Hi, get everybody.
I'm Dan Hoard and thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth podcast The Who Can It Be? Now addition, as Dave Lapham joins me for one of the most downloaded episodes of this podcast every year, featuring our final pre draft discussion and lapse prediction for who the Bengals will select
at number eighteen. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider
of the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the four foundations of golf. I've been playing golf for most of my life and would describe my game as decent but frustrating.
I hit the ball pretty solidly, but rarely post great scores. Well, I'm about halfway through a book called The Four Foundations of Golf, and it's already helped simply by changing my strategy. I haven't read a single word about the swing, at least not yet, but I'm confident I'll be able to take a few strokes off my typical scores by using a smarter approach driven by easy to understand data. So if you love the game but hate to suck at it,
pick up the book The Four Foundations of Golf. I found it at the library and I'm ready to go low. Now let's get to football. My broadcast partner, Dave Lapham, has been remarkably accurate over the years in predicting who the Bengals would select with their first round draft pick. In twenty twelve, when many experts said it would be offensive lineman David di Castro, lap correctly said it would
be another O lineman, Kevin Zeitler. In twenty thirteen, despite already having two time Pro Bowl tight end Jermaine Gresham on the roster, lapp correctly predicted that the Bengals would select Tyler Eifert. He nailed the John Ross pick in twenty seventeen, and the Bengals already had aj Green and Tyler Boyd, And there have been other years where even if he didn't get his final prediction right, it was because that player was already gone, and Lapp told us
who they would likely take if that happened. So it's time for this year's pre draft Extravaganza featuring an in depth discussion of this year's class, our first round predictions, and your ask lap questions.
We are now.
Joined by the sixty first pick in the nineteen seventy four NFL draft, Syracuse offensive lineman Dave Lapham. That draft took place in January back then, seventeen round. There were seven Hall of famers, five of them went to the Pittsburgh Steelers. I was looking at the Pro Football Reference database.
They have a system that measures everybody's proximate value. You were tied for eighteenth in the nineteen seventy four draft class for most overall career value, actually ahead of Hall of Fame tight end Dave Casper, So congratulations on that. Is it a point of pride though, to have been part of a draft class that generated so many great players?
It really really was.
And you'll get to be friends with Mike Webster in particular, and Dave Casper is another one. We played in quite a few of the All Star Games, and I was fortunate enough back then the Hula Bowl and Senior Bowl had been on the same weekend that year for the first time it wasn't, so I made the circuit. I went Blue Gray, East West, Hula Bowl, Senior Bowl. I was out of the cues for six weeks. Man, it was unbelievable, and we swept them one, all four of them.
So it was a great All Star Game run. And Mad made friends with, you know, a lot of a lot of really good guys, Webster being one of them, Casper another, and you know, worked out against it at practices and or games against guys including two tall Jones who was the first pick of the draft, and I remember past protected against him, and all of a sudden, the circle of people got closer and it got bigger, and you see owners, you know, back then was owners
and general managers. And because the it was just a sixteen millimeter film is what everybody would get. There were no cell phones, it wasn't anything like that. So it was like, I hope this rep goes well, this could have a lot riding on it.
Right here. It was. It was an interesting time, but a fun time.
The then Houston Oilers had the number one overall pick in that draft. They traded it to the Cowboys, along with the first pick in the third round for a couple of vets.
Dallas got too tall.
Jones, as you mentioned, the number one overall pick and the first quarterback taken in your draft, Danny White, who was their starter for like ten years or something like that. That's why Dallas was so good for so long. They often swindled teams in the draft.
They really did. I mean they they took.
It was a science to them, long before it was a science to everybody else. They just they were more than a step ahead of everybody. They were, I think, a good job ahead everybody back in the day. I mean Gil Brandt was way ahead of his time. He was lapping people, you know, and that guy I can remember vividly at every All Star Game he was there. It was him, you know, making contact with people, looking right in the eye, shaking your hand. I'm Gil brand
Dallas Cowboys. We think this and just give you really good information that none of the other people weren't even thinking about talking about. Was he was way ahead of his time.
All right, let's turn to this year's draft. Every draft guru says it is a historically good group for offensive linemen.
Why what is it about this class that jumps out on tape.
Boy at the offensive tackle position? Is just their behemoths. I mean, it is unbelievable. If you're not six six to six eight, three hundred and twenty five pounds to three hundred and fifty pounds, you ain't making the club, you know. And everybody's hand is you know, from the tip of the pinky to the tip of the thumb eleven plus inches, almost a ruler. You know, they can
almost palm a ruler. And their wingspan from you know, fingertip to fingertip when you put your hands out to the side, it's over seven feet, you know, seven feet seven foot two. So it's it's their arms are thirty five thirty six plus inches.
They are big, long.
Strong, athletic enough to you know, they're bending at the knees, not at the waist. Their their their hand placement with those big muckers, and the strength in their hands is phenomenal. I mean, I watched some of these guys just control people with their hands. It's it's incredible to watch the strength that they have, and they can move. I mean some of them have a little bit more problem redirected inside than others, but almost all of them handle the
outside stuff, you know, very fluidly. So it's a it's a group where you know, they are I think six or seven offensive tackles that could be drafted in the first round and all they're all worthy. And that's the thing I think that's impressive about this draft overall, Dan. I mean, there have been drafts here recently where saying that's not even sixteen first round picks, not even half
the draft, maybe twenty, you know, in another draft. Now, I think this draft is like there will be guys that go in the second round where you could make a case, you know, really that guy could be for he's the first round talent.
You know.
Now this draft, they're able to fill up the first round. And I think overall, in a lot of rounds, there is quite a bit of depth. I mean, it's a really good draft, and there's good players, and there's depth of player in most rows.
I looked at numerous draft experts big boards to see how they rank these offensive linemen, and there's a website out there that looks at hundreds of big boards and thousands of mock drafts to compile a consensus. Here is the consensus ranking of the top offensive lineman. Joe Alt Notre Dame number one, Olufashin UPenn State, number two, Talisa Fluaga Oregon State number three, Troy fa Utanu Washington number four, JC Latham Alabama number five, Amarius Mims Georgia number six.
At least one of those guys is going to be there at number eighteen. And who knows, if five or six quarterbacks get taken before the Bengals are on the clock, maybe two or three of.
Those guys are available.
Who's Dave Lapham's dream offensive lineman? And of those six guys, are there any red flags?
I think that in my mind, I've kind of liked JC Latham for a while, and I saw where oh boy, you know, he's not going to be there, and then oh man, he is going to be there. You know, it's the mock drafts, so just kind of guys move up move down a little bit based on whatever. But but I watched I watched that guy, and he seems to just cover people up and he is h He's a beast in the running game. He's a very very
solid past protector. I did a podcast with the Orlando Brown a bit of go and and that's who he had targeted. Like early on he felt like jac Latham was a plug and play guy. I had the same opinion. So I was like, yeah, that's I can see why you're you're thinking that way.
I mean, he is. He's just so big everywhere.
And you know, you play at Alabama, you're playing in the SEC, you're playing against the good ones, and I mean you're always going to find a game or a series or a half in a game. It was like, what's that all about? Well, I mean you that's one microcosm of a brilliant career. Everybody has bad series of games or bad whatever, unless you're like Anthony Munos or something like that. But I don't even think lost a
rep in practice, never mind the game. But you know, and I think I think that that Nims is another one. I think if Latham's gone, I'd be okay with Mims. And people are like, ah, he's only you know, started eight games. He's got only eight hundred snaps under his belt. Look at Munhos, I keep looking back to that. If he's got traits, and I mean if if you were in an offensive lineman laboratory putting in all your ingredients,
that guy would pop out of the beaker man. I mean he is, like, he's big where you need to be big, you know, not trim, but athletic where you need to be athletic.
I mean he is. He's a freakazoid. He really is.
And I would not be disappointed if he were the eighteenth pick for the Bengals. I do think that this draft they were if they if they came to dress offensive tackle, wide receiver, nose tackle, interior, defensive tackle, zero technique, one technique, good guy, and he can pass rush. That's a plus. In corner, they can address those four positions. Dan in the first three rounds where they have four picks, if they put the nail on the head on those four,
the rest is gravy. I'm like, okay, the rest of the ten picks. Utilize them to make sure you move up to get who you really want. If the guy's there and he's only like two or three picks away, don't roll the dice, you know, go ahead and use some of them. Keep a seventh round pick, though, for I don't know a special teams guy or a guy that boys he.
Slide and I can't believe that.
I definitely want to pursue him as a college free agent, but there's going to be a bunch of other people that's going to get a lot of me have a seventh round pick to grab a guy like that, you know, but I don't think get rid of all those late picks. But if you need to move up in the second or third round, you know that they put themselves in good shape with what they did in free agency, and you know they're, like we've talked about eighteenth, they're going
to have good players available to them. But if their board dictates, I would like to move up a couple of three spots here to have the flexibility and the ammunition to do that. You know, I think is a I think is a good thing. I think they're going to come out with four really good players in the top one hundred that they've got those those draft picks, and you know, I'm not saying, you know that the rest of the draft is a waste. It's gravy. It's
it's gravy in my mind. Then you double down. You know, Okay, another offensive lineman, another wide receiver. I mean you look at the wide receiver position, accumulation of of of you know, draft potentials and so forth. There's forty or more players draftable, forty more players at cornerback draftable makes sense. It's that's
the position that's National Football League. I mean, there's a need, but there's an abundance to address the need at wide receiver and corner and you know, it's it's not the least a bit surprising. At the offensive tackle position. I mean, heck, there are twenty six offensive tackles potentially draftable. You know, but when you look at where these draft picks fall, like with the offensive tackles we're talking about first round, is there's not a good number of guys again until
the fourth round and then in the seventh round. You know, what do you think, Okay, defensive tackle, there's one or two guys. I think in the defensive tackle position, there are going to be more drafted in this draft than there have been in prior drafts in terms of number,
but not top end. But you know, a guy or two maybe in the first round, but in the seventh round going to have a half a dozen of more in the second round where the Bengals might target, there's going to be a half a dozen or more.
You know, it's like that.
I think I think this draft could potentially, you know, sift out in a pretty decent form.
The for the Cincinnati Bengals.
I do think they address the offensive positions first. If push comes to show, it's more of an offensive draft to me than a defensive draft. But you know a lot of people say, well that's the case. You know, wait longer and address your offense. Take the better defensive
playerville And I wouldn't mind that either. But I think there's more depth in the offensive tackle and wide receiver position than there is in the in the interior defensive tackle and cornerback position, although the pretty deep at corner as well.
Let me circle back to offensive line for a second.
You locked in on Latham and Mims, who again on the consensus board with a fifth and sixth offensive lineman. Let me talk about offensive lineman number four, Troy fa Utanu from Washington. He's not one of the behemoths that you talked about earlier. He's not six six, he's not three thirty's.
A little smaller.
Some people project him as a guard, but everybody seems to think that he's destined for success somewhere on the offensive line.
What do you think of Fautanu.
I like him Dan because of the reason that you're talking about. I think he could play center too. I think it'd be a good center. I think I think he can play off of He's, in my mind, one of those guys. And you know, I prided myself on knowing what was going on at all five position groups.
He's one of those guys that I think an offensive line coach would say, look, you know, maybe not necessarily his rookie year, they may just zero in on a position groups, but maybe into his once he's comfortable and into his rookie year. Maybe in the first few games. Look, I want you to really start to broaden your horizon here in terms of you know, when you're pulling, know what's happened? Is the center reaching the tackle blocking? Now
what's going on? Because I want you to be able to be a guy that I can plug and play potentially anywhere in the offensive line, and you know there's value to that. I know that helped me play the length of time I played in the National Football League. As the old saying goes, the more you can do, you know it's going to help you. And I think he's got that type of athletic ability and mentality to be able to do that.
On the consensus board, the top two defensive tackles or Byron Murphy of Texas and Johnny Newton of Illinois. Either is a DJ reader type. These are not nose tackles. These are roughly six feet tall, three hundred pound penetrating three technique type guys. Do you have a preference between Byron Murphy and Johnny Newton?
I like them both, but Murphy to me is he's a little bit more freakish, you know, I mean the things that he can do. When you look at him, he's not he doesn't look to be that big until you really start to digest him and then you realize that he is really that big. But his both of their get offs are extraordinary. And you know, I know, like from my rookie experience going against Mike Reid that he wasn't the biggest guy in that he wasn't the
biggest cat in the zoo. But man explosive, you know, suddenness, It's like oh jeez, he's on you so quickly and packs of punch because of that. You know, both of those guys, you know, remind me of that type of that type of player. I think they're both going to have success in the National Football League. I don't think there's any any question about that. I'm not sure you know that the Bengals, if they slide to eighteen, I think they have to.
Be talked about one of them.
I mean, if it happens like you said, Dan, you don't know. I mean, the quarterback position, as is always the case, is the most important position in the league, and they are involved with every snap, making the decisions.
On every snap, so you know they're gonna move up.
I mean, he might have a guy that's the twentyeth best players you're rating players, but because he's a quarterback, he can still go in the top ten or even higher, you know. I mean that's the nature of the beast. And I think there are other positions in this throwing year of the National Football League, you know. I do think edge rushers, cornerbacks, wide receivers, offensive tackles, their importance
is all jumped up as a result as well. I mean, I think guys climb the board for that reason as well. So besides the quarter back position, which will naturally, you know, the cream will rise to the top, and not necessarily really good cream, you know, cream that's almost turning bad still goes to the top. But how many how many of the other positions we're talking about, how many of those guys are Boy, there's the run. I got to be part of that run. I can't miss out on
the top end of this deep position group. There is still there's depth, but there's a little drop off there, you know, from this this group to this group. So it'll all all depend on when the runs happen and how they happen. I do think that no matter what I mean, if they go offensive tackle, if they go wide receiver, if they go corner, they're going to get
a good player. They're gonna get a good player. I do think it would have to be one of these two defensive tackles to slide to eighteen for them to consider. You know, that position group. You know, Sweat might have been before he had his Now he's sweating it out because he's you know, made mistake, that off the field mistake that could cost him a good good bit of cash. That one will be interesting if he falls to eighteen in the second round.
What do they do.
I mean, you scratch scratch a little bit on that, but I think I think they address address things in a different way potentially, But that he he unfortunately made a bad mistake, not only a bad mistake, but a bad mistake at the wrong time in his life.
I'm with you, by the way, Murphy over Newton by a smidge.
Love them both. But Newton had the.
Broken foot, so that, you know, didn't allow him to test going into this draft. Murphy was on that Bruce Feldman Freak list that comes out every year before the college football season, where he was one of the top one hundred freaks in the country. Last year, number eighteen on the list ran a four eight seven forty at three hundred pounds.
It's amazing. I mean that that explosiveness is just unbelievable. I bet his I haven't really seen broken down his ten yard time even I don't even think they measured the five yard but in my mind five yard area for a guy like that is I think he's maybe amongst the quickest there is in the country at any position. He is just so his get off is so explosive.
All right, the obligatory brock Bowers discussion. Now, if you remove the quarterbacks, he is one of the top ten players on everybody's big board. So in order for him to be there for the Bengals, at least five quarterbacks would probably need to be taken before the eighteenth pick. If he's there with Mike Kasicki, Tanner Hudson, and Drew Sample on the current roster, would you draft brock Powers.
I'd have to give it strong consideration. I think he's going to He's one of those guys Dan that in my mind, he's not just a tight end. He's a slot receiver and a big one. They can run. I mean he runs for fourish at two hundred and thirty plus pounds. That's a I mean they would give him those Jets sweeps and he'd run right from guys in the sec you know, and I'm like, Wow.
That's that's a He's a very very unique weapon.
Sometimes guys with that kind of speed when they when they run their routes there it doesn't kind of I thought he was fast, it doesn't show up in the route running. He's a guy that his speed shows up running routes. He doesn't slow down, in other words, to make his cuts, sinker tips getting out of his cuts and all that.
Sort of thing.
He is a weapon, and I think that whoever gets him is getting an extremely special player. I would definitely have to think about that long and hard. If Brought Bowers is there at eighteen, I think he just to me, it's you're addressing your wide receiver position and you're addressing depth in your tight end position. You know, I mean you're addressing depth in both of those areas with one
fell swoop. I think he's that kind of guy that can provide that type of a tool for a pawn on the chess board, for the coaching staff and Joe Borrow and everybody to take advantage of.
So.
As an avid listener to the End the Trenches podcast with Day of Lapham presented by First Star Logistics, I listened to your list a recent conversation with Solomon Wilcotts. He made an incredible point that I had never considered about Rock Bowers. Don't think of him as a tight end,
just think of him as receiving weapon number two. There are sixteen NFL wide receivers who are set to make more than twenty million dollars a year this year, including t Higgins, the highest paid tight end in the NFL makes seventeen million dollars a year. So if your top tight ends are paid less than your top wide receivers, you can get bowers get one thousand yards of production theoretically if you use them right every year at a
cheaper price. Especially when you get to that second contract, it makes a lot of sense.
Absolutely, the second contract is where you kill it, you know, because like I said, tight end Travis Kelsey seventeen you know, he's the guy Hall of Famer seventeen mil. It's just that that position group has not caught up with I mean, you have defensive tackles in the NFL making over twenty million a year. You have a lot of position groups
making over twenty million dollars a year. So to get him on a rookie contract at that value, and then even into the second contract where hopefully now he's been around for a five year deal and now it's like has he made a Pro Bowl or is he on the doorstep of a Pro Bowl? You're still going to be able to get him for less than these thirty million dollars a year contracts for these wide receivers, you know, and that in my mind is a huge reason, you know,
to consider that guy. There's the economics of the weapon that he provides, plus the economics that it will cost you. I mean, that's a pretty good case to consider him, very very seriously.
All right, let's talk about the potential that trade in the first round. If there was somebody like Bowers or one of the offensive linemen was a few spots ahead of them. If you look at one of those draft trade charts, in order to move up three or four spots in the first round, they would probably have to give up their extra third round pick. They've got two. The second one is ninety seven overall. Would you do that to move up a few spots if there was
someone you really like? Considering that there are going to be plenty of players you like at number eighteen.
Right, I mean, you'd have to consider Bowers is uniquely special if he's still still there after fifteen, and you're like, you know, if he's there at fifteen, like you said, you move up three spots and give up third round pick to do it. I mean that's where the rubber meets the road. I mean, that's a big decision because you you're going to get a good football player at one of those four positions that we're talking about, offensive tackle,
wide receiver, you know, nose tackle, or corner. So that's that's let's put it this way. In the last twenty five years, the Bengals haven't moved up in the first round. They've moved back twice since twenty ten, but haven't moved up at all. Now again they have they've been unfortunately, they have been pretty high in the draft anyway, and the reason to move up and moving up from when they were good, moving up from the back end is difficult, you know, to move up to near the top ten.
So at eighteen it's costly, but it's not as costly as it would be, you know, other years. So that is I mean, all of that. You can throw all that, all that into a computer that you want to, but you have to have it's a gut it's a gut field, it's a gut check. What do you what's the comp to this guy? Is there a comp to this guy? Does this guy provide such a unique weapon opportunity that you know, gosh, he really doesn't have a comp. His comp might be, you know, an all Pro receiver and
an all Pro tight end. You know, uh, put them together and you got you got the comp to Brock Bowers. You know, it's like, wow, what I mean, who is who is this guy's comp? And while I'm thinking about that, Uh, Bill Tobin came to mind, you know. I mean he was great at doing this type of thing. He had a great gut for this type of a great feel. I mean, Mike Brown has said many times whenever Bill Tobin spoke about a player, that was, you know, the
voice of God in terms of football evaluation. And the Bengals in the National Football League recently lost a heck of a man as fine a man as I have a med Dan and his son Dude could cut from the same cloth. I mean, the Tobin family has been good to us, and they've been good to the National Football League. And so I think about Bill Tobin around this time of year every year, and then this year a sad situation.
We lost a.
Great one there. But those kind of guys like a Bill Tobin with that type of you know, that that type of confidence in what he's seeing and being able to make a decision based on his gut, and not every one of them are going to be right. That's the thing you hate to You hate to make a mistake, and if it costs you a top one hundred pick, it's a costly mistake. So you have to you definitely, you definitely have to feel you know, not just like sixty percent right. You have to be up there. It
has to be an extremely high percentage. You have to feel like, you know, nine times out of ten, I'm doing this, man, I'm on this. This is this is This is a no brainer to me. You know, other people may rip it apart, and there's there's always going to be somebody just for the sake of being contrarian. There's going to be people out there that are going to take the other side and bash you to death or whatever. But you have to have a confidence in your eyes and your football acumen and make a call.
Which is why I will give a flat out no to giving up that third round pick to move up a few spots. I don't think it's worth it. The draft is always a crapshoot. Injuries happen, you never know what's going to happen. Guys that you think are a sure thing often aren't sure things. I'd go back a few spots to get an extra third round pick. I would not go up. The one exception would be for
a quarterback. If I was in a situation where I desperately needed a quarterback and the class was good and I felt like I've got a really good chance that this guy's going to be my quarterback, then I'd do it.
For virtually any other position, I'm not doing.
It, Yeah, I would tend to regrue and the Bengals. Obviously, I haven't moved up in the first round for twenty five years. That's their thought process. I mean, it has to be something that is so incredibly you know, obvious to everybody that it has to happen, but and brought by is probably you know a guy that you might because let's face it, in the twenty five years, there have been a litany of opportunities for them to move up.
I mean, people are, you know, testing the waters all day every day with every team in the National Football League for trades, some more than others. But there's obviously been been times where, you know, the Bengals have been afforded an opportunity and decided not to do it. I agree, I do think. I do think when you're in the top hundred, that's good draft capital and you don't waste it. You don't waste it.
Yeah, I start considering moving up when the cost is fourth round or late. I'm not giving up a third or obviously a first or second.
I agree, I agree.
I mean day one, day two draft picks or you know, and you'll see there's there's always going to be examples of oh, well, you know, so and so it was a seventh, so and so it's a sixth. But you're talking about a small number in the bi big stratosphere, the big universe of the National Football League. You're always going to find somebody that is, you know, different than the norm, but you're not going to find a whole
bunch of them. So yeah, I mean, I think, I think being prudent and judicious with those over the long haul, there's always going to be somebody there that is going to give you value at that pick. You know, it's like, I just if if you for some reason, if you have a roster that's incredible, and you you know, you want to give up a third round pick because you only have like one one need to fill and you want to address it in the second and third round.
You want to move up in the third round to address this one need I'm talking about, Like the odds of this happened is one, and I don't know how many gazillion I think. I think it's it's very very rare that I would consider doing that.
Just because Tom Brady was the one hundred and ninety ninth pick in the draft, that does not mean that all picks number one ninety nine are great.
Yep.
According to the various big boards, there's a good chance that the third or fourth best cornerback will be there, Nate Wiggins of Clemson, Cooper Dijon or Djene of Iowa. The fourth, fifth, or sixth wide receiver could be there. Brian Thomas from LSU, Lad McConkey of Georgia, Ad Mitchell from Texas. Is it a long shot to think that pick number eighteen is going to be one of those guys?
I don't.
I don't think it's a long shot. I think those guys are That's that's why I think this draft is so unique. It's like I think, when the Bengals to get to eighteen, there's going to be maybe four options. There's going to be an option to each one of those positions. And now it's like, Okay, we spend all this time stacking our board, and you know what, no board in the UH, in the NFL is identical on team by team basis. Why because every board there is need involved. I don't give a damn what they say
board based on bull crap, Mama. I mean there's there's definite need. There's definite need. I mean some teams have that need a quarterback. Some teams have quarterbacks much stacked much differently on their board than teams that don't. I mean, let's face it, not everybody's gonna have five quarterbacks going in the top half of the first round. Potentially they're gonna say, I'm gonna go buy my real true evaluation in this quarterback position. And this guy is not even
a top fifteen guy on the big board. I'm not gonna put him in the top one. But teams that it's based on need, that's that's just the nature of the beast. So there are gonna be again, depending on when the runs happen at these positions. It's you think, you know, people might say, you mean to tell me that the sixth offensive tackle is better than the second defensive tackle at number eighteen, Are you kidding? No, not kidding. I mean, based on the tape, that's what I'm saying.
You know, it's it might not be a huge difference. And the sixth offensive tackle, the fourth corner, you know, whatever.
The case may be.
They may all be there and I may have them on my board like Bank Bank, They're all right there. They're all in the same little cluster, same little clump. So now you have to go to whatever's going to be the differentiator man, high character guy. This guy, I mean everybody, everybody I talked to has nothing they get to say about this guy. This guy has a little flying annoying with this. I mean, now you're talking about, you know, nitpicking, and that's what it might come down to.
So we've been focused on pick number eighteen.
The Bengals also have number forty nine, that's their second round pick. They've got two picks in the third eighty and ninety seven. So for out of the top one hundred, do you have some favorites, some guys you like after round one?
You know, I haven't really kind of zeroed in. Honestly, if if for whatever reason, the Bengals do don't take a tackle at at eighteen and I don't think this guy is going to fall to the middle of the second round, but a guy that might be in the second round, they might think about moving up for Patrick Paul out of Houston.
He could be there with their second round.
Bit he could yeah, and they may have to move up a little bit for him.
I mean, if if they could get if they don't go tackle in the first round, that that's a guy in the in the in the second round that you know that I I would I would think, yeah, you know that that could make some sense. Javon Baker out of Central Florida as a as wide receiver yet wide receiver possibly you know, in in the third round. Uh for defensive line, interior defensive lineman in the in the second round. Uh if I like Fisk a lot I like uh. I like Jenkins out of Michigan, I like
Fisk out of Florida State. You know, those couple of guys potentially in the in the second round for an interior de defensive tackling the third round, Smith out of LSU, Jackson McKinley Jackson out of Texas A and m those guys potentially, you know, as third round guys. I've those are guys that I've thought about, you know, maybe a little bit.
I don't know, it's it's.
I've focused most of my attention, as you can tell, on the interior offensive and defensive line.
A guy that I.
Really like a lot is man Darius Robinson out of Missouri edge guy. And that's not a huge I mean that's the Bengals are in good shape, but you can always use another edge guy. The thing is, you know, when you when you look at it, I mean edge
rushers the seventh round. There's there could be ten to twelve guys still available off the edge in the seventh round because it's such a plentiful position because of the way the national foot in college football, in the National Football League, you know, structures itself now, you know, I mean you might be able to might be able to get a good end guy in the third or fourth round. There could be ten guys available in that third and fourth round, you know, front edge guy. So I'm saying
this draft I think is so deep. I think they're gonna be with there are what two or three teams down, they have eleven picks and the Bengals have ten.
They were amongst, you know, the league leaders.
With having that draft capital going into this particular drafts as well fortified as it is, I think it's a good thing.
I wrote down some names for guys I like after round one, and you named two of them. Chris Jenkins from Michigan aka the Mutant. His dad is a four time pro bowler. His dad is sixty pounds heavier, but Chris Jenkins, the defensive tackles about three hundred pounds. I also like Mason Smith from LSU. There aren't a lot of tall defensive.
Linemen in this crowd.
He's six five, three h six coming off in ACL from a couple of years ago, but I think he might be there with their first third round pick. I also like Mike Hall from Ohio State. Twenty years old. Ran a four to seven five forty two hundred and ninety nine pounds, was excellent in the Senior and we know that the Bengals.
Have liked Ohio State players, so that might be a name to keep an eye on.
What about a corner, Dan, I have a guy in the third round Max Melton, not of Rutgers, potentially as there. I mean, that's a guy that I've kind of said, hey, if he's a I mean the fourth round again, there's I mean third, fourth, and fourth, fifth and sixth round corners we're looking at, like, you know, a dozen and a half guys available, eighteen to twenty guys that you can choose from some point in time in those three rounds.
So in my mind that might be a good targeting point for the cornerback position.
Yeah.
I had Max Melton down ran a four to three nine forty block several punts at Rutgers number sixty three on the Dane Brugler board, So might he.
Be there at eighty maybe.
Would be my favorite non first round pick in this draft is cornerback Mikey Saintras still of Michigan. He's Mike Hilton two point zero. He's undersized five to nine, one hundred and eighty two pounds, but a two time captain six picks last year two pick six is every time I turned on the TV and watched Michigan last year, he was making big plays. Might he be there at forty nine in the second round?
Yeah?
Maybe?
And I don't know if the Bengals had pulled the trigger. But I love Mikey Semer still.
Yeah, I mean, I've got him in the second round. TJ.
Tampa Lassiter, I like, but I think they'll they'll probably be gone by eighteen, but I do out of Michigan, Sam still the same type of thought Presssu then melting in the third round, and I didn't go as far as the fourth round in terms of the corner spot. But I don't know it's going to be interesting. It's if we're thinking this, you got to figure a lot of teams in the NFL or thinking too. And that's the thing. You get to a certain spot. There's this
cluster of corners, there's this cluster of receivers. There's this I mean, it's like it's not just a guy from each position group, it's multiple guys from each position group that may be worthy, particularly like you say, we're thinking, oh,
would he be available if they're sliding? Gosh, man, that's the thing you look at when when the when the quarterbacks get pushed up in the draft, overvalued like they are, there's a trickle down effect that takes a few rounds before it kind of readjusts itself, so you know, some guys potentially could be affected by that, and you might there may be guys available. It's like, damn, I never thought that, dude, it would be here at this spot. But it's a you know, or it's a trickle up
or trickle down, whatever you want to say. It's an adjustment of where these guys were pictured by the mock people and probably player of Personnel department guys going into the draft until the actual pick of how many quarterbacks are gonna how many teams are gonna get suckered by quarterbacks, how many teams are going to make a run at wide receiver, make a run at offensive tackle, whatever the case may be.
More with Lapp in a moment, but first, a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future Proof Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. I wrote on a few wide receivers as well for
after the first round. Malachi Coraley from Western Kentucky. His nickname was the Yack King. He's been compared to Deebo Samuel did not run a good forty time at the Combine, but was incredibly productive with the ball in his hands last year. Troy Franklin from Oregon. He is a field stretcher, tremendous speed. Devontees Walker from North Carolina just like that
as well for three six in the forties. So those are a few of the guys that I'm thinking might be a possibility for a second or third round wide receiver.
I had Ricky Prol Pierre Sally should say from Florida. I had Leget. I think he's he's talked about. I mean, he's a riser. It seems like I had him as the third round potential. I mean he might go somewhere in the second round. But you know, and I mentioned h Baker Jalen Polp from Washington. Potential fourth round guy is somebody that you know, thought thought had some some potential. So there are going to be there are going to
be really good football players. And the thing is Dan the secret sauce of having a successful personnel department is this guy man and the offense that he got stuck in and there's less of that in the NIL. Now they get the heck out of there. And the NIL is an interesting dynamic. I mean to me, it's like as it made it hard or easier for personnel people to evaluate because there's a lot of the guys that would have gone in the seventh round their college teams
are saying, we'll make it worth a while. Don't don't go out in the draft and go in the sixth or something. We'll give you more money than you make, you know. And when you look at it, they get that kind of net money. They don't have to pay for housing, you don't have to pay for food. You know, alum might be given him a car. It's it's it's the grossest the net. There's no expenses, so competing at the end of the NIL, I think makes it. It kind of clears some of the waters a little bit
on the on the back end, the late end. But and I think it also it's like, man, this poor kid, he got stuck in this system or you know, no anything else says I'm out, bro, you're not using me. I'm better than this you guys, I can't stay here. You guys lied to me, you're not using me the way, or sometimes just a personality issue and the assistant coach or the coordinator, the head coach just don't hit it off and I don't get the hell out, you know,
So there's there's less of that. That, to me was one of the hardest things for personnel departments to evaluate. This guy just got he got dealt a bad hand. Well, now with the nil, you can discard and get three more, you know, and try to improve your.
Hand anil and the ability to transfer without sitting out of here. Take Charlie Jones in his final year, he said, I'm going to go where there's a quarterback that can get me the ball and I can put up some wide receiver stats.
Absolutely absolutely, I mean I think I think that from that standpoint, I think that's a big burden that has been somewhat lifted from player personnel people is like, well, his for his his measurables and his tangibles. It just wasn't the right fit. In my mind. The thing that you still have to really be clever at and have a lot of contacts is the intangibles, is the dude a turd? I mean, does does the dude want to compete? Is he like an uber competitor? Is he?
This? Is he?
That? So?
I think?
I think the Bengals, having as many guys as they've had, stay together for as long as they have, They've finished each other's sentences, you know, now, being with one organization all those years, the contacts they've made out in the college football world for a number of years, there's a lot of trust there, back and forth to evaluate whether a guy you know thumbs up or thumbs down.
You have just given me the greatest idea of all time. Just as captains wear a C on their jersey, I think guys who are known as turds should be forced to wear a tea tea classic.
I'll tell you, man, I'm still trying to figure out the best way to spell it.
T you are, I'm a t U R speller. All right, we have reached the moment of truth. It is prediction time. With the eighteenth pick of the twenty twenty four NFL Draft, the Cincinnati Bengals select.
I'm going by what I'd like to see happen, and I think Orlando and Brown and I are in the same boat. I'd like to see Jacon. I mean, will he be there? Who the hell knows? I mean, if he's not, it wouldn't. I wouldn't. As a former offensive lineman, I wouldn't be upset if they took Mims.
It wouldn't. It wouldn't hurt me at all.
I think a lot of people might say, oh, that's a little bit too rich, you know, potentially, But I see he's got some guys have you know, uh, a.
High floor and a low ceiling or a high ceiling.
Low. He's got a high floor in a high ceiling. I mean, he's he's got a lot. But if the Bengals were able to select jac Latham with that eighteenth pick, I'd be uh, I'd be a happy camper. Anybody want to join me at.
Camp Frank Pollack would like to join you at that camp.
Yes.
So I've done three three round mock drafts on this podcast over the last few weeks. Twice my first ground pick was Troy Fautanu. The other time it was JC Latham when he was there. If either of those guys is there, that's my pick. But I don't think either
one is going to be there. I just have a hunch there's going to be a run, and my options are going to be as follows, best offensive line available, Mims, best defensive linemen available, Murphy, some other guys as well that are interesting, wide receivers, corners, etc. But because I'm fearing that the top five offensive linemen on the consensus board are going to be gone, I will predict Byron Murphy. I have not taken up until this point, but as of today, that is my prediction.
Yeah, and that could very well pan out that way. And it's like, like I said before, it's like, Okay, you mean to tell me the sixth rated offensive tackle in most people's opinion, is better than the number one defensive tackle. I know I'm not saying that necessarily, and I'm speaking as a former offensive line in the ear,
but I mean I do think I could see. I could see, you know, would I have a problem if they took If there were five offensive tackles taken, Latham was one of those, I would not have an issue. If they took Murphy over Mims whatsoever. I wouldn't have an issue they took Mems over Murphy. I do think they need to address some way the offensive offensive a defensive line the line of scrimmage with that eighteenth pick, though, I do believe that, and I mean, if.
There's an edge guy that slides shoot.
Caught me in, I'm good with that as well, you know, But I don't think at eighteen I would go with an interior offensive lineman over the interior defensive lineman. I wouldn't do that. If the cornerback slides, I mean, one of the top four corners for whatever reason, would be there. You just don't know. But I agree with you as far as the line of scrimmage is concerned. I just hope the big boy out of Alabama's there. The other reason is we must be cousins. We only have one
letter different. I gotta be just a cousin somehow. I mean, take out the key, put in a P.
Your name has been mispronounced Latham over the years, no question.
I mean, uh, my football coach and man, you know, very old Bench Schwartzwalder called me Latham for four years and my freshman hero is because you know, he didn't know how to pronounce it.
But it got to be a joke.
And I was his captain for Crown a loud and he called me Latham when I was sitting across and he'd smile, you know, hey Latham what uh so? Yeah, I mean lay from Latham close. I'll change the way I pronounced my name.
If we dropped him, well, let me say, if they do wind up taking memes, I've got no problem with that. Like you said, he is the offensive tackle built in a lab. Yeah, he has eight time Pro Bowl potential. Uh And if that's the way the Bengals go, I'm ready to embrace Amrius Mims.
Yeah, I mean, I do think the thing that I am about Murphy is for his size, you think and the explosiveness you'd think that you know, really good push of past. He plays the run, man, I mean his pad level, it's almost like he takes a knee on some reps. He's on one knee to get under people. And and that's an explosive guy to be able to do that. And that's a an athletically and physically gifted dude to do some of the stuff he does on tape.
There's no question about it.
All Right.
We hadn't done a podcast in a while, so I pointed the lap signal into the Cincinnati sky and got several ask lap questions. We've covered some of them already, but here are a few that we have not hit on.
This is from our friend Strawberry Ice.
Oh baby, if Johnny Newton drops to the second round due to his foot issue, with the Bengals trade up to get him.
So that was the question.
Now I did a little extra homework to try to put it in better perspective. To move up five spots, it would probably cost them a fourth round pick.
To move up ten spots.
It would probably cost them their second third round pick to move up to the top of the second round. It would probably cost them their first third round pick. Would you make any of those deals in hopes of getting Johnny Newton?
The only one I'd make dan is the fourth round pick, for the reasons we talked about earlier. I really value, you know, those those top one hundred picks. I mean, you're going to get good football players with those top one hundred picks, and he is a really good football player. But I'd gladly give up a fourth round pick to move up a handful of spots to get him. But I'm not sure that i'd I'm not sure i'd more goods much more from TJ.
Hushman Zada's shiny shoes. If the Bengals don't select an offensive lineman in round one, how late can they wait to get the right tackle of the future.
Well that's a really good question, and you know, I mean Frank Pollack in the in the scouting department would be much more qualified to answer that question than me. But I mean, if they if they wait to the fourth round, I wouldn't. I wouldn't wait any longer than that. I can tell you that. I mean second round. There's not many projected to go in the second round, not many predicted to go in the third. But the next round where there's a cluster of offensive tackles to go is the fourth round?
Based on that?
Geez, I don't know. I feel like they have to spend one of the top one hundred picks on that offensive tackle. I don't think they can wait to go to the next run potentially of offensive tackles into the fourth round.
Here's a question from Mane.
What do you think of offensive lineman Graham Barton out of Duke Could he be in play at number eighteen?
We talked about versatility. I think he's a guy his dad played in the NFL for a good number of years as well. And you know he's got position versatility. He can play, in my mind, all five positions as well. I think, you know, he would initially be projected to be a guard, but I do think he could go out and play tackle if necessary, and he could definitely line up and he's a very intelligent guy.
Went to Duke.
I think he could, you know, handle the center position very readily. I mean, if he if he's there at we talking eighteen when I'm talking, I would not I would not put him in the eighteen category. I would My discussion would be, you know, if he's there for some reason in the second round, hell yeah, even if I took a tackle in the first round. If that, if Barton's there in the second round, he's definitely in the In the conversation.
From Jesse, if Amrius Mims is the pick, could he play guard until he's needed at right tackle?
I think he could. I think he could.
And man, when you look at that six ' eight six seven plus, you know the shorty at six ' four Keras at center, you know, well, Cap is six six six six. I'm saying if he had to go inside at either guard. You know, the two starters are between six sixth and sixty seven, between six seven and seven eight and six eight. I mean, this offensive line is the biggest offensive line in captivity before they make this draft selection. When they take this guy, it's going
to be you. But get better buy tickets because it's like viewing at the zoo. You know, you got the biggest group in captivity. I mean, it is going to be the Great Wall of China. And the thing is for the five offensive linemen have been on Super Bowl championship teams, projected starters. You got big, powerful, strong, athletic
enough offensive lineman man a Chevis. It's you know, it's almost like you look at what they've already got, what they did in free agency with the guys were talking about, I mean, the starters, projected starters, with the four Super Bowl championships and all the size they've already got. It's like, come on, Frank, don't be selfish. You don't need that eighteenth pick. I'm sure the other position coach, Come on, Frank, how much do you need?
Bro So? I mean, but what what a what a room that'll be?
I think they can sell tickets to when we land at visiting airports when they get off the plane, have them I'll get off single, follow as a group and have everybody pay to observe them get off.
You know from Bengals and Bruise, Let's give the interior defense or offensive lineman some love. Who are a couple of your favorites among the interior offensive lineman?
And why well, I know people think the kid from Oregon, uh, you know, Johnson Jackson will be able to uh he'll be a first round maybe late first round pick, and he'll be gone in the in the in the second round. Graham Barton, like I talked about earlier from Duke, I think I think he's he's somebody that you need to take a look at. Fraser Zach Frasier from West Virginia. I think he's a he's a scrapper man. He'll he'll fight you.
He'll wrestling champ.
Oh yeah, he'll he'll fight you till the end, and he'll fight you and bite you until the end. You know, there are eight eight potential eight to ten guys. Really in round three, round four, there's seven to eight Round five, there's another seven round six. I mean from from round three to round six we're looking at twenty five to thirty draftable players, So in my mind, that's the sweet spot where you go after, you know, maybe an interior offensive lineman. So I wouldn't do it with one of
the top one hundred picks. But after that open market, open game.
A question from Sean, will they target a slot receiver to replace Tyler Boyd or a receiver with more position flexibility? And in what round will they draft their first wide receiver?
You know, I think the way the Bengals work with their receiver group is everybody needs to know every assignment. We know, Dan, that's they pride themselves on being interchangeable. Interchange uh drill bits in the drill. So you know, Tyler Boyd could play outside as well as slot, but he was primarily a slot receiver. You know, Jamar Chase will go on the slot and he's outstanding. He's out
standing out in the edge. So I think they'll be looking for a guy that can do that, that can can line up anywhere and not have a not have a problem. So that requires a certain amount of skill set, but also what's upstairs? How much can he assimilate? You know, is he a guy that is going to be limited. Boy, this guy, you gotta plug him an X and keep it X split in. You know, don't forget about slot, flanker,
forget about slot. So I think you know that part of it is going to be a big part of the evaluation process of the wide receivers for the Bengals.
And when will they take their first I would say second or third r I don't see them going to Day three without a wide receiver.
Agreed, Agreed.
I again, I in my mind, if with those first four picks, the top one hundred picks, offensive tackle, defensive tackle, wide receiver, corner, if they can get in my mind, done deal gravy. Rest of the rest of the draft is gravy. And maybe we'll just do a little manipulation to move around a little bit. But at that point, I'm just doubling down. And I'm not saying they won't draft the safety. I'm not saying they won't draft a
running back. But I think I think that they'll say, you know what, I'm going to draft another receiver in round six because this kid has a shot, you know. But if they can get those four positions covered in Day one and two, I'm good.
Question from laslow flow with a needed nose tackle. What about bringing back Tyler Shelvion For those that don't recall, a fourth round pick in twenty twenty one, he was part of the Super Bowl team, did play some in the playoffs that year, but got released in December the following year. So that's his second year, which is pretty unusual for a top first four round draft pick in Cincinnati.
Yeah, and haven't heard Tyler Shelvin's name around the league, you know, anywhere else. So obviously everybody had the same, you know, the same evaluation of Tyler Shelvin that the
Bengals had. So I do think it would not surprise me that if they go through the draft, and even if they go through college free agency and they haven't found somebody that they feel like, you know, fits the bill, I think they will go back to the street and see who's who's out there, who's still you know, was released by a team and for whatever reason, nobody else has picked them up yet because there's not a big
market for those guys. But you know, as as the uh as it starts to dwindle down to okay, now there's we still have a little bit of a need and this guy's still out there might be able to work out a little bit of a fit here that
that wouldn't shock me. I mean, I think they're there's two areas of free agency, in the initial veteran free agency, which they did a great job, and then the draft and then college free agency, and then there's another round of you know, free agents that are still out there. And I think there might be a candidate that would come in and compete at training camp for that spot in that arena.
But I think we can safely say it will not be Tyler Shelvin. He was heavy at LSU, he had weight issues in Cincinnati. He was in training camp with the Titans last year, got released at the end of camp, did not get picked up during the course of the season. I think the Tyler Shelvin NFL career has probably come and gone.
Yeah, I agree, I'd be very surprised if it's Tyler Shelvin that they bring off the street. Like I said right before, you know, between college free agency period, that signing period in training camp, yeah, I mean, you get released in training camp and nobody else picks up and now I mean not even practice squad. You're available to be on a practice squad. You know it's nobody did that, So I think you don't have to be a genius to read those tea leaves.
All right.
Another epic pre draft podcast is in the books Lapham Wants Latham.
Yeah, that is the bottom line from this podcast.
My brother from another mother.
Well, the Bengals got the eighteenth most valuable player in the nineteen seventy four draft when they took Lapham hopefully at pick number eighteen. They're going to get a very valuable player this year and it might just be Latham.
I'd be all four it. I would toast that pick.
Here's a quick reminder that I'll post new editions of this podcast after each day of the draft. You'll hear from the selections from Bengals coaches, and I'll discuss the pick with Dave Lapham.
That's going to do it for this episode.
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more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast