Ep. 60: Crystal Pepsi Power Worms

otter Lord? Good morning, degenerate anglers, and welcome to Bent, the fishing podcast that wants to punch the face of the guy that bails on a fishing trip and says guests, I made the right call when he finds out that the fishing sucked. I'm Joe Surmelie, and I'm joined today by a dear friend I know feels the same way. My amigo, Jimmy Fee of On the Water magazine is

guest hosting today. What's up, Jimmy? What's up Joe? That is I feel like one of the cardinal rules of being a good fishing body not not doing that exact thing. We have. We have had that conversation, So is that guy's I guess I made the right Well I went and you didn't you did not make the right call um anyway. So it's funny because I told listeners they'd be hearing from many frequent Bent guests, but with you, I've I've pretty much lied because you've never been on

this show before. So you're like you're a fresh voice, which means nobody knows anything about you. So if you had to, I don't know, describe yourself in three words, what would they be? So right now, three words for me and my fishing would definitely be needs some sleep. Oh, you're doing the thing where you're out all night with the fish and the striped bass. I've been doing, yeah, and and some weirder stuff. I got into some nighttime

crabbing last night, nighttime. Who doesn't like you'll like lose sleep to go nighttime crabbing to catch crabs because that's when the crabs are active, That's when my kids are asleep. It's it's really what what that comes down to? You know what? That what that's like? Okay, fair enough? Uh As, look all right, So I'm making fun of you for nighttime crabbing, but I'm I'm not nighttime crabbing, and I'm gonna make him here feels slightly uncomfortable for a sec

because he's a humble man. Um, but he is one of the most devoted surfcasters I know. I would say elite. Elite is the word I would use, Um, dude, Like, you've caught more more huge stripers in the surf than anyone else I know personally, and I mean barring Bob garbage man. But unlike your average insta here, you stay very hush hush about your surf fishing in particular. I mean part of that is because I don't get any good pictures of my fishing the surf. It's a very

hard environment. I'll I'll give you that. But man, yeah, I've always respected that about you so much. And we're also good buddies because we've worked in the same industry for a long time. Like you're a multi species, multi media angler. I guess that's what we are, like myself. Um, you work full time for a media company, writing, editing,

shooting and hosting videos. So like when venting needs to happen about our jobs, about the behind the scenes stuff that the viewers and readers don't see, I can just text you and you understand, you know what I mean. It's like it's like two brains. It's like brain surges. I can just x uh uppermoter neurons. Am I right, And you're just like totes you know, well plate well uh So. One of the other reasons I wanted to have you on is because, um, I wanted to talk

about loose theme here fomo fear of missing out. And I think it's fair to say that, regardless of the fishery, every angler experiences fomo. But you and I have a very specific kind of fomo, which is tuna fomo. Oh, and it's it's not for tuna. The fishing has been so good for the past few seasons. It's not a fear of missing out. It's a fact of missing out. I'm not worried I'm going to miss out. I know I'm missing out right there with you. I'm right there

with you. I mean. And part of the problem, right, it's for all the different kinds of fishing we do. It's like the one thing where we're we're reliant on other people like you and I don't have the means to just like, well, I'm gonna go tuna fishing Saturday. Like it's just one of those things we need somebody else to take us. That's kind of part of the problem. You do. You either have a close friend with a boat, or you have a good boat yourself, and that's your

ticket to the tunic grounds. And if you don't have that, you're always a couple degrees away of having that reliable tuna invite when you know the bite's good, which leaves you, Joe, you book a trip, you have to book something months in advance. I'm getting to that, right. And now, see you live up on Cape Cod, so you're you're surrounded by saltwater. Um. And like I said, I've never owned a boat big and capable enough to get me to

these fish. But I feel like five six years ago, I don't know about you, but like I had rides out the wazoo, like I was turning down this tuna guy to go with that tuna guy. And for multitude of reasons, that's just changed. Right, boats get sold, people's kids grow up and eat up more time, and so on. And I'm not bitter about it, but like you said, it's just it's just facts. Now I've just sort of

learned to live with it. Um. So I do I just try and book a charter with a guide at least once a season, and without fail, that day will be canceled by whether or engine trouble or whatever. I have always had better luck on impromptu tuned trips than planned ones, but those are rare anymore. And like you said, you like you also can't invite yourself. It's kind of

like code. You have to be invited. There's a lot that goes into tuna fishing, not only fueling the boat, which is very expensive because you're running further than you would for your typical inshore trip. The gear itself is very expensive. It's tough to be like, Hey, I'll bring some P. B and J's. Can I get on the boat this weekend? I got some dill pickle wrangles if I can get in on that, Yeah, exactly. It's it's

like the crews are very tight. It tends to be the same guys that run with each other over and over again, and either you're in or you're not. But now, the big problem that you and I have is we both closely follow some badass tuna charter guides and every season I'm like, I'm gonna unfollow these people. And it's not because they're not good dudes. But I just can't take the fomo like I just it gets to a

point where I I can't stand looking. And here's a hot tip for everybody, right, Following charter guides is pretty much a trap. Like if you suffer from any sort of fishing fomo, you don't follow local guides because it's very easy to forget that it's their job to be out there every day, you know what I mean? Oh, definitely. Yeah, in general, it's not the captains who are out there catching the fish every day, right, they're the ones they're putting the clients on the fish, and that comes with

its own set of headaches. I've been on boats with captains who are so let's call it intense, that they really want you to get into the fish, that it's borderline. They're yelling, they're yelling, and you have to be yelling. I've I've been yelled at many times. But the point is that like that guy is getting the getting the love because he's the captain. But the dude who actually got to really in that fish that you didn't for all,

you know, that was his one a year. Like that was the trip he booked five months ago and he got lucky and got the weather. Um. But regardless, at the time of this recording, I've not gotten out for tuna once this season. Um. But you know you and I are eyeballing a lot of the same captains because on the water your magazine covers New England and New Jersey. Um. And I won't hear from you for for like a month, and then randomly on a Tuesday at two pm, I'll

get this text from Jim. That's just tell me you're getting on this tuna bite, right? You do that, and I sigh and grovel and I tell you why I'm not, and then I won't hear from you again for another month. Well, this year's bite was so good midsummer down here. The text was just right to the point, when are you going tuna fishing? And and my response was you. That's when, like, I was so angered by that point in the summer that I hadn't gotten my piece of the action. I

felt bad. It felt like I was rubbing it in at that point, which I wasn't. I just assumed you've been out there. They were practically there were guys in kayaks catching them off New Jersey. That's not true, guys, it's like, but it happened. Guys went out there looking for fluke and caught some blue fin tuna. Well good for them and the kayak they rode in off. But you can't come. You can't complain anyway because you you got yours man very recently, Like tell us about the

giant it's scratcher you just caught. Yeah. So I was out with my friend, Captain Rob Taylor, and he runs Newport Sport fishing guide service and he also does come martial fishing for giant bluefin tuna. So he happened to have a day where he didn't have a charter. He was going out to try to catch a bluefin tuna to sell. Was kind enough to invite me out with him, and uh man, we waited all day in the rain in Cape Cod Bay until we finally got our bite at five thirty. And it was a pretty quick battle

forty five minutes. Uh pretty quick for it's short. That's short for a tune to the size that size. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a insure wait a five and ten pounds. When we brought it the you call up the truck, they come. They lifted out of the boat and then that that fish ideally goes to auction and and we'll probably fly to Japan. It's probably on its way there now. So you didn't get to taste any of that, obviously because Rob sold it. But that's a that's a different

caliber tuna fishing. That's not the fun running gun jigging pop stuff like what's that really like? I've never done that. I'n't caught a five pound fish like you reeled you like you did it so much as I am just the guy who just cranked the handle on the reel. I was the one not losing the fish. That's that's your loan job. As the angler. Rob does the it's an important job. It's a a job, but it's the the captain that he set the drag, he did all

the rigging for it. He's got the boat in the right place, caught the bait so all, and then he's positioning the boat around the fish while you're fighting it. But everything is in place so that it minimizes the margin for our The rod remains in the rod holder.

There's a swiveling rod holder with the big one thirty size Shamano Thiagra reel, which is like the big bucket reel you see in jaws, just much older and much nicer, and then a really long but really strong rod that just and all that does it stays right in the rod holder. You're not really holding the rod and feeling the power of that fish. You were just trying to gain line when that fishes is stopped and turns his head in your destruction. But that's all the time you

don't see on weiked tunas. So what I'm asking you is, like, how painful is it? They don't really talk about that, Like is it tortured to real like that? Uh, you start to burn out pretty quickly, especially you know, I'm not not in the best shape, and uh, like your shoulder, your arms starts to burn and and they do. You see a wicked tuna. A lot of let's call it yank and crank where those guys are grabbing the line, yeah, yeah, pulling it down to get there, their crank on the reel.

Each captain fish is a different way. Rob Fish is a tighter drag than most captains, so he just has the guys cranking the real That eliminates another margin for error. Where my first giant I ever hooked, it was a couple of years ago, I was out with another captain and doing that yank and crank style, and the fish went to run and I had a grip on the line and pop the leader right off. So then let go in time. Well, good for you. I'm happy for

you that you got your big tuna. I'm also hoping to get robbed on this show at some point, because you tell me he's quite a character, right, um. And you know who else as a character, My buddy Conway Bowman out in California. And this is the guy that is pioneered fly fishing for mako sharks, among many other things. And I have fomo about this too because I've never done it. But it's just not quite the same, right

because it's not in my backyard. I just I can't be too upset about something happening on the opposite coast. But if you're a sweetwater angler, you might get upset about one of the answers Conway gives in this week's Covering Water. I'm going in. I can hold it. I'm all right joining me today for covering Water. My old buddy, my old pal, Conway Bowman, San Diego, pioneer of fly fishing, for Mako sharks. What's going on? Man, how's life out there? And so cal Well, it's uh, it's life and so

cal Um. You know, lots of lots of crazy stuff going on. We just had a They tried to recall the governor and he uh yeah, he weathered that storm, which is amazing anyway, so we're back to square one. But other than that, it's fine. I mean, it's a it's California, but it's southern California, so it's different. Yeah, it's different, but it's good, you know, excellent. Well, we

have to tell everybody what happens. So this is actually take two on covering water with Conway a bowman, because the last time we did this, all I heard in my headphones was the creepiest, eeriest horror movie gong. It's like the it's like a droning. I think we were channeling the other side. And what was creepier is you couldn't hear this on your end, right, I know, it's weird. It was really weird. It like it was literally some Poulter guy ship. And I recorded a piece so that

you guys can hear this now. Conway couldn't hear it. This is all I could hear. Yeah, I don't hear that. Let's see this podcast. Yeah, there's nothing else abopen hold hold on. So I'm wondering, dude, have you like have this like did you do the sage or hire the little Poulter guyst lady? Have you have you corrected this problem? You've got the demons out of the Bowman residence. I don't know. I do think this house is honted though.

This is really weird stuff that's been that has happened since we moved in here about six years ago, just you know, just weird stuff. So it might be haunted. I don't know. But if if somebody listening, somebody techie, knows what that was, they'll be like, oh, yeah, it was just this let me know. Because even our audio guy Phil was like, I don't know, man, I've never heard anything like that before. It was weird. Yeah yeah, but anyway, man, So beyond beyond uh, you know, fly

fish and Fromaco is that whole deal? I mean, you've been the host of several TV shows, Ford Outfitters, fly Fishing in the World, Fifty Places to fly Fish Before you Die, You've written books, You've traveled all over the world to chase fish. And what I also think I know about you is, um, you grew up in the in the surf skate scene out there a little bit right, there's a little bit of punk rock and you. And I think I once saw a picture which I'd love to have, by the way, to post on Instagram to

promo this. It's a very young you with like big frosted wavy hair, like super eighties like thrash hair. Yeah, that's what I had, hair I had, I had, quite yeah, quite right on, right on. So anyway, did Here's how, Here's how covering water works. So this segment is designed to just look sort of beyond the fishing skills and really get a deeper behind the scenes look at who

our guests really are. So I'm gonna put two minutes on the clock and I'm just gonna rapid fire twenty questions that you will get through as many as we can. But the whole idea, right, you don't have much time to think. You just have to answer, and at the end I will give you one full minute to elaborate or back pedal on whichever answer you think was most damnit. Sound good? Sounds all right? Here? We go two minutes

on the clock with Conway Bowman. Of all the fish you've targeted, what was the most difficult to catch on fly time this year? In point break? Who are you rooting for? Bodie or Johnny? Utahah? Really all right? The worst place you ever had a hook stuck in you was my back? Oh that's okay. How many times a season do you hear clients say we're gonna need a bigger boat every every day? Okay? The most underrated fish in US waters is the car beautiful social distortion or

black flag black flag love it. The oldest piece of tackle you own and still use is flu your Metalist fourteen ten classic classic. Your favorite line from Fast Times at Ridgemont High is uh, Mr Hand, Mr Hand? No, it's oh god, so many I got you man? Okay, we're part of that. We're on my time, our time whatever that our time, right on, right on? Which part of the makeo on the fly process do people screw

up most often? Um? The cast? Really? Okay? If you could choose one celebrity to fish with for a day, who would it be? Keith Richards Nice we share a birthday, by the way. Um, so you've targeted tons of species. Tell me which one is still on your bucket list? The man guard the man? What does the man man guard? Wait, we'll elaborate late. I'm a Cloucks running out. The last concert you attended was Oh my god, um English speed. Okay, alright, last one. What's the most overrated fish in US waters?

The large mouth bass? Beautiful? Could not agree more? That's time that dude? That was That was great. So there's there's several ones I think could use some elaboration, But I'm curious to hear which one we you only get to pick one. Which one do you want to tell us more about? Uh? It's the Johnny Utah or boat. And I'm sorry, Yeah, it was good. I'm sorry. I commend you for using You just said that large mouth suck.

But you're gonna use your time here on bent to tell us why body is cooler and that's why I love you, So go ahead. Uh, Well, he just is. I mean he was more tan. He looked more like a surfer, although he could. Patrick Swayzey was a horrible paddler, by the way. He was a he was just he was just more badass. I mean, he skydived he robbed a bank. Uh and uh he was he was the Bodhi softa Bra. Yeah. I mean, you know he was Bodie.

He controlled his environment, whether he whether it was controlling war child or um, you know, or controlling the police officer. I mean at the end of the movie, you know that was it. He did it his way because he was the Bodhi softa bra. Hands down, no bullshit. That is the best elaboration on covering orter we've ever had in a year and a half. That was the best

appreciated so much, dude. So people, so people know you are still actively guiding like they can still They probably have to book in advance, but you are still doing the Mako thing on a weekly basis in season, right. Oh yeah, absolutely. And it's it's getting uh, I mean it's this year was probably my busiest year in a long time. Um. And uh, the fishing is great. The fish are big, They're getting bigger. It's the weirdest thing I've over the last ten years. I've seen an increase

in the size. It's crazy. Um. But yeah, but if people want to book with me, they got to get ahead of it because you know, I've got other stuff going on too, but I would say six months to book with me. Yeah, it's crazy because there's been kind of this resurgence of of I don't know if it's uh, you know, anglers wanting to target a big game fish on the fly ride, but I think they're discovering that they really don't have to fly. Well. Number one, COVID

pretty much shut shut everybody down for traveling. So they said, well, let's let's do the next best thing, or let's do a really good big game fish and let's go to San Diego because it's close, you know, and and so and that really sort of um kind of carved out a whole new clientele for me. So and this year has been insane. It's been absolutely right on, right on. Dude. I've known you for years. I've been saying I'm gonna

do this for years. I remember the first time I read about it was in Field and Stream, long before I ever worked there. And I have not gotten there yet. So hopefully the next hopefully, the next time I see it will be on your boat. But uh, in the meantime, man, I appreciate you coming out for covering water, best elaboration ever boating for the wind have you ever heard of a man guard, Jim, I haven't. It sounds like man bear pig from South That's That's exactly what came to mind,

was man bear pig. I looked it up and it's native to the Tigris and Euphrates river system in Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey. And it looks like a machiner or like a she fish, kind of big silvery thing. And dude, I'd never heard of it before. Um, perhaps I should do a finclips about those. But there's a there's a very short man guard Wikipedia page, like, there's not a whole lot there, though it does say that they eat birds, and if they'll eat that, I'm certain they couldn't resist

a spin walker from our sponsors thirteen Fishing. Is it a walking bait? Is it a prop bait? It's both, Jim with the blade uniquely positioned at the belly to create, as thirteen puts it, a beguiling sputter. How beguiling Joe it is? I also read that the man guard is in trouble, probably because the party boat fleet in Iran is just hammering them constantly. But let's talk about party boats for a second. You're a big fan of party boat fishing, and so am I. Um and on the water.

You guys recently launched a new video series called at the Rail, which I'm super jealous of because finally somebody has gone all in on a media property that just glorifies party boat fishing. Yeah, there's such a rich culture to party boat fishing that dates back to before World War One, and it's it's still such a vibrant part of the Northeast fishing culture, but you don't see much of it. You don't hear about it much in videos and YouTube videos and magazines, and it's all over the

country right like it's a big deal here. But I mean there's party boats on every coast, including the golf and this is the first time I've seen somebody just focus on that. Yeah. I've been party boat fishing since

my first ever saltwater trip. That was the first time I ever got out there on the you know, I went deep sea fishing on a half day boat out of Seattle City, New Jersey, and never owning a boat to this point, it's always my way to get out there and do the fishing I wouldn't be able to do on my own and there's a boat in the northeast for just about any type of fishing you want to do, from back bay fishing for flounder or fluke

to going out to the canyons and catching tuna. Yeah. Yeah, and I can tell you guys did a great job with it. Our mutual friend in your colleague got Anthony the chi Chi. There's one line in your In Your Porgy episode, I believe it was No Haddock episode, when you you said his lucky charm is actually lucky charms. It's a it's a lucky Charms cereal bar and you were like, that is the laziest lucky charm I have

ever seen in my life of all the things. It's like he was, He's like, I need a superstition, and uh, that makes sense, I need a lucky charm. He goes, well, party boats so they can also they can easily fix fomo, right like if they If you can't find a ride, there's always that option. However, you know, like the risk, and I think the fun of party boat fishing, of course, is that you don't know who you're fishing with. And I know over the years you and I have both

met some characters um and and party boat people. They tend to be good salt of the earth people. You seem like you have a thought on that. I've very rarely had an experience where I'm fishing next to, or fishing near or somebody who I would rather not be fishing near. Everybody's going out there with the same goal, have a good time, get some fish. It is you

don't run into too many jerks on the party boats. Yeah, I mean, you're right, man, Like, they're always just really good, down home people, kind of like the people Bruce Springsteen sings about you Springsteen fan, Jim. Of course, Joe. You couldn't grow up around New Jersey without being a Springsteen fan. Well, that's true, but like people think like born in the USA, came in the mail with samples of tide. That's not true. But yes, there's Jersey pride there and wouldn't you know it.

Someone sent me audio of Bruce at a recent Jersey show, and while he normally ran was about politics and ship at the beginning of his songs, he apparently decided to give a regional party boat report. Oh wow, hey, now wondering if you'll take a little trip with me? That's right to a little place called Asbury Park, New Jersey. You know, the big Mohawk was fishing about three miles off beautiful Asbury Park yesterday and they had Paul who

who keeper flute. You know. The other day I was talking to my old friend Tony, that Tony Tony from Point Pleasant, New Jersey. When Tony's not working at the Sestis factory, he likes to do a little fishing. I mean, heck, who doesn't. Right, Tony said he was out on the Gambler last week and he caught how hey, hi Hope keeper black sea bass. Doesn't that sound tasty, doesn't he?

You know what goes good with black sea bass? Tequila? Yeah, but you know, according to my buddy Lester, there's no hard alcohol allowed on the Sea Queen up here in Brooklyn. I know why I feel you, but old Lester said, you know what, I didn't need any liquor because I was feeling plenty high after catching who who he hope keeper Porties. This one goes out to Lester and all the boys at the lead taste testing facil Billion Yonkers.

I always remember to tip your mate, Oh hey, how I fished on most of those boats the boss is talking about you ever bring me into him out there, Jim, because on board, who knew maybe maybe this season? Well, I know it sounds he did a perfect job of describing like the occupations of several of the people you'll meet on a party boat. I particularly enjoyed the lead

taste testing facility guy. Anyway, let's move on from trying to win the pool with the biggest fish on the party boat to me trying to win the pool and fish news by catching a bigger, better news story than my co anchor, Hayden Sammock. Fish news. That escalated quickly. So I'm gonna do a quick bit of housekeeping here. I actually have a message, direct message from Mr Miles Nulty to all of you listening. And this is so perfect.

Hayden's already laughing. This is so perfect because in his farewell episode, Lance V The Great Lands V pointed out how badly Miles sucks at social media. So, like, if I may, right, most people know that you don't use your work email to like sign up for porn Hub premium or only fans or cat Toys monthly or whatever. Right, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, you know I

didn't really think about it too much. I should probably call some places, but yeah, I got you call the places you use your work email for too, in case you uh cut and run. Yeah, anyway, listen, So Miles used his freaking meat eater email to sign up for Instagram, and now he yet and now he doesn't work here anymore, and that email went away. This literally happened two days before our farewell show. So now he cannot get into his Instagram account to respond to all your lovely messages

and comments and well wishes. And he personally asked me to convey this to you so that nobody thinks he's just like a giant dick that's too good to answer, right, And I gotta say there is a possibility that by the time you guys are hearing this, this issue will have been resolved. But at last check in, like things were not looking good. Like he's working on it, but apparently he's like you know, Instagram, and nobody on Instagram is beating his pager back. Are all the range among

among startups? Oh my god? So hopefully that gets fixed. But but now you all know, there you go, message conveyed hating what's going on with you man, how you living this week? What you've been up to? Hey, dude, just been poking around the y'all elk woods there this season. Yeah, I saw your elk meat hauling adventures on the ground and that's great and all, but we need to get

you away from that. I mean, here at Bent we'll take a half day of trout and a trip to pizza, wings, steaks and things over a fourteen mile round triphike to help a buddy any day. Um, but I'm kiding, of course. Man. It's cool to see so many of my colleagues out in Montana putting arrows in elk, very good stuff, and I know what a challenge that is. Where I mean, so I've read I couldn't do it, but I hope you get yours. Man, you're feeling good. Are you gonna

get it done? Well? First off, it actually ended up being closer to oh dude, it is stupid brutal man. Uh. As soon as we shot those two elk man, we were like yes, and then we're like, oh, no, stupid brutal. I think I'll get it done. It's a lot like it's a lot like muskie fishing m in you know, the only way to get it done is like sheer volume of effort, you know, right an, Yeah, I we'll see what's up right on. So, how are you feeling about your news story this week? Don't worry about me, bro,

I got okay, good, all right fish news. Remember, folks, this is a competition. And at the end, Phil my wonderful, smart kind, charismatic boss. It's Joe's leadoff this week. So Joe, yeah, you had the honors in your inaugural run, but now it's my turn. So um, let's see. I've got a record fish story this week with a twist. But first I have to ask have you any experience catching Benito or False Avocore or a Little Tuny as they're better known from where we go from Yeah, a little tun No,

you know, I haven't personally. I've heard their riot Old Tommy are over at Orbits goes off about them on his podcast all the time. Man, he makes them seem fun dude, big fan yep. Yeah, but uh, you know before I made the move out was they were like super high on my agenda? Right? Um? I happen to know you, however, do have a lot of experience? Yeah? I love them? I love. The matter of fact, Albi's

season is just about to kick off here. Also a matter of fact, this week's guest co host, Jim Fee is an I'll be slayer and he sees them even sooner up on Cape Cod than I do in Jersey, so he's already getting his fix. Um. But where I live, these fish have this insane cult following. They only come inshore for a short time. They fight like hell, and of course like they're super popular with the Salty bro Bra fly crowd from step bro Bra. What was that

that clip? That that's that's from a trailer to a documentary called al or Nothing, which I highly highly recommend everyone looks up on YouTube. And I'll just say, long before any of you ever heard the name Bob the garbage Man, there was Shane Babcock, the world's greatest false albacore fly fisherman. Anyway, I digress. The point is that in the north right these fish are revered, but once you get south of North Carolina, they're they're pretty much

considered junk like, including in the Gulf of Mexico. There there a year round and they just tend to get in the way of the stuff guys really want to catch like tuna and kingfish stuff like that. Well, late this summer, Alabama Angler, I want to say it's it's probably pronounced Kyle, but there's an extra A in there, so it could also be Kale k A y l E. I'm gonna just say Kyle. Kyle Davis signed himself up for the Alabama Deep Sea Fishing Rodeo, which is I

understand it is a weekend long event. Now, what Davis wanted to catch were black fin tuna, And before I even got to the fish part, I was struck by a quote from Davis who said he was seventy four miles off in a one ft boat boat. I mean, dude, that's some cowboys ship right there. Boy, that's a brave dude. Yeah. Now I have no idea what he was running, but they had to be carrying extra and Yeah. And while that, while that sounds like crazy to non cowboy me, this

is also why I love you Southern golf boys. I mean that if you need fresh tuna, you'll just trap a drum a diesel to a rubber raft and get after it. And I respect that. Um. Anyway, so Davis he found his tuna but mixed in were bonita, which is very common. They go hand in hand, and I can tell you from experience. We all get crazy on the Instagram here when we land like a five pounder on fly in mont talk, that's nothing. In the Gulf, they're huge. Oh dude, they will break a nine weight

um and how huge, might wonder? Well? Davis ended up sticking a bobo that weighed twenty two pounds four ounces. But that number is technically inaccurate, and I'll get to that right, So a little twisty here, Um, you with me? Still with me? Hayden? Well, I mean you're talking to it totally, you know, neophyte in the in the bobo catching, don't you do for a trip home? Like in the

next couple of weeks. I'll make it happen. So anyway, Davis said they were keeping some of the benita they were catching, um and as soon as they hit the deck, they'd cut him in half because they'd end up right in the freezer back home to use on later trips for bait. Well, the benita they were catching were so big they decided to keep one to weigh in at

the rodeo. Now, I said that final weight was technically inaccurate because Davis and crew had stayed out fishing I'm thinking probably overnight, so it didn't hit the Rodeo scale until thirty six hours after it was caught, which means it likely weighed more than twenty two pounds four ounces. But even after losing some water weight, it's still qualified for an Alabama state record, beating the twenty one pound record that had stood since nineteen fifty six. So here's

the fun part. It took the Rodeo people a little time to figure out that this was a state record, and when they did, they immediately got in touch with Davis and said, hey, we're gonna need that fish, and he was like, hey, I already cut it in half and threw it in the Babe freezer right. So luckily he had enough photographic evidence that the fish will still

qualit five. But here's what I think is funny. While I'm sure Davis thinks it's cool to claim the record, he wasn't treating that fish any different than the thousands of other bonita he's probably whacked up over the years for bait, and I can almost guarantee between nineteen fifty six one, many, many many bonita bigger than twenty one pounds have been caught, but none of the people that caught them down in the Gulf off Alabama gave enough of a ship about them to think or care about

claiming a state record, you know what I mean? Okay, So I kind of love and hate this, uh for two reasons. First Off, I love that this dude is cutting up state record fish for bait. It's actually actually happened before. There's been stories of people like eating world records and ship Oh yeah, I mean you hear about him. But somehow, and I don't know why, it just makes

me happy. I guess it's. I guess it's because like in this era of like Lion class record goofball is trying to turn like anything into a record to have their name in the book somewhere. Ye. Like this speaks to like a a sort of like pure form of pursuit, you know what I mean. Said, Well, yeah, I call it this thing, but I'm trying to catch this thing. So this thing is now bait regardless of its you know status. Yeah that said. I kind of hate it

because it's just like the trash fish thing, you know. Yeah, false Albi's not that I know a lot about them are cool, Like they look cool, they fight hard, they burn drags, but everyone has collectively decided for some reason they're just like you know right now. I kind of got a theory about it. I found that, with like some exceptions like tarpan for instance, a lot of fish are labeled trash fish because of like perceived edibility. Uh do they do they just like taste shitty or well? Yeah,

And it's a it's a fair question. And I think a lot of the the lack of table fair opportunity to be with with Albie's um has created that that vibe you're talking about. And I got to be real honest, I've never eaten one. I've hacked up a lot of them, and I can tell you compared to like a skip jack tuna or some of the other lesser tunas, man like that meat is so red it's almost black, and you can just sort of smell the oiliness sort of mackerel uh scent that these fish have, which is why

they're such great bait. That said, every once in a blue moon, you'll see a piece of media pop up where like somebody claims that we're all crazy and they make like the best sashimi ever and I haven't tried it, but you know, you you'll see a video pop up or a catching cook where somebody's like, if you bleed him and you do this, it's the best ever. But man, I feel like if that were true, more people would have caught onto that, you know what I mean, Like

you just don't. It's just not working. And like skip Jack's, they're kind of like subpar, but they're way better than a false apocor if I catch skippies, I'll keep some if we're you know, but I don't know, man I I just think that's that's what it is. They just are such a strong flavored fish. Yeah, I mean that would be difficult for me, you know. I'm I'm a huge sushi guy. Man sushi and sushimi until it comes

out my eyeballs. But I am not a fan of like oily fish, like mackerel, like totally turns me off, right right. We're gonna explore a lot more of that and when the new season of B Side drops with our first episode, oily fishes is kind of like the deal. But um, I would try it. I should. I should, Just to say that I did it. Maybe this season I'll bleed one out and just and just see. Dude, Well, when I come down there and we go, i'll be fishing.

Let's do it. But you can eat all you want, all right, speaking of eating all the fish you want, yeah no, no, Tom's all you can eat fish bag. My story comes from the otter side of the pond in the UK. I have to I don't like it, but I can't not like it because I appreciate you trying to spin these It's great. Actually I love it. Forget. I just said that, it's just keep being you. So a UK couple is what I can only describe as deeply deeply disturbed over recent developments in their backyard pond.

Uh Eric and Linda Mackenzie have recently discovered that something had invaded their pond and has just been absolutely destroying the prized fish that they stocked, like some fifteen years ago. Oh, I can already guess what the prized fish are, but I will let you continue. Basically, during their daily stroll around the fishing grounds or whatever British folks call a walk around a pond, they kept finding carcasses of these

prized fish. So I guess they had like a buddy with a trail cam or something, because they slapped one up and immediately found out what was killing their fish. And he guesses, I'm gonna say otter. Yeah, so you already forgot that you made the otter pun It wasn't a big otter. Yeah. Uh. And they figured that the otter has marked like ten fish worth an estimated five thousand pounds, which is I don't know the exactly version, right,

but that's a ship ton of American dollars. I was gonna say, I'll take your word for it, because I don't know math or currency either. Um. I I know enough about British fishing culture to to understand the way things work there, so I know where we're going, um, and I know that that certain things that we we wouldn't pay a shiny nickel for worth that kind of money there. So continue on. Let's hear what they lost

for five thousand pounds. Well I'll get to that, but to continue the story, these folks are like are pissed. They're they're like really really pissed. And you know how a lot of times, like the matter, folks get the dumber, they get absolutely absolutely anger just like completely shuts down your brain function. Yes, well, Mr mackenzie said, and I quote, we would like to see some restriction on their breeding

before the fish stock in our rivers is depleted. So wait, he's talking about wild rivers, but the problem here happened in his private pond. Yeah. Yeah, it's obviously reductionist. This guy is clearly taking a personal problem existing in an artificial environment that he created and applying his experience to the entirety of the UK to be fair, is also mostly an artificial environment. We have some listeners across the pond Man that they're like still trying to figure out

if they like you or not. You gotta be careful, although I'm I'm gonna make fun of them later in this show too. So sorry. I'm a big fan of your chalk streams anyhow. I just wish I was allowed to fish some and had the money to do so.

I showed up there. Yeah, only bamboo anyhow. When I read I'm sorry guy, anyhow, when I read that quote, my first thought was that there was like some organization that was like doing some vigilante reintroduction type stuff with these odors, you know, maybe breeding them and dumping these captive bread otters into the river. Uh, that's not the case.

In the research I did, Eric specifically mentioned a UK conservation organization called the Otter Trust, So I checked out their website thinking that I was going to see something about a breeding program. Um, and there is absolutely no

mention of a breeding program. And further research, the only thing that I could really find was that there was a ten year period from like the mid eighties to the mid nineties where about two hundred individual otters were released at a time when there were very very few otters. So it's not like we're dumping thousands of hosto like waters. Ye. So yeah, again, all that to say that there's no vigilante otter reintroduction going on. It's like a vigilante uh

cat the cat. It's a cat who is vigilant that Gordon, Okay, And that means or at least it sounds like the Mackenzie's are somehow suggesting that we limit the otter's ability to breed in the wild. Yeah, man, And so yeah, it's it's it's just a case of two people like going all that wild stuff that's happening out there, we need to do something about that immediately, Yeah, because I like the stuff that I got going on in my pond. Um. Now, I have no idea how they'd go about limiting, like,

you know, the otters breeding in the wild. But if they do start some sort of anti otter anti breeding coalition, I'd like to formally suggest the slogan no more otters. We'll make surets to that right right along with my dolphins T shirt. It's sort of the same thing, you know what I mean, Like we have having a lot

of fun with the dolphins, but same deal, man. I mean, unfortunately this happens too often where you know, you see this with like it's kind of like where I live and where you're from, like people like I think the deer are pets and things and anything we can do to protect the deer from this or that, you know, shutting down bare hunts to protect this and protect that.

It's like you just can't meddle that far with the wild man, Like sorry, And I know who even has the time to suggest all these things or right to whoever they have to write to, expecting people to what jump up and start what trapping otters or even caring

or looking a gets similar to snake heads. They're everywhere now, and like every once in a while, some one will pop up in a new place and people like called d ep, like get down here right now, and it's like, dude, they're not gonna like they're not the Ghostbusters, you know what I mean. I just swoop in and like set up the trap like for slimer, you know. So it's it's just lunas. Like you said, people get dumb when

they're mad. Yeah, I mean I guess you've got to give the British folks points for consistency, because this is like the most hilariously colonialist solution to a native species living the way it has forever. Yes, you know, yes for millennia. Yeah, and and and I have one more

quote that's just kind of unbelievable. So for folks who suppose love nature, as is mentioned many times in the articles I've found about this prized fish massacre, I can't imagine two folks being more out of touch with reality. Eric Mackenzie says, and I quote, we enjoy our walks around the surrounding countryside and seeing the local wildlife, but feel strongly the more should be done to control these animals. And take responsibility for their actions. Like what does that

even mean? I really want to know, Like, what kind of weird British solution Eric isn't visioning? Here? Are we going to a point an otter lord? If that paid well, I'd go over there and be the otter lord, you know what I mean? Try something different for a little while. I don't think it'd pay very good. It might get you on the chalk streams, though, you know what I'm saying, Like, maybe that's a perk of the job, you know, it could. Uh. Now, I'm sure you've noticed I've been referring to the otter

victims as surprized fish. Joe, ask me what kind of fish these are. I'm just gonna guess. I'm gonna say their carp because I know they're about some carp over there. They are grass carp, grass carp. That's interesting to me. I see. Now again, I'm not super fluent in the in the entirety of the carp scene there, but mostly what you see and what I know guys will spend big bucks on are the mirrors and the commons and the ones with the long fantails. I didn't even know

grass carp was a thing over there. I'm wondering if their native or invasive. Do you know, Oh, they are invasive for sure? Really yeah? Kind of the interesting thing about it is um there is, I believe is small, you know, population that can breed in the wild because of water temperatures. But for the most part, when you find grass carp in the UK, they're effectively sterile because the water temperature never gets to the point that they're

able to spawn. Got you. They're not even native in the UK, which I think kind of falls in line a little bit with the char story we discussed last week. Sure with native species, although obviously these aren't fish there otters um being extirpated in favor of imported and exotic species. Uh somehow, Like you know, people equate a better fishing opportunity to a better environment, and I just don't think

that that's true. No, you're right, man, Like grant, imported grass carp should not win out over cute, playful otters. I agree, very similar to the char deal. Uh, Phil, what do you feel like today? What kind of sashimi grass carp or false alvacore? I'm not sure. I would actually probably venture to guess that the grass carp might end up being better. Um, but that was a fun one. We're gonna hear from Phil. He's gonna judge us, Okay,

he's gonna to lay down the law. And then as soon as we're done, we're actually gonna do our first for official Nibbles and SIPs segment because I've asked for voice recordings from you guys, and boy are you delivering. Sorry Hayden, but I've got to give it to the Otter podcast host until you stop making these shitty puns, Joseph Mellie, you're the winner. Listen. All three of us can play music. And I'll be damned if our band name isn't going to be Vigilante Otto reintroduction. Catch us

on the event, Spotify playlist and probably nowhere else. It is of loneliness. Oh god, so Jim, I recently put out the call for our listeners to send me voice memos for a fresh segment. I'm calling Nibbles and SIPs and our audio engineer Phil. He doesn't care for the name. But that's too bad. Um, But but I told people you could send a comment, question, rant rave. These things could be done drunk or sober. Anything goes and I've

been getting some response. Yeah, nibbleson SIPs reminds me of what another one of our mutual friends, crazy Alberto Nie, used to say when he would describe how the trout we're feeding and he would call them kisses and slaps. That just reminds me that I gotta get Alberto knee on this show. Kisses and slaps. It could have gone either way, but I'm sticking with nibbles and SIPs. So anyway, So last week, my my inaugural nibble and Sip was

a fan telling me I mispronounced some hockey ship. So this week we have actually a very fun question from listener Noah Dodson. Here it is, Hey guys, So my question is I do a lot of fishing with my dad. We go to a local lake for a lot of large mouth and small smallmouth bass. Well, my dad's about seventy one years old and the only bait he use a soft plastic worms, most time in colors that the companies don't even make anymore. He uses these alongs with

copious amounts of what he calls monkey pee. What can I do to convince him to diversify his bait? Pile. There is so much to say about this. Where do we start? Yeah, so I've never heard of that particular fish attracting. Uh, monkey monkey, you're referring to the monkey pee. Yeah, so I was taken aback by the monkey pee. I've never heard of it either. Um. Now, we we were both accurate in assuming that it is in fact a cent attracting, but I was. I was thinking it's got

to be homemade, like some backwoods homebrew or something. But I followed up because I had to know. According to know, a monkey piece smells like garlic, and his pops puts it on on every bait, and it is not homemade. He bought it many many years ago, which makes me wonder did he buy it by the case or does he just not fish that often? Because how long can a bottle or two from the eighties or whenever last

if he literally puts it on every bait. No, not that you describe it like that reminds me of the old There used to be aerosol cans of fish spray, you remember those, And they would smell like, oh god, they would always blow up eventually like if you left them in Oh my god. That you're right I don't remember what they were called. Bang? Is that what they were called? Bang? Bang? Yep, there were all kinds of

things like that. They were the aerosol cans and they would always ooze if you left him in your tackle box. And then only the hardcore salty you guys are gonna remember this, But do you remember the freaking bait bombs. It was like a grenade, an aerosol grenade that you would shake and like pull the pin and drop down on a line to depth and it would just blow up in the middle of the water column and create like a huge cloud of bunker or mackerel oil. I

must have missed that one. That does not ring a bell. That's great, God, dude, you wouldn't have missed it if you were there when one blew up in the cutty cabin of my old pursuit, just because as it was overheated, I forget, it gets rather hot down there in the summertime, and like I didn't even remember it was in there, um and and it was. It was a bad, bad deal. Anyway. I would love to know the specifics um of Noah's dad's arsenal, because once again, if you can, if you

can really lean on discontinued baits and colors. These worms. He says, he's using mostly discontinued stuff. If you can do that for years and years, you gotta have one hell of a stash. Um And I don't know, it could also be worth a lot of money, Like he might have the only original power worms in crystal clear pepsi color left on the planet. Oh that's a that's a collectible item right there. I love crystal pepis. Did you love the real crystal pepsi? I thought it was gross.

They brought it back a couple of years ago, and I went on a mission to find it. I finally found out a Walmart two towns overly, Really I did? I did? It tastes terrible? It was horrible. So yeah, that that in pepsi COONa? Did you go looking for that with pepsicona? Was awful? That was really bad crystal clear for the wind. But I think to get to the root of the question, though, uh no, let me tell you a story about my dad, who is about

the same age as your dad. Like, I'll take him smallmouth fishing and I'll be catching fish on We'll just say a new age jerkbait, and I'll give the man the same jerkbait, but he doesn't feel like jerking it as hard as I am. He just wants to sit and relax. And I used to get frustrated, and now I say, you know what, man, here's an inline spinner just casting real and on days when his gooch level isn't turned up to full blast, he does just find that way and he's happy, like he doesn't need to

be the next KVD. Yeah, my dad always accuses me of giving a lure that I know isn't going to work like he he says, Oh, yeah, he thinks I'm giving him one that I'm not worried about losing. So are you sometimes? Did you got a whole arsenal of like nicely turned wood and special striper stuff, And will you give him like the beat up bucktail? Yeah, he's getting the old bomber, not the thirty dollar needlefish. But no, I know plenty of people like that where they I'm

I'm one of the people like that. Take the Cape Cod Canal, for example, which is just the road from me. You have these newer paddle tail swim baits that everybody uses. I would much rather throw a bucktail and I will watch all the people around me catch the fish on the paddle tail swim baits, and I will at a certain point after like three fish, it's too late to change. After watching people catch three fish, you can't change. Now we've got to prove the point. I gotta be like, well,

this is just good. If I changed after the first one, it's okay. But after three I'm like, oh no, now now I'm riding this one. Yeah. Man, Like at that point, you've just got to stick to your guns. Like I I totally get what you're saying. Um, But I think another point here is like why you got to change the man's program at seventy two years old, Like if he wants to fish the old stuff, like no, I just let him. Just let him do it, Like he doesn't need to diversify his bait pile, which I found

it being a weird term. It's like financial or something, isn't it diversifying bait pile? Um? And I mean, if he's catching fish, right, even more reason to just leave the man alone. Like I've found over the years that if someone is receptive to learning what I have to teach, like they're excited about it. I really enjoy that. I would rather see them catch the fish than me catch the fish. But if they're not, I just stopped being concerned about that person and focus back up on me

catching fish. Like you lost your chance, you know what I mean? Exactly, Yeah, I'm perfectly content using the lure that's catching. I don't need you to use it too, so exactly it's my lure anyway. No, that was a really fun question, man, I do appreciate it. Um. I guess if you still insist on on modernizing your old man, you could throw all his ship out and replace it with spy baits and and top water bats or something he'd love. A sure, he'd love a good top water

bat lauer, perhaps a top water snake. Um. By the way, No, it just got himself some swag for that. And you can too. If you record a voice memo and it ends up being played on this show. Surprise me and you can send those two bent at meat eater dot com or you can send him via d M to my Instagram account. Either way, tell me something. So we are just about out of time here, but I've actually got a fitting end of the line. Segment this week.

It's sort of ties back to Noah's question um, because it's a great example of a lure that has It's got many alternatives, but the O G. Striper guys want the O G version. So Jim, you're a striper guy of the highest caliber. But without giving away the name of the lure, if I said sand deal teaser invented in England, would you know what I was talking about? I would know exactly what you're talking about. It's going to be a pretty heavy duty of resistant to bluefish teeth,

perfect imitation of a sand deal, nice kicking tail. It is definitely this one, unless it's the other one. Let's find out. Well, that's not loud enough. Here's a short list of destinations that salty angler's dream of visiting. Vanawattu in the South Pacific, the Great Barrier Reef, the Say Shells, Hawaii, Cabo San Lucas believes, the Florida Keys. Now, in case you missed it, what did not make that list was England.

I mean they saltwater fish over there, right, But when I think of coastal fishing in England, I kind of think, man, it would suck to be a salty eye in England. They chased like congareels and dog fish, pollock or haddock or something. I mean, basically, they're a list species. Are all the ship we shake off the line over here

in the Northeast. Now that said, one might assume that there couldn't possibly be some brit made lord that's better or more original than what a salty Americans came up with. But that's wrong. Red Guill Loures ever heard of the company? If you don't chase straight bass on the beaches of the New are at these strong chance you haven't. But red Gill is to England what companies like Arbigast and

Smithwick were to the US. Red gills started in nineteen fifty in the Cornish fishing village of Mevagissi in southwest England. The original red gill lure was designed by Alex Ingram and it was actually way ahead of its time. The red gill mimics a sand deal, which is a common bait fish species found in the North and Middle Atlantic. Pretty Much every inshore species that lives where sandials lives

eats them starting from the back. The red gill actually has a paddle tail, which wouldn't become common on other lures for many many years. That paddle tapers into the rest of the tail, which is ribbon thin, until it meets the belly of the lure. The body widens out and finishes at a tapered very anatomically correct sand deal head. But here's what else made the lure so unique. It's not really a soft plastic Red gills are more rigid

maid from what feels more like vinyl. Yet despite that rigidity, the taper still allows that thin paddle tail to kick and flutter. Red gills also have a hollow channel that runs from the nose to the belly. In a way, it's designed kind of like a tube fly. You wouldn't put a red gill on a jig head. Instead, you'd thread your line through the bait, tie the hook to the tag end, then draw the line back through the nose until that hook seats perfectly in the red gills belly.

Now we got sand deals over here too, and during the fall they're inshore migration often collides with the fall striper migration to mimic this forage. There are plenty of sand deal imitations on the market, but back in the day. The only option old timey surfcasters really had where slim metal lures and plugs. But sand deals can be very

small and to steel phrase from the fly crowd. Matching the hatch precisely can be really important, but delivering something the true size of a small sand deal fifty feet out past the waves that's pretty challenging. At some point in history, likely in the fifties or sixties, smart surfcasters realized that a red gill could be rigged ahead of their metal lures and plugs as a teaser via a

dropper loop on their leader. The primary lure now provided the umph for a proper distance cast, but the red gill matched that hatch, and because red gills weighed pretty much nothing, they also didn't affect the action of the main lure, essentially allowing anglers to present a buffet of forage size options in a single retrieve. That rigid construction also made red gills extremely durable and able to withstand

season after season of abuse. Thanks to the Internet, red gills are a bit easier to get ahold of today, but for many years they were not. Select shops on the Striper Coast carried them, but they were a bit of a secret weapon, kind of a hot commodity. I ended up with a handful in the early two thousand's because the magazine I was working for was running a piece about vintage striper lures and had them shipped straight across the pond to us. And I still have most

of them. They're tattered, scraped up, but in my opinion, red Gills are still the best sand deal teaser you can use. There are plenty of US made knockoffs and other options, but none I trust more than the original red Gil. And believe me, there are days when your teaser is more important and catches a lot more fish than your primary lure. Also, I love you England, and I was just kidding earlier. One of these days I'll pop over for a pint and to catch some of

your conger eels and dog fish. So that's it for this week. Remember if your dad wants to dribble monkey piss all over his helicopter lures, just let him. The British invasion of striper lures only included one bait, and therefore was a very small invasion. Springsteen probably hogs the back corner of party Boat, and Jim Fee will just out fish him from the front. I don't know about that. I might outsing him. I'd love to see it either way, outsing him or out fish him. Huge thanks to you

Jim for co hosting this week. Um you can find him on the Graham. You should. He's at James t Fe and go watch on the waters at the Rail if you love the party boat scene. Also, if you want to hire Bruce Springsteen or Raylioted to do your fishing reports, you need to check out at Para Denoia on Instagram. Keep all those salming items, awkward moments, voice memos, all the stuff I usually ask for. Uh, just coming

to Bent at the meat eator dot com. Keep using those degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags, and finally, don't forget that the easiest way to cure fomo is to just never look at social media or listen to phishing podcast Little Unlet Right, Love Love