Welcome back to The Better Divorce Podcast. I am your host, Paulette Rigo, and I'm here to guide you through the storm of divorce into much calmer waters. So hold tight whether you're contemplating divorce in the thick of it or just rebuilding post-avours. I've got you covered. Each episode will tackle the tough topics, share resilient stories, and offer practical, helpful advice to help you navigate with confidence wisely.
Remember, you're not alone. I've been there, and so have millions of others, and your brighter future awaits. I promise. Ready to turn a tough time into a time of growth? I know you are. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you find this content helpful, please share it with others who might benefit. Now, let's dive into today's topic. See you soon. Whose tablet do we have? hard, you know, changes with grace, you know, especially in a male dominated world.
So I just want to kick it over to you. Tell me a little bit more about Paula. Well, thank you. What a gracious introduction, ladies. I'm not often introduced as a divorce BFF, but that's what I am. Some have called me a divorce concierge. I have my Ph.D. in divorce. I'm a cheerleader, quarterback, a wide GPS blueprint. I don't know how many more little analogies you want me to throw in there, but I've been there, done that. But you must know everyone listening. I'm not pro-divorce.
You know, I did not ever wake up at the rightful age of whatever and say, I'm going to be a divorce expert. No. Who does that? I mean, I don't know that any of us say we're going to be an expert at anything. But what is it that gives us knowledge, but experience, right? So I met my first husband at the ripe old age of 17. In fact, I had just turned 17. So think back to that. Who knows anything? I didn't know my elbow from my. You know what? And got married at 22, turning 23.
And I thought that was plenty of time just graduated from college. And naturally, it was on my list of things to do. Be a good girl, get good grades, go to ballet, date, fall in love. Oh, I forgot about go to college and graduate and get a good job. And write those out like the things on my list of things to do. And of course, get married and have children. So I just was, I had my nice long pad of paper and I was taking all the little checks.
And before I knew it, I realized, oh my, what did I do? Not that everything was crazy or bad. You know, I think anything in life, particularly relationships, have their good and they're not so good and they're uncomfortable in this. And we're young. You know, we're learning. Because I didn't feel that it didn't take me too long to realize that when I got married, I didn't marry a man. I married a family. Right? And that's okay, ladies.
You know, I mean, part of getting married is not only taking your spouse, but also the whole entourage. Some of them have bigger steam or trunks of entourage than others. Some of them might just have brothers and sisters or parents, grandparents, you know, the normal, but then there might be aunts and uncles and cousins and lots of them. I came from a family where I had two sisters that were much older than I am.
And I did, they were more like aunts to me, more than sisters because of the age difference. I kind of in many ways thought of them as babysitters and no disrespect to them, but you know, when you're two, when your sisters are in high school or middle, you know, junior high as we used to say back in the day, you didn't really have that kind of relationship. So my parents were, I was sort of the, it was a mule mommy and daddy. My mother was an only child and my father only had one brother.
So I had four cousins. So holidays were civil, quiet, you know, when you have a small family, but then I got married into this big family. I was wide open and I was like, OMG. So anyway, they were, I learned a lot. It was wonderful. I made, you know, it was a very good, good memories of the family. But when, after 21 years of marriage, I realized, oh, this is not a healthy relationship for many reasons. And I don't think we have time to get into that today. Although maybe we do another time.
I realized that, okay, if I'm going to leave this marriage, I'm not divorcing a man. I'm divorcing a family. And because of that, I was the first person to ever really request a divorce from the men and the family. I honestly, his two sisters had already gotten divorced. So I thought, oh, this won't be too bad. But it was, I personally endured an eight and a half year, fully litigated divorce case that included a 12 day trial, the 12 day trial took place over nine months.
I know, no, you'd think of the word a 12 day trial. And by the way, they don't tell you it's going to be nine, 12 days. But if you did know, you'd think it would be Monday through Friday, Monday through Friday, Monday Tuesday, right? No. Doesn't work that way. It was nine months, September to June, to be exact. And there were two years of preparation to even get to that point, which is known as discovery in interrogatories.
But then in my case, it went even deeper with a gatekeeper, a special master, confidentiality agreements. You name it. There were private investigators and all of them are kind of convoluted and crazy. And that took about three years. And then after the judge's decision, of course, after the trial, he took nine months to make his decision. I could have given birth to another baby in that amount of time, no kidding. Nine months, how ironic, right? That it was nine months.
Yeah. And then once the judge's decision came down, which was February, it's 90 days to become active, depending on the state you live in, every state is different, sometimes 30, sometimes 60, sometimes 90, who's counting at that point. My ex and his family did not like the judge's decision. So they appealed it on 17 counts. And it took an additional four years in state supreme appellant court, not supreme court like in DC. Don't I say supreme court, it scares people.
But every state has its own appellant court and supreme appellant court. So that's why I spent about a decade, ish, in court in a litigated situation. And because of that, I learned everything, literally, that was a quote from my attorney about the divorce process. Now there are five methods of divorce and only four things that courts care about. I have it down to a science.
And that is one of the reasons, after thousands of people have reached out to me over this period of time, where the conversation would start with, I read about your case, I heard about your case, why is this taking so long? He seems like a great guy. Are you okay? You know, what's going on? Curiosity, right? Good news travels fast, but as you know, bad news travels faster. So the conversation would usually end with, can you help me?
And I would say no at first, because I didn't know what the heck I was doing. How could I possibly help someone else if I'm drowning in my own everything? But eventually, I said, sure, come on over. What have I got to lose? Made a good amount of coffee, poured a good amount of wine, and listened to hundreds of stories to copious notes, not only in court when I was in court, but also just curious. Like, what are the things that people are doing wrong?
Or what are the mistakes that people are making? And it ended up becoming a number one best-selling book, called Better Divorce Blueprint. It's a 307-page book, 197-page workbook, an audio book for those that would prefer to listen to it in the car, in their own little private Idaho. So no one really knows what you're listening to. And now, of course, so that I can help people all over the world, not legally, because the laws are different in each state, each country.
But there's so many parallels and so many similarities of the mistakes that we make. And that's where I branded the work as Better Divorce. I used to just do it under my name, but once it became a movement, a purpose, a calling, a longing to help others avoid court, so they can save a ton of money in unnecessary legal fees, avoid the litigious litigated process, and divorce an average of less than 90 days without ever stepping foot in a courtroom. Now, again, I'm not pro-divorce.
I'm actually very happily remarried. And I do not run around handing out my business card to people saying, you look miserable. You look miserable. You look miserable. But there have been a few times when I've been out with my husband, and he's leaned over and whispered in my ear. They need your help. So that's what I do.
I'm either acting as a credentialed private family law mediator, an alternative dispute resolution expert in mediation, and or a certified divorce coach, and specializing in high conflict litigated cases. I'm also the director of coaching and case management for a company called Divorce, where I work with company employees and match them to one of our divorce coaches. And we have a department, a wing, a branch, shall we say, in divorce sensitivity training for HR departments.
So that's why I have my PhD in divorce. I mean, I mean, yeah, and as negative as the whole subject is, right, because nobody goes into a marriage expecting divorce. What's empowering is you've created a better path forward for people through your experience. I'm going to ask a basic question. Ask a way. Do you have like a few top reasons why women search for divorce based on all of the women you've worked with that you can share? Yeah. It starts with a yearning.
There are some sort of trigger or an event doesn't have to be monumentous, don't get nervous. It isn't like, it can be, don't get me wrong, it could be a monumental event, but it could just be a little calling, a yearning, a longing in your soul that saying something isn't right. Yeah. I say it's like wearing someone else's shoes that don't fit, or even worse, ladies, using someone else's toothbrush. You know what's that icky feeling? I know, you're friends, right?
You know, I mean, I've had those times traveling where maybe I've forgotten my toothbrush. I mean, real human, and I've probably asked permission from my husband. Yeah. He's like, you know, so you see that look on your face, right? But it's not an external, it's an internal, it. Where you feel you're not clear on your why, why is it that my marriage, my relationship, and it doesn't even have to be marriage.
What many mothers don't understand is when you have a child together, you're now entering into a, a legal finding contract because you have to co-parent whether you're married or not, and at some point, you know, what is the cohabitation thing? Is it a week, a month, a year, if you're living together or not, if for some reason the relationship doesn't work out, you still have to raise that child together, whether you're co-parenting, parallel parenting, or God forbid, I say counter-parenting.
That's another conversation we can have. But there's that initial feeling of what's wrong. Now, there are 21 top reasons couples divorce. And the more you have, the harder it is to stay in a healthy marriage. If you're the one that's feeling that getting clear on your why and that confusion of, why do I feel like I'm wearing someone else's shoes that don't fit? They're uncomfortable. Why are you uncomfortable? Why are you feeling like you just brushed your teeth with someone else's shoes?
Just toothbrush, the egg factor, right? If you can get really clear in your mind and your soul and your heart about the why, you are going to have an easier time understanding. Can this marriage be fixed? Dare I say saved? Is it manageable or is it time to really pull in the big guns with mental health practitioners, marriage or relationship coaches or counseling? And whatever the acronym is after someone's name, it doesn't really matter how many fancy letters or after their name.
You need to feel a, ooh, like a strong bond with that therapist, that counselor, that coach. Because you are now emotionally vomiting, not only everything that's in your brain on them. You need to totally trust them. And I don't suggest giving all of that experience and confusion to someone you don't trust. Many times a relationship will go off the rails because a partner has read the journal. Or you told the wrong person that you thought you could really put your life in their hands.
So it's important that you find someone if you are still living in your own little two years as the average amount of time women contemplate this before they tell anyone. So what do they do? Back in the day they spent a lot of time in a bookstore in the self-help department. Or self-help, I don't know, aisle, right?
But now that we have these things called social media and Google for the last 15, 20 years, of course everyone just spends hours at two in the morning, Googling, what do I do when I feel whatever, right? And sometimes you can't always believe everything that you find on the internet, right? A lot of times. Yes, so to answer your question, it's an internal voice of something's wrong.
And you're trying to litmus test it, you know, trying to dissect or discern or reason in a very logical manner of something that is highly emotional. And that's hard to do is to determine or to see it as railroad tracks. They're congruent and they're parallel and they go together, but they don't intersect or cross. And on one side of the railroad tracks, you can see that in your head, right? Railroad tracks.
Yes. Is the psychological mental, emotional, physical, sexual, spiritual side of love and marriage and romance and parenting and all the, shall we say, beautiful love letter, part of it? You have to be all the warm and fuzzy teddy bear part of it. And on the other side of the railroad tracks is a spreadsheet. It's just the judicial, legal, financial, residential lending insurance and taxes side of marriage and romance and courtship and all that.
And unfortunately, in many cases, divorce, statistically speaking, about half of first marriages and in divorced ladies. That's just a fact. That doesn't mean pullets running around going, yay! If anything, I'm not. But that's a fact. And it gets worse with second and third marriages. I know it's about 60% on second and 73% of third marriages. So we don't get it right. We keep screwing up.
Is that based on age as well or is that just based on like, I read once that if you're over the age of 30 when you get married, the chances of divorce go down over 40, so on so forth, or is that a mess? That is very, very correct. So not to say that I advocate everyone get married at 65. You know, I mean, you know, but actually the older you are, the less likely you are going to get divorced. Now there is a counter argument to that is what's called gray divorce.
So gray divorce is a divorce that is happening after the age of 50. And silver is over the age of 62 when social security kicks in. But traditionally speaking, if you get married, you know, at 19, you know, well, pick on the young set, 18, 19, 20, which is really young now, you know, back in the day everybody got married at, you know, as soon as, you know, you got your period and you were out of the house, you could have married, right?
I know I'm talking about the Vikings and all that going back to the 1300s, everybody, but you know, biologically speaking, if you were old enough to have children, you could get married. We don't roll that way anymore. But you know, what do we get? You got, you got graduate high school. Maybe you got a higher education. You graduate your 21. You got a job or several. And you fall in love and get married at, I don't know, 25, 28, whatever it is.
Now chances are because you're younger, 50% of divorce happens between the fourth and the eighth year of marriage. Oh, it's interesting. Right? So why? Because you're not prepared. And you think that, sorry, marriage is a romantic notion based on a white dress and the texedo and the cake and this thing called a wedding and honeymoon. And it's not. I mean, that's all lovely. Don't get me wrong. We all love it. Who doesn't love the wedding? Although they're very expensive. So expensive.
So expensive. A loaf if you can. Anyway, I'm just being silly. So now, if you wait until after a certain point, you have lived, you have a firm stance in knowing who you are. You have an inner knowingness of what makes you tick, what you love, right? What makes you feel purposeful? Why you're here? Why you're taking up space? You know, there's an inner independent conviction of knowing who you are. It isn't. It is. Yeah, your happiness isn't dependent on another person.
Now, another person could grow that, blossom it, complement it and make it more enjoyable, right? But it isn't necessarily the only thing that makes you who you are. Now, if you are getting married to solve a problem or to recreate a childhood dynamic that was perhaps missing, right? You're longing to recreate a childhood that maybe you didn't have.
So many women feel like if I find the perfect spouse or partner and I fall in love and get married and I perhaps didn't have the greatest role model in motherhood or fatherhood or parent hood or, you know, we're not blaming our childhood. But there's a little bit of romantic notion that we can correct that. We can make it normalize it. We can undo that pattern.
And there's a little bit of truth to that, sure, but it takes a lot of knowledge and education and maturity and experience and confidence and a congruent marriage that both partners are on board with that, with values and goals and having a congruent life goal, right? If one person wants to live a traditional life with living in the white picket fence house with the 2.2 kids and, you know, the traditional stay-at-home parent model and maybe you haven't even discussed that.
And I'm being very stereotypical. And, you know, maybe you want five kids. Who knows? And the other person doesn't really want that, but they just kind of go along with it because, well, you know, that's what we're supposed to do. Then now you're setting yourself up for a very different trajectory. So it's different. So I know it's a very loaded question, but it's an important one to examine from a point of why things feel uncomfortable.
And are you in your spouse or your date or your fiance or your new spouse willing to have those difficult conversations? Where you put the ring on the finger and you marched on the aisle or the beach or the, whether it, you know, wherever you get married, everyone's different. Are you willing, in your own conviction, to have those difficult conversations? And if you're both not, chances are you're going to need me than not.
Yeah. It's good to know that, you know, some people might be listening thinking like, I didn't have any of those conversations, but now I know I need to. I have one question, another question. So you said previously that it takes women two years before they're able to speak about the thought of potentially getting a divorce. What are the statistics around the percentage of women versus men that actually initiate the divorce? Great question.
So on my website, betterdivorceacademy.com, I have a banner at the top that has the recent statistics and they changed, so don't hold me to it. And to answer your question, yes, divorces depended. Those statistics are based on age, yes, you know, whether you're 30 or 60, demographics, proximity where you live, how many children you have, income, education, blah, blah, blah, demographics have a lot to do with the percentage of which a person is more susceptible to being a statistic of that.
So I can't put that on the front page of the website, but it's just an overall, and it isn't to scare people. It's to educate you. I want everyone to know male, female, young, old, tall, short, polka dot, doesn't matter. That divorce is a fact of life. And if you can do everything in your power to prevent it, you should, right, because it's expensive and it's long and it's difficult.
With that aside, of the couples that get married, and there's a lot, right, of the bride, the wedding industry, I think is almost as big as the divorce industry. Now I don't have the statistics on the wedding industry. You could probably Google it now, but the divorce industry is a $50 billion industry, with the B, billion, $50 billion. That's globally or in the US. That is annually in the US. annually. Yeah. So there's a documentary that everybody should watch.
It's called Divorce Corp, C-O-R-P, like corporation. It's a 45-hour minute documentary. Now, watching it doesn't make you more likely to get divorced. In fact, it makes you less likely to get divorced. So education is came, right? Now back to the men and women thing. 70, about 72% of divorce is either initiated or filed by women. 30% is initiated or filed by men.
And two years is the average amount of time, average ladies, mamas, average amount of time that women contemplate that very difficult, painful, overwhelming, fearful thought for two years before they tell anyone whether that be a mother, a sister, an aunt, a neighbor, your hairdresser, anybody. You know, it's always, what is that saying? The bartender or the hairdresser knows. Right? What are those weak moments where you're like, oh my god, when they say, how are you when you go, fine.
And you're just be- I'm saying it. You've got an hour running down your face. Or you are brave and everything is great. I love my girl. I think I'm going to do a bob. Yeah, exactly. Because how many times have somebody said to you, how are you? And you just go, fine, when you're really not. Right? Okay, you know, we can't just all follow on the floor like a blob, like an amoeba, you know, a one-celled organism where we're just like, you know, so that initial feeling of fear.
And then again, I mentioned those top 21 reasons, couples divorce, and I'm happy to quickly run through them if you want. But because it divorces initiated the thought of something's wrong, we're going to typically research it more. Men tend to be, everything's fine, I'll fix it. I'm going to run in and save the day. And they tend to be less emotionally connected. And this isn't a condescending comment that men tend to be more or less emotionally intelligent.
It's not a, a criticism of their intelligence, but they tend to be less connected to their emotions. Yeah. Right? So women being mothers, you know, are more sensitive or shall we say connected to emotions? Right? Whether those be positive emotions or negative emotions or even neutral ones. And by the way, emotions change. We're not always happy. Right. We're not always sad that they change and fluctuate in the norm. Just like day and night, right and left, up and down, male and female.
Like, they're opposites. It's, you know, we get that. But when you are more connected and aware of those emotions, then you tend to be the person that has that internal dialogue, research, writing, journaling, therapy, reading books, researching, listening to podcasts. You know, finding experts like myself to say, I love him. I adore the family, but I'm so uncomfortable. What do I do? What can I do to fix it? Right?
So those initial conversations that you have when they're with yourself, feel less scary because no one knows about it. Right. It's a good amount of accountability part. Yeah. You're paranoid like did somebody, I don't know if you've ever had a thought and you stop yourself to say, did I just think that or did I say it? Right. Every day. Like, oh, I'm glad you guys are normal. Welcome to the human race.
So when you have a thought and it's a, I mean, you know, how many times do we say, okay, this could be, I hope nobody's offended, but you know, you look at a very attractive human being and they're like, very, you know, he's sexy. He's a great man. I mean, I like love to have sex with that, where I was saying, you know, just because you're thinking it in your own little world, doesn't mean you're going to run out and do it. Right?
Or, I mean, how many times I know that's a way to sample, but it's true. You know, you're like, you know, what is that? Hey, James, hall pass to the right. Oh, or somebody, it doesn't really matter what the thought is. It's, but because you think it's a, right. It's right. Exactly. But then maybe you think it again and again and again and you start to think, like, is anybody else thinking about something?
You know, whether it's a movie or you're right, you know, or it could just be like, I don't know, like, it could be anything. Like, yeah, somebody's really good. I think a lot of work. Yeah, yeah, like a coworker, just whether they have a audio or, or they have that breath, or they're just really annoying people and you're thinking to yourself, oh, please tell them to stop, tell them to stop.
And you're thinking, you're having this thought and you look around thinking, am I the only one that's having this thought? Right. So, let's go, so let's go to marriage now. But so that's just an internal thought. But when you're thinking those thoughts about your spouse, yeah. Uh-oh. It's one thing to talk about a Hollywood movie star. It's one thing to talk about somebody on the sidewalk or to think about it. It's a one thing to think about a song on the radio.
How many times have we heard a song on the radio or, you know, that you go, I hate this song? Or does everybody like this song? Well, I'm going to pretend I like it because everybody else likes it. And, you know, I mean, you have to like Taylor Swift if you don't. You're just a bad person, right? Or something weird about you. So I don't even pick on poor Taylor Swift. But there's pop culture. So we all look at the term we love everything.
Like, you have to, but when it's your spouse or dare we are our child or something, you know, you're, you're suddenly now nervous. Yeah. So if you feel like there's something about the marriage, whether it be infidelity, money, lack of communication, I'm going through the list now, arguing, bickering, unrealistic expectations, lack of intimacy, lack of equality, not being prepared. That's the 40 to 50 percent of divorces that happen in the fourth to eighth year.
Abuse addiction, different parenting styles. Didn't marry for love, lack of disclosure, lack of sincerity, lack of identity or self-esteem, irreconcilable differences. That's kind of like the cat and dog thing. Long distance relationships, moving. I want to live in a warm climate. I want to live in a hot climate. I want to live in a cold climate. I love skiing. I'm good skiing. You know, parenting styles, the permissive Disney parent versus the, eat your carrots and do your homework parent.
Didn't marry for love, lack of disclosure, a long distance. I think I said that one. Oh, interference from parents and family. Oh, that's a tough one. Control issues. And then the real kicker, your spouse's gay. Uh-oh. That's a big one. Yeah, that's a, well, it's one of the reasons. Oh, of course, and there's one of the 20 reasons couples to go.
So, um, you know, some people stay married and think they can go to therapy and I hate to use the word fix that, but it, it was hard to stay married to somebody if they're not attracted to. You're not attracted, yeah. For sure. Yeah. So whatever the reason is, it could just be, you know, climate. Let's say you love the sunshine in the beach and you want to live in Florida. When your spouse loves Montana and skiing and the cold weather and the mountains. Uh-oh. Yeah. It could be a problem.
Now, if you can work it out, it's not the reason to run to the divorce lawyer. But if it prolongs for years and years and years and years and the other person doesn't acknowledge or recognize that, then it could be a problem. Right? Yeah. So, hold on. If you're listening, though, hold on. I just going to get this outside.
I'm going to be listening and you are in two different climates and if you are particularly a woman stuck in the climate that you do not want to be and do not have a baby because then you're really stuck. I just had to get that out. That is a really good point because now you have to co-parent, married or not with somebody that loves to ski or I'm picking on skiing, snowboard or jump out of helicopters and do avalanche training and whatever, ice fishing.
You know, if they love wearing turtle necks and parkas and you'd rather hang out in your bikini, we're going to have a problem. And I don't mean just on vacation, but yeah, you now have to stay until they're 18. All right, Ms. Pollett, I have a question. So, let's say you've been contemplating divorce. You know, the average you said was two years. So, two years you've been going back and forth. When do we contact you? Yesterday. Yeah, the sooner the better.
Do not fear, Pollett is here, but that doesn't mean that working with me means you're going to divorce. There's a lot of work we need to do to walk through the first three chapters of my book. We have to, and I'm scrolling back to the index, very important chapters one, two and three are before. The contemplating, thinking, researching, knowledge part is vital to you are being able to make smart, wise decisions.
If you jump into the ocean or the lake or the pool or whatever body of water, unprepared you're going to drown. You need to have somebody that's taught you how to swim. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm going to have to throw you a life preserver and drag you out gagging. The thought process getting clear on your why is very important. We touched on that a little bit. Why is it uncomfortable?
Your thought process, feeling your feelings, deciding what you want, understanding your core values and goals, taking ownership and responsibility for the part that you may have played in the demise of your relationship. Not any one person is solely responsible for that. It takes two to tango. Both parties hold some responsibility. It may not be 50, 50, but taking ownership of the part that you played is key. Deal breakers, understanding all of them and they're a 31.
How to prepare and protect yourself. Knowing that hero inside yourself, strength, resiliency, integrity, authenticity, really understanding that initial foundation. How to tell the children. What to tell the children. What not to tell the children. When to tell the children. When not to tell the children. How much to tell the children. All of those things are so key. You haven't told them. You're just learning those things. You're just learning, right?
How to decide what's right for you, your family and your spouse. The courts don't really care. They don't have time for that. They're not bad people. But it isn't a hand holding process. It's here's the law. Who's the plaintiff? Who's the defendant? All right, give me the evidence and let's make a decision. The wings and methods of ending a divorce. There are five DIY three forms of mediation, collaboration, arbitration, and good old-fashioned litigation.
And 97% of cases that litigate do not go to trial like I did. 3% do and only 1% of that 3% that do go to trial go to the appeals court. So you can see why my experience was so rare. The mediate outside influences. That could be your conscience, your mind, your sister, your neighbor, your boss, your mother, anybody, because everybody has their own agenda. They all come to it with, oh no, you can't get divorced. Or what took you so long? I'm not joking.
I've heard that, you know, I always say, so what did you so insist? You say, oh, they said, well, I've been waiting for you to tell me this for the longest amount of time. Right, practicing mindfulness. Ignorance is not bliss. You've got to gather your evidence. You have to understand the financial aspect of it. What's premarital? What's non-marital? And what's marital? Creating a budget. Understanding the lawyers speak. Because there is a lawyer speak to this.
How to choose your advocates that might be your neighbor. It might be anybody to really act as an advocate for you, depending on how contentious your case may be. And journaling, planning, and having a calendar. Managing stress very well. Communicating with family and friends, caring for yourself, nurturing your soul, and being able to realize that trusting your spouse to do the right thing is the number one mistake women make. Yeah. Yeah. Going back to women being so emotional.
You know, it's like when you get to that point where you're like, you know, I think I am going to file. Do you suggest people like read your book that start the workbook before they contact you? Like, what's the best method? Because I feel like most people like, I have no idea what to do. My second question is for women that don't do the budget, don't control the finances, don't have all of that. What the hell do you do?
Yeah. So let's, those are two very important questions and make sure I answer both. So for the, for the first ideal roadmap, the blueprint in a perfect world, you would reach out to me first, you would purchase my book and workbook and go ahead and read it. And as you're reading it, whether it's chapter by chapter lesson by lesson, I would be there with you as a sounding board, as a thinking partner, as an accountability BFF, as you said, right?
Not to make your decisions for you, but to educate you about your specific situation. Again, the book is a blueprint for everyone that asks a lot of questions. I can run out before we end and show everybody. The book is a 307 page soft color, it's not color book, but the workbook is a 197 page hardcover workbook. Every time I ask a question in the book, there's a place in the workbook to answer the question. So you have an accountability partner, right?
The thinking partner to not only let you have that sacred space and container, that safe place that you may not have. Again, trusting your spouse and other people as a confidant could be an issue. Many times people would say, your wife just called me and told me she wants a divorce. Yeah, you can't trust anyone. Could you imagine you've not only lost a friend, which you probably are better off? That is a big problem.
And now you don't even trust yourself to trust anyone else because the lack of trust is shot to heck, right? So having that person to help you, not again, not make your decisions for you, but to hold your hand and do that. That may be a call once a month. It could be every day. It really depends on how contentious, how complicated it is. If there is a addiction and abuse issues, you might need a lot more support. Then if it's really just, I just don't like the guy.
Yeah. You know, and no judgment, right? So if that isn't the case, and you just found out about me in your already two years divorced and you're having a hard time because chapters one, two, and three are before. Four, five, and six are during and seven and eight are after. There's still so many things to do after a divorce, number one, to financially be stable. Number two to co-parent with grace and wisdom and dignity. And number three to never need me again. Love that.
I'm the only professional in the planet that does not want a repeat client. I'm not a hairdresser. I don't want to see you once a month. Nothing personal, right? I mean, unless we're doing it together, you know, there are some clients I do see once a month every day because they're going through litigated cases. And I, there's FaceTime, Zoom, you know, we live in a digital world. I'm in Atlanta. You guys are all over. It doesn't matter anymore where you live.
All of my clients used to be in New England at Massachusetts because that's where I was born and grow up. But that changed when I moved to Belize in 2016 because I had clients all over the world. And now, you know, literally all over the world. So ideally, if you're in the early stages, the more benefit, if you're in the middle and you're already litigating or mediating, no problem.
We're going to try to pick up the pieces, work with what's been done and work forward to get you out so you can save money, try to keep your legal fees as low as possible. And there's many methods to how I do that. And allow you to not say the wrong thing because everything you say and do will be used against you. So you have to make sure that you're, you reverse engineering this to say what would the judge say, right? And if you're already done, are you going to change your name?
How do you date wisely in the digital age? How do you financially create a new life for yourself so that you're not living under a bridge? I know that's pretty dramatic to say that. It's a fear. You won't be, but you know, feeling stable and secure. That's so important that you have a plan. Yeah. Now the second question, if you wouldn't mind re-asking it. The second question is like if you are the partner that's not responsible for finances budgets, like what do you do?
We're going to put on your FBI CIA agent hat. There's many things I do to help my clients get in the know as fast as they can. Now, that doesn't mean we're going to break into the login and password on your spouse's laptop. That's fine. But there are things that you can do strategically wisely and privately before you have to hire a forensic accountant. Now I'm going into lawyer speak so I don't want to overwhelm anyone.
If you have not shared any of your fear and anxiety and you've not dropped, I want a divorce. Don't use the D word or the N word, divorce or narcissist. So have to be careful what those words are. So you never want to say, I want a divorce or you're a narcissist. Don't do that. Don't do that. You can tell me that you want a divorce. You can tell me that you think your spouse is a selfish, evil manipulative, game playing jerk. That's fine. You can call him any name or her, any name in the book.
Doesn't matter. I'm safe. Mm-hmm. Yep. Your spouse is not. As soon as they think you want a divorce, they will do two things. Well, general categories. They will dissipate marital funds. They'll go buy a Ferrari. Mm-hmm. I'm joking. Not the Ferrari. They just spend money because they can. You want to give it to you? Yeah. Yeah. They're going to dissipate marital funds as a legal term or they're going to hide it or try to.
They buy crypto or they go to the bank and they take out 10 grams and they give it to their brother and say, hide it for me. So they do things to try to hide assets and how do they do that? They buy things that only they have access to or they hide it by the Cayman Islands, Switzerland, or family. Right? Now there's three categories of funds and I did mention premarital, non-marital and marital. Marital funds in general are everything that the couple has created from the wedding to now today.
Right? Right? If it was premarital, it may not be yours, right? Just like it may not be theirs. And inheritance too. So again, I'm not giving you legal advice but there's many different ways of looking at assets and those are things you need to work in. I asked the right questions. What is it that you have? And we fill out what's known as a domestic relations financial affidavit together.
And when you say, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, uh oh, that's a red flag. So what we do during that period of research and, you know, is to slowly start to go into the office, into the file cabinet and look at the mail, maybe go down to the bank and you know, act like I'm going to say a dumb blonde and say, hi.
I seem to have lost my debit card or whatever, you know, and get to know somebody that works at the bank and see if you can find out what accounts that you do in fact have because if you had them and you don't have access to them, that could be a problem. Now, if you're livigating, it is required of both parties to complete a domestic relations financial affidavit, which is called a DARFA in all 50 states. So sometimes it's called a marital balance sheet or an MBS, but it doesn't matter.
It's the same thing. It's a spreadsheet of everything you own. Cash, checking, savings, real estate, cars, coffee makers, clothing, jewelry, investments 401k, pensions, stock bonds, money markets, certificate of deposits, crypto. I could keep going for hours on what the categories are. And it's very before you decide who gets what, you got to figure out what you have. And your job is to be a little bit of an FBI agent, right? To kind of investigate.
You'd be curious to find out what you see in the trash and the junk mail. If you're getting a lot of junk mail from Bank of America, you probably have a Bank of America account. What if you're separated during this time and like you're not living in the same floor? That is a problem. So then you have to file a motion for the court to ask the other side to present or not, this is an illegal term, cough up all those documents that they don't want to share.
Yeah. And that's when it starts to get expensive. I have a question. If I, let's say I'm a stay at home mom, I don't have access to money and I want your help. Is there a way to get that paid for in the divorce? Yes. You know, it's a little tricky. It depends again, how contentious it is. There are seven forms of abuse, mental, emotional, psychological. Those are the three that are very difficult to document and we have to do a historical timeline. I do that with clients a lot.
I'll show you a little example on my, see how that's like a timeline. I do that with clients from the day they meet. So we have to show for the court that you haven't had access to money throughout the course of your marriage. You can't just walk in and go, I don't have any money and he controls it all. I mean, you can say that, but it's not going to hold your water anymore. So we have to prove that you really have been financially abused, right? Which is a part of abuse.
So physical and sexual are the two that get all the press, broken bones, black eyes, scratches, as they should. Those are a lot easier to document, right? Although a lot of women hide it. Glasses, makeup, I'm fine. You know, it loses, oh, I fell, I walked into the wall, broken dishes, slammed doors, punching holes in the wall. It doesn't mean to be you, it can still be a violent, aggressive behavior.
Financial control, as I mentioned, if you don't have any way to pay bills, put gas in the car, buy groceries and clothes for the children and you don't have access or knowledge about your marital assets, that is considered financial abuse and it's considered intimate partner domestic violence and abuse, not violence, but abuse. And lastly, spiritual abuse, that is when you feel like your spirit's been broken.
So if you feel those controlling attributes, there are many ways that you can now ask the court to pay your legal fees, but I am an independent person and I'm a mediator. So depending on your state, mediation can be, what's the word, reimbursed during the process. But typically, this is work we do way early, or you are asking the court to modify or to what's a presenter award, what are known as temporary orders.
So in those cases, many women have to get part time jobs, not just to pay me, but to get through the divorce period because whether you work with me or not, it's divorces and free. So that is most women do get part time jobs and that's why many women become entrepreneurs interestingly enough or they go back to school to get a job. But many times, family will help too, whether that be, you know, family is aware of the problem.
There are many ways to raise funds and I also try to make it very affordable so you're not flopping down a very big fee. It's case by case and there are many times if there's a lot of financial control and the woman doesn't have any access to funds, a credit card, a checking account or any access to funds that I will absolutely do what I can to help them financially. So yeah. That's awesome.
So as we wrap, you know, it seems like obviously the big takeaway here is there's a lot of long-term potential complications and implications if you don't have your shit together. It's completely, yeah. That's true. Yes, my dear. You have to be the owner of your household. But side of that, you know, the most beautiful thing about you and your organization is how you are empowering women to get through this difficult time. Can you share a success story that's really resonated with you?
Oh, so many. Which one? Which one? Yes. She will not mind that I use her first name. Her name is Nadia and she came to me about four years ago and she is married with three children, intimate partner violence, domestic violence, call it what you will. It's been relabeled and terrified, absolutely terrified, a very controlling, religious dogma person. Divorce was not an option. It was seen as a sin, which also can be a difficult stigma, right?
So a lot of education, she went to an attorney when she found me she had an attorney that was helpful but not as helpful as she needed. Long story, got her divorced, got primary custody of the children, not soul custody. And with encouragement and some lot of soul searching that we did gave her a purpose in life. She applied for medical school. She went to Emory University here in Atlanta and became a registered nurse.
She now is a nurse practitioner and a private practice but she was an ER nurse for a domestic violence ward in the hospital helping women come in. And because of her personal experience, empathy and medical training, she was able to help hundreds of women. That's what I mean. Through their journey and also to share enough about her personal journey that she empowered them to get out of abusive marriages with wisdom and grace and dignity in an affordable manner.
Now, full circle, she just won soul custody of all three children. She is in a wonderful career. She is articulate and beautiful and intelligent and a survivor. And she is just a wonderful example of reaching out, getting the professional help that she needed, getting the right attorney, the right expert and the right support that she needed to feel empowered and knowledgeable and strong enough to be able to do that for not only herself but her three children. Oh my gosh.
I got like the chills thinking about that. I mean, that's the key here, right? You know, not just getting help yourself and seeking the help but then sharing it with others. I think it's, I mean, everything that you do is amazing. She, her middle child is a girl and her name is Scarlett. And she's started a foundation. I don't know if it's the Scarlett project or the Scarlett something, but it's just in the beginning of, I'm encouraging her to start that.
It's, I think that it's a lovely name too because of Scarlett's name too. And she is quite the little Scarlett if you get my drift. Yeah. You know, to be able to take something painful. Yeah. And I'm not, I mean, I believe in marriage, everyone. I'm happily married. I love marriage. When marriage works and when the relationship is healthy, you can create the most beautiful life, not only for yourself, but your family and your children.
And being a shining example of what being in a healthy marriage looks like, right? Because that's what I said to Nadia. I said, if I teach you nothing, and this was four years ago, you, I am instructing you, whatever happens with the divorce, it is your responsibility to teach your sons that this is not the way they treat their girlfriends and wives and future and their children.
And you are teaching your daughter that this is not an acceptable way for a man in their life and her life to treat her. And it was a very difficult conversation, but one in which she took wholeheartedly, you know, it is not only something you do for yourself, but an example that you exude about how you step up to the plate, speak your truth, stand tall in your convictions and are and ask the court to award you what is rightfully, legally yours, right? Yeah. And it's not easy.
And they'll do whatever they can to insult you and gaslight you. We don't want to get into all the terminology of the technology, but just make you feel crazy. Make you feel like you're a crazy, crazy person. And knowing that you're not, because you've spoken to somebody else like Nadia, who has gotten through that, is the legacy that she is leaving for her children. Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely incredible. Paul, can we come there and just like have a wine night with you?
Because I feel like it would be so much fun just standing out with you. Your energy is infectious. For all of our listeners, betterdivorceacademy.com, we will have links to all of her resources, her book, everything. And the PDF that I can also share to it's called the 12 worst divorce mistakes women make. But actually, I think I do rename it because I do the 12 common divorce mistakes to avoid and what to do instead. Oh my goodness. Thank you for sharing that.
So I'll leave an email at you when you both can share. You have, I'll give you all a digital copy of my book. I want everyone to know that my heart is with you. And be positive. Get the right help you need. I don't say all these difficult things to scare you. I say all these things to empower you and inspire you for yourself and your family and your children.
If your marriage feels uncomfortable, if it feels like you're wearing shoes that don't fit in their painful, you know the kind I mean, like stiletto heels that you've been wearing for 12 hours, that like your toes feel like they're like gonna fall off that kind of like, but you keep putting them on every day. That kind of pain, you know what I'm saying?
You know, then it is your responsibility to take the shoes off and start doing this work privately with dignity and in a sacred container because it will haunt you if you act without doing this work. And regret is a terrible thing. You don't want to look back and say, ah, if I'd only gotten the help I needed. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we are sharing that help because I feel like most people have no idea where to even start and you are brilliant. So thank you so much for joining.
We're going to have you back. Oh, yeah. This was such a great episode. We appreciate your time. Well, I commend both of you for creating this platform for moms. I wish I'd had this when I first became pregnant at the ripe old age of 28 with my first child scared to death, didn't know what the hell I was doing. And you know, I should 31 now. And it makes a difference when women band together and feel like they're not alone. All the mistakes that you make feel like lessons learned.
You're going to be okay. If you put the diaper on backwards and you don't know what you're doing, you know, in teenagers, oh my, oh my, the saying is this too shall pass. It will. But it's not easy to raise children. I commend all of you raising children in 2024 is a lot of work. Raising children in 1992 when my daughter was born was work, but it's more work now. And when I was born, we had no seatbelts, no helmets, no internet, no cell phones. And life was a little more innocent. I mean it.
I did not. Yeah, I mean, we were allowed to be children. And I am sad that children are not allowed to be children. They, you know, they're three and a half years old and they know everything they was doing it. Well, they think they do. But, you know, and it's so, I just want them to go back to those days of being innocent little children, you know, playing with them. We don't. I know. So I commend you.
It takes a warrior to raise a child now, to protect and nurture and honor that innocence of a child and still also not have them naive. So they're not harmed, right? And that's, you've got to kind of balance those two worlds. So I do believe it's one of the reasons divorce is still prevalent. So I commend you for creating this community and this platform for mothers. You need it and listen, moms. I'm not pro-divorce, but follow these two women. They will help you.
And if my chance, this is the feeling that you have, know that you're not alone. We're all in this together. Yeah. Yeah. Good for you, both. I'm proud of you. Really proud of you. Thank you. Yeah. Awesome. Well, that's another episode of the Mondech podcast with Paulette. Make sure you go to betterdivorceacademy.com. And the book is Better Divorce Blueprint. Better Divorce Blueprint. And then that also is the name of the workbook too. Correct. And it's available on Amazon's. Easy, easy, easy.
Easy, easy, easy. Yeah. Easy, easy, easy. Thank you so much. And originally when it came out, it started to get a lot of bad reviews from my ex-vants. I've been family. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'm okay with it. I love them all. And it's all good. But it's funny with that. Now, when you put yourself out there, you have to be willing to take a little bit of press. Yeah. Right? So we know that we're all done. Yeah. And that's okay.
When you put yourself out there for the world to help mankind and those that so desperately need you, there's all. There's always going to be a few people that criticize you. And that's okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yep. Paul. Probably i'm a suitable one.