Bengals Booth Podcast: Start Me Up

new head code Zach Taylor. We'll discuss AJ Green's injury and what it means to the Bengals offense, take a look at a few players who have stood out in the early going, and discuss coach Taylor's approach to trying to keep the team as fresh and as healthy as possible leading up to the regular season opener in Seattle. And in this week's fun Facts conversation, you'll get to know one of the best special teams coaches in the NFL,

Darren Simmons. We'll discuss a wide variety of topics, including his playing career as a college quarterback and punter, his favorite special teams play in sixteen years as a Bengals coach, and his ultimate goal of becoming a head coach. Those conversations are straight ahead, but first here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered rite to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean. It's

the greatest invention since YouTube how to videos. I am ashamed to admit that I am probably the world's least handy person. Other than changing a light bulb or filling my gas tank, I'm basically useless. But I'm getting a little better thanks to the numerous how to videos you can find on YouTube. For example, this week, I replaced the watch band on my running watch. Now that might sound pretty rudimentary to you, but trust me, it was a borderline miracle. Now time for football is I bring

in my broadcast partner, Dave lappam Lapp. Quite a first week for new head coach Zach Taylor and his first practice as the Bengals head coach. A. J. Green goes down about forty five minutes into practice, the first day that the Bengals are supposed to be in full pads, it gets canceled due to lightning. He has quote unquote weathered the storm pretty well. I think I think, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, it's one thing about him that I felt like after meeting him on and

off the field as such. Is that he was steady, very steady personality wise, and I think it's pretty much born fruit there, you know. I think he's he's had a couple of howards is thrown out him and he's just you know, just shucks him like like it's no problem, which I think is a good sign. Um, you know, it doesn't get flustered easily. I think that's going to be a good good indicator of his temperament during the

course of a game. I think he'll keep his cool, uh and stay level headed and be able to make good, solid decisions because you know, he won't be emoting as such. So I think those are those are all good signs. You know. Aj Green, it's just so unfortunate. I've had a chance to talk to him a little bit and he's he was just so you know, for AJ he was as down as I've seen him. And that he said, you know, laugh, I never got hurt now all of a sudden, the last three years, it just seems to

be an injury bug a boo. And uh, he was he was definitely you know, sad's not the word for it. It was. It was even sadder than sad. But then I saw him a day later and he was already his spirits were already, you know, starting to bounce back. So I think he is a quick healer, you know, I think he will scar, which has to happen, you know, after injuries and after surgery if there's ligament tears, and you know, the problem with those kind of things is when you have an injury and a joint, you know,

there's so many things in there. There's bone, there's ligament, there's tendons, there's sheaths around the tendons and ligaments, and all of those things can be messed up. There's a lot of soft tissue and a lot of things that and the soft tissue can affect the bone and it can be bone chips and all these particular in there.

I mean, over the years, I've I've had some injury, and teammates of mine have had injury, and you know, you just get to learn to realize that sometimes until you get in there as such, which is I think it's a wise thing that they did. You don't really know what you're looking at. And m R eyes are great, don't get me wrong. Where I never had an m R. I don't even know what an mr I would would

feel like. I guess it doesn't feel like much of anything, But you know, the pictures are very very clear, so I think based on those pictures, I think they've decided they're better go in there and make sure that everything's everything's hunky dory as such, and hopefully he'll be he'll be back sooner rather than later, because that's a that's a huge, huge piece of an offense to miss, for sure. He had surgery on Tuesday. Zach Taylor said later that day that he's likely to miss at least the first

two games of the regular season. Do you think that that is an optimistic timetable for how quickly he could be back, You know, I hope it's a I hope

it's on the on the long end, you know. I mean, there's no way he's going to be around for the open to me, in a perfect not a perfect world, but a perfect world based on the world we're in right now, which is not a perfect world with the injury, if they could get him back for the Steeler game Week four, Week four and last game September Monday night football national television, big you know, a big game against

a division rival, I hated division rival. If AJ Green could come back and play in that game, that would be a shot of juice that this team would be. You know, it would be unbelievable. It's like getting a not just a first round pick, You're getting a future Hall of Famer, you know, back as a weapon. That would be a nice a nice component to having that game. That's gonna be a tough game, going on the road and playing against the Pittsburgh Steelers under the lights, uh,

with that crowd and everything that goes along with it. Um, you know, it's it's unfortunate. The thing the thing that you know, I look at it when I think you're gonna miss him for regular season games potentially you know, two or three games, maybe four. Okay, now you can put another guy in the box because there's not a weapon that you have to maybe worry about with doubling.

So if you really want to run the football like this team does, all of a sudden, you know, it's like the hands washing the other hand, A teams try to take them out of the football game. The only way to do it is to put a couple of guys on them. So now not having to worry about that, you might be able to load the box up a little bit more regularly. Now it's tougher for Joe Mixon. He's got to make the unblocked guy miss all the time.

It just becomes you know, in the National Football League, the biggest commodity you can have is space, and you try to create space. You try to make the defense defend every blade of grass you can. And if you've got a j and John Ross and all these components, your offense healthy, and you can spread the field out and stretch them horizontally by formation, then stretch them vertically by speed, by foot speed. You know, you get a

dynamic there. But if AJ is not in the mix, and John Ross isn't in the mix yet, but hopefully he should be, you know by the regular season. That's why if Malone shows he can play, he can run, I mean he can stretch it. John Ross can stretch it. You know, AJ can stretch it. And now you're having

to defend again horizontally en vertically. Wouldn't shock me, though, Dan if instead of eleven personnel, one running back, one tight end, maybe goes some twelve personnel because you've got seven tight ends in camp I think four of them are going to make the football team, and you know that'll help Darren Simmons as well, because you know it's you know, other than Tyler Eiffort, every other tight end that's on the football team could help him in a

special teams play. Plus the fact that you know, all of them have different skill set. Some are better blockers, some are better receivers, some can do both. Tyler Eiffort, you know, can do both. But I mean when he's on the field, they went nickel last year, whether he was on the field a loan or he was on the field as a as a second tight end. So at least if you go to personnel, you might get him in base defense and be able to balance him up so you can take away some of the funk

that they might be doing. You know, put a tight underneath the stide of line of scriment. Do you make them balance up? Now, all of a sudden, it's you have a base defense that's balance up, and it's a it's a different picture. So, I mean, there's a lot of things you can do. They're not hamstrong necessarily by losing a wide receiver. With respect to what they can do offensively, personnel wise, formations, all the things they're going to do. But when it's AJ Green, I mean that guy.

There's there's not very many guys, if any, in the league. Honestly, they can do all the things he can do. I mean he's got speed, quickness, his jackhammer, feed on that sideline, I hand coordination, I mean he does. We've seen him in practice two things that are out of this world. They're crazy. They just can't replace that. There's no good time to lose AJ Green that we know, But if it had to happen, I would think first day of camp would be the best time for two reasons. Why.

It gives him a chance to come back sooner in the regular season and not miss many games. But secondly, Andy Dalton, AJ Green have been doing this forever. They've got chemistry, and the offense is different, so the routes are a little bit different, but at least they've got that history, that shared history. If you're trying to get other wide receivers ready to play and contribute, then all this additional time at camp will be good for them. Agreed.

I think you're running the money on both points. I think that AJ Green is such a ridiculous physical freak of nature that he'll heal quickly and he won't need a whole lot of practice to ramp up to a high level. Maybe not as high level as AJ can be, but it's still a higher level than your average wide receiver around the National Football League. So you look at that. I mean, Julio Jones is saying he's not going to play a preseason stap. I'd venture to say Antonio Brown's

not going to play much in the preseason. All these elite groups wide receivers aren't going to play in preseason games anyway. And take a chance I'm losing. These guys are paying fifteen twenty million dollars a year or two, so AJ Green, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised that they were going to limit his snaps in preseason games anyway. But practice, repetition and all those things you're talking about

are important. But like you said, they've done it for eight years already, so they have a lot of that, but it is some different routes. And AJ was talking about getting his nose in the playbook, and he'd missed all the OTAs and the mini camps and all that, so he wanted to get that part of it, the study part of it, and then translating it to the

football field. And he's a rep guy. AJ likes to have reps on the practice field, So with those diminished, you know, there's a little bit of catching up to do there. So it's going to be interesting to see how how it all plays out. But I do think, I like think again looking at the very first workout today, Dan in pads Man, I mean, tight ends are motion and whamen knows, you know, defensive tackles and it's a play actually pass over that pass in the middle of

football field. You know, a receiver's wide open. Quarterbacks have changed in the launch point. You know, both ways, rolling right, rolling left. Linemen are pulling. Receivers are you know, in tight formations, the splits are tight to the formation and then they're wide and then they're motioning and then jet sweep motion and motion back the other way. There's a there's a lot going on, and then you'll see the defenses, I mean basically a lot of these motions and everything

will change the strength of the formation. Defensive lineman will be shifting, linebackers will be everybody's communicating shifting if you do this stuff at the end of the play clock, I mean there's a chance, in my mind, the later you do something like that, the higher the risk of them somebody not getting the line properly. Maybe you'll catch them. Not they're moving, they're not even in their stance where they're lined up improperly or whatever. So I like a

lot of the things that they're doing. I think it stresses a defense. I think there's there's a lot of things that that are positive there. And man, they ran the first team period. They're ran fifteen plays in like seven minutes. I mean they were they were boom. They were getting reps. When I went the pass rush drill, they were getting reps. I mean, you know, there was no standing around and talking about every fine point and

doing all this coaching and guys are not working. You know, they'll they'll coach him, but they'll coach him on the run and next guy's up and it's I mean, well, I'll tell you what. Coach Turner and Coach Easton got got a lot of reps in the pass rush, more more than I've seen. So I like the temple of everything they're doing, and I think that's going to translate, you know, out on the football field and defensively, you know,

they continue to impress. I mean, they continue to understand what coach Lou wants done and how he wants it done, and they're responding. I mean, I think I think that you know, again, this is the first padded workout, but like we talked about after the first practice on Bengals dot com, um it's it's happens every year, even if you've played a number of years. When you're anchoring your pads, the other thing you have to do is lower your pads.

And there's two ways to lower your pads. You can bend your knees to lower your pads, and that's the football functional way to do it, or you can bend at your waist and lower your paths. And that's not the good way to do it, because you know, you don't have flection in your knees. You're bending at your waist, your chins over your skis, over your feet, you're out of balance. But if you're bending at the knees properly and you're still a good football, powerful striking position, that's

a good way to lower your paths. And I saw some bending at the waist instead of bending in the knees. And that's just a repetition, breeds comfort level with guys, and that as well. The more you do it these you know, it's muscle memory stuff, and get back to doing that so that that'll ramp up quickly. And that's that's something that's noticeable every every year when training camp starts first padded practice. A couple of lineup nuggets from

the first padded practice. Number one, Christian Westerman was in there with the ones at the left guard position after John Jerry was the first left guard when they opened camp in Dayton last Saturday, and Ryan Glasgow lined up as one of the starting defensive linemen. Was rotating in there quite a bit with Andrew Billings at the defensive accle spot next to Geno Atkins. But Ryan Glasgow is the first guy out there coming off his knee injury. Yeah,

the good things to see Ryan Glasgow. I thought, uh, you know, he's a he's a sluggo man. He'll just go in there and mall with you. And he's just he is a blue collar lunch pail, all the cliche you want football player love, the guy of the effort. He gives football means something to him, means a lot to that guy, means a lot to his family. I think that's that's another football family of brothers and dads and you know, everybody's played, so um, it was good

to see him back and they're slugging it out. The other guy that I thought looked good was Carl Lowston coming off the edge. I wanted to see in pads. What did his first step look like? Was there some explosion? What was that takeoff looking like? And it was looking pretty good, pretty good for the first you know, time

in padded practice. So I thought those two guys, it was good to see them get out there and uh and show something and show that their rehab has gone one and they're ramping up, tracking up in the right direction. Starting center, Billy Price hasn't practiced yet. It sounds like he's going to be back any day now, so that's

good news. In the meantime, Trey Hopkins has been the number one center, no surprise there, but rookie Michael Jordan was the guy getting the second team reps at the center position, and that padded practice on Wednesday, Yeah, Michael Michael Jordan and Brian Lundblade a kind of like you know, rotated a little bit between the center and guard spot, and you know that's that's both of them have to show that they can play both of those positions if

they're going to make the football team. And Michael Jordan played center at Ohio State and played guard at Ohio State and even could play tackling emergency up there, so

you know he's got that position versatility. And like we've talked about a few times, whoever makes the team if they don't have a starting spot, not just two positions, not just like center and right guard, center, right guard, left guard, you have to show that you can you can play multiple positions because they that's why Trey Hopkins has a big advantage because he's so smart. He understands them all because assignment wise, and he's shown he can

play them. So he's got an inside track, you know, on being an extra lineman. If he doesn't get a starting position, well, they want to find out what other lineman can play not just two, but three of the five spots potentially, you know, you know, worst case scenario, you can't have a guy who's not a starter being just a backup center or just a backup right guard, but you can't play center or left guard. You just

can't do that. In today's NFL, you don't carry that many guys, So you know, I think they'll be moving guys around and taking to look see. And I bet we'll see some guys out there, particularly in preseason games, you know, kicking out there to the tackle positions. It's like, no, that's interesting, you know. I guess they want to see if he could do that in a pinch to finish the game or whatever. So there'll be some experimentation, for sure.

I thought the most disruptive defensive lineman in the first padded practice with Sam Hubbard moving into the starting lineup in Michael Johnson's old spot. And I think he's poised to have a really big second season in the NFL. Love him, Love everything about the guy because you know, his work ethic is unbelievable. I mean he gets up the football field with pressure and then just dead sprints back to wherever the football is. I mean that guy. The GPS tracker on him, i'd like to see for

a defensive lineman. I bet his miles parr. I bet he's he's rolling up there at a significant rate running. He's he can run. Man, he's got some speed and he's busting it. He's busting and he's putting smiles on. I mean, he's running a good distance and he's running at a high rate of speed. So just his work ethic, his hustle and you know, we steen, we saw him as a rookie being involved in a takeaway touchdown. That's because of his practice habits of you know, running to

the ball. You know, he'll pressure the quarterback if the ball so he'll run to where the ball is. And if one of his teammates makes a play in the balls in the ground, he's in prime position to do something with it and about it. So everything that he does is a high, high level of intensity. And uh, I love Sam Harvard and he can there's another guy that can. You know, he's shown he can play defensive end. He's shown he can slide inside the nickel and pass

rush in there. They used him as a defensive tackle in the regular you know, as a three technique in some instances last year as a rookie, you know, due to injury. That's not his Ford tape, but he's shown he can do it. So he's got positioned versatility as well. After that first padded practice, Zach Taylor said, the offense won early, the defense won late. It was interesting to watch new defensive coordinator lou An A. Rumo early when

the offense was dominating. He was almost Mike zimmer Esque in the way he was lighting up the defensive players. Finish blank blank blank finish, finish every point. I mean he was at a lot of blank blank blanks, and and you know it was like, Okay, that's good. I mean, hard coach him, and it's you know, the communication wasn't there. There were there were some mistakes and then play like like he was staying there. You know, there were miss tackles and not in position to make plays. And and

they flipped. They flipped the switch man. They turned it and turned turned their fortunes around. And the next three periods that were scoring periods, the defense dominated one at eighteen to three. Big reason for that big a margin is miss field goals, makeable field goals. I mean, one drive started from the thirty five yard line, there was some yards game and miss a field goal, missed another field goal in the red zone. Each kicker miss one of them. When the offense gets the ball in that

favorable field position, defense holds and no points. You know, God bless, you did a hell of a job. So they want to make sure the defense gets a nice kiss on that because the offense can score touchdowns. And they didn't. They didn't, they didn't come, they didn't sniff the end zone in those three defensive periods. So the defensive communication turned it up big time. And then offensively

they were. They were doing things right early on and those three scoring, three competitive scoring deals that went on in different stages and situations field position, they had some issues with, you know, targeting the right spot and pass protection and there were some free runners. Uh so their communication fell apart a little bit. And that's that's that's what football is all about. It's eleven guys communicating properly on either side of the ball. If you if there's

a communication lapse, you get issues. Is it as hard for you to believe as it is for me that they'll be playing a game a week from Saturday? It is? It is amazing. I mean, you know, they can't go to camp now just two weeks before that, you know, that first preseason game, and I like, I like, what Zack's doing um, you know, and weather disrupted it for

a little bit. You know, he had the uh you know, I call it, uh you know, like workload uh handling the workload kind of thing like they do in the NBA. Guys will miss games. Well, Zach had that that one day where it was like half speed walkthrough and just getting ready for some contact and then um, you know, rain took away one of his contact periods. And I'm a big believer in you know, these guys work year round now to stay in pretty good shape. You don't

need to kill them, you know in training camp. You want these guys to be ready to play in the regular season. And it's worked for the LA Rams. This is what they've done under Sean McVay out there and Zach, Zach's believing it obviously, and and I think I think it'll pay dividends. I mean, gone or the days where you know, you get your head smashed in for nine weeks and you couldn't drink water and you know you just got beaten to death. Those days are long gone.

And I lived through some of those and they weren't fun at all. You know, you wonder is there something else I can do and make a living. I know there is maybe I don't know how long I'm going to do this, but I like what they're doing. And when they go, I think the players appreciate that he's trying to take care of them that way, and when they go, they're they're doing. Like we talked about the temple, the best way for football conditioning is that because normally

you get a bigger break than that. I mean, you know, you'll you'll go hard and then you'll, you know, depending on how up temple your offense is, there's lulls and breaks. He has got them at a very high clip, very high rate between every snap. That's the best way to get your cardio done in football is doing football football. You have to perform football acts, football functions in very short recovery periods, and that's the best way to get

conditioned for football. And he's conditioning big time for football. You can go and run. You're a distance guy, you know, go out and run. That's you know, that's one way to condition. But then you have to get in football condition where you're you're pushing and pulling and you're you know, you're working all the attachments and ligaments and tenants and all your joints and everything, and then you've got to do it again, you know, in a very short time frame.

So it's a different conditioning for your body and for your cardio vascular And I think I think that they've got a pretty good idea with how they're doing it with this work hard in two days recover, work real hard, two days recover. I like that pattern. The Rams are number four in the NFL last year in fewest starts missed and number one in the NFL two years ago in fewest starts missed by their key players. If Zach Taylor brings anything from Sean McVeigh and the Rams, let's

hope it's a system for keeping guys healthy. Yeah, and look at to the veteran offensive lineman Sullivan and Whitworth well into their thirties, and you know they didn't miss they didn't miss games. So you know, you can play a longer period of time at a higher level by not you know, getting it taken out of you during the offseason and during training camp. As long as you

keep yourself in a good semblance of shape. I mean, if you let yourself get sloppy, you know, in yo Yo, that that's gonna that's a horse of a different color. That's a different story. But if the players understand what the coach is trying to do, and the players, you know, be professionals and take care of their bodies, and they can play a longer time at a higher level. And

that's what that's what the whole concept is. Plus making so much money, it's it's good for the ownership to check their investment and good for the players to do it as long as they can. I mean, both all parties benefit. It makes too much sense. That's why beating the hell out everywhere. Of course, nobody was making that kind of money back in those days. But you know that's why, you know, making less than thirty thousand dollars

a year, saying it's worth all this. Yeah, I always wanted to do it my whole life, But man, how many years can I do this? Guys? Don't have to think like that anymore. You got twelve. I got twelve all together. Yeah, I was lucky. Knocked on the wood. The Bengals next practice is Friday afternoon from three to five at the practice fields adjacent to Paul Brown Stadium. Then on Saturday it's the annual Family Day event at the stadium. The gates open it two and practice begins

at three. There will be kid friendly activities throughout the stadium, prize giveaways, autographs from everybody on the roster. After practice, and then once the players clear the field, you will be allowed onto the playing surface. Everything is free, including parking at the lots next to the stadium. So again, check it out Family Day Saturday at Paul Brown Stadium.

Now time for this week's fun Facts segment as we get to know the longest tenured coach on the current staff as he enters his seventeenth year with the Bengals. Time for some fun facts at Bengal Special Teams coordinator Darren Simmons, a native of Elkhart, Kansas, down in the southwest corner of the state near Oklahoma and Colorado. Describe your hometown, very small, farming community, twenty one hundred people that kind of fluctuates. Twenty one twenty two one hundred people,

right in the very southwest corner. I mean, you can't be any further southwest. The city limits to my hometown is Oklahoma state line. Colorado is about five miles west of us. We're a two A school UM in the state of Kansas. Kansas has one through six A or two A schools. We're on the smaller half, UM, but very very much a farming community in uh An Oil and gas uh you know, crude oil and natural gas productions big down there too. We're doing fine facts with

Darren Simmons. Let's talk about your athletic career. You started out at Dodge City Community College in Kansas, and in addition to punting, you played quarterback. Give me a scouting report on Darren Simmons the quarterback. Well, I went to I went to University Kansas as a punter. So now that it gives you some of my uh background as a quarterback. Now, I mean I I started a couple of years UM at Dodge City as both a quarterback and a punter. Kind of patterned myself after Danny White,

you know with the Cowboys, UM, who did both. UM, So it was kind of a dual threat on fourth down where I dropped back to pond, Well, we're gonna fake it? Are we gonna go for it? Mean? What are we gonna We're gonna punt it? What were're gonna do? Um? But obviously my Mike quarterback days were limited there because I went on as a punter. Soul. That gives you a little scouting report, all right, And as you mentioned, it was on to Kansas to play for the Jayhawks

for your final couple of college seasons. What was it like for a kid from small town Kansas to play for the university up Well, it was actually really weird because really everybody west of Kansas State goes to Ka State, and everybody east of Kansas State or Manhattan goes to KU. And I kind of did the flop and went right over the top of Kansas State and went to Kansas.

And I don't regret that decision one bit. The majority of my graduating class actually went to Kansas State, so it'ld have been a natural thing, but you know, I kind of straight away from the herd went to Kansas. Kansas was just coming off a Lohall Bowl win over BYU, and they were both obviously poor programs had been historically, but they were both on their way up. And I thought Kansas was a little ahead of where Kansas State

was time, and so I chose to go there. And you know, I still go back there and visit a lot it's on our way home down I seventy when we could drive back to Kansas in the summertime. So, you know, Lawrence is a cool town. I could see living there. It's a really cool small town, which it is close enough to Kansas City where you get still the big city things that come with that. So really really enjoyed my time at Kansas and that's where ultimately

met my wife. We're visiting with Special Teams coordinator Darren Simmons. You chose wisely. Kansas was terrific while you were there your senior year. They finished in the top ten in the country and in a big win over Oklahoma, you had a forty five yard run on a fake punt. I have seen the footage on YouTube. What do you

remember about the play? Well, I member, we'd practiced that play for a long time, and you know, being a punter, the you know, if you're going to punt the ball, the one thing that you want to do is when you receive the snap, you want to want to focus on punting it. I remember our head coach at the time, Glenn Mason, said, for the specific play, catch it, then look up to see if they're rushing, if they're rushing,

then punt it. If they're not rushing, then take off and run, and which is there's a that's a lot to do in a short amount of time. But anyway, obviously being from Kent where I'm from, in Kansas at Oklahoma game is a huge game because I actually probably grew up as a as a Sooner fan, and I had a bunch of family at that game. And h it was we were down pretty big throughout that game. There's a couple of plays in that game that kind of helped propel us pass them, and uh, that was

one of them. So, uh, you know, that was obviously a very fun time for them. While you were at Kansas. Roy Williams was the basketball coach Kansas basketball at the time was terrific, as it still is obviously to this day. Did you get to know Roy at all or any of the great basketball players that were there at the time. We did. You know, the football team and the basketball team were actually pretty close at the time, and and uh, you know, I have nothing but great things, great fond

memories of Coach Williams in his time there. He was very very supportive of our program, our football program. You know, we were on the way up at the time, and I think in fact my senior year, we were the one of the few teams in history at the time to have a football team playing a bowl game and finishing the top ten. The basketball team makes the Final four, and in the baseball team goes to the College World Series, which I think at the time is only like eight teams.

So it was a very successful year that year. Um. You know, Coach Williams is a heck of a coach. I think he still has, uh, you know, a lot of ties still still back to Kansas, and Ike has fond memories back of the people and everything that went into that school. So he was very supportive of us. And good good man. We'll do a few more fun facts with Darren Simmons. Let's move on to your coaching career. You had an uncle with NFL ties, correct, Yeah, I did.

Um My dad's brother, Jerry Simmons, was a strength coach, you know, and he came from the same small hometown of bell Cart that I did. He went to Fort Hay State, which is a Division two school out in Kansas, and then he get his start. His first full time strength coaching job was at Rice I think he was a graduate assistant at Clemson and then his first full

time job was at Rice. He went from Rice to Southern cal named from Southern cal to the New England Patriots, and I think Raymond Barry was the head coach then, and uh maybe Don mcpherston for a little bit. And then he went from New England to the Cleveland Browns and he went to Cleveland with Bill Belichick when when he first got there, then he kind of survived that whole move from Cleveland to Baltimore and was there in Baltimore under Ted Marcher Brodo and that's when I got

hired there. But I was fortunate throughout my high school days even my college days, I would always go help me and my younger brother would go help him during two days or in training camp, whether it be out of Southern cal or at New England and at Cleveland. Well, at Cleveland I got to know the special teams coach

there very well. My uncle pushed it. I was letting know that I was a putner, and I got to work with him a lot, the special teams coach by name Mascott O'Brien, and we developed a relationship and and you know it still sticks to this day. What were your initial responsibilities on an NFL staff. Well, I was the assistant special teams coach and assistant strength and conditioning coach, you know, assistant special teams coaches at the time. There was only probably three or four of us in the

league at the time. Now every team has one, virtually, I think me with exception one or two full time assistant special teams coaches. But as a way for me to kind of get in the door, it was a dual role thing where I think it allowed me to help my uncle in the weight room and be his assistant and there and then also be split my time with special teams too. So it was a good way if it was a good opportunity for me to get my foot in the door as a young guy, and

you know, I'm very appreciate of that opportunity. Do you have a favorite moment, favorite game, favorite special teams play, anything in particular that stands out? One specific play I guess that comes to mine was my first year here in two thousand and three and we're playing Kansas City. In Kansas City, I believe was undefeated at the time and maybe like nine and Ozo and Dante Hall, who

was their returner that has had an unbelievable season. I think he'd scored four times, maybe five, and he was trying to break the NFL record, and we almost gave it to him in the first half, but we kind of flipped it. We kind of flipped it on him, and in the second half we played lights out on special teams, stopped him and really took him out of the game, and then Peter Wart scored on a punt return which kind of blew the game open for us and to win. So that was obviously a very very

proud from me. He's a young coach and maybe in my first year as the full time guy, that was a pretty big moment for me. Final question for Darren Simmons. John Harbaugh went from NFL special teams coach to Super Bowl winning NFL head coach. Is head coach which you ultimately aspire to do? I think that's a good question,

and it is something that I aspire to do. You know, I think is the evolution of the way that special teams coaches are looked at has obviously changed, you know, it's I think Frank Gains was one of the first guys that went from being a special teams coach to a head coach and didn't work out for him. In

Kansas City, things did not go well. And but now that John got his opportunity and has done with it what he has, I think certainly over the past several years, you're seeing more and more special teams coaches getting opportunities for interviews, which is a big thing. I like to get rat race too and get my hand in there. You know, I think special teams coaches have a little bit of advange because I get the opportunity to work with the entire team, and I think that's a little

bit what a head coach does. He gets you have to understand the personalities in what makes each player tick. And I think that a special team's coach is the closest thing to what a hit coach does do then, So you know that that is certainly something that I would look forward to someday. This has been fun. You're off the hot seat. Thanks for the time, great, Thank you do And that's going to do it for this

edition of the podcast. If you haven't done so already, don't forget to subscribe on iTunes, Stitch, your Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean and if you have a moment, please give it a rating or leave a comment. Your feedback has been great and those five star ratings help more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde and thank you for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast