that's what we're doing. We're going to stop better offline fester. It's like bring your ship for the dogs. We've hired to destroy and we will look but we want we're pro lab, so we will pay guys to sit around looking depressed on everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

A guy staring at into the distance with gimme shelter playing.

It's gonna be a guy who works for one of the companies that have a booth at the real sea, Yes, who then sits and looks sad as we watch as he watches his stuff get destroyed.

I saw another robot that was just this. It was on the conveyor belts and it had big arms and it was like home. It was like home patrol, elderly care, laundry folding. And I just walked up like can I see any of this? And they went no.

I was like, okay, but does it do it? It will? I just stared right, but what does it do?

Now? Well it's there. I'm like, yeah, I got that part. And just it has happened a lot. I mean, you were talking about brisket, this fucking AI agent cooking thing, yes, and it's just like you look at it and you're like, AI Agent, Oh it can order food. Well, doesn't sound like it can. No, they haven't figured that part out yet, and what is the AI agent part.

Well, that wasn't clear either because it wasn't working. Oh okay, it it seems like there's just a chat bot that has a there's a camera inside so it can like take pictures of.

Your food and be like, oh, you like to eat this, I've seen that. Yeah, no, there are so many one of them food.

Yes, yeah, you know you into this, yeah, you like.

And it was fun because at first it was pitched just like, oh, this will like prepare the food and cook it for you, and then as you ask questions, it's like, oh no, it's like you have to you still you do everything? You still doing nothing. It was just it was a pellet smoke.

It wasn't that.

Yeah, that's pretty much it, you know. But they're spinning it as because they have other products, and that's when they're like, oh, we have a grill that's also an AI yeah, yeah agent grill, and we have you know, any sort. We have a microwave that we're worked on.

Blue Apron plus an AI, which which we kind of already have.

We have Tavala.

We have like nineteen different Instagram services that the Instagram ats that talk at me a week and probably five times more.

Yeah, because it also has a giant fucking screen on it.

Grilling is like you can just go and buy a ship toss like what like a poke shoulder and just throw it in with some seasoning.

And it's like, you don't need the computer to tell you.

I don't need the computer.

I don't Who are these.

People who are like every day is just confusing to them? I'm just fucking what do I eat? What do I do? Throw the food in there? Oh god, I don't remember the things I like to eat. I don't have tastes.

These companies have not thought about, like even before, they're all trying to solve the food problem, like the meal delivery kit companies, and none of it sticks. People do meal delivery kits for like a couple of months and they stop. Is because eating is a solved problem. There's like there's three kinds of people there's people who buy frozen shit and heat it up or they boil hot dogs. There's people who only eat takeout, and there's people who

Yeah.

And the thing is, I don't judge anyone who does the meal kit stuff. I did it fine, especially when you're trying to lose ways, it's fine, but it's also like like it's steal a lot, like a decent amount of efforts you have to select and it's like you kind of like you heat them.

I did it for a while.

Did you enjoy throwing out five hundred small plastic bags?

Yeah? And also like if you fall behind on them or travel or just have a stack of the fuckers, and that's when you cancel the moment you have a stack and I've still got some of them somehow. And it's just I read the documentation for the Briskit that I don't fucking care the brisk it, the brisk kit. If it's called like the brisk It, I'd kind of laugh, but like it's just like but I read it, and it was like the little fake demo they had on the leaflet that was like, what I want to eat this.

It's like you, I'm spending what half an hour you know, getting this thing ready as through.

It, training it.

Yeah, and then it'll it'll kind of recommend things for me that I still got to.

Go out by design andre you know.

So it's like what's actual, what's actually which seems to be a trend's actual point?

Like an in an earlier block we were talking or an earlier episode, we were talking about, uh, the chatbot that manages I think you were talking about this, the chatbot that manages.

Your home.

The chatbot that's like you don't want to pick up your kids from groceries or from daycare whatever. But it's like you still yeah, yeah, yeah, and it like looks at your Google calendar for you and whatever, except you still have to look at your screen to read what the chatbot is telling you. So you could also just

That's why you have to offload it into those Yeah, and then then it can hallucinate.

Yes, I've been trying to write jokes about AI for a while, but you know, Chloe has a comic when someone has written a joke that's so good that you can't write anything better, and it's like taking over your brain. Very funny comic named Hayden Johnson who wrote a tweet that was like, uh, every every AI ad is a guy saying what should I eat? And the AI says sandwich?

And the guy is like, wow, it really is a sandwich.

I never thought whoa?

And that's actually I think genuinely a Gemini ad. It's like, what am I going to eat? It's like if you tried this ham Sam, It's like, if you act like that, go to a doctor.

Yeah, because Gemini adds where it's like, hey, you know you're in this book club you signed up for some reason and you didn't do the reading. What if you faked it and told all your friends that you did use us? But if you joined a book club where you didn't read, Yeah.

It's just like you know, or like what if you lie to your friends?

So yeah, yeah, right, we can help with that.

It's very it's peculiar as well, because again, grilling, the whole thing is just throw some burgers on there and you there, we are assumed with friends or like you're throwing a big brisket and it takes eighteen hours and you kind of look at it. It's very analog. Like I have two giant smokers and they are mostly like the best one I have is a big stainless steel beast that's basically a temperature measurer, a hopper for pellets and then an auger to send him and sent them

Wouldn't Jane Roger.

But I think the confusing thing to me, I want masculinity to be tied to analog. Miss again, right and right now, I think masculinity is tied to computer and so it is interesting. I think in a lot. I think there's a lot of like, Dad, you like this grill because it has a computer in it.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no no, Dad, like plain grill.

Dad, Like this may.

Changing because that's that's Dad. But you know, there's like the performative male archetype like TikTok thing, and that's all wired headphones, reading, reading, belle hooks and paper form totally.

But I don't think I think that.

That is that's complicated because it's a stereotype created by women about men. I was also gonna say not masculine.

So it's never mind, Adam, with greatest respect, I think that your feed over represents how many performative men are in the world.

So I think the whole performative male thing is is nonsense bullshit as a meme.

I think.

I think it's really destructive and doesn't exist.

Yeah, I think masculine you should be tired to personal responsibility and love for your friends and loved ones. Blest person that is not computer, No, and it's not the computer is no. I think the computer is innocent. The people who the computer must be stopped. And this show really is like I think I saw no less than seventeen different companies that were like, yeah, we generate images, you're a rapper. You're a rapper for a chat GPT. Oh, we generate images and texts, so you use chat GPT

And I will say, we're coming towards the end of this block.

Whenevertheless, I will say Eureka Park felt and even the Expo, the Venetian one felt smaller to me like previous years. It felt a little more robust, and there was a lot more like they would the countries, like the careers like Le France and all that cut center. Yeah, yeah, the I've got center of it was never above ground. You put them in the in the basement where the other countries apparently belonged with like the Social Security Administration

Where's the product?

Oh that, don't worry it, There isn't one. It's just other than the ones which are like, yeah, we have a photonic sensor to put on the top of a specific device. I fucking like all of those the industrial ones where It's like, for a specific use case that they to meet one of eleven people and they meet all of them.

Those are cool, the rest not so much.

Yeah, I mean, the the what I wind up wondering as a pure lay person is is the fact. So sorry, let me let me sort of give you what I'm hearing. Yeah, it sounds like, and I agree with this from my experience on the floor, it sounds like some very high preponderance of the offerings at CES this year are functionally wrappers around an already developed AI tool.

Yes, right, there are some interface with chatchip. Right.

Whether whatever that interface may be an orbit, a pillow, an app, or whatever it is, it is the technology at the core of it is something that somebody else has already made that we are all aware of.

Yes, So in that.

Case, if that preponderance is higher this year, is that because uh, there are like fewer problems to solve elsewhere, fewer like consumer problems to solve elsewhere that we've like actually advanced so far in technology that without without these rappers for these lms, they would be CS would be

It's all of the above.

It's andals are approaching the end of the half and hour, but I'll wrap this on this. What is is that It's that venture capital is pretty much only like fifty percent of venge capital went into AI this like last year. It's god, there's twenty twenty six now. It's also CS usually just is magnetized to whatever trend that was met with us. There's two years ago we had an AI semen thing, not on that this yeah, no, come, no coming.

I've never met intelligent semen.

Apparently there were a few years ago.

Organically or artificially.

Okay, men are back, kill all men, kill men, more woman on podcasts.

Honestly, femail. This is gonna eat this up.

All right, we're gonna rotate. Though we're gonna rotate. Here comes an ad that specifically only for woman. It's pink, and we're back in the room. Now. We've of course got the wonderful Garrison Davis. If it could happen here, Hello, and we're back with Chloe Radcliffe, actress of course in the movie Is This Thing? On? Stand up comedian, comedian and host of the Factually podcast Adam Connover.

Hello, and we were just talking about l M rappers and why.

Everything is LLLLM this year and AI this year more so even than last year, and why there are so many things that are just effectively wrapping around the chat gpt API and what it is is, Yes, yes, magnetizes the trends like it's just it goes wherever the trends are. We've had a metaverse and VR and AR and ind like twenty fifteen is very indieg go heavy crowdfunding and such. But I think it's also the funding thing of where venture capital is going. But also it's just fucking easier

And take that suckers.

No, it really, it really is, though the sucker is being venture capitalists and customers as well, because it's like, yeah, I built a company. No you fucking didn't. You built something on top of someone else's company, and you're claiming it's yours. By the way those API rates are going the way, they're too cheap, they don't make sense. But yeah, it's just kind of sad because usually you go to CS, i'd say forty percent of the stuff will be dead

Especially the robot dog, because that has.

Oh, don't kill my robot dog.

Not how many times we just talk about killing dogs on the show.

Every time that Chloe's on, I actually multiple times I have a whole nother product I want to talk about.

Oh, oh god it is.

It is about Lane perfectly landed.

So I wandered into a uh it was like a consortium of Internet of Things home products or whatever. And the guy recognizes me. He's like, oh, Adam, I like your show.

Great.

I'm like, what do you got in here? He's like, oh, I represented all these different companies. He actually said one of the you know when someone like accidentally said something that sounds really useful here and he's like this thing over here, will detective you left your stove on and turn your stove off automatically. I was like, wow, that that's great. Who did Why didn't we emit that fifty years ago? That seems very obvious as a product. Then he's like, over here, we got the smart dog crate.

We talked about this briefly, but I don't want to know.

I think this is a different smart dog.

This doesn't measure the heights of your dog. Uh, that was the one, you know.

I think it's different because the one that I was looking at.

So so, just to catch you up the short this is one sentence overview. There's a little crate that measures your dog's breathing rate, your heart rate, and the height distance between the top of the crate and the top of the dog.

And I said, why do we need that?

And the guy said, because if it if the number doesn't change for a while, maybe the dog has died.

And I said, but but wouldn't you.

Know that from the other numbers by looking?

Oh god, the idea of the distance from the ceiling to the dog has not changed in three days.

Something is wrong, it's different.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I said.

I told my my boyfriend Stewart last night about about the dog grate that I saw, and he was like, well, you want to avoid the terrifying case of your dog shrinking.

Or worse, getting bigger.

It's like, my dog is not in a perpetual state. It's like my dog varies sometimes. Yeah, so adam one a different one, tweet stream a different one.

Yes. It had, among other things, had an iPad in the dog create so you could show your dog videos, video chat with your dog. It had like a privacy screen that would open and close, like glass that you could remotely open and close, and then.

Your dog try on new outfits.

Your dog wants to pretend it's in a limo.

Yeah, yep, yep, or like if you were, you know, had your dog in some sort of like prison visitation situation. It was like, if you.

Don't want strangers to see your dog's.

Dick, this is the thing I vaguely knew already.

Existed, but.

I want my dog to be modest.

They said, it was, you know, he was like some people put a blanket over the crate, but now you don't have to do that. And again it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, what was the problem with the blanket over the.

Carry and also the blanket of the crate is to make the dog think, is to make the dog go to sleep.

Yeah, it's to say it's nighttime now, not uh Yeah.

They called it privacy screen, and it was cool, like I was aware this already existed, like a pane of glass that if you like run a current through it, it suddenly turns opaque or something. And that was cool to see go even though I knew it already existed.

This?

Much like use when your dog's a puppy.

Maybe yeah, you're trading a dog to stain in the crate and be happy in it. And the whole point is that it can't leave, like you kind of like train it to like the crate, Like, why would you let it I guess if you let it out early out.

The whole point of a dog is that it knows routine, as everybody knows the point of a dog, the.

Points of a dog.

The point of a dog is maximal efficiency is optimize your dog dog. But if you let the dog out, if you open the dog crate early, and the dog has no way of predicting when you're going to open the.

Crate remotely and you will not there and you're not.

There, Like I feel like if you have a dog created while you're gone, because I.

Do know people who are, like, there are tons of people who do.

Yeah, and do you know it's whatever, whatever judgment decide about whether you should have your dog in the crate that much or not. Totally setting that aside, just dealing with the reality of there are people who do. If you drive home and the dog hears the garage door opening, or the dog here's the front door opening or whatever, then the dog gets to be excited because the crate

Played that's azz that's was that the one where they shocked the dog.

I think I know they had one with skins that I'm thinking of where it was where they like play a beep and then shock the rat. And those rats survived like two or three times longer than where they where they just randomly shocked without the beep, because the rats who didn't have the beep were so anxious the entire time, were so stressed because they didn't know when the shock was coming, Whereas when they knew it's it's right after the beep, they could prepare for it for

Like this door could open at any moment. Could a person fit in this thing?

Okay?

Well no, we're talked about the things. You got an iPad on the it was like a weird streamer. I've got a few furry listens. Yeah, I definitely know. No, That's why I'm like the if the yiff maxes, yes, there's gonna be one person new emails saying they love that, and another that threatens to kill me.

It's gonna be great.

It was kind of charming, It wasn't that to your point, cluy I think if you were a dog and you're like in the crate all day and then suddenly the door just like silently swings open, yeah, I'd be like, oh, humanity is gone. They've died, and I've been released from my I'm in like a twenty eight days later situation.

Yeah, like it's the beginning of.

The movie and have to eat my owner.

You just come back with dog fucking kills.

It's too ominous, all right?

Yeah, what have you seen today?

Today?

I've been to once again, more Panels. I went home the Panasonic booth ones. Actually I would I would prefer to go over your favorite part of Cees what you mean, which is showstoppers.

Yes, showstoppers who have made war with me.

Yeah, because I work at a PR firm, They've decided I cannot go very unfair, very nasty. So if you ever go to showstoppers, my my request is you eat a lot of horrible food. I want you to op a deck every toilet in that place, and we turn this into the most icly cantina.

I got it.

I like when that accident comes out, what is that specifically with the cos.

Yeah, it was like it's west, it's West London. It's West West London. Yeah, it goes between my pulshvaxcent in the West London.

And it's all in the consonants like they're tight.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's there. There's something wrong with me. Tell me about the about host Stoppers.

It was the worst Showstoppers I've been to in a few years, which I'm honestly I'm saddened to say, Like I usually kind of look forward to Showstoppers.

And could I request on one to two sentence overview of.

What shost Stoppers is.

Showstoppers is a media event for journalists where a bunch of products, usually from like Eureka Park, usually like the Ces, like innovation type products have boots in a ballroom in the Blagio and there's food and drinks and in journalist we'll walk through and you can talk to you know, people from these companies. It's it's it's like another condensed version of like the Show, all in like one room and it's like every Tuesday night and ces and is.

There uh uh who gets to be there?

Not that?

No, no, no, not who gets to look.

You have to pay?

Who gets to show like exhibitors?

Who gets to stop the show?

But I guess what I'm saying is like, can you just pay enough and be one of those exhibitors? Like it just it's it's not like nobody's picked its, like we think these are actually the best.

Degree of that, and that's something that's outright fraudulent. They would probably say no to, but probably not.

Yeah, because there's there's not much space and so they kind of defer to to people who want like to see Yes, Innovation Awards every year.

So you got there was like a few of those boots. But what was almost made about it? What was not?

What it was?

They changed venues, It was in a much smaller ballroom than the Terrible in the past few years. Yeah, and I would say about forty to percent of the show floor was once again your favorite product, smart glasses. So many smart glasses boots. Interesting, there was like three three like regular smart glasses, all all the back ended via lms like the auto translation glasses.

I tried on.

One was a sound translation where they like have speakers in the arm that they were running that translation through Microsoft's AI. They had another like a backup translation that you could run through chat GPT's I did a.

That's funny because Microsoft is powered by GPT. This is I'm noting with the guys. I'm saying you're wrong. I'm just like, that's just like classic ces brain. It's just like what it runs through chat GPT or chat GPT with the.

Other the other ones which were like the visual visual translations as well as like navigation, like they hook up to Google Maps so they can do do that sort of thing if you're like biking. But the big ones were the ro Kid glasses, the crowd funded AI smart glasses. They worked better than the sound ones. The sound only ones worked but with a pretty significant delay, so long a ten seconds jesus, so you can't have a conversation with them. They were prettier. They were they look like

Yeah, yeah, that's so.

Even even in like a loud showroom, the person who had it on could like whisper something.

Uh.

I could not hear it standing like two feet away, but it was like it was perfectly transcribed and I could like actually like via like reading lips and it was good.

But and is this sorry hold on, this is a translation through language and transcription.

It does both and this is at.

These were basically basically like like yeah, like like a AirPod style cool, But the dictation feature is a subscription model.

You have debate to keep using it, and it's powered by GPT and all and.

It's also powered by GPT, so there was a few things like that. Uh, there was smart like swim goggles. There was smart like ski goggles by goggles.

Long questions just with the previous ones.

Sorry, so you need a subscription, but do you need an internet connection as well? Oh I didn't ask that. That's because it must connect to your phone or something, which is just like because yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, because like ostensibly, if you're.

The dictation needs the phone because you see the dictation like getting updated on your ves so bad, they're gonna it's it's gonna be sync to your mobile device, but.

You'd want that anyway. That one's not so bad. But the translation ones, it's like, if you're in a foreign country, you can't necessarily.

Rely like the situation.

The situations you need translation will probably not be in a major metropolitan area because depending on the country, and if it's a country where is Maltinarian, it doesn't have this translation. The cell service might not be good, You're not might not.

It's just also the idea of walking up to a person who doesn't speak English, who speaks like literally so much zero so zero of English that you can't yeah, you can't converse model through and being like hold on let me put in my thousand dollars machine into my head.

That is going to make me be able to talk to I mean a lot of the glasses.

At least it's for like putting on so you can hear people like around you, which isn't too bad. It's not necessarily even for conversation, but at least at least you can, like you can hear someone speaking.

You catch the leaves drop so that these people who are specifically.

Who have switched to a foreign language, specifically so that you won't understand what they're saying.

This is what my did. No, it was really funny when I was a kid and my parents used to speak in French in front of my brother and I to try and avoid us hearing what we didn't tell them for fucking years.

We could understand then, we could completely understand.

What they're doing is teaching you frendship.

No, I No.

We were just listening to work out why that, Like we're like how long we were going to stay places, or if there was something we were going to do we didn't want to do. And then eventually I think one of us like laughed at something they said. It was like ship, God, damn it years of the scam.

Okay, it's kind of useful if you are someone who only speaks English talking is talking to someone who's speaking another language but can like understand English but maybe maybe can't speak.

It very right, I do.

Actually that's a translation.

That's like the main case.

There's stuff like this has been normalized a little bit too, Like I've got to plenty of hotels where there's someone from mainland China trying to check into the hotel and they're using the translation thing. It's like and then they show the phone, yes, and like that'll get more refined, and I don't know, it seems to me like translation is one of the few things that like I was about to say, this really good for like it is an improvement.

Yes, yeah, totally, and like it is. It is a positive use case. It is a like non harmful at least broadly non harmful use case. I've always imagining the setting though, like when you're in the you know, the rural Uzbek mountains and you're trying to communicate with it, Like I'm trying to watch the setting where you have no WiFi, but you're like trying to use these earbuds which just feels like a you know, a set piece in a movie.

So like, although some of these things kind of like works to some degree, the audio one is a little bit slower. Like these are all stuff I've tried on at c yes before. Like I was gonna say, I feel like we had this conversation last year. We've had the exact exact conversation before. Like, these are not new and this was this was it like forty to fifty percent of the show floor at Showstoppers was just these

Like that's like a new ish. I guess I.

Feel like, why do you want a headset view?

You know, maybe maybe you need to play a app with gesture controls because.

You saw the Terminator forty years ago and you're like, it would be cool to see text on my eyes.

Look as pretty as it is to scuba dive. You could also be watching Instagram reels at the same time.

Yeah, like brain row as you're looking at beautiful tropical fish. Jesus Christ.

You're like, hey, do you like to swim laps because it's the one place that you cannot bring your phone.

Yeah, we got the solution for you.

The whole thing about the phone is that you can look away from it. Yeah. Like, to me, the main reason VR didn't catch up is because like when I would play a VR game, I would, you know, sometimes I would enjoy them, but after like twenty minutes, I'd be like, what if my house is on fire? What if somebody needs me? And then I take the thing off, and then it's such a big phase change you don't

This is where all that you can leave.

We've done it. I don't think even happening.

Now you can do it, John, Like I was just in Japan and you can do translation on your phone. You can type, You could type the thing and you could show it to someone. They can type it back, and that's going to be faster and more efficient.

I went to Japan in twenty seventeen and I literally just used Google Translate. Yeah, and I feel like it'd be way more offensive to this man who did not speak a lick of it. I went to rock and it was amazing and like it was way less offensive to be like, oh, I don't understand you. I'm going to use this and being very honest to be like one second beep beep, now speak.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

You know inm Basil, who cannot converse with versus being like yeah, we're both from different countries, Like yeah, how magical. Yeah, there is a barrier, and technology has solved this barrier without removing the honesty of conversation versus I have paid someone five hundred dollars and twenty five bucks a month so that you and I can pretend we understand each other because we don't.

And I do, I really do think that, like at the at the broadest levels, I do think that the translation use case makes them makes more sense than almost any other to me. And you know why it makes that sense because it's written in English. But Adam, what you were saying earlier, I couldn't miss it anyway. But the burden of being a comedian they have to take a little hanging free. But Adam, what you were saying earlier of just a second ago, about like we've already like the winners are here.

The winners are the iPhone and android phones.

Yeah, sort of goes back to what I was asking in the earlier block about, which about why are the rappers so prevalent? And is it because ed I'm hearing you that that a huge part of it is that we're following the trend. But also like, is it that there is some degree of the biggest consumer tech gaps have been closed right now or like the biggest consumer gaps that we can imagine right now. I'm sure in ten years there will be they will be will be in a totally.

I mean, the iPhone was like ninety percent of all technological advancement. That's yeah, that was possible when it was invented.

That's what I mean.

Like it sort of picked. It was all the low hanging fruit all at once. It's been refined over twenty years.

And they planned for it. Like there was a famous Golmon Sachs analysts called Jim Cavelli who said, like the iPhone, they knew it was going to happen, like at decade beforehand. They just needed Bluetooth to be smaller, they needed GPS to be smaller on mode ends and such.

And like Apple has made the same thing in a dozen other form factors and they're all less popular than the iPhone. They're just like less, the iPad less, the Apple Watch less. The iPhone is like the main thing.

Well obviously the Vision Pro, which is the most successful for me.

Yeah, that's the popular product everyone loved. I think. I think there's another level of it as well, which is it's follow a culture, because it's when a big company goes, we're going to try this. And I think the meta glasses because a lot of credulous journalists when Wow, I could use this to video myself cooking. I could use this were walking around. I did a content video as

No one, they will, and I don't.

Yeah, but vcs will. But have we seen any proof that consumers? No, no, no, no, no, but yeah vs will. But it's like, oh, yeah, we can clone the very popular meta ray bands you mean the horrendously unpopular one sorry, the unprofitable but also not super profitable like metas.

I've never seen them in the real world using them.

I've literally seen one person using them. Yeah, Don Lemon, don Lemon.

You could not have said a funny.

That man was Don Lemon. You could tell me a story about anybody doing anything and that they say it was Don Lemon.

That very that's very good.

Yeah, that's the thing.

That he's shorter than what you would think. He's like maybe five seven of most.

That's not good. Yeah, that's a shorter man than I expected, kind of.

I went to the Razor Booth, which I know we talked about yesterday, but I did have a good time there and I actually kind of left going like they're doing it in an honest way because you know, I walk in and most of the stuff. Look, they're a second tier hardware company that makes accessories for gaming, right, and they make good ones. I had a Razor mouse. They had some keyboards. They went click click clicking. It

And you see.

The wife tube.

I did. I did see the wife tube, but just to finish first. Then they're like, look, you can connect to Claude or Opus or any of them. And I'm like, okay, great, So Razor has gone. I know who gives a fun but Razor has gone. We're a hardware company. We make hardware.

Now.

The little tube I thought was funny.

And this is a holographic tube with the WIFU in it.

It's a little holograph. Have you seen this clothes? You should probably go check the wife. You would enjoy it. I would like to see you interact with it. It's a little so like a little on your desk, a little tube and inside the tubes a little anime girl and you can talk to it and it's just like talking to Chad GPT. But you can say like hey, hey, get out my gun in Battlefield four and then she goes, okay, I added a scope to it, but.

Did that work? This is what the wife tube looks like.

By the way, Yeah, it's but it's a little avatar tube. It can see you. And the guy goes, hey, what do you think of Adam's outfit? Because, by the way, everybody in the Razor booth that was the most recognized. I was all weekend because they're all Internet nerds loaded, so you want you. They kept come going up and saying hi, Adam. I was like, are you fucking stop it?

It pos ten seconds every time he some.

But so the guy goes, he reveals that he knew who I was because he goes, what do you think of Adam's outfit? And it sort of goes like wow, cees badge on fleek looking super professional and like a boss, and Jesus Christ, you know, yep, I guess there's some gamers who might need compliments, like a little compliment tube, but it was dumb but also compliment a little toy. I felt like they weren't even taking it that they're kind of shrugging, going like, yeah, you know.

This is the bullshit we gotta do this year.

Yeah, it's were a razor. Hey you want a mouse or you want a little anime girl too? You want something you scholowed? You want whatever the fuck this pervirtue? Yeah at least yeah, but they make led fucking you know desktop towers.

Nobody doesn't love it, love it?

Yeah, but like I don't know, I just like, if you buy the wife You Tube, they should fucking put you on the list.

I'm sorry if you're.

Like I desire a tube or right where to quote Robert from Yesterday, where like Krieger's Hentai wife from Archer resides, you should you should not be allowed to like you should have to introduce yourself to your neighbors. Like it's just it's just a very worrying product. And also who the fuck for?

Like who is because.

It's not good enough to give you actual if I like ces batge on fleek, wow, fuck off.

Just well, that's the thing is that, Like that's one of the things is sure, are there a lot of gamers who could use some compliments without a doubt, absolutely, but like it sort of feels insulting to their intelligence.

It feels insulting.

I think the way AI talks, the kind of sycophantic chat, all this, yeah, feels feels like insulting to anybody's intelligence. And it's it's sort of shocking to me that we just go, yeah, that's how it should talk and that's fine and we accept that and aren't like that's humiliating and stupid.

But if fits into me in the gamer context actually, because something that so many games do that I find annoying, But clearly people must like is like, thank you so much. You saved the whole village. You're the strongest hero we've ever met. Like games, you will compliment you for doing basic things. I don't even think games do that.

I mean, you saved the whole village.

At them, that's more than you see that in like a textbox and it goes away and you've forgotten to happen, and I'm hammering X. I'm like, I'm just like full autists, like I need to get in this fucking bit.

Fuck you did. I don't care about the story.

And it's just most gamers I talk to would be very annoyed to have any interruption and just having this demented Hentai thing in the corner.

Flake and not to need to wash.

Do you say you need to watch utility it's a wash tube then just reminds gamers to shower. Actually, this is a use case for AI. Then I can get Oh no, we're gonna get some memos saying I'm a gamer and eye wash. But by the way, if you email me that, I'm asking how often.

It is funny that, like you know, maybe it's the computer from Star Trek, right, whether you go computer do this or that? And it would answer. The computer didn't go, what a great idea, Captain. That's sure decisive and a great shows leadership on your part.

I think that actually is it though it's trying.

To think of how much better Captain would have felt about himself if the computer had said that.

Oh, Captain Percartt had self respect.

But here's the thing they're doing. They're doing that because you can't just be like, do something. You can't be like, do this because it can't do anything true. It's like you can't be like, oh you the battlefield example, It actually can't do that because it would require it to interact with the game, which it definitely can't do. So it's like, yeah, they add all the sycophancy because you can't actually be like, can you do this for me?

It said that it did it. The guy said, kid out my gun, and it said a bunch of stuff about the gun. I didn't know the game enough well enough to tell if it did, but I asked the dude I was like, do you think that gamers want this like a game assistant, because to me, a video game is like the paragon thing that you would want

That is a market just good at a game.

Yeah, not like a regurgitation of how money game FAQ pages. I'm not even I'm not even being selcastic like people. I've had many people helped me with games, but people, and the whole point is they watch you and go that was wrong, that was wrong. No, do this like you're doing this. I see you regularly making this action. I don't think you could recognize that through a camera.

I guess it could maybe used for like for like walk through guides. If you're like stuck at a part you don't know how to, you can ask and it'll like regurgitate some ign article about how to get past the fourth dungeon.

Already has that built in?

Yeah really yeah they really brought it in as well.

Yeah they have a future. The developers have to like build it in. But like Astrobot has this all done, because that's like a super fish party game. It like you hit the PlayStation button and it has like game hints. So literally, you know, if you're on a level and you're like, where's the fucking third puzzle piece, and it'll like show you a little video or give you a hint. But that's like basically they just put the game fact in the game.

The game.

It's I used to.

Write video game guides.

And the problem is is the the things that people get stuck on can be so dip because it's why they have like yellow things on ladders that you have to climb now, because something that seems really obvious to one million out of one sorry, one point nine million out of two million people is really just not obvious like a thousand people, and all of those people post online and they are just like what the fuck do I do here? And then you get the people who are mad that it's too obvious.

But it's like.

It's yet another thing where it's like a solution in search of a problem, and it's just kind of sad and I hate to do this really abrupt thing, but we're at thirty minutes and the next thing will solve either all of your problems will cause you more your choice, but you really have to give them your money whatever it is, and if it's a podcast, you have to listen and trust them wholeheartedly. We return to our scene. We've rotated once more, bringing back Matt Binder of Mashable.

Hey, nice to be here again.

And of course stand up comedian and star of Is This Thing On? Chloe Ratcline.

Who you have her?

Where is she? Bring her out there? She is? I must see her.

Someone's gonna someone who's gonna see Is This Thing On? As result, they've heard the name so many.

Don't you know? What I want people to do?

Who cares about it?

And it's not No. The movie's amazing and I'm very happy to be in it. What I want you to do? Can I do a little plug?

Please? Please?

I want you to come to my stand up shows in either Cincinnati this weekend January tenth and eleventh or DC next week in January seventeen, the eighteenth, or my solo show called Cheat in Philadelphia January twenty twenty.

First and I saw Cheat, want I saw cheese fucking brilliant. Thank you.

I mean to do that too, Pula, she plugged. I gotta plug.

Uh. Now we know it's only my turn.

This weekend, I'm gonna be a comedy on State in Madison, Wisconsin, one of the best clubs in the country. And then I'm going to be next weekend in Fort Wayne, Indiana, which I will not say, at the Summit Comedy Club in Fort Wayne, Indiana, which I will not say, is one of the best clubs in the country. But if you live at Fort Wayne, Indiana, it's probably the only club you have access to. And I will be there, So go see me there and then and then Houston later and I will.

Be at the Chuckle Hunt Las Vegas doing my doing my new set bom actually stolen Valor and it's me doing the DreamWorks eyebrow for fifteen minutes. Anyway, we're back talking about CS Matt Benderer's return. What have you seen recently?

I I don't even know anymore. Yeah, it's just just everything all at once, multiple places. I will say that this is very insaary in terms of being here, but it's fine. They they Vegas has very specific Uber pickup points. Yes, and it seems like when CS comes to town they just decide to fuck with everyone and move them place. Yes, they get telling the uber drivers yep. So you know, you try to get somewhere and you just can't because the Uber driver can't fucking get to you.

West you have to go to the West Hall and go to the Diamond Lot, or you have to go to the Renaissance Hotel. That's the only way to get out of the LVCC. You can also take the tram if you want to be shoulder to shoulder with people who will want to die. Today, I walked from the LVCC.

Great, how long did it take.

You, uh LVCC to hear?

It took me half an hour maybe a little bit less Samu powerwalk. Yeah, my priority is speed. What that's like an English thing that I'd see in Eureka Bark when your priority is speed and it's just a SaaS product. Yeah, but Matt, have you not seen the game? No? No?

Have you beheld?

All right? So I did. I don't even remember the name of it, but I did. I remember the last time I was on this show, I was larding the fact that crypto and blockchain is dead at cees.

Oh, do you find something?

I unfortunately found something. I don't remember what it did. It was a mining company. I don't know what their product.

Did.

I mean, but one thing I saw one thing, so's we don't got to shut out here. It's es when it comes to crypto, but it seems like it is still dead other than that one thing.

Right, Yeah, it's the way. I will also say when Crypto was here, and I do remember it, it was so half hearted because first of all, it's the problem all the AI shit runs into, which is it's Internet connected. But it's also where AI really doesn't work. Crypto really really doesn't work. It's right, Yeah, it's a blockchain game. Great, So what you do is you get the thing. It takes ten to fifteen minutes based on the ethereum blockchain.

That's not good, that's not good showcase material for a count.

It was.

And last year I did see a panel that was a guy talking about quantum web three and I thought it would be funny. No, it was just a guy. It sounded like someone with a concussion, like web three, web three, web three, quantum quantum fast but quantumle break blockchain, and everyone going, hm.

You you bringing up web three. It did make me remember that I did. I didn't go into it, but I did pass by. Apparently Jason Calacananas whatever his name is, from all In they were doing a live just him, were doing a live all In podcast at no interesting going in, but I mean they sent they sent like the the what the least successful.

We've sent our clammiest man, our dampest man is here to bring you the dampest coverage of the ces.

Because the other guy, Chopped whatever Chop whatever his name is, he's he's the most wealthy one, I think, right, and then and there's just David said and David Sackson too busy, too busy with his insidery trading stuff with the Trump administration. Yeah, so, I mean, I guess Jason kalakan Asen whenever how you ever said his last name? Yeah, I mean where was his claim to fame again?

He sold Mahalow.

Yeah, the SEO Yeah, the SEO Show, and then weblows engineer, but weblogs which created and gadget.

It's like a weird thing where like he had a hand and he was also right right right right basically, what the fuck is he doing here?

He's on the All In podcast. He's one of the four hosts, right, I mean.

What Yeah, But I mean, I guess I can't really judge someone of being like I'm going to do a random podcast at CES.

It's not random. I planned it all right, right no, but.

I mean it wasn't though, Like this is ed Zitron show, and ed Zitron is here. Yes, they all In is four guys, and they sent just the one guy. They don't really even like that is really.

Yeah, they did a regular episode doing one right now, It's like, yeah, Jason and each to cover Cees. Fine fucking Christ, Okay, let's do the Let's do the show. Jason's gone, God, that would be really I think is there four of them?

There's four of them. I never remember the fourth one. But because he stays out of the political world, I think for the most part.

They had Trump on and he was just like, we're gonna be the biggest immigrants. Are gonna have the biggest immogrants in the world. They're gonna be the largest, and the like, that's so great. You should do one h one bees. I don't like Barners, Like, yeah, we don't like them either, we need h one bees. Well you don't like them, but they were the biggest.

He was looking at Chamith. I'm sure when he said I don't like Varners. I'm sure.

Yeah, I'm sure sure that that was fine. Oh God, I can't believe, Like this is stay at this is meant to be Actually, this is a good segue. This

It's like a very specific thing.

And then just like a count litter, like a robotic catlt thing that was not available.

Right, I mean, yeah, I was taking a video of just like I was at I was in something that had like a whole lot of signs up like it was a science fair, and and I was I videoed just like the titles because they were baffling to me. Fleet management with vision AI nice EDGI meets human touch what and then AI Native compute for the IoT.

These are not consumer products, these are money lending operations.

Yeah, that's just connecting.

That's just connecting various phrases together to see how many venture capitalists actually read the things they invest in.

That's classic CES. Though a few years ago it was every company was a web three metaverse interactive artificial intelligence blocked on the blockchain.

My favorite one was one that was just want to buy that? Yeah, No, My favorite one was one that just said, let's say it was called sorb and it solve via sorb. Let's just bring this up. Yeah. I saw, for a second, I thought he's sorb sort solve via sorb solve your accent is making this specific and this is really difficult. I just read s sor V solved via sorb and I will admit I didn't want to know anything more because mostly to handle it like I got I got it.

My I'm constantly like what do I do? And I sor right, that's I'm sorbin.

A side note on the accent, this is a completely unrelated I'm also dating a British man and I'm dating a man who is also British, and uh, he tried to make a joke of what's your source on that? But he pronounced it, but he was The joke was what's your sauce on that? But in a British accent, source and sauce are exactly the same word, like there is no distinguishing. And I made him say what's your

This is like there's the show called p a w N Stars. Now here's my problem. If I started saying, yeah, I was watching porn stars.

This this, this leads to more questions than answer for all that the Brits are are king of wordplay in America. We've come up with a lot of wordplay that absolutely paralyzes you.

Kind and I'm like, yeah, I'm watching porn Stars. There's this big guy called Chumley and then there's Rick and they're like all right, it's like yeah, one, he's constantly conning people, and like, whoa, this is some weird porno.

I'm like, no, no is.

I literally was thinking of pwn Stars like one hundred and twenty seconds ago, because when you were talking about them sending the one guy from all in, I was like, that's like if it was the cast of pawn Stars and they only said Chumley. I was like, maybe that's a joke I should say, And then I let it pass because I'm like, yeah, ponn Stars kind of an old reference.

And then here you are, yeah right two minutes later.

Have you ever told anyone added who your favorite character is? And then you have to let them know it's the old Man? Yes, yeah, my brain, it's my favorite porn star.

Yeah, I like the old man that ows like this in my porn start. Yeah, it's but every episode of that show is great because it's just Charlmley being like, yo, I bought a Corra, a Toyota Corolla for fifteen thousand dollars, and then Rick's like, ah, that's terrible, but I scammed an old lady out of a fifty million dollar coin by giving her three hundred bucks. It's just an evil show and I love it. Yeah, but they charge you

But yeah, it's I would love them to come on the show.

This is this is back to my pitch about a CEES fringe festival.

Yes, we could have ship like yeah, the.

Pond stars guys have have a booth.

Some trying to buy his thoughts up?

Is it?

Genuinely? I mean a CS fringe festivaloud be kind of like like XO XO or another like creative tech festival. You could do something like that nearby and have like cool people with like their itch dot io projects. Yeah yeah, yeah, like they're weird, hacky things, you know that would be fun.

And just like you get the Grandma orb and you just fucking blitter ate. You just have a fifty cow rifle that you unload into a computer.

Okay, this is actually.

Like a rage room for you can go to CES and then there's a rage room with all of the products at CES.

Yeah.

You then get to.

Walking around the shopping like, do you mind if I shoot this?

Like?

What what?

I just want to I want to state for the record, if any listener decides to start a CEES fringe, you have to you have to credit me as a co creator.

Oh okay, okay, but they don't have to pay you.

I would maybe, Okay, that would get too expensive.

It's your ip.

It's developed here on the show.

Developed on bet rough Line and thus owned by iHeart Radio this fun. Yes, No, the ideas on the show are owned by I think me. I haven't really checked anyway. No, it's it's such a peculiar show and I don't want to repeat myself and just it's useless, but it is. There are less cameras, dildos and batteries companies, which is disappointing, And there are less practical, like I've been looking for anchor a n K E R. Right, they're like my favorite, Like I got big fucking ankor battery.

Make a lot of mobile chargers and stuff.

Mobile chargers and stuff like I like them. Can't find no like. And it's funny the description of the useful products so far stuff that exists still like a battery for girls, like.

That's that's new that doesn't exist?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because a woman, if you try and picked up this battery.

It's too heavy, you'd be like, whoa.

I go, arms, mister, can you live this really? Thank you? I don't like this one because it's black, but if it had flowers on it, then I'd love it. Then I go, that's for me.

The little mirror on it you can check your makeup so you could look at.

Yourself, because women do that.

I love mirror.

You could get so far at this show.

Yeah, but as a man, I prefer to have a hologram.

Wife who I will say, okay, not to be all a woman about it. The wife tube, I was you gonna have?

You could put a man in the tube.

And does anyone which one?

The razor one?

Yeah, Volksori was saying there's a man with tattoos you can.

Put an Yeah.

So I don't remember if we even talked about this when I was on last time.

We should keep talking.

About the Okay, so the Razor one is the Project Koto or something like that.

No, that's the headphones, Project Ava is the is the wife in the tube?

Oh?

No, you're right, you're right.

I was just really project You are correct.

Yes, I'm glad you're on this, thank you, because I'm not. But there are weirder ones because because the the Razor one, actually do they showed it to you, right, so they were like actual I wouldn't use it, but they were there were actual use case applications like and you can put a.

Guy in a yeah, and like you're.

Playing you're playing a video game and you're like, oh, is this the best uh you know configuration for my character? And no one does. But that at least is like an idea they got.

There.

There's one that I saw from a company called They've Got an Idea. I mean that's that's yes, they got an idea. They got an idea.

I guess alternative tubes.

Yes, So so this company Lempro has this is this tube called amy, and it's not as good as a hologram, but it's still You put a woman in a box, which is weird. A tiny woman in a box is a big thing now, apparently because a lot of companies want to do this.

It's very weird video. But the whole, the whole.

Purpose of the a me from lempro seems to be not AI assistant or any ideas like that. It's simply you're a lonely guy and you want to talk to this woman, and you.

Don't have a woman trapping a woman.

You don't want her to be full sized, right, and you don't want her to be able to go anywhere.

Because they were they were they were talking about it as an AI companion, and my colleague at Mashable was doing a video on it, holding the device talking about it, said you know, if you need a friend, I guess, And while he's saying friend, the little woman in the box starts literally like gyrating her body as if she's like doing a strip tease. And I had to be like, buddy, I don't think she's meant to be your friend.

I mean, have you ever wanted the experience of thinking a strip a fell in love? With you every day, right, And.

It's it's because listen, I I don't want to put a stigma on sex text. Yes they did that years ago.

We already talked about jack and right.

But but like, this doesn't feel like sex tech. This feels like gooner. I don't know, it doesn't feel like something that like is normal even for like what people should be experiencing sexual.

In order to wanna have it socially, you need to be socially stunted in a way that other people perceive as on you. Like I remember what I was a nerd and I grew up around other nerds and then occasionally I remember, now he's.

A cool, Yeah, now he's cool.

I remember me like sixteen, and one of my friends would say something about about women where I'm like, oh, you really don't see them as people and not in like even a You feel so pathetic internally, you have so little ability to communicate that you sort of see it as you see another person as as being a stimulus producing machine for your purpose. And there are people like that, and you you to buy one of these products. You have to. That's how you have to see other people.

Yeah, and I just want to I want to sort of plant a flag very firmly. And we don't even have to analyze this, but just sort of like for posterity's sake, the sort of the broadest and most most foundational symbology of a technology where it says, here's a little woman that lives in a box on your desk is just sort of every sentence, every word in that scene explaining worse and worse and worse for gender dynamics. It really does symbolize somebody who doesn't see women as.

Equals, right.

I mean one of the one of the recommended demo like uh commands you were they they told you to try, was to go up to the box and say dance for me. I mean that that alone is very weird, like pretty damning. And for people who use this tea of the Hut?

Do you want do you want to be like jab of the Hut?

I had a long dude, show me, Oh that's good.

No, do like I like it?

Oh my god? But also I hate to ask, but how what was the woman white and thin?

By any chance?

There were there were a few women.

Many women to trap, but you could you could pretty much guess.

Yes, there was like a white like a blonde white school girl, and then a a like, uh, like a Japanese woman dressed in like traditional Japanese garb. But you know the type of it's really bad.

Yeah, it's really really.

Making it for me. Actually making it anime makes it slightly more palable because.

There but it's not anime.

Oh, it's not anime.

It's it's just a white school girl.

It's just people.

They're not real, they're not like human models. They are sort of like cartoony, but it is like anime style.

But I was gonna say there' stuff like gen Should Impact where people like collect their favorite characters they find them sexy. Both women and men do this, and it's like it's a little it's sort of like fun fantasy land.

Right, Like the Raison one. You said, like the model of the woman in there was like an anime character. It was like a known I don't know who she was, but it was a known person. And while she might have been dressed like provocatively, it was the character. But also there's no actions that add to that that that that that at all her characters. I agree, but I'm just trying to differentiate the two products. This one, this

And not wait, are you saying the Razor one is a real character?

Is a character that in the worst Yeah? And then these are not.

These are just the AI companion creations.

And you think about it and you're like, you know, these people you have when you're designing a companion, you have a literal infinite number of human characters who you could you know, like, why not pick a sixty five year old lady bus driver in the Bronx?

Why not?

Honestly, why not?

But this is what I'm saying.

But the reason that you are laughing at this, and look, I'm saying that it's not sexual, But.

The reason that I'm laughing want me Streep in a box.

I'm going to be honest.

I want to fuck Meryl Streep. No, okay, what if I just want to talk shop with Meryl Streep about her film career and a little box.

But I'm going to be honest.

Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been with like random old people at airports, Like a few years ago, I was out of random. I forget where. I was like maybe sort Lake City or regardless. I just talked to this guy next to me and he was a former NFL player from like the sixties or set like it was before.

It was like a high paying job just.

Chat ship for half an hour. Have we kind of talked about this and I was like, yeah, I'm going through some shit right now. I'm like, we had an honest conversation that was probably like icon imagine that.

Was more socially hewing and.

As far as like, yeah, to your point, executly sorry, it means tokoby, and it's like the actual woman, No, they're going to get me for this. But the loneliness thing, the isolation isn't solved by sex, and like immediately placing women in this situation where they are the solution to men's problems is put to its male loneliness. Bullshit. It's claiming that women are somehow the solution to men not seeking introspection and companionship.

And what's funny is that it's not even woman is the solution, because there's a there's a sixty five year old bronx bus who would not count as the solution. What it is is there is a there is a specific checklist of a woman's weight, facial beauty, and social subservience that are supposed to that are supposed to fit into into this very narrow range of measurements, and that woman then owes service to man who is lonely. Yep, and I want to be I want to be like

There's chess playing robots that will solve that problem.

You don't know what to talk to me about, right that, Like, I understand that there are people who live an incredibly isolated life that I would maybe look at it and go, there are ways to solve this. There are analogue, human to human ways to solve this and to take baby steps forward.

Sure, of course, I mean I think that that's the solution, and.

I'll be all but like I can imagine somebody who goes that kind of human facing solution is impossible for me. I cannot imagine leaving my apartment. I cannot imagine going to a chestnight, I cannot imagine whatever insert Sure, fine, okay, So I'm trying to like be as fair as possible.

Have as much as much empathy as possible.

And and this person, first of all, the idea that this person doesn't have inherent Sorry I'm really on my soop box now, this is but the idea that that person doesn't already it like, hasn't already been inherently soaked in sexist assumptions and standards and and a view inherently of women as unequal, because that is we all I view women as an unequal because that is the water that we swim in, that is how we live, that

But again I'm.

Being as fair as possible say that those assumptions are not actually surface level, they're inherent. They they operate in how we make subconscious judgments. But this person is not, you know, sort of like outright a sexist. They buy wife in a tube and suddenly there, if we're assuming that they're pretty isolated, suddenly they're a huge bulk of their interaction with what feels like a human is Japanese lady in a kimono, well, who probably has big hits under that kimono.

Good for you know, like a good.

Is that it's like that Suddenly it becomes your only interaction with with the concept of a woman, or or the vast majority of your interaction with the concept of a woman like that inherently is going to poison how you interact with your interactions with gender.

And I just like that.

That to me, that is my fairest take where where where I'm not saying it's evil at the top. I'm sorry, it's like evil at the out from the outset. I think the product is evil from the outset, but the person doesn't necessarily have to be like fucked up from the outset.

But I just think this product is going to heat to I want to write, I want to add one thing to that, which is it also inherently connects loneliness with sex and physical validation, because it's like, why isn't a guy like why do you have to have a woman you are attracted to to solve your loneliness? Why is your companion by default the opposite sex and I assume validating how you look and telling you you're a

As well, because it's service.

That's that's because all these all these all these products aren't solved if your issue is solving your your social problem, none of these no tech product is going to Yes, but the whole point we're or like exposing like exposure to the outside world, right, Like you, if you have a problem socializing with people, then the way you fix that is by forcing yourself to socialize with people like Tech can't by definition fixed that because Tech is not a person.

And I mean I used to be a very awkward but like even like you're not chloyed, but he's cool now, but I'm cool and no I am not. But it's like, and it took having to have some very harsh conversations with myself and my therapist and just accepting that, like, yeah, I was awkward, I was not thoughtful about my conversation style, and I was just hated myself and didn't think I was human. Yeah, I'm being to fucking therapy now. It's great, but it's solving that would not be someone validating my

I can and again like being as fair as possible, giving giving as much credit to the other perspectives as possible. I can imagine somebody saying when you're saying, like, I don't want the solution to be loneliness, to be inherently tied to romance. I agree at a philosophical level, but I can imagine that from a pragmatic view, a huge amount of very lonely people are like, yeah, I would love to be in love.

There's a lot.

Isn't solve it. It doesn't solve If you hate yourself and you meet someone and you have sex with them, and you're with them and you still fucking hate yourself, you are going to become dependent on that one and you are going to be a fucking You're going to be a tumor on them.

It's just I hate It's that sucks, Chloe.

My autism is such I genuinely don't think about your both ever. And you know, I'm like the one person Wait my favorite Oh no, it's sucking rocks.

It's the store anyway.

No, no, Claire, Chloe. She's got a big birthmark for those who are just hearing her via audio. Look, it is, first of all, the loneliness. The loneliness epidemic is real. It does kill people. It's like the discourse about it whatever, but like it is a real problem. It's also like evidence of such a deep distortion in our society that we have it because the thing that we have the most of in the world is other people.

Yes, we go too many.

We are literally the most second only to other chickens.

And the whole idea of replacing people with technology at all is insane because we've got eight billion of us up from six billion when I was in like high school. And guess what, they're cheap, Like you want one in America, you can get one for seven bucks an hour and they'll do whatever the fuck you want, you know, Like that's and by the way, even when it comes to like companionship, right, there's a role for people to do

Yeah. There is a difference, though, I think between like the the loneliness epidemic and like the socialization problem. Like there were guys who have plenty of friends just have trouble with women, so they go to sex workers, and that's that's fine, and hopefully they don't you know, they are normal people other than that. But you know, but the socialization thing, these people who aren't even thinking about, you know, interacting with another woman even for pay like this.

Opinion, I just I don't think it doesn't involve any introspection, right, it's just about I got a thing that kind of solves the problem so that I don't have to think about solving the problem.

Right, Like many people online like that's a fairly new thing. And you know what, it solved a lot you Actually it's technology. You use technology to actually enhance your real life, your your real work.

Every single person in this room who has been on this show, including Phil, who I've known for fourteen years, I know through the Internet, right, every single fucking one. I'm like the drill crying tweet. It's like my beautiful wife crying, my job, crying, my watch, crying. Now get the fuck out of my office. But that with the Internet, and it's like, it is difficult. I'm not pretending like

It's being like you want.

A husband tube, right, you want that? Do you want the man tube?

There is none, right, there's nothing that no one putting in a guy in a box.

That's no one saying that because women have put in a position where them it's work them meant to fucking work out. Women have to fucking work out women And tell it's your fucking fool lonely? Why are you?

Why are you too emotional?

Why this?

Why are you that?

Fucking just it pisses me off because it's like these whindy fucking men who are like, oh, yeah, I'm fucking loneli and also I'm gonna become racist and it's just fuck hot. I'm sorry. I have some very spicy feelings about this because I went through the actual work and it was very difficult and annoying.

I agree. I fully agree with you. I think, you know, I don't think they consider the fact that women are are can be lonely, like it's not because in a lonely guy's world they think, and you see this online all the time because you could see how angry they get when oh, a woman decides to like start an only fans and they are successful and they make money doing that. They're like, oh, it's so easy for women. They just go out there and they could talk to anybody,

Stopping Oh I'm going to say something really out there.

Every guy who says that get on only fans start selling pictures of your car. I'm serious, I'm actually fucking serious.

Who they would never there because gay is bad? Because why is gay bad? Because it is close to women.

It's feminine. You can possibly look at a man's penis might turn gay.

Yeah, I mean, it's it's just comes down to the like such foundational views. It's the it's the it's the most foundational framing of women in society, which is women are uh there to be consumed and men are there to consume. Yeah, And it's so deeply fucked up, and it holds, it kills, It kills women and arguably it kills men.

Yeah, thank you Adam for staking the men.

Well, you know, I think that the point you make is you guys can you can go and talk to anybody and the time is true to me, It's it's similar to a lot of other social problems like you know, poor nutrition, people being in poor shape, not exercising right. Yes, anyone can eat better and jog or whatever. And also some people grow up in an environment where everything that they're ever told, every product they ever purchased, their entire environment is pushing them away from doing that thing, and

But also is is your dad lonely? Like there's some people who's.

Prefer actually just my father, my family.

Like for it to be a socialization problem, you have to be a lonely guy who's upset you're alone, you feeling.

Like you're alone and not trying to change that, right.

Right, right, because because if there are people who are completely content being isolated, and they don't view themselves as that, but like you know, they prefer to stay in then go out and hang out or party like they like their time to themselves, and that's completely fine. But there's people who are inside and are angry they're inside and alone, and that's the difference.

I think.

So yeah, so I hate to do this.

We're going to rotate again coming up and ad for men and women.

Whoa like.

They got them for both birds and the fellers.

Now, wow, we're in the fourth quarter and I haven't had any war. That's actually true. I have not drunk a drop of war. I think I've had eleven diet code. Do you have a bottle of water?

Next?

Yeah, it's mostly I just like to sit with it. Okay, we're back's better offline and we'd talk about my lonely this epidemic.

I guess we're back. And of course with a meeting an actress Chloe Radcliffe.

We will let you do your plagues plags. Do your plags. Yeah, you plagues plagues at the end, and you, of course Adam Connor a stand up comedian, Hello, and of course the host of the Factory broadcast. And we're actually joined by Ben, my good mate Ben Rudolph is there, CEO of Cartographic.

And you did fifteen years at Microsoft.

I sure did.

You did the poff of Windows Vista.

You were saying, enterprise pr for Windows Vista the worst job in the company.

But it's honestly though, that's the most poff thing.

You like.

You all always have one. Yeah, you have one thing. I made it though you made it and you're still smiling. I'm here, but that's like, it's Jermaine's what we're talking about, like positive male role models, positive male discussions. Because I brought you, because you're a good mate and we've done a lot, like we're friends online and you've talked to me about fitness and being like you've genuinely changed my life, like helping me build a workout routine.

This so like you. My relationship with you.

Solved more male loneliness than any like romantic relationship have ever.

Are you Are you a fitness coach?

Are you just for no?

Not really no at all.

He's just and just to give you a Nightea. Ben is fucking like jacked. It's awesome.

I'm trying every day and to get a little bit more, a little bit more.

Yea, yeah, no I'm not.

I'm not a fitness coach at all. I uh, I love lifting weights. I try and keep myself in shape. I've got nine kids, so yeah, so I had a lot of people who are dependent on me lift up. It's a lot of exactly and not a functional fitness Oh but seriously, like it's great for my health. It's great for my mental health.

Yeah, it's great for my.

Family, you know, and like you d like, it solves as many mental challenges for me as it does physical challenges, So like it's not a career for me. It's just something I really enjoy doing. And it's so deeply ingrained into my day to day routine that I really can't imagine living without it.

Yeah, And we met over X the Everything app and The Ultimate Post the Championship with the You Me Caleb and Tachiana, and we just talked fitness and like, ick up my body real bad doing connected fitness stuff. Actually, who was like fight Camp and Tonal and I was lifting real hard. I was not in a good place and I kind of went to bed. I'm like this keeps happening and I keep getting this pain. And Ben just sends me a video of him and his son.

And now I do think, Okay, so again I'm trying. I'm I really am keeping central in my vision, thinking about the other perspective and being as fair as possible. So if I'm a man listening to this podcast and I'm like, I'm lonely, and Ed's advice is go tell another man how you're feeling.

I think that the gap.

Between where a lot of men exist and being able to tell another man how you're feeling is pretty deep.

I'm going to say something simple.

It's hard to do.

If you really can't, email me easy at better offline dot com. I'm not fucking kidding. Signal me easier on seventy six. If you really want to talk about your emotions and you're too scared because your cowardly male friends are not in touch with their things, do it. I don't care you cry. I cry when I fucking need to. I'm fucking you. Solve this by facing the problem by doing stuff well.

We solve this way.

I have that weight issues, and honestly, you help me. Ben turn weightlifting into I lift light now, i'd lift volume. It's about completing things, it's about building something rather than thrashing my fucking body.

But I think we need to I think we have to start by recognizing that it is difficult for men for some reason, that we could get into Me and one of my best friends, I've known him for twenty years. I see him twice a week at minimum. We're both in therapy. We're progressive guys. We care about our emotions.

The solution there might be ask your friend a question that sounds simple. Yeah, that and this is not necessarily like how do you tell your friends how you're feeling? This likely will open up a conversation. But like your friend saying, hey, how are you doing?

Post breakup?

Arguably you it's it sounds like you had noticed that something had gone weird in his marriage. You hadn't seen his wife around for a long time, but it sounds like you didn't say, like, how are things with you and my wife?

Yeah, I didn't say anything to him either, and.

So to me, it's like asking that question, even if that feels so like such a steep hill to climb, Like I've I've been as a as a woman with feelings. I've been in conversations with my girlfriends who I'm super super close with where I'm like, god, it is really fucking hard to be like anyways, so how is your marriage doing?

Like that?

That seems like.

It seems like if the answer is good, then I'm like opening suspicion into an area that I don't need to be opening suspicion into. If the marriage is bad, if she's not telling me, there must be a reason she's not telling me. But the answer is actually just we are sort of all socialized to not reveal a

And a little bit more Sorry, but we've just stropped you in the middle of Now, this is great, but it's it's like you, you and I.

I mean, I think men and Jack are you know, we're supposed to be strong, physically strong, mentally strong, spiritually strong, all those things. You and I started talking not just about fitness, but when you were like, hey, I struggled with my weight. Yeah, like I was able to say, like, I struggled with my weight too, like, yeah, it's been two thousand and nine or so, I lost about seventy pounds.

I was big.

So I gave us, which for you is like one percent of your body mass, yeah, wund Yeah, but it's all muscle.

Yeah, more more now than he's used to. But that gave us an opportunity to like to talk over that, and that was like something that we could bond over and something we could you know, you're not the only person and that we can do. And like, I still always feel like the fat kids.

I was saying, Oh, absolutely feel fat all the time.

I feel fat right now and it's weird, right, and I always do.

And it's always like ways on me because I was a heavy kid and you're my twenties and I didn't really turn it around till it's about thirty years old. And once you figure that out and you find out that other people have gone through the same thing, then all of a sudden you can have a very different conversation about it. And it's not about lifting to go in the mister Olympia, and it's not about trying to

I will say in my experience pushing a little further on guys being like are you really okay? So a lot of guys will open up and be like, I'm not, and you have a nice conversation and you'll work. I'm The feminization of emotion is disgusting because it's like, oh my god, the amount of times artcrime and my my ole friends and vice versa, and it's felt so much fucking better.

Well, when I've cried in front.

Of you, client, I've cried close to how we met.

It is like two days later.

But it's great and it's good, and it's just it's really easy to find other stop gaps, and I want to be clear, like these companies are taking advantage of that. They're not, because I wanted to say this last episode is well, it's like the reason that there is a lonely in this epidemic is there are no third spaces, there are fewer walkable cities, and these social networking tools no longer. It is such a fucking like Dennis Leary's doll and a social networking tool don't let you socialize.

They're not designed to get people into physical space, with the exception of dating apps, which are. But even then, like yeah, true, and those are all fucked up and gamified. But like you know, what was the name of the site from like the late nineties or like meetup, dot com or dot org.

Do you yeah, me, I think they're still around.

Maybe it was literally designed to it was like sort of pre Facebook, designed to be fine stuff to do.

Meetups.

Yeah, meetups are so like that as a branded name.

Okay, well that is the focus of most social networking tools in the early days. Totally, there were a lot that were like, hey, let's get people to meet up in the real world, and now that's the last thing Facebook wants you to do.

Yes, And it's just.

There are ways that this could be fixed. I don't I'm not an inventor, but I don't know the problem being that men don't want to talk. That's not something that's an analog problem.

Yes, I'm just saying, like the prescription.

Oh no, I'm agreeing.

I'm agreeing, tangible subscription can be ask your male friend a question, any question.

A question, Yeah, and also ask ask your girlfriend as well if you have one questions.

Asking anyone in your life a questions and actually they will love well.

Really, all I want to add to this is I think it needs to start with a recognition that, like, in the same way that when I started working out, I was like, oh, yeah, everything in my life has been telling me to sit on my ass and I have to like make an effort to.

Do it right.

Well, that's even, but it was a little bit easier because yes, men are supposed to be strong, right, Everything in men's lives are sort of telling them not to open up. It is like a barrier, defensive almost, and like you have to like treat it as like this is not going to be super easy, Like I have to you know, I have to like pry it out of myself and out of my mail, which is why, like, you know, again, my friend to me was like, we need to talk.

It's been a while, which is exactly why why I'm saying, and I'm glad they did, And that's exactly why I'm trying to point out the gulf between somebody listening to this and going I feel isolated and the the other side of that crevasse of like just talk about your feelings and that I do think that there's like an easy concrete.

You're intentionally opting into something hard, yes, y right, Like that's I mean, and it's it's we are you know, to get too metaphysical, but like we're nothing if they are not challenges for us to yeah attack and doing.

Hard things can be rewarded, exactly.

Right, And like it is no harder to learn how to bench press than it is to talk about your feelings.

These are both hard and with fas as well, I had to like push past the thing of like I have to be strong. It was this incredibly negative relationship I had with my body because I was a fat person that didn't f I was a fat, sedentary piece of shit. Until I got past that, I could not

Yeah, And there's I mean, especially when it comes out like the body dysmorphius stuff and which never stops, right. I mean, there's like there's memes and jokes about it. Like I've been I've been bodybuilding for five years, Like when does the body dys morphia stop?

Like?

Oh, well it does it?

Right?

It's like you're just getting started, man, like you uh, you see the guys even not that I would ever advocate for this, but like the guys who are like the pro bodybuildings, the wind shows, and they'd be like, what are you doing him? He's very famous, like Jay Cutler who won Mister Olympia four times. They interviewed him after he won and he was They were like, what are you gonna do to celebrate? He's well, I gotta go to bed early because I got cardio in the morning.

Could think about and like you know, and and there's no finished not to be a woman.

About this, please be at I.

Just want to state for the record that I I love I am so glad that men are talking about body dysmorphia and the way that body dysmorphia shows up in women is so uh much more socially connected with our value like that like I do not I want to be like I totally get it. I do totally get it, and I get it. I think probably more than you might think I do and then just a

Well, it gets back to the wife tube thing, which I'm liking saying that phrase. I guess where it's like, Yeah, it's not a overweight woman, it's not a man. It's a sexualized presentation of the idealistic woman for the certain customer of this thing. Because I am not a woman. I experienced body dysmallphee every day, but I'm not like me being overweight is not the thing that precluded me

That's what it is.

It's that, like I think probably the emotional experience of body dysmorphia is very very similar in women and men, and and even the like men are supposed to be strong and so like there is a social value associated with that. But it is that when men fall outside of what we consider the classically attractive bounds, the way that their lives are negatively impacted tend to be much more minimal negative impacts than the way that women's lives are impacted when they fall.

Outside of the bounds of class. I would say when I was very three hundred and fifty pounds, there was definitely a level of like respect I didn't get, but it was not like it wasn't to the level where women are just fucking completely excluded if they do not look like the heteronormative idea of what a woman should look like a certain level of thinness and attractiveness and make up.

And all of these.

Yeah, it's very it's very different. Yeah, or it's just like a whole nother fun Yeah, you get, you get like several more layers of.

I mean, look at the look at the people at this conference, and look at the you know, there's people who are there's there's men walking around who are not fitting conventional, conventional notions of what an attractive man is and they're powerful, successful men at this conference, and I think you'd have a hard time finding women are in

Absolutely, and everything goes with women as well as weight loss and thinness and certain presentations and minutes about a certain level of bigness and the metrics are even different. It's just it's I'm glad we're talking about this on the show because I know we probably have more men listening than we do women. I hope, like I would love that not to be the case, But it's about technology.

Yes, well, and it's it's a technological fake solution to a real social problem that is like preying on both the customers and the women who are quite represented.

Yeah, there's this tube where you had like an anime wife you could talk to.

I probably should have multiple products.

I disculled it from the conversation. Yeah, yeah, that sounds like a terrible idea.

It's it's a really good band aid on a multitude of problems, because I maintain you want to you want to actually genuinely go talk to a priest, like I don't mean it, even if you're not religious, you just fucking maybe you need some spirituality in your life. Maybe you need more than just how you look or how you feel and trapped in your own head. They'll talk to you for a priest will talk to your all fucking day. Don't need to be religious. I'm not even joking.

Well, there's when you've never done that.

And also when the technology that is in our world is so is so effective at like pressing the immediate dopamine button, yeah, or right that, we are presented with a drug that is more instant and more powerful and more replicable than ever.

In human history.

And so why would you do something that feels bad when you can just do something that feels good right away, even if it feels bad on a long scale term and long term scale. And you sort of understand that inherently yeah, but you can still just do the drug again.

You can just press the button again. You can just feel better again.

And why wouldn't you? Of course Chinese peptides like it really does connect though. No, but we were talking about these Chinese peptids yesterday. It's like, yeah, a quick and easy solution. To be clear, you used GLP one from a doctor, brilliant. Well, however, your weight loss journey happens if that's what you need, brilliant Sadly and Ben and I can tell you can lose all the weight, be you still gonna feel bad

I said that my theme for cees is numbers you don't need.

It's just like there's no substitute for the work?

No, right, I mean like that's it, there's no But everybody's like, but is this a substitute for the worst?

Exactly?

Like we've been trying this for free.

Yes, twenty twenty six. But is this substitute for the great?

It's a great uh. I think you and I have talked about it. For him, Rollins wrote a great article. Yeah, the iron, the iron so yes, amazing were talked about like the iron never lies right at the end of the day. I forget that. I'm gonna butcher the quote, but he wraps it up. I being like, you can be the biggest guy in the room and the smallest guy in the room. You can have the best body or the worst body. You could just gotten married or

And you feel still miserable about it. And I say this is I've lost. I was three hundred and fifty pounds. I dropped to one hundred and thirty pounds when I was nineteen, and then went back up to two hundred and sixty something by the end of my like the midpoint of my thirties, and maybe a buck sixty five. Now that last part was the first time it stayed like I've stayed consistently this way, not because I've stayed

I'm good.

She it wasn't a good as it's not long before I started talking to you, Ben, And I think it's just like, it's really easy to fucking hate yourself for bad reasons and then also not really be critical of yourself for the good ones, such as I'm fucking up my body repeatedly so that I can be sexy for a woman.

And I want to add another a corollary to it's really easy to hate yourself. Yes, Also it is really easy to justify a fairly nihilist point of view. I think now more than ever, I think it's very easy to be like nothing matters and we're all gonna die, and so why am I?

Why would I try?

Or like the world is so fucked up and obviously there's no uh like to keep to rationalized to justify whatever your repeated choices are and I'm talking to myself more than.

Anybody like I have.

I have a million of these.

Ruts and that I get myself into. And I think it's very, very easy to justify self destructive choices, particularly the mildly self destructive choices, the ones that aren't like driving causing you to drive your car into a tree.

At the end of the night.

You know, like what then oh, just like eat, like.

Justifying promising yourself that you'll eat better and then not even if it's not to a crazy degree, but it's to a degree that keeps you unhealthy in a way, or like you know, it's like if you're not getting black out drunk every week, but you're like I when I drink, I wake up the next morning and I feel anxious in a way that cripples me for the whole next day. But I'm just gonna have another drink. I'm just gonna have one more drink with my friends

This is nobody saw uh Adam just dropped the nihilism thing.

I mean, like my favorite Jim T shirt that I lifted all the time is like the counterpoint to that, and it says like we're all gonna die, might as well get strong? Yeah, Like I think, is it Pascal's wager? Isn't it past right? It's like it's like that, but for life, choices exist, Like you might as well act as if God exists, because even if he does not exist, living in a moral way yourself, I totally agree.

I'm just saying.

I'm saying, like, I think a lot of people easily fall into a justification where it's not even that they like, I think that there's people listening to this who wouldn't say I hate myself, who would just say everything is.

So bah, it doesn't matter.

Yeah, yeah, and the thing.

Is or or my my jadedness is correct, not even it doesn't matter stuff where they're like it could matter, but like, look at I think people rationalize.

I also think it's really easy for guys to in particular, and no, I take that back, It's not true. Women do this kind of self harm as well. And where it's like for the beauty standards of both women and men, where it's I need to hurt, the pain is necessary, no pain, no gain.

Actually pain is not brilliant, and with woman it can often be.

I mean, they do the same thing with fitness, but like dietary stuff, with a woman, it is much harsher. It's like the ways we punish ourselves and they usually fail.

Like I am generally not.

In pain when after I woke out, I feel worked, but I feel good, And it's like that's the thing to look for. But it's really easy because you got on Instagram, especially if you like start talking about fitness in the DM and Instagram's like, oh, we're not looking, but it looks like you need some peptoides. And you can get this fucking pressure of these guys who are just they're younger than you, stronger than you, they've gone through crazier journeys, they've lost more weight, they've done this.

Got a wife, you will talk to me out lift from all.

Oh, No, it's nice to have a conversation like this in this scenario like this is well a very male dominated space and more dominated industry. And it's also scary for men to think about this stuff. And it's much easier to blame everyone else. Yeah, other men too.

That being said, I'm gonna try and lift a million pounds this year. No, but you do it because it's a million pounds of volume, that's the goal.

No, but that's fucking you're doing that.

Because I'll get there.

But you're doing it for fun.

I'm doing it for fun and because like it is, it is a it is a therapeutic thing for me. Like the joke of you know, lift heavy rock said, yeah, right, but it's like it's it's true, it is a it is a great physical thing, it's a great mental thing. It's good for my marriage, right, Like I'm a better husband, I'm a better father, I'm better professionally because I'm able to focus.

And energetic and you've energetic. Yeah, exactly, and you build something, you see the results patching over something exactly right.

I'm so glad we're talking foundational Adam.

What do you think about all that? Yeah, sorry, you've been quiet this whole time.

Oh yeah, we've been podcasting for two hours. I'm I'm a little tired. Uh yeah, No, I mean I think that, Uh, it's just the trip that I'm on is like, I do think that we underrate how much society, like all of us together as a society, push men down the wrong path on this stuff. And I think at the same time as we are saying like, you know, men need to step up and like change their attitudes, I also think we need to like create space for other men, yes,

In the it's very very is to full into the trope like, oh, poor men, but it's like the actual solution is you can say that, but only if the answer is talking to other guys, not like and that's where women come in and that's how having sex. And by the way, I would just say that will not solve your image issues. That will not do it. It's a fucking band aid too.

Yeah, I mean, adam t to your what you were just saying, I think that the solution to uh, there's I don't know that there's like a way to really solve gender dynamics, you know, fingers, but.

Like fifteen minutes, we've actually only got five.

But you know, if I were there listening to the woman say, that's kind of a think of the men, and your answer is yet it is think of the men. That's because the only way that we make any progress is with empathy and kindness, yes to the people, to every player involved in this in the scenario.

Yeah, yeah, And it's but empathy means empathy requires in respection.

Sorry I didn't mean still.

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, totally. And on that point, I'm going to end this two hour long episode. Ben Rudolph, where can we find you?

I'm on X The everything appen well, it's been the PC guy.

It's my wonderful friend Mandall.

Or you can go to cartographic dot com at c A R t O g r A f i q dot com because we wanted to make it super hard to spell.

Nice, I can I just ask that a question? Did you see one cool thing?

At the ES?

We've been talking shit on tech products and men generally. Is there anything that you were excited about?

So I haven't spent that much time around the floor. I've been working with my clients. I think there's finally some we could do another two hours away. Should we get in should we get into like the transition from AI hype to like what you can actually do with it that actually matters. I have seen some stuff that I think it's interesting and fun. I haven't seen anything that I'm like, wow, that's going to change my life.

Well that's all I want to know.

Thank you, Adam. Why don't you do your cool outs where you're going to be doing stand up?

Okay this weekend, h I'm going to be a Madison, Wisconsin Next weekend I'll be on Fort Wayne, Indiana. Then I'm going to Louisville, Kentucky at the end of January. That in early February, will be in Houston, Texas. And then I'm taping my new special at the Punchline in San Francisco February nineteen through twenty first. Adam conover dot net for tickets.

Hell yeah, Chloe, Hi.

This weekend I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio. Next weekend i am in Washington, d C. The week after that, not the weekend January twentieth, twenty first, and twenty second, I'm doing my solo show called Cheat, which is a completely separate hour. It is not the hour of stand up that I do on the road. Ed has seen it and loved it.

And as we end this show, big shout out to the departed a past last year Shan Paul Adams, friend of the show, friend of the Suite, Please donate to the Pediatric EPILEEPSI Research Consultium in honor of his son, who is epileptic. His family would deeply appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening. We've gotten other two hours for you coming soon. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T T O S O W s ki dot com. You can email me at easy at Better offline dot com or visit better Offline dot com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat dot Where's youreed dot at to visit the discord, and go to our slash Better Offline to check out our reddit.

Thank you so much for listening.

Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the home, schools, school