Bengals Booth Podcast: Stayin' Alive

in the Mile High City. My one on one player interview is with safety Ricardo Allen, who shares his process for dealing with a gut wrenching loss and describes why

it is so freaking hard to cover. George Kittle with two touchdown catches last week, Jamar Chase broke the Bengals rookie record for receiving tds with ten and I'll speak to the legend whose record he broke, the sensational Isaac Curtis, and finally, in our Know the Faux segment, we'll take an in depth look at the Broncos with Mike Kliss, who covers the team for nine News in Denver. The

Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals. The free to play Next Level Fantasy Football game downloaded now from the App Store and Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing

since Dawn Powerwash. I am the primary dishwasher in the Horde household, and kudos to the geniuses at Procter and Gamble for inventing Dawn Powerwash or technically speaking, Dawn Ultra Platinum Powerwash dish spray. It claims to provide five times faster grease cleaning, but I'm here to tell you it removes anything and everything off of dishes. Shoot, I'm pretty

sure a couple of sprays would remove fingerprints. And when you have a fifteen year old who will occasionally leave dirty dishes in the sink, it certainly comes in handy. So thank you don Powerwash. You've made spraying, wiping, and rinsing much easier. Now let's get to this week's guests, beginning with my broadcast partner Dave Lapham Lapp in more than forty years in the NFL as a player a broadcaster, do you ever remember a year where it seems like

every team is so close to five hundred? I really don't, Dan, I really don't. I mean, it's like by now the dust is settled a little bit. You know, people who have kind of determined where they are, and I remember years where they were like, you know, maybe five or six teams still in the hunt with a month ago, how is it going to sort out? But you know, to have a dozen you know in the AFC alone

still in the playoff picture. Like we said a few times, this is an early Christmas for the National Football League. This is what Santa they were hoping Santa might deliver. Everybody is in the hunt. The interest is probably in an all time high. It's the perfect storm for the National Football League. We got quite a bit of injury related news this week. Let's start with Trey Hendrickson. So last week he's down on the turf, they call for a cart. We breathed a sigh of relief when he

managed to walk off the field. Now it looks like he's going to play. How crucial is that for the final four weeks? And what do you think that says to his teammates. Yeah, I think that initially Trent Williams gave him a pretty good shot and he was he was torked a little bit. He was twisting to start to pursue a play and he got hit in his body position was just wrong, particularly what the force that Trent Williams can hit you. And I think he felt like he had kind of nussed up a disc. You know,

it was that painful. But you know, when you have spasms like that, they can be brutally painful and looks like unfortunately be the case where it just had a very very severe spasm that he's going to be working through and you know, it's gonna have to be smart probably about it and make sure that there's all the muscles around that that vertebrae and the disc and all those kind of things are everything's fine and calm down

in the early stage. Is a week of practice here probably won't do much of anything, but to have him as a rush guy off the edge, it's huge. I mean twelve and a half sacks. He's so consistent. He gets, you know, at least a sack every game, it seems like. And this this is a good football team. This is a pretty darn good offensive line. I mean, it's it's solid.

I look at their numbers. I look at the personnel, and then I look at them statistically, and I can't figure out how they're seven and six the number there's there's not any clearing thing. It's like, oh, that's the reason they lost, you know, some of these football games. But this is a pretty good, pretty good football team. And Garrett Bowls is a good left tackle, particularly in pass protection, a very good athlete. He's got very good

movement skills. So having Trey Hendricks out there is a big, big plus. There's there's no question about it. And uh and it would have been a tough blow, to say the least, to not have him for any extended time frame. How big is the Mike munshack factor when you talk about Denver's offensive line? Huge? I think munchak is uh is as good as there is in the National Football League. He's a great player, and he's made He's developed a

lot of players. You know, he'll take good players and make them great, great players and make them Hall of famers. He just he elevates guys over time. He just his way, the way he teaches it. He simplifies to the point where players are it's an easy thing to respond to, and I think they respond to him as a former player and a great former player, Hall of Fame caliber player and um, and he's got a track record from a coaching standpoint that is something that you know, I'm

going to listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about, and he's got a great reputation and uh, it's it's a reputation that's well earned, well deserved, and I think as players, you know, basically worship the ground he walks on it. Getting back to injuries, I'm sure Riley Reef would play if he could, but it sounds like the ankle injury is bad enough that he'll be

out this week, so Isaiah Prince goes instead. How big of a drop off is there from a guy with a decade of snaps in the NFL to a guy who's barely started in Isaiah Prince. Yeah, I mean, I think I think the big thing is when when you start going against defenses that will run, you know, some different looks and different things, and defensively they will they'll go to a five man look out of their base defense,

and they'll they'll change it up a little bit. They'll run they'll cover the center and the and the and the offensive tackles, and then they'll have two edge guys outside of those offensive tackles and leave the guards uncovered like a three four look. But then they'll run five defensive linemen and they'll cover the center, the guard, and the tackle away from the tight end. That's called under with five defensive lamon and two to the other side,

and then they'll go over. They'll stack it, you know, center guard and tackle to the tight end side and leave the opposite guard uncovered. So they do they do a few different looks up front, and they'll do different things out of it, different twists and different blitz packages. So um, I think I think that there is there is a little bit of recognition and communication and making

sure you're you're all on the same page. And I think that's the thing where Riley reef a lot of this would be like, oh man, this is kind of an old hat, second nature, whereas Isaiah princes like this might be the first time I've seen some of this stuff. So I think that's that's the big thing, is the is the mental part of it. I think. I think physically he's getting better and better. And like Brian Callahan said, he's got two things. He's got length, and he's got

an athleticism. And if you've got some leverage to you and you can move, you have a shot. I mean it starts with your feet and ends with the hands. If you've got long levels that are manipulating operating those hands, and you get a fee to get you in position, you get a chance to block people in this league. Darius Phillips went on injured reserve with a shoulder injury on Tuesday. He obviously had a lousy game last week.

I think the piling on was a little excessive. It's not like he'd fumbled a million times this year and he'd done a reasonably good job as a kickoff and put returner. But I digress, who do you think steps in as the punt returner and as the kickoff returner. That's a good question. I mean I think that you know you're gonna think Irwin probably is is a guy

that they're they're given strong consideration too. Um. The thing with Tyler Boyd is you know it's a he's going to be running a lot of routes as a as you know, the third as in those three receiver packages, as a slot receiver, and particularly this week, the thin air. Do you run a go route? You know, and then you're you know, you're you're running a few of those during the course of the game, and there's fatigue kind of wears on you more and more, and then you're

a return guy. You add that responsibility to it, and you know, I just I just think that it's uh, I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think that this week it might be a little bit a little bit much to ask. And I think in general, if you're hoping that the offense is out there for the number of snaps that are out there, and he's running routes on every single high percentage of those snaps,

not every single one of them. Some of them is blocking, obviously, but to add that to it, I think is a pretty pretty good load. I'm not saying he can't do it. I'm saying I know guys have done it in the past. You know, back in the day when we walked in a foot of snow and had to walk five miles to school, guys were doing that. Browth ways uphill. Guys

were uphill both ways. Guys were doing that kind of stuff. Um, But the game was so much different, you know, and there's so much smarter about a lot of things in terms of player overload and player safety and all that sort of thing. So there's there's a lot to consider there. But I think I think Irwin. The thing that Irwin has shown is he'll catch the football. And I don't care the very first thing that has to happen. In Darren Simmons, I've heard him screaming many many times over

the years, first thing, catch the football, you know. I mean, it doesn't do any good if you're a dynamic return guy and the balls rolling around the ground and they're falling on top of it. Kuka Williams up from the practice glad to return kicks. Yeah, he's really struggled, you know, the last game that he that he did it, and that's the small sample size you hate to label a guy. I don't think he can do it, because he's shown

he can, UM. So it'll be interesting if that's another option, and if Darren Simmons decides, you know, that's that's something to think about. You You do think though, in Denver in the rarefied air. I mean the kickers. I remember all of our place kickers, punters. Everybody's like, oh my gosh if I punted here my whole career. You know, how do you not make the Pro Bowl here? With this? There's there's absolutely nothing that is is preventing the football

from from coming back to earth, you know. I mean you get a lot of more distance. The higher you're talking about in the elevation, the more of a factor it is. And for the for the punters and place kickers, it's a it's a big plus. Although you know, I will say that obviously every year you're going to have the place kicker for the Denver Broncos have have big range and also have a ton of touchbacks, and this year's McManus is no exception. Fifty one touchbacks third the NFL.

You know, you're you're crushing the football up there in that air, but I still I'd hang it high and get it up there. I mean, you could probably almost feel like it's going to the moon before it comes back to Earth. You could pin people inside the twenty multiple times. And it's happened to the Bengals this year when they've had those high trajectory kickoff returns, they haven't gotten bolt past the twenty yard line. The Bengals have

been wildly unpredictable from week to week. Is that part of the learning process for a young team that hasn't been in contention for several years. Yeah, I think I think it is. I think that that is part of it. I just I think that you look around the National Football League, like we said, Dan, so many teams are in the Huntsdale and one of the reasons that so many teams are in the hunt one of the reasons for it is the inconsistency of play from one week

to the next. We've kind of documented on on a week to week basis. But you know, the one thing that this football team has done, you know, they've they've they've had three wins by nineteen points or four wins by nineteen points or more, and two losses by nineteen points more. So it's been you know, really really good and really really bad and everything in between. I would like to see here down the playoffs stretch as such, the push to the playoffs, that they start to play

very very good, consistent, complimentary football, complete football games. All three phases. It hasn't happened yet this year, and I'd like to see it happen, you know, boy, a couple of times in the last four games, maybe more if possible, But to have one of those games where everything clicked, it hasn't hasn't occurred yet. It's come close, but even in their wins when they pulled away, it's been a game until they've pulled away in the in the third

or fourth quarter. I mean, I'd like to see him play with the lead. You know, they really haven't jumped out to an early lead in a football game where it changes the dynamic of everything, of the play calling on both sides of the football, it changes changes the whole whole ball of acts. I mean, you know, we talked about the two game losing streak at home. They never had a lead in eight quarters until overtime. That's the first lead they had was by three points in overtime.

You know, you dig yourself holes like that because now they know what it's like. They've had to dig out a twenty four point hole, twenty four nothing. They're down two scores in the fourth quarter because they've had to dig out of a hole. If they start doing that to other people a little bit. It's a totally different

game of football. I can tell you I've been on both sides of it, and it is night and day for an offensive lineman how difficult it is and how easy it is, and how your mental approach is affected by that. So three years ago, when teams are looking to hire head coaches, the Broncos zigged where everybody else zagged.

The Bengals were one of the teams and this was the norm that went for the hot, young, offensive minded coach, and the Broncos went to a sixty year old guy who had been an NFL defensive coordinator for a couple of decades in Vic Fangio, and obviously he's had tremendous success as a defensive coordinator in the NFL. The Broncos are number two in the NFL, and FEUs points allowed, what stands out about a Vic Fangio coach defense, Yeah, it's that everybody, the personnel that they choose, fits his

scheme very well. He has a real good feel for that part of it. And they all are very very disciplined. They're all where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there. They don't necessarily have guys that jump off tape like wow, well geez, look at that. But man, it's like an amiba. I mean, it's totally in conjunction. There's no disjointedness to it anywhere. Watching them on tape, it's it's so fluid, it's it is. It's like it's choreographed.

I mean, it's amazing to watch. And that's you know, that's that's the thing about that that defense. I do think they do have great players in the secondary. I think it's the best back end combined maybe in the National Football League. I think it's as good as anybody's. And when you look at it, one of the great matchups in this game are the three Bengals wide receivers, Chase, Higgins and Boyd sixty catches, fifty seven and fifty five. No other team has three wide receivers with fifty five

or more catches. They got three players. But it's running backs are tight ends and that sort of thing against you know, these two guys in the secondary. Simmons is safety with five picks is tied for third in the league, and Sir Tan with four is tied for eighth in the National Football League. Nobody else has a duo, a dynamic duel with nine interceptions, and nobody else has a terrific trio of wide receivers that are as balanced is

what the Banks have. So it's gonna be a it's going to be a very interesting, interesting battle, I think in that way. But it's put together well, it's constructed as schematic is so is so sound. They're they're very, very stout defensively. And I have to give credit to my former first roommate I ever had with the Cincinnati Bengals,

Billy Kohlar. He was the first pick of the draft in my draft in nineteen seventy four, first round pick for the Bengals out of Montana State, and I played with him in the Senior Bowl and he won the Dodge Charger. He was player of the game, he won, he won the new car. He was driving around in a baby blue Dodge Charger convertible, so he was he was pimping all over the place. Man. But just a great player in terms of I mean first step quickness, relentless,

just effort guy. That's how his defensive lineman all play, they penetrate. He was. He was unbelievable that way, he would penetrate, disrupt. That's that's what he believes in. He doesn't like this two gap stuff. He wants to get an edge. He wants to trade, he wants to disrupt. And all of his defensive lineman are you know, want to take a look at it. And it's like, oh, that's Billy Kohler's influence right there. Boy, I think Chub is their best guy, you know now on the edges

from a rusher standpoint. But this this kid, Jones ninety three, he's a disruptive guy. I can. I can just hear Billy right now standing right behind him in practice in his ear. Come on, Jones, come on, give me something, give me all you got. I mean, that's just the way he He was a son of a gun in pass rushtral I mean he would he would bring he would bring it in in one on one pass rushtrol like it was the you know, the last quarter of the Super Bowl. He was just a great effort guy.

So that's what they have up front. Then they have linebackers that can run behind those guys, and then they have that that secondary. So it's well conceived, it's well put together, and like you said Dan their second in the NFL h in points aloud, They're only given up like seventeen point eight points per game in their wins. In their wins, it's it's crazy. They've they've allowed ten point seven points per game in their victories. In the

seven wins, they've only given up seventy five points. The most that anybody scored against them as sixteen points by the Cowboys down in Dallas. The Chargers they held to thirteen points. I mean, that's that's getting it done. So this defense, it bends, but it doesn't break. I mean they do. They do a lot of things well. Their second in the NFL and first downs allowed as well. I mean they keep you out of the end zone. They don't allow you to move the chains all that easily.

It's uh. The Bengals are seventh in the NFL and scoring their second in the NFL and points allowed. The red zone. Defense is good. Defensively, they're eighth in the NFL, allowing a touchdown only fifty one point seven percent of the time seven times. They haven't allowed a point. That's in the top ten in the league. So it's going to be it'll definitely be a big, big battle between between the Bengals offense in that Denver Broncos defense. It's

going to be a stirring battle and the Jones. You mentioned Draymond Jones as a former Buckeye who was from Cleveland Saint Ignatious High School. The Broncos, like the Bengals, are seven and six. Denverse started three and zero, but then you look at the teams they beat. The Giants are four and nine, the Jags are two and eleven, the Jets are three and ten, so that's combined nine and thirty. Then they lost four in a row, including the other three teams in the AFC North, the Ravens, Steelers,

and Browns all beat them. They've gone four and two. Since you referenced the Dallas game, that was a great win, thirty to sixteen in Dallas. They won by four touchdowns last week against Detroit. If the Bengals play their a game, they're low turnover a game, which we've seen on obviously several occasions this year. Did the Bengals win I think? I think that's what they're going to have to do to win the football game, because that's one thing that

Denver doesn't do. They don't give the ball away. You know, they're turnovers are They've only got fifteen giveaways, tied for seventh in the National Football League. So you mentioned Vic Fangio. He wants to run the football. I mean in the games that they've run the ball thirty in their last five games, they've won three and lost two. And the games they've won them, they've run the ball thirty or more times. In the games they've lost, they've thrown it

thirty more times. So their formula is run the football. Against Detroit they ran the ball twenty eighth straight times, So they want to he wants to pound the ball. He wants to control the clock, and they've done a great job of that. They're fifth in the NFL thirty one minutes and thirty seven seconds a game. Because on fourth down, Dan, that's the other thing on this game. Fourth down, they've gone fourteen for twenty two. That's a lot of attempts and a lot of success. That's tied

for second best in league. It's sixty three point six percent. Team's gone at board against them too, twenty three times. They've only allowed eight conversions. That's second in the NFL at thirty four point eight percent. So they've dominated fourth down, and that helps you dominate time of possession because you're extending drives and it's almost like a turnover. You're ending drives with people on downs, it's like you know, you're

taking the ball away. There's no kick that the drive hasn't ended in the punt, extra point or field goal. So that's the reason that they're a fifth in the National Football League in time of possessions. So that that's his whole, his whole m o, you know. And they want to limit their mistakes and capitalizing the opponent mistakes. That's what they play sound defense and minimize their mistakes and wait for the opponent the opposition to make mistakes.

That to me is a Vic Fangiol blueprint for how he wants to play football. So I think that that that's the huge thing Dan is if they give it away, they're dead meat. I mean, they're they're in serious trouble. Um the Bengals on the season in terms of turnovers, it's it's crazy. Their their numbers there four and one this year when they're in the plus category two and oh, when it's even one in five when they've lost the

turnover margin. But even more significant than that. They've all in the seven wins, they have five giveaways in the in the six losses, sixteen giveaways. So that's the that's almost something that you can track. It's it's it's that simple. If you take care of the football, you have a hell of a chance to win in the football game. If you don't, you're in trouble. How do you broadcast

at high altitude? That is strength, I will I will say, though, you know, I remember the first time we played there in nineteen seventy five and beat them there, and then I was ten in a row going out there to Denver. And in twenty seventeen the Bengals broke that streak and one out there. But I remember the first time I

went out there. It was first year as a starter, and it was kind of early early in h in the season and playing against Randy Gratis Shaw and Rulon Jones and Ruben Carter and all these guys, and man, I am geeked man and I'm running around and have the adrenaliner. It wasn't like I was couldn't breathe, but you do get winded faster, so you just have to you have to make a little bit of an adjustment, but you can't dwell on it. You can't let it

get in your head. There's no there's no question about it. But yeah, it'll be. And we're up higher, we're even we were a few year yards higher in our booth and they're on field level. It's five thousand, two and eighty feet, but I don't know how many couple hundred feet there. I mean we're five thousand, four hundred and eighty feet, not two eighty. It will be light headed, really, really, it'll be. Huh, it's gonna be. It'll be. It'll be fun. I do remember this is in the old stadium now.

It was this old rickety wooden press box. And those fans rocked and they would do the sway and stuff. It's like, man, the boots started moving. Literally it would feel it would move like an inch or two. It was crazy. It would actually rock. We'd be holy mackerel, you gonna hold on for dear life here. We won't have to deal with that this time, though, a much

more on Sunday's game. Tune into the Bengals pep Rally Show this Friday afternoon from three to six on ESPN fifteen thirty or on the iHeart media app by searching for ESPN fifteen thirty. Now time for this week's one on one player conversation. I caught up with safety Ricardo Allen this week. A few days before his thirtieth birthday. He was part of a Super Bowl team of the Falcons, and Ricardo has valuable advice for his younger teammates as

they had into a critical four games stretch. Ricardo, this is your seventh year in the NFL. You're coming up on game number one hundred if you include playoff games. How do you deal with a gut wrenching loss like last week? Do you go home and play with the kids? Do you watch Sunday Night football with a glass of

wine or two? What's your process? I typically go home and I try to play with my kids and you know, talk to the game with my wife at first, and then later on I'll probably uh stay up and watch a little bit of the Sunday Night football and then I'll play a little bit of mad So I gotta, I gotta, I gotta go to sleep with a win. At least I try to get on there and beat

everybody on line. So you were out there for quite a few defensive snaps last week and involved in trying to cover George Kittle, which obviously is hard to do. Is he about as close to unstoppable as any player in this league? Yeah, he is a very tough player to get out of their game plan against it. Um, you know, he's strong, he's fast, he can, he does

really good job of blocking defensive line. He does really good job of you know, getting good match up because he's he's he's strong enough to fight with the defensive lineman. He's fastening up the wrong with the dbs, you know.

So it's like he has like a good ball in and then he has a really good head coach who also has a good offersive coordinator who knows how to get him into like boys, knows how to get him into spots that uh there's not many people and he would get a lot of one on one and stuff. So they do a really good job of featuring him to get him, um, you know, good completions and easy catches and stuff, because he is a really good guy with the ball in his hand. And then the times

you do cover him, well, he still makes the catch. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what it is. It's like he is a freak of a nature, like a like athlete at that. So you know, the coach does a good job of scheming stuff up to make it real easy for him a lot of times. But even when you do cover him well like you said he will, he still will catch it. We're chatting with Ricardo Allen. You're seven and

six with four games to go. If he can go three and one, you would definitely make the playoffs, very similar to what you encountered with Atlanta back in twenty seventeen. Then you were seven and five and went three and one on the stretch to make it. Is there anything you learn from that experience that this team needs to do when it comes down to those those tough games at the end, um, you gotta do whatever you can

to pull them out. You got to. You gotta keep you know, scratching, clawing and fighting and once you see an opportunity to close the door on like a really good team. Because all these teams we're playing right now, as you can see this year in the league, the records are weird. Everyone has almost near the same record. There's a couple of teams who separated themselves. But I will see, it seems like that this year the records

seem to be like fairly close. And when you get a chance to close the door on a team you have you have to you have to take their chances, and you can't give them a chance to fight back because as you can see, like we'll fighting team, we will fight back from you know, twenty points down, but also other teams will always keep fighting to the end. And as you can see, like, no matter what, these games statistically come down to, I guess one touchdown. I

don't know. I think like eighty percent of the game typically come down to you know, less than one touchdown. So if we understand that, we got to know that it's gonna be a fight to the end. It has been kind of a wild roller coaster ride of a year. There have been games where you've dominated really good teams and then frustrating losses where you've kind of shot yourselves in the foot. Is that part of the learning process for a young team that has not been in playoff

contention in recent years? Yes, you know, even though no one wants to hear that, just do the research of any championship team, you know. I listened to a lot of Bill Washing and I listened to a lot of like old school like football and stuff, and it always typically seemed that it's like a three year window for a new coach to come in first of all, before a team typically gets on like a consistent winning path.

But with that up and down, it also comes with you know, winning some games, you know, and showing your team that like, okay, you can beat really good teams, but also losing some games to some teams that you know, you make sometimes consider a trap game. And then you

have to what really good teams is. They find out how to just give every team respect and let you know, every win be equal because it doesn't matter like at the end of the day if you go out there and you beat team by forty points or you go out there and be the team by one point, and even the same with the losses at the end of the day is all window dressing just to get to win. Let's just get this win. At the end of the day,

I just want to beat the team. I don't care if they won five championships before or they've never been to a playoff game, Like, let's give them the respect and just beat them. We're chatting with Ricardo Allen. The Bengals secondary is made up of some great leaders, Mike Kelton, Jesse Bates, Fine Bell, chittab A Wogia yourself. What stands out to you about this group? Man's um, this is one of the most like accountable, I could say groups

that I've ever been around. Everyone in here takes pride in like noring their calls, making their plays, being in the right spot. And it's not a team a group that very like never really points fingers to the other person, like they're always looking for what can I do better? How can I get better? Uh? You know Cheeto coming in all the time and just being willing to take

the challenge of the number one receiver. You know, Um, you know Eli even just jumping in there and you know, taking into a spot that when Trey went down, he was just ready to you know, feel the spot. You know, Jesse and Vaughn always you know, feeling the void of being the leaders in the room, trying to do it

the right way. And then you know Mike, who is another adam this team that's just not willing to you know, not afraid to stay and stand up in front of the group and correct the group and not afraid to be that guy that you know, said what needs to be said. So you know, we have a good group and a good blend of guys in our room, and you know we're just gonna keep fighting. You had to den for this week. You've played there before. You're in for every snap and a win over the Brown Coast.

Could you feel a difference playing at high altitude? Yes, yeah, there's just there's a little difference. Um, you'll see that some of the games that you play in. Um, just even warming up out there, you can you can feel a little bit of the difference. It's uh, you know, once the game started stuff like that, you you already tired, like no matter what, just like playing hard. But it is like a small different just warming up, you can.

You can. It's something there. It's kind of like hard to say like what it is, but you feel yourself just to get a little bit more fatigue and you have to make sure you stand hydrated and make sure you only like your card or your hard. This week, this is a two headed monster team with two running backs that each have more than seven hundred rushing yards,

Javonte Williams and Melvin Gordon. How significant is that when you're on the other side of the ball, that is a tough feet because you always think about like us as athletes, at least myself, I'm always looking at a team and trying to figure out, like, Okay, what personnel do I believe is the easiest personnel that if we was to get the matchup on defense, what personnel could I feel that I can focus more on the wide receivers than having to focus on the backfield. And sometimes

it is a backup running back. Some backup running backs in this league that if you take out like the starter, the second one is like a guy that like none of them is like, you know, no running back is a bomb, but some of them you really don't have to focus on. With both these guys, it's not the case because you take you know, Gordon out and you put you know, the young Buck in. He is you know, I guess the best in the league are now breaking tackles and after contacts, so you know, Gordon is already

a tough feat within themselves. And then you put the young Buck in and then their wide receivers are not you know, scrubs either. So you got to be smart enough as a safety to stay deep enough because they will be too deep. And then you got to also be you know, good enough to come down and make an open field tackles. So like that's all what I'm always thinking of. It's like, you know, they got good enough wide receivers are stretched the field, it's gonna keep

me deep enough. But also I got to be able to play at level one when it's running back breaks out behind the linebackers to you know, make the play so it don't go for a long down. So when I'm thinking about like those two total opposite things, that's why I believe this is a you know, a special offense, even though it doesn't always seem with the record. A couple more questions for Ricardo Allen. It's your first year

at the Bengals after six with the Falcons. What's it been like for you to be in a new city and live in a new city. Oh, it's been amazing. And this city is like very welcome and it's a genuine family. You like feel everyone loves the being with everyone's all in for the community. Um, it's very uh, you don't know, it's been really cool. I always wonder like how would it feel to go somewhere else, knowing that I was, I mean, with the Falcons for so long,

and um, I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed it a lot. Just a new field. Everybody taking me you know, very well down here. Um, everyone loves it out here. The food's great, good living for my kids and stuff, good school system. So it's been, you know, all I can dream of so far. Just a couple more wins with help. No question about that last thing you turned. You turned

thirty the day before the Broncos game on Sunday. I've said in a previous conversation, I believe you will be an NFL head coach someday, and I still feel that way. Do you want to play as long as you possibly can or are you getting close to the point where

you want that coaching career to get underway? Yeah? See, Um, that is probably my toughest question that I'm on with actually right now myself, as uh, you know, like this is my first year coming to a team and actually just being like a piece, like maybe a guy that just you know, sometimes just used in certain situations and things like that, and um, you know which is which is cool if it's a guy who is okay with settling in a sense, um and um me, I want

to come over here. I'm giving this team and giving everything I got, you know, to to the Bengals and all I have. But that uh, that coaching piece is something that UH is pulling at me. And I don't know, you know, like I'm hitting thirty, which is something that I always wanted to go forward. And you never know in this league. You know, one year you can be, you know, with a team, and you know, I'm on one year deals right now, so one year I can be with a team, and the next year I might

not be. So I try to take it, you know, a day by day as as uh as much as I can. But I'm always ready for any opportunity that princess itself. So next year, let's say, if I wasn't to get you know, resigned with the Bengals or any team was to go, probably would be you know, in my coaching path as soon as possible. I probably wouldn't

take any time down. I will go. I've had some undercover offers in the sense, but right now, all I'm focusing on is trying to get his team to the playoffs as much as I can trying to you know, throw this body and have as much fun as I can and give all I can to this team because you know, I want to make the most of it before I do hang it up and start working for my next uh you know, way up the mountain. You're seven years in, which is already an incredible accomplishment. Happy

birthday this weekend, and thanks for the time. I appreciate you. Thank you. Allen has been an excellent addition to the Bengals locker room. He was a four time team captain in Atlanta. The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play fantasy football game. Ultimate Bengals will be awarding a weekly winner during the course of the season with tickets, autograph merchandise, and money can't buy experiences all up for grabs. Find Ultimate Bengals in the App

Store and Google Play. Last week, Jamar Chase made Bengals history as he joined Chris Collinsworth in AJ Green as the only Bengals rookies to top one thousand receiving yards. Jamar is twenty three yards away from breaking AJ's record. Chase has already broken the team record for touchdown catches by a rookie with ten in this week, I spoke to the Bengals legend, who had nine back in nineteen

seventy three. The Bengals have had some remarkable receivers in their history, but none better than Isaac Curtis, who was so good that the league had to change the rules to prevent defensive backs from holding him and hitting him all over the field. Isaac, great to be with you. Let's start with Jamar Chase, who has more than a thousand receiving yards and ten touchdown catches in his first thirteen NFL games. What are your impressions of Numero Uno

so far? I'm extremely impressed. I'll tell you what. He is A dynamic receiver that can just uh it really opens a fill up. I mean he could stress to Phil and this this his athletic ability and you know his ability to get open uh. And he's you know, he's a good young receiver. I'll tell you what. He's going to be, UH, dynamic receiver for a lot of years with Cincinnati, with the Bengals era, they're they're very

lucky to have him. He's he's a tremendous athlete. You were the first prominent Bengal to wear the number eighty five. Then Chad Johnson came along, then Tyler Eiffert, now Tee Higgins. How about Tea? What stands out when you watch team perform? He does everything. I mean he he runs really great routes, He catches the ball, he gets open um, he's just a you know, they Cincinnati, they have a really tremendous young receiving corps, and I think they're gonna be around.

They're gonna be just gonna get better as the years, as the years uh go along, especially with with Burrows, you know, being so young. Uh, they got a bright, bright future with that receiving cores. And let's get to the third member of the so called Cincinnati three way, Tyler Boyd. What makes him great in the slot Just his ability to just to read the defenses to make to be in the right place at the right time. Uh, you know, he come and gets in and out of

his brakes. Well he catches the ball. Well, um all, I just say, all of them are really really impressive, uh wide receivers. But they are, They're they're gonna be They're gonna be good for quite a while, I think, And I can say they can only get better. We are visiting with the great Isaac Curtis. You played with one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history, and Ken Anderson. Do you see a lot of Kenny when you watch Joe Burrow. I think his accuracy some of

his leadership, you know. But but but I think from my accuracy standpoint, Burrows is extremely accuracy. I mean, and he just uh, you know, he's just he just has a presence that he stands up. It's you know, he stands and get to that pocket. You know that that I think that that all the guys can fill and receivers can fill it. And and this is a tremendous, tremendous quarterback. But like I say, he throws a good ball,

it looks like it's an easy ball to catch. Kenny was very accurate to a very good ball to catch, you know. And his timing with his quarters with his receivers are great. Burroughs timing with his receivers are really really great. And I think to say that, I think it's only going to get better as the years, as the years go by, the more they play together. Isaac,

I referenced how you changed the NFL. They started the Isaac Curtis rule basically to stop defensive backs from mugging wide receivers at least after the first five yards from the line of scrimmage. Is the NFL a more entertaining game because of the Isaac Curtis rule, I actually think so, you know, I think it's it's opened up the passing game. It's kind of make it more of a wide open UH league, and the passing game is wide opened, and

I think that's really good for a spectators. But yeah, I think it has opened it up by a And you know, back in the days when I was coming up, you know, of course, they didn't have that rule. They can cut you, chop you, they can do whatever they want. And I think the rue thing that really spurred that on was we played in Miami Dolphins in the playoff game and Essex Johnson was a tremendous running back. I think it was probably the first play of the game

or second play offensive play. Essex Johnson broke through the middle, got hit, hurt his knee, and then and the next thing was just let's just take Isaacs say Curtis out of the game. And they just started coming up they would just cut you. You know, they wouldn't try to cover you. I mean, they were just trying to take you out. And that's what happened is it started becoming that type of the game where I would have a corner that would roll up and just coming to try

to cut me. Sometimes I'd have corner roll up try to hold you up, and then there's an outside linebacker they come and try to cut you out from the side. So it has really opened the game up. And that's how that rule was spurred on, you know, with Paul Brown going to the Ruse committee talking with them about you know, what they're doing to wide receivers and you know, you got playmakers and you're you're you're not trying to cover them or contain them. What you're doing is just

trying to take them out. And so they came up with that with that five yard bump row. You know, after five yards you cannot you got to you know, disengage with the h with the white outs, which is which was really a good rule. You know, it's it's it took some time because initially when it passed, it wasn't helping that much. But you know, I've never really complained about it because that's the way the game was

played back then. Did defensive backs ever joke with you that you made it much harder on them once that role was passed. I had a couple of them that said that made it's made it. It's not fair, you know. And now, especially when you get some of these receivers that could run and dig and go down field after five yards, you can't you can't touch them, you know, you got to disengage with them. It makes it. It makes it very difficult on the defensive back. Uh, it really,

it really does. But I think it's for the better the game, and some of the other changes that they've made in the league is better for the much better for the game a long. You know, like the cutting where we used to crack back and cut and get they'll below the waist, you know, all that stuff is cut out and that that stops a lot of leg and knee injuries. So I think a lot of the route changes have made the game a lot, a lot better,

a lot safer. But sometimes it does drive me crazy the way they throw some of the flags without and they say passing affairans and I'm looking at passing affairs. You know, that's nothing, you know, but just incidental contact. My broadcast partner Dave Lapham says, if you had played today, with the way that they throw the ball, your statistics would have been crazy. Do you ever wonder what it would have been like if you were playing now? I

think it would be fun. I don't think about it too much anymore, but at times I have thought how much fun it is to watch the game now, and how much freedom the wide receivers have at least, like I said, at least from being hit and pushed and uh, you know, on the on the field. But you know, back when I came in, we were more balanced. It was a more balanced game, more balanced offense, you have more running. It just seemed to be more more balanced. Now it's it's leaned towards more wide open of a

passing game. So yeah, I think the statistics would have been much better, you know, But you know, it is what it is. I came along too early. Well, this is the fortieth anniversary of the nineteen eighty one Super Bowl team, Isaac, and you average sixteen and a half yards per catch that year. All these years later, what does it mean to you to have been part of

the first Bengals team to make up to a Super Bowl. Well, I think it was That was a very special time because I think when you you know, even as a young kid, when you're coming in the league and you're playing, that is the one goal that every every player that's that's uh that comes in the league, I would love to play in a Super Bowl. And that's everybody's goal. And so they have the opportunity to be able to

play in the Super Bowl. With the team that I played with with with Kenny and Chris and Lewis Breeden and no I mean just you know, Reggie Williams is all the guys we had. We had a tremendous team and we were a very close team. We were a good team, but we were very close uh as a as a as a group as well. But I couldn't you know, of course, it would have been better, we'd

have won it. But but it was certainly special to have the opportunity to play in a Super Bowl, especially with the group of guys that I had the opportunity to play with. And I say it was a tremendous team. We had a lot of fun together on the field, off the field. I couldn't. I you know, I couldn't ask for anything else. Does it feel to you, Isaac, like the Bengals are building a contender with Joe Burrowd quarterback. Oh?

I think so. I thought when I watched him last year, I said, boy, I'll tell you what, they got him, franchise quarterback. He's a real deal and I'm really I'm really impressed with him. He said. He's just got such a great air about himself. And you know, he's got a nice coup calm head. The way he sits back there in that pocket. He's good. He's good. I think we can keep him healthy. He's going to be good

for a lot of years. We got some really good jung quarterbacks in the league all over the league, but I think Burrows is one of the special ones, and I think he will be for years to come. I know Joe loves the receivers that he has, but I guarantee he would have loved throwing to you. And it's great to talk to one of the best to ever do it. Thanks so much for your time, Isaac, and happy holidays. Well, thank you, thanks for thanks for having me in and enjoy the holidays. Last but not least

it's time for this week's Know the Faux segment. When the Broncos lost four straight games and traded away Von Miller, I wrote them off. But they've played well since, including a dominant win over the Cowboys in Dallas. I asked Denver reporter Mike Cliss about it when he joined lapping me. I'm a Bengals game plan show. Yeah. That is funny how things work in sports sometimes, isn't it. It's for some reason the Vaughan Miller trade wasn't a white flag. It was more of a kick in the pants for

the for the Bronco players. They got a little healthier. They got Jerry Judy back, They got Bradley Chubb back. They were out during that four game losing streak with with ankle injuries. That was a factor. Um. I think Fanjoe tightened up his defense. They had some inside linebacker problems. They're they're now on their They've played eight uh eight players at the two inside linebacker spots this year, which if you added up, that's that year down to your

four stringers. And but the rookie Brandon Browning's playing better. They they got some guys that weren't very physical, so they've been a little more decent stopping the run and they've done a better job of running the ball themselves. Melvin Gordon and Javante Williams. Uh, you know, they really stepped up. The matchups have been good for the Broncos. You know how it goes, everybody is you know, I say this, It seems like nobody in the league is good this year, you know, so you got just as

much chance as any to beat someone else. And the Lions came along at the right time, and you know, they're feeling pretty good about themselves as they go against much improved Bengal team. Is it as simple as okay, run the football efficiently and effectively and play good defense, they're gonna win games. If we don't run the ball well enough and have to throw it, we're going to struggle. The last five games, when they've been able to run the ball thirty times a more, they get three wins.

When they've had to throw it thirty times some more, they have two losses. So is it that simple? Is the formula contingent on getting those two running backs going and then playing solid defense. Yeah, that's true. The only thing I would just say to that is sometimes you can't run the ball. They don't let you run the ball, you know. I mean it's not like, yeah, it's the formula, run the ball and play action. And Teddy's pretty good, you know, he's an efficient Last week he was eighteen

out of twenty five to one hundred and eighty yards. No, that's pretty much Teddy Bridgewater. Two touchdowns, no, no turnovers. I think only one sack. But sometimes, you know, if they play seven in the box, you can't run the ball, and sometimes you go against some defensive linemen and inside linebackers that it's not easy to block those guys. So yeah, they would love to run the ball thirty times. But I'll tell you another thing, there's there's one more rents

into that formula. The defense as good as it is. Three times this year after two drives, they've been down to nothing. They've been down ten nothing before the offense gets its fourth offensive play, and so that takes you out of your running rhythm. You know, you're this offense is not built, you know, primarily because Teddy's not a you know, he's not a twenty five yard down the field passer. He's much more patient. You know, his arm strength isn't isn't there with Josh Allen or anything or

Patrick Mahomes. But when they're down ten nothing, you know, they come out of their game. They just don't get into an offensive rhythm. And that's happened three times to

him this year. So the defense, as good as they look statistically, they tend to not show up until the second quarter, and you know then they you know, then they tighten things up and but it spend those slow starts that it hasn't been a complimentary defense with an offense that does need to run the ball and and news play action and those three games, Mike, did they

come out flat? One of them was a little joke and I yeah, well, you know, Fangio always says that you know, when when you're getting you know, it's like baseball, when you're getting no hit, you know, you look flat. Uh, you know, you can't hit the when when you're when when the other team is steamrolling you, you know, like uh,

one of them was at Cleveland Browns game. He might have saw it on Thursday night and Cleveland had their top two running backs out, their mayfield was out, and they just ran it down the Broncos groats and uh yeah, they looked pretty flat that day. Um right, and yeah, so yeah, I know what you guys are getting at. And uh, you know that was the Cowboys, right, the Broncos jumped on the one time the defense had a had a big u a fourth down stop on the

first two drives, and the Broncos jumped on. And Jerry Jones says, that was the plattists I've ever seen our teams. Yeah, you know, when you get punched in the notes, I guess you come out flat. Yep, your nose is flat, that's for sure. Mike Less from Denver is our guest Mike. Three years ago, the Bengals and the Broncos were both in the market for a new head coach. Cincinnati, like a lot of other teams in the NFL that year, looked for a young, offensive minded head coach and hired

Zach Taylor, and the Broncos took the opposite approach. They went for an older guy who had been a longtime defensive coach, Vic Fangio. What have been your impressions of Vic Fangio over the last two and a half years. By the way, I'll give you a little anecdote there, the Broncos had a five man finalist list. Zach Taylor was interviewed. He was interviewed right before Vic Fangio, and ostensibly always grand plan was Fangio is going to be the head coach, and he wanted Zack Taylor, who was

then the quarterback coach for the Rams. As you guys know, he made a big leap there head coach and he had never been a coordinator before. Elway wanted him as the offensive coordinator here. That was he wanted a young offensive coordinator is going to be Zach Taylor, and Fangio is going to be his defensive coordinator slash head coach. But you guys threw a wrench into that and by go ahead and hiring him as the head coach, and you know, Fangio, I think, like Zach Taylor, he's had

some growing pains. Vick's not a ra ra guy. He's low key, and when you're not winning, you know, they say he doesn't have enough fire. And when you're not winning, he doesn't know about offense. The offense has struggled here really since two thou fourteen, not even since Peyton left, Since the year before Peyton left. Peyton's last year was nine touchdown seventeen interceptions. So they've struggled for a while

on offense. But now that he's but now that they've started to win, they've won four of their last six. You know, if Angio's getting credit for staying the course, for not panicking, you know, everything is the same. You know, it's business as usual. I think you know, if you had done this interview six weeks ago, I would have said it didn't look good for Vic, you know, coaching after this season. Now it seems like, you know, this team is really pointing up and he's got a real

chance to coach next year. With the Broncos, you got a dynamic duo at running back, and in the secondary you have Gordon and Williams. Gordon Williams are combined for fourteen hundred plus yards and ten touchdowns rushing. And then in the secondary, Sir Tan has four interceptions, Simmons has five. If you had to pick which dynamic duo has been the most important to the success of the Broncos this year. Cool. Uh,

that's uh, that that's uh, that's a good one. Um. Simmons is as a safety is generally partnered up with Kareem Jackson. It was also a good player. Uh, you guys know him. He's been in the league twelve years.

Or tan is A is a rookie. Fine, I don't know, Uh that is I guess I don't I guess I don't want to pick on that one, because you're right, you just picked the strength of the team, you know, the uh you know, they need a little more than that in the passing game on offense, and they need a little more, you know, beefy men to stop the run on defense. Um, but those are those are your

your four best players here, um all around. The biggest upgrade though, that this team has made, guys, has been and you know, I know he doesn't get much credit, but the biggest upgrade has been at quarterback. Drew Locke, who has far more talent, just was way more careless with the football. Teddy, who's limited in his abilities, is very smart and and takes care of the football and

does things like convert third and sixes. You know, he may throw at five yards and the guy's got to run a couple to convert it, but but he does things like that, and so I really think that's why the Broncos are seven and six. You you picked out the strengths there those four players, and then at quarterback they're just it's just more winning football at that position this year. Yeah, and VIC fan Joe being a defensive

oriented head coach. I bet one thing he can't stand as a quarterback that turns it over, that's for sure. Final question, Mike can appreciate the time you've carved special teams. The punt game. The Broncos are in the league returning punts in their eighth covering punts, kickoff returns, they're thirty first in the league, returning them in thirty second in the league covering them, allowing almost thirty eight yards for

a turn one hundred and two yard touchdown. Why why the up and down They've they've blocked three kicks, you know, I mean they they've had their ups and downs. It's almost like a roller coaster. The Bengals have had some roller coasters in some areas. Why the roller coaster and special teams? Yeah, that that and it's been like that for three or four years. I always say the kickoff. You know, they solved their kickoff return coverage last week.

McManus kick six touchnacks out of six kickoffs, you know here in the mile high air. Why is you know, just boot them all out, you know, And maybe that's what Fanjie finally told Tom McMahon to do. Just boot them all out and let them start at the twenty five The Lions all six kickoff. They started at the twenty five all six times on them off of McManus kickoff. And that's one reason why I was a Special Teams Player of the Week. So that solves that problem. Uh,

you know, return it's not dynamic. You know, they've they have had injuries, and you guys know when you have injuries, that filters down to the back end of the roster, and the back end of the roster is where the special teamers are. And that has been a steady flow. It's never been consistent, especially at the inside. I talked about inside linebacker. Inside linebacker is the body type that you want on special teams and so that's been a revolving door. That's you know, I think that's that's part

of it too. And you know, I don't know, maybe Tom McMahon has a system in place that that works if everybody's executing. But if you know, one little a cog in the wheel slips up, it messes up everything. It all falls apart, and that's what's happened. You know this year you said it was kickoff returns they stink at. The previous year, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it was probably punt returns. Say they

stunk at, and we're pretty good at kickoff returns. I just think it's just the turnover at the back end of the roster because of injuries. That's probably the biggest culprit. Sunday's game in Denverse starts at four oh five Cincinnati time, and the Broncos are favored by two and a half. That's going to do it for this episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast brought to you by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play Next Level Fantasy Football game downloaded now

from the App Store and Google Play. And if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thank you for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast. M HM