Bengals Booth Podcast: Moneytalk

is presented by bud Light Seltzer. Refresh the game, and here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean. It's the greatest thing since ted Lasso. My wife and I started to watch the comedy series ted Lasso on Apple TV about a week ago, and it quickly became an all out binge. We breeze through all ten episodes in record time and can't wait for

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a show that's both funny and uplifting. If you don't have Apple TV, I think it's about five bucks a month, so you can always cancel after watching Ted Lasso if you want to. Plus, you can decide who has the better mustache, ted Lasso or Giovanni Bernard. Now let's get

to football. Before getting to this week's conversation with lap Ann Butch, there was huge news in the NFL on Friday that has a direct impact on the Bengals, as the San Francisco forty nine ers made a trade with Miami to acquire the number three pick in the NFL Draft. In addition to giving Miami the twelfth pick in this year's draft, San Francisco coughed up two future first round selections and a third rounder. Let's face it, you only give up that kind of draft capital if you're going

to move up to select a quarterback. So what does that mean for Cincinnati. Jacksonville is going to take quarterback Trevor Lawrence number one overall. The Jets appear likely to take quarterback Zach Wilson number two overall, meaning the forty Niners would take Justin Fields, Trey Lance, or Mac Jones to make it three quarterbacks in a row. Atlanta currently

has the fourth pick. No matter what the Falcons do, Oregon offensive lineman a Sewel or LSU wide receiver Jamar Chase would still be on the board at number five. Maybe both of them. Then again, perhaps a team needing a quarterback would offer the Bengals a king's ransom for the fifth pick. In any case, knowing that at least three of the four teams picking ahead of them in this year's draft are expected to take quarterbacks is a

great development for Cincinnati. We'll get to the draft in my chat with Lappin Butch, but we start with free agency Keillan. Since last week's podcast, the Bengals have added two more free agents. They have signed cornerback Eli Apple to a one year deal, the tenth pickback in the two sixteen draft out of Ohio State. He hasn't lived up to that draft status yet, but he doesn't turn twenty six until August. They have reportedly signed safety Ricardo Allen,

who is twenty nine. He's spent all six of his NFL seasons in Atlanta. A four time captain, he started on a Super Bowl team. Let's get your reactions to those two editions, Eli Apple and Ricardo Allen. Lap. You're up first, Well, I think both of them are are good signings for depth. You know, you have to You obviously got your starters, but you have to have depth, particularly at the cornerback position. We saw that last year. There were some injuries. The Bengals dealt with that at

that position as well. Trey Waynees never took a snap, and all I hope is that we never seen number thirty eight Lashawn Simon again. Man, every time that kid took the field, the ball was a magnet. It was going right there. I mean, every coach just zeroed in on him. So I hope the exit meeting with he and Zach Taylor was Hey, Lashawn, thanks for everything, but

we're not bringing your back. You know. I mean I think that you know, Eli Apple would be a huge upgrade from what they had on the football field, you know, at the conclusion of the season for Sharre in terms of depth, So and Ricardo Allen, smallish type guy, you know, not a not a very big guy, but they say one of those kind of guys that absolutely loves football. Football is important to him. Football is the biggest thing

in his in his life, you know. And I don't think you can have enough of those kind of guys. And you know the other free agents that they sign, like Hendrickson. When you hear that guy, football is super important to the guy. And so I think that Ricardo Allen, Eli Apple, they'll be on that text chain of the secondary with von Bell, Jesse Bates, all those guys that are going to be getting ahead of the game. You know in my mind that they possibly can because they're

coming from different systems. So there's only so many coverages in so many ways you can play the coverage, but there's a lot of different nomenclature. So the thing that they have to get used to is the language. So if Jesse Bates and Von Bell can get them up to speed more quickly, the Killer Bees can get the language out to all those guys. Whatever you call this, it's now called that and they can you know, get

get a jump starting those kind of things. I think I think that would help the back end to measurably. How about you. But you know, I mean I'm with lap I like him both. The you know, the Eli Apple signing kind of conjures up cornerbacks past uh pac Man, Jones, Terrence Newman, guys who had they were on stops before where things had soured on them and they revived their careers. You know, maybe and Apples a lot younger than that, but you know, he's had a you know, he's struggled.

But I think, you know, great, great chance for him here to turn things around. I don't think Darius Phillips should get all uh should get too upset. I think he's a guy that you know, I think they're probably looking at him this before, you know, they aren't looking for Apple, I think, to come in and take over for Phillips. I think they you know, maybe see some competition there. I think Phillips is clearly the guy, in my mind, would be the first guy off the bench.

You're playing behind the other three and Uh Alan I think is uh, you know there's a guy that's you can't you can't miss there, uh, six year veterans respected, you know, like Black said, small guy but feisty, you know, between him and Hilton, I guess they're they're not very tall, but they should bring a lot of fire, you know. And I guess the Alan signing it may preclude to

bring it back Sean Williams. It lose a lot of experience with Sean, you know, on teams and everything, so you know, hopefully Alan Alan can help fill that too. You do get younger if it's Ricardo Allen in for Sean Williams, since Allen is still in his twenties. You know, my thought on these two signings is free agency is not just a matter of trying to add really good players.

You know, that's clearly something you're trying to do, but it's also trying to replace bad players with competent players. And his lap mentioned Lashawn Sims really struggled last year. He started ten games, so he played a lot. His Pro Football focus numbers were in the forties. You can't have that. You've got to have your bottom line guys closer to the sixties. And that's what you know, an Eli Apple can give you as a depth piece or

Ricardo Allen can give you as a depth piece. And I'm glad you mentioned Darius Phillips Butch because he has, you know, tweeted some cryptic things indicating he's not happy about all of these additions they've made to the secondary. And in a sense I get it. Is Pro Football Focus rating last year was actually better than Will Jackson's. He was twenty second of the guys that had enough snaps. Will Jackson was twenty sixth. But like you said, these

guys are going to play. Darius Phillips, assuming he's healthy, is going to get a ton of snaps. Cornerbacks are little guys tackling big guys and guys that are sprinting up and down the field every play, so they always get hurt. It's impossible for a corner to be out there one hundred percent of the time. You need depth, and they have definitely upgraded their depth. Well, I think you mentioned, you know, Will Jackson and Darius Phillips in a comparison there, and I think the biggest thing with

both of those guys is inconsistency. You know, they both they both will have lapses, you know, and Will's making a fortune now and Darius Phillips is a lot more manageable. And but you mentioned special teams, you know, and Darius Phillips obviously has a big role there. But that's where I think the Bengals got hit the most in this free agency period is special teams. You know, they're able to resign Clark, Harris, Kevin Huber, but glex Ericson goes

to Houston, Sethan Carter goes to Miami. A couple of guys that big time for Darren Simmons. What's the common denominator there? The new England Patriot factor, head coach of the Dolphins, Patriot general manager of Houston, now Patriot organization. You know, the way they do their special teams under Bill Belichick, there's a lot of similarity. There's a common denominator. The special team's coach was the mentor at one time for Darren Simmons, or they run the same type of system,

all that sort of thing. That's where I think they get hurt a little bit. You know, Randy Bullock moves on. Obviously he had his problems in the clutch, but you know, he wasn't he wasn't terrible, but but boy, the kicks that he missed were big. I mean, you just can't you can't have it. I thought he was a real pro the way he handled it after the fact that

some of those kicks you just can't miss. But so I'm wondering, I'm wondering how many of these guys that they signed will be able to step up and take some of these roles and special teams or guys that they've got on the foot on the football team currently will fill some of these roles that you know, Sethan Carter, Alex Erickson, guys like that field. And again, there's still the draft, there's still free agency after June first and

all that. But I thought that the team, the teams around the league, particularly with the new England Patriot connection, really really respect what Darren Simmons does and went and got some of his players because they're gonna fit be able to fit their scheme very usually. I think the draft, I mean, you know, they got to be combing that for a returner because there's nobody behind Phillips apparently general we know Phillips's history is uh, he'll put the ball

on the ground. And plus you know you mentioned a two horty if Phillips is healthy. That's a big thing. I mean, I think you know, these guys like Darius, but I mean it's you know, he's been, uh you gotta go ease you on him during the week. He's got the neat thing, and uh so you kind of got to manage him a little bit physically, you know, and that's why you had to go get like an

apple or somebody. You know. Believe me, if they had thought Sean Sinons was going to start ten games when they signed him, they probably would have would have been guys leaping off the towers here at the stadium. But that's you know, that's how that's how low they got. Quickly after, after Wayne's got hurt, Phillips was whipping around. Will Jackson had had a concussion. I mean, you know, you know some guys had COVID, so you know, suddenly Jalen Davis was playing his first snaps of his life.

You know, so you know, they really had to go back. They had to, they had to beat that up. And so you know the apple the apple thing with Phillips is uh I think that and then he get Tony Brown is maybe the sixth guy, which is probably about you know, they probably feel pretty comfortable going in with that. I think that Brandon Wilson signing is huge for the reasons we're talking about too. You know, you can't afford to lose Brandon Wilson, you know, one of the great

returners in the league. Uh, you know, and he was out there all of Darren Simmons's pieces, you know, his battery of Snapper Holder, you know Hunter, all those guys were out there as well as his return guys, and he lost some of them, He lost some of his key pieces. But keeping Brandon Wilson was a big deal. I think. Yeah, the thing with Darren, this is how good Darren is he. You know, they avoided him losing his second best player for the second year in a

row because Spederal and went to Miami last year. They lose, They lose Spederal and he comes back and they finished ninth according to the Football Outsiders. They finished finished ninth in the special teams ranking. Atley lost his best player. And that's why Darren is so good. He can I had a feeling if we were the you know, if we were the Gunners, He's still he still finished the

middle of the pack. Ain't much hit him. Pulling those guns if we're gunners, but you know, you look at it, Federalum and Stephen Carter back to back years, go to Miami Special team stall Wars. Go to the head coach who's new England background tells you all you need to know about what he thinks of Darren Simmons as a special team's coach. If we're the gunners, Huber better punted out of bounds every single time. All right, let's move on and look at this free agent group as a whole.

Of the seven guys that they've signed so far, Trey Hendrickson, chit obey A Woge, Mike Hilton, Larry, Ogan, job Riley reef Eli Apple, Ricardo Allen. Which of those guys, as you're a favorite signing thus far, I go, it's a tight contest between Larry. Oh, I'm not going to take a shot of that name, Ogan, Joe not that tough Ojan Joby because he just because but I know how to spell it because I wrote it so many times

when he played, because he gave so many plays. But and Hilton, I think Hilton is a really nice, uh really nice add to the to the mix, just as a just from his mentality. You know, I like Mike Tomlin players. I've kind of gone up and I've had a love hate relationship with Tomlin watching him coach. I really think the last couple of years he's really uh he's a help of coach, you know. So you're coming out of that program, I think I think that will

help him putting a guy like Hilton in there. So I Clario with a slight edge over Hilton, you know. I like the combination. I think that they were able to handle. They're they're in the running for Galaday big time. You know, a lot of these free agents are signing one year deals and it has to be a good

one year deal for both parties. So the only way it's a good one year deal for the team that's signing is they're gonna they can't do anything with a salary cap or you can't pro rate it or anything else, so you and try to incentivize it. And the Bengals are right and the run with the guy Gallady Galla, they wanted to sign with the Bengals my understanding, and the Giants made a longer term commitment to them, but with the money that they didn't give Galladay, they got

Ogan Joe be In Reef. I'll take that. I'll take that. In my mind, the offensive defensive line needed to be addressed, and by not going giving that money to Galladay, they read big. Two words that the Bengals I think did so well in free agency two p words patience and pivot. They were like low post players. They were pivoting so much, and they showed tremendous amount of patients, you know, to boot and they didn't get, you know, all the smarts when oh man, this didn't work out, what are we

gonna what are we gonna do? I mean here in the U in the timeframe of March madness, they were like a low post player. They were pivoting so much, you know, And so they moved and they and they signed Ogan Job and they signed Reef and you know, needed to have somebody at that tackle position. I would

have loved to them have signed Zeidler. I know they were in the hunt, but Baltimore offered more than they were they were, you know, going to offer, and uh, you know, I think I think Zieler probably would have been okay coming back here, but Baltimore is a great fifth for him. And that's the that's the signing. In my mind, that cut away. But you know, if you get Reef addressed the tackle position, he could always kick in the guard. Ziler ain't going to kick out the tackle.

Zider is not going to give you the position versatility that Reef gives you. So you know the fact that uh, I like that, you know, addressing defensive lineman Ogan Joebian Reef, but you know Hendrickson as well, I mean edge rusher. My my thing was Paul Brown always built a team from the inside out. As creative a thinker as he was, and with all of his offensive formations and schemes and everything he knew, it started at the line of scrimmage.

He his first pick ever with the Cincinnati Bengals, Bob Johnson center, right in the middle of the offensive line. Built from the inside out. That was his whole mindset. So I have no problem with them addressed in lineman, you know, defensive an offensive lineman. They finally got that offensive lineman that took someone the pressure off in Riley Reef. Butch, I'm going to agree with your pick. From my favorite free agent signing thus far, it's Mike Hilton's my guy.

For a couple of reasons one, and I like the fact that they got him for four years at a pretty reasonable price. It's going to get six million dollars a year, which is the most of any of the slot corner free agents this year, so it's not like he was super cheap. But still it's six million a year, it's not ten plus. I think slot corner is a hugely important position that you know, maybe is underrated in

terms of its importance. Those guys are on the field now probably seventy five percent of the time, and I think he is one of the very best in the NFL. He's a playmaker. What does this defense lacked in recent year as a playmaker. Somebody that can come up with an interception. He's got seven. Somebody that can say at the quarterback from time to time. He's got nine and a half. Somebody that can force fumbles. He's got a

few of those. I just really think that he adds that element to this defense with the added bonus of your stealing him from a division rival, which was also the case with Ogan Job and I love anytime you can do that. I think that's a good thing. Now, that's a good call. I mean pressure, pressure, pressure, They just haven't had it. I think the last three years they've been the lowest in the leave in sacks. And you get a guy in ojan Obie who's a hag killed that again, sorry, but in Larry, you got a

guy in Larry. You got a guy when he was playing kind of a free technique in Cleveland, and laugh can speak it is probably better than I can. But I think in eighteen and nineteen he was he was playing nose, but he told me that he was kind of he had a little bit more. It wasn't a true nose. They played him at a two nose in twenty and he didn't didn't play on third down. So now he's going to be a pure he's gonna be at his actual position, a pure three technique, you know.

And if you can get six, you know, if he could get six seven sacks out of a guy like that, that's uh, you know, that's uh, that's huge. And I and I, uh, it's interesting. Lat brought up Henderson and you know this is why you know, Pro Football Focus is great, love Pro Football Focus, but clearly the Bengals scouts have got it completely different than PFF. They've got you know, Henderson Mark really below Karl Lawson and why

they have high regards the Lawson. I think they feel like and Lap mentioned this on the previous on the podcast last week, I think Bablieve Henderson is a better all around player. He's bigger, and he's bigger against the run. But it's amazing how you have these two things. You know, our Pro Football Focus just kills the deal. But that's the guy to Bengals really when you match it up, they would you know, Lawson grated so much better in PFF, but I think the Bengals feel like they get the

better all around player from the football instinct standpoint. You know, Carl Lawson is a great athlete, but from football instincts, just okay, that guy's a ball player. That guy sees things, that guy's there even before it happened, and you know kind of thing. He's just a football player. I think Henderson's more of a quote football player in terms of seeing, seeing the game, understanding the game and and all that sort of thing. Lawson has some great physical tools, There's

no question about it. He's you know, he's this explosive, uh you know, his first step quickness, his studdenness, all that stuff. But I think they are getting a more complete football player, and I do agree with you guys. Ogan Joby was like the ast knows, you know, they put him in a gap and they let him penetrate some and to me, hilt in the same way when

you can invert the line of scrimmage. As a former alignman, guys that used to like worry me to death were guys that would you know, line up in gaps or be able to jump across your face with quickness and get penetration because now all of a sudden you can't attack with as much you know, uh, force and authority, because man, you're warning, where's this guy going? What's he doing? Those guys, those quick guys, they're tough to deal with, and they can invert the line of scrimmage on you

the wrong way. So, Ogan Joby, you know, when you have a guy from a slot corner who can invert the line of scrimmage on you, you know, on running backs, on you know, matchups that favored him potentially as a pass rusher, and he's inverting the line of scrimmage and pressure in the quarterback. Not only is Sacks has tackle philosop, he's got a number of those, you know, in the running game. I mean he's he's made He's made a lot of negative plays, which are positive plays for the defense,

negative plays to the offense. He's been responsible for a lot of those. And if they can get players that fit that attack mode, you know, and attack more. In my mind, football is punch, counter punch. Who's punching, who's doing the counter punching, you know, And I think defensively we've had we've had the CounterPunch too much. Maybe we

can start punching a little bit more. And it's like you said on Hendrickson, and I've used this barge a quote and I have credited you thirteen and a half sacks. It's thirteen and a half secs. He got him, Yeah, no matter. I mean he was surrounded by great people, and he was playing with the lead with Drew Brees a quarterback. I mean there are a lot of factors there. I'm in a situation, you know, all he has to

do any enough to worry about defending the run. Just rushed the passer in a lot of these down and distance situations. But the fact is he still generated thirteen and a half sacks. He still was the guy that got it done. All right? Next question, and Lap, you may have already answered this one with your mention of Kevin Zeitler, But is there a deal that another team gave a free agent that you wish that Bengals had done?

What you go first? On this one. I was kind of with Lap about Zeitler, but we made after the draft. We may forget about that Zeitler depending on where the offensive line settles. But yeah, that was one. But I also when they when the Raiders signed John But why did receive John Brown for three point seven five? No for a year? You know, guy that can stretch the field probably exactly what with Ross gone on an AJN, probably exactly what they needed. Would have liked to have

seen that, but who knows. There's some other guys out there too that I think they're looking at. But you know, that would have been would have been nice. Yeah, I'm going to stay with the Zeiler deal because I agree even if I signed Zeidler, I still would address Garden tackling the draft. I hope they still do still a draft address addressed tackling Garden the draft. But I think Zeiler would have come back here. I think you would have done a good job here And to your point earlier, Dan,

he went to a division rival. So you know, the last place you'd like to see a guy that maybe you thought could help you go is to go help somebody that's you know, a playoff team in your division. And he fits Baltimore scheme perfectly because in my mind, he's a better run blocker than a pass protector. He's not terrible in pass protection. He only gave up you know, two sacks last year. You know, he six hundred and thirty snaps, gave up two sacks twenty eight pressures. That's

pretty damn good. But with that gap running game and with Lamar Jackson, you know, run the ball as well as the running backs. They have that big old brute man with the gap and pulling. He's a good puller. He fits their scheme perfectly. So when he ended up going to Baltimore's, like god damn, not only didn't we get him, he went somewhere that is a perfect marriage for both parties. You know, but the Ravens paid him more, you know, I mean money talks, no matter why what

the situation. Do we know for a fact that the Bengals weren't close on that dollar figure. I mean, where the Bengals willing to pay roughly as much seven million a year, and and Kevin Zeitler said, you know what, this is the offense and the team I want to play with. I don't know the answer to that question. I heard. I heard that the Ravens definitely offered more money. I don't think it was crazy more, but it was

more money. So you say more money plus like you said, and we mentioned earlier, there's scheme the teams in the playoffs. I mean, you know, why why would you not go there if they offer If they offer you, I don't I don't care how much more. If it's if it's a little a little bit more money and what they have on the table. I could see where he'd make

that decision. I was gonna ask Lapis and I was gonna ask lapp a question when it came when when it comes to pass protection, where would you put Zeitler compared to Spain quintin Spain with the with the Bengals, have you reportedly resigned Spain is a much bigger body guy, you know, much thicker, bigger, let's get good feet. I think that gives him, you know, a little bit of an edge in protection. Um, I don't. I don't see

Zeiler having an advantage. I see Zier having an advantage, you know, in movement went as a point guard and that sort of thing, and and and angle blocking and you know things that That's why I say, man, uh, he's basically on the lineup. They struggled to replace Marshall Yonda at right guard. When Yonda retired. They think, now they've got a guy. They're not saying I'm not saying I don't think they're saying that it's going to be a future Hall of Famer like Marshall Yonda, but he's

a damn good player. Kevin zeit was a solid player well. With Roddie Stanley back and Kevin Zeitler added and Orlando Brown moving back to the right side, that is a mighty offensive line again, so look out for the Ravens. So, speaking of the Bengals offensive line, They've signed Riley Reef, they are bringing back Clinton Spain. Are they done spending on the offensive line or is there still maybe a guard out there that they would try to get on

a cheapo one year deal? Lap What do you think I'm not sure that if there's anybody that they'd they probably purchased at this point in time, I think they're almost they're probably they probably almost exhausted their cap. You know, to be able to go out and give a veteran player of any substance would probably require more than they've got.

You know. That's why people are, oh, man, this Giovanni Bernard potential trade rumor boll that's a four million dollar cap saving that would add more money to the kitty to continue some of their free agency signings and their roster purge. I mean, you look at it right now, going into the draft, before the draft, and then June one, there's gonna be a bunch of other players cut. There's still gonna be a bunch of cuts that are gonna happen.

You watch these one year deals, They're gonna be happening left and right. Maybe then they can maybe go out and get a guy for one year, you know, a one year proven deal. So many guys are saying, terrible year to be a free agent. I'll just do a one year and bet on meat deal. They've only got five starters the last game of the season on the depth chart for January fourth to twenty twenty one, there are five starters left, six new players, and defensively there

are four starters left, seven new players. And that's before the draft and then maybe other potential free agency after the June first, uh, you know date when other other cuts. A lot of blood is gonna flow on that, on that data around in the league as well. It's not it's not an impossibility, but I think it's it's probably

a little probable. Trade turner, Larry Warford, Collecchi, Assembly, any anybody interest you butch all those guys, But I don't know are they you know, they've all they've all had pretty good careers. I'm not sure where they are where

they are now. And I think Lap touched on this last week too, is they looked at these people that were out there and maybe for two and a half guys maybe, but for two and a half guys, one of them being funny, they thought the people on the market were, you know, were significantly better than what they've got a guard. You know, I'm just not sure that they feel like there's a huge now. I I you know,

when things, you know, I think things change. When I think they have their eyes on guys who are still under contract, but who they are expected to get whacked that not only a guard but also at wide receiver. I don't think they've signed their last guy, and I think they'll probably sign the receiver. And I agree, I think I think that they're the guys you mentioned Dan.

Obviously they're all attractive, but man, they're wanting. They're wanting more money than the banks are able to offer right now. As free agency extends goes on, prices are going to come down. You know who's going to come down the furthest who's going to come down the most. So, you know,

I think they're still going to grind. I don't think they're packing up shop, but I don't I don't think they find they see a fit yet at this point in time where they would they would pull the trigger and they might, you know, say let's see what we

get in the draft, Let's see what happens. And you know that that now you're go into the draft with a much different look and idea than before free agency with all these signings that you've had, you know, with your defensive depth and some starters, and you know you've address one position offensively, your right tackle position potential, but depending on what you get in the draft, you might be able to kick him inside the guard Riley Reef.

Who knows. So you go into each phase that with a different mindset after you've done operating in the particular phase that you're in. Ryan Kerrigan visited on Thursday without a deal getting done. Then Tom Pallisero reported that the Bengals were fielding calls on Giovanni Bernard possibility of trading him, as Lamp mentioned a free up more than four million against the cap. Where those two things related, butch the fact that they weren't able to get something done with

Ryan Carrigan and maybe the need to create some more space. No, I think they're I think that's uh, I think that's isolated. I think they're a good thirty million. I think they've spent a good thirty million on the cap for this year with those five six seven new players. So they maybe they're trying to, uh, you know, I think they're trying to get some breathing room just for those you know and plus two, uh you know, you don't know.

They may end up their rookie pool might get a little bit bigger if they do actually say they do end up trading that fifth pick, you know, you end up with two. You know, you end up with another high second round pick. Who knows. So you know they've done They've done a lot of good They've done a lot of good work, and they've put up a number that I'm not sure they thought they were going to hit because I think they, you know, like Lap said,

they did a hell of a job. I think pivoting early on when they saw that the prices were not going to be reduced because of the reduced cap, they were still there were still a pre pandemic numbers, and so you know, that's that's uh, you know, there's I think they're looking to find ways to do some different things and still trying to even probably fit the guys

they already got. Lap one about the Ryan Carrigan possibility, thirty two years old, four time pro bowler, the Redskins all time leader in sacks, obviously, and being nice to have somebody else that has a track record for getting after the quarterback. But how much gas is left in that tank? That's the question. Gas in the tank, tread on the tire, you know, taking a lot of hits, a lot of wear and tear on the body. You know, I'm assuming on these visits guys take physicals. That's the

thing with these draft prospects. You're gonna be able to have you doctors put their hands on the particularly guys that had incurred an injury. Some of these veteran free agents, you know, deals might be contingent on how they are physical. I mean, the longer a guy plays, the more potential injuries over the years start to mount up and become

issues with guys and affect their level of play. I think too, that it might be just a situation where he might still be looking for more money than they're willing to offer, but they wanted to bring him in, talk to him, check him out, see what he's about, just because it hasn't happened yet, hasn't happened anywhere else yet either. He still may be out there. So I think, you know, they've exhibited that other P word might be talked,

you know, pivoting. We've said a couple of times that patience, and it's like patience, Daniel Son, you know, don't don't

get Wang chung. At this point in time, there's going to be there's going to be other possibilities, and if it's not this guy, it might be a guy in the draft that might be revisited if they don't get an edge rush guy, and there are some there's some depth at edge rush, there's some depth in the offensive line, and there's depth at receiver, and interestingly enough, there's still a lot of receivers out there that aren't signed. Who

got the money. Trent Williams got a record amount at left tackle, Tuney got almost record amounted guard build from the inside out like the legendary Paul Brown said, the team's only had one thing to worry about and could spend a ton of cap dollars on it. That's all San Francisco did. That's basically all Kansas City did. The

Bengals weren't in that position. The Bengals had multiple you know, they'd rather have a bunch of spread the money out over a bunch of people that might be able to help the roster, rather than throwing it all on one and you're all or nothing on a guy with Trent Williams who's in his thirties, you know, Tuney, who's been around a little bit. I mean that's that can be sometimes a dangerous playing free agency. It can work out as well, but the Bengals decided, you know, to basically

spread the money amongst multiple and I'm all for doubling down. Man, You throw all your money in one pot and free agency, man, you can you can crap out in the old blackjack table quickly. Yeah. I think in this draft, I think there's a shot they come out of the two edge rushers yep, and you know, and a guard and attacker and a wide receiver. They gotta go get a speed receiver somewhere. Gotta go get one. Let's move on to a couple of former Bengals who have signed elsewhere. Andy Dalton,

Chicago Bears, a J Green, Arizona Cardinals. How are they going to do in their new destinations? Lap You can give a battle lead off on this one. I feel bad for Andy Dalton. No matter who the quarterback that the Bears signed, he was going to get abused because Russell Wilson is not a Chicago Bear. The whole city was infatuated with Russell Wilson's coming to Chicago. They're all all pumped up. And then and Andy Dalton's the guy

or whoever was going to be the guy is the guy. Um, you know, I think I think Andy Dalton still can do the things that he's done mentally over his career, and that is be a problem solver. Identify defenses quickly, know where to go at the football, how to get it there. You know, Andy was as good as I've seen coming into the league. Joe Burrows right in that

category as well. Joe Burrows probably you know, maybe doctor at Andy Andy Daltons the grad school plus you know, maybe master's plus thirty and just right below that doctor level. I mean, so those kind of things coaches like Bill Laser is up there. Bill Laser knows he can do that kind of thing as a as a former lineman. His lineman is gonna love how he gets the ball out of his hand quickly. It's going to make their

protection life so much easier. I mean, he's gonna do a lot of things that that the Chicago Bears I think are gonna like the thing that he has to make sure that he doesn't do. Though, don't turn it over because the Bears have a great defense, So don't put the offense. Make the opposite. Always bear in mind the opposing offense. Make them go to the length the

field against that Bears defense don't give short fields. You know that the Bears defense can't be as dominant as they might be able to be when the offense is in more of a predicament. So it's all about not turning the football over and in Andy Dalton knows that. I think as well as anybody and as far as AJ Green is concerned, it's going to be very interesting. Um, you know, will Larry Fitzgerald come back if he doesn't AJ Green? Probably. It's like the third guy. AJ Green

last year was the third guy here in Cincinnati. So as the third guy, you're facing you know, the third corner and when you're playing man, if you playing zone, it's a different ball game. But if you're matching up in man coverage, you know, I was expected to a light up those third corners. We talked about it during

the year. Then when you know, when aj season started unfolded progress at this point in time, the way Talboyd and T Higgins are planning AJ Green, he's getting their third cover guy, the third best guy, and he wasn't tearing that guy up. You know, it wasn't winning at the level that that I thought that I might see um, but you know, a new place, new lease on life. A quarterback that is extremely talented, can create plays and extend plays, can throw the football. It's going to be

interest interesting to see, you know. If Aj Green Um just you know, gets a burst of energy. I think I think that the the the biggest surprise to me was AJ's body language through the whole thing. He almost played like he was disinterested. You know, he had that look of a disinterest body language wise, and when you see his face in the sideline, you know, it just it just didn't seem like it was working, like it was a fit. And he talked about how, you know,

it was hard for him. They were asking him to do different things and it wasn't coming easy to him. He wasn't learning things, you know, as well as or as quickly as he says he would have liked to. So he has to learn a whole new offense, you know, and that's not aj strong suit necessarily. So how long will it take Aja to digest, comprehend and uh and be able to go out there and uh and perform you know, if they if they decided he was he was. He didn't like the fact that he was just like

put in one spot. Well, in order to learn a new offense. They may start him out just playing in one spot until he can master that, and then they'll try to expand, you know, um, some of the other parts of what he might be able to contribute. But it's going to be interesting to see how the whole thing unfolds. I haven't seen a guy get I mean, you know, like I mean in Chicago. I haven't seen a guy in Chicago get worse pressed maybe since uh

Abraham Lincoln in the first debate against Steve Douglas. I mean that was, Yeah, that was that was a tough welcome. Uh, you know, but like Laps said, you know, he's going to a good defense. Don't forget Andy Dalton when Mike Zimo was a defensive coordinator. Uh, and Andy Dalton didn't lose a lot of games, you know, I mean, he wanted enough games to go to five playoffs and uh, you know, Andy get ripped so badly here. Yeah, there was some you know, some call for it, but my god,

I mean people forget that. Going into the twenty nineteen season, I think he had more fourth quarter comebacks in that stretch you get into the league since uh, everybody but one guy, and uh, you know he had more than Tom Brady, So I mean, the guy can win games. He put him with a good defense. You know, I think it will uh you know, it's going to be miserable for him probably, But I would I would think, you know, I think he'll give it. I think he'll

give it a good go. Lat made a good point about a J. I would think, you know, when I had a chance to talk to him, he was excited about them, about his fit in that scheme in Arizona. He compared it to what basically kens Ampezi and Bill Laser ran here. Uh but when when they were the coordinators and you know it's it's uh, you know, people forget this, but that that twenty eighteen season before AJ got hurt, I mean he was on fire. I mean he was. He was, you know, going to be uh

getting near his career high. You know, the three touchdowns against Baltimore when they put him in the slot. I think I think I think he lined up in the slot on all three you know those touchdowns. He was That's something that he mentioned was you know they lined them bump into one spot here, they're lined them up at the X in this last offense, and I think he feels like Arizona is going to move him around a little bit and that he'll probably run more, you know,

he won't run as many. And I think Lapp was right. And AJ didn't mention this in his last news conference. Was you know, it was a new you know, I'm not sure he was into the routes that they wanted him to run, so at least I think mentally he's going into it feeling like it's a better it's a better fit form, you know. And like lap mentioned um, you know, you know, does he have any Jews left? You know, I mean he did not go you know, when they were looking at te Higgins and Tyler Boyd,

you figured he'd go off. It didn't happen. Didn't happen because of the system that had happened, because you've got nothing left. Did it happened? You know, why did it happen? We're not gonna know, you know, we'll probably get a better We'll probably get a better answer when we see what happens, when we see what happens out there. I wish the best form, I wish the best for both guys.

You know, without them, there is no Green Dalton era. Yeah, they Andy Ajer, like you talked about push five straight playoffs fifty and twenty five over seventy five games. They won twice as many as they lost. I mean that and they were the two, you know, big primary reasons for it. I mean, that's what people forget about Andy Dalton. The start of his career was about as good as anybody's. I mean, you wouldn't twice as many games as you lose in your first five years in the league and

have and start right away as a rookie quarterback. That's that's a that's a hell of an accomplishment. Yeah, I was right up until the play where he broke his thumb fifty and twenty five until that game in twenty

fifteen when he broke his thumb. Right, He's going to say when with you know, when you know Zach Taylor coming in, tuck for Zach Taylor too, to fit him into his to to build a scheme because Ajie gets hurt like in his first practice, that Taylor is a coach and so is he is he is he scheming for aj Green of twenty fifteen. Aj Green of twenty twenty. It's a hard It was a hard call for everybody, and then you're throwing the pandemic where they couldn't have

worked together with a rookie quarterback. It was a perfect storm. It just goes to show you, no matter how great the player is, the mind has to be right. Mind can't be cluttered, you know, I mean it, and yep, your mindset has to be uh has to be really good. And I'll tell you know, AJ that that guy is solid gold. I mean as as a as a player, as a human being, you know, one of the one

of the greats of all time. And obviously wish him nothing but success than the m he don't like you mentioned, but I'd like to know how last year would have gone if the referee did what he should have done and keep the flag in his pocket and play against the Chargers in the opening game. Maybe that helps him, Maybe it doesn't. Maybe I'm a homer. I don't keep the flag in the pocket. You know, AJ got no separation last year. I don't know why that was the case.

I don't know if it's because of age. I don't know if it was because he missed the previous year and a half due to injury. I don't know if it was the comfort level in the offense, but your eye told you that that he didn't get any separation. The GPS data told you that that he didn't get any separation. So to me, it seems like as he gets older he'll be thirty three this season, that's probably not going to get better. It's going to get worse.

I hope he proves me wrong, because I love AJ and I would love to see him have a great finish to his career in Arizona. But I do wonder what the Cardinals are doing. I mean, do they think that there is an over thirty league for football that I'm not familiar with, because you know, JJ Watts one of the great defensive players of all time, but he's thirty one and has a building injury history. You know Malcolm Butler, they just signed him, He's in his thirties.

AJ is going to be thirty three. They went out and added a thirty seven year old kicker in Matt Crater. So I think the overwhelming history in the NFL is that if you go out and sign thirty year old and older free agents, it doesn't work. And they're signing one after the other. I guess what they're saying is they're all in for this year, right because next year

probably not going to be. Any of these guys are gonna be honest, If you end up signing guys and rewarding them for careers they have with other teams, that's dangerous policy there. You know, if you're signing the JJ Watt based on what he was with the Texans and what he was with the Texans five years ago, or you're signing an Aj Green what he was with the Bengas, what he was at the Bengas three years ago, that

can be a dangerous thing. The other I can tell you for from experience, if you have any doubt in your mind or aren't confident as an athlete, if you line up to pass protect, like when I was pass protecting or trying to against Joe Green and I thought, oh, this isn't going to go. Well, you're done, You're beaten. I mean, if AJ lined up, it's like, what am I supposed to do on this? I'm not sure about this.

I don't really believe in this. You're not gonna You're not gonna win, you know, So your mind has to be totally free and clear. You can't have any doubt about the scheme, the coaching, anything else, or you're in trouble and and uh, you know, maybe that's when when guys say I needed a new destination, I needed a new location, a change of scenery. That's kind of what

they're talking about. For whatever reason, maybe it was both ways, both parties off confidence and trust in each other or whatever. Who knows what the situation is, and every one of them is a little bit different. But change of scenery, you know, in some instances might be just exactly that. I'm gonna start fresh, start with a clean slate, an open mind. My head is clear, and I believe, and I'm gonna go out there and kick butt like I

used to. I mean, who knows, we'll see. DeAndre Hopkins had one hundred and fifteen catches last year, so AJ is not going to be the number one target or even the number two target if fift DeAndre Hopkins is healthy in Arizona last year, Larry Fitzgerald had fifty four catches for four hundred and nine yards. It was like seven yards per catch. AJ Green can obviously do that. I mean, he was a little better than that for

Cincinnati last year. So if that's what the Cardinals they're looking for, the guys that can get fifty catches average China, maybe close to ten yards at catches a third option, then he can deliver that. But if if they are expecting him to be the AJ Green from his first seven years in Cincinnati, I don't think there's much of a chance of that being the case. That's a good point. Then maybe they said, you know what, we're getting a

younger Larry Fitzgerald. AJ Green is almost a carbon copy of Larry Fitzgerald personality wise performance, you know, not Larry Fitzgerald can't run flat out speed like AJ. But I mean obviously great route runner, great understanding football and all that production level though. I mean they're both Pro Bowl players, multiple time Pro Bowl players, future Hall of Fame type player with great people skills on and off the football field. Maybe they thought, let's get a younger version of Larry

Fitzgerald and that's what we're expecting. They paid what six million guaranteed eight million contract. That's pretty good eats for if that's what their expectation was. You know, as for Andy Dalton in Chicago, he just better have tough skin he and JJ because you know, as you guys alluded to, it's already started and he hasn't even played a game yet in a Chicago uniform. The Bears posted a picture on Twitter yesterday or the day before of him in

his new number fourteen Bears jersey. Somebody photo shopped it and made it two and fourteen on the front of

the jersey, which was not very nice. And I don't know if you guys saw the Wheel of Fortune gag that was out there last week after he signed his deal with Chicago, but somebody posted the picture of the Wheel of Fortune board and you see, like on the top line there are four blank letters and then on the bottom line it's blank blank L blank O N and a Bears fan says, I would like to answer the puzzle Russ Wilson, and he's all happy, and then the letters turn over and it says Andy Dalton and

he's destroyed. So they are having a lot of fun at Andy's expense. In the games he started for Dallas last year, the Cowboys were four and five. I think that the Bears are going to be roughly a five hundred team. Their defense is good enough, that's what they were last year with you know, Nick Foles and Mitch Drubisky at quarterback, and he will be okay, he'll be somewhere around you know, twentieth and passer rating or something

like that. And I see them being a middle of the pack eight and nine, nine and eight type team. That's right. Abraham Wincoln had it tough on social media. He had it even worse than Ford's theater unfortunately. Yeah, all right, before we move on to some ask Lap or in this case ask a Lapping, Butch questions one more thing from me, and that is another all time Bengals great who has been let go. He hasn't signed on another team yet. That is Geno Atkins. What is

your favorite Geno Atkins memory? Butch, you want to go first for this one. It involves the man sitting right here. I didn't have much in our action with Gino, so I don't but Lap. When Lap was calling the December twenty third, twenty twelve game in Pittsburgh, when that great Bengals defense stone Pittsburgh to get into the playoffs, and Lap was punctuating each Geno play with Geno Atkins, I mean it was, I mean, Juno was dominant that day. You know, that was kind of his coming out Patty.

He was already a great play it was already a pro. But I think that game he established himself and it was Hey. I mean, it made one of the great analysts in the game. Break in the song. I remember in the locker room after that, in the locker room, he was looking for him. He goes, I'm looking for Geno act. It was great. That was my That's my one Geno memory in my one Geno game. I'm glad you asked me first, because that might be laps memory too.

My memory is Geno Atkins. When you go again a rookie or a young or just somebody that had never practiced against Geno Atkins before in pass rush drill, and I would position myself to look at the face of the opposing offensive lineman when Gino stormed off the ball and started bull rushing them, and the guys jacked up. He's on skates, he can't get his feed back on the ground, and his eyes were as biggest hard boiled eggs and Gino Atkins is throwing them around like a

rag doll. And I'm like, welcome to the world. To Geno Atkins. That was the most I mean, these are grown men, big body guys, and Gino in his prime was just tooling them, I mean throwing them around like there. It was a man amongst boys, and I would just love to watch training camp, pass rush, drill. And the first exposure of those guys had to the real Gino Atkins coming off to football man, he was unbelievable. He'd break them all in. He didn't doctrinate him for the

way of Gino. My on the old favorite memory of Gino is from the same game that Butch mentioned, that two twelve game in Pittsburgh where the Bengals beat the Steelers two days before Christmas. They earned the playoff berth. They knocked the Steelers out of the playoffs on their home field, and the reason in my case is that that is the most physical football game I have ever seen in my life on both sides. I mean, that

was an absolute fifteen round heavyweight fight. The Bengals sacked brought the burger four times, the Steelers sat Andy six times, the Bengals hit Ben seven times, the Steelers hit Andy eight times. And of all of those warriors that were out there that day, throwing Haymakers. Gino was the guy that stood out the most. His final stats. He had two sacks in that game, but he was actually in on three, so he had one solo and two shared sacks. He had a forced fumble, he had another tackle for loss.

I mean, the Steelers could not handle him in that game. Bengals wind up on the last second field bow by Josh Brown to go to the playoffs. And for an on field memory, that one is number one for me. I remember guys like Richie Incognito, you know when he was a pro bowler, and other guys, even even at the Pro Bowl, those guys would just say, Geno Atkins will start shaking their head. I mean, Geno Atkins was

definitely a freak of nature. I mean, just on that short, that short stout frame, he was so explosive, so strong, low center or gravity nightmare, nightmare. You gotta keep your pad level low. And even when you keep it low, it's awkward for you because his pad levels already low. You have to come off on your kneecaps instead of your feet to stay as low as Gino and his

day boy, he was unblockable one on one. They would never I mean I've watched games and he'd play an entire game and never be single blocked and pass protection not one time. Do you think Gino made it to be, you know, with the leverage game, to be a short game, you know, I think they were. I remember playing against guys like Dave Purify, Dave Roller. These defensive tackles were you know, like the short short player like you talked about. They weren't Gino. You know. Dave Roller had a spin

move was his big move. These guys had signature, you know, moves pacinos was I'm just gonna line up and kick your butt with my explosiveness, my strength. So yeah, I mean, I think I think anytime a guy um of that different stature, like Sam Mills playing linebacker, you know, five ten, five nine, and it's like unheard of before you can't play middle linebacker in the NFL at five to nine. I played against him in the USFL before we went to the NFL. That dude could play. I don't care

how tall that dude was a player. And uh yeah, I think you know Doug Gluti at quarterback, there's a There are all kinds of guys who break trends. I think Gino had fallen that category, butch, I mean that not only made it, but made it big. I mean, you know, perennial pro bowler. We're talking because I think Aaron Donald was. I think Aaron Donald a few years after that was, you know, a first round picking. You never would have seen a first round defensive tackle at

his dimension. Yeah, I mean for Gino to be all the Pro Bowls that he went to as a fourth round pick, one of the best value picks in franchise history. Let's face it, him and Trump twelfth round in Trumpy's case. I do actually have a Geno Atkins off the field memory back in two thou eleven, when when the Bengals were nice enough to give you Friday afternoons off lap and I used to do the Pepper Rally Show with

Archell Hawkins. Gino Atkins came on and did one hour on the radio with us, which you know he would never do. Now. He was perfectly fine. I thought he was good, The fans loved it. I wish that would have continued. But after he tore his ACL in twenty thirteen and then you know, wasn't quite as good the next year before eventually returning to his great form, took some criticism. Paul Gunther wasn't very kind and describing his play, it seemed like that was the point where he shut

it down to the media. And unfortunately, the notion of doing an hour of radio on location with with Gino Atkins could never happen again. My career conversations with you would not add up to an hour run them all together. It's a shame because he was fine when he did that news conference after he signed his most recent contract extension.

He was fine. I don't know if he just didn't like doing it or didn't think he was good good at doing interviews, but I wish that would have continued because that that one hour show with him was great. We have him on multiple times Dan, you know, early in his career on Bengals Final Monday Night for an hour and he was great. You're right. I think he just somebody something happened. He felt like he get betrayed by somebody, and he shut it down. He said, that's it,

I'm done with all of you. Whatever. That one incident was erected for everybody. I don't know what it was or how big it was, but in Geno's mind, it was big enough to shut it all down. All right, let's get to some of the ask Lap questions that came rolling in on Twitter this week. We will expand it to ask Lap and Butch, but since they were meant for Lap, well, let Lap go first, and then

we'll comment after our first question comes from Kelsey. Why do the Bengals feel comfortable banking on Frank Pollock turning around their offensive line play when that strategy didn't work with Jim Turner. Well, you know, the first thing that you have to have talent makes a coach great talent. If a coach has got players, it's a hell of a lot easier to be a great coach. There's no

question about it. All coaches will tell you the same thing, but all all great players, you know, Anthony Munos will tell you the reason he was as good as he was as Jim mc nelli, you know, and Maxi Montoria feels the same way. It's it's almost like, you know, it's you have to have both if if if a great player doesn't have a coach that can take him to another level. Everybody wants to be coached, Everybody wants

to be helped. Everybody wants to improve, and the great ones that are realistic realize they don't have all the answers. So you're looking for somebody that's going to take your game, whatever it is, to the next level. If you're a guy that's just making an NFL team, you want a guy that's gonna help you be a contributor on the roster. If you're just a contributor on the roster, you want a guy who's going to make you a starter. If you're a starter, you want a guy that's going to

make you a pro bowler. I mean, that's just the way it is. And I think that Frank Pollock has I think he has a reputation of employing sound techniques and he's a great teacher of his techniques. And that's what Jim McNally was. Jim McNally had techniques he believed in. He was always refining them. Jim McNally would would never like no nose. This is the answer, this is the only answer. And that's why I think what players like

about Frank Pollack. Having played the game for nine years, he understands that everybody types not the same, and a technique that works for one guy might not be the best technique in the world for another guy. One guy might be long upper torso, short legs, another guy long legs, short up torso. One guy's get long on, one guy's get short on. You have to be able to mollify, you know, and adapt your and adjust your techniques. And Frank is really good at that, and I think players

respond to that. And he's there not to be a dictate. He's there to help. You know, I'm not saying that it's a democracy. You know, he will make all the decis as, but he listens and um and and adapts. And I think I think a great testament to Frank

Pollock is the relationship he has with Joe Nixon. That's not even one of his players, but Joe Nixon realizes the value that Frank Pollock brought to that offensive line room and how they responded to him, and how it made him his life easier and better as a running back and as a football player. And so I think that the ripple effect that a good offensive line coach can have in terms of confidence and then performance betterment,

not just by lineman, by by everybody. Quarterback feels more confident, you know, I'm going to have time to build the football with this guy teaching my lineman. But again, Dan, you do have to have something to work with, you know. I mean he can't, he can't perform miracles. Got to improve the offensive line and and let him be part of the valuation process. This guy would be perfect because the techniques that I'm trying to employ, he's watching him

on tape. He's going to be able to execute everything that I want to execute from a technique standpoint. All that stuff I think becomes important. I've never heard another coach or player say a negative word about Frank Pollock, whether it's with the Bengals or with another team. And there aren't that many coaches that I can say that about. There's always a critic out there somewhere just about everybody. It seems like anybody you talk to has respect for

Frank Pollock as a coach and as a person. It's a pretty good sign. And you know, Dan, that's a great point because like Dick Lebou, for example, every player that was in contact with Dick Lebau respects them and then likes them to boot. If you have that double combination, you have total respect. So you're not going to take advantage of them, but you really like them. That's powerful and I think you hit right on that right nail.

Running the head with Frank Pollock. I think the players respect and the added cherry on top of the Sunday is they like them. Next question, I'm going to combine two questions. Hank asks, why is the Bengals organization so cavalier about improving the offensive line? Ryan asks, how can they not address guard? So combine those two two questions into one thought lap Why so cavalier about approving the offensive line? Why have they not addressed guard? They haven't

been cavalier, They just haven't hit. They don't have to go back too many drafts to find a way hand fish where they went first and second round and tried to double down with their top two picks and went over You know, that's just that's a tough that's a

tough dynamic. That's a tough thing to recover from. Not just that here, that has an impact on a few years when you when you go over two on your first two picks of a draft, that it doesn't work out at that position and other positions you could have addressed with those picks. Go unaddressed. You haven't massive ripple effect. So you know, Billy Price, you know, with a high it's not like they haven't expended high picks, but they haven't gotten the value in return for those high picks.

And it's not just the Bengals, I mean coaches should say. Fans in every single city will cry and moan about, you know, failed picks with their offensive line. It's not an exact science. And they have tried to address it and they will continue to address it, and it's going

to be addressed big time in this draft. And what you have to do is you just have to try to recruit by whatever means, free agency, the draft, college fit, whatever it is, as many talented players as you can and put the best five out in the field, no matter what position you end up putting them at. If they do draft Penney Seul and they say, all right, we're gonna put them at right tackle and Riley Reef you're going inside. Well we're gonna put them at left tackle,

and Jonah you're going in, so be it. If it's better to put Penney Suel inside, so be it. The guy who's going to decide that is Frank Pollock. But put the five best guys. Hopefully you have ten guys that you can you know, you're they're all compete in their tail on. You find the five best, put him at positions that you feel will be most successful for

their contribution to the team. And then you know, however many to keep eight or nine offensive lineman and have to deactivate one or two of them, whatever the case may be. You have to have position versatility, and that's one thing that I think Frank understands them and puts in his evaluation process. Have to be able to play more than one position. I really do believe that he'll help get it right. He'll get players in there to compete and put an offensive line out there, and he's

going to feel proud of it. Are the Bengals Cavalier about improving the offensive line? If they draft Suol and us Slater in the first round, there'll be fourth first round picks in the last seven drafts. That's the opposite of Cavalier. And I agree with you, Butch, I think Slater I'm not. I'm not one that has Seul and

then a big drop to Slater. I have Sul and Slater you know up there pretty good in fact, if I were in a situation where I could trade back with that fifth pick and still be able to get Slater and get an extra second round pick. Bingo Bengo Bongo, I am printing to get that done, because then you get then you get Slater, and then you get maybe two edge rushers in the second round. If you are if you get tackle in an edge rush, you think later can definitely play garden tackle, and then you get

maybe uh yeah, an edge rush. In my mind, there's offensive lineman that they could get that could help, particularly of guard up until the fourth round. Fourth round. If you get an extra second round pick, you have five picks in the and they're in the fifth pick of the fourth round. So you're five picks to the fifth pick of the fourth round. You're still talking about, you know, one of the top one hundred and fifty odd players

in the country. You're still going to be able to get good, viable candidates and double down on one or two position groups. Our next question comes from Bearcat Joe. If Paul Brown were still alive, wouldn't he draft Pinney Sewell?

Would he? Laugh? I think he'd be in consideration. Under consideration, I mean, like I've said a couple of times, I know Paul Brown's mentality was, you know, built from the inside out, and he knew that he had a lot of great Pro Bowl skilled players, but without you know, the Mike McCormick's of the world. In his offensive line, he Lou Groza, you know, he was he was all about Lulu two. Obviously a more famous kicker than but he was the Pro Bowl tackle as well, Mike McCormick

and Lou grow He. He always had superior offensive lines. He believed in it. So I do think that he would he would definitely consider Seul Slater. I mean, there's I'm not sure that he would necessarily be married to one, but I know he would put high importance on that position. You know. The thing, like I've said with Seuel, I like him obviously, it's hard not to like him his

physical attributes, but it's a very small sample size. And you know, when you watch him, like in this opener against Oregon, watching that game, a third of his pass sets he didn't win, and he didn't have many of them. I'm talking about drop back protection and the way their offense is struggled. Drop Back protection is hard to identify, and it wasn't It wasn't great competition. You know that uh that that SEC who's Auburn's you know, middle of

the SEC. He was struggling. He was struggling to win. So he didn't play against ten or twelve dominant edge rushes from the SEC that you have all this tape, you know, in order to say, oh, yeah he's the guy, Maybe not be there. I mean, I'm not saying he wouldn't project. I'm saying he does project, but I'm not saying that's a slam dunk. It never is with anybody.

But you know, he's obviously wanted to consider what do you think Butcher Paul were still alive, would he takes suel It's interesting what Lapps said, you know about you know, Paul noticed stuff like that. Obviously clearly he was one of the best in the game, you know, and he wasn't afraid of going out of the box. Maybe he wouldn't. Maybe I remember him the only the only draft I covered him in was the nineteen ninety one draft, and he was heartbroken when the Seattle took Dan McGuire, who

was Mark McGuire's brother. He loved the Quay he loved the tall quarterback, and that would have been a little bit out of the box at that point in the first round, So you know, if people were alive, I remember him saying at a practice, he goes, I'm a firing fallback guy. Peepe might be pulling the trigger on Chase. Where are you guys right now? I think our opinions all you know, we drift back and forth for which guy we would like if they stay at number five.

Who are you picking right now? He said? You know, Lap just scared me with that, So I don't you know you gotta go. You gotta protect the guy, right, I mean, I guess you go. If you think schools better. I think you got to take the tackle. I think you got to take the offensive lignement. Yeah, I would. I would go for an offensive lineman if there's one available there, like we talked about before. I mean, you know,

these mock drafts are exactly that. But you got mock drafts to have quarterbacks going with the first four picks. So you know, if that's the case, you're gonna be able to pick the best non quarterback football player in the entire draft. That's a good place to be if they don't take all those quarterbacks the first four picks ahead of the Bengals at number five. Now, you're gonna have teams wanting to move up if they are indeed interested in a quarterback and their guys still there, and

you'll be able to trade back. That's my first option, or my first hope, is that those quarterbacks don't all go in the first four picks. I don't know, maybe somebody would panic and say, oh, we'll take the fifth one. Whoever the fifth one is. There are five of them that they're projecting go in the first round. They're not all going to go the first five picks, but you never know. I mean, I think they're going to be

in a good position. The draft starts at pick two, obviously, I think they're going to be in a good position at five to potentially trade back. And just like in these free agency contracts, you know, the Bengals they were out pursuing players, but it takes two to make a deal. If the player doesn't want to sign, it doesn't matter if you're out there trying to sign them. If they don't want to sign them, you know, it's a two street Galladay in my mind, Joe Burrow was an attraction.

These receivers that want to sign one year contracts and then go to free agency next year. Why wouldn't you want to be with Joe Burrow if your receiver that you know wants to have a big year and a one year deal. So you know, I don't know this, It's going to be an interesting time this draft. But if they could trade back, I think they might might find a partner to trade back. In the end, that would be a Christmas morning for me. Get two firm, get two players. If Sewell is there, I take Sewell.

I'm not going to overthink it. I think he's got the chance to be a multi time pro bowler who's going to spend you know, a decade at either left or right tackle. If he's gone and Jamar Chase is there, I'm fine with taking Jamar Chase and reuniting him with Joe Burrow. If they're both gone, I'm still not there. And taking Kyle Pitts at number five is as great as he seems like he could be, and you know, the grand the unbelief about forty time. At that point,

I would really look to trade down. That's where I am. Suel is still my hope Chase is right there with him. After that, I'd be fine with trading down. I'm with you, I would not have if they take Tonay Seul at five, and you know, you wonder if I mean you're hearing, then he might not be there. But if he is there at five, he deserves it. I mean he's I don't think that's over ranking him in this year's draft. Chase. You watch that guy run routes. He throws people around.

I mean he is a physical route runner. And of course you know Joe Burrow throwing twenty touchdown passes in the great year. So how can you argue that? Laugh. I think left to make a big decision, they'll have to say, is our Suel and Chase that much better then? Because I think they'll have multiple suitors. I don't think he'll be I think they'll have multiple suitors. I think they'll be able to take the deal. With that deal,

you know, be better than taking Suel or Chase. You know, I think they have to, you know, because like you said about those those two high second round picks, those are going to be what one of the top fifty players in the country. What are they? What are they do in free agency. Instead of taking one guy, they tried to get many guys they possibly could. I think they're in that kind of that that mode. You know, it might spill over into the draft. Instead of just

one guy. If you have a chance to get a guy that you have rated very closely to that one guy and get another pick, you know, they may go that rug. You know, they got two corners for the price of Will Jackson, maybe they can get a couple of rookie linemen for the price of one. Or who knows? Who knows? All right, a few more ask Lap questions. This one comes from Dustin. Did the Bengals attack defense and free agency or is that just how things worked out?

I think it's just how it worked out, you know. I think I think that they were they were in there. They wanted to sign and Tuning just like everybody. But it got ridiculous. They weren't going to sign them. They wanted to sign Golladay. You know, there there were offensive players that they were in the hunt for. I'm sure, but you know, when the numbers got to the point where all right, let's pivot and see what we can

get a bigger bang for the buck. Ass such and how many players that we might be able to get, and I think it just so happened to be defensive players. I don't think when they went through their free agency evaluation was like, jeez, there were no offensive players and there are a ton of defensive players, and the draft is all offense and no defense. I don't think it

was that clear cut and simple. I think they just ended up pivoting to the you know, to the next the next plan, and it fell in the defensive players laps. I think I'm not saying coincidental, but I'm saying that it just that's just the way the chips fell. I think laps deet on. I think it was a deeper It was a deeper free agency. The free agency board was deeper on defense, I think for the spots that

they needed compared to offense. You know, the guy the guard thing I think just kind of fell off the cliff after Pooney when you're talking about the money, and I just felt like they thought they were better fits at corner, like you said, the two for one, and they knew they had to get at the minute the

Thuney thing went ridiculous. They knew they had to get an edge rusher because that because because I think they went in thinking, you know, we might be able to get two edge rushers at ten millarpiece, but that you know, because of the way, because of the reduced cap. But then the way the thing you know, obviously in the first hours of free agency are clearly that that was not going to happen. Again, like Lap said, the pivot pooney was ridiculous. Get the make sure you get the

edge game. I think the other thing that happened too was that offensive linemen that they were interested in either resigned with their original team or got tagged, like Taylor Moten from Carolina. You know, that was a name that came up over and over and over and over, and then Panthers stagged so much for that. Darryl Williams name

came and came up a lot, Buffalo resigned him. So some of those free agents that they probably spent a lot of time studying and determining what they were going to offer and what their value would be, never came to fruition because they ultimately were not free agents, and at that point you pivot to the guys that are, and that's why the numbers went up so extremely high. For the ones that did make free agency, the pool

was smaller. It's a supply and demand thing. You had a smaller pool, fewer teams, the fewer teams wanted to make make a you know that that had the one need. I mean, Kansas City said we need we need an interior linehelp. That's what they went after, and they spent a ton to get it. Redskins, you know, targeted dear guy Trent Willas. That was their only what they went and got it done. So that's why free agency in the early stages, if you have a great lineman, normally

they don't make free agency. See but when when they did, I think I think some teams were probably surprised that the number got so high. I bet San Francisco Chiefs, we didn't expect to pay that much for Trent Williams. I bet Kennethy, I bet we didn't expect that much to pay for a guard. But you know, those guys were commodities that that that a team that needed that specific thing was going to pay whatever it took to get and others had to move on and pivot. All right,

Our next question is actually a celebrity question. This comes from former Saturday Night Live cast member and Lakota East High School grad Luke Null, a big Bengals fan. Luke's question is who do you anticipate seeing the biggest improvement out of from the returning players on defense? What do you think of that? Let My first reaction is, I can't wait to see the guy they spent so much money on it didn't get a snap out of it, Trey Waynes. You know, I think he's going to be

a big contribute to their success. Um, and we're talking about free agents that, uh or anybody that played defense last year you're saying to improve to this year? Is that the question? I think so returning players on defense. So I guess it could be a guy like Trey Waynes who was returning that didn't play. Yeah, I mean, you know, I can't wait to see, you know, his his contribution, DJ reader, I think was was playing well and uh, you only got a couple of snaps in before,

you know, having that that severe knee injury. So you know, I think I think him and and that that's that's brings you know, to the to the other point. It's, uh, it's it's almost like you've got two free agency classes instead of just one with with guys like Trey Waynes and DJ Reader being added to the guys that they've signed on defense. Uh, you know in this offseason with Mike Hilton's and uh hit Cheeto and uh you know you had Trey Waynes to that, and it's uh, it

really is, it really is pretty pretty incredible. Ricardo Allen um Eli Apple. I mean, they they've remade their secondary DJ Reader, Trey Hendrickson, Clarry Ogan, Joebie. I mean, it's it's it's remarkable what they've done in terms of free agency the last two years. The defense is totally redone, reshuffled, and I think it's going to be interesting who steps up, who steps up and performs at the levels that they were evaluated at and the team's projecting them to play it.

I'm a Logan Wilson guy. I think Logan Wilson is going to be I expect him to come up big. They obviously have a lot of confidence in him because they seem to suggest that he will be starting a rat and I think that they're very high on when they draft. You know, they were cyber Leaf when they did get him at the top of the third round, and I think they feel like his football instincts, his quickness and his athleticism is something they really haven't had

a bet spot. They've tried there too down through the years, but I expect him to take a big guy. He'll be starting getting a lot of snaps that year wanted two jump I think will be huge for Roldan Wilson. And on that note, we will wrap up this logger than anticipated but hopefully very entertaining version of the Bengals Booth Podcast. Gentlemen, I really appreciate your time. Thank you, Thanks forty. Always great to be with you. Guys, appreciate it. Dan,

good to see you. Butch same here and laugh. Thank you. That's going to do it for this week's episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to you by bud Light Seltzer. Refresh the game. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe, and if you have a minute, given a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde and thank you for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast.