Hi.
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families.
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
This episode is airing in mid February of twenty twenty five, shortly before Valentine's Day for anyone who is into that as a holiday celebrating romance and things like that. So we are calling this episode keep it Hot. I guess this is a first for us, Sarah.
This is definitely a verse, not because we don't think this is an important topic, but because this is not a topic I think where either of us feel we want to share lots of personal things on the podcast, because of course these things don't just involve us, so we thought about how we could cover.
This without being personal.
So rest assured, relatives, if you're listening, You're not going to hear my own specific tips on this topic. However, what we did was we were able to reach out to listeners and we received a treasure trove of tips
and questions and interesting things. And so the way we're going to format this is by anonymously sharing others' perspectives and tips because I think we're all human, many of us share the same challenges or victories or whatever, and so this is a nice way to be able to share some of these ideas around a topic without violating anyone's privacy.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, because I mean the topics of romance and intimacy, like as I'm sure many people listening to this have friends who have wound up in new relationships as a result of and after a divorce or anything like that, and you're like, WHOA, the time they're spending together, they're feeling like all over each other, they're
like public displays of affection. You're like, you kind of don't necessarily have that same mindset with your spouse of decades, And it's like, well, could you recapture any of that without the bad other things happening in between? That would the necessitate starting something new So, yeah, we want everyone who is in a long term relationship to be able to keep it hot, and yeah, it probably won't be like when you were first dating, but it can still be pretty cool.
And I guess this would be our trigger warning that if there are young ears listening and you don't want them about things related to love life, then maybe this is one where you want to throw in some headphones.
All right, So first though, we want to talk about the fact that the struggle is real. We are not saying for either of us. However, there are many people who we know are listening to this who like, if you've got little kids, you might be completely touched out by the end of the day.
That's something we heard from a lot of listeners, right, Sarah.
Yeah, so one common thing, and I think one person remarked that this was like maybe more likely in someone that really likes a lot of quiet time or is introverted that they just felt sort of like overly needed in life, and therefore sometimes it was very challenging to get in any sort of mood because they just felt like they didn't have enough of that personal time and that can be tough.
There's also changes in hormone levels, which maybe Sarah, you can tell us. I mean, especially our listeners who are hitting their late thirties their forties, these are things that change, right.
Yeah, well, there's an interesting tip coming later on in the episode about perhaps managing some of those fluctuations throughout the cycle. Those fluctuations are very evolutionary driven.
And very real.
But then there's also fluctuations kind of over the decades, as you might be approaching perimenopause or headed into menopause, and the timing for that isn't standard.
As we've talked about before, some people have.
Those things at earlier ages than others, so that can be another layer of challenge that goes on top of.
This, there's also the matter of kids being afoot, so spending time together as.
A couple while the children are occupied or as sleep.
It's obviously challenging when kids are little if they're waking up, keeping you up at night or anything like that, or you need constant supervision for them, so it's hard to get time together as a couple. But then even if the children are older, it turns out that teenagers don't go to bed, so if you are relying on the kids be asleep to give you some quiet couple time
together that may not happen now. Of course, they may not wake up until noon on Saturday, so the two of you could have had eight hours together by the time that they're.
Getting out of bed on the weekend. But they are around.
And if some of our listeners have small houses or apartments, that is definitely a consideration.
Yeah, this is interesting because I feel like the people that rode in with teens definitely seem to note that this problem actually gets worse, not better as kids get older, partly because the teens are going to be more aware, partly because it could just be awkward, but also especially because of those timing sorts of issues, because if you were relying on late evenings, the kids are just naturally up later than many adults in those years, and that's
sort of a rhythm of biology as well. Many people say that then when the teens leave the house, you can have like a renaissance of source just every minute you want, But not everyone wants to wait that long, which I one hundred percent understand.
There.
You know, obviously, scheduling is an option for making sure that things are on the calendar, but there's a certain stigma around that I know that people have. There's also you know, sometimes in long term partnerships of resentments can build up too, so it's hard to feel loving if one party feels like they're getting the short end of the stick on things like chores or childcare or anything
like that. So if people are feeling like they are doing too much or more than their share, that can be an inhibitor as well.
So those are all the problems, well not all the problems, but those are just several of the challenges that our listeners sent in. And so we are going to segue into the positive side of this by sharing some really awesome and some interesting listener hips, some of them spicier than others.
Yeah, the first isn't spicy at all, which is to share the load.
So one of the.
Best things I think that women in the busy years can do is take one night for your own pursuits each week. So if that's that, you want to go out with friends one night a week, if you want to join a choir, if you want to go to a regular class at your gym, if you want to join the pickleball league, if you want to volunteer somewhere, but just that you make sure you have time for your own interests and something that is not work and is not caring for family members. It could be early
morning Sarah runs with a group. She doesn't like to stay out late. But making sure that you have time for yourself is actually going to make you more excited about life in general, and that can have spillover effects for being excited about other things.
That's so true that feeling of like independence or even just connecting with your sort of younger self, I think can kind of lead to healthier feelings along those lines.
Yeah, and then of course scheduling.
Yes, so people wrote in with this, so we have a lot of people who say they schedule time with their partners.
Correct Sarah, Yeah, somebody actually wrote that which gets scheduled gets done parentheses including sex.
So if it needs to be on the calendar, it needs to be on the calendar. And I'll note here that many women have sort of a longer runway, as it were, for getting into the mood, and so knowing that it will happen ahead of time can actually be a real positive because it gives you time to get excited, whereas if it's just like all of a sudden, hey, this is what's happening next. That might be a little bit more challenging for some people to make happen.
Totally makes sense, and I think on the of same lines of scheduling, it could be just a rotating regular routine, like everybody just expects that X night and X night or whatever those are a couple nights, and maybe that kind of is strategically figured out around your kids activity schedule or other things. But by having things kind of be expected, I think that would serve a similar purpose.
Yeah, So one couple, one listener who wrote in said that they do a day date on Saturday or Sunday twice a month and they have a sitter come from eight am to two pm. They go have a workout together, have a leisurely breakfast, and prioritize being intimate during this time because she says she actually has the energy and is in the mood unlike Thursday at nine pm, which
I think is really smart. And so then we asked a follow up question, which is that are the sitter and your kids hanging out right outside your apartment door, And the answer is no. They hire the sitter to go take the kids out to a local playplace in the morning, so they take it. You know, they get out in the morning after they guess they go to the gym first or whatever sitter can feed the kid's breakfast.
They go to the play place when it's open, they're there for a couple hours, come back at two o'clock, and everything has happened as it is supposed to happen.
I can think of a few variations on this theme that could work really well, because I will say, like, this particular scenario sounds like it would work with young kids who are up early. Like if you told my almost thirteen year old, oh, hey, we're gonna like have a sitter drag you out the door.
At eight am, I mean not happening, it would not go over well.
And it's funny because you know, when your kids are little, you don't realize that you kind of expect to be in that mode, but they do get to a point where like, that's just not happening. But sort of the older kid version of this could be that you arrange for kids to have simultaneous sleepovers, or if there's a family member or caregiver like a nanny that would take
the kids overnight that that would be a great time. Okay, they're hanging out, they're staying over there on Friday night, They're gonna do something fun in the morning, and then you know, you have the house to yourself.
So I would say there are.
Kind of like this would be the young version, and then the older kid versions might involve instead of starting that morning, kind of heading from the night before into the next morning.
If that makes sense.
Yeah, I know somebody who would hire a sitter to come take the kids, like out to a movie, so you could leave for the movie at like five o'clock. And the idea is that they were going to go out to dinner, but they would actually prioritize having some couple time before they went out to dinner because then it would happen, Whereas if you wait till later in the evening sometimes people get tired. But since they knew they had the house to themselves, it was all good.
Well let's take a quick break and then we're going to actually share a very related tip from our listener.
Well, we are back.
We are talking all things romance, intimacy, How to keep it hot if you have been with your partner for a very long time raising kids together. Sometimes this can make having a exciting love life a bit more challenging. But our listeners had all sorts of great ideas on how they could make it happen. So yes, this couple did not even bother hiring a center. They have a one sort of preteenaged child who can watch him or herself in the evening when they go out and do something.
But this listener writes that my favorite time for intimacy is right before date night.
The door to our.
Bedroom is locked because we are showering and getting ready. Our kid already has extra technology, so he's hanging out with that and the dog and on the device. So the sound of the shower, which I guess they just keep running for a very long time, masks anything in their home. She says she is usually sipping a glass of wine and is relaxed at this point, so that is one approach.
I love that, although all this shower talk, I'm like, maybe they could just involve the shower somehow, I don't know. Bring the wine in the bathroom, carring the.
Wine in.
Your bathroom door. You're like in your wine.
You're like, wait, this is somehow I would spill it all over the bathomot just.
Be no, I'm picturing candles. I'm picturing I don't know, but yeah, then you'd have two layers. If your bathroom is within your room, you could lock your bedroom door and your bath.
In the bathroom four knocks in there.
So it sounds like the preteen child probably doesn't have a whole lot of interest in like banging on his parents locked door. My guess I'm gonna be honest with you here. The kid knows what you're doing.
Like.
Maybe I don't.
Maybe know, it depends on how involved they are in their video games, because I don't know. My kids can be so oblivious with technology that it I don't think anything like that would cross their mind. But you might be right, and that's okay.
That's okay because yes, you are adults who are married.
And I like how that person emphasizes that they really just love kind of that experience prior and then kind of going out.
Afterwards, and then not having pressure afterwards.
Because afterwards, because everyone's tired, you know, especially if you have had the glass of wine at dinner, you may be falling asleep. Another listener talks about embracing opportunistic snippets of time. So they have a rule in their house that if both kids are out of the house that is couple times. So if they happen to both be home at five pm on Tuesday and someone needs a ride at five forty five, forget folding laundry or picking up because those things can happen when the kids are home.
I like the specificity of the time window here, and I wonder, like what the minimum that.
Must have just like happened yesterday before this person rode in, They're like, well, we swim practice was over at five forty five.
Or like if it was twenty three minutes, would they do? I mean, like, where's the where's the.
Where's the dividing line? Yes, like how long of a window or how short? I think it's short of a window? Like, yes, that's true, it's uh.
But no, that's I mean, that's great.
And I love that they just make it a rule, so it's a given and everyone kind of knows what to expect, and it is so true, like there are times that you'll spend precious kid out of the house time doing things that you could absolutely do when the kids in the house. And I remember when the kids were really little I thought about that, not specific to this activity, but even just like things like when would you do your work out? When did you do your housework?
Like you want to do the the things you don't want the kid to interrupt, do that when they're gone, Like, don't ever spend that time when the kids are gone doing things that it doesn't matter if they're there.
If that makes sense.
Yeah, and then into the sound of like and plus kids should see that housework is happening, that it's not you know, being done by like the tooth fairy or something.
True, and they don't need to see other things. So yeah, makes sense. There we go.
So another listener wrote in about an argument she had had with her partner about timing, especially in terms of her hormonal cycle. So, Sarah, maybe you can talk through that one.
Yes, this one was fascinating to me, So I'm going to share it in a little bit more detail. So, she writes, in order to kind of solve some conflicts they were happening, she gave her husband a cheat sheet as to the phases of her cycle in a text message after this argument that was precipitated by a request for some amorous time that was poorly timed with her cycle. It was like right before her period, and she was
in no mood. So she didn't want to talk about it in really clinical terms because she felt like that might be a little bit of a turn off.
I mean for some it wouldn't, but maybe for them it would.
So she said, we're gonna call phase one cycle days one through seven, so your period, and right after phase two cycle days eight through eighteen, so kind of like post period to ovulation. Phase three cycle days nineteen to your next period, So that's like your luteal phase.
That's a cheat sheet here.
So phase one, she's like, I need advanced warning, so it might work out, but you got to kind of like see the end of phase one into phase two aka, in my opinion, the good part.
Of the month.
Feel free to surprise me, flirt, or try something new. Phase three I need warning. I will probably say, yeah, but please don't try to be spontaneous and manage your expectations as to how thrilling it might be. And she writes it has cleared up so much confusion about why things might change from week to week and that it had absolutely nothing to do with our relationship. How attracted I am to him as my partner, or how important intimacy is to me and as somebody who has natural cycles.
And I didn't always because when you're on the pill, these things are not going to apply. Or even like if you have certain types of IUDs or like anouva ring or your menopausal like there's these wouldn't always apply. But I one hundred percent see where this person came up with these phases. They make a lot of sense, and I think it's brilliant and very open without being like overly graphics.
So yeah, good job, listener.
Yeah no, well, I mean it's good to know, and if one has a male partner, you shouldn't assume that this person would understand that on their own, so it's a good to bring them in to the experience with you.
We had a.
Lot of people mention that working from home opens up new vistas in terms of time that is available, because presumably your kids are either at school or at daycare. If the two of you have days that you both work from home, this can be an option. So one listener writes in we have a seven year old and a four year old who go to bed at the same time as we do, and sometimes they're in the room with them, which I totally get. Our five year old seems to keep coming in for mommy and daddy's
room as well. We've had the best luck fitting in intimacy during the daytime on Fridays, when we both tend to work from home. So if that is a thing in your household, if both partners work from home on Fridays, you might even try.
To block out a longer lunch.
You could eat lunch together, have some time together, make sure that nobody has a zoom immediately afterwards, you know, at.
Taste if it's a screen screen off zoom, screen off, a screen off zoom.
But that can be a great option.
Or if you both end earlier on Fridays, like your daycare is open till five thirty on Fridays and you tend not to have many meetings after like three o'clock on Fridays, that's a great option, and you can start the weekend off together before you go and pick up your kids, and you'll probably enjoy the working from home experience even more.
Love it.
We're going to take a quick break and then get into some I don't know, biologic ideas.
Well.
We are back we are talking ways to keep it hot. If you have been with your partner for many years raising kids together, times it can be more challenging to find time, energy and be in the mood for intimacy. But we want everyone to have an exciting and wonderful
love life. So one listener actually wrote in that her husband getting a vasectomy had been a huge boost in the quality of their love life because she was no longer worried about getting pregnant, so she was like much more excited for things to happen.
Totally get it.
We will throw that one out there as an option, And if any men are on the fence about this, that might be something that could push you over into making that decision that it might drastically improve things in your household.
All right, then, we have some listeners who wrote in about sort of adjacent ways of making sure this part of your relationship can thrive. And one person I will quote this. This person writes, couples therapy ain't no shame here. If you feel you're in a rut or slump, reconnecting emotionally comes before physical connection. Actually for women, she writes, this is the best investment we have made in our marriage.
Yeah, that could be so smart. And you know, it's not just for people who are on the verge of divorce. People have that idea sometimes, but it can be about making a great marriage awesome. So consider that as a way to you know, just as you might have a coach to take your running game up a bit, or you know, like your mentor at work helping you achieve the next level, sometimes couple's therapy can be that for
people's marriages. Yes, another idea this person suggested is that it's hard, but try to separate logistics.
Talk from your date time and your time to connect.
So the problem is, of course, if you guys haven't had any time together, and all of a sudden, you have time together and it's like, okay, we're getting ready for mommy daddy time, and we need to discuss who's picking up who from swim practice, it's a maybe a bit of a mood killer for some, not everyone, but
for some. And so as much as possible, trying to have a regular time where you talk about logistics means that your intimate couple time is not taken up with talk of who's on carpool duty on Tuesday and do we need a sitter for Thursday evening and so forth.
Yes, totally.
I feel like it's not the best mood booster to be figuring out pick up, especially if those things sometimes spawn some little mini conflicts.
That's like the last thing you want. It's no scenarios.
I said it last week.
Yes, Another tip was to pay attention to what excites you, and that might not be the most obvious thing. Maybe it is a sexy TV show, movie, or book or something specifically designed.
For this purpose.
Now, if sort of traditional sources are not appealing to you, there are some products designed particularly towards women, such as any Dipsy Stories is a company that makes kind of spicy audiobooks geared to women. But maybe it's just like a regular like HBO TV show that gets you both in the mood together. I mean, you might as well take advantage of these opportunities as they arise, and you never know what could end up being really kind of a fun start to your night.
Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lot more things in that market that have been designed by women at this point, and that is totally new. Was not something that there was much of a market for before. So definitely favail yourself of anything of that if you think it will
make your life a little bit more exciting. We would also suggest, and people wrote in about taking care of yourself, so partly wanting to be intimated, it is about having a positive self image and that doesn't mean looking like a model or anything like that, but it means being comfortable in your own skin, comfortable with your.
Life, happy with your life.
So, as we talked about earlier, having a night for your own interests is huge, but it could be other things too.
I mean, Sarah, I don't know.
Cute pajamas, I mean for real though, cute pajamas, cute bedtime, outfit, lingerie, like something that just makes you feel more confident might then translate to kind of wanting to explore things more or just like have more excitement with a couple time.
I don't know.
I guess the flip side is more what resonates with me, which is like, if you're feeling really like not well taken care of and you feel like you're wearing gross clothes or you need to shower or something.
It generally is not the best.
So putting that, turning that on its edge, investing in yourself a little bit can actually be a very compared to therapy, a very budget friendly way of helping the relationship.
Yeah, although your male partner may not have cared if you have showered or brushed your hair or put on makeup anything else like that.
But if it helps you, sure go for it.
We also say that taking care of yourself physically in terms of getting physical activity is maybe an undersung aspect of this, because that's part of feeling comfortable in your own skin too. And again not in any way like people need to be skinny or look like models or anything like that.
That has nothing to do with it whatsoever.
It's more that having like how do I describe it, Just feeling like you are.
Embodied, enjoying the way your body works, or the way your body works, that movement feels good, or like the feeling of getting stronger.
No, I get what you're saying.
Yeah, And that could also give people a positive self image, like and you see your body less as something to look at and more as a functional object, like my body does cool things.
And if your body does cool things in the gym, your body probably does.
Cool things elsewhere too, So just something to think about there, and of course, if your partner is going off to the gym and taking care of himself in that way, it probably will make life better for both of you as well. So that would be our rule for increasing intimacy here is that if either partner wants to go to the gym, probably that is a good thing.
You should cover for each other equally but enthusiastically.
And benefit will be longer, healthier lives in every.
Way, in every single way. All right, moving on to the question. So this is kind of an interesting one. The listener said, are you aware of any podcasts that are similar to yours and are hosted by the male equivalents of you?
Guys?
So this is an interesting question, and it's also a funny question juxtaposed with this episode, because I'm like, oh, what would the male equivalent of this episode be?
Like, I kind of want to hear it.
Anyway, I don't have great answers because I think I mostly listen to podcasts with women co hosts because we gravitate towards hosts that are like a little bit like us or in the next phase of life than us, And that's just I think natural.
However, lately, I have.
Been into Mark Manson's podcast. He's the author of I'm not going to use the curse word because this is a clean podcast, but the subtle art of not Leap.
And he wrote that blockbuster book with a.
Not my favorite title a long time ago, and so I didn't like pick his podcast because I love that concept or that book, but someone else recommended it to me, and I'm like, no, I actually really like his tone. His vibe is much softer than you might expect with that book title. He has a conversational co host, so to me, of all the like guy podcasts on my feed, I think that would be the one closest.
But it's still not the same.
It's not quite the same.
Yeah, I was going to throw out Joel and Matt of How to Money, which again it's not the same topics. They do three episodes a week on personal finance, so if you're not into money, that might get old a little soon. But they are dads who are maybe a couple years younger than us, but not by much. One of them has three kids, one of them has four.
It just winds up being a lot of their life, right, It's like dealing with bringing kid to this and doing this with three kids on the weekend while one off other is off doing this.
You know.
So it has a very similar vibe in that sense of two sort of young working fathers and all that they wind up juggling. So if people are interested in that, I'd suggest listening to them.
They also have similar to us, like an interesting They have a good mix of like types of episodes and different segments, and sometimes they do interviews and sometimes they don't, and they have a very natural banter. So I think you're right, they're a good equivalency.
Yeah, I want to know.
I want to know if you listen to a lot of podcasts or maybe like if you have a male partner that listens to a bunch of podcasts, can you ask because I kind of want to I want more answers to this question.
Who are the male Laura and Sarah there we want to know? All right, Sarah, I have a different question for you. Now, do you guys do Valentine's Day?
In your family?
We never really like have a special date night, so I mean, sadly for the keep it hot side of things, it's not like a red letter day in that way for us because usually we're both working.
But I think we've talked about it.
Like we do sling for the family, we always do a Valentine's Day treasure hunt, which is like a big deal for the kids. We give them clues, they run around the house they have to find candy. There's always multiple boxes of candy sent to me and also purchased by my husband. Sometimes there have been flowers on occasion, not always. So, Yeah, I would say we celebrate Valentine's Day, but it's not. It's more of a family love fest than a couple's love fest for us, the couples.
One would be more like our anniversary.
Yeah, so our anniversary of meeting is actually February fifteen.
Ah, it's both, it's both, but the day.
After Valentine's Day, interestingly enough, so we do try to do something for that to celebrate it. But then it's often not on the fourteenth that we're going out. It would be the fifteenth, which is actually kind of good because then you're not quite as competing with everyone for dinner reservations at nice restaurants, which you know, my husband had a funny story about this once and he was in I don't know, he wasn't even thinking about it.
Because like February fourteen was like a Tuesday one year. This was before we met, and he was just working, like he was in some city working, and so he had to eat dinner. So he just goes out to a restaurant like the next to his hotel, and he's like, wait, why.
Is everyone here?
And like these flowers on the table and like couples everywhere. He's sitting there by himself on Valentine's Day at this nice restaurant.
So this is year, this is before me.
Okay, I was like, was he like, oh no, I got to text Laura.
That's too funny. Are going on?
Anniversary is Labor Day, which is actually not good because there's like not a lot of restaurants even open on the boom.
Yeah that's okay.
Yeah, well so yeah.
We go ahead that I tend to buy little things for the kids, like little presents, but I think I'm going to try and be a little bit more proactive about it this year. I often there's sort of just going to the drug store and getting like a small stuffed animal or a thing of candy, but I might actually try to choose something they would find more exciting and useful.
Maybe this year. I don't know. Cool.
I guess I'm still a little We're just coming after Christmas.
It's a nice I mean, I know people say it's a Hallmark holiday or whatever, but like, I don't know, it's a love celebration.
I kind of I liked it. We're the Halloween.
Well, February has a lot of because that's also President's Day weekend. This year is Valentine's Day weekend, so you can celebrate President's Day and Valentine's Day. Maybe if you celebrate to Groundhog Day earlier in the month, all sorts of festival festivals. Exactly, exactly, all right, Love of the week, Sarah, what do you have this week?
Well, I decided to go with the theme. I'm going with sex Lives of College Girls. Love that show in the middle of watching season three. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Well, I'm going to go with live sports.
So longtime listeners know that one of my goals for the year for twenty twenty five was to go to three live professional sports events, go to the Sixers, the Eagles, and the Phillies. Thanks to the Eagles being in the playoffs, we have actually done two out of three already with the Sixers are in their season right now, and the Eagles season got extended for a ways that will all be over by now when this airs. But this is kind of fun to do as a date night to
go to a professional sport event. If you are in a big city, because it's a new experience, you probably don't go to that many of them. It's different from going out to dinner, you know, So looking to change things up a little bit, I would recommend that as a date night. And if you're into sports, if you have a male partner who happens to like sports, that might be something that they might be even more excited about doing than a lot of other.
Date night possibilities. So yeah, throw that out there as an idea.
Love it, love it all?
Right? Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking about how to keep it hot as we come into Valentine's Day this week. We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together.
Thanks for listening.
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can.
Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts.
Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.