Hi.
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families.
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura.
This episode is airing in late October of twenty twenty four. I am going to be interviewing Sarah McCarty about getting kids outdoors. Sarah is the founder of an organization called Run Wild My Child, which has lots of editorial content and other things about getting kids outdoors. We had been wanting to do a show about this topic for a while. There's various ideas out there of various adventurous things you
can do with your kids. I don't know if you wish to hike the Pacific Crest Trail with your kids or something like that, but for those of us looking for a little bit more entry level outdoor activities.
Her ideas fit better with that.
So, Sarah, what are your general feelings about the great outdoors?
Uh, We're not the world's most outdoorsy, and I guess that's a little bit probably of a disappointment to my younger self imagining what life would be like with kids tramping around in fields or doing all sorts of nature centered activities. I would say the majority of our outdoor time is like on the sidelines at soccer games, or maybe at the pool, since swimming is always an easy way to stay cool in the summer and just something
to do. We've had a couple of travel experiences that's centered around more adventurous outdoor stuff and honestly haven't been our favorites. However, the one exception would be skiing. I think that strikes a nice balance for us between enjoying being outside and fresh air, but then also like a specific activity.
Yeah.
I don't know hiking with kids as hard. We've done a few good hikes, I mean with my older three kids. A couple of years ago we did like a six mile hike in Yellowstone that went quite well, and there was a little bit of whining in the middle of it.
But we made it. We saw stunning vistas and all this other stuff.
But yeah, with little kids, I mean they don't really walk briskly from point A to point B all that well. But you know, we've had a good We're getting outside with bikes. Biking around our driveway in the neighborhood has been a fun thing to do, you know. I yeah, I probably should be outside more like being outside.
It's a little harder to involve the whole family.
But Sarah McCarty not hard anger, but the other Sarah is about to share some great ideas, so please give it a listen well, Sarah, as in Sarah Hartunger and I are delighted to welcome Sarah McCarty to the program. Sarah is the founder and editor of Run Wild My Child, which is a magazine, website, et cetera devoted to getting kids outside. So Sarah, welcome to the show.
Hi, thank you so.
Much for having me. I'm honored to be here today. Like you said, I am the founder of a company called Run Wild My Child. This started off as just a blog, a website basically for getting kids and their parents off screens and outdoors. So I am an attorney by trade, and back when I was a baby lawyer, I decided that I would run a marathon, and I start.
I did a website and a blog all about writing about marathon training, which sounds awful, but I realized I quickly loved writing a whole lot more than the running portion. So the writing continued through wedding planning and some infertility, and then kids came along and it was all things kids and babies. And as my kids got older, I realized that there was this magical thing called the outdoors that made kids act better, eat better, sleep better, get
along better. And I just couldn't believe that every parent in the world wasn't shouting from the rooftops about just getting outside with their kids. And I started writing about my adventures with our kids and how much better it made me feel as a parent, how much better my kids were doing, and all the things that we were doing, hiking and fishing and camping, and I couldn't believe the response that I was getting from parents, just how do you do this? Where do you go? What gear do
you use? I want recommendations. I think there were a lot of parents out there that wanted to give their kids the type of childhood that they grew up having, you know that like go outside until the street lights come on kind of childhood. But things are different and there are these things called screens, and it was just so much harder to get kids interested in going outside or to figure out how just to get to the park.
And there were websites about hiking the Appalachian Trail with toddlers, but there was nothing like how did just get out the door with your sanity intact and kids wearing shoes and snacks. So I decided, well I could do that. So I started writing about runwot like our adventures. I called it Run Wild My Child, and it just kind of exploded. And I think it was just a lot of good timing on my part, right before COVID, before the world shut down and everybody wanted to be outside.
And then we have gone on to launch a podcast in a magazine, and we still have the website and we have a community, and it's just grew in a way that I never could have imagined.
Awesome.
Well, I'm very curious, I mean, what is it about being outside? I mean, obviously there are degrees of this. I mean, if it's like one hundred and ten degrees outside. I'm not you know, kids are not necessarily better behaved outside, whether it's terrible.
Sorry, I've had had.
Some whining myself in that situation, but in general, I mean, if the weather is pleasant, what is it about being outside that seems to make people more agreeable?
I think part of it is taking away this structure. You've probably heard the saying like, you can't bounce off the walls if there aren't any walls. So getting kids outside and giving them the ability to dictate their own play, to come up with their own ideas or things that they have to do. Is this magical thing called unstructured free play where they are in charge and it's a sensory experience. It's foster's creativity. It makes them curious about
the things around them. They have to pay attention, They have to figure out what to do and how to climb these things. And you know, if they find a stick, what they have to turn it into a wand or a sword or something, and just it really opens kids' eyes to imaginative play and unstructured free play gives them the power to control the things that they're doing. They have to make up the rules, they have to communicate.
It's a little different than playing with toys inside because a lot of times those toys have specific purposes and there's one right way to play a board game, you know, there's one right way to play with a truck. But if you go outside, you kind of take away all the rules and kids just come alive. And sometimes it takes time, and it's not the thing that happens within
the first minute or two. And I think sometimes parents, especially if they're just getting started with kids getting outside, can get a little discouraged because they'll go out and they're like, fifteen minutes later, like, why aren't they playing? Why are they still clinging to me? But I've read somewhere that it takes sometimes twenty to forty minutes for kids to really get actively involved in outdoor play, unstructured,
freakly on their own. So it just takes time and patience and persistence and making this a priority, and then you will really see your kids start to thrive outdoors because there are so many health benefits and you know, all kinds of just magical things that happen for kids and adults, and you'll start to feel better too.
Yeah, I was gonna say, let's talk about the adults, because I mean, I may not be engaging in much unstructured flee play outside I have to I'd say, I'm not really climbing that many trees these days. But what I mean it tends to put adults in a better mood as well.
Yeah, and I think that a lot of that is, you know, it's the fresh air, it's the sunshine, it's getting outside and having some kind of white space around you to think, to process, to work through things. I just always feel like, not only am I do I feel better, but I'm a better parent when I'm outside because I'm not constantly like, stop doing that, No, don't climb the walls, don't jump on that thing. You know, like all the things that the distractions that are inside.
I'm constantly cleaning and finding things that I have to do. You take all that away when you're outside and you give yourself some space to really think and breathe and relax, and it just, I don't know it you magically feel better. There's plenty of research to prove it.
Awesome.
Well, we're going to take one quick ad break and then we will come back and talk about some practical ways to start building an outdoor habit. Well, I am back talking with Sarah McCarty of Run Wild My Child, a website about getting kids outdoors. So, you know, let's get to the practicalities here, because, like you said, you know what entry level getting outside. We're not hiking the Appalachian Trail here, We're just looking to get outside for a little bit. But we've got a lot of very
busy families listening to this show. You know, two jobs, kids and a lot of activities. What are some practical ways to start building this into our lives.
Oh, it's such a great question, and I want to emphasize that having parents who are working in kids in traditional schools and sports and activities does not prohibit anybody from still being outdoorsy. I think sometimes the outdoor kid industry really supports like homeschooling families and parents maybe that stay home, but everybody is welcome outdoors and everyone become outdoorsy, and I think really the first thing to do is just decide that it's going to be a priority, and
sometimes that means putting in on the schedule. I live by my schedule, by our calendar, so sometimes I've got that scheduled into our day that we need to get outside and then trying to figure out what it is to do with them. So we have a huge list of activities and parks and places to go and things to do around us, and that will eliminate some of that stress about like, well I don't know what to do once we get out there, or where do we
even go? So I would start with making a huge list of everything that you can do within fifteen minutes of you and when you have some free time and you get to that time of scheduling, like that's what you do, You go out there, you do the thing. Some of the times, it's great to revisit things that you've already done. Don't feel like you always have to try something new. There's so much benefit of going to
the same places over and over again. The seasons change, things in nature change just naturally, so revisiting similar places or the same place again and again is don't feel like everything has to be a new adventure. And go with them. I think, especially when they're little, you have to be the one to get out there with them and kind of model the behavior and what you want
them to do. If you're outside with them, but you're checking your phone every few minutes, or you're distracted, or you don't want to be there, or you're complaining about the weather, like they're going to pick up on that they don't want to be out there if you're miserable, So model that you're having fun. So just you gotta fake it till you make it. If you're not outdoorsy like kind of you have to pretend for a while until they can kind of figure out how to get
outside and how much better it makes you feel. And it may surprise you and you may even become outdoors by spending some time outside.
Well, when does this happen in your family schedule? I mean you said, you know it's busy, you put it on the calendar. What does that actually mean? Like in the McCarty family schedule.
So, my kids go to traditional schools, so we do outdoor time after school, and sometimes that means we come home and the kids ride their bikes to friends' houses or just up and down the street around the neighborhood. We kind of push back on homework or anything that kind of comes with school until you know, we give them at least an hour to get outside and play kind of running around and get some of that energy out. We schedule on weekends. We're both working parents, so weekends
are coveted for us. That is our family time together. So we do sports and all the kids have their own activities, but we try to find those pockets of time or the weekends that we have off where we can really get outside and do some more adventurous things. We always have gear in our car, so if we've got time in between two baseball games or in between activities, we've got our fishing poles and in the back of the truck will just stop somewhere and fish for an hour.
We've got our hiking clothes, so we can just jump out and you know, at the park and take a walk around. We try to find pockets of time wherever we can and fit that in, even if it just means taking a walk while someone's at practice. You know, everybody else takes a walk around the block or around the track, and really just trying to make sure that you have opportunities, that you can take advantage of the opportunities that you have.
And you mentioned earlier, I mean one of the barriers you were talking about parents like, well, I'm not going to go hike the apple a tintral. I'm just trying to get people out the door. I wonder if there are more any sort of hacks you have about getting small children out the door easier. There's always a lot of shoes, and if you're in somewhere that's cold, like Saint Louis, I imagine there are boots and hats.
And there's always one mitten that there's.
One man missing. So let's talk about that missing mitten and how we make that not a barrier.
Yeah. I think the winter definitely adds an entire new element to getting outside. And sometimes it will take you longer to find all of the things and get dressed, and it actually the kids will are willing to spend outside. So I think that you just kind of have to plan ahead of time and know what you're going to do.
So if you know you're just going to go outside in the front yard, having a place where all of your gear lives and it stays there, and that means it's easy for the kids when they walk in the door and they start shedding layers and stripping and throwing things that it all can stay in one place. So kind of think of the layout of your house and how when and where the kids come in and where things tend to gather and if you can put something there.
We have this giant rubber maid that has three drawers, and so each kid has a drawer and that's where they're gloves and there's arts and their hats and everything goes there. And the rest of the year, when it's not winter, that lives in the basement, so we don't ever have we don't have to see it, but then we pull it out every winter and it's there. And
then just having things ready to go. I always have like a box in my car full of things that I think I need, which means like a change of clothes for everybody, because you may just happen a pond, a creek, or a mud puddle that the kids feel like they have to explore and they have to get into. And I can't even tell you how many times we have driven home with all the kids completely, you know, with no clothes because they just got so wet and
money and had fine, but it was worth it. I would rather be the mom that says, yes, you can get money and not worry about it than try to keep them from having fun and playing because they didn't have a change of clothes. Now I'm a little bit better prepared.
Have some towels in the car. Yeah, always a good death. I'm wondering about.
Obviously it's fun to go somewhere, but I imagine a reasonable amount of ones outdoor time could just happen in your yard.
For our listeners who are.
Sort of standard suburban folk and have a quarter acre lot or whatever it is, I wonder if there are things you would recommend having for your house, outdoor toys, outdoor equipment, things like that that would make your yard competitive with YouTube shorts.
Oh totally, okay. So a slack line, it's a great addition to any backyard. We have one set up just out there year round and the kids go out on it. They bounce, they flip, they do all kinds of things. So we have paired our slack line with like a ninja course, like so we've got the one the slack line on the bottom that they can walk across, but then they've got these like almost like an obstacle course that they can have to hang on as they on the top. So they loved that. We had for years.
My kids have finally gotten to the point where they just absolutely destroyed it. But it was an outdoor clubhouse. I think we got it at Sam's or Costco or something, and it was a kind of a cedar wooden plank like little clubhouse. And that clubhouse lasted years and it took a beating. My kids climbed on it. They played restaurant, they played shop like. They would just sit in it when it rained and watch the rain. They made it an igloo in the winter. They put fairy lights in it.
Like so many stories and like cute things happened in that tiny little clubhouse. Other things. A little red wagon is just a great addition. My kids have used that for karting anything and everything and each other all around the yard. I'm a huge fan of bikes and scooters and anything that kind of gets them moving and going and giving them a little bit more of a thrilling sensory. As kids get older, they really try to seek those
thrills and find fun and exciting things to do. So if you give them things like bikes and scooters, and they just love that stuff. If you live on a we live on a cold sax, so our street is really accessible and easy for them to kind of just you know, we don't have a lot of traffic, so they run the entire neighborhood.
Do you think it's easier for kids to get out if they are in that kind of neighborhood or I mean, is it something that our urban dwelling listeners can also access pretty easily.
I think having other kids is so enticing for kids, and that is one of the biggest things that I would tell parents. If you've got other kids around, talk to the other parents and see if there's something that you guys can collectively do to get more kids outside. Because I can have all of the toys and the gadgets and the fun stuff outside, but my kids would pick playing with other kids outside over anything I can offer. So if there are other kids, that is a lot
more fun than whatever I can give them. And luckily, like most parents right now really do want their kids to spend time outside, and they're willing to post the little backyard playdate today if you host tomorrow, or let your kids come over and jump on the trampoline or whatever it is. Like most of the time, parents are pretty willing and it's a great way to get to know your neighbors and then your you know, your kids have built in friends on the street. And I think
we're very lucky living in a city. I grew up in the middle of the country, which I feel like, would we have a you know, getting outside and being accessible to the woods in nature was so easy, but I had nobody to play with. So I feel like my kids are growing up in this amazing situation where maybe they don't have a woods and a pond and all of the amazing things I had as a kid, but they have other kids, which is a whole nother thing.
Yeah, so I'm just pondering another barrier that's going to be coming up for my family fairly soon. You know, we're in Pennsylvania, which is on the Eastern time zone, and we're on the eastern part of the Eastern time zone, which means that in approximately a month after this episode airs, it will be dark at four forty five PM, right, so there's not a whole lot of daylight.
Can you still have fun in the dark?
Oh, that's even more fun. As your kids get older, they're going to find ways to have fun outside at night. And it is so much fun watching this happen. So I would start with if you've got little kids or you need to keep them close and safe and watch, start with creating a space in your own yard that is lit up, that is fun and exciting for them.
So if you've got the toys in the seleck lane, in the clubhouse and everything out there, or a playground like a playset, swing set, put some fairy lights out. I mean it doesn't take much. Get some with the white, little twinkly lights and put them around your bench, or decorate the swing set or the clubhouse with fairy lights, and that is a huge draw. Kids are going to immediately want to go out there and spend more time
out there. And then if you've got other spaces that are safe for your kids, think about things like the glow in the dark sports things. So there's like glow in the dark, Capture the Flag. There are glow in the dark footballs and baseballs. There's glow in the dark stomp rockets, glow in the dark basketballs, so all kinds of glow in the dark stuff. They're so fun for kids. And it's sometimes the novelty wears off after a little while, but at least those first few months or two when
it's starting to get dark. They really like those things.
Awesome.
Give them a head lamp or a flashlight and go for walks or try to find some outdoor spaces that are well lit. We've got things some parks and playgrounds that stay open later and they're well lit. We've got tennis courts and basketball courts are usually lit up later, outdoor skating ranks and things like that where you can go and it's public places where you can be outside and still be safe and well lit.
Amazing.
All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break and we will be back talking a little bit more about getting kids outdoors. Well, I am back with Sarah McCarty of Run Wild My Child. We've been talking about ways to get outdoors even if it happens to be dark, even if you need to bundle your children up in various mittens and hats and all those things. So, Sarah, we've been mentioning a lot of products that might help
make the outdoors as enticing as YouTube. But as we're coming into the holidays, I wonder if there are some go to outdoor related gifts that you think maybe we should consider adding to the gift list.
For kids this year.
Oh, where do we even start? There's so many good wines we actually have. Every year we put together a huge gift guide that's geared specifically towards outdoor kids and outdoor toys outdoor gear. So I would say a few things to add to Christmas lists if you don't already have one. A bike is a great, just a really all around great gift. If you can find some things to make your yard a little more enticing, make sure
to add those to your list. If your kids are in need of gear, consider like wool layers, a new pair of boots, any kind of headlamp or flashlight or something. Kids love. Gear and gadgets, Toys, classic toys like I mentioned, like a wagon or something a hammock, a backpack if you hike so they can carry their own gear. There are so many fun things that the kids can that you can add your kids Christmas list that will help them spend more time outside.
I love that you mentioned a hammock because outdoor time, I mean it often is active time, especially if they're little kids, because that's just what they do. They have constant energy. But it doesn't have to be so if you have a kid who is maybe more of a like bookworm type, they can still get outside and read on a hammock that would still count as outdoor time.
Oh yeah, absolutely. And there's a lot of things that you could get for kids who aren't necessarily wanting to be super active. Like I mentioned that the slack line. I mean, it's active, but it's not like you're working up a sweat on that. Things like fishing pools that you don't have to be super active when you're fishing, like a pocket knife you could have for an older child.
There are games and things you could do outside that are you know, outdoor TikTok toe games and the clubhouse that I mentioned, all good things for kids who may not be as active.
And one other topic I wanted to bring up is outdoorsy trips because of course, obviously if kids are in school and activities, parents are working. One of the major times that people do have together is vacations. So if we're looking for sort of accessible, outdoorsy type vacations, one could take what are some places that you would recommend looking into.
Well, everyone's going to recommend national parks, and while I think national parks are amazing, I wouldn't overlook your local state parks. I think state parks are really underrated and have some just absolutely amazing facilities and options for families that don't want to spend quite so much traveling to
some of these kind of exotic locations. I mean, here in Saint Louis, we don't really have a lot of national parks or easy access, so we really rely heavily on our state parks and they're sometimes just as spectacular. Going camping at state park, I mean, is quite the amazing experience for kids, And I would say if you want to do any other types of traveling, really think about your interests in your kids interests based on how
old your kids are. If they're little, then I would pick things that are a little bit more focused towards your interests or things that they can do. You know, beach trips are great for little kids, but once your kids get a little bit older, think about the things that really excite them. If you've got kids into mountain biking, consider going some players like Ventonville, Arkansas, that has absolutely
amazing mountain biking. If you've got a kid who really wants to learn how to ski, then you may need to travel a little further west, but you know, someplace like Big Sky would be amazing to take kids skiing. If you are looking for fishing, you could do saltwater fishing, or you could go up north into Michigan or Minnesota. And fishing is just absolutely a great outdoor sport for kids and can be done in just a lot of
different various locations. But I would really consider what you guys like doing together as a family and try to find a place that will offer you some kind of new and exciting things to do related to those interests.
Awesome, well, Sarah, this has been great. We always end with a love of the week, so this is something
that is exciting for you this week. And I will go ahead and throw out one that my listeners have heard me talk about in the past, and we call it toad time and our family and you know, it's getting darker here in this part of the world, but toad means time outside after dinner, and so I love that there's a getting outside before dinner sort of seems obvious, but time outside after dinner always feels like a little bit of a bonus, a bit of a stolen time
into the evening. So the kids are definitely loving running around in the yard before it gets dark, or maybe it'll be after it gets dark pretty soon, but how about you, Okay.
My favorite thing that I have right now is my e bike, so I got last year. I got an e bike. And I have never really been a biking person. I don't know, and maybe because I grew up in the country, we didn't really have like a lot of access to bike trails or anything, so a biking was just never really my thing. But now that I'm in the suburbs, I kept thinking, like, that might be nice to have a bike, but also an e bike would yoube even better? And I finally I got one last year.
It's a Radio Flyer and it has this little seat on the back so I can put two kids on the back, and I have a basket up front so I can go to the grocery store, I can go to the library, I can do like I can pick the kids up from school. I use this thing way more than I ever thought I would, and it is so much fun. I have a total blast riding it around town. Kids love it. They put on their like they have like this wu face that like every time we get out of they're like, whooh, it's just it's
so much fun. I We're just absolutely loving it.
E bikes are pretty amazing. It's like the fun of a bike, but also not as much of the work.
Sometimes it's fantastic.
Yeah, I don't have to pedal up that giant hill. You go up it as if you were Superman. So that's always fun. Well, Sarah, why don't you let our listeners know where they can find you?
Yeah? So online, we're at runwildmchild dot com on Instagram where at run wild dot my child And we have a brand new printed hold It in your Hand magazine that is coming out seasonally and it is filled with adventure stories and misadventure stories, you know, adventures gone wrong, seasonal activities. Every season has a theme and a challenge. We have a kids section in there with chokes for kids and nature like nature facts, and we have recipes
all kinds of amazing things. Just this is all for outdoorsy moms and it is for everyone, and it's just to help you feel supported in prioritizing outdoor time and getting outside and it's there to hold your hand and encourage you to make getting outside with your kids a priority and not on a screen right right, which is amazing. It really supports our cause we started it digitally and after two or three issues we're like, we have to get this printed. It's so nice to hold it in your hands.
Awesome, all right, Sarah, Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you so much.
Well, that was great.
Lots of tips and gift ideas for the holidays. Hopefully people were writing those down as they are making those shopping lists for the next few months.
So Sarah, our question this week.
This listener writes in that I feel like every year I order a Halloween costume and then my kid changes as mind any tips or ideas.
Has this ever happened to you?
I think we have had it happen a couple of years in the past. Halloween is not like my favorite, but I guess maybe as such, we treat it fairly low key. Usually there's one trip to Spirit Halloween or like one Amazon order and just kind of get it all done. And my two thoughts are I generally am
not interested in buying two costumes. Like, we have a lot of random costumes around the house as it is between the three kids, and that's something that tends to not get thrown out, but get kept because you never know when it could be a fun play activity. So you get one purchase costume, and then if you would like to pivot, then the house is your oyster, do I wyatt, do whatever you want, but we're not going
to necessarily make another shopping trip. And the other thought is that if you delay that purchase, there is less time to pivot. So let them pivot in their head. But then when you shop, you know, two days before Halloween, then hey, that's probably going to be the costume you end up with just a couple of days later.
Yeah, no, I it's we've sort of evolved on the Halloween things. So my first few years of parenthood, I would sort of forget that Halloween is coming up because if the kids aren't talking about it, if you got like toddlers, it's not like they have any concept that there's a Halloween holiday coming.
Up, And so I'd forget.
And I remember I sent Jasper to daycare like not in a costume when he was like I don't know, I guess he would have been eighteen months and everybody else was in costume or something, and it was just I was like, Okay, next year, I'll put it on the calendar, like October five. We're going to think about it and order the costumes. And the upside of October five is you can order long lead time stuff.
You know, you don't have to order from Amazon. You could order from other places.
But as the kids have gotten older, the problem of ordering at the beginning of October is, yes, you know, people change their minds where they find out their friends are going as something else or whatever. You know, So we've sort of made our piece that it probably is going to be an Amazon order. Now, Amazon does out of stuff, so probably around October ten to twenty it was the right range for setting a date where you're like, okay,
this is where we lock it in. I will order you something if you have decided on it at this point. But past that, I mean you can always, yeah, make a run to Spirit Halloween. They might be out of your kid's size, but I guess that's the way it is.
You can all have something. They'll have so much stuff.
Yeah, so maybe they'll change their minds of what exactly they want to be. But I guess pick and eight stick with it one costume. Past that, the kid can be creative as they wish and figure out how to make their own eminem costume or whatever.
It is you said, eminem i. The wrapper is a Mathers too if you'd like, But that's what you may also be a green eminem many many, many options. All right, well, this has been best of both worlds.
We've been talking how to get outside with kids with Sarah McCarty of Run Wild My Child. We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together.
Thanks for listening.
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.