Ep. 36: Peanut Bunker And Foosball

and welcome to Bent the Fishing Podcast. That just got a couple of stripers, will be bringing in for dinner. Won't be long and otherwise haven't seen anything yet. I'm Joe Surmelli Ah, and that was a solid, solidly obscure as well Jaws reference. They're well done, my friend. I don't know, I don't know where you're going with it, but it was it was great. I liked that good. Well, it's it's actually one of my favorite lines in the

whole movie, and it slips past many radars. It's like a it's a quiet sleeper, but but it's not taking a shark fishing. I'm actually using that to take a striper fishing today. Stripers. Yes. Uh, if i'm you already took us, you already took us Mahi fishing in Jersey this week. Settle down there, guy, bring it down a notch. I do hope, seriously, I hope everyone listening has already watched episode one of B Side Fishing on Meteor's YouTube channel.

If not, go watch it. It's amazing, you're missing out. Yeah, but of course you guys watched. Of course they did. Man, I hope furse they watched it. These are my people. Uh seriously, though, huge thanks to everyone who did tune in to B Side Fishing this week, and if you didn't, per chance, just go find it as soon as you're done listening to Ben. Okay, I appreciate it, and I gotta say it feels good to be back in front of a camera while holding a fishing rod and also

editing video again. I get to cut B side, which is super fun and I'm proud of it and I love doing that. No, you should be. It's it's it's very very well done. And uh, it's it's taken. Let's take a little longer than we want to do to get you bringing another show out, but it's here. Everyone can just settle down and got it happened. I promised it would. And I gotta say, striperfishient seems like a fitting theme for this week, considered the B sides all

about like scenes. It's all about like fishing scenes, and fishing culture is more than the specific fish. And I'm I'm fascinated by the stripers scene. I don't know as much about it firsthand as I would like, partially because and I'm ashamed of this, I've never caught one, but I'm I'm interested like it. It has my attention now. I I know you haven't caught one, but you know that's okay, And hopefully I'll be the one to change

that lack of stripers for you at some point. Well together, But I think one of the reasons we get along so well is that we both have a deep appreciation of of sort of niche fishing scenes and cultures, even if we don't have much experience within them. Right I I have literally fish for West Coast steelhead one time in my life for about three hours and I caught nothing. But I'm I'm still very intrigued by the West Coast steel Sea and and the people in it. You know,

very very much. So what we're doing this week, which we haven't really done before, is going all in on an entire scene. And it's not about the fish. It's about a fishing culture. And the striper scene is very near and dear to me because that's that's when I do happen to be a part of. Well, I mean, did you like write a book about it or something? I mean, it seems like sort of like something you

might have some familiarity with, sort of sort of. I wrote The Complete Guide to Surf Casting, and I joked that I did that when I was twelve, Like it feels that long ago now, like it was so many years ago. Um. However, I'll go on record and say that what the publisher that book wanted was a one oh one style book. So it looks at surf casting in a very broad view and and touches on a

lot more than striper's. But I lay no claim now, nor have I ever laid claim to being some kind of stripers surf sharpie or like the hardest of the hardcore, because I'm not. But I I surf fished my ass off for many years, and you know, did rub elbows with a bunch of guys that I can it are the Greats, one of which basically prompted the entire theme of this show. That's true, just so you guys get a window into how this all works. Like we have a conversation and they're like, hey, we should make a

show around that. And yes, in this particular case, I got to sit in on that conversation and and I kind of felt like the geeky science kids showing up for basketball practice. But I learned a lot. Like I wasn't on the inner circle there, but I was fascinated him. I heard, I'm glad you were there. It was fun. Yeah, and we're gonna share. We're gonna share an abridged version of that discussion in our Smooth Moves segment where we let guides and captain's talk about dumb or otherwise hilarious

things that their clients have done. And this one it's a little longer than normal, but so is last week's. So I mean, we're just just we're playing around with these We're trying to give these stories a little more room to breathe and see how that works and let us know what you think. I should also preface this by saying I personally know what it takes to like heard and wrangle and babysit anglers when you're just standing

in a river. And I cannot imagine having to guide people, like especially rookies, in the places and situations that Bill Wetzel goes. Why why so joining us today on smooth moves? Uh, somewhat of a legend in my area, Bill Wetzel is here with us. And Bill, you are like the dude in the Northeast surf scene. Are you not, like kind of like the Godfather? Would you call yourself the Godfather? No, I'm just a fisherman. I've been doing it a long time,

you know, just a fisherman like anybody else. You know, my my talk is my home like anybody else. I just know more than everybody else exactly. But I mean be that as may you're you're the guy behind surf Rat's ball. I mean, you know, everybody whose surf fishes from Massachusetts, New Jersey knows who you are and why I'm so excited to have you on because we've had so many different kinds of guides offshore, fly guides on,

some with moves. But I mean, you people pay you to take them surf fishing, and like not on a quiet beach somewhere, like you are the guy who will take people to fame spots like the Montalk Rocks big league surf fishing, where you're swimming out to rocks in the dark, crashing surf, dangerous situations. So I figure you had to have seen some shit in doing that for how long has been twenty two years? You told me something like that, twenty two years and you believe people

freaking pay me for this? I do you know? I'm yelling at him, I'm screaming at him, get off the rock, get on the rock, and they yeah, well, And so I have to ask because I've I've I've played this game. I grew up around here, Like you know, how do you vet somebody who who who comes to you and is looking to be guided, like knowing what they're gonna get into? Is there like sort of a process for like, yeah, this guy can probably hang this guy. I don't want

anything to do with what what do you do? Well? You know, the phone rang, so like if you get somebody's booking, the phone rings, and the first thing I asked them how long you've been fishing? And then I'm like,

how's your agility? How old are you? You know? All those questions and they're like, oh you know, um, I'm like, and then if you want to book a trophy trip, my standard question is can you stand on a rock about a hundred fifty yards out into the water in the middle of the night with a thirty knight wind coming in your face six ft sets pounding on you. And if your answer is no, then you can't do a trophy trip, but you can do a regular trip, you know, so you know, and then and then I'll ask,

I'll ask. You know, the equipment questions are big. You know, what kind of equipment do you have? What kind of line do you have? Uh? I don't know. Let me go, let me go check my line. If you got to check your freaking line right away, I know that you know you're we're gonna be doing some soft core stuff, you know what I mean, We're not gonna be out

on the freaking rocks. Most likely, I will push your ass hard if if if I feel that you're capable, I will push your ask even at my age, I will still push your eggs even if you're twenty two years old. This sounds more like a personal training session than a fishing trip. That's like, that's what I'm here. I got speaking of this, I got a quick story if you want to hear, that's what you're here for. So I just I just thought, it just popped in my mind. So I used to take this guy out.

He was from France all the time. He's a good guy. Loved him. It booked me several times. This is many, many years ago. I was forty three at the time now in fifty six. So one night we had a northeastern rolling and it was blowing like I don't know, like get forty five knots here and you know, pissing

rain New Moon. It's like one o'clock in the morning, and we're getting ready and I don't know, if you're familiar with the south side of Montalk, yeah, yeah, So we're going into the south side and not mont Talk with like a forty five not northeast winds huge. The water is like, you know, I don't know, like six to seven ft, you know. And uh, we're getting ready and he goes, hey, Bill, how old are you? I got three forty three. That's both I can't believe you're

like an old man. He was like in his twenty I'm like, oh yeah, mother. I was like, I'm gonna show you how old I am tonight. I didn't say that, but in my head, I just like snapped, Man, I freaking snapped, and I took him out, and uh, you know, I'm gonna be I'm gonna I said to myself, I'm gonna be aggressive as I possibly can. I'm gonna do exactly what I would do personally. So we start walking out. I can tell he's behind me. He's like, you sure this is all right? Bill? You gotta realize it's it's

in the middle of night. It's a new moon. So on top of the rain, it's pissing rain, on the top of the big northeast winds in the big water it's completely black because it's the new moon on top of it all, you know, so you can't see anything. He's going, Billy's sure about this. I'm like, yeah, can get your ass out here. We're going. So and we get halfway out. We're about fifty sixty yards out and there's peanut bunker everywhere. Man, Peanut bunker getting washed off

the reef into the deeper water. And I'm just like bugging and that just like pushed me even harder. So I'm like, so I just kept going and going and going. I see him behind me, and this is the same damn spot on the northeaster. I almost lost the customer. So uh so we were out there and we didn't we we're not getting ship. And I'm like screaming, you know, through the fruit, through the roar and everything. I can't

believe we're not catching I just can't believe it. This is like, I don't know, like mid October, and we were out there in the surf, I guess for an hour and a half or so. You know, we walked back, we started walking back. I'm like, all right, next spot, we're gonna go on the south side again. We're gonna walk about a mile in He's hour and a half. Dude, He's like, I'm done, man, I'm exhausted. Oh yeah, I

dropped him off. I went fishing. You know, I don't know, you know, I don't know if he booked me after that night again. You know, I mean we were he always booked me. He was good. I mean, we were booking like, I don't know, seven or eight trips a year with him. I think he'd moved though. I think he went to France or something. Really nice. Guy, Did you catch anything when you went back out by yourself? No,

I walked. I walked. I walked about a mile and a half mile and a half I went way back in, and I'm like, oh, man, it's the perfect conditions, you know. I went to a really risky spot, especially in that uh and with my waiters in a wet suit, and uh, I didn't catch anything that whole night. Man, It's bait everywhere too. I still you know those kind of nights haunt you, man. Yeah, yeah, I thought that was gonna

go another way. I gotta admit, I thought it was gonna be like you dropped him off and then you went out and just wailed on him. Well, I've done that too. Does that happen often, even if it's not bad blood in the beginning, Like, do you just take guys out frequently at night and who are just like I can't do this? I mean, does it happen if yeah?

Oh yeah, yeah, So like I'll take I'll take a guy out and we'll get out in the rocks, and the first thing I tell him, especially if I know, you know, they're not they might not be capable, and it's their first time. I mean, you got to realize it's like eleven o'clock, twelve o'clock, one o'clock in the morning, and I've already Usually with a guy like that, I've already went through the steps and went through the easy stuff, and now it's time to get out in the rocks

to you know. And I'll say, you know, if you get out there and you can't do it, you know, just let me know. We can go somewhere else. I always tell them if you're uncomfortable, and they'll say, Bill, I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. I'm just let let a couple of waves hit you, you know, And if they fall down, it's a good thing. If they like get knocked off their rock and fall down, as long as they don't get hurt, it's a good thing because now you're wet,

and you know, you know what it feels like. I mean, that's part of my talking. You can get freaking knocked down and once in a while you gonna get hurt. Not often, hopefully. We've talked about wet suiting and rock hopping on this show, and this is a very foreign world to Miles. So like, now that you're hearing this, like you like, do you still want to do this? You want to do this? And this is this sounds like it's exactly up my alley. I'm I'm all about it, man.

I've I've almost killed myself over way smaller fish than that. So it's the best man brother. Well, but hopefully, I don't know, you'll get you'll get some calls from this show from Iowa and Ohio and they'll be they'll be racing out for you to yell at them. I would be great. I think we have a lot of massacrests that listen to the show. It would be I don't really yell at them. I just I'm yelling. You know, it's always it's always windy, there's always serf. I'm just yelling.

So so here's another one. Here's another quite for you man. Like you know, in a guide game, so often you know it's the guy's job to untangle your nuts and tie on your ship and this that and the other thing. But when you're putting a guy on a rock here and you're not and you're not like right next to the dude, how does that work? Like what if dude, fires went off, and it's like, screw no, man. I mean that that. You know, the older I get, the

harder it gets, you know. I mean sometimes I've taken out two guys and I have one guy on this rock and and one guy on that rock, and I'm in this I call guide rock all the time, because I get the shittiest rockets, you know, like that big and I got both feet on it, and I'm like in my fifties, you know, and uh, you know, the one guy have his freaking he's all tangled up or he snagged on something, and and so then I have to get down off my rock in the surf, you know,

way out in big water or light water, whatever it is, and go untangle that guy. And meanwhile I got the guy on my right hand. Oh bill, Bill, I got on a fish or oh my god, I got a not. Now I've got two guys. I'm going back and forth in the surf between the two guys. Now, I know I look like I'm a fat guy and couldn't do that, but I trust to trust me. When I'm in the surf, I'm a different person. Man. I hope you guys found

that as entertaining as we did. And while we don't normally plug websites on this show, if you're one of those masochists and you want the real Montalk surf experience, surf Rat's ball dot com, that's where you'll find Bill and not just to book them, because the guy is also just a wealth of surf casting info. And and let me stress, what you're booking here is truly an experience, right, I know, like we say that about a lot of booking,

book your experience, experience. It's an experience. Strong chance you will catch some bass with Bill one way or the other. But like you, you book that for the whole show, not just the fish. You know what I mean. I mean it seems like you book it the test yourself. Can I can I hang with this guy? I want to? I'll it seems like my kind of jam, to be honest,

And I can see you doing this. Yeah. Like part of the reason I say that is I imagined that whole late night rock hopping is a pretty solitary game. Like it's It's very different from packing a boat with buddies or setting up next to each other in a run. And I do like the social aspect of fishing. But to me, there's something about that solitary, really driven type

of fishing that that attracts me. Yes, and you and you're absolutely right, which is what makes Bills seeing you know, his gig kind of unique because really it's not a social thing. You know, on the beach in the middle of the day, with the truck out there and your buddies. That's one thing that the dot the drilled down kick out to a rock stand on a rock Um, it's not a social thing at all. You might show up with a buddy, but you might not see him again

until you're both back at the truck hours later. You like hardcore surf fishing in Montauk and Block Island. It's a very me against nature kind of deal. But Bill has has somehow made it work as a guide gig and like for a long time, like he's been doing this a long time though I don't imagine he's getting like a lot of corporate bookings, you know what I mean, Like where the entire the entire I T staff shows

up to fish with Bill. You know a thing you can do do The entire I T staff might show up, but only half of them would still be around like when you dragged shovel on into the bar at the end of it, like you might have Psnutrician there. That's Darwinism,

isn't it. Survival of the fittest? You know, need to we needed you need to scale down your I T. Department a little bit, you know what I mean with Bill, But speaking to bars, we are going to stay in Montalk for just a little bit longer and we're gonna scope out where many of the striperman in what is arguably the officiest town in the Northeast go for SuDS.

Also keeping up with storytelling here, uh, this week's that's my Bar nomination and background is being brought to us by none other than Bent correspondent Captain Zach hammer Miller. We're just gonna kind of stay out of this one and just let him throw down because this joint holds

a special place in his heart. Best God damn Bartender from Tim buck to to Portland's Maine Portland argument for that matter, This is Captain Zach the hammer Miller throw down fishing charters, And I am here to tell you if you were ever fortunate enough to roll through mont Talk a k a. The surf fishing capital of the world that you have to stop at one of the best bars I've ever been to in my life called Liar Saloon. It has everything you want in a little

crappy dive bar at the end of the earth. It has a jukebox you could still play Pantera on a foosball table that sometimes eats your coins, and some rickety bar stools, and some very very scary bartenders. For instance, the first time I was going to Liars, it was about two am, and we were stumbling up from our motel just down the street, and we heard it was

the only place that was open in town. And as we made our way through this giant dirt parking lot, there was a bunch of people on this wooden ramp that leads up to the bar, and they were outside smoking and having a drink and just hanging out. And when we made it halfway up the ramp, all of a sudden, this dude comes flying out of the door, hits the railing and falls down, and I'm like, holy

sh it, what is going on here? So the dude gets up, and all of a sudden, this like seventy or eighty year old lady comes around the corner with her fist cocked back all the way to Japan, saying I'll give you another one if you come back here again. The kid keeps talking his ship, and the lady punched

him square in the freaking face again. It was absolutely unbelievable, And from then on, every time I'm up there, they could have all my money, they could have all my time, they could have all my lies, they could their foosball table could eat all my coins, and their jukebox could take all my tokens for Pantera? What else do you want in a place that looks like it's better situated with Mark Wahlberg sitting at a bar in the perfect storm, then, liars salut, I feel like that was if b Arthur

had a role in Roadhouse. That's how it would have gone down. Yeah, man, I want to drink there. I you can't make that kind of stuff up. I want to go. I want to drink there, and I want to go with Zack. Yeah you should. I mean he only drinks bush lattes, so I don't know if they serve that, but that that's yeah. But you're right, it's

like it's like Roadhouse meats Golden Girls. Um, and of course I've been there and it's a super cool spot for sure, very iconic and very different from the wine bars and like tapas restaurants in the nearby Hampton's Like it's it's a cool spot. I'll just assume there's some level of exaggeration in that story because it's just that one probably, um, But it's based mostly on facts. So anyway, speaking of facts, we're about to throw some at you

in this week's much anticipated fish News. Fish News that escalated quickly. Hey, so you know we already told you how pumped we are about b Side Fishing having finally dropped this week. But up if yeah, if you're a fan of episode one, and I hope you were, um, and you don't, as in, do not feel like waiting for the other episodes to roll out over the course of the next month, we can actually give you a secret code to watch them all right now, So grab

a pencil and a post it note. The code is up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, be a start, of course, I'm kidding. That's that's just the code to get an instant thirty Lives and Contra on Nintendo. But you already knew that assume you knew that. Of course I did, except except you forgot the select button select. So even if that was the code, it wouldn't have worked worked at all. But we we actually

do have a secret code that absolutely will work. Uh. Mediator just launched a newsletter called Fishing Weekly with Joe Surmillian crew. I guess I'm in the crew. And if you signed up for it, if you guys sign up for it, we will send you a link to watch every single season one episode of B side Fishing right this minute, right now. You get them all. Yep, you are you are the main guy in the crew, and

that is all correct. Uh. And look, not only will signing up for our newsletter keep you plugged into all the cool new fishing ship we're doing a Mediator um, but you can consider this like a friendly email directly from me, your buddy Joe. See, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say dumb ship and write dumb ship. That will entice you to look at all the cool stuff that

we're doing. There might even be there might even be like a degenerate corner of sorts where I recommend some tunage, some jams, maybe tell you what I think you should be listening to if you want us to think you're cooler than we already think you are. So that's another thing it's gonna do. There. There'll be music. Joe is also gonna be pointing out all sorts of dumb, weird, non phishing related ship he finds on the Internet, which I get on a regular basis, So now it's it's

not just me. I'm always like if you watch that and you're like, no yet, I'm very busy. I haven't seen that, So they'll be the weird Joe ship. Plus, you know, we're just gonna use this as a space to keep you guys up to date on all the fishing content we're making, from new shows, two episodes of the podcast, to feature articles, all the good stuff, right, and all these gyms are gonna be exclusive to Fishing Weekly.

It's like it's like the newsletter for the degenerate club that we're all in and if you don't sign up, you'll you'll be stuck listening to Yellow Card with Phil behind the comic bookstore. And I'm sure anymore there's probably a newsletter for that crowd too. Yeah, Phil going down swinging on that, Phil, get that I'm not sorry, Phil, I got I got one more bit of housekeeping before

before we hit news. We we and I particularly got a lot of feedback about the debate that Joe and I did over birding and if it's lame or not, and a surprising number of you wrote in supportive birding and to criticize my lad cluster ability to argue in favor of its merits. Apparently I let a lot of people down there. Uh. I'm just gonna quote from one of my personal favorite emails that we got came from listener Katie Kilgis, and it was simply titled go birding assholes. Yeah,

this is a good one. This is a good one. Katie made some solid points, one of which being that I'm a dumbass because no one carries bird books anymore. They have apps for that because of course the du She recommended the Merlin bird i D which connects to Ebert, which is an international online database. Katie went on to say, quote Ebert is used by scientists all over the world to track migrants yearly from citizen scientists, one could argue Ebert is one of the greatest uses of citizen scientists

out there. Even kids can use it, get your head out of the water and look up just once in a while. It's lame, but so are people. And uh, can I get an amend for that one? For Katie on that one, hey, man, it was good. It was it was good. It was good. She I just want to point out that she ended with loved the podcast, like it wasn't a total take. It's like you guys

are kind of being MUCKs right now. I mean I think, like I like what you're doing, but like that was that was Yeah, So no, I very much appreciated that. Um is that all your housekeeping? That's all you got? Okay, So we can move on to our news data base, see what we do there, and then, as always, remember this is a competition. Miles and I do not know which stories the other guy is bringing to the table. When we are done, Uh, Phil, our engineer will declare

one of us a winner. You've already taken a shot at Phil today, but then I followed up and took another shot, so we're both kind of on like even the ground being in Phil's favor. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you do get to lead off, so have at it, man, fire away. I'm gonna I'm gonna lead with a story that's not exactly uplifting, because that's kind of my beat. I take the depressing ships, but it feels important, so

here goes. On March, leaks were discovered in a holding pool that contained about four hundred million gallons of wastewater from the Piney Point Phosphate plant in Manatee County, Florida. The league worsened over the following days, prompting fears of a containment wall collapse, which would have sent a twenty foot wall of water cascading through residential and commercial areas

UH and been a real bad deal. More than three hundred homes were evacuated, as well as the first floor of the county jail as emergency cruise first tried to shore up the reservoir, and after that proved unsuccessful, rushed to discharge the wastewater Crews avoided the potential catastrophe of

a breach reservoir and subsequent flooding. But now nearly three million gallons of wastewater have been flushed into Tampa Bay, and the obvious question on my mind is how's that gonna impact the marine ecosystem and the fishery and the fish of course, So the Florida Department of Environmental Protection has repeatedly said that the wastewater meets water quality marine standards for discharge except for elevated levels of nitrogen, phosphorus,

and pneumonia. And when I talked to Chris Whitman, co founder of the Florida based nonprofit Captains for Clean Water, he told me, quote, that's like getting pulled over and telling the cop you were meeting the standards for legal driving except for being drunk, speeding, and having a suspended license. So far, no evidence of fish or manatee kills have been reported, but the danger from this particular kind of pollution emerges in the long term, right because we've we've

done we talked about this for in past episodes. We've covered the impacts that elevated levels of nutrients like phosphorus and nitrogen are having on marine ecosystems, especially in Florida. They're contributing to massive algae blooms, habitat instruction, fish kills, and and red hides like what happened in the Tampa Bay. Water Keepers estimate that this spill dumped the equivalent of one hundred thousand bags of fertilizer into the bay, which

is definitely not something this estuary needs. Tampa Bay, Tampa has actually been a relative success story over the past few decades in terms of dealing with nutrient loading. In the sixties and seventies, much of the bays marine habitat and seagratts were decimated by phosphate plants and sewage, but through a lot of work and a lot of money, more than forty acres of sea grass has been been rehabilitated,

and this event threatens to undermine all that recovery. Unfortunately, we're just gonna have to kind of wait and see what happens with this situation. It's not like a we we can't exactly predict what's going to happen, and we will follow up with you as we need to. But this incident caused me to look into something I'd never

even thought about before. Before this story broke, I gotta admit I didn't know anything at all about phosphate mining, and I certainly did not know that Central Florida is the phosphate capital of the world, producing one quarter of global supply. Oh I didn't know that either, right, No idea yeah, yeah, yeah, And like to be clear and fair,

we need fertilizer. Like fertilizer is necessary if we're gonna you know, feed the world and all all the things we need to do for producing plants, all that important ship. But this industry has a problematic track record when it comes to environmental impacts. In Florida, the process of phosphate mining, this is way dumb down, but it goes something like this, extract or from the earth, treat it with phosphoric acid to extract the useful phosphate. You're then left with a

whole lot of phosphogypsum, a radioactive waste product. And for every ton of the phosphate that you're hoping to get, you produce five tons of the phosphogypsum waste. You then pile that radioactive material into massive towers called jip stacks and cover them in water. The result is dozens of massive lagoons all over Florida full of radioactive water that also you know, happened to contain high nutrient loads and

heavy metals just for the electric spice. Sure, sprinkle it in little there and it turns out And this is this is a part that wasn't very actively covered in a lot of the news. What happened to Piney Point was it was actually kind of a best case scenario. The pond that failed is one of three ponds on that site of of the defunct phosphate mind that went bankrupt in two thousand one. And that pond that failed is by far the least toxic of the three because

it holds mostly seawater from a dredging project. If one of the other two ponds, which are full of jip stack waste, were to have failed, we'd be looking at a much more serious catastrophe. And just a couple of days ago, Governed the Santis announced a cleanup plan for Piney Point that could end up costing Florida taxpayers two hundred million dollars to to mitigate and put back together this mess left behind by industry. And that's just one

of many similar sites all over the state. And I'm gonna close this segment with a with a statement put out by Captains for Clean Water because I very much respect those folks and the work they do their locals, Floridians, fishing guides who who just now work trying to protect the resources and the fisheries around their home state. They're they're just good people. Uh, and they know more about this than a podcast host in Montana. So here here's

a quote from Chris Whitman to close it out. We need our state legislature to introduce meaningful policy that holds polluters accountable for environmental impacts like this. The Florida legislature has systematically dismantled regulations to serve and benefit special interests. These special interests, in this case phosphate mining, are profiting off of Florida's resources at the expense of our state, citizens and environment. They make their profits, exhaust the resource,

and then leave the mess to ax pairs. We have to see new legislation that prevents special interests from continuing this kind of bad business that exploits our state and citizens. I mean, I agree with all that, dude, And this is like a it's a it's another terrible scenario. But isn't it sad to say, Like I I hear this story and I'm like, man, this is just so Florida.

Like when I think of Florida over the last couple of decades, it's almost like, if it's not one thing, it's another like these poor guys are always just constantly fighting this battle YEP with with legislators and and just blind eyes being turned to just horrible shit happening to their ecosystems down there. And I had a long talk with Chris about this, and he made a lot of

really great points that didn't make another story. But the thing he kept kept hitting on is it's not the industry's fault, Like, the industry is not breaking the law right, the legislature is not forcing them to be held accountable. They're just doing what they should, just doing good business.

And it's it is, according to him, from his perspective, the responsibility of the legislature to enact laws that put these corporations in a situation where they have to be responsible for the forces them to do it the right way exactly. So, yeah, I know you're right. I get what you're saying. It's a tough spot because they're not breaking the law because the right law doesn't exist right essentially,

that's what's happening. It's it's not that different from you know, the big fight that Captains for Clean Water has been part of is the sugar cane industry. And he made a lot of comparisons between sugarcane and yeah, exactly for sure. For sure. Well, um, I'm I'm certain we're gonna have some follow up on this May. We even have Chris on at some point to still still sort of a developing story. But since we're talking about laws and Florida, that is just could not be a better transition for me.

We're gonna stay in Florida and we're gonna we're gonna stay talking about laws in a different way. I, on

the other hand, I have good news. Okay, Um, while Florida residents we don't know what is going to happen to Tampa Bay, you can finally sleep soundly again because after nearly a year on the LAMB, fugitive Daniel Arman Dares has finally turned himself into authorities, and as we all know, thanks to them never ending news coverage, Arma Dares is the criminal mastermind wanted for diving into the tank at the Gulf Coast town Center bass Pro Shops in May. I can feel the sigh of relief being

breathed around the country right now this this story. So according to this story, this is from news press dot Com. This incident occurred on May Arman Dares has said repeatedly this is this is this is what he says. It just kind of happened. Oh so that was the reasoning, as if to suggest the mood just struck him, and per the story, he uh swam across the huge tanks expanse, hauled himself out and then ran dripping way out of the store. Okay, So I really enjoyed this one by that,

So it's just going to get better. So I think it's safe to say that the twenty eight year old armada Is thought this would just be like ha ha funny. But no, like the authorities wanted him and they weren't going to just like they weren't gonna let up, right, And he was quickly identified as the tank jumper on the Facebook page Southwest Florida Crime Stoppers and charged with trespassing. But instead of turning himself in, he just ducked the cops and blabbed on the internet about the whole thing.

So here's a post armadar Is apparently put on the Facebook group Florida Boys with a Z Hunting and Fishing right. Also, this this post confirms uh, this incident was not his first dust up with the law. Okay, soccer expletive expletive. I'm tired of you looking for me like I'm some most wanted fugitive over a little tank dive ten question marks L O L. Come on now, well you know what, bess P. I've breed fish since I was nine years old. You can kiss my expletive about the three thousand dollar

decontamination expletive. Yeah, I expletive expletive diving in. But who doesn't want to dive in that beautiful tank? And who has been blasted this hard and charged with felonies ten question marks? Since all since I came and read this, since all you authorities want to blast me like I'm some nasty criminal and offer awards, well, guess what, get to working even more because I'll turn myself in when I'm ready. You guys have put me out to be

a drug dealing, robbing, aggravated battery in criminal. But guess what, I beat all those charges. So that's wrong. Expletive man, it is what it is. S mates. You guys are pathetic expletive expletive expletive expletive. This was printed in the news story. The whole, the whole, entire passage right, there, isn't that going? Well? Guess what? Arma Dares was arrested nearly two months later on the charges of trespassing. How

did they finally get this guy? While the Sheriff's office received a call for service stating Armadares was on his way to the days in on South Cleveland Avenue threatening to shoot someone. He was he was at the motel the morning of July one, near a vehicle containing a pump action shotgun and more than two hundred rounds of ammunition,

and charge with two counts of resisting arrest. Now, not surprisingly, he failed to peer in court twice in the months following his arrest, most recently in February and uh pulling another ace out of his deck. He moved to North Carolina, which could not extradite him back to Florida over bench Warrens.

But I guess the heat was finally getting to be too much, because nearly a year after ruining what already sounded like a fairly shitty existence to swim with some bass and catfish, Armadaris is back in Florida and ready to face the music. He's gotten a lawyer. Likely, I'm just gonna say by way of a billboard on some Florida back road. And this is the only quote in the piece from his lawyer. Right, we hear from the lawyer one time and he just says, we will take

care of these warrants. We'll probably just go in dot dot dot and figure it out from there. So they over under that meth is somehow playing a role in this. You know, it's there's no question it sounds very methy to me. I mean, better call Saul is all I can think for this dude, exactly exactly, so I will say, I mean, look, it sounds like dudes in all kinds of bad stuff. Like he's not like a nice dude, but there's also that little baby part of me that

feels for him. It's like, Okay, I did a goofy thing. I jumped at a tank, and like you guys are really gonna like go this hard at me for that, But like, yeah, they did like to think that it's all the other things that are making them go hard at him. Maybe I'm wrong. Probably it's probably like, well he we we we already need to get him for these things, so like now we'll just had the tank. But he's making it sound like he's like an upstanding

citizen except for this tank jump. Now that I'm saying this, it makes me think you don't cross bass pro man, Like if there is one entity in the fishing world that you can get but not not bass pro I mean now they're one and the same. So no, Like, if you're gonna if you're going to cause problems in the with anybody in the fishing industry, that's probably not the right way to go. They have the resources to get you. Well, yeah, they have plenty of money and like,

yeah they're that is true. They're not a little mom and pop tackle shop. They have resources and a legal team. The one thing I do question though, like do you really need to decontaminate that entire fish tank over one dude's women in it? Like come on, Like that's like one of the like money like on how much methidle, how much melted down robotusin or whatever is now and tank? Oh yeah, so yeah, yeah, speaking of substances that are worth far more than they probably should be at street value. Joe,

have you ever heard of Amber Grease? I actually do happen to know what Amber grease is? Yes? You do? You do? You want you want to you want to take this, I don't want to take it. I could tell you, I could tell the people what it is. To the best of my knowledge, it's giant gobs of like petrified solidified well vomit. That is worth shiploads of money if you know where to find it. And I know a guy. I don't know, but I know a guy,

So that's straight That is straight upright. It is a dense waxy substance formed by the bile ducts in the intestines of sperm whales and sperm whales only not all whales just spurm. They didn't know that. And how about this? Giants guid beaks have been found within chunks of ambergrease, and the theory goes that the substance prevents sharp, undigestible objects like that from rupturing sperm whales and testines, right, because they eat cuttle fish and giant squid and they

can't digest the beaks. So the theory is that the substance. They evolved the substance to kind of wrap up the sharp bits so it didn't come up from the inside out. Yeah, and sperm whales probably expel amber grease like they do fecal matter, but if the mass is too large, they may vomit it up instead, hence the whale vomit thing. But bile just disagree on this point. No one's really sure how it comes out or even if it comes

out fresh. Ambergrease is described as having a marine fecal odor, but as it flops around smrine fecal But as it floats around in the ocean and ages, it takes on a sweet, earthy, musky scent, which is often compared to rub being alcohol without the chemical extringency. Smell good. What does marine feel like? I know what dead rotten fish smells like, and I know what dogshit smells like. I don't know what like marine ship smells like? Who who

says that? Okay? Several sources uh. Chunkes of ambergris can float around for years before eventually watching up on shore, which is where people usually find it. According to London's Natural History Museum, humans have used and valued rare ambergries for at least a thousand years, though its origin remained unknown until large scale whaling began in the eighteen hundreds. It's sometimes called floating gold or treasure of the sea. Or its other common name, as you pointed out, is

whale vomit, which is somewhat less appealing straightforward. Early civilizations used ambergries for all kinds of applications, but it was highly prized as an aphrodisiac. Throughout the past few centuries, It's remained valuable because it contains and breen. I think that's how I'm both pronounced that which is added to

perfume to make the scent lasts longer. In the last few decades, chemists have come up with with much cheaper synthetic alternatives, but super high end perfumes still used naturally occurring ambigras, so it remains incredibly valuable. High quality ambergris can sell for ten thousand dollars a pound, and an eight pound piece is considered a big find. But last February a group of Yemeni fishermen looked into a serious

chunk of this stuff. I got a preface this by saying life is a commercial fisherman and Yemen there's never been like what we would consider kush comfortable or easy thing. No, these guys take take really small vessels out in the Gulf of Aiden, which is this water with the connects the Red Sea in the Arabian Sea and on like a particularly great outing. Like if every thing goes right, they're out for a few days and they come back to market with a full boat and everything goes perfectly.

A Yemeni fisherman might earn the equivalent of fifty bucks each time, like when they really school right. But since civil war broke out in that already hard life has become like nearly impossible. Two thirds of the thirty million residents are relying on humanitarian aid right now, and and it's it's it's really tough for fisherman because many parts of the Yemeni coast are war zones, so fishing is prohibited in certain places, and and even unrestricted areas can

just erupt in conflict like it's a bad deal. So the fisherman who found this ambergris in the story are from the village of al Qaisa. I believe an area okay an area in the Southern Aidan province, and that that zone like this is a board context. That zone

they're they're in has less fighting and fewer restrictions. And on the day that they struck whale goal, they just happened to have this other guy on board with them who's from a village further north, and this guy had fled the war to to a more a safer part, to to earn a living. He was he was also a fisherman, but he's like, I can't fish my homeland, so I come south. He hopped on these guys boats.

They went out and they're on their way to the fishing grounds and they pass a large dead sperm whale that had been floating around in the area for some time. One of the local fishermen told the Mideast I quote, we had passed by that same dead fish more than once, and we didn't give it any attention, as the sea

is full of dead fish. But on this particular trip, they had that dude from the northern village with them, and he recognized that that was a sperm whale, and he like he knew about the ambergris, so he told him like, hold on, guys, we got forget about the fishing. We got taken this whale. And I could imagine the conversation that went on when they're like, you want us to do what He's like, no, no no, no, we gotta take in this whale. Carcass are you getting to the

legality of this, because like, can you do that? I mean over here, what's like you cannot mess with a dead marine mammal. Okay, they're not concerned about that problems like a global law. I don't know, no, I there it is actually leval what they did. I tug you to that. It's it's legit. They're not they're not breaking any laws. Um. So they had to get a bunch of other boats to drag this thing in. And again this is guy's that outsiders convincing all these fishermen like, hey,

stop doing what you're doing. You know it's gonna make you money. Trust me. We dragged this whale carcass and it's gonna be great. And then ultimately they got the whole village involved. Over over one fishermen helped drag and dismember this just like disgustingly rotten beast up on the beach, which again you're putting a lot on these guys, like now now now start hacking this thing up. Yeah, how did this dude? Like, isn't it also a gamble? Like

did he know? How do you know? There's it's it's like in an oyster you could eat ten million oysters and not find a pearl, like you. Only five per cent of whale carcasses have this in him, and usually it's just a small amount. So he had to be a very compelling dude. And it worked out because they found a chunk of amber grease in that whale that

weighed two hundred and eighty pounds. Oh my god. And so then they all had to like rally together and take turns guarding that foul smelling awfulness until they were able to like find someone to sell it to. And they sold it to a broker from the United Arab Emirates for the equivalent of one point five million dollars,

which they then distributed throughout the community. So like most families got twelve thousand bucks, which is enough for a young fisherman to marry and build a house or to purchase his own boat, which is like a total game changer for these folks. And they distributed like the whole it was a village of a thousand families. They distributed out. Everybody got what they needed. They bought medicines for folks.

Like was a really great story of not just hey, we found this thing and we pirated it and we have a couple of people got rich, Like they really used it to distribute funds throughout the community, and this whole fishing village is now better off for it. And it's just it's a rare bit of good news coming out a part of the world that doesn't have a lot of good news these days. And it came in

the form of whale vomit I did. I gotta say, man, Like I feel like this is this is prompting me to do more research, because there's so much more I want to know, like how often does this wash up? Where does it wash up most often? Like can I find this Fourth of July weekend at like my in law's beach house, Like the most commonplace to find is the Bahamas? And I also wonder Amber Greece, k belize is that name? Because like it used to wash up there more or something, or at least it washed up

there once. Yeah, But then my next question would be if I if I do on fourth of July weekend, like stumble on this right, Like who the hell do you call? Like now I gotta unload two pounds Amber Greece, Like we call the fish market, Like what who do you call? That ship on Facebook, you know what I mean, Facebook market Place. If that comes up, it's definitely gonna be a sale ban. I'm just saying, right, Yeah, but dude, I know I think that's I think that's really fascinating.

I also had no idea that anybody was still used not in cosmetics and perfume, Like that's got to be some super high end stuff because you think about it, it's sustainable. You don't actually have to I knew historically we used whale blubber for cosmetics and oil lamps, and that's why we killed like almost every whale. But the

whale doesn't have to die to get this stuff. So yeah, man, I could see, especially in like the boutique world we live in, there's got to be some perfume makers whatever they're called, that are just like, man, you must smell, you must smell real good. So we'll move on from fecal matter. Is she smelled a marine? Yeah, it's a great selling point there. I'm gonna stay I'm gonna stay on dead fish here. Uh, not not a big one,

but a lot of them. And this is a short story that's just gonna I think lead to some some some conversation here. It also lets me stay in crime. I'm doing the crime thing today. I'm like the c S I to catch predator, America's most wanted for anglers today. So we already got some bitch that had the audacity to jump in the bass pro tank. Uh, let's move on to catch criminal. Um. Anyway, this is a this is a short but poignant story. Um. And this comes

from Arizona's a Z family dot com headline. Police make arrest after one thousand pounds of fish were dumped in Phoenix, and it's it's such a short story. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna burn through it. Police have arrested a suspect in connection to one thousand pounds of fish that were found dumped along a Phoenix road on Tuesday. Police sergeant and Justice said detectives were able to develop probable calls to arrest forty two year old Russell Omar Howard Thursday.

It started when police were called to the area of fifth teenth Avenue and Pinnacle Peak Road for reports of illegal dumping. When officers arrived, they found a large pile of trash, including several dead fish. Arizona Game and Fish confirmed to Arizona family that at least one thousand pounds of carp and gizzard, chad boxes and trash from a

spear fishing tournament at Lake Pleasant over the weekend. We're dumped in the area of Fifteenth Avenue and Pinnacle Peak Road, and this dude now faces one count of criminal littering, which is a Class six felony. So I did a little research in the Lake Pleasant spear fishing. Didn't know anything about it. And this is a big deal there, Like it's a um you know, fairly big tourist destination. It's it's very clear, at least from the videos I've seen, and it seems a lot of people go there to

spearfish for strypers, serious dudes. And I was trying to find information on this specific tournament to see if it was judged by total weight or what. Um I didn't really find much, but regardless, this is very similar, in my opinion to the Sebago Lake trout story we covered, um you know, in that this act, like this ship

gives an entire faction of anglers a bad name. And in the case of Spega, it was ice fisherman looking kind of like pigs basically for for leaving all these dead fish on the ice, and I think this, like what happened here in Phoenix, this is something that not only tarnishes the spear fishing community, but bow fisherman for sure.

And for the record, I don't know if I don't know if I've ever said this on this show, but I actually I really enjoy bow fishing, and it's it's not something that I do often, but I find it

extremely fun. And I can also say that I've never been in a position where I had to figure out what to do with the forty five carpie shot because I can't shoot whereth the ship Like I just I'm really and and as I'm as I'm doing it, I'm like aim low and then I know all the things this somehow at the last second, it just doesn't touch

the fish. So this is not a personal issue that I have, um but you know, what happens to piles of common carp whether they were shot with a spire arrow is is one of those things that I think people in general sort of turn a blind eye to. It's like everyone knows the vast majority of the time those fish are probably gonna be wasted, like not many people are finding plates for a hundred pounds of fried

common carp meat. Um. But what keeps people from going overly ballistic about the sport is simply not seeing it, you know. And um, you know, one of the guys I used to shoot with, he swore that he had people eager to take his fish to eat. And again, up here on the river, you're not having a hundred fish night like you would in Texas or where you know.

It's it's just not you don't shoot that many fish. Um. And another buddy of mine, he said he had the best racket going because he trade the carp with commercial lobster guys for lobsters, because apparently carp make like exceptional trap bait. But yeah, exactly, the lobster guys say that man common carp is terrific lobster bait for their traps. Um. But I mean, look, I never saw any of that

in my own eyes. I trusted that was the case because these were buddies of mine, and that made me sleep a little easier after my one or two boat trips a season. And I don't want to make it sound like I was overly upset about taking a few carp out of the river. But I mean, you know, I'm a rodding real guy first that that mostly catches and releases, which is why I would never bow fish like twice a week all summer. Like it's it's too much like a trip here and there. Every once in

a while, I can get behind that um. But you know, those fish could have ended up in a dumpster, which, while that might upset some people too, it's far better than dumping the fish on the side of the road because less chance for people to see it. And it's it's dumb moves like this that ruined ship for the responsible guys, or at least, I should say, the guys with enough sense to recognize that if you're going to waste a bunch of carp and shad like you waste

them away from prying eyes. And I hate to say it, I hope the dude gets hit with the charges like that's a that's a that's a ship move. Yeah, yeah. The dumping is is a is a. Really, there's no question, that's not even a gray area. That's just that's just terrible. But the the issue of what to do with rough fish, then you both fish and I gotta I gotta step back. Common carp, I get gizzard shed Are those non native?

Are those invasive? Are those an issue in the body of water that we're talking about here that I don't know, I would think not. I mean, man, gizzard chatter kind of everywhere. Yeah, So, I mean, like I can see that I get the justification common carp invasive fish problematic. I I struggle with the just the wanton waste of

native fish species and rough fish. It's it's something that I actually I don't have a problem with both fishing and all, and I also enjoy it, but I don't do it very often, partially because I'm like, man, I shoot a couple of carp the hell? I mean, you put one in the garden or whatever, in a buddies garden, because, as we've already talked on the show, I've never successfully

done that. But what do you do after that? Like, I don't necessarily want to eat them, and I don't want to have to figure out what to do with them. I recognize that it's is it legal to throw them away in a dumpster? I don't actually know the answer to that question. I don't I don't know it either. I mean, that's probably a state by state thing I truly don't know. But what I can tell you about the gizzard Chad, at least from some of my experience here, it's like I know a lot of bow fishermen that

it's like, can I shoot that? Can I legally shoot that? Yes? Then I'll fire at it, you know what I'm saying, And like gizzard Chad, it's like, oh, that is okay for me to shoot at, So I will shoot at it. Like I never really shot at a ton of gizzard Chad, Like I just that's not what I was out there for. Like you're trying to whack a couple of carp and it is what it is. But the question of why would you do that? Because you can? Because I just know there are bow guys who are like that, Like

everything that comes into the lights, like can I shoot that? Well, yeah, boom like and it's hit and this is and I know I hit this all the time. But this is where it brings me back to the big mouth buffalo thing, which we all know. I'm fully obsessed with big mouth buffalo, admit it. And I'm not excited about them being such a popular target for both fishers because I want them to be around for other reasons, because they're part of

the ecosystem, and because I want to catch them. In other ways, I get harvesting a few them because I know they're delicious and great. If that's what you're doing, do it. It's legal. But I I struggle with the just the going out and just killing a bunch of fish. To kill a bunch of fish, particularly if they're native fish like suckers that are part of the ecosystem like that,

that doesn't sit well with me. I can't condone that. Well, this is this is totally op ed. We're certainly not coming to a conclusion on this, But just to to point out that, I mean that dude's kind of a jerk for dumping all those fish there. And no matter where you stand on both fishing, I mean, you can't that that is exactly the kind of thing that gets hackles up in. This makes us look it makes us look bad. So I'm sure you know, hey, you know how to find us bend at the mediator dot com

way in let us know what you think. We're gonna let Phil. We're gonna see what Phil thinks of us and our stories this week. Um, and then As soon as we're done doing that, believe it or not, I am getting us back on the striper scene with a freak in Philistine. I read a book. Joe read a book, so stay dude for that. It was educational, it was informative, it was entertaining. Miles, let's shower you in some amba. Grise you're the winner this week by referencing both the

Konami Code and Fallout Boy. Yes, Joe, I got that reference. It seems like you guys are trying to both pander too and mock me at the same time. I feel like Carrie. If you guys end up crowning me prom queen next week, I swear to God, I will not even wait for that pigs blood. I will you up. What's to Fhilistine A guy who doesn't care about books or interesting films and things, But when David de Benedetto is on the run hit bookstore shelves in the early

two thousand's, my soul was crushed. And at the time, I was in college, often fighting to stay awakened class because I'd been surf fishing all night, or skipping it entirely to catch the right tide on some North Jersey Jetty. I was also scheming about how I get my break in the outdoor journalism game, and one night it hit me, how cool would it be to follow the entire stripe bass migration up and down the East Coast and document it.

It had never been done before, that is, until the Benedetto did it and wrote an entire book about it. I got over it pretty quickly, though, and I even wrote to Benedetto an emailed telling him how jealous I was, but also how much I loved the book, because, in my opinion, despite there being several other great books about the stripers scene out there, none came close to capturing the entirety of it so beautifully. Growing up in the nineties,

stripe bass were almost non existent to me. They were mythic on a tinable, and their rebound coincided with that point in my life when you're just old enough to do whatever the hell you want, and also when you had very little responsibility. And I was already in love with chasing stripers, but On the Run made me feel

like I was part of something so much bigger. On the Run kicks off in Maine on Labor Day weekend two thousand one, just prior to the attacks on September eleven, and it ends in late November on the outer banks of North Carolina. But what happens in between has less to do with fish and much more to do with people. De Benedetto spent time with all the most notable characters in every faction of the striper scene, and plenty of less notable people fighting to preserve these fish or fighting

to make a living catching them. Every new person he encounters presents a new perspective and new adventure. De Benedetto famously opens the book Terrified as he skishes with Paul Melanik, a Montalk local that swims out and drifts hundreds of

yards offshore while dangling live eels. He gets to witness legendary surfcaster Tony Stetsko almost come to blows with another angler on the beach that crowded him, and he sits down with former world record holder Alan mc reynolds and learns that catching such a coveted fish may have been more cursed than blessing. And in one of my favorite scenes, he rubs elbows in a Rhode Island bar with a

group of guys. I idolized as a teen surfcaster. He's brought to this bar after diving with well known spear fisherman and underwater videographer Mike lap Two. Here's a taste. When we arrived, lap two spotted a few trucks in the parking lot with fishing rods locked on their roofs. Looks like the gangs here, he said. Inside where the yuppy day course seemed more suitable to a gathering of sailing skippers, lap two told the hostess, we're with a

group that smells like fish. At the table, everyone went by their handles from the site stripers Online. The group consisted of crafty Angler, Tattoo, d Z, and hab There was also a fellow iron Mike, who didn't belong to stripers Online. According to lap two, these guys were among Rhode Island's most hard horse striper. Fisherman Habrek, who was built like a linebacker and sported a thick handlebar mustache,

was the center of attention. When I sat down, he pulled out a lower box full of varying sized needle fish long plugs that range in size from the width of a broomstick to that of a pencil. Iron Mike and Tattoo started rubbing their hands together. Most sharpies feel habrecs needle fish have no equal when it comes to seducing big bass. When stocks run low at tackle shops, anglers will often call Habrec pleading for a personal shipment. You won't believe the things guys will be for these plugs.

I had to stop giving out my number, he told me. When Habric opened the box, Tattoo snatched up a sharp troose needle fish and ran it under his nose like a fine cigar. Oh this is real nice, he said. Cries of plug Ho went up around the table. Plug Ho is a term of derision for any member of s O L who displays loose morals. The quest for hard to come by. Plug. Everyone at the table was jazz for the fall run. It was proving to be

the best in recent memory. The bait had stayed close to shore for the past few weeks, and day long blitzes were common. When I told the guys that the fishermen on the islands and Vineyard Sound were having a meek year, there was little sympathy. Iron Mike, a spark plug of a fellow who got louder with each beer and seemed to somehow work in every sentence. Had landed a fifty one pounder on a HAB's needle fish just

a few days prior. It can be boom or bust in the fall, and we're booming this year, he said. I asked the group about the sharing of information on the internet. Many fishermen I had met on my trip aboard the idea of posting secret strategies and drops on fishing websites. This gang was no different. General information was fine, but posting a report with the exact location of where you whacked the fish was a deadly sin. We all

had to pay our dues. Why should some lurker who doesn't know squat have the privilege of being told where to go and what to use. The learning process is part of the sports, said Tattoo. Some members had even devised a code for exchanging information. The following day, Tattoo sent me an example. It read, the pattern is open. You're cleared for twinkies. It was twenty times before puke. Pink was the color of the sky. In nine seven times, I like pink. I like to swim. Metal twelve was

a good year. Pukers like steel six times. Di Benedetto didn't have a crystal ball, but he unknowingly captured what I'd consider the last years of true purity in the stripers scene. Message Boards were a thing, but this was long before Facebook and Instagram. You still had to put in your time, maybe lean on a mentor get in with the right crowd. You needed more than a photo to be considered the man, or to earn a reputation as a sharpie. Everybody in their uncle wasn't a custom lawmaker.

John Haberac made lawyers that caught fish, not fisherman, and would probably be piste off about how much people will spend on one of his plugs these days as a collector's item. Now hab is sadly gone, so as Tony Stetsko, and so is Al mc reynolds. But saddest of all is that the run de Benedetto followed has gone to

Nobody catches stripers in the outer Banks anymore. Striper numbers are on the decline, and the textbook route they once followed has been altered by everything from beach replenishment to

over fishing, to global warming and beyond. But I owe this book for a lot more than solidifying my love of striper fishing, because not long after it was published, De Benedetto became the editor in chief of Saltwater Sportsman, which had recently moved to New York City, and through a few lucky connections, I got to interview for an internship. And when I met Dave, he said, aren't you the

guy that emailed me about my book? And he gave me my first full time magazine job ever in two thousand five, And here I am now still on my own run in the craziness that is the fishing industry. All right. First off, everyone, everyone, Joe tackled a philistine segment. Phil Can we get a round of blows for Joe on that own blues? Thank you? I am hooked on fish and on phonics this week. So it turns out you don't just write books, do you know how to

read them too? Thank you? Uh. Also, you managed to hit a classic book that I've never read, though it's been it's been recommended to me more than once. Uh, And so I need to get on that. It sounds like it sounds like it's It actually does a very very good job of capturing the entirety of of the fishing culture that we're talking about, and that's not easy

to do. I personally very much enjoyed the Pete McDonald and Tosh Brown book The Blitz, which profiled the scene in a similar way, at a different time period and in a more visual format. But I think I'm going to enjoy that that longer form narrative even better. Yeah, you will, you you would love this book. And the first time I read that book, um, and it had

a pretty profound impact on me. And little did I know that within just a couple of years I to be working for David Benedetto at Saltwater Sportsman and would end up meeting, uh, you know, or corresponding with so many people in that book. So in a way, it's

like a part of my surf fishing roots. Dude, This whole this whole episode is like a little window into Joe's origin story, right it is it is and and as well as being a peek into one of the biggest and most engaged fishing subcultures in the country, it's just I mean, it's huge, right if you look at the numbers, Striper fishing is massive, but it's so localized, right, and and so a lot of us, myself included, even hard wranglers, have no personal frame of reference with this,

but we're aware of it, and at least for me, like even though I don't have that direct experience, I get it, like I understand what's going on because it's still fishing, right, because like so exactly at one point when when you and Bill what's what we're talking and I was just sort of sitting there listening to being like, oh, this is amazing, we had to stop the interview, just like like mid interview, just it off so YouTube could

geek out over who had the rarest custom wooden striper plugs. Yeah, we literally both got up for a second. We're like oh yeah, and like got up to grab some Hammo to have a plugs showdown over zoom. Right. He threw down first though, He's like look what I got. I'm like,

oh yeah, as he would say, oh yeah mom. So I presented a metal lips surface swimmer made by Twisted, which I could go on and on about it, but just suffice to say I've been offered a lot of money for it because it's a rare one, and none of it, like you guys were going deep and none of the specifics of any of those baits or the bait makers or the particular like paint jobs. None of that made any sense to me, Like it meant nothing

to me. I got what was going on. I understood like, oh, this is a pecking order thing, who's got the weirdest, coolest bait. But but I definitely, even though I didn't know those exact names or why they were special, very much recognized the style of the lures. Right the individual exact lures themselves, no idea, but I can see the style like I see the DNA of where those came from.

And that's where we're going to as we close out the show because because in this week's end the Line segment, we're gonna talk about how so many lures considered classics and the striper scene actually have Midwest ingenuity to thank for their design. Well, that's not loud enough, Burt. The Creek Chub Pikey Minnow might be the most iconic vintage

lure ever produced. With its scooped out nose, uniquely taper tail, and of course patented step down metal lip, the Pikey Minnow pops into most of our heads when we imagine old fishing lures. Before Repolic came to dominate the plug scene, there was Creek Chub. So the Pikey was Creek Chubb's biggest selling lure and most recognizable design. It wasn't the first.

The Wiggler, designed way back in nineteen o six by three Fishing Buddies from Garrett, Indiana, was the first lure to incorporate a diving lip or a mouthpiece as they originally called it. This was the first timond recorded history that an inanimate object personified the wiggle of a frightened bait fish, a minor miracle of spontaneous generation. Modern anglers

hardly even notice. From nineteen sixteen to the mid nineteen sixties, Creek Chub and the pike he min Oh dominated freshwater fish and fishing and set a standard for lure quality never again seen in production lures. The company only used white cedar wood for the bodies. Each lure was hand painted with at least seven and sometimes up to fourteen coats of paint. They devised a proprietary netting through which they could apply that paint to create a realistic scale

pattern on each bait. The steel trouble hooks were imported from Norway. That insistence on quality ultimately became their undoing is. Once plastic hit the market, Creek Chub simply couldn't compete, and in the company went out of business. Entire books have been written about the history of this company this lure, so I'm not going to belabor all the specifics, but I think contemporary anglers forget how groundbreaking this lure was.

Because of their popularity, Creek Shub naturally found their baits attached to some of the most controversial big fish dust ups of all time. First, the holy grail of American fishing records, George Perry's twenty two pound, four ounce large mouth that stood as the all tackle bass record for almost ninety years, was caught on a creek shub. Only no one's totally sure which Creek Chub, since Perry's story changed throughout life. It wasn't a pikey minnow, we don't think,

but no one's totally sure. The pikey minnow is at the center of a different and only slightly less heated record fish controversy, the world record muskie. The standing record weighed sixty pounds eleven ounces and was caught in ninety nine by Louis Spray from the Chippewa Flowage in Wisconsin, but from nineteen sixty nine to two the record was actually held by Art Lawton, who claims who have caught a muskie four ounces heavier from the St. Lawrence River

in New York on a pikey minnow. In the I g f A declared Lawton's record fraudulent, stating that modern scrutiny of available evidence showed it to be smaller than its certified weight and length. I would love to digress into the churning operatic drama that surrounds these two muskie record chasers in their fish, which includes no shortage of outlaw buffoonery and alcohol fuel transgressions on basic decency. But

we're not here to talk about the muskie record. We're talking about the pikey minnow, and regardless of any bs around, particular records and fragile egos, this bait may have caught more big fresh water fish than any other By the

time Rappola even crossed the pond. Pikey minnows were allegedly responsible for a twenty pound large mouth in four, a thirty six pound pike in n seven and eighteen pound walleye in nineteen thirty three, an eleven pound small mouth in nineteen forty one, and another eleven pounds spotted bass in nineteen That's plenty enough to solidify its place in

fishing history. That was very good. But I'm going to step in now and add a pinch of salt to your pikey history because this is our Stripers show, and there's more to this story. So everything that you just said is accurate, and the pikey has certainly solidified its place in freshwater fishing history. Prior to World War Two, the stripers surf casting scene as we know it now didn't really exist, and if you wanted to catch them,

you soaked bait. In fact, lobster tail was a common offering because lobsters are actually considered something only poor people eight back in the day. Now, there were also some metal lures and tin lures being slung around. But when the boys came home from war, surf casting, like many other scenes, boomed. Those surfcasters figured out quickly that those muskie and pike sized pikey minnows were equally appealing to stripe bass. And because as you noted, they were made

so well they could also stand up to them. There was so much demand for Pikeys on the coast that in nineteen fifty Creak Chub introduced the Striper Pikey, an even heavier duty version of the original than In nineteen fifty three, Creak Chub dropped the Surfster. It had this stepped lip similar to the Pikey, but a fatter, rounder, more tapered body than a Pikey, which was kind of

more cigar shaped. It was the Surfster that would become the template for many similar plugs, including those Bill Wetzel and I were geeking out about on that Zoom call of ours. Metal lipped swimmers is the category of laura we're talking about, because they fly far in the surf. They're built to take a beating. They wobble and roll across the surface and create a really distinct v wake.

While Creek Chub may have had a big chunk of the market for a time, like you said, by the late sixties, the Surfster and many of their other lines had been discontinued, and nobody was really throwing pikes in the surf at all anymore. Aside from plastic Lores dominating

the market. By then, other brands of metal lips swimmer, notably Stand Gibbs Danny Swimmer, had sort of taken hold, partly at least I think, because they were made in Massachusetts, and striper fishermen were then and are now fiercely loyal to local plugmakers. Today, there are hundreds of small shop regional builders that turn metal lips swimmers, all of which share design elements with the pike and the surf stir.

And while I know plenty of striper guys that proudly display vintage pikes on shelves, I don't know anybody that chucks them. So you mentioned that Creek Chubb went out of business in which is true, but the name was purchased by Prad Colure's shortly thereafter, and Creek Chubb does still exist today, though everything now is made out of plastic.

Matter of fact, in the early two thousands, and what I assume was an attempt to capture the growing surf market as striper populations rebounded, prad Co did a saltwater pikey reissue, pumping out all the get sizes made of molded plastic and featuring trusted modern striper colors like yellow school Bus and blur Pool, and I remember getting a few samples and being super pumped about them, but to be honest, I don't think I ever threw them because when it came down to maximizing time on the beach,

standing there in the surf, I trusted the beat up Gibbs and R. M Smith's and lefty swimmers already in my surf bag. And I think most striper guys felt the same way. And as fast as the reissued pikes appeared, they were gone from tackle shop shelves. So that's it for this week, and we hope you enjoyed our little foray into the striper scene. And I wouldn't be surprised if we pick another scene down the road and go all in again because this was fun. Yeah, yeah, we

definitely will. I'm I'm I'm calling DIBs on on Telapia because we all know how much you got it, you got you got it? Yeah, I do, I do, you gotta. I feel like we're missing something though. I feel like there's an there's a very smoky elephant in the room that we need to talk about. How did our residents straper surf expert Bob the garbage Man not show up in this episode, Like, how did you not bring him in? This is a terrific question. I'll tell you what happened.

I sent him an outline of the show topics and he looked it over and was like, I'm not interested as soon as he saw the things we're gonna be talking about. But he did leave this message for me, Yeah, telling Niles, I'll catch more strivers on them creek choves and asking or wherever the he lives anywhere out here and you'd learn more about strips from Curious George goes fishing and that directory of notable Mook's book you was

talking about or whatever. There you go. I'm pretty sure I just lost whatever whatever street cred I may have once had with Bob. Hopefully we haven't lost any with all of you out there listening, but if we have, let's know, just send an email to Bent at the meat Eater dot com. It's also the perfect place to send us bar nomination sale ban items, awkward photos, news leads,

and all that other good stuff we're looking forward to. Yes, and finally catch up on b side fishing on YouTube, damn it and tune into b Side next week to watch me hunt down the lowliest, most unappreciated member of the Esox family. Those who know me know exactly what that is. We've also always got eyes on those degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags, and if anyone now has eyes on my rare twisted Swimmer with the Mahi Mahi paint job, of which like one or two were ever made,

back off, because that ship's not for sale. Si