Bengals Booth Podcast: Thinking About Tomorrow

by bud Light Seltzer. Refresh the game, and here's a quick reminder that you can add the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean. It's the greatest thing since Jenga. Like many families, we've played several board games in our house. During the pandemic, we went through a Ya phase and a Clue phase. There's been Monopoly and Masterpiece, but most recently the pick

has been Jenga. If you're not familiar with it, players take turns removing a wooden block from a tower constructed of fifty four of them. Each block removed is then placed back on top of the tower, creating a progressively more unstable structure. The game ends when the tower tumbles and the winner is the last person to remove and place a block successfully. It's not rocket science. It's recommended

for ages six and up, but it's good old fashioned fun. However, I do extend this warning, don't play fourteen year old Sam Horde for money. The kids a Jenga savant. Now let's get to football. We are forty days away from the start of NFL free agency and eighty three days away from the NFL Draft. Who should the Bengals sign

and who should they pick? I discussed those topics and answered your Twitter questions this week with my broadcast partner Dave Lapham and Bengals dot com editor Jeff Butch Hobson. Today we are going to play general manager for a day. I'm sure Mike Brown, Duke Tobin, and Zach Taylor will appreciate the wisdom that comes from this conversation. Our first category today is free agency. According to over theecap dot com,

the Bengals rank sixth in cap space. They could create some more by cutting some veterans like Geno Atkins or Bobby Hart, etc. Let's start with high priced free agents. What expensive free agent each of us would sign if given the opportunity. Lap I am going to give you the floor first. I probably spend my big dollars on Joe Tuny or and Sheriff Uh. You know, one of those one of those offensive linemen that could be a Bell Coyle. You know, everybody talks about how guards, you know,

aren't aren't that important. Well, in today's NFL, they've become more and more important. You know, they are important in the run game. And well, everybody talks about pressure in a quarterback space and the depth of the pocket is determined by the play of the guards in center up front. So I think the guards are taking a bigger and bigger role. I mean, everybody's talking about Will. Uh, you know Will the Kansas City Chiefs Will Will. They're big

defensive lineman in interior defensive lineman. Get Tom Brady off his spot. Well, you know that that's going to be a key factor in the football game. And how did how did Joe Barrow's injury occur and occurred with a with a guard being bullrushed, you know, in a game against the Washington football team. So, um, you know, I just think that those guys are proving guys. Uh, they're

they're both twenty eight years old. It's not like there, you know, they're they're through playing, they're in the prime of their career. I'm sure it'd be it'll be a bidding war. It would be big dollar, but it would it would knock one of the big needs off. And again,

to me, it starts up front. Um, as great as both these football teams are that are playing in the Super Bowl, and as great as the two quarterbacks are everybody's talking about, you know, will Kansas the Chiefs offensive line that's so beaten up be able to give Mahomes enough time to operate well the Tampa Bay Buccaneers offensive line be able to handle a four man rush, you know, against against Tom Brady. The five sacks that that the Chiefs got in the game that they played were all

on four man rushes, you know against Tampa Bay. So it all comes down to when push comes to shove, when the rubber meets the road, it's all about do the guys up front, you know, give give their respective teams enough time to operate or no opportunity to operate. On the flip side of it, I mean, it's you know, which which offense doesn't need adjustments to help the offensive line and to execute the game plan. And then which defense. Um, you know, let's because they want to, not because they

have to. And I think that's them that always determines football games, no matter how big or how small, and even it's going to determine the Super Bowl. So this just in the former guard gives big bucks to a guard. Hard to argue with either of those guys, although I think Schurf is twenty nine lap, but your point is the same. They're both under thirty. You're not getting a guy on the back nine, so to speak. So two still in their prime guards, Brandon Schurf and Joe Tuney.

You would spend your bucks on either one of those two guys, how about you? Butch U, I let's see now we get to do later. We can come back with a mid signing and a lower tier signing, right yeah. I have planned one expensive guy and one less expensive guy basically, so you could divvy up your dollars pretty much anyway you want. But I'm thinking each of us is going to pick one of the expensive guys. I'm gonna stay home and I'm either going to sign Carl

Lawson or Will Jackson. And given that they're depending on what list you look at, they're probably the top free agents at their position. So I tipped my hat to Duke Tobin and the scouts, and they were good enough to be number one on you know, be big on that list. Let's get one of them back, maybe both, you know, Lawson, we're talking maybe four years, fifty mill or something. Maybe Will a little bit more than that, but that would be uh. I guess you can't keep

both of them. I may have to go back and get a mid tier corner or a rusher. But yeah, I think i'd say, and I hear what Lap is saying, but I'm and he's he's right, and uh, but I'm banking on the We already had the big free agent signing there with Frank Pollock. I'm kind of thinking, in my own mind for the purposes of this Butch, that the Bengals could sign one of those guys and then another expensive guy. I could be wrong on that. I'm being a little conservative because I know the cap is,

the cap is going down, yep. So I know last year they spent what they spent two big they spent on two big guys, right, Wayne's and Reader, so I'd have to go for another big guy I got. I still don't think i'd go for the guard though, I think i'd go for I think I think i'd go for one. I think i'd go for another corner probably or maybe the answer for you is signing the two Bengals as your two high priced guys, Jackson and Lawson.

Probably probably, that's probably gonna be a tough number. That's probably gonna be a tough number, though, I'd probably And and do they want to come back? That's the other Yeah, that's the other thing too. But uh yeah, I think, like I said, I'm banking on him. Hopefully Pollock can turn some of these guys into Joe Tuney, you know.

And I think back to twenty eighteen boy and Redmond wears gads, I think, and they they ran the ball pretty good one five at the first, you know, for the first five whatever happened before it all went to hell, you know, the offense looked pretty good at that point when Frank was Frank had the lion. So hopefully some of his magic we can save money and not have to not have to delve into the into the guard thing. If I was going to pay a guard at the lap,

Lap would be fine with that. Yeah, all right. We will circle back eventually to Jackson and Lawson for me and Lap, but I will answer this question first before we move on to another one. You know, I thought long and hard about the tackles. Trent Williams is out there, a little bit older than you'd like. He's thirty three, but he's a great player. A lot of people have mentioned Taylor Moten of the Carolina Panthers. He's in his prime, twenty seven years old. He's going to be an expensive

free agent, no question about it. But I'm with you, Lap, I'm thinking sign a guard draft to tackle. It sounds like there are a lot of good tackles in this draft. Obviously at the top you've got Pinney Sewell, maybe he will be there at five. But I like the notion of signing Schurf in particular. I think of those two guys, Tuney or Schurf. People seem to have kind of pinpointed Tuney because he's from the Cincinnati area. He's from Dayton. Maybe somehow that you know, that'll make him want to

play here. But when it comes to a high priced free agent, it's always going to come down to dollars and cents. I would rather spend that kind of money on Schurf because I think over the course of his career he's been a great player, whereas Tuney has been really, really good. But I think Schurf is great. If I'm gonna PLoP down that kind of money, I want Shurf. You know. The thing that solidified the sure thing with me is he played hurt this year and he was

he was hurt pretty bad. He was dragging a leg around and he'd never missed a snap. I mean, he's one of those guys, rub some dirt on it, get back out there. You know, a guy like him just sets the whole the whole tone, you know. I mean, you have a guy that's the bell cow. He sets the attitude, you know, the whole nine yards, he lists the whole boat kind of thing. So, I you know, I think those are the kind of guys potentially that could make a difference. And I agree with Butch. I

think Pollock is going to make a huge difference. And I'm not sure if you know, if I'm Frank Pollock, I kind of I kind of look at the at the at the tape of the current players and to me, Jonah his best position may be center. I'm going to throw that out there. Jonah Williams may be the best center they have potentially. I mean, I would play musical

chairs if need be. If I'm evaluating the talent that the Bengals of upfront now and you know the now my center has got an ACL and how much, how quickly he'd be able to return, and how effective tried to go a plan B. I may I may think about even moving Jonah if I depending on what I get in the draft at the tackle position potentially, and or move other guys out to tackle. I mean, I

think I don't think anything's a given right now. If I'm Frank Pollock, man, I'm looking at everything and anything, and I'm going to try to get the five best guys out on the football field, irrespective a position, you know, and then figure out the position you know after the fact. But my five best players are going to be on that damn football field. So Jonah Williams at center. Eight people listening to this podcast in their car just drove

off the road without even being mentioned. Let's move on to a more bargain type free agent, somebody who would be in the mid range or even at the lower part of the free agency scale. Butch, I'll I'll let you bad leadoff on this one mid tier guy, maybe a defensive tackle, Shelby Harris from Denver, young guy, you know, hopefully one of these guys. You know, they love to get ascending guys, guys on a second contract. Twenty six, twenty seven years old. Harris fits that just looking at

the Pro Football Focus stuff. He's been the last couple of years. He's been one of the top pass rushers out of that out of the three technique, and he's he's also been very good against the run. He hasn't played He's played only like five hundred snaps I guess the last couple of years. But they need help. This gets back to why I wouldn't probably go for the guard.

I would spend as much money as I can on defense because and this is bad, because the last thing I'm thinking about is the Baltimore game, and I probably shouldn't do that. But you know, I walk around in a catatonic state and I just can only think defense. But of course they were banged up, you know. I mean obviously that was not the you know, that was not what they what they wanted to send out there.

But still, but I think Shelby Harris might be a nice little kind of economic pickup and maybe just a little bit A guy who began his career here would love to see him back. Cornerback. Troy Hill's been a good Ram yep, nice for you with the Rams. I think he'd probably be a pretty good number two or number three corner particularly. Uh, you don't know what they're

gonna do with McKenzie Alexander. I don't think he'll be back. Um, he'll can play in the slot and you can play the outside too, all right, Lap, do you have a bargain free agent in mind? To me? I think, uh, I think look what Butch is talking about is is another need In my mind, I think offensive lines their primary need. And I think edge an edge rush guy, a special edge rusher that everyone fears, you know that can be developed into something like that. You know you're

not going to be able to. I think it's gonna be tough to to go out and get in the in the mix with with some guys that are out there. I mean guys like Leonard Floyd from the Rams is out there justin Houston. He's out there. Alden Smith has got so much baggage. But watching him, man, he still throws people around thirty one years old, but with the

addiction issues and things like that. Judeon Dupree, I mean, it's it's gonna take money to sign these guys, you know, any one of those guys who'd love to get um, you know some of them. You'd make somebody in the division less effective by signing one of their guys potentially, and that always has some great, you know, value to it.

But I'm thinking a guy maybe, like, you know, the next level guy that might not be as expensive but was a first round pick coming in that maybe you could develop a little bit, is Tack McKinley, you know from the Las Vegas Raiders. He's out there. You know, he's only twenty five years old, you know, and you know, coming out of UCLA, he was a first round pick yet a big potential. Maybe maybe, uh, maybe they can

develop him a little bit. Maybe he can be a guy you know coming off the edge that it wouldn't wouldn't cost huge dollars to go get in terms of others that are on that list that I just talked about that are are going to be very expensive obviously, and that's why I'm not sure. I'm not sure if you know, the money to pay the guard would be as much as it would be to pay an edge rush guy obviously, or even the next level level edge

rush guy. I don't know what the what those economies are going to be, um, but maybe maybe a guy like that, you know, it might fit. But the corner, the corner idea is a good one too, Um. You know, Hilton's out there from the Pittsburgh Steelers. I'm not sure Hilton would be you know, super expensive. His style, he's a he's a great blitzer. You know, that's a big thing that Pittsburgh utilizes him. And again, it has to be the right fit for the scheme you run as

opposed to what Pittsburgh's asking him to do. You have to consider all that, take all that into account and evaluate all that. But man, through the draft and free agency, if I can find or try to help my edge rush you know, like Lsson, like buch was talking about earlier, you know, Lawson or Jackson. If it comes down to one of those two. I'm going Lawson. Yeah, I can't. He's the only modicum edge rushdown they had. In my mind,

you can't lose that guy. Sign him. And if you can find something else, you know in free agency that's not all that expensive, and as well as the draft, offensive line edge rush two massive needs in my mind, and then corner and other things come in later. Tach McKinley was here for about five minutes before flunking the physical. But he'll be healthy in terms in time for next year, so theoretically that could be possible. I was going to save Jackson or Lawson if you could only sign one

of them for the next topic. But let's delve into that and then I'll cut circle back and give my a bargain basement free agent. So Lap says, if you could only sign one Lawson or Jackson, his guy is Lawson, my guy would also be Lawson. I just think that he's ascending. The need is greater. I mean, they were the the last place sack team in the NFL, so I'd love to have them both back. If I've got to choose one or the other, I'm going Carl, how about you? Butch Yeah, no, I agree with Lap. He's

exactly right. Uh, you got to keep lossing and maybe maybe skimm a guy I McKinley, maybe even I don't know. Wha. What do you think about bud Dupree. Bud Dupre's out there? Does he fit? Oh? I mean yeah, I mentioned you know, bud Dupree, Judeon. I think those guys are not going to be a bargain basement. I think they're gonna get money. Yeah, I think those guys are going to command some dollars. You know, I mean Leonard Floyd, I said, Leonard Floyd,

Judon Dupre. And in a corner, you know, I mean in a corner, count Trey Wayne's there's your there's your free agent corner. But if you get if you count him as your corner, you lose Will Jackson. You're even, and then you lose McKenzie. Alexander You're down too. All of a sudden, you know you have to have three and you better have four. And now you're only talking one. Now, Well, it's easier to get the bubble, Like you said, it's easy to get the corner and the edge. Guy, I

think so. And if i'm if, i'm if I'm going to have a special five, a special edge rusher that everybody has to count for and and fears a little bit. And it's you don't. You don't need as great a cover guy. I mean, you know, it's easier to easier to take care of the back end of the front end is to getting taken care of on a more regular basis and getting the quarterback off the spot and all those things. You know, that's the fact. Like you guys said, Carl loss is twenty five years old. I mean, no,

he's he's in. He hasn't even started his prim yet. He's definitely a sending. The thing about him, I wish he had a little more length. That's the only negative I have on him. He's explosive, he has an unbelievable first step get off. You know, he's he's powerful, just not you know, if he had if he had Sam Hubber's length, uh, you know, you'd have something you're really really unique, but that he doesn't have that. If I'm doing pluses and minuses, that's the only minus, and the

Carl Lawson evaluation would be lack of length. Do we assume that Geno will be cut? Do you think that that's likely butch, I don't know, I have a high feel for that. I don't know. I just uh just it's just weird. It just it was a weird year with him. You know, he one back. Would it have to be negotiated down from nine million whatever he's due to make? Yeah, Like I said, that's I think that's

yet the play out. I The other weird thing too, is they're not going to know what the camp is until apparently the day free agency starts, So I would think that would be a factor. That would be a factor too. But I would be hired for me to think they're gonna have him at the same number. Yeah, I mean I would, I would think there'd be a haircut there, you know it. Uh it was, it was. It was weird as a good way. Strange is a

good way to describe it. I mean it was. It was a different, different year for gino Um to get hurt the way he got hurt and warm it up for a scrimmage, you know. You know, but I tipped my hand to the guy because I think he could have I think he could have had surgery. But he tried to. I think he tried to. I think he tried to grind it out, you know. And well, I think I think they you tried to do what he had.

You try to avoid surgery if you can. Yeah, but he could have had surgery, but you want to try to avoid, you always, and you don't want to go into a knife unless you really have to. And he didn't want to and wanted to try to rehab it, and they were they were good with that. Um and he and and and so doing wearing that big harness and stuff. He was so restricted, you know, he was less than a one armed paper hanger out there. I mean,

it's hard to play it. It's hard to play in the pits with one one arm, and everybody else has got two good ones. I don't care how talent you are, man, that's that's almost impossible. So I mean, if he's healthy,

that's something I guess consider. You know, Hey, if he's healthy and he's willing to come back at you know, a third of the price he's due to make nine point five mill next year, If he would come back for three million something like that, I don't know that you're going to find a free agent pass rusher on the interior that's going to be much better than him. Assuming that he's close to healthy, even though you know he's going to be old and toward the tail end

of his career. So if he would come back at a much lower price, I'd have no problem with that, you know. And watching him in training camp before the injury, I thought he was poised to have a good year. I mean he was. He was back to making a lot of noise and pass rush Field. Nobody wanted to go against Gino one on one. He was he was destroying people, you know, and uh he was the year before it wasn't like that, but last year's training camp

it was. So it's like Geno's on the bounce back, and then he gets the damn injury, you know, and it's not like, you know, he just was out in the street. Like we said, he practiced, He did everything he could and played at least he stayed. He stayed with it and stay whether physically and mentally, to the best of his ability. And I think to Gino seems to be the kind of guy that it's a two

way street. I think, you know, the Bengals have obviously they appreciate what he's done and the levelis played at, and they've compensated him accordingly, and I think he feels gratitude about it, and I think in his mind he probably like, I own one, you know, if I can do it, I want I want it to be in Cincinnati. They've been good to me, They've taken care of me, and you know, I'd like to I'd like to reciprocate a little bit. I mean, I think I think he's

toot from that cloth a little bit. He seems to be. Plus, if he stayed in Cincinnati at a reduced figure, he would not have to meet with the media after signing as a free agent with a new team, which we

know Gino wants to avoid. Right. The other thing about Gino two, if the Bengals don't bring him back at nine point five million, which seems unlikely to me, no other team is going to give him a huge amount at his age, coming off his injury, with his level of play the last couple of years, It's not like he's going to get nine point five from another team. Yeah. That's my whole thing is when you guys in Genos situation and they're you know, everybody gets to that stage

of their career, even with free agency. You know, teams that make a habit of compensating somebody for a decade of excellence with another team. It doesn't It doesn't work out well economically, you don't. You don't get the bang

for the buck. You know, whoever signs Gino, it'd be ludicrous for them, foolhardy for them to pay Gino for the great player he was for multiple Pro Bowls with the Cincinnati Bengals, because he's not quite that guy anymore, you know, And you can and you have to proceed accordingly. So yeah, I don't think there's gonna be huge dollars out there for Gino. I really don't. I don't think the league will go there. All right, Are you guys

ready for my bargain free agent? Yes? All right. So I've already spent huge money on Brandon Schurf with the few dollars I have left, because I've also resigned Carl Lawson. I've done very well so far in free agency with a few from the same page. Man, there you go, we spend so much time together that was inevitable. Lap. With a few dollars that I have left, I'm going to go out and get a slot corner because Mackenzie Alexander is a free agent. I'm just going to assume

that he does not go back. So I've been looking over the list of bargain type slot corners that are free agents. I've got two in mind. Brian Pool from the Jets, twenty eight years old, had good Pro Football Focus numbers last year. He's a little smaller than you'd like, he's five nine, but he's performed well in the NFL.

So he would be one candidate. If for some reason I can't get him, then I move on to Kwan Williams of the forty nine ers twenty nine years old, another guy who's performed reasonably well as a slot corner in the n FELL. I signed one of those two guys for a two or three years, and I've got that position taken care of. I got I got one for you two and that mole maybe Jason Varett. Yeah, I think he has a slot corner. He's battled injuries throughout his NFL career, but he stayed healthy this year

and had a very good year. Now I don't know where you'd classify Hilton, but he's out there as well. I worry with him. The lap is that he is. He's such a blitzer, Yeah, he is. Except for Jamal Adams of Seattle, there's no defensive back who blitz is better than Hilton. But I just don't know if the Bengals, you know, scheme would get that out of him the way that the Steelers do with all of their blitzing. Yeah,

I agree. I think I think you have to be able to extrapolate the player from the schematic and say, okay, raw physical abilities other than scheme influence. Is he still a guy? Yeah, he's not a great tackler, right. I guess that's the other knock on him. But I thought the one thing mckens Alexander did he can he can't tackle, He will do that. It was an upset when you didn't get people on the ground. You're right, and I

would have no problem bringing him back. I don't know where that possibility stands, but they're gonna have to have a slot corner. So whether it's bringing him back or signing one of these other guys, that's obviously a position that they have to get taken care of. Yeah, the one the one thing we do know is Leshaun Simms, Tony Brown, Jalen Davis got gotta get gonna upgrade from there. Lap Is Phillips is Darius Phillips a slot or an outside guy. In my opinion, He's more of an outside guy,

but I think he can do either. He's got great ball skills. And that's the thing. I think when you have the ball skills that he does, it translates you know, just about anything. Really. Again, again, I think a slot corner, by the nature of the position, tackling is a big deal. You know, that's a big and I'm not sure that's his forte Yeah, he just he gets nicked too. I think that surprise the durability of all. Right, let's move on to the draft. The Bengals obviously have the fifth

overall pick. Lap Who are you selecting or what are you doing at the top of the draft? Well, you know, I do think that if if If Sewel is there at number five, he just looks to be even though you know he opted out this year, but six five, three hundred thirty pounds five flat forty athletic guy can move a real good balance. I just I just think a guy like that is potentially one of those generational type players. Um, he has that possibility I would probably

go with the offensive line. Uh and if particularly if he were there, if he were not there, I might, you know, I might, I might think otherwise, Um, I might even I might even decide to trade back, depending on how far back I had to go, and if I still had an offensive lineman or or somebody one of these edge rush guys that you know that that could could make a factor if I could, if I could trade back and and and get Quitty pay the rush guy from Michigan, if I could trade back and

get him and pick up an extra you know, um, an extra choice, and so doing I might I might go that route if he were still you know, if the problem is that you go back, how is there an offensive line you'd still be happy with? If there's not, is there an edge guy you'd still be happy with, or a corner or you know what your needs are. But if I were had to stay at five and and Seel was there, I probably would go with with Seel. Where do you think butch I guess Seoul would be

the guy. But you know, the last time it took a tackle out of Oregon, I know it's different, but didn't work out real well. And I'm not. I mean Jake Fisher, the body type on those two, yeah, are so different. You know, one one probably and did end up playing tight end in the league, you know, and he was he was kind of like a blown up to his side. This guy is just a big old rob boned monster. I mean, you know he's not. It's I think they're so different in terms of, um, you know,

the physicality aspect their actual physical structure. You know. Okay, now how do they play? Now? I know guys like oh boyhee when they came in here that they're coming out of a seven on seven league. You think he can make that adjustment on You think he can make that adjustment. It's not. It's not. It's not chuck and duck up there, right. Yeah. I mean, I think I think that college football, I think I think pass protection is is one of the biggest issues adjusting to the

National Football League, you know a lot of times. And then guy, every everybody that's in the spread offenses and the two point stances, they're not pass protecting and they're not run blocking. That's what makes me nervous. That's just that's just what makes me nervous these guys. But I just I just looked at the h the power aspect of this guy. You're talking about Frank Pollock turning clay

into statues, you know, potentially. I mean, I think this guy has a good chance to under Frank Pollock's guidance to you know, to be taught how to play the game at a real high level in the NFL. I really do well, he sold me. Okay, I'll go as Soul, but I wouldn't mind trading back. I kind and I kind of ran through a scenario like this in one of my column to quar trade back and maybe and they should have taken a Sante Samuel in two thousand

and uh three, whenever Samuel came out. Now they can get his son maybe if they trade back, so they can rectify that wrong. If I'm not mistaken, they took Dennis Weatherby instead of a Sante Samuel. So let's let's get it right and then and uh and then we'll do it, you know, if you trade back. Um, and that's if you think, you know, if Frank likes those young tackles, maybe you trade back and you get a Samuel, get the maybe the edge guy from pitt um Weaver. Yeah, maybe, maybe,

maybe somehow pick off the guard from Alabama. Uh, you know that at the top of the second round with the extra pick, No Jamar Chase. I think your guy Samini's gonna take I think I think Samini's guys are gonna take this. So Rich Samini is the beat reporter who covers the New York Jets. You talk to him for a mock draft earlier today, and he is taking Jamar Chase with the second pick, and the Jets are sticking with Sam Darnold, according to ESPN's Rich Samini. Right,

that's right now as of that moment. Let's let's wait fifteen minutes, we'll call him back. I've heard people say that the Jets's gonna take Seul and have two stud tackles. Yeah, he's to develop their quarterback. No matter who he's throwing it two is, they'll be on his feet. What if you get to five and there's no Chase and there's no Suel, Well, let's let's say you get to five and there's no Suel. Let's start with that. So Penei Sewel goes somewhere in the top four. Now you're picking

five and he's gone. At that point, Jamar Chase DeVante Smith or Rashawn Slater, who most people seem to think as the next best tackle in the draft. What do you think under that scenario. I think you can trade back and get Slater. I don't think so. I'm not sure. I'm not sure I'm sold on Slater as necessarily a

top five guy. That might be a little bit of a reach, you know for me, I gotta watch more, But I mean for me to take him five when guys like you're talking about, if Chase and people like that are on the board, even though my need, you know, is offensive line in my mind, and I and people are gonna be, oh, what the hell are you taking a receiver at five? Four? Now you've got a quarterback who they made beautiful music together with, you know, an LSU.

The numbers were crazy, you know, he opted out this year obviously, but his number the numbers the year before and nuts, yeah, or or you know, is there a is there a rush guy? I'm not sure a rush guy, you know, is worthy of the number five. So at that point I probably do try to trade back and maybe people that have a different need than I do. If I feel like Chase isn't my guy. You know there are a bunch of people that jump up and probably take them. So yeah, that would be an interesting,

uh interesting dilemma there. I guess Chase does make me think about Chris Henry, Chad Johnson, and t J. Houshmnzata with T Higgins, Tyler Boyd and Jamat Chase, that does get me a little bit nostalgic. But I do think this. If the Bengals were to take Jamar Chase or DeVante Smith with the fifth pick in the draft, you are assuming that they have signed are mere free agent offensive lineman and probably a tackle you could consider a wide

receiver at number five. Don't you think they have to have the tackles solved before they can go wide receiver at number five? I agree with you. I think that is the case, and I would not as a former linement I would not be mad if they did get Surf and they drafted school. You know that that would not That would not destroy me either, you know that. I feel like, man, I've got my offensive line set up for a run for a good long period of time with a coach that I believe in. Feel pretty

damn good about that. Now. Now I got to find my edge rush guy that people are going to have to, uh, you know, really fear and consider and and everything else

that goes along with it. But I mean, yeah, if you could, if you could address the Bengals tried to address that tackle position with back to back piss picks first and second round that year, and they went over, if you can sign suff and free agent see and draft Seul, Yeah, and that'd be a you know, they double down on a you know, try to if you're going to address a position, totally address it. They tried,

didn't get it done in the draft. If they get one in free agency, then get one as a high pick, top five pick in the draft. You'd hope that they might have that bad boy sault for a while. If Sewel is there, I'm taking Sewel. I have never wavered on that. I'm not gonna waver on it now. I don't care who they signed before him. To me, he's a chance to be your next Anthony Munio's you know, who knows he could flop, a lot of the guys do.

But just on paper, everything we've read, everybody we've talked to, people seem to think that he is a virtual shoe in to be a great ten year offensive tackle in the NFL. If Sewel is there, I'm taking Sewel, But I don't think he's going to be there. I don't think it's gonna be there either. And you know, when you talk about Anthony Munos, let's think back to that selection. Half the teams in the league didn't even have on their board Bill Parcels wanted to drafting and couldn't. The

Giants wouldn't let him do it. So, you know, boy, you talked about a risky pick. But Forest brag when he came back from California after Anthony Munos had deposited him on his rear end, when Forrest Graig was rushing him in a drill and he said, we got to take this guy. He felt the force in the size of those big, old powerful hands on his chest, and Anthony delivered and the punch and all that. I mean, yeah, I mean, obviously those huge questions about the durability of

Anthony munhos Man have worked out sewell. I think when you have when you have physical freaks, got to roll the dice on it. Man. So four teams pick ahead of Cincinnati, Jacksonville the Jets, Miami, and Atlanta. We know Jacksonville is going to take Trevor Lawrence. Of those other three Jets, Dolphins, Falcons, I don't know if one of those teams will take Sewell or if somebody else will trade up to get Sewell. I just don't think he's going to be there at number five. So here's what

I do. And I haven't wavered on this either lap We've talked about this several times on previous podcasts. I am trading down, and I will tell you the team I'm trading with and what I'm getting in exchange. This other team will be happy to know that they're about to make a trade for the fifth pick in the draft. But I am trading down to number twelve with the San Francisco forty nine Ers. I'm looking at the old Jimmy Johnson trade chart. The fifth pick in the draft

is worth seventeen hundred points on the chart. The forty nine Ers pick twelfth overall is worth twelve hundred points on the chart. That's a five hundred point difference. The forty nine Ers second round pick forty third overall is worth four seventy So that just about evens out the trade chart. Plus they've got two fifth round picks. So the Bengals get their second fifth round pick, which evens

the trade chart. So I'm dropping down seven spots. I'm getting a fairly high second round pick, top half of the second round. I'm getting an end of the fifth round pick, and that's my deal. And then with the twelfth pick in the draft, I'm taking the best tackle that's left. Because it sounds like Sewel is, at least according to most people, far and away the best I know. Some people have started to say that Slater might be just as good, or maybe even better. I'm not buying it.

Sewel is the guy. But then that next wave, I think there are several guys that are thought to be legitimate top of the first round or middle of the first round type guys. I'm okay with that if I get a high second round pick. In addition, let me ask you this, let me riddle with you this, Batman. Yeah, if Suel's gone yep, and the forty nine ers say okay, we'll make the trade, and then they don't and you're stuck with the fifth pick, you know, at that point,

I'm okay with one of those wide receivers. I mean, I'd love to have Jamar Chase or Davante Smith. Who wouldn't I'm certainly not going to be unhappy, but I'm just if Sewell is there, I want Sewel. Other than that, you know, the Bengals have enough enough needs that if I could drop down to no lower than twelve and get a decent second round pick as well, I'm making

the move. That was my trade I did. I took Patrick certain at twelve, shared Weaver with the thirty eighth pick, and then it's okay, you guys, everybody you're talking about Sewell, Slater certain letters is big in this draft. Man trading back and getting somebody whose last name starts with letters, it's big. Not based on that reasoning, but all of those players are definitely good. Davante Smith, did you have him as well? That's another that's another ass that's right.

Does Smith kind of where he's a little he's an undersize speedster. Taking him in the first round is that. I'm just worried about durability. That's the only thing that concerns me. Is like a one hundred and seventy pound guy in this league. I mean I'm sure he'll put on some weight. But as great as he is, that is the concern. And he's and he's uh, speed is not it's not like unusually like Olympics. He's got good speed. He's so fluid with his routes. He's an unbelievable route runner.

But you know, you look at him and you say, man, he's one good lick away from from being in trouble. That's that is. That is the thing. The thing with him. I mean, his teammate Waddle is bigger and faster, bigger and fat guy. You know. It's a but Alabama they utilized him so well. You know, but at some point in the NFL you got to catch the ball in traffic somewhere, and will he be able to survive that? That's that's got to be the big concern with him.

All Right, gentlemen, are you ready for some questions that were submitted via Twitter? Let's do it all right, Butch you sit in on the Hall of Fame meetings, so I will direct Kyle's question to you. How is Willie Anderson's Hall of Fame bid coming along? I think it was a real shot in the eye this last year by getting into the final twenty five was huge, and but I was stunned that he didn't make it to the fifteen because I had made calls and all the voters I talked to, and I didn't talk to all

of them, but I talked to several. They think he's fit to be a finalist and to go into the room and to be talked about. So I think I'm encouraged by him getting into the twenty five. I wish he had got into the fifteen, but I think he will.

And I do think once he gets into the room when I and I want to meet, when he gets into the room, he'll be discussed, there'll be a presentation of him, and then people will have a back and forth on I mean, I think once his case has made crystal clear for a year or two, I think you'll get in. You know the thing about Willie, and we know this because we've been around him. But all the physical attributes are obviously apparent. You're watch it on tape.

But the one thing you can't necessarily see on tape you might be able to if you really study. You know a lot of a lot of situations where you know defenses are trying to confuse offensive lines and all that. Willie had a beautiful has a beautiful football mind. Willie Anderson, man was He's sharp as a whip in terms of understanding the game of football big picture. And you know, normally tackles just kind of tunnevisioned on the defensive end and block the end, block the end, block the end.

His eyes were always everywhere. Man, Willie Anderson understood the game of football big time. I mean, his mental capacity for the game of football is as good as his physical capacity. Man. It was incredible. Thirteen holding penalties thirteen years, I think pretty strong because he intimidated the officials. Who was going to throw a flag on big Willie? Come on? You know the thing? He was so damn good enough to cheat. You know, he knew if he applied his technique,

he was going to kick everybody's ass. Enough crab, you know, just gonna I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do. Trust my technique, as they say, And he trusted his technique. And who's so good physically and his technique was so good. I mean, he's he is just an example. Boy. He watched Willie play all right. Similar questions submitted by KB

and by Joe with the Bengals. Even consider tight end Kyle Pitts with a fifth overall pick, what do you think, lab Well, I'll tell you at number five, I think that's a little bit rich to consider, you know, the tight end position. I mean, you know, Kelsey is in my mind, the best route running tight end in the National Football League. You know, they can do all the

comparisons they want, you know who the biggest weapon. Obviously the quarterback is a big factor and all that, But just if you put on tape and watch Kelsey run routes compared to other tight ends of his size in the National Football League, it's not even close. He's He's just unbelievable. And the tight end can he's a tight end like this kid can be an influencer. There's no question about it. I do think the Bengals offense suffered

when C. J Uzama was lost in the year. I think that's something that kind of gets gets forgotten a little bit because he was definitely their best threat as a receiver at the tight end position. I think he's going to come back, But taking a tight end at the fifth spot, I don't know. To me, that's just a little bit too rich. Even if this kid's really good, there's no doubt about it, and I'm not sure i'd pull the trigger with the other needs of the Bengals have. Yeah,

I don't think they would. I don't think they would take him even if they traded back. I agree. Yeah, I don't see it happening the fifth pick in the draft. I mean maybe if you're if you trade back and you're somewhere in that twelve to fifteen range and he's somehow still there, maybe you would consider it. But you know, he's more of a receiving tight end than a George Kittle Rob Gronkowski type. That's a great blocker at the

line of scrimmage. If you're at number five and you're gonna take a receiver, take a receiver, not the best receiving tight end. I mean, I love Kyle Pitts. I'd like to have him, but I'm not taking him fifth overall. Yeah, I agree. I think I think if the Bengals trade back to you know, beyond mid beyond sixteen, fifteen sixteen, you know, the middle of the fresh round, I think they start to think about it. But if they traded back to like San Francisco or your deal at twelve.

I'm not sure i'd take him at twelve, you know, it's I don't know, you'd have to see what else is on the board. But I agree with your thought process. If there's a receiver there, take the damn receiver, no doubt. Question from Bengals truth does the organization feel Frank Pollock can fix their current offensive line? I think that they have a strong belief in Frank Pollock. Obviously Joe Mixon does, and that's a that's a big, big factor. And then

I guess that's the thing. I know that the offensive lineman that we're here when Frank Pollock was here the first time are excited about Frank Pollock's return, and other players that were here when Frank Pollock is here the first time are excited about Frank Pollock's return, and Joe Mixon obviously the biggest, most vocal one of those. And I think that's good and unusual in some ways. I can understand the lineman, you know, having that kind of a feeling for their coach, but he had an impact

on a lot of guys. That speaks a lot about not only Frank Pollock, the offensive line coach. But Frank Pollock, the coach in general, and the person you know and in the you know, the ability to form relationships and get the best out of people, and to get people to believe in what you're doing and trust you, you know, and have confidence in all those things. I think. I think Frank Pollock is going to do really good things here for the Cincinnati Bengalog. I totally believe that. I've

never seen it. I've never seen a player give a touchdown ball to a coach on the other team and the coach and the other team take it. Yeah. You know. Getting back to the question, does the organization think Frank Pollock can fix the current offensive line. He's not going to be asked to fix the current offensive line. They're going to be changes. He's not going to line up with Bobby Hard at right tackle and you know Alex

Redman at right guard. I mean, some of these guys could be back, don't get me wrong, but there are going to be changes and additions as well, and then they are going to be counting on Frank Pollock to maximize whatever group he's given. I agree, And like I said before, I would not shock me if Frank shuffles a little bit, wouldn't wouldn't shock me at all. Who knows?

But um yeah, Frank, you can't. You can't expect Frank to bring a big wand in here, wave the magic wand and make the players that were playing in the Bengals offensive line in the last couple of years a top five offensive line in the NFL. That dogging happened. Boy, that dog's been dead a while. Question from Bearcat Joe and a question from doctor who day these are tied together. What are the chances of bringing A J greenback on a one year deal? That was Bearcat Joe, Doctor Huday.

What are realistic landing spots for aj Green? What do you think, Butch? You know, I uh, somebody's going to offer him a good deal. I think I mean probably not, you know, not mega mega, but I'm sure somebody's gonna be out there, is gonna offer him more than a one year deal. I would think, I man, I'd love to have him back. I mean, I think it would be great. I think it'd be great for the team, to be great for a city, be great for Borrow.

You know, is that in the cards? I just don't know, you know, I mean, I guess and where I'm not sure where's landing spots. I mean, you know, probably for for a team that's looking for the final piece, something to put him over the top. You know, I don't think he'd be going to a team that's rebuilding, but you know, I'd love to see him stay here. It's,

you know, just to help Joe continue the progression. But you know that's you know, I'm not you know, that's usually for fables and I you know, i'd love to see it come true. Though. Yeah, we'd all love to see him back, just because we'd love the guy. But just everything he said and his body language at the end of the year indicated that he's ready to move on, so I think he will. I could see him going to Atlanta veteran quarterback Matt Ryan. It's home. Julio Jones

as a friend. They were drafted, you know, basically next to each other back in twenty eleven in the draft. That one would make a lot of sense to me. Yeah, me and Julio down to the schoolyard in Atlanta. AJ's big, big deal. I thought the same thing, Dan. You know, it's like, uh, go back to the state where you made your name. Um, you know, family down there, the whole nine yeards. It would be a be a graceful,

graceful way for him to put out on the back nine. Um. Honestly, when what you was saying, yeah, you know a boy, you draft a guy like Chase and you get Tyler Boyd and T Higgins, I was hoping it was gonna be Tyler Boyd, T Higgins and AJ Green. Yeah, I was. I was totally surprised last year that he did not

have a higher win rate ratio. He just you know, didn't didn't get open as as much as I thought he would, you know, and watching him the year before when he didn't play at all, you know, running on grass up at Cleveland, and it just goes to show you then, Man, even though you're running routes, change of direction, all that, it's not football. You know, it's not pads on, Guys covering, you're getting their hands on, you're doing all those kind of things. If the game is different, playing

the game is different. You can look you can look like an All American and dummy football when it's you know, shorts and T shirts. Man, you put the pads on and play football it's a it's a different dynamic. So I was I was very surprised that, you know, that he had so many games that were as non productive as they were watching him. And even at training camp, I thought, yeah, he's still you know, running some good routes, but it's still it wasn't it wasn't live football, you know.

And uh that's that's the interesting thing. And like you said, but somebody might offer them, uh something multi year for a lot less. You wonder if the Bengers would do that, just presence and have them around and doing the kind of things, because I mean, to a man, every player, every coach, nobody, nobody has a negative thing to say about AJ Green. It's it's incredible that is uh as is well white and well respected a football player. I mean,

he is literally in the Anthony Mounel's caliber. It's like nobody had anything negative to say about Anthony Muneos, not just because of the great player, but the great human being and that you know, AJ Green's in that stratosphere,

you know. Yeah, So it's it's it's very interesting and difficult to you know almost almost think like, yeah, I was saying goodbye to AJ Green, you know, very very tough, and uh, I wonder, I wonder, I wonder if the referee had kept his flag in the pocket against the charges, what kind of year would it have been for him? I think I think it would have been a I think, you know, it would have been a you know what the stories would have been. Aj never left, He took

over the game. He won the game. So you know, it was a perfect storm. You kind of you can kind of forget he missed twenty four games. My god, that's a lot of time. But then you're throw in the fact the rookie quarterback, a pandemic and a new offense. That's a lot of waves in the ocean. You know, you just kind of underestimated. In my mind, I underestimated all that. You look at the official throwing the flag

on such a great player. You know, a lot of times officials kind of like benefit of the doubt goes to great players. And you know, confidence is a delicate thing, and Aj is one of those guys that really, you know, feeds off confidence and everything. You wonder how big a blow that was, you know, yeah, I really think it. He takes everything to heart. Man. Yeah, I just think I think the whole I think the whole thing. You know, maybe I'm being a half full guy, but I do think.

I do think things change. It'll be interesting to see if he goes elsewhere, if his numbers increased significantly from this year where he only had five hundreds some receiving yards. I can think of one person that does have negative things to say about aj Green. That would be Jail and Ramsey from those Haymakers that he threw a few years ago when they got into it, back when Ramsey was with Jacksonville. John to have our close seconds, Yeah right,

that'd be another one. That's a good point. All right, one more twit Twitter question and then we're gonna wrap up with the Super Bowl from Greg. Will the Bengals address wide receiver in free agency or the draft? They've got to, right, they're gonna add bodies at that position. I just I just, you know, there's one thing that scares me. It's free agent veteran wide receivers. It just

seems like it's always a tough fit. Now. I guess they'll probably have to go grab a guy, but that always seems to be you know, I can't you know, you can count on your fingers how many times it's worth here, you know, I mean, I guess it hasn't the past, well, Greg said, Greg said, free agency or

the draft? Oh, I think the draft, I mean clearly definitely. Yeah, I think I think they're definitely gonna have to address the position in the U in the draft, free agency, you are, I mean you almost wonder, um if if the draft, if not, if the draft isn't fruitful and you're looking at free agency, where does AJ Green stack up in terms of free agency? You know? Okay, do we even think about readdressing Aj Green a little differently with respect to guys that might be out there and

what kind of options are left. It's kind of that'll be interesting. I think Aj is ready to move on, even more than the Bengals are thinking of moving on from Aj. It just sounded to me at the end of the year like he was ready for a fresh start. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right, Dane. I think to me, to me, his body language and the way he addressed everything, he seemed tired. You know, it was like almost time diagree, And that's okay. You know, he gave him ten great years.

I hope he goes somewhere else and thrives in the final stages of his career. All right, let's move on to Super Bowls. Sunday Buccaneers Kansas City Chiefs. Who do you got and why? Butch'll let you go first? Tampa thirty one, twenty eight at the gun, WHOA, I think it's gonna be Brady is gonna become Eli Manning. I think he's going to Uh. He's going to beat the Brady of his era Mahomes or like Brady about to ascend, He's gonna beat him. He's gonna beat the Brady of

this time. He's gonna and he's gonna do it with Kansas City's gonna um uh. They won't be able to they won't be able to get to him, and he's gonna kill him with the blitz Gronkowski. The MVP could be Rob Gronkowski or Cameron a break the tight end. I think he's gonna kill Cameron. Brake might catch a touchdown pass. He is not going to be the Super Bowl MVP. I see I see uh, and I see Burnett taking air as Fournette in the other back taking

a air out of the ball. If Cameron Brad is the MVP, I will post this clip and like an endless loop to make you look good, because that would be one heck of a call. I don't know what the prop bet is for Cameron break being the MVP of the Super Bowl, but you could make big money if you if you put something down and that turned out to be true. So probably right which bucks thirty one twenty eight? Did you say yes? At the gun?

Ryan suck up with a field goal or a touchdown pass by Brady to Cameron Brad to win it in the final seconds on his home field. All right, lap, how about you? All right? Well, Brady is thirty three and eleven in his playoff career. He's eighteen and oh when he has a plus turnover ratio eighteen, so fifteen and eleven when he's even her mindus, So, I mean, turnover is going to be big like they always are in Brady man in the playoffs eighteen eighteen times he

didn't have a turnover the football team he led. That's that's pretty phenomenal. So you know, and I start to think about Tampa Bay because I talked about the offensive line with Kansas City, they got four different starters, four the only guy that's the normal starters the center. They have Mike Bremers playing offensive line at the tackle position. The last Super Bowl he played in was with the Carolina Panthers and he was playing against Von Miller the

Denver Broncos. Von Miller at three sacks won Super Bowl. MVP. Bremers was a turnstyle and to this day he can't get over how bad he was in that football game. You know, and I'm looking at what will what will JPP and Shack Barrett? Who's Shack Barrett's a free agent, by the way, What will those guys do on the edge? You know, I mean without Fisher. Mahomes is three and three in games played without Eric Fisher in six games. So you start to think, man, you know, is Tampa

Bay with Tom Brady does that look like? You know, we'll David in White at linebacker the gate Kelsey a little bit, in my opinion, the best route runner at tight end in football. But then I look at Mahomes in my homes in the playoffs, averaging over ten yards rushing when he scrambles seventeen scrambles in the playoffs in the short playoffs history, one hundred and seventy seven yards. That's not to mention scrambling around, throwing the ball all over the place. I just I look at Patrick Mahomes

and I just think, Man, the dude's a magician. You know, he even when he falls behind by a big number, he'll come back, whether it's Super Bowl or not, you know, I mean, playoff game or not. I I just can't. I can't rule that guy out. It's the first time in Super Bowl history, the two quarterbacks that won the last two super Bowl based Super Bowls prior to the game, they're playing in face off against each other, and one's

on the back nine and one's just starting. Man. That's the one thing that worries me about my pick, obviously is Mahomes because when Brady get beat the Giants Giant, the Giants went up the middle on him. You know, they were at his feet. The Giants were at his feet, And I think Tampa can do that. I think Tampa has a good enough front. But Mahomes will just laugh if they're at his feet. He'll move out of the pocket,

will throw behind his back, will throw it under his legs. So, wow, Tampa may played a great defense, it's not gonna matter because Mahomes is so good. He hasn't thrown behind his back yet. That might be the one thing he hasn't done, so we'll look forward to that. So who's your pick lap. Well, here's the other thing. The defensive tackles for the Kansas City Chiefs, Clark and Jones, good Tampa. They're gonna get Brady off his spot. That formed me on rush Spagnolo,

the defensive coordinates three and two against Brady. And of course the big Super Bowl when you're talking about with the Giants formed me on rush pressure White and Brady's face doesn't get fresh in the face. So I'm going thirty one thirty Mahomes. I'm going to barn Burner. Now, I'm going with the Kansas City Chiefs and Mahomes winning back to back Super Bowls. I think he's going to be so I get to break the tie. This is good.

I am picking Kansas City. Here is my rationale. The Chiefs have punted once in two playoff games this year. Patrick Mahomes has nine losses as the starting quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs. You know what the opponent has averaged in those nine games, thirty six points. Wow, you got to score a ton to beat Patrick Mahomes. I think the Bucks are going to score twenty seven, but it's not gonna be enough. Thirty one twenty seven Kansas City.

I also like Andy Reid over Bruce Arians. I think Bruce Arians is a fine coach, but he's not going to the Hall of Fame. Andy Reid is and I'm going with case. Left tackle does concern me with Fisher going down in the AFC Championship game. That's the one thing that really scares me. But I will go with Kansas City and ramers is going from right to left tackle and they get a backup to the backup at right tackle. That offensive line is scary, but Mahomes is crazy.

But I agree with you, Andy Reid and Eric the Enemy. I'll take over Bruce Arians and Leftwich Firon Leftwich. I'll take the tandem in terms of points. Produce some points with Kansas City over the tandem with Tampa Bay. We all have our winning team scoring thirty one points, which is interesting. And if if Tampa Bay comes out on top, you will have the last last laugh on Sunday night. Butch, I'm looking for Cameron Braid at the parade. All right, gentlemen,

This has been fun. I hope our audience enjoyed it as much as I did, and UH look look forward to uh laughing as we watched the Super Bowl Sunday night. I hear you. Thanks for having me on, guys. I enjoyed it. That's going to do it. For this week's episode of The Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to you by bud Light Seltzer, refresh the game. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe, and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps

more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast