Bengals Booth Podcast: Seen The Difference

is retiring as the Bengals head athletic trainer. He'll share some great nuggets about Paul Brown, Tim Crumrye, Joe Burrow, and Moore. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season gets free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and

Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the Masters. I joked with a buddy this week that I think I love the Masters Tournament more than I love my family.

I love the traditions, the Green jacket, the champions dinner, the Part three contest, Pimento cheese, sandwiches, etc. I love the beauty of the chorus with the azaleas and Dogwoods in full bloom. And I love the history and the thrilling moments provided by Jack, Tiger, Phil and so many others. I have attended the Masters once, and if you stick around until the end of this episode, I will share my amusing but somewhat painful experience in story time with Dan.

But now let's get to football. The NFL Draft is three weeks away. NFL Network will provide live coverage of the draft from Las Vegas April twenty eighth through thirtieth, and this week I have the chance to visit with NFL Network draft analyst Charles Davis. Charles, your first mock draft came out this week. You have the Bengals selecting

Tyler Linderbaum, the center out of Iowa. Tell us, why oh look, I think he's the best center in the draft, and I think he has qualities similar to Creed Humphrey last year of Oklahoma, who went in the second round in Kansas City, was plugged right in as their starting center and went to not just the Pro Bowl, what was an All Pro center as a rookie, which was really a phenomenal accomplishment. But I think that Linderbaum is a similar player, same type of qualities to him, same

type of plug in play. Right away, coming from the University of Iowa, where how often is it, Dan that your head coach spends more time with your offensive line than he does any other position, Maybe since what Vince Lombardi, because he was one of the seven blocks of Granted, you just don't get it very often. Maybe in Cincinnati you had that before with Forest Gregg maybe perhaps, but you hear where I'm coming with that. Look, that's where Kirk Ferren spends his time at the University of Iowa.

Like when these coaches scatter, Kirk Farrence is with that offensive line. He's a tremendous offensive line coach in the NFL. He's been a tremendous head coach at Iowa. That's his baby, and this kid, I think has the movement, skills, the strength, everything that you're looking for to be a starter right away. And now, look, I do realize that you've made some moves in the off season. I do realize there's a certain young man who came over by name of Carris

Right that has center in his background. Last year he played his first games at guard for New England and played much of the season as they're starting left guard. If Linderbaumb comes in, Carris goes into competition at a guard spot. So this is more of a the player is too good to pass up than any perceived need on the offensive line. To me, yes, and you're also wanting to increase You remember last year prior to the draft, Dan, Look, you remember it all very well. You're immersed in it, right.

How much was the debate like you probably went to different places and said, oh no, I don't want to hear this debate anymore. Should we take a tackle in Piney's sewel to take care of our young quarterback or do we go get Jamar Chase the wide receiver? Right, Because that was that's all we talked about, and that was debated ad nauseum. And I'm sure you closed the door a few times said okay, I can't do this anymore,

I'm done. They'll figure it out. Well, they figured it out last year because they knew that they believed in Jonah Williams. So because they believed in Jonah william just said Jonah Williams is healthy, Jamar Chase another weapon out Why that shore worked out pretty darned well for them right Well, to me, Tyler Linderbaum is another way of making things better for this young quarterback. Increasing your offensive line. It wasn't a debate last year in Cincinnati. It was

a civil war. You were Team Chase or Teams Seul. I admit to being Teams Seul. But I learned my lesson. What I learned last year is that the value of a transcendent wide receiver is greater than the value of a single offensive lineman, no matter how good the offensive lineman is. And obviously you want great offensive lineman, but a game changing wide receiver has so much value. That was the lesson that I learned from last year. Well,

it's a great lesson. It's a lesson for all of us because it is a legitimate debate, and as you said, in a legitimate war about which way do we go? Because in your team's history taking Anthony Munos a left tackle. Sure worked out pretty darn well. Okay, you talked about transcendent talent. Yeah, I get the wide receiver. But if you all of a sudden you thought you were getting another Anthony Muno's type player and he signed off on that.

I remember for the draft, I went, oh, boy, that's putting some pressure on Duke Topin and the rest of the decision makers. And Anthony Munios goes go get the tackle. Remembers how well he played and what he did for a team that went to a couple of Super Bowls while he was there. But bottom line is, they got it right last year. They nailed it to me, Linda Bob. Again, as you said, I'm taking the player much more so

than absolute need. But again it's not quite the same as I'm taking Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan because I have Clyde Drexler who was a tremendous player. But it's along those lines. Let's not make that mistake again. If I got a chance to get better, I go ahead and get better. NFL Network Draft analyst Charles Davis is our guest. Let's talk about cornerback. The Bengals have Chitube, A Wouge and Mike Hilton signed for multiple seasons, but Eli Apple is coming back on a one year deal.

Depth beyond that threesome is questionable. So if the Bengals were to go cornerback, which is obvious a strong possibility, who do you like among the guys that might still be there at number thirty one? Well? I like kier Elam at the University of Florida. I love his build, I love his toughness. I love his bloodlines with a father and an uncle who played in the NFL as well. He gets it. Hasn't had quite the college career that

you would like due to some injuries. But I think that he's a terrific player and he's one name that I would list and Dan I'm not listing him in any order of preference. I'm just listing names at this stage. I wonder for Roger McCreary from Auburn's going to be available. Really impressing me at the Senior Bowl, I'd been told going into the Senior Bowl people were a little disappointed about the lack of plays he made on the ball.

I didn't see that at the Senior Bowl. He made a lot of players on the football that entire week and showed the aggressiveness and the willingness not just to mix it up in the run game, but to be there in the passing game and make them make sure that receivers were making contested catches. I think that the University of Washington has two corners McDuffie and Kyler Gordon. And it was interesting. I got done my first mock draft. I got a couple of texts from some people that

I really trust in the league. You know, you and I we a lot of things that we do. We bounced off of other people in the league that we count on. I didn't even have to bounce this one off. They came to me and said, hey, man, don't fall asleep on Kyler Gordon because I Trent mcduffy going in the teams. Okay, don't fall asleep on Kyler Gordon the

corner at Washington. He would probably be available around that time frame, Dan that someone would take a good strong look at and say, hey, he might be the guy that we would go for. So I'm just talking about it in the first round. As we get past the first round, those numbers start to really jump out there. More and more because there's plenty of corners, not nearly as many receivers, but there's still a decent amount of depth at the corner of position. But those would be

the guys I would see. I don't know that there's going to be a precipitous drop for the top corners. You know, would and Andrew Ruth from Clemson drop in there? I don't think so. Derek Stingley, you know less, unless something really crazy happens. I don't see any of those guys dropping down, and certainly not my guy, Sauce Gardner. No, no, no, listen. I was working a show the other day and we did a thing like where's the highest he can go?

Where's the lowest he can go? And I think the highest we started with was three to Houston and the lowest was ten to the Jets with their second pick. If the Jets don't use them at four with their first pick. You know, I mocked him to Seattle at nine. I mean, could you imagine if Pete Carroll saw the Sauce the gardener was still standing there at nine with the way he likes to play with those corners, with the length of those guys, look Richard Sherman is going

to go to the Hall of Fame. We know that, right, And he's built similarly to a mod gardener. A mid gardeners way faster than Richard Sherman. What a mod's gotta do is maximize the brain power that Richard brought to the field and the reason he didn't get beat very often. He eliminated most of the stuff you couldn't you could do or couldn't do against him before the ball was snapped, and he was ready for what remaining. That's what a great corner does. That's what Sherman did. That's going to

be the next step step for Sauce Gardner. I'll tell you this about Sauce Gardner. So he's been attending most of the University of Cincinnati's spring practices. He has been coaching up the young guys, and it shows to me the knowledge that he's gained from three years of playing college football. He's out there like a legitimate defensive backs coach sharing his knowledge, which which shows me something. Yeah, and it tells me something about him too, dan One.

Just what you talked about the knowledge that he's gained, and he's not just willing to impart it. But there's one other element, the pride in the University of Cincinnati program, the pride and being a Bearcat, the pride and what they've built up over his timeframe and his career there where the team got progressively better to wear. The last two seasons, they lose a game in the regular season. Okay,

so he put it up there. Now he has part of that grouping, and I think by his coaching up these youngsters, he's also telling them silently, well, what's the old Montreal Canadians thing about, you know, from failing hands where they tossed the torch. Well, his hands aren't failing, but he's passing the torch and he expects them to uphold it to the standards that he and his teammates have established there at Cincinnati. That's part of why he's

coaching these kids up that way. I would believe. NFL Network Draft analyst Charles Davis is our guests, the Bengals like to rotate defensive lineman right now, at least for now, they don't have Larry Ogan job back in the fold after his free agent deal fell through in Chicago. Maybe he winds up back with the Bengals but in any case, they like to rotate those guys up front. Are there any defensive tackles that you would consider at thirty one?

At thirty one a Logan Hall from Houston. Although I am really torn on him Dan for this reason body type. I feel like he's more of an edge guy. He looks a lot like his teammate coming out last year went to New Orleans and Peyton Turner, you know who ended up going into first round and cost of as to few people similar body type. But when he works at the three technique, he's tremendous off the snap, great arm overmove, tries to knife through and make plays and he did a nice job of that at the comm

not not just see me at the Senior Bowl. So yes, can he be that type of a guy. I think he needs a little more bulk, But that's just me. But you got a pretty darn good defensive line coach and Marion Hobby. And I'm not just saying that because we were teammates the University of Tennessee. The world got to see that last year, you know, on display. If you didn't know it before, you had to watch it throughout that as injuries happened as different things, mixing and matching.

That line continued to play better as a year went on, So I would think that he would benefit from that. But he would be a guy because I don't think Jordan Davids from Georgia DeVante Wyatt from Georgia. I don't think they make it down that far, you know, in terms of being big defensive tackles and guys that would go. If you've got to sneak another person into the first round, would it be a Perian Winfrey from from Oklahoma as a playmaking type of a defensive tackle. I just am

skeptical about how many guys would jump up. I think Dan the bidding would starting to stecond round for d tackles and guys that would be available for for the Bengals. Travis Jones from Yukon. Would that name one that would be a great one that you would sneak into the first round because he's a guy that's literally on the rise. People liked him before, people loved him even more after the Senior Bowl, and by the time the combine was over,

now you're having full on man crushes. Okay, the question you're going to ask yourself is with all that power that he packs and his ability to move people. Are you getting pass rush that goes with it? That gives you the value that you want at thirty one? But he is a legitimate name that the Bengals are looking and thinking. Yeah, I would put him in there just like you, just with the kid from Houston I mentioned before, Logan Hall Da would be my top two candidates at

thirty one to possibly get in there. Let's get back to the Bengals offensive line for a second, specifically the moves they made in free agency, because you called Bengals games this year for CBS. You know this team well, Ted Carriss, Alex Kappa, l Collins. How big of an upgrade have the Bengals accomplished on their offensive line? Well? To me, this is how big it is. Dan Collins immediately slots in at right tackle as a starter. Okay, you already have Jonah Williams as your left tackle as

a starter. Kappa slots in probably at right guard immediately as a starter. You remember last year became a mix and match situation. Wasn't going to be Jackson Carman, wasn't going to be a Chema dentagy. Was it going to be both of them in the Super Bowl. It was that's what you ended up with with some guys who you know who went through all that. So he slots in right there, Ted Carres. Immediately you can plug him in at center, or you can plug youm in at

left guard. That's the way I look at depends on how you want to go about doing it. But immediately he's got starter's potential. That's what he played for New England last year. Remember, I think we said at the beginning his left guards played last year in New England, the first time he'd ever played guard in the NFL. He'd been a center here to four. But immediately, great upgrades. Guys who plug him play right out, right out of the gate, and we'll just see how it all plays out.

That's why I came back to linder Bomb again. I don't think getting Ted Carris takes you away from getting Linderbomb. If indeed he's still on the board, you want to go get him because someone could go ahead and pluck him before you get the thirty one. He's that good. You called the Super Bowl last year for the international feed. How surprised were you by the Bengal success? Oh? I think I think anyone who says that they weren't surprised

is a little bit disingenuous. I dan, I think that anyone who would sit here and say, well, you know, preseason I had the Bengals riding it all the way through. We saw talent there, but there were enough question marks to give you pause. That offensive line that we talked about. Remember Jonah Williams hadn't done it for a full season yet. You know, he's a first round draft choice that had been dinged up the whole time. And remember the debate

was still raging. Man, I don't know, Oh, they probably should have getten Penney Sewell instead of the wide receiver because you got a bunch of receivers, so that debate was still raging. Joe Burrow coming back from the knee injury, would he be the Joe Burrow we expected him to be? Turned out? He was and then some even as he was still working his way back through the knee injury. How about on the defensive side, when you just get

to the cornerback position. I don't know anyone who could have said Eli Apple would have given you that type of play that he did all the year long. I just don't know that anyone would have signed off on that. Yeah, I'm in Eli Apple, He's gonna give you exactly new because Trey Waynes, who was supposed to be that guy, was ding most of the year. So Logan Wilson comes out hot, intercepting passes like crazy, gets hurt. What happens now, Well, they found a way to plug and play. Larry Ogan

Joeb does a great job. But how about how great a move was that by Duke Tobin and crew to get bj Hill right before the season begins. As it turned out, it bids a prescient move because once Ogan Joey got hurt, they'll move right in and let them play. So bottom line is, I'm just pointing out different spots stand and I could go into other ones. Did we expect them to be improved? I think yes. I think people like Zach Taylor like what he brought to the table.

But the idea of six to twenty five and one turning into a super Bowl team in the year three, I would have to say that anyone who told me they saw that coming, I'd have to put them on the stand and question them a little bit. I don't believe they're being totally truthful with us. Put your left hand on the Bible, raise your right hand. We're talking to NFL Network draft analyst Charles Davis. As long as

the topic is looking ahead and making predictions. Caesar's Sports Book came out with their season win total odds a few days ago. In the AFC, the favorite is Buffalo eleven and a half wins. The Chiefs, Chargers, and Broncos are next to ten wins. Then you have a bunch of teams, including the Bengals at nine and a half wins. Should four teams have our odds in the AFC than the defending AFC champion as a general rule, The answers no. I mean, as a general rule, no, But here's where

we run into what you know. Let's just go ahead and say it, Dan, Because you and I are friends, we've been we've known each other a long time. I do believe that you and I can put our bona fides up there about knowing the league and knowing how things operate. If you took the name Cincinnati off of this, I think the odds would be higher, I really do.

I just think that that's just part of how people think, how people see, how people go through things and experience it, and the idea that Cincinnati is going to repeat what we saw before, well, remember how shortsighted we're being if we're saying that, because during that Marvin Lewis run, that's what six straight years in the playoffs, five and six out of selling five, five and six seasons, multiple division championships,

not dimension wild cards in getting there. So it can happen, but it becomes one of those things where Cincinnati's one of those franchises that people always want to look at the negative side as opposed to understanding what's happening. We forget that in a sentence. His team's ahead of schedule, absolutely ahead of schedule. But the beauty is you got a quarterback that I think would be ninety five years old and not satisfied with what he's doing. He'd still

be trying to go out and play. And when you have that type of leadership on your team and he's not letting down, I think everyone else will come along with him. So I see Cincinnati a little bit higher than that, but I understand why they have other people ahead of them, because I just think it's a how would we say it? Dan Institutional type of thinking with the league, other franchise will get a little bit extra that Maybe a franchise like Cincinnati a couple more questions

for Charles Davis. The Bengals lost c. J Uzama as a free agent to the New York Jets. They went out and signed Hayden Hurst to replace him. Let the record show that in twenty eighteen you might not even remember this. You had the Bengals selecting hayden Hurst and a mock draft. Boy did well. It all comes back around like I saw that coming has been how many places now because he was in Atlanta, but he started out who took him Baltimore in Atlanta two years apiece?

But this shows you a little bit too about how the league operates um for fans. Many who know this, So I don't ever want to act like I'm talking down to fans. I don't know how you feel about it. Dan, you've been around this league a long time. I've been around in a decent amount of time as well. One thing I've told my colleagues is we in the positions we're in, we have to be more careful than ever about understanding that fans have accessed information way better than

they did before. You know, I think you and I if we were sitting in a room one day with a bunch of Cincinnati Bengals fans and they were peppering us with their thoughts and opinions. We used to have a great trump card. You remember what it was. Well, you know, we get to watch all the All twenty two tape, We got to watch the coaches tape. You guys could never see that. Guess what, they can watch the All twenty two tape and do so. So now

you're in a position where your opinion their opinion. They're like, look, I watched eight games too. I know what I'm talking about. But one thing I want to want to bring up with this is hayden Hurst was in the division. And the other part is they keep all the reports that

they filed on kids when they were drafted. So if you liked the young man but you didn't get him, there's someone in that building that said, you know something, I really liked Tayden Hurst coming out, and they bring that file back, and then of course that file is upgraded because of what he's done since that time. You saw him twice a year within division, you scouted him

coming out of college. There's someone in that organization, maybe multiple people have said, you know something, hey, like Tayden Hurst, here's our opportunity is gone. And they bring the reports, They go over the tape, the whole deal. But that's how it goes with. None of that stuff's ever filed jumped, like, all those files are kept. Just like you finding me with the twenty eighteen d draft. Duke Tobin and his

staff they got all the reports. Someone might Hayden Hurst way back when and they think that he still can be a value now. That's why he's a Bengal. Last thing, and I'll let you go. This is a Bengals podcast, but we obviously have a lot of people listening that are interested in the University of Cincinnati. There's a chance the Bearcats could have eight, maybe even nine players drafted.

The school record is six. What do you think of the rise of the Bearcat program under Luke Fickle and the fact that there's so much legitimate, high end NFL talent now coming out of Cincinnati. Well, I think it's marvelous because to me, this is like the finishing school of a number of people who have come through there and done a really good job. With Cincinnati, but didn't stay the course as long as Luke Fickle has right, helped me out here, Dan, let me go back a little.

Brian Kelly was your head coach. I'll give you the order, Mark D'Antonio, Ryan Kelly, Butch Jones, it didn't work out great at your alma mater, but still he made it to that level. Tommy Tupperville didn't work out so well. That one didn't work out so well. And obviously Luke Fickle, who has been the most successful of them all. Well, let's go back, okay, very quickly. First one was Mark D'Antonio. I remember, tell me if I'm wrong. Mark d'antonio's Bearcats

beat Rutgers after Rutgers won that big game against Louisville. Correct, Rutgers was in the top ten. Mark D'Antonio and Cincinnati beat them at Dunford Stadium, correct, all right? You remember that they had just beatn Louisville and that was a titanic Thursday night game and the whole deal. Right, And the very next time out the Bearcats did it. Mark d'Antona did a nice job when to Michigan State. You saw how that turned out, worked out pretty well, right,

who was after Brian Kelly. I was actually part of a broadcast team. It when during the BCS when Cincinnati went to a BCS Bowl and played against Virginia Tech and Tyrod Taylor and Nat Crew. So you saw the success there, and how did Brian Kelly parlay that? Notre Day worked out any now he's at LSU, right, Okay, then then we ended up with Butch Jones. But she did a very nice job there par laid that too.

Tennessee was that close to getting over the home Ye that close in fact, that twenty fifteen had Oklahoma on the ropes at home in Knoxville. Oklahoma felt rally got over Tom Baker Mayfield goat him home. Tennessee almost got over the Hume. Then sixteen beat Florida looked good, didn't quite get there, and then then the you know, the doors came off. But still all I'm saying is put all those coaches together. They did have their pockets of success.

Fickle has taken it to Remember I said, finishing school. He's been there long enough. He's turning over. The recruiting people are there, the interest is there, the success is there. And then I look back and Zach Taylor recruited your quarterback Desmond Ritter, who's about to get draft into the NFL as well. Now you got the Cincinnati guys together getting it done. Zach Taylor head coach of the Bengals. Luke Fickle still head coach of Cincinnati. And this is

how good a job it's become. Now Luke Fickl's still the head coach of Cincinnati. There have been some pretty darn good openings that have come along, Dan, And you know better than I do how much people have walked in and how much interest Luke may or may not have had. He could have had any of those jobs. Those jobs were available for him right And the best part for me in watching what he's done is it

is a terrific college program. But if you have NFL aspirations, you will get coach to be ready to go into the NFL. But if you don't, if you're not an NFL player, you're gonna get your degree, You're gonna play terrific college football at a high level. You're gonna be respected where you go, and pride in being a Bearcat is at an all time high. I don't know that anyone's done a better job over the last ten fifteen years as a head coach in college football than Luke Fickle.

No one will ever do the same job. Bill Snyder Dick Kansas State can't be done. Okay, that was an absolute waste land. Okay, there's no getting around it. But Luke Fickle over the last fifteen years, Who's done a better job overall? I don't think anyone agree. Always a treat to pick your brain. I appreciate your time. Keep up the great work. We look forward to walking watching your coverage with the NFL Network leading up to and during the weekend of the draft. Well thanks Dan, Always

a pleasure to spend time with you. And one last thing, thank you so much for being so great to me over the years, each and every time. I can never thank you enough. I know we're colleagues in there. There is some some of that formality that goes along with it, but it goes far beyond that. You're top of your profession at what you do, but your top of your profession of being a person too. So thank you so much. I really appreciate you kind words, my friend. I appreciate you.

Thanks so much. Take care, Dan. Charles will join Rich eyes In, Daniel Jeremiah, and many others as part of the NFL Network's live coverage of all three rounds of the draft. The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play fantasy football game. This past season, Ultimate Bengals awarded a weekly winner during the course of the year with tickets, autograph merchandise, and money can't Buy experiences all up for grabs. Find Ultimate Bengals in the

App Store and Google Play. In the summer of nineteen seventy eight, a sophomore at Wilmington College named Paul Sparling started working for the Bengals athletic training staff part time at training camp. Fourteen years later, Paul climbed to the top of the Totem pole as the Bengals head athletic trainer, a job he's held for the last thirty years. This week, Sparling announced he's retiring. He'll be with a team in an advisory role this season to help ease the transition

before officially calling at quits. Imagine what he's seen and heard over the last thirty years and the relationships he's built in the Bengals training room. I talked to Paul about his life in football this week. Paul, I want to turn the clock back. Do you remember how young you were when you first said you'd like to beat the Bengals head trainer. Actually, I was in high school. A friend of mine, Don Brown, who was a sportscaster

and ultimately became a sportscaster in Dayton, asked me. I believe I was probably a senior or junior in high school, and he asked me what I've wanted to be when I grew up. I think he was sitting in the hot tub. He was a baseball player for Stevens High School, where we both went, and I told him my goal was to one day become the head athletic trainer for the Cincinnati Bengals. And every time I see him, he has reminded me of that, as that was quite a

few years ago, and that's really amazing. I mean, it's there only thirty two of these jobs, and to think of it at that age and for it to come true, it's pretty remarkable. It is an incredible story. How I got interested in athletic training was I realized I wanted to be an athlete. But I figured out pretty quickly. I was too small to play football, too short to

play basketball, and I couldn't hit a curveball. I went out for the track team and ran around the track three or four times, and I said, this is stupid. I'm running in an oval. What is the point of this? And the coach asked me if i'd be as manager. So I did that for the rest of the track season, and then they asked me to be the manager for the football team, and then the manager for the basketball team. And one day that coach, teacher coach at mad River

Junior High, asked me if I was interested in athletic training. Now, mind you, this was fifty years ago, and my impression of an athletic trainer back then would have been an old guy, overweight, heavy set, with a white T shirt and khaki pants and probably a bald head towel over his shoulder and a bucket of water in one hand and a black bag in the other hand. And I said, sure, why not? He sent away for a home correspondence course that I took. He spent his own money on it,

and I fell in love with it. I learned about muscle strains and ankle sprains, when to use ice, when to use heat, all those kinds of things, and I realized that that just hit me in the right spot, and from that point on, I decided that was going to be the direction I wanted to take my career. Visiting with Paul Sparling, you attended Wilmington College back when the Bengals held their training camp there. How did you wind up working for the team and what were your

initial responsibilities. Well, one of the reasons I went to Wilmington is because the Bengals were there. I had looked at other schools. I looked at Ohio Estate that was too big for me. Ohio University was too far out Bowling Green. I visited during a blizzard, decided I didn't want to go up there, and I got a letter from Roger Tewkesbury, the head athletic trainer for the Wilmington College, inviting me to come visit his program that he was

starting up there at Wilmington. And I went up and visited and felt like it fit just right and if it was good enough for the Bengals, it'd be good enough for me. I was offered the position of training camp laundry boy by Tom Gray, then the equipment manager. They were looking for somebody to do laundry during the six week time period that they were there, and I jumped at the chance, and I washed socks and jocks

and towels and shimmels. Turned out I was getting done much sooner than the guy that had done it the couple of seasons prior, and so Tom asked me to start helping him out in the equipment room, fixing shoulder pads and helmets. And then Marv Pollin's, then the head athletic trainer, found out that I was an athletic trainer

that could tape ankles. So he said, when you're done with the laundry and you're done in the equipment room, come in here and help me and Bill Bill Connley, the assistant trainer at the time, help us tapes and ankles. And that's where it started. And so I have always been able to tell the assistants and students here that I'll never ask you to do anything I haven't done, because I've done at all. That is quite the from humble beginnings story. What do you remember about Paul Brown?

I tell you what he had, such a such an impressive personality, gravitas if you will. I mean when he spoke in some of the meetings, people definitely listened and very astute, had a wry, funny sense of humor. But it was very clear that he was a gifted man intellectually, clearly knew what he was doing, clearly had a phenomenal reputation, and I was just I was honored just to be

in his presence. Was he intimidating the first time I met him, Yes, But the more I got to know him, the more I realized he was a very kind and gentleman. And just from that point on, actually Mike was more intimidating to me than than Paul. Re visiting with longtime Bengals had athletic trainer Paul Sparling. You've had a great relationship with Mike for more than four decades. When asked about you, the first word that he brings up his trust.

How did you develop that relationship with him? Well, I just call it the way I see it as the athletic trainer. There are times you have to deliver bad news. There's no easy way to deliver bad news. But the best way to deliver bad news is to be upfront and honest about it. That to me, is a critical, critical trait in what I've done over the years, not only to ownership, but also to the players and to the coaches, to the doctors, to everybody. You've just got

to call it the way you see it. You might be wrong, but give your opinion and stand behind it. And I have been blessed to have a great relationship with Mike. It's been built over years, decades, if you will. And I'll never forget the first time I had to give him bad news. I was the head athletic trainer

for the first time in ninety two. It was early in training camp and Eddie Brown came to me with some upper extremity arm and hand numbness and tingling that I pretty quickly figured out was probably coming from his neck. And so we sent him into Cincinnati and had an MRI done and it showed that he was going to need to have season ending surgery. And I had to convey that to Mike, and I did it to him over the phone, and all I'll say is the reception

that I got was less than pleasant. I hung up the phone and I asked myself, why am I doing this. I had come back to be the head athletic trainer when they invited me. I saw him out on the field when practice began, and he came to me and he apologized, And never from that point on did I ever hear that tone of voice again, And so there's a mutual respect and admiration. I think the world of him and couldn't be more pleased to have been able

to spend all my time here. We have seen you in the role of bearer of bad news to the players on Hard Knocks a couple of times. I distinctly remember the Reggie Kelly interview is the very first episode of a Bengals Hard Knock show, and you had to be empathetic but also tell him exactly what he was dealing with. How do you approach that with the players?

I try to have empathy and accept the fact that it's going to be hard to deliver them that news, but I think it's better for them to hear it straight up from the very beginning and not give him false hopes. With Reggie's I knew right away what he had done. I could feel the Achilles was torn, and I didn't see any point in delaying the inevitable and

tell him, well, let's see we'll get an MRI. And I just the way I would want to be informed is the way I tried to inform the players, realizing that at times it's you know, you're crushing a dream, you're hitting where it hurts and it I've dealt with their emotions and what have you, but I've also taken the philosophy that after I give them the bad news and I'll tell them, you've got twenty four hours to powell, and then after that, it's time for us to focus

on forward. So get it out of your system. And that's just kind of the philosophy that I've followed, and I think, at least from what I can tell, most of the guys respected that and recognize that you can only dwell on the negative. It's time to start focusing on forward. And I'll tell you the guy that really demonstrated that to me was Joe Burrow. When I talked to him, gave him the same story. In the bus on the way from the Redskin Stadium or the now

Commander's Stadium to the airport. I told him my philosophy of the twenty four hours and he said, there's no pouting here. I'm working on getting back and that spoke volumes to me and he demonstrated it. Those weren't just empty words. How unique was he last year in coming from his injury. Well, we knew that, given the nature of the position, the likelihood was he would make it back. So much of it is not just physical, it's the mental, the psychological part of it, and I think that's what

he was dealing with early on. He attacked his rehab and he and Nick developed a special relationship and as a team, they worked superbly together. Could not have gone any better. He did not have any setbacks during the course of his rehab, but I think he will probably tell you as time went on during the season that he gained the confidence that he knew he could plant, cut and pivot and didn't have to worry about it.

But it takes time for that to develop, and unfortunately, there's no mental exercise that we as athletic trainers or physical therapists can run them through. They have to go out and do it and experience it with him. We did get him out early during training camp, making sure that he was ready from day one, and we also were cautious with him and didn't let him get too far ahead of himself where he ends up developing soreness and swelling and what have you, to the point where

you have to hold him back because you have to. Instead, we were proactive about that and he played an active role in the pace as well. But you could not have asked for a better patient. I can tell you that we're visiting the long time Bengals head athletic trainer Paul Sparling. I mentioned hard knocks. How difficult was it to have the curtain pulled back on what you do well? I will tell you the first time that they came

in it was awkward. We had to kind of decide what are we going to let him see and what are we not going to let him see. The second go around was easy. We knew what to expect and we felt comfortable and confident in how we were going to let them see certain things. There were a couple of times that they would be filming and I ended up having to tell them that, you know, I needed them to cut that for whatever reason. But they were very, very cooperative. I will tell you it was a little bit,

like I said, awkward at first. I did watch a couple of episodes of previous teams just to kind of get an idea what to expect, and they were good people to work with. They were very respectful, and if we said something was off limits, I quickly realized that they would certainly respect that. Every picture of Tim crum rise devastating injury and Super Bowl twenty three includes a

young Paul Sparling right by his side. Are all of the stories true of Tim refusing to go to the hospital, of turning down painkillers, etc. They're not stories, They're fact. I was there. I remember his wife coming in, Cheryl. I believe she had some athletic training background or education, and she came in and saw the X rays and I'll never forget how she said, they don't look too bad.

Tim could see it as well as anybody, and they looked at tros We knew what he had and the physicians, the doctors wanted to transport him to the hospital just because of the normal management for that significant of an injury, and he wasn't going to have it. I can remember doctor height Sor casting his leg and me holding his foot to try to stabilize it while that he was putting on the casts so that he could at least stay at the stadium for a time and watched the game.

The paramedics did ask him if he wanted pain medication, because most patients would have requested it. He insisted he didn't want pain medication. He preferred an alcoholic beverage. I wasn't around to see if they offered that to him, but that's certainly what he requested. And then we did transport him finally before the game was over. And I

remember the next day when we brought him back. In order to get him up on the plane, we actually put him in the food truck, food catering truck on his journey and pulled him up, brought him in through first class. And I mean, again, just a tough, tough injury, tough tough player. And but those stories are not stories, they are in fact. I was there. I was a witness to it. Has there been a Bengals injury that

you found especially heartbreaking? Well, I think they all are all the I mean Kelvin Moore fractured his neck that ended his career when he was playing up in We were playing up in Pontiac, Michigan at the Silver Dome Scott Brumfield when he had the spinal cord concussion that left and paralyzed for months after the injury ultimately made a full and complete recovery. You know, the litany of serious injuries that Kajana Carter had. I mean, you just you felt for the kid because he wanted to do

so much and so much was expected of him. An injury kept him from being able to reach his full potential. Icky Wood's shortened career as a result of a of an a cl injury. I mean, they all are tough. I don't know that I'd weigh one more than the other. But you know, injuries are not a good thing. And when you have to deliver bad news, you better be able to have a thick skin because not everybody's going

to be thrilled with the information you give them. But you've got to be upfront and honest and take it and move on and go from there. Coaches want their players on the field. Your priority is health and safety. Is that push and pull difficult? It really isn't. I mean, here, it's always been made perfectly clear that the doctors do the doctoring, and that was made very clear from the very get go when Paul Brown first started the club in nineteen sixty eight and it remains the same to

this day. There are some things that we as athletic trainers and physical therapists and the physicians can do to help to help try to facilitate a speedy return, but safety still has to come first and foremost. You've got to make sure not only that the guy can be on the field and play, but play effectively. Number one

and number two be able to protect themselves. So I think our biggest job is to communicate to the coaches and the players what the expectations are when the injury occurs, and then carry that out and understanding that there's a bell curve, there's an average. Some players will defy the odds and they can make us look good. Others are on the other side of that bell curve and they

make us look not so good. But there's an average, and we know what to expect, and our job we want to get the players back on the field as soon as we can too, because there's no benefit to us keeping them on the sideline with us. And I understand the competitive nature of the position and the sport, and there are times we have some healthy discussions about that,

and I get it. That's part of the deal. My job is to take care of the athlete, make sure that we're doing them right, not only for today, but for their life after a ball. And it's been made perfectly clear that that's the way ownership sees it, and I think it's a balancing act. But I think we've done a pretty good job of making that happen. You've been the Bengals point person for following the NFL COVID protocols for the last couple of years. I've seen those emails,

I've been subjected to the testing. How did that affect you and the other people in the department, and how do you think the NFL did well. The fact that the NFL didn't have to cancel any games, I think speaks volumes. How in the world you can do that during a pandemic when the rule of thumb is six feet of distance between people was amazing. I didn't imagine

it could happen, but incredibly it did. The league did give teams the latitude if they wanted to bring on additional people to help manage the COVID protocols to do that, and here we decided to absorb it amongst our staff. So it did require a lot of additional duties that we were not necessar necessarily trained for. We learned on the fly. We learned about contact tracing and COVID testing and all that kind of thing. And it wasn't just me,

it was the entire staff. Our director Security handled the administrative folks. I handled more of the players, coach, coaches, and football staff in terms of enforcing the protocols, but it was an all hands on deck. We all played specific roles, but I will be the first to tell you it was like a second full time job, not only for me but also for our doctors as well, and it was a challenge. I'm glad it's over, at

least for me. Hopefully it's over for everybody. Anyone who thought that the getting the vaccine was going to make the twenty one season easier was mistaken. It was not any easier. In my mind, the testing ultimately became easier, and I think as time went on, the NFL was able to demonstrate that you didn't need to test as frequently as they did. And at the same time, if you're asymptomatic and positive, what does it really mean? So

I think a lot of questions were answered. I would assume that there'll be it'll be a little bit easier the next pandemic that runs around, and hopefully that won't be in my lifetime. What have you enjoyed most about four plus decades in the NFL. Well, I mean it's it's the people that you meet, the relationships that you develop, the things that you learn, and certainly Sunday afternoons at one o'clock, I mean, you can't beat it. It is

an incredible experience. I feel sorry for our interns that worked with us during the twenty season that didn't get to experience what normal games are like. But the thrill of victory is incredible. And I've learned as well when the team doesn't win the game not to take it personal. Don't don't let that change your mood or your attitude. You have to kind of stay even keel. But it's just amazing to me. You get all these players coming

from so many diverse backgrounds. You really begin to appreciate that there's so many different people, different upbringings, different family backgrounds, different medical backgrounds. To see them ultimately meld together as a team with one common focus is just it's an incredible experience to see it. You're still going to be around here at Paul Brown Stadium, got a lot of responsibilities still on your plate, but you have decided to retire as the head athletic trainer. Why and why now? Well?

I had told Mike and Katie late in the year that I felt as though, after thirty years, it was time for me to begin to spend more time with my wife and family and begin to enjoy some of the things in life that we haven't been able to enjoy. The time commitment phenomenal. I never envisioned that I would last this long. Right now, there are three other head athletic trainers that have been in the league for twenty

years or more, which is not very many. And I was just looking for, you know, a way to be into coast, if you will. Most people that when they run a marathon, they don't collapse when they get to the finish line, although some do. I don't want to be the collapse or I want to be the guy that kind of coasts to the finish and that to me was appealing. And I just you know that the last two years with COVID, it made things much more complicated and difficult and stressful. And it's time for me

to lose a little bit of that stress. It's not good for you. And I want to be able to sit back and enjoy, you know, seeing what I've done and reflect back on it. And it's time for a younger generation to come in and start taking taking the reins. So it felt like a good time. I like even numbers, thirty as a nice even number. Marv Pollins, who I succeeded, was here for twenty four years, so I beat him by six, So I think I'm in pretty good stead

with that. But it's been an absolute honor and pleasure, and being able to be affiliated with the Brown family as their head althletic trainer over all these years has just been something I never could have imagined. Yes, I did at one point in time in high school dream of becoming the head aletic trainer for the Bengals. Not only did I achieve it, but I have been able to maintain that for three decades, which is a quite

a feat in and of itself. But it's time. I could feel it as the season went on, Yes, it was exciting with the playoffs and what have you, and I was so thankful to get another shot at it. In fact, when Zach and Joe came, I told them then that I was late in the fourth quarter and not planning on going into overtime, and I'd appreciate it if they do whatever they could to give us one more shot, and they did, Son of a Gun, and they'll have another shot next year, and we'll see where

things end up. I'm just pleased to be able to do it on my terms, at my pace, and be able to contribute in whatever meaningful manner ownership feels like I can. I don't want to be in the way of my successor. I want to be in his corner and do everything I can to support him so that it's as smooth transition as anyone could ever imagine. You've had a remarkable career. Congratulations, I've enjoyed our interactions over the years. Best of luck going forward. Thank you, I

appreciate it. Bengal's new head trainer is Matt Summers, who spent the last four years at the University of Louisville and has previous NFL experience with the Chargers, and now, as promised, it's time for another edition of Storytime with Dan. Here's the concept. I've been broadcasting in some shape or form since the mid nineteen eighties, when I had a thick head of red hair as a Syracuse University student.

While my hair vanished, my experiences grew, and I have had the good fortune to cover Super Bowls, the World Series, the final four Major Bowl Games, shoot. I was once the announcer for the luge competition in Lake Placid. In other words, I have some stories to tell, and since this is Master's weekend, that's the topic for storytime with Dan. Here goes. I have been to the Masters once, not as a reporter, but as a spectator. Back in two thousand and five, which was the fourth of tiger Woods

five Masters wins. He beat Chris de Marco in a playoff. That year, Tiger hit the most famous shot of his career and arguably the most famous shot in Master's history. Remember the chip shot on the par three sixteenth hole where he hit the ball toward the top of a ridge and then watched it slowly trickled downhill, and just before it looked like the ball was going to stop, it dropped in for a miraculous birdie with the Nike logo perfectly framed for TV. For nearly two seconds before

tumbling in. Here's how Verne lun Quiz called it. On CBS. We pick up Verne's call as the ball is slowly rolling toward the cup. Now here it comes. Oh, my goodness, in your life, have you seen anything like that? As a matter of fact, I have. I was there, standing a few feet away with my friends Joe and Paul. We got to the sixteenth hole a few groups before Tiger played it and were in perfect position to see

him make history. Immediately after the tournament, my buddy Paul was obsessed with bragging that we were there, much like I am doing right now. But Paul said, we need proof, for nobody is going to believe it. So he called home after Tiger one and asked his wife if she recorded the final round like he had asked her too, and she said yes. So we were all set, or so we thought. Paul lived in Connecticut, and when he got home from Augusta, he reviewed the tape of Tiger's

shot frame by frame. Unfortunately, you couldn't see us from where we were standing. The camera angles were wrong and the shots were too tight to really point out the three of us. I didn't really care. I figured my friends would believe me, but my pal Paul was devastated. There was no video evidence that we were standing a few feet away from Tiger Woods when he hit the most iconic shot of his career. So several months went by.

I hadn't really thought about it, when all of a sudden one day, I see Paul's number hop up on my phone. Hey Paul, what's up. I can hear him huffing and puffing like he's just run a marathon. Finally, he says, go to the nearest bookstore and pick up the PGA Tour Annual. Then go to page twenty one. Got that PGA Tour Annual, Page twenty one. Click. So I go to a bookstore I find the new PGA

Tour Annual. I opened it up to page twenty one, and sure enough, there was a two page color photograph of Tiger taken a split second after the ball had left his club, and sure enough, a few feet behind him, as clear as a bell, or me and my two buddies standing there with our mouths agape. The third guy in our group, my friend Joe, worked in publishing at the time, so he contacted the photographer and promised to

use him on a future project. If the three of us could get the photograph, he agreed, and we all have it framed proof that we were there. That's a pretty good story, right, we'll believe it or not. That's not even the best part. On the Monday after the Masters, there's a vip outing where a few people get to play the course. It includes a lottery for some lucky

media members, along with some corporate sponsors and other big wigs. Well, my friend Joe was sufficiently connected that when we made that trip in two thousand and five, it included an invitation to play in the vip outing on Monday. Greatest

thing ever, right. Unfortunately, that year, most of the second round was rained out, meaning they had to play thirty six holes on Saturday, and we got a phone call late that day saying that due to the wet weather, the course was taking a beating and that the vip outing was going to be shortened and we did not make the cut. However, we were invited to give his contact at augusta National three dates later that summer where we could come back and they would allow us to

play the course with a member. As far as I was concerned, that was even better. Sure, we would have to spend the money to get back down there, but so what we wouldn't be rushed through in a VIP outing. We would get the full Augusta National experience with a member. So we came up with our three dates. They said the first one was fine and we were all set,

or so I thought. About a week before the big day, my friend Joe, who made the whole thing happen, came down with an inner ear infection so severe that he couldn't travel. Initially, me and the other guy, Paul thought, too bad for him, We're going, But after thinking about it, if not for Joe, we would have never had the opportunity. So he called his contact to Augusta National and explained

the situation, and the guy said, we understand completely. Get healthy and we look forward to seeing you at the club at a future date. That was the summer of two thousand and five. Seventeen years later, we have not been back because his contact passed away. Moral of the story, if the chance to play Augusta National, do not turn it down. And that concludes this week's episode of Storytime with Dan. That's going to do it for this episode

of the Bengals Booth Podcast presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football with awesome Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and Google Play. And if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast.