Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families.
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This episode is airing in early September of twenty twenty four. Probably most of our listeners sending kids back to school either last month or this week, so we're doing some
school related content here. I am going to be interviewing Alice Chen, who is the owner of Bright Story Admissions Insulting, So it's going to be talking a little bit about the college admissions process, things that people with children in middle school or high school might want to think about, but not just the college admissions process, because as we've talked about on this podcast many times, it seems to
swallow up senior year for many kids. And that's a shame because it's also a time of life when kids are learning to be adults, and there's a lot that
goes into that. And so Alice talks about all the life skills that you can think about the college admissions process as developing, and to some degree is the kids get those life skills that can be even more important in terms of how they talk about themselves, how they think about their strengths, how they learn to present themselves, how they learn to manage a big project with multiple parts, to manage their time, all of those very very important things. So, Sarah,
do you remember applying to college. It's been a long time for both of us now I do.
I mean the applications mostly on paper, but I would type my essays like using like word or word perfect or whatever we were.
Using back then.
My dad helped me edit them, but definitely didn't write any of them. And one random vision that came into my head when we're talking about college admissions is, you know you'd get the paper, not the acceptances or rejections, but like the big books in the mail that would like show like the glossy brochures. Okay, so I cut the ones I had applied to out and I put
them all up on my cabinet wall. I taped them all up, and there were like seven of them, and then like, I got rejected from two of them, so I took those down, but I was just so proud of having the five open that I had gotten to look at Like it was like, oh, I get to choose from all these flavors of ice cream or something like that, and so yeah, that's my it's my college application process in a nutshell. I did not apply early decision anywhere.
Yeah, I think that was starting to be a thing, but it wasn't quite as big a thing when we were applying. Certainly one difference. I mean, you applied to seven schools and that was probably seen as a normal number or even on the high side, and kids these days definitely apply to a dozen or sometimes even more.
That it's been facilitated by it being online and a lot of this being a college app that a lot of the common app a lot of the colleges except the common app sometimes with a little bit of supplementation. But it certainly has become a little bit more doable to apply to a lot of places. I think I actually wrote one or two of my essays or at least the application stuff on a typewriter, Like I put the form into a typewriter and then wrote with the typewriter.
I think I did the same thing.
Yeah, I had a typewriter. I liked playing with it. And of course we got our decisions by mail torture.
Torture, I mean, and you didn't know when it was coming, like you know, at least I think with a lot of them. Right, it's like you know exactly when it's going to come, and you can refresh your email and you can be like, Okay, I'm ready for this moment, I'm in the right place.
Whatever.
No, it was like roulette every day at the mailbox. So like I don't want to go through that again, and I'm glad my kids.
Won't have to.
Yeah, no, I remember I had been at a conference. I went to a residential high school, so I had a little mailbox for me, like a dorm mailbox. And it couldn't take big stuff in it, so if you ever had a package or a big envelope, they'd put a little slip of paper. And so I had been at a conference with a group and we'd you know, contain the van back and I walk in It's early April, and I don't see anything in my mailbox. I'm like,
what what? And then I open it and there's little slips in there, so I was like, ah, okay, that sounds good. So then you know, take it up to the counter to get envelopes and hand the slips, and of course the person behind the counter is like, so super fun. It was fun. It was a good time. But yeah, I mean, it's so much has changed with it. It's fascinating to go through this as the parental version of it. But we definitely for our listeners who are in this stage of life to turn down the pressure
a little bit. I think some of this is self imposed. There are a lot of wonderful schools out there who accept a reasonably high proportion of the young people who apply, And so your kid is going to wind up somewhere amazing and wherever they go, that is not the sole thing that determines their lives, Whereas the relationship you have with your kid is a huge part of your experience and their experience of their last few years before they are launched out into the world. So hoping that people
could keep that in mind, well, we're about to. I guess we'll do the interview portion now with Alice Chen of Bright Story Admissions Consulting. So Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Alice Chen to the program. Alice, can you introduce yourself to our listeners?
Sure?
Well, first, I just want to say I'm a huge fan of the podcast. I've been listening for years and I've read so many of your books, So thank you for having me. Yes, so again, my name is Alice Chen. I'm based in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm a Stanford grad. I'm a professional journalist, and I run a boutique college consulting firm called Bright Story. We specialize in
helping high performing teams get into top schools. But something that's really unique about my practice is in recent years, I've shifted away from just purely getting kids into college, but focusing more on like the long game, so preparing students for life. And I use the college application process and prep process as a way to teach life skills.
Because there are a lot of life skills involved in a big project like this, right.
Absolutely, yeah.
I think that is one mistake families make when they come to me is they often think it's just academics will get you in.
But the landscape has.
Changed so much, especially in recent years, that I think you really need something to stand out. And a lot of times I find that when my students are doing this standout thing, they're gaining a lot of life skills in the process, so it's fun.
Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about how college admissions has changed over the past few decades. I know a lot of our listeners, whether they have kids in that age range of not of you know, high school aged kids, they probably went through the process themselves, but it may have been at least ten years ago, probably more like fifteen, twenty or a little more. What has changed over the past two decades or so in the college admissions landscape.
Yeah, well, I think it's just gotten a lot more competitive. Like when I applied to college a long time ago, it was maybe twelve percent admit rate to a place like Stanford, and now it's less than four percent. And I would say it's a combination of things. There are more people in America, there are more people globally, so
there's just more competition. And after COVID happened and a lot of schools went test optional, Like the application rates shot up because I think so many more people are applying just to see if they have a shot to get in.
And the common app has changed this too, I mean over the past few decades. If you want to think back even further in sort of the historical college admissions landscape, Yes.
For sure, I think it's just easier to apply to these schools A lot of times, a lot of the essays replicate, so you're not writing that many more essays for extra schools.
And so how many colleges do people generally apply to these days?
Oh my goodness.
I often recommend applying to maybe twelve schools and getting arranged within those schools. And but I've seen some of my top students who have gotten like great results, they might be applying to like fifteen or twenty. Like when they're done with me, I see that they apply to a bunch more, and I'm like, oh, okay.
And I think.
Initially i'd be like, you should really focus on the number of schools you apply and produce excellent work. But I have seen that when they apply to more, they are getting more admissions.
Interesting, so families come to you, when are they normally coming to in the whole process in terms of how old the kids are when in the high school journey. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that.
Yeah, a lot of families tend to come to me junior year. That's like a very prime time as they're like gearing up. But I have had some people approach me as young as sixth grade and want to get like an intro call in. And typically for those families, I don't actually take them because I really value mental health and I want kids to have a childhood and just experience their middle school years without a ton of pressure. So typically I do accept students going into freshman year.
All right, but junior year isn't too late. If somebody's like, well, I hadn't even thought about college until junior year, Now you're not doomed at that point.
No, I mean I have people. I'm sure I'll get inquiries this fall. Yeah, so at that point, it's more like packaging and shaping. But if you come earlier, then you can really think about like life goals and more like big picture strategy. Yeah.
So when I mean, we're talking about teenagers here, and I'm not sure how many of them have a big picture strategy when you are true sixteen seventeen years old, I mean, what does that initial conversation even look like?
Then it depends on the student. You'd be surprised. I would say that for some reason, I do attract a lot of like high performing students, and so a lot of times they come in with a clear direction of what they want. Sometimes with younger students, they're like all over the place, and I'm totally.
Cool with that too.
I might send them away with like a personality assessment or build brainstorm dream jobs, and I'll say, hey, this is good practice for finding a job in the future or a field. Is like go google like interesting people in your field and just send them a cold email, ask them if you can talk to them for ten or fifteen minutes and ask some questions about their field.
So it really depends on the student.
But I would say that typically the student that comes to me is more like motivated and that type of thing.
But do kids need to know what they're going to be doing as they're going into the college admissions process? I guess what I'm trying to ask here is I feel like so much of this has gotten like you have to know what your path is in life, and you can't just be a good student who's done well at two different activities that you like. That that's not well packaged. I guess if that's what makes sense.
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think it really depends on the types of school.
You're looking at.
So if you're looking at like the tippy top, I do think that students need like a very cohesive narrative. With that being said, a lot of times to take the pressure off, I'm like, Okay, you can probably change majors at any time in college, so let's just go with what your current interests are. You don't have to have like the next fifty years planned out, but what are you interested in today? And so with those type of students, that's typically.
What I do.
And then again, like, if you're not going for as competitive of a school, I think you could be a little bit broader. But for the top schools, you need like a super strong narrative.
Let's talk about that. What does a narrative mean when we're talking about sixteen seventeen year old children.
I know, I know it's and sometimes I feel bad about saying stuff like this because it's gotten so much more competitive than when I went to school. But I think a narrative is like a general area of interest.
A lot of times they have had like an extracurricular passion project, and some of them come in with like crazy stuff that they've done, and I'm like, you know, you don't even need college at this point, like you've created a viable product, a viable app or something like And I hope to help take the pressure off of them. But basically it's telling their story, like why they did
what they did. Maybe there's a personal tie in how they want to contribute to the world, how they want to impact the world, And sometimes what they do in college remains the same, and sometimes they go in a completely different direction. But I think it's just like, at that point in time, can you create like a cohesive narrative. And it's a good skill to have, you know, like any time you're applying for a job, you're going to
need it and maybe you change careers. But I think it comes through like self reflection and knowing what you like at that point.
In time, because the idea of the narrative is, let's say a child has done a lot with soccer, and then you would construct other things to support that interest, showing the interest in that, like that you went deep into it, or like doing a vol into your project associated with so not just playing soccer. It's that you helped at a soccer camp in the summer, right, Or maybe you could give a few examples for people.
Right.
Ah, that's a great question.
This is tough because I don't want to talk about any current students that I'm working with. But for example, I have a student in recent years who was interested in research and science, and so she actually during the pandemic, her parents were both working big busy jobs and she was home alone and she actually created a lab in her garage.
She invented a new biofuel.
So she took at home material she would buy them on eBay and things like that, and she read through like maybe dozens or hundreds of journal articles to come up with a protocol of how to create a biofuel.
And she went out and she got a bunch.
Of different specimens, different types of plants, and like experimented to see which one would be the most efficient. She found like an invasive species, and it's like ten times more efficient than corn as a starter crop. It doesn't need water and all this stuff. So her narrative would be actually the most impressive part of this is that she did it all alone, and then she wants science
firm and things like that. But typically students who do these type of big research projects, they will have a mentor they will have a lot of funding from their schools and things like that. But I think the most important part of her narrative was that she did it on her own. And then actually in working with her, I was like, you don't need these top schools. You can start a company, right, And that puts you in a very different position when you think colleges are going
to want me rather than I need the college. And so I think it helped her develop a lot of confidence in knowing what her strengths were. So not every student is like that, but it's like that type of cohesive story, or like a parent had cancer and I want to be a cancer researcher. Things like that. Like the environment, it just growing up with wildfires. Now I've
developed these apps to like help predict wildfires. So it's stuff like that a personal tie in that hits like a big world problem ideally, and then what you've taken to do that. I know it sounds very intense, and there is this population of students who are doing that. My personal my own children are not doing that, but I know what people do and what it takes to get in.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm not doing any biofuels in my basement, nor are any of my kids, So.
I know I don't think we ever will be.
But you know, that's why I'm focused on life skills though, right because I know for my own kids, do you want that stress and that pressure, like you don't need a top school?
Like what can I do to teach them today to prepare?
All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and then we'll be back talking more about college and life skills in general. Well, I am back with Alice Chen, who helps teenagers with college admissions but also building life skills through the process of applying to college, figuring out who they are, what might interest them, things
like that. We've been talking about building a narrative, which is just you know, I think about this when people sometimes ask me, well, why did you write this book? And I can't just be like, because I'm a writer and I needed to write a book. I mean, it's like you have to come up with some compelling origin story. And so I imagine that that is a life skill that you are teaching children as well.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean I always want them to have a personal tie in if possible, and once they actually create this narrative with me, if you will, like it's something that they can keep using and adapting, like when they apply to grass school jobs, fellowships, things like that. And so we go through the process and I actually approach it like I would a journalist. So I asked them a ton of questions, like if I were reporting the story.
What would I want to know?
And so I asked them a ton of questions and then I'm like, oh, put that in, Oh put that in, Like, oh, you're funny. You should write with a funny voice, like bring your personality out and things like that.
Awesome. So with that, I mean, when you see families approaching the college process or they're in it somewhere, what are the biggest mistakes that they wind up making.
Yeah, I mean I think again, a lot of families focus too much on academics. And if you're going for I would say top one hundred schools, Yes, grades and test scores are a big thing, but.
I think they don't think about life skills.
They don't think about extracurriculars and passion projects enough, and they focus too much just on academics.
Okay, but with that, I mean, how should kids be focusing their time then? I mean, I guess the good grades is kind of like maybe the table stakes, right, But do you do like one or two things? Should you do a couple different things? I mean, what would you recommend?
Yeah, I would recommend, you know, definitely you need the academics, and then on top of that, maybe two or three things max and go deep. I mean maybe that's like per year though, right, because you have four years, and so I would also say definitely, I encourage my students to have like one passion project in their high school career, to just play around with, explore, create something on their own, that type of thing.
Yeah, and one of them you mentioned just now, the like idea of applying to top one hundred schools, and then you know, there's obviously more than one hundred schools in the university. I'm guessing that a lot of people haven't even heard of some number of the top one hundred schools. I mean, the schools we've heard of are either the most competitive ones out there or are ones that have a really big football team. Right, that's kind
of the extent of people's college knowledge. How should families go about finding there are schools that might have a more reasonable admissions rate but still be very good schools that do great things with their kids, but that you haven't heard of because they're not an IVY league and they don't win the College Bowl championship.
Yeah, there are definitely various resources, Like oftentimes I'm like chat GPT as your friend, enter it in with all of your parameters and your statistics and see what comes out. There are various search engines where you can again enter
in geography, size and things like that. And then one book that I really enjoyed was this book called Colleges That Change Lives And there's actually a website associated with that, but basically it was written by a journalist and he really evaluated colleges that give students a good learning experience, like small class sizes, access to professors, high student satisfaction, and he narrowed it down to primarily small liberal arts schools.
And it's interesting because everybody wants to go for that big state school or that prestigious Ivy League school, which which is like seventy five hundred people for undergrad and you're going to be top by people just a few years older than you. As ta's you're not going to get access to small group classes with a professor. And so that's why I would highly encourage people to look at the smaller liberal arts schools.
Yeah, you know, it's funny that you just said, like put in your parameters in chat GPT Again, if I'm seventeen years old, how do I even know what my parameters are? Like, how would you go about thinking about this? I mean, you know, we're like obviously my listeners know we have a seventeen year old and we're going through this. But it's like, okay, people like, well, what size city do you want to be at? It's like, I don't know.
I mean maybe not two hundred people, but I don't have many parameters beyond that.
I don't know, right, I think parameters would be like where in the country do you want to be?
What industry are you interested in?
Later, like, if my students are interested in film, I'll say okay, or LA and New York. If you want to do tech, maybe do Bay Area that type of thing, because I do think that where you go to school, oftentimes people end up there, alumni networks are stronger, etc. So I would say geography is something knowing whether you want to be in a big city or not or in a more rural area.
The size of the school.
So if it's like super large, I would say that there are a lot of resources and a lot of diversity in terms of classes and professors, but you might not get as much contact with people, and you'll have to be more of like a self starter, Whereas if you go to a super small liberal arts school, you'll have a lot of contact with your classmates, the social
fabric might be stronger. So if you're not a super self starter, I would probably encourage kids to go to a smaller place where they would be seen and have more support.
So it's stuff like.
That, Yeah, And then again like areas of interest in terms of majors and things like that, so ensuring that the major exists that is strong, that their resources dedicated to it, and things like that.
Yeah. I was talking with one family recently that you know, mentioned one parameter for them was if the child was going to want mom and dad to come to things, then they needed to choose a school that was kind of within like let's say a four hour driving distance, because otherwise it was going to be somewhat harder to just get there for the weekend to go to the kids' theater performance or go to a intermural soccer game that
they were having that was important to them. So that was another criteria that might wind up being important to people too.
Yeah, you're totally right about that.
And one thing, since this is best of both worlds and we think about family and life beyond college, I think just even thinking of where your family of origin is and whether you want to be closer to them in the long run, because once you have kids, you know, it's great to have family nearby.
So actually I did grad school and Chicago.
And the thing that surprised me was like almost everyone that I knew like grew up in Illinois.
They never left for college.
They were there and they were friends with people for decades, Whereas in the Bay Area, I feel like people are very transient. They move here for jobs and things like that. But I definitely agree that there is value to staying close to home if you will, and having that family support. I think America is very transient and it's nice to have that support.
Absolutely. Talking a little bit more about the actual parts of college admission, the SAT changed this year. I mean during COVID we had the whole thing with some places being test optional. I think some places have gone back and forth on that now, but then we also had the rollout of the digital SAT this year. I wonder what you're telling your kids that you're working with about tests these days, and how they should prepare for them, how important they might be, anything like that.
Yeah, for the types of kids I get, and for the types of schools they want, I always recommend that they take the test. Like for a lot of schools, especially at these more challenging schools, they just want to see that you have that score to make sure that you can handle the work. And that's why a lot of the schools like MIT have brought the test back, because it puts you at a disadvantage to apply without
a test. They're taking more of a risk on you because they don't want to admit you and have you not do well. And so if you're aiming for a competitive school, I would say, take it, and whether you want to submit is another story, but typically a role of thumb for that is like, if you're at the average score above, I do recommend submitting, or maybe with if you're like within strikingness is like ten twenty thirty
points below. But again, like for the caliber of schools, you do need to take that test too well, and you do need to prepare, whether that's on your own, hiring somebody taking test prep but take it seriously.
Yeah, so just making sure that whatever score you're reporting is with in the range for what that schools. Although I guess as places aren't reported, as kids aren't reporting it, the average is going to change because it's like, if you're under a fifteen hundred, why would anyone report it then or something. I don't know, it's exactly.
Yeah, it is.
One of the downfall of test optional is it's actually made it harder because the scores are going up, and so it's sad I feel for kids these days to get in just because it's a very different landscape.
Yeah, very much. Well, so let's talk about what life skills are though that you said, like, because it is so competitive and who knows if anyone's going to get into the top twelve schools or whatever they are. It's somewhat of a lottery for some of it, as it is for sure, But what skills can you learn through the process of applying to college and how my parents think about supporting their children through that learning process as they are applying to schools.
Yeah, you know, I've been thinking this top one I think is sort of a skill as well as a mindset. And I feel like a lot of students who come to me, I've noticed that they don't see how amazing they are, Like, I feel like they lack confidence. It comes through in their essays where on the outside they have all the accolades, but on the inside they're quite nervous or they don't know like their strengths. And so I would say confidence is a huge thing. And so
with my students. For example, I had a student who came in with excellent grades. SAT score in she broke fifteen hundred, and I'm like, well, why aren't you applying.
To the top schools?
And she said, oh, my parents have a kid and that kid got a sixteen hundred, So I'm not going to apply. And I'm like, what, No, you know, just because like, don't care what other people are doing. You
always should put yourself out there. And so yeah, I have other students who have more concerns about social confidence, and so for those type of students, I'll be like, Okay, your assignment is to go talk to your teacher twice a week, ask them how their weekend was, or get phone numbers from people, invite them to hang out that type of thing. So I think there's a confidence issue.
I would say also with COVID, there's been so much isolation and screen time that getting kids away from their screens and into real life is super important.
Well, we're going to take a one more quick ad break and then we're going to be back talking more about life skills that kids can develop. Okay, so I am back with Alice ten. We are talking about all things college admission, but more broadly what kids can learn in the course of doing it. So you're saying confidence Sometimes kids need to just decide to try, even if
there's someone in the universe who's done better. But so what there always is that exactly getting to interact with people in the real universe, like asking your teachers for recommendations or figuring out how you can navigate situations. What else are people learning?
Yeah, I would say how to position themselves. Like a lot of times I'll read people's resumes and they'll be like super technical and I don't even understand what's on them. But then I teach them how to translate it into plain English and we talk about like scope and impact and things like that. So part of it is learning
how to communicate what you bring to the table. And a lot of times like their leaders, Like one of my students was doing research and she talked about how she was one of the top programmers and like the lead person in her lab. And I was like, Okay, who's in your lab and she said college students and grad students And I said, wait, you're one of the top people as a high schooler and she said yes.
And I said, well, would you say that you are like perhaps an informal mentor and she said, actually, the think about that, Like my mentor was off site in Canada, and so I was the person really in the lab and people would come to meet with questions. So yeah, I agree that that's something I could say, So we put.
That in the application.
So I think a lot of it is getting them to reflect and realize the impact and the value that they bring and communicate it to others, because you can be absolutely amazing. But if you can't share that message, only you're going to know. So opportunities come to those who put themselves out there and who can communicate how special and amazing they are.
Absolutely. And as parents, I mean, we know how special and awesome and wonderful our kids are. But what can we do as we are sort of supporting kids through this process that ultimately they have to do, right, I mean it's we're not the ones on novice applying for them. They need to be there doing it and thinking about all of it and managing the process. So what should we be doing? Yeah, to be supportive but not too in it.
Yeah, I agree, I think overall support and encouragement. Like with my own child, I'll tell her, oh my gosh, like I could see you as a great coach one day because she asks really great questions and I'm like, you've got great emotional intelligence. So whatever strengths you see, calling that out and just like encouraging them, I would say that's probably the primary thing. Maybe giving them a gentle nudge to get them out of their comfort zones.
But I'm sure that as high schoolers that gets harder. I would say that there are parents that hire out. That's why people bring in someone like me. So I'm sure two people can say the same thing, but if your parent says it, you're not going to listen.
But if like a partial, impartial.
Like third person gives you an assignment to go talk to people, you're going to do it, right, And so that's where I think, to like alleviate family tension at times, it could be beneficial to bring in a third person. But yeah, I think and also modeling in your own life, like you and Sarah are such self starters and you guys have created this amazing community and all that kind of stuff. Your kids are going to absorb that. So just focusing on yourself as well.
And what if the kid is really feeling a lot of stress about it, because I'm sure it is a stressful process. I mean, you're figuring out at least some chunk of your future. But from the perspective of being an adult, you could say, well, it's not your entire future, right, so sure, what can we do to maybe even lower the tension level a little bit?
Yeah, I totally agree, and that's why I think it's this focus on life skills and telling your students what your philosophy and outlook on life is, introducing them to various people who have done various things, and I just tell stories to my kids a lot of like, oh, this person didn't go to college, and look they did this amazing thing, right, And so I think just emphasizing your own philosophy awesome.
Well, we always end with a love of the week, so this is something that we are enjoying right now. So I was gonna throw out there. We're recording this in summer. This is running a little bit closer toward back to school season. But I've really been enjoying riding my bike. This is especially I mean I always like to take some sort of active break in the middle of the day, and when it's blazing hot outside, running
has zero appeal whatsoever. So I have to if I'm going to run, it's got to be in the morning. But then, well, what do I do to take a break in the afternoon. So I have been hauling my bike out and the good news is it can fit in the back of my car without my dealing with the bike rack stuff if I just put the seats down. So if I have to take anyone with me, then
the bike racks coming out. But if it's just me, I can stick it in my car, drive somewhere, bike for thirty forty minutes, come back and you know, it's been an hour long break. And I don't do it every day, of course, but once or twice a week has been a really nice thing to add to my life this summer.
That's awesome.
How about you?
El, Yeah, well, yesterday I felt like I needed a break, so I went to the beach. It's about five minutes from my house look, and it was so great. I just sat there, I smelled the salty air. I pulled out some watercolors, did a little painting. I am not an artist, but it's just really fun to put brush to paper and it was definitely the highlight of my day and maybe my week.
Awesome. Awesome, Well, I love that you just doing something just for fun right too. It has nothing to do with your career or nothing to do with like you're trying to be known for it or anything. But that's probably a good thing to model to children as well to our adolescence that you know we do stuff just because we want to do stuff, absolutely absolutely. All right, Well, Alice, why don't you let our listeners know where they can find you.
Yeah.
So, I have a website called Brightstory dot info. And I also have another blog that I write on which actually has some of the principles of bright Story. It's called Happy Asian Woman and it's on Happy Asianwoman dot substack dot com.
And that's just.
Helping people find more joy and meaningful and purposeful lives. And I like to incorporate those principles into my coaching, so as I'm figuring out it out on my own, I try to bring it into my work, so they kind of work together.
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Thank you, Laura.
Well we are back. That was a great interview with Alice Chen talking all things college admissions and the life skills that kids are also developing as they become young adults through that transition of the last year or so of high school. So, Sarah question, what are you doing about saving for college and do you plan to pay for your kids to go to college.
Yes, we plan to cover our kids undergraduate college don't know about grad school because the feasibility of that could get you know, multiplying times three could be a lot. And by that point they are adults, so that might be more or of like we can offer help, but for undergraduate we definitely do want to cover those expenses.
And so we do two things.
We do.
Florida, as a lot of states, have actually five twenty nine, but they also have something called the prepaid program, where like since the kids have been little, we paid like these little monthly installments. It's like a couple hundred dollars per kid that by the time they turn eighteen is actually like the full cost of going to any state University of Florida school.
Like it's done, you're done.
So of course if they don't go to one of those schools, you get whatever they're charging I think for tuition towards whatever other schools. So you're not going to throw it out the window no matter what. But pretty cool thing, and I think, you know, there's at least some chance that somebody will go to a Florida school, so that's great. And then we also do five twenty nine.
In addition, we really didn't start on that as early as we probably should have, probably around twenty twenty when it was like, oh, money is accumulating a little more, what should we do with it? But we stuck with it, and we do it as an auto draft for each kid. We do a little bit more for the older kids because Genevieve has a longer runway. Will we have the entire amount of like a private college by the time
they hit college. No, but I think we'll have enough of a dent that cash flowing the rest would be fine. And then if any of them do end up going to like a public college, then actually we would you know, that would be money they could use for any kind of graduate education as well.
Yeah, it is very important for me to pay for my kids to go wherever they would like to go. That is something that has I've wanted to do since having kids, and so, yes, that is what we will be doing. And to that end, saved money from when they were born in college funds for them and so got a long time still to go with Henry, but Jasper is about ready to go and that money should mostly cover it. And obviously you can cash flow whatever it doesn't but yeah, it's it's it's pricey, but I
don't know. I guess I feel like it's really hard starting adult life with a lot of loans. And it's one thing if you're going into profession you know, is high paid, like you're taking out loans for medical school or something like that. But with undergraduate I think it's a little bit more uncertain, and then that even can
affect what you wind up doing. I mean, you might not wind up going to a professional school because you have to start paying back these loans, and even if you can defer them, it just feels like a big load on top of you. So if I have the ability to not have my kids have to do that, then that's what we've been doing to jobs for you know, like my husband and me both working. One of the upsides of being a two income family is being able to hopefully make some choices like that. So I don't know.
I mean, I know some families there's in the whole frugal living community that you know, oh, we don't have to pay for kids college because it's good for them to work and learn how to do it. I'm like, well, you know, you can't really cover that much money working. It's not like when people could get a job over the summer and pay for the year's tuition. I mean it's almost impossible for a kid to do that now.
Yeah, I mean there are some pretty awesome pathways to very affordable public education in our state. I got to say, And I think that that's wonderful because we need families who don't necessarily have great incomes to have their kids be able to get an awesome start. But I also feel like if I have the money and I currently we're working for that, like, I don't know what else I'd want to spend it on. More Like, to me, this is like very high on my list of like
of my priorities. It's really way way up there. And I will say my parents, who didn't have super high incomes, they covered all of my expensive private college and I'm really really grateful for that because I loved my experience there and I don't think that was super easy for them.
But they must have been very much like slow and steady put it away, because I didn't ever actually hear anything, like you know, it didn't seem like it was hard, even though like doing the numbers, I'm sure it wasn't. It wasn't negligible, So thanks parents exactly exactly.
You know, I was very glad to not start my adult life with loans as well. So, but obviously there are ways to do college cheaper. I mean, my husband went to a state school on a full ride. There may be fewer of those now, but it was it was an option for him back in the day. But again, it's like, there are ways to do it if you can't, but if you can, we both feel like that's something we really want to do for our kids, and that's top of our financial goals. So yeah, there you go.
All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds. I've been interviewing Alice Chen about college admissions and life skills that kids learn in the process of applying. We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening.
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you.
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.