Welcome back to The Better Divorce Podcast. I am your host, Paulette Rigo, and I'm here to guide you through the storm of divorce into much calmer waters. So, hold tight. Whether you're contemplating divorce in the thick of it or just rebuilding post-avours, I've got you covered. Each episode will tell you the truth. To tackle the tough topics, share resilient stories and offer practical, helpful advice to help you navigate with confidence wisely.
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Hey, welcome back everybody. It is Paulette from Better Divorce Blueprint, Better Divorce Academy, and yes, this is The Better Divorce Podcast. And today, like no other, I am interviewing an expert in their field that will help you get through the darkest times and create the brightest moments in your life. So, with no further ado, Molly Rubish is a health and wellness coach. She's also an author of a very special book. And we're going to talk a little bit about that. So, get your notebook.
She's also a blogger and a life coach, a grief advocate, and lots of expertise regarding blended families and helping parents thrive through difficult moments with loss. Molly uses her life experiences such as job loss, divorce, never heard of it. Not sure what that is. We'll talk about that. Blending families and childhood grief to support parents through some of life's most challenging times. So, welcome to the show Molly. Such a pleasure to have you. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
You are from the Midwest, I guess, is that what we call it sort of? And you have an interesting story. So, let's jump right in. Tell us why you decided to do this work with grief advocacy and life coaching. It's a story. Go ahead and share. Yeah. You know, it's life takes interesting turns and kind of walks you down a path that you're like, oh, okay, this is where I'm supposed to be.
In 2017, I went through a divorce from my husband and my kids were too young in elementary school. They were seven and 10 at the time. And it was really hard as your listeners and you know, divorce is something that none of us sign up for, but there I was faced with it. And through my journey, I was able to find love again and I got remarried.
And it was given the opportunity to blend with two beautiful little boys and not long after we were together, their mother died, their biological mother died. And so I was here a new mom of these boys and raising them through their childhood grief while we're blending our family. So, we continued to on that journey and then about two years ago, my father died. So it really turned my whole life in this year after year, we had adversity, we had grief, we had divorce, we had loss.
And I decided I'm going to leave corporate America and I was in sales and I was in some busy roles and I decided that I was going to take time to just grieve and be home and really love and support our family. And during that time, I decided to write a children's book and it's titled as heaven farther than the North Pole. And it's just a book about two kids on a quest to find heaven after their mom dies and we dedicated that to my stepson's biological mom April.
And that turned me into getting certified in coaching and really building this beautiful coaching program that supports and loves men and women through some of most life's most difficult times. And we don't sign up for any of these things, but with the right support and the right love and work on ourselves, we can thrive no matter what life throws at us.
Well, I do want to mention something here before we get into the book and that way of honoring and explaining loss to a young child, but did everyone notice that she got remarried. And I say this to many of my couples and or couples that I'm working with in mediation because naturally it will come up with the parenting plan about introducing a new romantic relationship to the other partner, I'm sorry to the other partner and to the children.
And at what point is that I don't know we want to call it appropriate, but agree upon with the parties, right, but everybody listen up, I got remarried Molly got remarried in 85% of divorces remarried within five years.
Now that does mean that 15% do not maybe that's a personal choice and I don't think all 85% of us you and I collectively, you know, have that conscious decision of I'm going to get remarried, I'm going to get remarried, I'm going to get remarried, I think I really was the furthest thing from my mind. I knew that I enjoyed companionship, but it was not on my list of things to do everybody I don't know about you Molly, but it's not uncommon and here we are living proof of it.
So don't say, oh, that'll never be me because we're going to I want to make you going to argue with you about that. Right, I agree. Now let's talk a little bit about this book, for sure, it's a beautiful title and I know that the child himself was himself asked you that question, right? What a beautiful thing is heaven farther than the North Pole. And what a beautiful way to honor and pay tribute to their mom after their loss.
And also a way to explain that because it's such a hard thing to explain to children, loss, divorce, grief, isn't an easy thing to explain as an adult. Right. It's so hard to process grief and pain. I have a client who today has made the decision to leave her marriage at this afternoon.
And most of the conversation we had before Molly and I record this was about feeling the feelings of that is being okay with the grief and the loss and acknowledging that because it's those people that I worry about more than not. Who have a stoic everything is great. I'm fine. I'm great. Everything's okay. I've been preparing for this and I'm going to be fine and you know and then I don't know this could be a problem.
No, I don't always say that. But you know, I'd rather them be, you know, mascara running down their face, journaling, crying, listening to Elton John sad songs say so much, you know, sleeping too much, eating mashed potatoes and meatloaf. And you know, just sort of wallowing in their emotions, not forever, but for a period of time because it really is such a healthy thing.
But now we have to explain to a child a mom and dad are divorcing or separating. That's kind of the gentler term for a while or not going to be living in the same household. And at what point is that too much information, but how do you then when you get asked that question, Molly, how do you explain it? Where is mom and where is heaven and kudos to you for writing that it must have been a difficult process, wasn't it?
Oh, absolutely, it's not anything that you're ever prepared for to have to sit bedside with your children and tell them that one of their parents has died. And so we just navigated and worked through it no different than when I had to tell my kids were getting a divorce. I really believe in holding space for the kids, allowing them no question is off the table because I was able to get my own mental health support. I then could then hold space for the kids.
No matter what their journey is on grief, we would always say to them, do you have any questions? Do you have anything that you want to ask me, it's okay. And how are you feeling? And I wanted them to know that they never had to protect us with their emotions. They never had to take care of me because I had people taking care of me.
And so I firmly believe that the more we can do to help ourselves, the more we can give our kids permission to be angry, like you said, the tears crying, the emotion, the frustration, the fear, whether it's actual in death or it's grieving a divorce or mom or dad moving out. Children need the space to be able to process all of it. And no emotion is off the table. You can be really mad at this situation. And that's okay.
Yeah. And I found also the children react in different ways, very different ways based on wealth number one, their age. Naturally, a six month old is not going to go no much, even 18 months might. What is it? I'm going to say three where they start to maybe four or they really comprehend and ages and everything, their personality, their demeanor, their extrovertness, introvertness overall will determine whether they express it immediately or they need to go to their room.
And process it for an hour a day a week, a month, a year, all children are a little different. And also are both parents present and are the parents still communicating with respect and kindness to one another, you know, if there's doors slamming and swearing and other inappropriate actions. Maybe the kids are going to be a little a few glad that's over with versus confusion with what you guys are still eating dinner together and going on vacations and sleeping in the same bed.
And you know, that's so confusing to a child when they see that mom and dad are still acting as if they're married, but yet they're telling us that they're going to separate or. So confusing. So as a professional here, how do you advise people to have that difficult conversation telling the children to decide to divorce?
Well, I believe like you said, a lot is going to vary based on the child and the child's needs. So I've had some people ask me like, I don't know what to say. What should I say? And we work more about them trusting themselves. You as a mother or you as a father know your children better than anybody. So I could give you a list of these things to say, but that may not work for your kids. I do believe in open and honest conversation. I believe in trying to not sugar code it too much.
Trying to give some clarity like we are getting a divorce that does mean that mom and dad will be living in a different home that but what that means for you is you will still have a bed in both your homes. You will still have your clothes. You will still see me any, you know, I will still be available. What's what concerns do you have? What makes you scared about this and help them process it when we try to sugar coat things either in in divorce or in grief and death.
It really muddies the water and kids can't get a clear understanding of the concept. So I think it's really fair to use language that they understand, but in transparency. Yeah, I always take the advice of Rosalind Sedaka who started the Child Centric Divorce Foundation and she always gives six tips or six things to say.
So not that I thought we'd have this conversation, but I was like to go with it. Number one is mom and dad will always be your mom and dad. Right. Does it not change the fact that I will always be your mom and I will always be your dad. Right. There's that state.
Even if there is new parties coming in down the road doesn't change the fact that mom and dad will always be your mom and dad. Number two is this is not your fault. You did not cause this and there's nothing that you you're not to blame for any of this. It had nothing to do with doing your homework or making your bed or you know having an argument or you know because of many children feel as if they could have fixed it.
If I'd only gotten straight A's and not yielded dad and help like whatever you know depending on their age because that's what teenagers do. So we just have to suck it up sometimes when we have teenagers. So there's a lot of teenagers know what I'm talking about. Number three mom and dad.
I said always mom and you will always be safe. Right. No matter why you you touched on that one. There's a sense of being safe because they want to know that they're still going to the same school that they still can hang out with the same friends that their bed will still be there. And that even if maybe they're now going to have two beds. There's that routine and safety and structure in their life. So that divorces about change not about blame.
There's no finger pointing accusations. That's the turkey part with parents sometimes. So it's all your fault mindset. There's no place in the children's conversation. And ultimately everything is going to be okay. They just need to know that everything is going to be okay. And that they're always the love to buy mom and dad. That their mom and dad will not have any less love for the for you as a child because of the divorce or separation.
When I learned those things it was so much so much. Now did we say any of those when we gave our children the bad news. No. But I didn't know Rosalind back then and I just wasn't a six part back then. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. So as most of us don't write when you're going through it. And now of course back then we didn't really have the internet. We had books and Lord knows I read them all.
But as you said so pointedly every child is different. You know they do they need to hear certain things. My children reacted very different ways. One ran up to bedroom slam the door. I'm cried. One said wait, does this going to affect me. And the other one said I understand you have to do as best for you. Oh, you know how's that for three different responses. So yeah.
Well, my daughter asked me, well, I have two lunch boxes. So it just shows the simplicity of their minds. And so like those points are beautiful. What is so important though you can you can make those statements when you're telling the kid. And the children that you're getting a divorce, but those have to then continue on during the divorce and post divorce and then the co parenting. So they may not remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel.
And making sure that they are never felt like they are a burden or that this is their fault or that parents are pitch you know, pitting each other. So those six things are amazing. But then they have to be played out in every single aspect. And I almost have that be like the pillar of how our divorce is going to happen and and run through that filter of like are we making sure that they are safe. They are loved that we are not it is not their fault. Yeah.
You can get a play it out. Yeah. And if you mess up because you're human and join the race and we all mistakes and join the club. You own it and you apologize and you explain what was said or done was inappropriate and you can even use the word wrong.
And you thought you did we're doing the right thing at the time, but you weren't and you learned and you own that role that you played in the demise of that conversation. So it is important that you are showing your children an example of, hey, I'm human too.
I don't know what I'm doing. I'm learning, but you need to know I adore you. I love you. And I'll always you know unconditionally be there for you to support you. And then it makes them like, hey, mom and dad are perfect, but you know, they love me and it makes a big difference as they grow into adults of their own. And never having the child have to choose who they love more. You know, reinforcing to them, you're allowed to have a relationship with your dad.
Yeah. That sounds amazing. Yes, you should go there, even though that's my Saturday going to the lake with your dad on a beautiful summer afternoon. I wouldn't want to miss that either. You never have to choose because it's at no fault of your own that you have two homes and that your parents are not under the same roof. So giving them that permission and that space and that ability to just never have to choose, even though we may be really hurt, that's where we then we get our own support.
We get our own coaching and therapy to heal that piece so we can allow our kids to love both parents equally. Yeah. It also is a difficult more difficult time, I think, for the parent than the child when they're with the other parent where they feel like, oh, I'm going to miss them so much. And yes, you are, but don't tell them that, you know, like make them feel bad about it because that's to make them feel like, well, I have to be with dad all the time because I don't want him to feel bad.
Oh, no, no, I have to be with mom all the time because I don't want her to make her sad. We're in actuality, we're the adults, we have to control our own emotions. We have to take ownership of our own, you know, own that and not put that feeling of melancholy, reminiscent nostalgia on a child. Yeah, you know, they don't even know what nostalgia is, you know, when you look at a photo album in fours, 14, they see it a very different way than when you look at it at 40 or 50 and beyond.
So you're right. So the point of parenting, you mentioned a few things or when we, you know, talked earlier about a shared calendar and being flexible on that calendar. And I want to bring that point up. I see so many, particularly as a mediator, not only am I a coach, but I'm also a mediator is there's this, uh,
a budding heads with the schedule, well, right? It's the schedules, the schedules, the schedule. And yes, we do need to have one or the courts won't approve it because they're not going to approve a non schedule. It's too open ended. They need to know that you have a plan. Where are the children going to put their head on the pillow at night? They need to understand that mom and dad, parent A and B, have a plan.
And yes, there will be deviations and modifications based on illness, travel, holidays, et cetera, et cetera. But it isn't so steadfast that you're now going to cause trouble by making those adjustments. Many people, why do you think so many people are so stubborn about the schedule? I mean, again, it goes back to the hurt. If if I'm resentful to my ex husband, I'm going to have a white knuckle grip on, no, this is my time.
You're going to come over on Saturday. This is when we shipped. No, you're not going to do that. If I work on healing my hurt and letting go of my anger, and I co-parent through the lens of the children. And I say, gosh, you know what? They should be able to share this time with their dad. God, it really hurts me because I want them and my ego says, I want them to love mommy and not love daddy more and I'm worried about that.
But if I am able to co-parent through the lens of the kids and say, this was really exciting. They got 100% on their test or landed the part in the school play. Call your dad, FaceTime them, tell him, you know, maybe if I'm even managing the schedule, like I have a calendar, and I'm putting the games in there and I'm putting all the school stuff in there. Yeah, you know, you could argue, I shouldn't have to keep doing this for them. You're doing it for your kids.
You're doing it so that your children have the opportunity to have both parents at the game. If you can let go of your hurt and you can sit near your ex during the basketball game. And so your other kids don't have to choose who they sit by. So let your differences down. Now, I know not in every scenario. Some are very high conflict. But when we work on ourselves and we can heal our hurt, we can show up as the parent.
This wife, not the angry partner, not the hurt individual, but as the parent for this child. And I would run through fire for them. So I can heal. So they don't ever have to choose who they love more. And then over time, there's years and years and years and decades of repair.
And so they can say, hey, mom, I'm going to do this with dad. Like once I get their license, I'm going to meet dad for dinner. Okay, that's fine. Come back. I love you. And it's like, they're comfortable to do that because they don't have to guard my heart.
It's a hard concept to grasp and not only to conceptualize, but to live the commitment to separating emotionally from being in the same household, you know, house A and house B where we go from the role of parenting where we do it together in the same house to co parenting. Hopefully we're doing that, even though it's under two separate rooms, we're doing it collectively together for the betterment of the children. Now, as you mentioned, not everybody can do that.
So we start rolling into the parallel parenting model where house A has their set of rules and house B has their set of rules and they're not going to be hugely different. It's bedtime at 7 30 and one house and nine at the other. I don't know that the child will be harmed because they have a different bedtime. It might be a little confusing to a seven year old that they get to eat Twinkies for dinner one house and they have to eat asparagus at the other.
But, you know, picking on food right now. It's an easy thing for kids to understand, but you know teenagers are just like, I'll eat what I want, but you know, it's difficult. But the really hard part is when it goes to counter parenting where one person deliberately counters does the opposite of the other parent just to hold control over them as a way of holding revenge, filling the addictive and angry and spiteful about being the one that either isn't cooperating is dragging it out.
Or just got them in this place to begin with. It's, it's a difficult mindset to go from, oh, we're doing this together to oh, we're not doing this together. It's not easy for some people. Yeah, and unfortunately, they're it's just like every kid is different, every marriage, every divorce, every situation is different. So it's hard to have these blanket statements.
But as your listeners, if you're the parent that is contra parenting and you're the one that's making this difficult, it is time to have some reflection and say why and it boils back to our own well being and our hurt and our ego. And we all have an ego that doesn't I don't mean that in a negative way. It's the anger that we're holding on to and it is only hurting the children. So as an effort to hurt your ex partner.
And you're causing a lot of turmoil that will play out for generations for like if your kids, you can't be in the same room. And when your kids get married where they have children. And you still can't be in the same room, then your kids are making different merit like walking down the aisle, maybe having an elotment or a destination wedding because their parents can't be in the same room.
Yeah, yeah. And so really is that how you want this to play out just because you're so upset at your ex or can we potentially work on healing some of the hurt so we can be better co-parents. Yeah, you bring up such a good point and it wasn't until I myself learned about the stages of breathing until I understood where each person is on the continuum much time.
And obviously if it's coaching, I'm working with one party and it's interesting how that one party finds me. But if I'm working with one party, I normally try to determine where they are. Are they still in shock and denial? You know, oh man, this isn't happening. What do you mean you want to divorce her? This is so hard. I don't want to be married to this person any longer. I'm just going to massage and bury my head in my work and take the kids to football and everything will be lovely.
That can go on for a long time. 70% of divorces initiated or filed by women and two years is the average amount of time that women contemplate divorce. Two years is the average. So some of you who may be listening, maybe woke up this morning and said, I am done. And some of you may have been thinking about this for years and years and years. There is an epidemic I like to call it staying together for the children. And I do see it right off.
You know, once that youngest child goes to college, they're like, hi, my name is and I need to work with you. And they've been suffering in silence or not for many, many years. And unfortunately, letting their health go or for many reasons, dealing with the stress and overwhelm. But then they go into the sadness and then negotiating and bargaining and the anger and all of those feelings to go through the stages. But it isn't until you get to acceptance that co-parenting is possible.
When both parties are not at acceptance, ownership, responsibility, it's very difficult to co-parent because you're still navigating the waters of your own personal grief. And like Molly said, you need someone else to help you manage you and heal you and help you take care of yourself so that you can help take care of others. So if you don't have the right therapists, BFF, support system, coach, call it what you will, it might be time for you to do some research.
This is a great way for you to be a better parent, a better co-parent, and a better news spouse. If you are considering that, it's very difficult to get into a new relationship that's healthy. If you're still hanging on to the mistakes of the past. Molly, thank you for this. So glad I can share. Thank you. With everyone, please, everyone, is heaven farther than the North Pole.
If you have a child and you are a grandchild and you want to explain to them things that are unexplainable, you need to get this book. And what's the best way for people to learn more about you, work with you, follow you? My website is my name. So www.mollyrubishareubish.com and I have a free downloadable on the website where you can get six steps to thriving career divorce. And you can follow me on Instagram and Facebook, same name, so easy to find.
She is easy, her brand is her, she's gorgeous, she's intelligent, lovely, and so generous in sharing her story and her pains and traumas and to bringing others to a place of healing. It is so essential that you commit to this work. It will be a better experience for you if you do it. So thank you, Molly. Thank you, everyone, and to having a better day, a better life and a better experience, I'll see you next time. Make it better. Thank you.
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