Bengals Booth Podcast: What About Now

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subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Peter King recognizing my hometown prior to the last six Super Bowl sportswriter Peter King has driven to work with one of the two head coaches about a week before the game. He did it with Zach Taylor last

year and Philadelphia's Nick Sirianni this year. After reading about his ride with coach Sirianni, I shared with Peter the Knick's dad was my high school track coach and science teacher, and that commissioner Roger Goodell was also born in our hometown of Jamestown, New York. Peter took it from there and did some research before listing the most famous people born in Jamestown in his Football Morning in America column the day after the Super Bowl. He correctly had Lucy

o Ball ranked number one. He had me way too high at number eight. But in any case, my friends and family got a big kick out of it, and it's always nice to see Jamestown, with its population of roughly twenty eight thousand, get a little publicity. Now let's get to this week's guests. Brad Spielberger, who has a law degree from Tulane University, is the salary cap expert for Pro Football Focus. Right now on PF you can find his list of the top one hundred players set

to enter free agency. Jesse Bates his number four on his list, Von Bell forty six, Jermaine Pratt fifty second, and Hayden Hurst is seventy fifth. Brad joined me to discuss those players, as well as possible replacements if they don't return. But we start with the most important offseason issue for the Bengals, and it's possible ramifications. Brad, let's get right into the topic of Joe Burrows contract. He's not a free agent. There's a year left on his deal.

The Bengals have a fifth year option the following year. They could franchise tag him multiple times after that if needed. So other than never wanting him to reach free agency, what are the practical reasons to get this done now? Yeah, so, first and foremost, obviously you want to keep your franchise player happy, but that is, you know, more of a

non football related, non financial related reason. The big reason from a salary cap and contract and cash flow standpoint is, we know this market at quarterback is always going to grow and grow and grow. So the earlier you can get these deals done, Yes, it's gonna look massive when you first do it, but then a couple of years down the line. You know, Josh Allen making forty three million dollars a year now is gonna look like pennies when when Joe Boyle gets his deal done. So you

just get it done. And look the twenty twenty one class. They've got Trevor Lawrence, these guys coming up right behind him. So you want to get it done early because that market's never gonna stop growing. At the Super Bowl, Jamar Chase said, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit, Joe wants to sign a contract that allows him to keep his weapons. Nobody expects Joe Burrow to take a quote unquote hometown discount. So how did the Bengals pay him roughly fifty million

dollars a year and still have room for others? Yeah? I don't expect him to either, and he has no reason to. You know, Frankly, I get that you want to keep winning and all these things, but he is an upper echelon quarterback that deserves the money. That reflects that. I think the way you can do it, though, structure is always super important. So you know, we talked a lot about Patrick mahomes is ten year, four hundred and fifty ye or whatever number you get seen him thrown

out there, that doesn't really matter. You know, his cash flows were very weak in the early years. He was willing to do that in part because of this rolling guarantee structure where he was protected through many, many years of the deal because essentially each year, each off season money for him two years down the road becomes fully guaranteed.

So the cash flows early on enabled them to keep Chris Jones, to keep a bunch of players they obviously trained Tiree kill, but they could have fit that if they wanted to. They're actually twentieth in cash spending this past season, so that's a burrow could do it is you in theory you keep smaller cash flows up front and in turn smaller cap hits up front. But the Bengals had this rolling guarantee structure to say, you're protected for four or five years down the road. We're just

not going to get to that money right away. B All again, it doesn't have to say yes that, but that is the way that they could keep spending on other players around him in the interim. So did the Chiefs provide a blueprint by winning the Super Bowl for how you can pay a quarterback and still keep good players around him. Yeah, to a degree, I think they did. You know, this year was the first year where Mahomes had that kind of really big cap hit and a

larger cash outlay than the early years the deal. They kind of kept it, you know, near his fifth year option, you know, kind of reflect what that would have looked like if they had gone that route, which a lot of teams have done. The bills kind of the same thing. And they also just were able to push money down the line cat money that is with option bonuses and restructures of roster bonus and all these things. So yes,

that they did show the blueprint. Like I said, I mean, you're keeping a twenty million per year defensive lineman and Chris Jones and all these guys that you want to keep. Frank Clark made a good amount of money in the last couple of years as well, because, you know, because Mahomes conceded on you know, how he received his money. We are chatting with Brad Spielberger, the salary cap analyst for Pro Football Focus, how realistic is it to extend Burrow and still have room for both Tee Haggens and

Jamar Chase. You know, I know this answer is not going to be super well received, but I'm less bullish and less optimistic that all three of those guys are going to sign veteran contracts in Cincinnati. I mean, realistically, we're talking about probably one hundred million dollars for three players. So like, once you get into it, because I think Burrow's gonna get fifty plus, I think this offseason, Haggens

is looking at over twenty million dollars per year. And then by the time Jamar Chase is up, and unlike Burrow, you've realistically more often seen every other position, the teams will let the guy I get into that fourth year going into the fifth year option, so Chase, there is still some time left. But you know, nevertheless, by the time he signs, he might be signing a thirty million per year contract. I think he's playing the way he's been playing. So again, I'm not saying this is some

definitive thing. I don't know anything about it. I think Tee Higgins is going to be a very very interesting storyline this offseason, and maybe it does get done, but I don't think it's gonna get done anytime soon. I'm like burrow T was a second round pick, so they don't have the fifth year option with him. The same is true for Logan Wilson. We know the Bengals would love to extend all three of those guys if they could.

What would a market look like for Logan Wilson. Yeah, and so I think he is why I've kind of convinced myself we're not going to see Jermaine Pratt back and some of the other defendencive players, bon Bell, Jesse Bates, you know, because I do think they want to keep Logan Wilson in the fold. Look, I think he's one of the better off ball linebackers the NFL. I'm a very good coverage player and a good in areas that

matter in today's NFL. I don't think the top of the market the rukuand spent twenty million per year range, but I think he's looking, you know, in the fifteen to eighteen million per year range. He is one of the better players at the position, has been largely durable over his career, and I think also they've shown, you know, they trust him in every scenario. I know Prett was getting upset on Twitter and you know about not playing

on third downs and things of that nature. Levand Wilson's their guy that they clearly show he's their number one guy defense, So you know, are they going to go there and extend him early is probably a different question, but he's in that kind of second tier of off ball linebacker contracts. In my opinion, the Bengals do have pending free agents five starters from the end of last season on offense, Hayden Hurst on defense, Jesse Bates, Von Bell,

Jermaine Pratt, and Eli Apple. Who would you extend and how much would it cost? Well, my guess is miss would be like missing my choice. But my guess is that neither safety is back. Maybe von Bell I would be shocked if Jesse Bates is a Bengal next year. Um, Jermaine Pratt I think is not going to be there, like I mentioned, and then Apple, I mean, if he signs another one year, three or four million dollars deal,

you probably can make that work. Hurst is interesting, right, So the tight end market is very strange right now, where the top of the market is kind of capped by George Kittle and Travis Kelsey and Darren Waller to a degree, but all these second tier guys that are, you know, not the caliver of that player, are getting twelve thirteen million dollars a year. If Hurst wants that,

they're not going to give it to him. But I think if he's willing to settle for I don't know, maybe not you know, three years, twenty seven millions something like that, which is even below the market I kind of projected for him on our offseason projections. But I think maybe you can make that work. But even that seems like a stretch. Realistically, I think it's possible we see none of those guys back next year if they

don't resign Hayden Hurst. This is considered to be a very strong tight end draft, so that's obviously an option. But what about other free agent tight ends that they might be able to get a little bit cheaper. Yeah, and so I think that is part of it. Ay, the draft class is very strong, and it'd be there is some depth there. I got like Foster Moreau with the Las Vegas Raiders this past year. I think is a younger and potentially cheaper version of a Hayden Hurst.

So he's a name if you want to go real cheap. I think a guy like irb Smith is interesting, you know, been heard a bunch with the Minnesota Vikings, but is a good player when he's healthy, and you kind of, you know, just like Hayden Hurst, maybe you bring him in on that one year, three and a half of whatever it was millions flyer and then see where you can go from there. I think they're probably in that kind of bargain bid market, but which can work out a lot at tight end. We are talking to Brad

Spielberger from Pro Football Focus. You can follow him on Twitter at PFF Underscore. Brad. I think all of us agree with you that Jesse Bates is almost certainly not going to be back. What's he going to get? Is he going to be one of the NFL's highest paid safeties. I think I would look at the Marcus Williams deal with the Baltimore Ravens, so he got five years seventy million for fourteen million per year. I think Bates will

get a little bit more than that. So you know, I had five years, seventy five million from fifteen million dollars a year. I don't think he's going to get anywhere near that. You know, Derwin Jane and make if Fitzpatrick market. The baits is a very good player, but I think those guys offer more versatility. They're able to actually cover, I think in more like true man covers

snaps in the slot. They can take on tight ends, and it came to the number three receiver, they can you know, I think are more effected down in the box, making plays, rushing the pass or things like that. Um of course, you know, maybe we don't know if Batsis wasn't used in those ways. But he's a good player. He's a good run deepender. He's delivered some some crushing

hits in his time. But I think he is viewed as more of a kind of true deep third free safety, and those guys are just not getting paid right now as much as your jackknife kind of versatile guys like a Derwin and like a make a Fitzpatrick. We might disagree on whether they keep von Bell. I think I think it's more likely than you do. But let's say that they don't if they lose Bits and Bell. They do have Dax Hill waiting in the wings. They drafted him in the first round last year for that reason.

But how is that mid range free agent market at safety if they need to add a starter out of those guys. I think Bell maybe he is most likely, but he would have to take it. I think a deal kind of in the similar range of the one he signed, and that is the mid tier at safety, there's there's always so many options. It's such a deep position right now, where outside of that top tier you can find a lot of mid range players, you know,

good solid safeties life around Bell the first time he signed. Frankly, there's always that level of guys. So I think it's looking at you know, six to eight million per year for a lot of those guys. And I think if Bell is willing to sign for a deal similar to the one he's on right now, that I think since he should be open to doing that have him play

opposite deck. So I think they're different players that bring different skill sets to the table, and Belle is very solid, just like good all around player that I think would be a benefit to that defense going forward. We are talking to Brad Spielberger from Pro Football Focus. Right tackle L Collins ended the season with a torn ACL He dealt with back problems before that, never practiced on Wednesday. How costly would it be to move on and how is the market for a starting right tackle if they

had to go on that direction. Yeah, he's an interesting one. They obviously structure that deal with a lot of team protection with all these per game roster bonuses, which of course you don't earn if you're not playing. Um, they would save six million dollars if they called him, they'd have three point three three I'm in dead cap, which is not that at all. You know, it's certainly you can stomach that for trying to replace a right tackle. There are a handful of really good players coming up.

You know, if you want to get into the Mike McGlinchey and Caleb McGarry and Juan Taylor conversation, I think you're looking at fourteen to sixteen million dollars a year, give or take. If you're looking at kind of the next tier of players. There's a handful of guys that are kind of swing guys. You know, Jermaine a Luminoire with the Las Vegas Raiders. You can look at Isaiah Win with the New England Patriots, who has now kind of been shuffled around, played on both sides of the line.

Those guys, I think you maybe get a shorter term deal, one or two year deal for maybe four or five million a year. But of course, you know a lot of the time you are getting what you pay for. But yeah, the Collins injuries really are stacking up, and I would not be surprised if they try to address tackle. And I think those swing options I mentioned are intriguing. With Jonah going into his fifth year option, obviously he's

had injury issues his whole career. You bring in a guy that does have experienced, you know, George Fant another one with the New York Jets who's played both sides of the line. Maybe that's intriguing because you think, hey, this guy might have to start at left tackle for a couple of games for US next year as well. So everybody listening to this knows there's been a ton of speculation about Joe Mixon. Is it time to move

on from Joe to clear up cap space? Make the case for why that would make sense, and are there other ways to keep him but still save money against the cap. Well that the timing for that question is perfect, because if anyone hasn't seen Aaron Jones with the Green Bay Packers agreed to a pay cut this morning, and I think you're going to see Cincinnati with Joe Mixon, probably Minnesota with Dalvin Cook, probably the Cowboys with Ezekiel Elliott.

Point to that and say, hey, Aaron Jones a very good player on a deal that's very similar to you guys, and he just agreed to a pay cut. So I think that is what you do with mix And look, I think he's a very good player. I know he had ups and downs here, some games where he really splashed somewhere he'd kind of disappeared into a degree obviously, you know, not in legal trouble now, it sounds like,

but who knows what's going on there? And of course, just you know, people will love to talk about saving money and not spending a lot of this position. But in my opinion, I'd rather try to negotiate a pack up with him, chop off three four million dollars from his nine point four million dollars salary. I think cutting him and trying to go out in the market and get a player or drafting early is probably not the better approach. So that's what I would do there. It's

trying to chop a couple million off that deal. Big picture are the Bengals in good shape to be able to retain at least the bulk of one of the league's best rosters. They're in phenomenal shape. I mean, they are looking at how good their rosters and their sixth right now in projected cap space. A lot of their

veterans are, you know, set right now. Obviously we're talking about a ton of free agents and a ton of good young players coming up, but it's not likely they have a bunch of you know, Markie, you know, you know, Trey Hendrickson's not a free agent, or you know, you know what I'm saying, Like a lot of their elite, elite players that they view as the foundational core pieces for the next couple of years are under contracts. So they're in their phenomenal shape. I don't think it's a

question of whether they can do it um. I think it's a question of whether they want to go there and really kind of load up on this roster um. You know, they obviously that they they've been successful. But the question I think in their mind is if we go out and spend you know, just on Teagans and Jibburrow alone, we go spend seventy five million dollars a year on those two guys. Can we keep contending? And I'm wondering what you know if they think the answer

to that question is yes. As I've said, you are listed as the salary cap expert at Pro Football Focus. But obviously you put a ton of time into free agency and studying the market. How good have the Bengals fared in free agency in recent years in your opinion? Phenomenally? Yeah, they've been on a heater a million roster construction across the board. I mean, yeah, I mentioned Trey Hendrickson's actually kind of a funny anecdote. He was projected a little

bit lower on my board that offseason. He got the better deal, and then immediately I've played that deal, um, and I you know, I got poked fun a little bit for that saying you were low on him and he even better than the deal he already already got. So But no, I mean going back to like von Villin coming through now, I mean just it's all about

these smart, smaller signings, these mid tier deals. I love the Mike Hilton deal, one of the best lack corners in the NFL, you know, just just being calculated with it. You'd never You rarely win when you make that big splash and bring in the top free agent that everyone wants to know, the name recognition guy. It's more of those mid tier deals and you add, you know, the interior offensive line moves. I love bringing Carris and Kappa.

I mentioned Hendrickson for him, a great deal. Mike Hilton, like, none of these guys are top of market, but they're really really valuable to since Nati Bengals right now and it's they've been great the last couple of years. All right, final thing we started with Joe Burrow. I'm going to end with Joe Burrow. If they get this done, what's it look like? How many years, how much per year,

how much of a guarantee? What do you think? So I'll say this, I think his side is probably pushing for four because that was the standard in the past before Patrick Mahomes kind of complicated that for everybody, and I'm sure the team is trying to say, Okay, let's go to six. So I'll guess they meet in the middle at five. And I'm thinking it's you know, it does depend if he goes first or justin Herbert, all those things, but I'll stop hedging it and give an

answer here. So I'll say five years at fifty two and a half million per year, So do that quick mental math. But whatever that comes out to in a total, and then I mean, the guarantee of the thing is, I just don't think Cincinnati's going to totally give in on their structure and their ability to guarantee beyond year one.

So my guess is we'll see, just like you know, a Kyler Murray lest year in Arizona and a couple of the recent deals, Josh Allen around one hundred million dollars fully guaranteed it's signing, but a lot of the guarantees going through the course of the deal are going to you know, vest later. Basically they're gonna kick in down the road and this rolling structure I mentioned, so, you know, and we'll see how his camp wants to

you know, go about that. But that would be my guess is they try to get into that one hundred range and the guarantees and then it's yeah, about what I say, twenty two and a half times five would be the overall deal. As little early to do that mental math right now, I guess, but two sixty two and a half, two sixty two and a half. There you go. Worth every petty Bengals fans say, get out the pen and sign it now, Joe sounds good. Hey, Brad,

this has been great. Appreciate your time, Appreciate your expertise. Keep up the great work. Thank you so much. There's a bunch of great stuff on Pro Football Focus dot com right now, including a really fast mock draft simulator that then grade your picks. I used it to do the first of many three round mock drafts that I

will do between now in late April. I got a B minus for taking Utah tight end Dalton Kincaid in round one, a B plus for selecting Alabama cornerback Ricks in round two, and a C for grabbing Tulane running back Taje Spears in round three. My overall grade was a bus I'll see if I can get that grade up after spending a couple of days at the NFL

Scouting Combine. The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by Alta Fiber future proof fiber internet capable of delivering multi gigabit speeds designed to take your home, business, and community to a new level. Elevate your connection with Alta Fiber and by Kettering Health, the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. With more than one hundred twenty care facilities and fifteen hundred care providers, Kettering Health is committed to

guiding you to your best health. Visit Kettering health dot org to learn more. If you're like me, you can't get enough information about Joe Burrow and his rise to NFL stardom. Well, Scott Person and Sam Smathers have literally written the book about him. It's called From Bulldog to Bengal, The Joe Burrow Story through the Eyes of his Hometown, and it will be available soon. Scott burst and join

me this week to discuss the book. Scott, explain your connection to Athens, Ohio and why you chose to write about Joe Burrows upbringing. So. I grew up in Athens and I'm an Athens High school graduate. I've been following Joe on a granular level since high school. I mean, the story almost writes itself, doesn't it. I mean, it's an amazing story. I decided to co author it with

Sam Smathers. Sam was Joe's first football coach, so he coached Joe from third through sixth grade, and he has many, many stories to tell, so I thought we were a good combination. One of the many things I learned from reading the book is how good the other members of the Borough family were as players. I think people know that his dad, Jimmy, played in the Canadian Football League. Maybe they know he had a few games of experience in the NFL, but they probably don't know that he

was an All league cornerback at Nebraska. He won the Cotton Bowl, he won the Sugar Bowl. Joe's half brother Jamie, started on a national championship contending team at Nebraska. They're not the Manning brothers maybe, but Joe was pretty much born to do this. He what he was, and his other brother Dan also played at Nebraska's so Robin grew up in Nebraska. That was their hope from the beginning that Joe would play at Nebraska, but it wasn't in the cards. He really didn't get a lot of attention

from Nebraska, which Ohio state. Of course, he transferred and they went back to Nebraska again they weren't interested. It all played out that he was going to go to either UC or LSU, and again he went to LSU

and won the national title. During that process where he was deciding whether he would go to Cincinnati or LSU, I was speaking to Cincinnati's head coach at the time, Luke Fickle, regularly getting updates on Joe Burrow, and I learned from reading your book that his brother Dan played a pivotal role in Joe ultimately deciding to go to LSU instead. Yeah. So yeah, Dan and Coachoe down at LSU really have a bond. They really developed a bond.

Joe does not like being recruited, and so he wouldn't answer the phone calls from Coachoe, and so Coachoe would just call Dan every night. So Dan was the one ultimately who I think convinced Joe that this was the place if you want to win a national title, I want to play at the highest level than LSU as your place. We are visiting with Scott Burson. He has written From Bulldog to Bengal, The Joe Burrows Story with Sam Smathers, one of Joe's youth coaches. People say that

Joe has helped put Athens on the map. How did Athens and the athletes that Joe grew up with help Joe become what he is. This class that he happened to be in is the most athletic class ever to go through Athens High School, not only the boys but the girls. So I think there were twenty one twenty two that got sports athletic scholarship to college. So they were a remarkable class for such a small town. And so it wasn't just Joe. I mean he had a

lot of compliments. The Lorman Twins played at Ohio University, he had a running back he ended up going to Northwestern, So I mean he was surrounded by a really strong cast. Joe has been the leader of the Bengals franchise almost from day one. When did those leadership traits start to stand out in Athens? That's interesting. I mean I think everyone recognized him as a leader from the very beginning.

I mean when Sam Smathers met him when he was a third grader, he immediately said, He's going to be my quarterback, just because he has those leadership skills. He can understand the offense. His dad was a defensive coordinator, and so he learned how defenders think very very early, and so he was very good as as a quarterback. Zakaia Saltzman, one of his best friends, told me when I was writing the book that he thought that growing

up in Athens. Athens is such a diverse place. Got country folk, you've got city folk, You've got Ohio University, one hundred and twenty different countries represented there. You know, growing up in a diverse place, you learn how to relate to different people in the locker room. And so Joe is really good at relating to everybody in the locker room. And I think Athens had a role to play in that. So anybody familiar with my work knows that I love anecdotes. I love nuggets, and your book

is full of them. And I'm not going to spoil the book by bringing up too many, but I do want to spotlight a few. We all remember Joe's Heisman's speech where he raised awareness of people dealing with poverty and hunger in the Athens area. This wasn't something that Joe worked on for weeks. He basically scribbled that on a note card that day. Correct. Yeah, So Robin, his mother said to Jimmy his dad, about an hour before they were supposed to be over at the venue, Hey,

do you think Joe has anything written down. He said, you better go check on him. So Jimmy went and he was he just put a couple and he was putting a couple notes on a note card. Jimmy's not sure if he even used the note card. So that was very much. You know, I think a speech that came from the heart. You can see it. It's it's hard for Athenians like me to watch it without tearing up. You know, I've seen it many many times and writing

this book, and it's still it still touches me. Jimmy has the note card, correct, Jimmy does have the note card, Yes he does. That would be a valuable piece of memorabilia, that's for sure. Yeah. So Joe has his Heisman trophy. He also has a trophy for winning Mister Football in Ohio, even though that trophy does not exist. Share that story. Yeah. So he won Mister Football his senior year and he was being interviewed and he just very casually said, so

when do I get the trophy? And the guy said, well, there is no trophy, and Joe was like, what do you what do you mean there's no trophy? You know this is you know, so at any rate, he went home and Robin and Jimmy had a trophy made for him. They went down to Zones, which is a place on Eastate Street in Athens, and they just had a mister mister football, mister Ohiward football trophy made and they put

it on their mantle. I love that We are chatting with Scott Person who has written from Bulldog to Bengal, the Joe Burrows story through the eyes of his hometown, along with Sam Smathers. Going back to the draft, the twenty twenty draft conducted from Roger Goodell's basement. At least in the first couple of rounds. We all saw Joe get that call in his living room. One thing I never heard about was the scene outside the Borough home

when that happened. And you have a great anecdote about that. Yeah, So the high school organized a bit of a caravan after he was draft at number one, and they kind of snaked cars, just snaked through the neighborhood. They're in the plains and they were honking their horns and they were very excited and Robin and Jimmy waved from the window, but Joe was doing interviews, so it might have interrupted his was a little bit, but he wasn't able to

go outside and say hi, but his parents did. So I'm picturing the scene from Field of Dreams at the end of the movie where you just see the headlights stretch for as far as the eye can see. It was similar to that. Yeah, yeah, something like that. At the time of the NFL Draft, there was rampant speculation on the NFL network and elsewhere that Joe didn't want to come to Cincinnati. He might pull a quote unquote

Eli Manning and force his way out. His parents make it pretty clear in your book that that was never the case. Yeah, that was a narrative that they're not really sure how it started. I think it started when Joe just didn't want to be over confident, you know, he didn't he didn't want to just assume that the Bengals were going to take him, even though they'd had conversations. So I think it was just this humility that kind of led to some of his comments that he didn't

want to be over confident. Somebody picked up on it and just ran with it, but it really didn't have any merit. Who was most helpful to you and writing this book, um, certainly Sam Smathers, my co author. I mean he arranged interviews, he was a fact checker for me. He gave me anecdotes. So Sam is amazing. He has a garage. His house is adjacent to the Athans High School football field. A garage is called the Dog Pound because of the bulldogs Athens High School Bulldogs. It may

be the top Joe Burrow museum in the world. He does have people that stop by from out of state from time to time and knock on the door. But it's it's a lot of fun. It's certain certainly is maybe the best. I don't know, maybe maybe Jimmy and Robin's basement would certainly be up there too with Eisman Trophy. What does Joe mean to Athens and the surrounding communities. Yeah, I think Joe means a lot. I mean, it's a it's a it's an area that has struggled with poverty.

It's an area that has needed hope, and I think Joe has provided that that hope in many ways, whether it's through his high st and speech, through his philanthropic efforts, through the Joe Burrow Foundation, which by the way, there is a portion of the proceeds in this book, they go to the foundation, you know, or it's on field effort you know that he puts in. I mean, I think he inspires people to be their best. Not Everyone's going to be a Joe Burrow and play in the NFL.

But I know Sam Smathers says he's just as proud as of the kid you know who gets up every day doesn't allow his challenges to overtake him, gets up every day and goes down there and drives the forklift as he is of Joey. What did you learn in studying Joe and talking to all of these people that you had no idea about going in m You know, I would have to say I wasn't fully aware of how deeply embedded many of the people I went to high school are in Joe's life. So his basketball coach

is somebody I grew up playing against. One of the guys I grew up with coach Joe four hundred, four hundred games in basketball and baseball. In when he was playing youth sports. There was another lady who got him addicted to carmel apples suckers that I went to high school with Joe, and I had the same lament elementary school principle, we were separated by thirty five years. So again just seeing how many people that I grew up

with are a major influence on Joe's life. Another of the anecdotes that's in your book that I didn't know about comes from the National Championship game at LSU. We remember the performance, it was magnificent. We remember the cigar smoking after the game. I didn't realize he suffered a pretty significant injury in that game. Yeah, he did to his ribs. You know, he played the second half, just gutted it out. And that's Joe, though, you know it's you.

You're gonna have to drag him off the field, you know. You know everyone's looking at what Patrick Mahones did and we should give him kudos for playing with the ankle way he did. But I mean, Joe would never come out of a game either. So the book ends kind of with what I think a lot of Bengals fans are feeling that it is inevitable that someday Cincinnati will be hoisting a Lombardi Trophy. Clearly, you believe that from the time you've spent learning about Joe and talking to

the major influences in his life. Yeah, I don't think Joe's going to be satisfied. To me, he has that trophy. One of the anecdotes in the book, if you don't mind me sharing, this is youth baseball. They were in elementary school. They got a second place trophy at in a nearby tournament. They felt that they had been completely cheated out of the championship. One of the players immediately through the trophy in the trash can another one broke it over his knee. Joe was just very stoic, you know.

And Robin ended up calling the coach later on that night and says, I don't know if I should be proud of Joe or if I should be disturbed. But he's been in his room for the last two hours dissecting that trophy piece by piece by piece, and then he tossed it in the trash. I thought that was a great story, and it started very early that second place is not good enough for Joe, and he has a winner's attitude. He's not going to be satisfied until he's at the top of the mountain and the Bengals

are at the top of the mountain. Scott. This is an audio podcast but we are doing it via zoom and you are wearing Bengals Super Bowl gear. Were you a Bengals fan or have you become one because of Joe Burrow? I have been a Bengals fan since nineteen sixty eight, So you know, most of us, Dan, I think, adopt the teams that our dad or our mother root for,

and that was certainly case for me. I mean, Athens County tends to be split between the Browns and the Steelers and the Bengals, but I can say with all integrity that I've been there since the beginning, So certainly the stars have aligned perfectly for people like me from Athens when Joe was drafted by the Bengals. So you were kind enough to share an advanced copy of the book with me. But it's going to be available soon. Do you know when it will be available and where

people will be able to purchase it? Yeah, people can pre order the book right now at Orange Frasier dot com. So it's Orange Frasier Press, so Orange fr azear dot com. It'll be available likely in mid April, all right, so we've got about a month and a half to wait and then everybody can join me in reading from Bulldog to Bengal, the Joe Burrows story through the eyes of

his hometown. It's a very enjoyable read. I mentioned a few of the anecdotes in it, but there are dozens and dozens of them that I will be sharing going forward on my broadcasts. Thank you so much for your time today and best of luck with a book. Yeah, thanks so much, Dan, that's going to do it for this episode of The Bengals Booth Podcast, presented by Cattering Health, the official healthcare provider of the Bengals, by Bengals Picks

and Ultimate Bengals. They're free to play with tickets and signed merchandise up for grabs by pay Corps, the official HR software provider of the Bengals, and by Alta Fiber future Proof Fiber Internet elevate your connection with Alta Fiber. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast.