Hi, get everybody.
I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading The Bengals Booth Podcast. The I gotta say it was a good day. Addition, sorry bad cold strained voice you know singing this week, as we look back at a memorable day in the Jungles, Saturday's dramatic overtime win over the Vikings coming up, radio replays, locker room comments and postgame analysis from Dave Lappum. Then in this week's fun Facts Conversation, the incredible life story
of Bengals tight ends coach James Casey. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber, future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is
the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the Coffin Nails banner. As Evan McPherson's game
winning field goal is flying toward the goalpost. On Saturday, fans in the end zone unfurled a banner right between the uprights that said coffin nails a nod to what Dave Lapham and I usually say after the play that clinches of Bengals win. It was much appreciated and more proof that Bengals fans are the best and have made the Jungle one of the loudest and toughest environments for visiting teams in the NFL. Now time for radio replays
from an incredible come from behind win over Minnesota. With four games left in the regular season, nearly forty percent of the AFC has a record of seven and six six out of sixteen teams, the Bengals are one of them, and chances are only two of those six will make the playoffs.
That makes today's.
Home game against the Minnesota Vikings critical and it is time for the pig skin to fly. Here in the Jungle. Browning throwing it deep for Jamar Chase. He's got it as he makes an arms extended catch before going out of bounds at the twenty yard line.
I'll tell you what that's an unbelievable throw because Jake Browning got blown up.
Robbins with his right knee on the field turf. He catches the long snap, puts the ball down. The kick is knocked through by Evan McPherson, and the Bengals score on their opening possession.
To take a three to nothing lead.
Trips out to the left, Hockinson out to the right, Mullins looking throwing, intercepted at the goal line.
Mike Hilton running it back.
He stumbles and goes down at the seventy yard line. Have the Bengals get a red zone takeaway? Three receivers left, one out to the right. Mullins has the ball, He's looking left. Here comes the rush. Mullets sacked by beaj Hill.
The ball comes out.
Have the Bengals recover with twenty seconds left in the half.
He came up with the ball.
They were all about two takeaways in the red zone in the second quarter.
Unreal.
Everybody's standing up here in the jungle. Third down and nine from the Cincinnati thirty eight. Nick Mullens clapping his hands. Cincinnati sends five Bullins in trouble pros caught by Annison. Nobody left to tackle him. He will streak down the field and go into the end zone for a thirty eight yard touchdown.
DJ Turner went for the deflection. He left his feet. He went to make a play on the football, and when he could not make a play on the football, it was over.
Browning back to throw his pass for Higgins in the end zone. Touchdown Bengals. A perfect throw from Jake Browning and an over the shoulder catch for t Higgins for the Bengals touchdown.
Don't mess around. First down in the red zone, go for the gusto.
Browning drops back to throw four come after him. Browning fires down the fields, caught by Chase. He's got a first down at the nineteen a Minnesota shake. Browning putting it right on the money for Jamar Chase. Browning's going to be in the shotgun. Joe Mixon to his right. Everybody bunched in tight. They handed to Mixon. He gets hit, tries to go in a double effort and does. The second effort gets the Bengals a touchdown as Joe Mixon
spikes the ball triumphantly after taking it in. He got hit by Ivan Pace in between the one and the two bounced off him, kept fighting and got in.
He was not gonna be denied.
Mullins sends another receiver in motion he will look to throw. Mullins, standing now rolling to the right, being chased toward the sideline, throws it into the end zone, caught by Addison for the touchdown, and the Vikings have the lead with three forty eight to go.
Forty eight seconds left in regulation.
On second and ten, Browning, scrambling right in trouble, throws it off his back foot toward the end zone. T Higgins wins a jump ball for the football, hits a touchdown, an incredible catch by T. Higgins, and the Bengals have scored with thirty nine seconds to go.
I can't believe what T Higgins just did.
Unreal. I mean Jake Browning to put it in the area and then Higgins catches it at the one and just throws it back without losing control of it. He just swoops his arm over his head and the ball crosses the goal line and the Bengals get a tying touchdown.
Can the Bengals stop Minnesota on fourth down in about two inches in over time, which at the forty one yard line.
Wouldn't you love to have DJ Reader in there for this.
Now Mullins will be under center, Chandler lined up behind him. The Vikings try the bush. The Bengals appear to have stopped in Cincinnati. Got a great search up front.
Head.
Looks like the Vikings lost yardage going for the touch push. Let's see about the spot. It all comes down to the spot.
Man, I'll tell you they got off the ball faster than the offensive lineman did. I mean they get off That defensive charge was unbelievable, I thought, man, is that on side?
And it was?
The Bengals will take over at their own forty two yard line on incredible job by the defense.
That's the first time all year Minnesota has been stopped on fourth and one, and it was fourth in a nature two.
The Vikings showing pressure.
Here comes the Blants, Browning looking scrambling to the right, Browning throwing down field. It is Cod Tyler Boyd still on his feet. He's at the twenty. He will be brought down inside the fifteen. He's tackled at the thirteen. An incredible throw in a narrow window by Jake Browning. Tyler Boyd made the catch. Stayed on his feet. The Bengals convert on third down and nine, and now they are well within the field goal range of Evan McPherson.
This will be from twenty nine yards away from straightaway, shorter than an extra point. Looking for the seventh walk off field goal of his NFL career and his second in a span of three weeks. Robbin's ready to hold the snap, the placement, the right footed kick. Oh, it is good, and the Bengals are still alive in the playoff hut as they rally from a fourteen point deficit in the fourth corner and beat them Minnesota Vikings in
over time twenty seven to twenty four. Now let's hear from head coach Zach Taylor, who spent a few minutes with Lap after the game.
Man, I've been saying it in the locker room the whole time here, as the legendary Jim Volvano said, don't give up, don't ever give up. I mean, that's this football team. Yeah.
I love these guys. You know, they just find a way to overcome the adversity. There's a lot of diversity in that game. I never panicked down fourteen points. Things weren't going great. We weren't in great rhythm on offense at first, and then on defense eventually, and then everybody just came together and found a way to get it done.
Just to tick off, you know, I mean, just to you know, there were plays to be made and take advantage of and just couldn't quite make them in the first half. But to come from behind twenty one points scored in the fourth quarter against that defensive football team, that's pretty remarkable.
I'm just proud of our guys, proud of the coaches for the play that they prepare. That starts with Brian Callahan. I thought he did a great job this week steering that ship and guys believing in it. And again, just sometimes it takes some time. You're playing a good defense.
It's tough.
It's an orthodox defense, and so it's not gonna be perfect the whole game, and just got to hang in there and find your moments, and our guys did.
What does it take to go against defense like that? I mean, obviously, patients, you know it's not going to always go the way you think, But I mean, what's the biggest thing to attack in the defense like that? That's so unorthodox?
I think just patients and try to stay one step ahead. They throw a lot at you, so it can be difficult to do. It starts with the quarterback not being overwhelmed by all the different looks you can get, and Jake did not. He was not overwhelmed. He did a great job managing it. The guys around him did a great job managing it. And I'll us to be successful.
Through for over three hundred yards, I think hit at least eleven different receivers. I mean, he's he's tripping the ball very very well, isn't he. He's done a great job.
You know, he blongs in this league and he's proven that every week and he's proven it to this locker room for a long time now. That's why he's gotten the opportunity he has, and I'm really proud of him.
The touchdown run that Joe Mixon had was jaw dropping to me. I'm like, dude, that's I mean, you talk about second third effort.
Huge fourth down, got to get in. You know, that's a game changing play right there. And he did it very similar last week and he did again this week.
So they were five for five on fourth and one coming into the football game. Fourth and one. You score a touchdown fourth and two inches, they lose three inches. I mean that ended up being a big deciding factor in the football game. Fourth down in a scoch Yeah.
I saw our guys get a tremendous push on that fourth down, you know, at the end of the game to get him stopped, and it looked like he bobbled a snap because of it. And so again, it was very similar to when we beat Minnesota a couple of years ago. Got a defensive stop at the same field in overtime, gave the offense the ball, hit one big play, and then Evan seals it for us.
Same score. Okay, I think it was yeah score. I'm pretty sure, man, I'll tell you so. I know. I know. It's one week at a time. Can you celebrate for a while. Can you go home and celebrate this game for a while. You're going right to Pittsburgh.
I can go home and relax.
Yeah, I'm not.
We're done with football for today. We'll pick up tomorrow morning, you know. And it's a normal seven day week for once. We haven't had a seven day week and since last year.
I think you know what you've done keeping this football team fresh down the stretch is paying off once again. But coach Man, what was the deal with the injury? Gods? I mean, they took some took some shots at us today.
That's the way it works.
You know, sometimes it's gonna happen like that and we're gonna have to have other guys step up, and you know, it is tough to see, you know, a key player, especially like DJ Reader go down and hopefully hopefully it doesn't get us elsewhere.
Appreciate your time, A full week of preparation for the Pittsburgh Steelers. They're in trouble. Appreciate you. Thank you.
The Bengals have leap fraud the Steelers and climb to the number six playoff seed in the AFC seven teams get in. Cincinnati is currently at two and a half point favorite for Saturday's game in Pittsburgh. Now time for the radio guy's recap lap. That was an amazing, memorable game. So many key plays that the Bengals absolutely had to make and made to get out of here with an overtime win.
Yeah, in the first half they had things, opportunity knocked and they didn't answer. They didn't make the plays in the second half, particularly.
The fourth quarter.
They made every play they could possibly make, and some of them were acrobatic, phenomenal, just crazy plays to make, and they made every single one of them. And you score twenty one points in the fourth quarter against Brian Flor's defense the way they're playing, that's mind boggling stuff, it really is.
Jake Browning was incredible in the second half. He threw for nearly three hundred yards in the second half, I believe, and obviously made so many plays where he had to extend the play, avoid the rush, find somebody open downfield, and deliver the ball.
I mean, the gold star on the forehead play of what you're describing was the one that Tyler Boyd to basically set the game winning field goal up. Tyler Boyd's on the left side of the formation outside the numbers. When the play starts and Jake gets out of pocket, he has to create an extent and Tyler Boyd scrambled drill and Jake Browning on the run throws right between two defenders into the arms of Tyler Boyd for a
huge play. That's hard to do. That's hard to be that accurate with that kind of touch and timing on the run like that, and he I think he's always been a pretty good thrower of the football on the run.
Do we know how T.
Higgins held the ball, swirled it behind his back, held onto the ball and got it over to the pylon on that one touchdown?
When you think about it, think of all the things that had to go through his mind in just instance, you know, I mean just a milliseconds to be aware, catch it, I'm in bounds, Stay in bounds and take that ball and just you know, make the arc over my head to break the plane inside the pylon. I mean, that's that's just uh, that's football awareness, football savvy. H And he's he's such a gifted athlete. I mean his size, speed ratio, is ability to run routes, contested catch, strong hands.
I mean he checks a ton of boxes. There's no question.
Do we know who deserves credit for the fourth down?
Stop? You o? T?
I mean BJ Hill? I think he. I think he was low, Zach Carter was hot. They both came off the ball like a banchie. I mean the interior that defensive line just did a heck of a job. And I was kidding bj Hill after the game, I said, what about linebacker. Man, the hands you have, you got two interceptions. There's defensive backs in the league that have played a lot of snaps that don't have one man they're all they're all waiting for their first interceptions of
the season, and you're racking them up. He said, what ever takes? I mean, he said, I told you I was an athlete. He is. I mean, he's he's a good athlete.
Eight and six, three to go. They're obviously very much alive in the playoff race, but with lots of work still to do.
No doubt, lots of work to do. They get a chance now to sit back and watch the Pittsburgh Steelers, you know, in their in their contest, so you can get a jump on preparation, you know, for that football game, but you know, not not studying it like you would you know, on a normal work day. But it's never easy. I can tell you for a fact, going to Pittsburgh and playing the Steelers is never an easy task, no matter what the stakes, what the circumstances. But they've proven
themselves to be human. I mean, the last the last two home games to lose. The teams that they lost to very very Unsteeler like I mean, Mike Tomlin must be beside himself.
It's kind of interesting to watch Jake Browning in this game because he couldn't do some of the things that have worked so well the last couple of weeks. They didn't get a hunt plus rushing yards. They didn't get a ton of big playsoff screen passes. He kind of had to be Burrow like and find open receivers under pressure and deliver good throws.
He did. I mean he had to. He had to put his nose to the grindstone, you know, in terms of you know, he had to create an extent when he could throw on time. He had to throw on time and hit spots. And he did. He hit tight spots. He played an outstanding football game. This guy is legit. I mean, there is no doubt, you know, Zach started laughing. He goes, you know, honestly, he goes, Jake Brownie did a phenomenal job. He said, you know, really, you can't
ask for much more when we were talking after the game. So, I mean, he is. He's basically turned his career down a totally different path. There is no question about it. And couldn't couldn't happen to a better guy and a guy that's you know, works his tail off to get that opportunity.
The win came with a hefty price. We saw DJ Reader leave the locker room on crush, which is with a big bulky brace on his right knee, the heart and soul of the defensive line, one of the team leaders on this team. And that's a very significant loss.
No question it is. I mean, ask when he's asking Zach about that, he said, we don't have any final determinations yet, but that one does not look good. I mean, you know, he's realistic about it. I mean, he realizes that the DJ season is probably over. Dj Ivy he's not optimistic about either with his knee injury. And then,
of course the reaction that dj Ivy had. Whenever I see grown men, tough guys, you know, in tears, it's telling you that something bad happened that's jeopardizing their opportunity ability to play. So those two injuries were you know, obviously massive.
Saturday Number one was successful. Bring on the Steelers next Saturday in Pittsburgh.
Bring on the Steelers and Joe Mixon that touchdown run my man. Talk about inspirational. That was a gutsy run run like that in Pittsburgh, Joe.
This Booth podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by All to Fiber future Proof Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Finally, it's time for this week's fun facts conversation. Normally this
segment is no more than fifteen minutes long. This week I spent thirty eight minutes with a Bengals coach with a remarkable story to tell. Time for some fun facts with Tight Ends coach James Casey. Born and raised in Texas, not far from fort Worth. Were you a city kid or a country kid?
Country kid?
I'm from Azle, Texas outside of Fort Worth, and like you know, being from Texas and everybody thinks DFW Dallas Footworth area.
But for it's way different than use It's not. It's more rural. It was a decent sized city. But I'm definitely a country guy.
I got I bought some land in Texas, so when I got opportunities my a little bit of free time.
Like I like getting out in the country.
What do you miss when you're away the.
I miss just the people, the hospitality, Like it is different, Like you know, you know, everybody knows people from Texas and how prideful they are of their state and and it's it's it's valid. I mean, there's it's you grow up there and you have pride in your state and and just used to that southern hospitality. And I mean Cincinnati has been awesome, Like Cincinnati's kind of it reminds
me of a little bit of Texas. So I'm really glad I get the coach here in a great city like this, Like the people here are are similar, like just you know, down to earth people that are you know, I'm used to, like, you know, the old school like opening doors for people, saying, you know, please, thank you, you're welcome, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, yes, sir.
I guess that's kind of like the Texas stuff.
And I'm trying to raise my kids like that too, and they I mean, it's it's strange, but sometimes that you know, people are not used to that, and you know, they almost feel like they're mocking them or something. It's like, no, I'm just I'm just trying to be polite and I'm trying to be There's the reason why they're called the magic words, because it you know, you treat people nice,
treat respect, you're not mocking them. Like over time, I think they understand that, you know, we're not trying to you know, I say yes sir a lot and people say, don't call me sir, like they're mad at me.
I know they're just kind of playing around by.
I'm just trying to be respectful, you know, I'm not trying to be you know, be I'm not trying to be mean or you don't make money or anything.
Just that's just how I am.
So James, this segment is called fun Facts, but it's really your life story in ten to fifteen minutes, and your life story includes heartbreak and a devastating loss. Your mom passed away in a fire when you were sixteen years old. I can't imagine the fear, I can't imagine the trauma. How did you get through it?
Yeah?
I mean I never talked about it just because it's bad emotionally, bad feelings and bad memories. But you know, it's also if I do get a chance to speak to kids or something, because you know, everybody deals with tragedies, and some bigger than others, and you know, losing your mom is a pretty big one. And in a trailer. You know, I didn't grow up any money. I grew up really poor and in Asil And I was at school one day and they came and got me and said my trailer burned down and my mom was inside.
So I mean I lost everything. So it was, uh, you know, devastating.
Of course I didn't have.
The only I had was like backpack that I was, that I was wearing, the clothes I was wearing that day, and then my mom was gone. But so I mean I was, of course, you know, devastated. The biggest thing that got me over it was you know, it took you know, like maybe like a week week later, just you know, feeling sorry for myself, you know, kind of down to the dumps, which happens.
To a lot of people.
You know, you deal with something like that, and a lot of people, you know, turned to drugs or they just turned just giving up and not caring. But eventually came I had like a kind of like epiphany or like awareness to say, like, well, my mom would not have wanted me to just feel sorry for myself and be moping around and and you know, making bad grades in school and not trying in sports. So I just said, you know, she would have wanted me to you know,
that happened. It's it's it's there's nothing can change about it. So the only thing I could do is, you know, try to make the best of whatever I can do and make her proud. So you know, I really just said, you know what, she would want me to do great
things and be good. And so after that happened, I really picked it up even more so like my work ethic, my my school, my sports, I just try to be wanted to try to be the best just to just because that's how I feel like you should do things like try to maximize everything, all your potentials, and it's like you don't want to let people down.
And so once.
I've realized that, and I had a ton of support from the city, like azel text, like I had, I had people buying me clothes, you know, I had there was a guy that got me a truck, like you know, I ended up having nicer things afterwards, I mean, a terrible situation, but I had a lot of people around me the helping me. And you know, my wife, you know, I'm married high school sweethearts. We've been married in seventeen years,
so she came along ride for that. And like anything in life, you need a lot of people helping you, no matter how hard you work.
And I had a lot of people around me helping me.
Did you learn about the inherent goodness of people through that?
I did. Yeah.
I learned about how how you know, we were speaking of texts earlier, just how people there are, like genuinely good people out there that are they don't want anything in return, They're just they just want to help, especially when you're young, you know.
But I also learned that.
You have to show you have to show some initiative and some addition ambition first for people to help you. You know, if I would have been a kid that wasn't making I was making terrible grades, or I wasn't trying hard in sports, I don't think I would.
Have had as much help. But everybody in the community, like knew that I was.
You know, I made straight a's in school before that, and I was I was good in sports.
I worked hard, I was tough.
So I think all the people that knew me and knew my situation, they knew I was a kid that like wanted to do well, and they knew I wasn't like normal kids stuff. But I wasn't. I wasn't a kid that was like, you know, trying to be disrespectful all the time. So I think because because how I was beforehand, that they knew I was like work.
I was a hard worker.
I did things. I tried to do things the right way. So then I had a whole bunch of help because of that. And then and they didn't want anything to return there. You know, I had people that would, you know, give me stuff and I didn't even know where.
It was coming from, and.
And not still just you know, if I wouldn't have all that help, like who knows what I could have done. You know, there's a lot of people in those same circumstances where it goes you know, probably the majority of people in those same circumstances where it goes downhill.
In her life.
But because I had all those people helping me it, you know, I just used it as motivation.
I still do to this day.
Just trying to never want to let people down and trying to achieve is you know, do the best I can and achieve great things.
We're visiting the tight Ends coach James Casey. You were a hard throwing pitcher as a kid. You got drafted by the White Sox right out of high school and spent four years in pro baseball, playing in places like Bristol, Virginia and Great Falls, Montana. How would you describe the experience.
It was an unbelievable, valuable experience for me, like coming out of high school in Azel, you know, dealing with the story you just heard about my mom and having even before that happened, and you know, I lived in like really bad trailer. We had roaches, like we just we didn't have a lot of money. So I grew up real poor. And then I got drafted in baseball in the seventh round. So I'm thinking I'm going to the big leagues. I'm going to be an All Star. And I was. I was talented. I mean I had
the potential to, but I didn't have the mindset. You know, I was eighteen years old and never even really been out of the city. And then I go play minor League Baseball, and I'm traveling around on buses and the minor leaguers don't make any money whatsoever. I had a little bit of a signing bonus, but you know, I
thought I was rich at that time. But I think my signing bonus was one hundred and twenty thousand, which to me, it was like, I'm rich, you know, but you know, big picture wise, that's not that's not going to sustain me for my whole life. But I learned, like it was a great experience getting to meet a lot of different people. Being a professional athlete eighteen years old,
I learned a lot of valuable lessons. And then once I got fired in baseball because I couldn't throw strikes and I just I didn't have like any training as a kid, so that was my only training.
It was professional.
And I've heard the two worst players, and I would believe in the two worst players you can coach or that are the players that don't do anything you say, and then the player that does everything you say, like exactly.
I was. I was the kid that did everything they said.
Exactly, which you know, sometimes you know, coaches are great sometimes, but sometimes coaches say some things that are more like, you know, maybe it doesn't fit you as well, and you got to you know, be respectful, but say you know that that's not gonna work for me that well, like I need to, I need to stick with some
of the stuff that got me here. So when I when I got fired from baseball, and that's probably be the next question, but I really took a lot of valuable lessons about you know, like not and I was worried about what everybody else was doing. Like so once I let once that happened, I was like, I'm not worried about what anybody else is doing.
And I'm not.
I'm not, you know, I'm rooting for everybody. There's more than enough to go around for everybody, because when you're in baseball, it's so individual. I caught myself like, you know, want you know, like if somebody's out there pitching, I was like, if they were doing well, I was like, man, if he's doing well, he's gonna get called up.
And I'm not, which is a terrible mindset.
You know.
I should have been rooting for that guy and trying to like learn learn things as much as I could and and just not taking a lot of craft from people, not being disrespectful, but also like being confident, you know, Like I just learned how to be confident and make sure I had no regrets on anything else I did. So after I got fired in baseball, it's like I've not had any regrets. Nobody's out working me. I'm always going to be the guy that works hard on everybody else.
And because I'm if if like it's NFL coaching, if it didn't work out, I'm still gonna hold my head up because I know I'm doing everything I possibly can to be a great coach and to help the tight ends as much as I can.
You use the term fired as opposed to cut or released. Is there a reason?
Yeah, I don't like to, you know, I'm pretty like blunt with things like I don't like to sugarcoat things like I mean, it's just my own personal thing, like like when I was playing the NFL, Like I didn't retire from the NFL. I got fired and then nobody else hire me, Like I don't. I'm not trying to like make myself feel better of anything. It's like, you know, that's just part of life, you got, you know, and it just like keeps me motivated. Because you don't want
to get fired. And I've been fired multiple times, been fireding baseball and even even playing it. Playing football, I got fired a couple of times, and then coaching, I've already been you know, a couple of spots. And I just don't, you know, like I know some people say that they got released or and it's you know, it's just semantics. But I just want to make you know. I don't know why it is. But she's like, I just don't want to.
I want to. I'm trying. I always how to be.
Humble and and I think sometimes just being open about what really is happening, I think it helps other people sometimes be more like you know, sometimes bad things happen and you move on and make the best of it.
So after four years of minor league baseball, when you realize you're not going to the big leagues, what were your options in your own mind?
I mean, I had my my I got married at twenty one to my high school sweetheart and we've been married seventeen years, be eighteen years in December, and so I got so we got married, and then two weeks later I got fired in baseball.
So I'm like, oh, man, like, you know, hopefully she doesn't leave me.
She she didn't likely, but my mindset was, I know, I knew I was going to go to college.
That's why I was.
I was willing to get you know, I got drafted high school, so I was willing to go play minor league Baseball's because I knew, worst case scenario, I get fired, I'm still going to go to college and graduate and get a degree, and you know, you go into the workforce and you know, make money and have a job, have a career. I knew I was gonna do that. I knew I was just enough to do that. So after I got done with baseball, I was like, well, I know I'm gonna go to college, and I know
I'm like an athletic guy. I've always worked out hard and I've always been in good shape. I was a good high school football player. I just got hurt my senior year. I had two surgeries my senior on my knee during the season, and I still played the last game.
That's why I tell the tit ends a lot of times, like just to like it's about toughness, lesson and I and I saw guys that played that I played with in high school that went on to play college football, and I was like, well, if I know I'm gonna go to college, I have all my eligibility left, so why not play football like I'm I was just you know, we were talking before about just self efficacy, just a lot of belief in myself that, you know, and just
watching watching when I was playing minorleagu baseball, just watching college football and be like I I could do that if I if I if baseball didn't work out. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna I want to I'm going to go to college, so you know I'm gonna play football too.
So and nobody was contacted me. Obviously.
It's been you know, I've been in high school like four years and I didn't really have any film. But another adage like you know, you you know, you gotta you always need help regardless what you're doing, and it doesn't hurt to ask, you know. So the only way you can get information out to college is like just to send them things to go talk to them and call them. And so I filled out like every questionnaire
from any college in Texas and out of state. I sent like these this envelope full of my information and and just silly stuff like I took a picture my wife took a picture of myself in my tights, and I thought it was douchey, but but I saw I was just watching TV and I saw in the combine they do it.
So I was like, well, and I knew I was like as a baseball player.
So a lot of these college coaches are probably gonna think I'm, you know, out of shape person or like real skinny guys. So like I need a showing I'm in good shape. And that's really what got me the opportunity. Long, long story, but so I I just send that information everywhere because I was going to go to college and I was gonna see, well, if I'm gonna go, maybe I can get a I didn't even know how scholarships work, but I was like, maybe I can get a ten percent scholarship or something.
I didn't even.
Realize it was like full scholarships until I got the scholarship and I went to I went to junior colleges, Tarleton, I went to everywhere, and no one was They were like, yeah, we'd love for you to walk on, which is understandable because I hadn't played in four years and I really
and I was on like a triple option offense. But long, long story, but Rice took a chance on me and gave me a scholarship to play defense, and I was I jumped on it like right away and I didn't and realizing it was a full scholarship and Rice's unbelievable university.
And so on.
You know, Once that happened, my life kind of really like took a one eighty right there.
Like I was like, okay, I.
Got an opportunity, and I was like, I am, this is not going to pass me by. And I was like a mad man in college, like in a good way, but I was.
I was.
All I did was football in school, like just NonStop, and I worked out and it led to like successful the field, and then I got opportunity to play.
Then did your teammates even really get to know you considering how focused you were?
No?
No, I mean justin Hill, our running best coach was the same year as me in college, and you know, now, you know, we've known each other since college and we've talked and we stayed in connections. But I was, I didn't go out with the team at all. I didn't go at any parties. I didn't, but I was also you know, I was I wasn't like being a jerk to anybody, and I was just doing my job and trying to help any wherever I could. And I just
so focused on just winning. I wanted to win, you know, and I wanted to be the best I could possibly be. That I think and credits, I mean, unbelievable just experience at Rice, because everybody there, they didn't treat I was day one, I was oldest on the team, and I was the only married gall on the team, like the first day I got on campus on football, on the football team, and they just they didn't treat me any differently.
And I was twenty three, I think my freshman year married, you know, like I'm not.
I'm just I wasn't. I was kind of and with what.
Happened to my mom with getting fired in baseball. So I was a mature twenty three year old, like I was they you know, I was kind of almost acting like I am now a little bit.
I was more as a thirty nine year old.
You know, you get mature as you get older and you kind of start understanding what's important. So I was a mature person like I was basically a professional football player playing in college, and but they were they were They respected me, they didn't treat men differently, and and you know, even though I didn't hang out with them off the field, they still they still knew I cared, and they knew I was working hard and I was trying to help whatever way I could, and and I
eventually started doing well on the field. So then then doing great on the field makes everything better. So then they all just accepted me. And it was and I still stand, you know, contact with a lot of those players. And then I played with at Rice and it was
a you know, it really just an amazing experience. I went in the Hall of Fame at Rice this last this offseason or really before he played the forty nine ers, and I was one of the most memorable experiences I've had, getting around my former teammates and coaches and and just thinking back to it, because you know, it's hard to reminisce in life sometimes because you're just focused on the
next step. But when something like that happens, getting into the Hall of Fame of your college, you kind of you can't help, but like thinking back, and it really just like just unbelievable memories of getting going from baseball to college football. I only played there two years, my true freshman, true sophomore year, and just what I was able to accomplish in those two years is really it's just amazing it. But it wouldn't happen if I didn't have,
like everything, a lot of great people around me. I had a lot, like a lot of great help, a lot of great teachers, coaches, you know, teammates that were at Rice and at Azel and at you know, everywhere, And I've just had great people around me and great coaches around me to help me, and I've kind of just been really blessed to be in great situations.
You got moved from defense to offense at Rice and had two tremendous seasons your final year one hundred and eleven catches for more than thirteen hundred yards, fifty seven rushes for two hundred and forty one more. You're listed as a tight end. But how would you describe your position at Rice?
Yeah, I was.
I mean, it's a long story about how I kind of got in those situations. But I started off as a linebacker and then the second day they moved me to a defensive end. So I played defensive end the whole spring, and because I got there in the spring and I was probably gonna be the starting defensive end, but I kept staying after practice each spring practice and like playing catch to show the coaches that I could
throw really well. Because when I was trying to recruit myself to college, I was I was trying to be a quarterback, because you know, obviously I drafted in baseball. It's a picittuer like I could throw the ball. I could throw the ball well, and and I just kept kind of showing them like I was. I wasn't being disrespectful. I was like, hey, I think I was just being honest, like I'm not I can play defense, and I think
I would have been a really good defensive player. But I was like, I think I could help this team better if I w on offense, Like if that's what I've done my whole life.
I've always been you know, even.
When I was a little kid, I was like the running back or and so I was trying to show them that I think I could help on offense, and they eventually moved me to quarterback. So I went from defensive end all spring, and then after spring they moved me to the quarterback position during the some so the whole team was like, what are you were just playing defense, Sven, now you're the quarterback.
Like it's just you know, it never happens like that.
But and because the way that happened too, I just kept showing them I could throw being respectful. And then they would have seven on seven tournaments during the or games during the summer, and they'd be working on their stuff and I'd always just go out with the offense and just kind of just stand there and watch and try to learn. And a couple of times the running back didn't show up so he had school or something, so they would just put.
Me in there.
And even though it's a defensive end, I'd play some running back for our offense during seven on seven stuff, and I just kind of got around those guys and just almost still doing defensive men stuff. And then eventually the coaching staff, you know, gave me an opportunity to do so when we came back from fall camp, I
moved to quarterback. And then we had some receivers get hurt in training camp, so the backup quarterbacks are the only ones that knew all the offense, you know, like halfway through training camp, so they're like, hey, we need you guys to go out there and.
Do some receiver stuff.
So then I showed up at practice doing receiver stuff and the team was like, now you're doing receivers.
You have a defense simended quarterback to receiver.
And I did a really good job at receiver and the receivers coach started liking what I was doing, so then he you know, I was kind of like bouncing back and forth from positions. And I still stayed in the quarterback room the whole time there, and I would learn the quarterback stuff. But we had a great quarterback, Chase Clement, who I mean his senior year he threw forty four touchdowns seven interceptions, and he was really good, so that, you know, they didn't need me at quarterbacks
how good he was. But they started getting me more involved at at receiver, and then I started doing wildcat quarterback stuff. And then they just kind of started evolving where I started doing all kinds of stuff like and they I mean, credit to them. That's the advantages of being in a place like rights. They gave me a lot of opportunities to do a bunch of different stuff. And the main reason why, I think because I was willing to do it, and mainly is because of the
baseball didn't work out. So I was like, this is not I don't care what I gotta do. I returned punts just because I was like, I can do this. But we had a guy, you know, that wasn't doing a great job pumper turning. I just started going back there. I started catching the punt, and eventually they just let me do in games. So I started being the pumper turner. I was a holder on field goal. I was like backup punter, backup snapper. I played, you know, wildcat, quarterback
of punch. I played a little bit of tight end. I really didn't even do tight end much. But I played receiver. You know, I just played everywhere just because I wanted to win so bad. I wanted to make sure this opportunity was not gonna pass me by. And and I wasn't afraid, and I wasn't scared. I wasn't I believed in myself. I believed I could help, and so any opportunity I jumped at it, no matter what
it was. And eventually they started put me in the games, and then I started doing great job in the game and it just kind of took off from there.
You turned pro after two years at Rice and were drafted in the fifth round by the Houston Texans. After all you had been through. What was it like to get that phone call?
I mean, I was pissed at the time, because I was very confident that. I mean, I had one hundred and eleven catches and like thirteen or yards, and I had like you know, you know, I carried the ball as a runner and you know, in the wildcat quarterback and I played running back to a little bit. So like I feel like I had like an amazing year
in college football. I was only that true sophomore, and I looked a right, I'm watching around college football and I'm you know, everybody does when you go into the draft, you know, you go to the combine, You're looking to see who all the other tight ends are, and I'm like, I'm very confident that I'm better than a lot of those guys. But the draft comes and I'm getting, you know, I don't know where I have, which number of tight end I was drafted, But the Texans drafted a tight
end in the fourth round that same year. And once they did that, I was like, this is unbelievable. It's like, what else do I got to do?
You know?
Like I did everything. I knew everything a new quarterback, I knew running back, a new receiver. I played every position, I played punt returns like that. Obviously I'm showing that I'm a good player and I'm a value I can do something for your NFL team. But I didn't get draft, you know, and I see now as NFL coach because I really didn't get to play tight end in college,
so I didn't really show them that. And I couldn't play any All Star games because I was underclassman, so they had a lot of questions on me if I could block or not. So I was and then they the Texans drafted a guy and I lived like a mile from the stadium at the time because I was going to college at Rice, right next to the right run in Houston.
So I was mad.
I was like, man, what is going on? But so they drafted got a fourth round. Then they drafted me in the fifth round. So then I was like, okay, I got drafted. I was mad because I'll believe to myself but I was still extremely grateful just to you know, like I got drafted in baseball and then football, so I was, you know, it's like I'm entitled or anything. I was just you know, mad at that I you know, I wasn't valued as much as what you know, I thought I was.
But day one, you know, I couldn't. I enjoyed it for like a day.
But then I was like, I'm a fifth round pick and they drafted their fourth round tight end. It's like for me to make this team is going to be really difficult. And being an older you know guy, I was like, I understand, like getting drafted doesn't me anything. You know, you got to get on the fifty three minute roster. I'm not a first round pick.
I'm not. I got to make the team.
So I was just dead set on and I never even played tight end really, so I had to show that I could play tight end. So I had to learn, you know, like I didn't really I never even got a three point stances in college. I had to learn how to get into three point stands. I had to learn how to block.
I had to show that I was tough because I was a pass catcher in college. I didn't block a lot.
And that's what I'm really most proud of about NFL wise, is that I came in as a you know, I caught one hundred eleven passes.
I'm a pass catcher guy.
But then you know, after my career Kep, you know, after the first couple of years, then I was more. I transitioned more like a blocker guy. I played fullback, played special teams. So I completely changed my game because I learned early on in training camp that first, you know, that first week, you know, like they're not They're not throwing me the ball, Like I'm not catching the ball. Here we got Andre Johnson, we got we know, we got all these really good players, Like I'm not going
to catch the ball. So I'm like, I need to find ways to make myself valuable. So I was like, I gotta be special teams was number one. I's like, I got to be show that I'm tough and I can play special teams. And then I got I got to show I can play full back, I could be tough, I can do a lot of different things so I can make the team. And kind of like Drew does for us a little bit, like he does all kinds of stuff. He just shows that he's valuable and helps the team out in a lot of ways that are
like that. People don't realize, but in the football team, the coaches and the players, they realize how important those things are. And I mean, it was amazing that I got you know, I was. I did enjoy it, you know, I was like this unbelievable. I got drafted in football. And my wife didn't even know I was good at football, you know, like going into Rice. She she we started dating as a junior, and you know, I kind of
got hurt. I didn't really play a lot of football and I didn't really even get recruited in college, which is I don't know how I didn't. I don't know what these what those recruiters are doing. But so and then when I told her when I got fired in baseball, I told her I was gonna play college football. She you know, she was great with it, but I'm sure in her mind she was like, Okay, well I hope this.
And then all of a sudden, I'm great and I go to the NFL and she's like, I'm like, I see howney, you need to believe me.
Sometimes I am pretty good.
So you lasted seven years in the NFL with Houston, Philly and Denver. What did you love most about being an NFL player?
The you know the reason why I'm coaching. I love the I love everything about football. I mean it is to me, it's like one of the greatest things on earth is that you get all these different people together and it's a true team sport where everybody, you know, on offense, we get eleven guys out there, All eleven those guys got to do their job and got to be If one guy doesn't do it right, that could
completely kill the play. And there's so much strategy that goes into it that, you know, I wish some of the fans and people could see how much goes into like the past protection stuff, how much goes into the run game stuff, and the different you know angles the defensive ends are playing, and how the linebackers play and special teams.
What kind of return are they doing? Like who's going to be blocking me? What kind of guy is that?
Is?
He?
Big? Big guys? He quick?
Like there's just so much strategy involved and there and it's like you can you get you get it, you can get out what you put in in football, if you're tough and you're physical, and you have technique and you and you know what you're doing, you play hard and you can make yourself a good player.
And it's it's a lot of like correlations to life.
You know, there's a lot you can everybody's got to work together and you can you get out what you put in. So I just love the entire game of football. So I that's why I got into coaching. I just loved everything about it, like just the locker room, the teammates, like doing doing you know, you do a really good job on a play and everybody's congratulating you because you help the team do something good, Like you're helping you know, you're like Zach talks about a lot, You're you're being
a part of something that's bigger than just you. You're fighting adversity together. You're you're tight knit. You go on the road, you know, there's fifty three of us and there's you know, maybe seventy thousand of them, and it's just you against all you against that entire city basically, like just the feeling of that and then being at home and all the fas you know, your home home crowd,
everybody's coming. They they you just appreciation of you know, people can do whatever they want to, you know, throughout the day. And then on Sunday, a lot of people in Cincinnati choose to come to our stadium and watch us play. They take that out of their day. So it's like, you know the fact that they chose to come here and watch us play, and and just it just it's a special feeling and and you know, for them, for everybody that comes, like, you know, we put work.
We work hard on what we do, Like we're studying. We're the tight ends, especially that they got to know so much stuff. And we're trying to you know, put on a show. And we're trying to win. We're trying to win for the city, we're trying to win for each other. We're trying to you know, just anything. We're trying to be successful. You want to win anything. You're competitive, and football is the most competitive NFL for sure, it's the most competitive thing out there. So I love being competitive.
I'm trying to win and I want to try to maximize everything, you know, maximize everything within my human you know, potential. And no better way to test yourself than NFL football just like your job, you know, like it's it's the best of the best. And if you you know, if you think you're good, well you got to you got to see how good you are, you know, going against the NFL guys.
Before we started doing this, I gave you a quick explanation for what we're going to do, and you say, yeah, that's fine.
But I got to talk about my guys.
What is it about you and your relationship with your tight end group there?
I mean I love that I that I'm I mean, I played tight end, but the fact that I get to coach tight ends in the NFL, it's like it's it's I wish, I wish like fans and I wish, you know, everybody could kind of see how these guys are, like how how smart they are, how driven they are, how how much work they put in, how unselfish they are. Just they're good people, you know, and you have you have to be to be a tight end in the NFL.
You got to be you got to be really really smart.
Like there's so much stuff they got to know on each play, and they got to know everything. They got to know all the routes, all the run game blocking, all the pass protection stuff. You've got to be tough because you're always going against guys that are you know, you're going against Miles Garrett and TJ.
Watt.
You're going to get all these guys and you've got to be really tough. So you got and you got to be versatile. You got to do all these different things, and you got to be unselfish because you don't get a lot of credit for anything. And I talked to him all the time about it's like, you know, you can't. You can't be a type of guy that like needs, you know, credit. You know, you just need to do your job because you want to do your job because
you want to win. You're a competitive person. The coaches understand, your teammates understand. But you don't need appreciation from any kind of media or any kind of fans because like, you're not doing it for that. You're doing it because you want to win, because you want to be good at what you do and you want to help us, you know, be great.
And my guys are unbelievable.
I mean, all five of my guys in my room or they're extremely intelligent, they're extremely tough, they care, they're good people like you don't you don't see you know, hopefully you haven't seen hardly anything from from these tight ends, where like they seem like.
They're bad people at all.
They're unbelievable people and they they're like, you know, I'm selfish as a tight end coach, but I think tight ends are like some of the top notch people in the world because as far as men go, because they got to be you gotta be un selfish, you got to be driven, you gotta be tough. Like if you're a business and you're a CEO of a business, you know, I would recommend if you need somebody to hire, like I would look at tight ends first because they're gonna
do a good job. Like all my guys here, any if they wanted to do anything else in life, whatever they want to do, if if that, if that's what they want to do, they they're going to be successful at it just because they're they're they're that type of people. And they and and we we got to do so many different things. And there's four of those guys out there right now playing and they all get opportunities and they all do all different things. And and I'm involved
in everything as far having to coach those guys. But I can't say enough about how just good at people they are and how hard they work. And like you know, true sample all the stuff he does in the pass protection and run game and Er Smith, you know, being unselfish and you know, being a versatile guy.
They could do all different things.
And Tannered like coming in from you know, probably nobody knew who he was. And now he's making some catches and and he works his tail off. And Mitchell Wilcox, undrafted guy, he's play special teams. He blocks hard, he played you know, you watch him on film, you know, watch him after the snap like he is going after people.
He's a tough, tough guy.
And then Zach Zach Gentry, the newer guy we got from the Steelers. Like he's just on Price Coote right now, but you don't ever see him, know he's None of these guys get any poopoo face. And I feeling sorry for themselves. They just showed her up to work every day, the same guy. And they they they don't give me a lot of crap. They know I care too though that they know I'm not trying to, you know, just mf them. For no reason, like I'm I'm trying to
help him and that you know, we're working together. So I mean, they're unbelievable people. So hopefully if the fans out there get a chance they ever see him, you know, they would love to talk to you, and media too, they would love to talk to you, but they don't need that, you know, So don't talk to him too much. Don't get him feeling good, film too good about themselves. They're great people and it's I'm I love each say coming to work because of the guys that I'm coaching.
A few wild card topics to wrap things up with James Casey, who is your all time favorite athlete in any sport? And why No One Ryan?
Just his grit, his longevity, like and he's you know, he's the same type of guy he wasn't about you know, you don't you didn't see No One Ryan like really you know, being a humble guy. He wasn't just trying to self promote himself. And that's another thing about my tight ends too, is like they don't you don't see these guys like trying to overly self promote themselves too much and they're just about their business.
And they're but knowing Ryan.
Was just I mean growing up in Fort Worth area and when he was playing for the Rangers, like being able to like see him and you know that and I was a baseball player, like and when he when he beat up ron Ventura, like you can't beat that, Like he's he's he's like the pinnacle for me as far as like my guy, I mean, I love all I just watched Barry Sanders' documentary, Like I love that guy too, just unselfish guy like didn't want credit, didn't
he like was turning down like chances to like break records, just because he didn't want all the attention. He didn't want it to be about him. He was just about football, Like you don't. You don't hear anything about him off the field, the kind of things Like guys like that are the guys that I love.
The guys that were great athletes, but they're not like it's not about them.
They just they love they they're great because they love the actually they love the sport. They love competing, they love like winning, they love being a part of something bigger than themselves. Like those are the guys I love, Like I love watching those guys and just hearing, hearing when when those guys speak, those are the guys I really want to listen to.
How do you feel about procrastination?
I mean, everybody, everybody has it, but I try to be you know, you have to be in coaching tight ends that you have to be like on top of stuff.
But I just try to be really intentional. So I don't. I hate procrastinating.
But I also as I've gotten older and a friend of mine, at Rice, he gave me a valuable lessening about outsource all your non core functions. So I'm like, I only do like a couple of things. I do football in my family and you know, faith, Like that's all I do.
So I don't. I don't like waste a lot of time.
I'm when I'm driving into work, I'm listening to some kind of audiobook or podcast I'm working out. It's I'm always listening to something I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to I just want to live like that. I want to try to maximize it. I want to try to learn as much as I can. I'm just always curious about not just football, just everything. I want to learn things I want to you know, how however long I got on this earth, I want to try to learn as much as I possibly.
Can and experience as much as I can.
And I've got two boys now that are that are thirteen and ten, so a lot of it is I'm trying to learn as much as I can so I can help them when they get older, like I try. I'm trying to like write a book to my kids, just because I realize as a coach, I'm talking to my players like all day every day, and I don't even get a chance to talk to my kids as much.
So I like, well, okay, I'm going to start writing down everything that I think is important for them, and then when they get in high school, I'm going to give it to them and say this is what I'm my beliefs on, you know, like integrity, like my beliefs on like attitude and respect, my beliefs on kindness, my my beliefs on like have an extreme accountability on things and how important that is, and having worthwhile goals like you know, you can't it's hard to do something if
you're not you know, if you don't know what you want to do, Like you got to know what you want to do first you got to know and know you know, and then you can put all.
Your attention towards that.
And like most things in life, like I don't like procrastinating because it's just like I just have my mindset on one thing and I just try to outlast everybody and try to do it hard on nobody else and try to outlast everybody.
And that's and.
It's hard for kids. But I'm trying to explain to my boys, like you guys need to be thinking every day and to the tight ends too, you be thinking every day about what you're going to do after football, because if you don't know what you want to do, like you're just going to be randomly just wandering around.
Like you got to have.
You need to be exact about what you want to do, and then the only thing that's not exact is just say or something better.
You know.
It's like I want to like me, I want to be a I want to coach. I want to keep rising up. I want to hopefully be a head coach one day.
And I'm not.
Picking like a specific place, you know, it could be anywhere. I just want to get in the you know, reach the highest level I can. But I know what I want to do, so all my time is spend on football and that's it. And then I'm trying to explain that to my kids. And I know a long answer you aspect procrastination, I'm not a maniact. I mean, I
procrastin out some things. But when it's like the important things, I try to, you know, make sure I'm just try to be really really focused and conscious of what I'm doing and just get get those things done. But I procrastinate all kinds of stuff that's not like the most important things to me.
Describe the experience of watching your two boys play sports.
The best experience in the world is that.
I mean, you know, we go out here and we played you know, money not football last last week, and you know, it's exciting and it's you know, you're out there on money now. You know, millions of people are watching, you know, all these celebrities or you know, the announcers and all this stuff. But that is nothing compared to like going and watching a select baseball game of your own kid. You know, you baseball game is of your own son, is like a thousand times better than what
it would be like watching money not football. Even though I love the tight ends. I love them, you know, like that's that's below it, but it's still way below it as opposed to my own kids, like there's that's my The biggest thing I look forward to is watching them play sports and seeing them grow. And and it's stressful too because we know as men, you know, we're older men now, we know all the pitfalls that can happen.
We know all the things that are going through our mind, through our life, and the things that we, you know, did that was dumb, Like everybody does dumb things.
We know all those things.
We know that they're going to go through that too, and you know, I'm just hope they don't do the really really dumb things, especially nowadays. We got we hit like the World History jackpot because we didn't have cell phones and we were kids. We didn't have everybody taking pictures of everything. We didn't have social media, so we were able to grow mature before that stuff came about. So we know, we don't we know not to let
that ruin our lives. You know, we're not worried about likes and who comments on our posts and stuff, but their age, that's like their whole life. Like I'm just to try to make sure they understand that who cares what somebody says on social media? Like who cares what some celebrity is doing? Like it's not important, Like it's
you know, focus on what's really important. But it's stressful, but it's the most fun ever is watching the kids and watching them play sports, watching you know, watching them how they grow and develop, and like seeing their personalities, and it's fair. I talked to about tight Ends about
of the bunch. You know, I catch myself a lot of times talking about my own kids, just because, you know, I thought, when you're you know, you finally become a dad, it's like you're teaching the kids everything and I'm trying to but they teach me a lot of stuff too.
Final question, This one's kind of deep. If you could meet anybody in history, living or deceased, who would that person be?
Oh easiest question ever Jesus Christ, for sure. I mean, I just I'm thirty nine. I try to be well, well thought out about everything, and I wasn't very religious until recently till this last off season, where I said, Okay, my kids are going to school and they're going to Catholic school, and I was like I always believe in the Creator because I'm like, no way this just came about randomly from cells. Like everything's way too order and too structured, and there's way too much things that makes
sense for it to just be random. So I was like, I need to learn about this, and I didn't. My parents never you know, took me to church. You know, I grew up real port we did. That was not a part of our life. And so as an adult, as an even in high school, it's like I was hearing some of things, like for the first time. I
finally said, Okay, I'm I'm gonna study this. And I've read like eight books this off season about Christianity and like the very beginning and the economical councils and like the history history of it and how it all in Apostolic secession, like all the different like the Great Schism in ten fifty four, the Process Reformation, the fifteen hundreds, when Martin Luther knowed that THESS up against the Catholic like I studied it, like knew it, not know it,
but I studied it. And now I'm a believer, so that, you know, I would love to just you know, talk to talk to Jesus. You know you can probably give me some wisdom on some things and probably calm me down a little bit on some things too.
This has been really enjoyable. I took more of your time than I said I would, but I really appreciate it and best the left the rest of the year.
Thank you. Have great day.
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