Bengals Booth Podcast: Still On The Line

round draft picks, including Iowa center Tyler Linderbaum. And finally, Brandon tells us why it's way too soon to give up on Jackson Carmen and the Bengals other recent offensive line draft picks. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App

Store and Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the pen tell Energell zero point seven millimeter pen. There was a story about Zach Taylor in The Athletic that was written by Dan Pompey back in November that mentioned Zach's favorite pen. The Bengals head coach apparently swears by the

Pilot brand point zero seven millimeter. Now, I'm not much of a pen guy, to be quite honest. I typically steal them from hotel rooms. But I recently stumbled upon the pen tell Energill zero point seven millimeter pen, and I think it's turning me into a pen snob. There's something about the quality of this pen that turns my chicken scratch handwriting into calligraphy. Taking a quick look at Amazon,

it gets eighty nine percent five star reviews. For what it's worth, the Zach Taylor pen only gets eighty four percent five star reviews. It appears that my pen is mightier. Now time to hear from my guest, Brandon Thorne, author of the Trench Warfare newsletter, where he writes about and does video studies of offensive and defensive line play. Brandon, the Bengals are obviously determined to improve their offensive line.

They've got the thirty first overall pick, they have two extra draft picks as well, and they're likely to have more than thirty million dollars in cap space? How would you go about addressing it? If you're the Cincinnati Bengals, I would look to getting the best guys I could possibly get. As simple as that sounds, I think you could pretty much upgrade any position on the line. I think probably your best spot right now is you know, left tackle and Jonah Williams, but I mean even he

could be upgraded by somebody like toront Armstead. But you know, that's best case scenario there. Otherwise, I think the other four positions are pretty much up in the air. So you know, I would look at best player available, and there's a couple interesting guys in free agency and in the draft that I think could could provide that. Well, let's start with free agency then, because there are some Pro Bowl level players out there. You mentioned Ton Armstead

from the Saints. He's a three time Pro Bowl left tackle. You've got a left guard brand and sure if a five time Pro bowler, do you favor spending a big chunk of that cap space on a guy like that or signing multiple lower priced free agents. Yeah, it's a really interesting discussion. You know, team building philosophy for offensive line. We've seen it I think done more successfully recently with the Ladder in terms of adding multiple, you know, guys

at more discount type prices. You look at how the Bills built their offensive line a couple of years ago when they retooled it. You know, they signed I think three or four maybe five guys, and then they drafted Cody Forward as well. And you know, I think that gives you a lot. It just increases your margin for error that way a little bit more. You could kind of just get by with that's, you know, just having solid guys everywhere as opposed to just kind of center

pieces or pillars at a couple of places. So that worked for them, and then the Chiefs, the Chiefs kind of you know, they just allocated so many resources to it. They didn't necessarily just get solid players. They got like a really good left tackle, a really good left guard, and then they hit it out of the park in the draft. You know, it's center and right guard. So you know, ideally that's how you do it, but that doesn't always work. Obviously, you know, they had they had

to have had a lot go right. Plus I'm big on believing, like who your offensive line coaches. I think Cincinnati has a pretty good one in Frank Pollock. You know, Kansas City has a very good one in Andy Heck. Plus the infrastructure around them, the scheme the quarterback helps, which I think since he has some of those similar parallels, so I think that they could execute a kind of

a similar plan here. I don't know, I'm not too familiar with cap situations and things like that, but you know, a guy like Toront Armstead would be an impact guy, and then if you have enough money to go get somebody else like a Ryan Jensen or something like that. I mean that right there would completely transform the line. And then if you can draft one or two as well, then all of a sudden, you know, you could have

three four new starters. So I think it really depends on what players we're talking about in terms of how I would approach it. To me, I believe Toron Armstead is worth, you know, investing significant amount of money in and making him the highest paid guy in the league if need be considering the caps going up, all that will probably look like a bargain deal in one or two years. He's young enough to where I think that

makes sense. The injury history is there, and it's you know, he's played eleven and a half games over the last five years on average, so that's you know, a consideration. But I think even if you're getting him for twelve, thirteen, fourteen games, that's worth it just because of how good he is. So that's one guy that I would advocate for, you know, in terms of investing a lot in the offensive line, is like my centerpiece. But then other guys

like Schurf. His injury history to me is a little bit even almost more concerning than Tehran so and plus he's a guard, not a tackle. So I don't know if I would necessarily go there with Schurf, but I can understand if they did. Yeah. I mean, I'm a big fan of Ryan Jensen as well. You know, I think he's a game changing presence on the interior. He's

a tone setter, he's very smart. He could handle all the protections, you know, alleviate some of that pressure of Burrow, kind of like how Corey Linsley did for you know, justin Herbert last year in Los Angeles, a similar effect. Although I think Jensen's better, I think he's more of an impact guy than Lindsley. Lindsley's more of a technician who's smart. Jensen's more of a smart guy who can physically impose, you know, himself on guy defenders in the

pass and run games. He's scheme diverse, he's big, you know, he's Lindsley's a little undersized. Jensen's a big starting center. So and he hasn't missed a game in like four or five years. So Jensen and Armstead I think are the two prize, like top prizes on the free agent market right now in terms of offensive lineman. But there's some other good ones as well, so you know, there's other ways to attack it. Ryan Jensen's thirty. He's probably the free agent offensive lineman who has been linked to

the Bengals the most. Frank Pollock at the combine talked about wanting glass Eaters to have that personnelity on his offensive line, and it sounds like Ryan Jensen fits all

of that. Plus, while he'll probably be high priced among the center free agents out there, he certainly wouldn't cost as much as Toronto Armstead, right right, yeah, because what is the top of the market for center, like thirteen million or so a year, and then tackle is you know, you'd have to go over like close to twenty or whatever.

So yeah, I mean it makes sense, you know, given the scarcity of the tackle position out there, you know, compared to center, there's more starting level centers and tackles. But yeah, so that makes sense. But Jensen, I mean, if Pollock said that in terms of glass eaters, you know, and that whope dynamic of what you want an offensive lineman, Jensen as the poster child for that, So that makes a lot of sense. We're talking to Brandon Thorne. He

is the author of the Trench Warfare newsletter. I subscribe. It's the best content out there to learn about offensive and defensive line play. Let's talk about Laramie Tunsel. There have been reports that he could be available in aid with the Texans. What would you think of the Bengals trying to trade for him, you know, so largely contingent

on the compensation for him. I mean, I think when he's healthy, he's one of the six or seven probably best left tackles in football, you know, somewhere around there. So you know, you're definitely getting a top ten guy if he's healthy at a premium position. So I'm I would imagine that would require a lot of resources. He's he's fairly young as well. I want to say he's like twenty seven or so, twenty eight somewhere in there. So you're getting a guy who's still in his prime. Yeah,

I mean, that's very appealing to me. For sure. He's he's a better pass protector than run run blocker, but he's still solid as a run blocker. But he's a guy that you can, you know, leave on an island against most competition off the edge, and that really frees up an offense in a lot of different ways. So yeah, I mean, he's he's a very appealing piece, depending on what you'd have to pay for. It all about the compensation.

As you pointed out, he has signed for a couple more years, which is also a positive in his case, although he is making big bucks. Let's get back to free agents centers. The Bengals have Trey Hopkins under contract for one more year, but he's coming off to tourn acl from a couple of years ago. He struggled quite a bit this past season, and there have been a lot of talks that the Bengals will make him a cap casualty if the Bengals don't sign Ryan Jensen because

there'll be a lot of competition for his services. A couple of other names that have been mentioned are Bradley Bozeman from Baltimore and Ben Jones from Tennessee. Good fits for the Bengals. Um, yeah, I think they're pretty good fits. I prefer Ben Jones even though he's older, you know, I think, you know, he's what five years older I'm looking at than Bozeman, So in terms of long term, obviously you'd go Bozeman. Plus he has more positional versatility.

He's played guard, you know, which helps. But I just think Jones is a better player. I'm a big fan of Ben Jones, so, you know, he's one of those guys who has been really underrated for you know, I think half a dozen years now that I've been watching him. He's a guy who's a very good run blocker, and he's a pretty good pass protector. You know, he's a guy who can definitely handle the mental side of it as well. He's been doing it a long time in Tennessee.

He really succeeds in a kind of a similar type of scheme, is of compared to what the Bengals run more so than Bozeman. You know, Bozeman's coming from Baltimore's heavy gap scheme, whereas Ben Jones has been blocking in Tennessee scheme, which is more wide tighten zone, you know, which is kind of more similar to what Cincinnati does. So I think it makes more sense from a schematic perspective to get Ben Jones. And I just always been a fan of him. I just think he, you know,

to get kind of technical. He plays with really good leverage, and he understands how to stay attached to blocks, and it's very impressive how he works combinations with the guards. And he's been doing that for so long in Tennessee. He's been one of the more underrated parts of their run game. The work that he's done with Roger Saffol next to him and then Nate Davis. I mean, he's kind of he's a key cog in what they do.

And from everything I've heard, you know, consummate leader, all that type of stuff, you know, checks all those boxes in terms of what he can bring to the locker room and that kind of thing. So yeah, I'm a big fan of Ben Jones, but he's just more of a short term answer as opposed to Bozeman, where you can maybe expect him to, you know, be there a little bit longer. We're talking to offensive line defensive line expert Brandon Thorne. You can follow him on Twitter at

Brandon Thorne NFL. Let's move to guards. If there's one name that's been mentioned most frequently where the Bengals are concerned, it's Lake and Tomlinson from San Francisco. What would you think of that marriage. I think it would make sense, you know, again, kind of a similar scheme, you know, with San Francisco being his own heavy place Tomlinson is. It's almost a little redundant to me. With Spain, you know,

I kind of see them similar. You know, they're more kind of a they're very physical tone set or kind of guys good play strength. You know, they can get in trouble if they're isolated in past protection against sub package rushers, you know, and and really good three techniques. You know, they're not going to be guys who are going to be very good in past protection. A little bit stronger as run blockers. Maybe a slight upgrade over Spain,

you know, but I don't know that it's significant. So you know, if you just want to slightly upgrade the position and get a guy who I think is a little bit younger that kind of thing, then you know, it makes sense. But you know not I don't think it would be a you know, a game changing presence. But I mean, Tomlinson is a guy who, you know, if he's your maybe fourth best offensive lineman, then that's

really good. You know, if he's your second best, you know, it's your line might not be you know, that great, you know what I mean. So it's that's kind of how I see him. I see him as kind of just a solid, solid starter, which is fine, you know, if you want to go that approach, If you want to take that approach and you know, add him with some other guys, I get it. But if he's kind of your prize guy in free agency, you know, that's I don't know exactly how much better you got in

general terms. Do you subscribe to the theory that the line is only as good as its weakest link? I think so, yeah, I think there's a lot of merit to that, you know viewpoint for sure, because from what I understand how pass rushers and how defensive coordinators defensive line coaches approach game plans, they're always looking for the quote unquote fish. You know, I've heard it called, or you know, just one. They're always looking for that guy that they can isolate in a game plan, and that's

the guy that they're keying on. They're always trying to even if it's only two or three times a game, you know, as long as it's in a high leverage situation, they're going to be trying to isolate that guy against a good a good pass rusher, and a lot of the times they're able to accomplish that. I mean, you can't protect a weak link all game long. Typically a

lot has to go right for that to happen. So I think you're playing with fire if you're you know, you're building a line and just leaving one spot kind of weak and you're trying to, you know, protect him with scheme and stuff like that all games. It's tough. So yeah, I do think there's a lot of merit to that. My broadcast partner, Dave Lapham, former Bengals offensive lineman, would be smiling right now. He also uses the expression the fish. Can you guys have that in common? Let's

talk about some of the other guards. Some names that have been mentioned possibly where the Bengals are concerned, Connor Williams from Dallas, Austin Corbett from the Rams, Andrew Norwell from the Jags, who is from the Cincinnati area. Do those guys or any of the other available guards out there really appeal to you? So out of those names, I'm I'm a pretty big fan of Austin Corbett. So he's a guy that I've watched a lot of over

the last couple of years. Was a twenty twenty. I thought he was a top ten right guard in the NFL in twenty twenty. This year this past season, maybe a little bit of a dip in his play in consistency, but still there's some there's some upside with Corbette that I don't think is there with those other guys. Maybe Connor Williams has some of that upside, but I haven't seen it on the field actually materialized as much as I have with Corbett. I think Connor is more up

and down, especially in past protection. He struggles. I mean, he's he's a good athlete, and he's young. He's somebody who you you know with a good line coach, you know and stuff like that. I can understand wanting to get him in the building and try to mold him and improve him over time, but that would probably be my next choice. But I like Corbett. I think his play strength is really impressive as a run blocker and in his anchor and pass protection a lot of the

time as well. You watch him last year against the Bucks, what he did against Sue was very impressive, and then twenty twenty, I have a whole tape you can go on my Trench Warfare site. Every positive block he made that season I have on my my sub stack, so people can really see what he would bring. But just a really good run blocker pass protection. This year, like I said, took a little bit of a dip, But

I like him. I think he's a, you know, probably an above average starter at right guard, so you know somewhere in that ten to you know, twelve range or so of right guards across the league. So yeah, I prefer Corbett personally. That's one of my favorite guys in the free agent class. Do you see much left in the tank for Andrew Norwell, not a whole lot, but a little bit. You know, he's a guy who he definitely is a really good processor in terms of handling

himself in pass protection and seeing things quickly. He can decipher stunts and line games and blitz is very quickly. But there's just not the same level of explosiveness and juice as there once was, you know. When he signed that deal in Jacksonville, became the richest guard in NFL history, you know. And I watched him a lot in Carolina. I've loved him in Carolina. Former undrafted guy. I love those kind of guys. But yeah, I just think physically

there's a lot of wear and tear there. Maybe like on a very short term basis, you know, he could provide maybe a little bit of an upgrade over Spain. But I'm not sure how much we're talking here because I kind of like Quentin Spain for what he is, you know. So I think we're all talking about kind of middle of the pack, were below kind of guys right now, but I think Corbett is maybe more above that. So but yeah, that's kind of how I see no ORL right now. Brandon Thorne is our guest. He is

the author of the Trench Warfare newsletter. Again, I subscribe and I highly recommend it. If you're interest didn't learning more about offensive and defensive line play, Let's move to tackles. Aside from Tehran Armstead, who will be the highest priced free agent tackle out there, what other guys are available

that you like? So on a short term basis, there's some there's some bridge type guys at left tackle, at least if if Cincinnati wanted to move Jonah Williams to the right side or whatever, you know, I guess that's feasible. You know, he played right tackle at Alabama at least for one season. So Dwayne Brown is a guy who I like. He kind of he definitely dipped last year compared to twenty twenty. Twenty twenty he was excellent, Like he was one of the five or six best left

tackles in the game. In twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, it was a little bit more up and down. Their whole offensive line was really But I think if you're talking about for a year or two, Dwayne Brown is somebody that I would really like. And then another guy kind of like that who's maybe doesn't even have that much left in the tank. He's four years old. Jason Peters. You know, Peters is a guy if he's like your fourth best offensive lineman at this point, third maybe then

that's pretty good. But I just I'm watching every snap of him for a highlight tape I'm making, and Peters was better than I think a lot of people thought, considering he was thirty nine last year and he got signed Layton training Camp all that stuff. He has some pretty impressive reps that he put on tape and definitely isn't the same guy. You know, he's a Hall of Famer, but he's not what he once was. But he's so crafty.

He's still very strong, and I think he's a guy that you can definitely win with if you signed him on obviously like a one year deal, but in terms of like answers, you know, long term at the tackle position, I don't really think you're going to find anybody in free agency. You know, I'm looking at the list again, but I mean for more than one or two years. I mean, I really like Trent Round, but it's just tough to bank on him being available week in week out.

But his upside I think is probably the highest after Armstead in the whole class um. But there's a lot of variants there, so that one's tough. But yeah, tackle is just the position on the line. It's like quarterback. I mean, you know, they very rarely hit the market like Toronto Armstead does. You know where you're getting the top three or four guy at his position, and they just don't make a lot of those guys. You know, there's just there's just not a lot of offensive tackles period,

you know. I mean it's funny I talk about this kind of a sidebar, but like the developmental leagues that pop up, I always say that it might as well be seven on seven because the offensive line is always going to be bad in those. It's just it's just the way it is, especially tackle, because there's not enough to fill NFL rosters, you know, let alone developmental league. So um, yeah, it's just the way it is tackle. I mean, the demand is always gonna outweigh the supply.

It's just always going to be that way. And I think that's the case here in terms of long term answers. There's some short term guys I likee Like I said, but long term you got to go in the draft. You know, pretty much Morgan Moses doesn't do much for you that would probably he'd probably be in the top five, you know, if we're talking about short term again for him, you know, he's younger than those other guys for sure. Moses, Yeah, he's a guy who's played injured a lot over the

last few years. I'm not I'm not sure how much longer he would have at a very high level. We're at a high level, but yeah, he's a guy, you know, I would say after I think Trent Brown is definitely better than Morgan Moses, but Morgan Moses is more reliable, so he might have more value in a lot of ways, which I totally get. But yeah, he's He's definitely one

of the five best. You know, I'd say Trent Brown, Peters, Dwayne Brown, Moses Armstead, those would probably be my top tackles in the free agency market before we get to the draft. Between the regular season and the four playoff games last year, Joe Burrow out sacks seventy times, and Zach Taylor often points out it's not all on the offensive line in the Bengals case. How much validity is there to that, I mean, I think maybe not. I don't totally agree with that, but I understand what he's saying.

I mean, just generally speaking, Yeah, I get that. Yeah, I mean, sacks oftentimes are more the onus is more on the quarterback than the offensive line. But in Cincinnati's case, specifically, I think the offensive line was clearly an issue, especially on the right side. You know, when you had multiple backups in there, Isaiah Prince and you know, kind of that rotation at right guard, and that was an issue.

I mean, yeah, you can't roll out Isaiah Prince at right tackle and expect to you know, block high level edge rushers, and then at right guard as well. With Identity and Jackson Carmen. I mean, I think, obviously Carmen, you still want to have him compete for a job next year. He's a rookie, he's very young, all that type of stuff. I still think there's a pathway for

him to start. But yeah, I just they had multiple backup caliber players playing on the right side, and you know, they did obviously a very admirable job as it collectively as a whole as an offense getting to where they got and producing how they produced. But when you isolate the offensive line, it was certainly an issue on the right side. Especially Carmen and Identagy were both tackles in college and tried to play right guard last year in the NFL. How difficult is it to make that switch,

especially early in your NFL career. I think it's I didn't watch a dentagy in college, but I wrote a full scouting report on Jackson Carmen. People can read online if you just google that. But Carmen I saw his guard in the NFL because of his struggles attackle at Clemson. The thing about moving that makes it more difficult inside from outside is if you switch sides as well, which Carmen did. It's not like he was a right tackle going to right guard. He's a left tackle going to

right guard. So that kind of, you know, rows a bigger wrench in sort of just the biomechanical aspect of switching positions. Not only are you doing that, but you're switching the side. So you just have to kind of reconfigure your technique in a way. You know that is difficult. You know, people have compared it to writing with your opposite hand. You know people have tried that. Obviously, see how foreign that is. It's how weird it is, and that's kind of a similar dynamic. It takes a lot

of reps. It takes a lot of practice, and you just have to learn and kind of rewire your body to operate on a different side. Your strengths, you know, become like the dominant side becomes your non dominant side and vice versa. And that's that's difficult. So some guys adapt to it way better than others. But I say that I would say that's the exception more than the rule. Most guys, if you're switching side, it's very difficult and it takes time, especially as a young guy like you said.

So I'm still you know, I think I gave Carmen a third round grade. You know, I thought his technique needed a lot of work at tackle hand usage, stuff like that, getting too wide, you know, allowing guys to get inside his chest and not playing with good leverage. But in terms of sheer, explosiveness, power size, those kind of things he has. So there's a foundation there to become a starter, I think. So I would still expect

him to compete for a job at least. But yeah, yeah, But to answer your original question, the right side was definitely, you know, a major issue. We're chatting with Brandon Thorne, the offensive and defensive line guru. You can follow him on Twitter at Brandon Thorne NFL. Let's get to the draft. The Bengals have the thirty first overall pick. Let's just say they stay there at thirty one. Who are some offensive linemen that you think have a decent chance of

still being there at thirty one that interests you? Well, we'll start interior first. I'm looking at the interier. I think Tyler Linderbaum could be there. Obviously, he's for me, one of the three best offensive linemen in the class. So you know, the thing with him is he has thirty one and one eighth in charms, which is you know,

it's a concern, you know. I mean, there's gonna be certain matchups in the NFL, certain nose tackles and other rushers who are going it's going to be very difficult for him to prevent them from accessing his frame and controlling him. You know, that's just something you're gonna kind of have to live with and you're gonna have to adapt to him. So that's why I think he might

be available there. Even though what he does in the run game I believe is really special and I think he's much more powerful than somebody like Garrett Bradberry coming out, who's oftentimes the comparison for him. I think he's very similar, but he's just more powerful. So that to me would I think translate to him being a better run blocker.

But I equated to how the Eagles treat Jason Kelsey, Wh's not every team is equipped to do this, but in Philadelphia, the guards are not allowed to help the tackles in pass protection because they have to stay inside and help Kelsey. And that's just what you have to

do with Jason Kelsey. You have to help him in pass protection against certain guys because he's two hundred and eighty five pounds, you know, he's two hundred and ninety pounds whatever he is, you know, and he just doesn't have the mass and the girth and the lower half strength to hold up, you know, against certain guys. So he has brand. He had Brandon Brooks on one side,

Isaac Siamalo on the other. They always had giant guards next to him, and that's because they had elite tackles and Peters and Lane Johnson, so they were able to do that, you know. Ideally, That's kind of the situation that Linderbaum goes into a place that has two bigger type of guards who can provide him some help and really good tackles. Now, obviously not a lot of teams are able to provide that infrastructure, so the you know, in terms of projecting lender Bomb, it becomes tricky, you know.

But that's why I think he could be available there. Even though early in the process he was sometimes rumored to be a top ten pick, I don't think that's going to happen now. So lender Bomb is a guy if they want to upgrade center and especially in the run game, and just offer something totally different than Trey Hopkins in terms of what he can do in the zone run game. And then there's two guards that I could see being available there at Zion Johnson, who's probably

my biggest guy in the draft. I was very high on him, and when I wrote his report in January had him as a first round pick, and then he crushed the Senior Bowl process, crushed the Combine and that was just awesome. He even exceeded my expectations at the Combine. So and I'm very high on Zion. I think Zion is a plug and play guard. He is very well

rounded technically sound, strong, powerful. I mean, not the most physically imposing guy because he's you know, just I mean six six two and a half three fifteen, so he's not like the biggest guard, but plenty of size. He's he has a great build and all that stuff. He's smart, you know, play processing skills are impressive. I mean, I

just think he's very well rounded. I compared him to Kevin Zeitler actually so, and I can kind of see like that type of player, you know, where Zeitler was above average for a decade, you know, maybe a little better at times as well. So that's kind of how I see Zion. Kenyan Green is another guy who could be available there. I think it's possible. He's he has a little bit more flashes of power than Zion does. He's bigger, you know than Zion, but I just think

technically he has more. He's not as clean as Zion Johnson is, So I have a second round grade on Kenyan Green, but he's gonna go in the first round probably. So those would be three guys on the interior that I think would be really nice for the Bengals to get any one of those guys. And then as far as tackle. I think you're looking at two names really maybe three, but Bernard Raymond, Trevor Penning, and Daniel Filele.

I personally have Filele with like a mid to late second round grade, more late second, but I think it's feasible he could go there. It depends on if Raymond or Penning are gone, you know. I think those are the two you're looking at there in terms of tackle, and I have both of their grades. For me personally is like a fringe first, so late first, early second,

that's how I see them. I'm sure Penning will go higher, He'll he probably won't be available, honestly, but I think Raymond is probably the guy who could be available there. And I compared him to Jake Matthews. So if you just think about Jake Matthews, who he is as a player. He's solid to above average at times, but more so middle of the pack tackle, really athletic. I think he's

probably stronger than Jake Matthews coming out. The only thing is with Raymond he has short arms, which isn't as big of a deal to me as it maybe just some other people. The one thing that's kind of concerning is he's gonna be a twenty five year old rookie, so he's gonna be older. The only thing with that is there's kind of a dichotomy there because he's only

played eighteen games of offensive line in his life. So even though he's older, he's very young in terms of, you know, football player, in terms of playing offensive line, and he's already very like, very polished for only playing eighteen games. It's really impressive, So I think he can still get quite a bit better even though he's older. So I like Raymond a pretty good amount. So I would say probably the top guys is like linder Bomb,

Zion Johnson, and Bernard Raymond. Those are probably the three, and I would be very happy with probably any of those guys if I was a Bengals fan. So linder Bomb played at Iowa, Zion Johnson Boston College, Raymond at Central Michigan. I think if you look at the Bengals recent draft history, they tend to go for major friends lineman, at least with their early picks. Do you have any concern about a guy who played at Central Michigan being

a first round pick? A little bit, but at thirty one then you know not as much there You know, because that's that's just at the tail end, and you just want to prevent you know, the top of the second round teams from getting him, you know what I mean. And even though he might be a top second, top of the second kind of value, if you get him

at thirty one, I think that's okay. So yeah, but I think always, yeah, if you're if you're drafting a smaller school guy, you want to see them dominate, you know, And Raymond I wouldn't say was dominant, but I would say he was very good and at the Senior Bowl was up and down. So there's there's some you know, definitely you could poke holes in his evaluation. That's why

I have a fringe first on him. You know, it's not quite a first, you know, it's not quite a it's kind of like right in that pick thirty one range. So to me it would make sense. But I can understand how if you're a little lower on a guy like that. But I mean linder Bomb, you know, obviously he went to Ye, Well that's a big school, and Zion at Boston College in the a SEC. You know, it's not the SEC or even the Big ten, but I mean Zion was very well coached at Boston College.

I think they were. They were one of the best offensive lines to watch in the country. I mean, you could tell they're all on the same page. Their offensive line coach just got hired to coach the Dolphins. But yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned with those other two. But yeah, a guy like Raymond Central Michigan's a different story, you know, So I understand that. So when you talked about linder Bomb, I heard the red flags and I didn't necessarily hear why I should be excited if the Bengals wind up

getting him at thirty one? What are the strengths? Why are people high on Tyler linder Bomb despite the fact that his arms are a little more than thirty one inches, So pretty much directly from my report, you know, very good initial quickness, contact balance, and body control. Um, he stays attached to blocks consistently. He doesn't fall off blocks really ever. I think his grip strength is amazing that kind of bleeds into that once he gets latched into defenders,

he's not coming off really ever. And he's very explosive through the drive portion of blocks, so he can create displacement in the run game. And then how he works combo blocks is it's masterful. He's very good at work in combination blocks in terms of knowing how to overtake blocks, how to climb, when to climb, the timing aspect of it, how to fit on blocks. He's very adept at that. So his zone run games, you know, I'm sure they're gonna love him. And he applies consistent pressure on defenders

through the whistle. He has really good leg drive. He's powerful, you know. I mean, he gets a lot of knockdowns in college. I'm not sure he'll get as many as in the pros, but he's gonna definitely, i think, create displacement in the pros. And you know, in past protection, I think when he's uncovered, he looks for work very well. He can find work at a high level, and he provides a lot of thump and power on adjacent rushers

to kind of collapse guys. You know, he'll find their rib cage and their hip and he'll really knock him over with violence. So he's a very physical guy as well. So I mean, I think he's gonna bring a lot just to a run game. And the other thing is he's devastating at the second level. So if he gets attached to a linebacker or a dB, which he has the athleticism to do, I mean, he's gonna probably get a pancake you know, a lot of the time. So he's he's just uh, I think he's a you know,

an impact run blocker. So that's what you're getting. You're getting somebody like Bradberry can do certain stuff in the pros, like he's really good on screens, he can reach shades sometimes, but he just gets He's just not strong and powerful enough really, and I think that's where Linderbaum separates himself from a guy like that, and he could, you know, just be better than Bradberry, I think. But you know, it's it's the size and the anchoring ability and pass

protection that people have questions about. But he's not a bad pass protector in terms of technique, you know, using his hands and stuff like that. He can get better. And I think if he does get better, it can kind of mitigate some of his concerns. So he has room to improve too. I mean it's not like he's

it's not like he's maxed out. You know, he's not coming in the NFL like this is what you're getting, you know, period, I feel like he has room to grow with his technique as a pass protector to where he can get better. You know what I mean. I don't think for Brandon Thornton. I'll let you go. The Bengals drafted three offensive linemen last year. Jackson Carmen obviously was the highest drafted in the second round, and Duke Tobin.

The direct your Player Personnel made the point at the scouting combine that it takes a while, particularly nowadays, for many offensive linemen to adapt to the differences from college football to the NFL. How long do you give a guy? I mean, I know it varies from person to person, but do you typically know within a couple of years whether a guy's going to be any good or not? I think you can, you can know. I really think you have to look at what's around a guy a

lot of the time. You know, like who's playing next to, who's his coach, what's his scheme? Does it fit him a perfect examples Lake and Tomlinson in Detroit. Everyone said he was a bust, you know, first round pick went to Detroit, struggled. I've heard some crazy stuff about the offensive line coach there at the time, and what the just crazy dynamics there in terms of locker room stuff that went on. I still saw flashes of brilliance from Lake and Tomlinson in Detroit. I wrote an article about

it back in the day. He had an incredible against Mike Daniels when Mike Daniels was at his peak in Green Bay. So he had flashes, but he was very up and down. Goes to San Francisco after three or four years in Detroit, and then all of a sudden, he looks like a totally different player. He's in the perfect scheme, he's playing for a great coach, he's playing next to Joe Staley. You know, all this stuff happens to him, and then you got an above average guy for a few years, solid guy. So I like to

think at least two or three years typically. I mean, obviously a lot of guys don't get that. It depends on what you where you get drafted as well. Obviously your leash is longer the higher you get drafted. But ideally you want to give a guy two or three years, and you want to assess everything around him as well. And really, when you drill into the tape and you search for, you know, flashes, and then you ask yourself

why those aren't more consistent. Then you start to look at the outside picture around him, and then sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's just like, yeah, this is what he is. You know, he has a pretty good coach, he has pretty good players around him, and he's just very inconsistent. But then sometimes you know, you got a guy like I mean, Jackson Carman is an interesting one to kind of tie to him because he's so young. You know, he's twenty one or whatever.

Twenty two came in very young, left or it probably left Clemson probably a year or two early, switching side, switching positions, playing next to you know, a guy like Isaiah Prince who's providing zero stability for him at all. And then you know, Hopkins helps, you know, to some degree, but he wasn't in a great position either last year, and there's a lot of I feel like you've got to be patient with a guy like this. You know, you have to give him at least another year to

me all things considered. So yeah, I mean it's really a case by case basis, but you know, I hopefully I can I answered some of that, you know, by finding some examples there. But yeah, I mean, yeah, it's interesting, it's fun discussion. Our guest has been Brandon Thorne. He is the author of the Trench Warfare Newsletter. It's great. It's the best content out there about offensive line play and defensive line play as well. I'm really enjoying it.

I'm a recent subscriber, and I look forward to learning more throughout the course of the year. Thank you so much for your time, and hopefully we'll do this again down the road. Absolutely, anytime you're interested in Brandon's newsletter and video breakdowns, just do a search for Trench Warfare Newsletter and you'll find a link with information on how to subscribe. It costs eight dollars for a month or

eighty five dollars for a year. That's going to do it for this episode of The Bengals Booth podcast presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and Google Play. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, given a rating or share a comment that helps more

Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to the Bengals Boot Podcast.