Bengals Booth Podcast: It Starts Now

rest of us about Joe Burrow. Then, for the first time in a few weeks, it's my broadcast partner Dave Lapham as he answers my questions and yours. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by Prime Sport, the official fan, travel and hospitality partner of the Cincinnati Bengals. And here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or

pod Bean. It's the greatest thing since the way I heard at podcast with Mike Rowe You know Microw, the host of Dirty Jobs on the Discovery Channel and the deep voiced pitchman for Ford truck commercials. I recently became aware of a podcast that he's been doing for about four years called The Way I Heard It. If you're old enough to remember radio legend Paul Harvey and his now you know the rest of the Story features, this podcast is very similar. They're short stories with a clever

twist at the end. The writing is great and Micro's vocal presentation is nothing short of magnificent. The stories are less than ten minutes long and you'll love them. So check out The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe wherever you get your podcasts Now, let's get to football. Last year, I purchased The Football Outsider's Almanac for the first time, and did it somewhat reluctantly. In my mind, I pictured it being mostly a book of in depth stats, and while I like that stuff, I already get plenty

of data from Pro Football Focus and elsewhere. Well Man, was I wrong. The Football Outsider's Almanac is more than five hundred pages long, and while it definitely includes a lot of statistical analysis, the writing is great and it's filled with snarky humor. It includes in depth previews for all thirty two NFL teams and the Bengals chapter this year was written by Robert Weintraub, who also covers the

team for Cincinnati Magazine. I spoke to Robert this week. Robert, I guess your feelings about Joe Burrow can be summed up by this sentence that you wrote in Cincinnati Magazine. Quote pure awesomeness, oozing out of his every pore, don't hold back. Yeah, did I oversell it? We there? I think anything? I feel like I understand. Yeah, it was amazing. I remember I went to the LSU Oklahoma semi final.

I live in Atlanta. He was here, and I was just a quiver, I guess you'd say at all times, and by halftime I was just yelling for them to take Burrow out so he wouldn't get injured, and just I want him to go directly into the Bengal lineup. Right at that point, there's no doubt he provides, you know, a boost of excitement and optimism that we haven't felt in the Bengal land and sometimes so what else is

there to say? You know, we can only hope that any of that translates to the NFL, especially in this bizarre, you know, offseason that we've had, and hopefully we even have a season. But I guess we'll put that that note of pessimism aside and just, you know, hope that

Joe translates as we think he should. He has all the traits, you know, he certainly has the mind for the game, and he's His statistical numbers at LSU were off the charts, both counting and what we call analytical numbers over here at Football Outsiders, so you know, he's We have a projection system that is called q base, and he had the second highest of all time for any starter with less two or fewer years of starting.

The only one ever was Alex Smith. Alex Smith who best to him, But he had a higher projection than the likes of Cam Newton and even to attack of Violoa, who would be compared to no doubt throughout his career. So and I think he certainly projects as a higher possibility than even Alex Smith. So if we can get that kind of career out of Joe, it would be you know, it would be great, and you know, sky's

the limit. We can dream even higher than that. Hopefully if they ever get a chance to play ball again. Nobody wants to see their teams starting eleven and go to and fourteen, but ultimately was bottoming out the best thing long term for this franchise. I don't think there's any doubt about it, right, I mean where would six and ten have gotten them? Absolutely nowhere? Maybe even yet

another year of Andy Dalton. I mean nothing against Andy, but we couldn't have had yet another year spinning the wheels, right. I mean maybe you could argue that, okay, you bought them out this year coming up, and then you have another three or four quarterbacks who are potentially franchise quarterbacks, I guess, but you know you have a chance at one,

you grab them and you don't look back. And I think there's no doubt they really the three games that you know, Andy didn't start this past year and Ryan Finley was in there wound up being the most important three games in the season, probably because you know, who knows what happens if Dalton starts those games, and maybe the Bengals finish four and twelve, and we're all trying to talk ourselves into Justin Herbert right about now, you know,

so I don't think there's any question. If you're going to be a bad team, there's no benefit and being a sort of a bad team just being all the way a bad team, and that just doesn't go for Joe Burrow. You know, it makes the whole franchise look in the mirror and make a raft of changes, which obviously they did in many other places, not just a quarterback. So I think that's overall for the best spinning their wheels had been done for about four year years and

it was enough already. We're talking to Robert Weintraub, who wrote the Bengals chapter in this year's Football Outsiders Almanac. I want to talk about free agency. The Bengals obviously went all in DJ reader, Trey Wayne's and six others. You wrote something that I hadn't seen anywhere else, and that is that the Bengals are basically one year behind the Packers, an organization that has always stressed draft and development,

and then last year the Packers embraced free agency. They signed Zadarius Smith, they signed Preston Smith and several other guys and wound up going thirteen and three. Do you think the Bengals learned from Green Bay. Yeah, I don't necessarily think they'll go thirteen and three, but I don't think there's any doubt that they saw what the landscape in the NFL looks like now. I think a large part of that is in place because of the new

rules that were put in limiting practice time. You know, there was a period when the Packers and the Bengals were sort of looked at as the models for what to do. You draft and develop, you don't overspend, keep your guys, and that was the very sort of ideal of team building. But now, especially because with such a lack of practice time, a veteran who knows what he's doing out there is sort of more prize than he

had been even a couple of years ago. Now, I don't think there's any doubt that you have to kind of change what the Bengals have been doing. So, you know, so on in terms of ignoring the free agent pool and spending more money to get guys who you can rely on and aren't going to need a whole bunch of coaching into your system and a whole bunch of coaching up just to get to a level of play where you want them to be, only to see them walk out the door, you know, as when they become

free agents. So yes, I do think that they they learned maybe a year after the Packers, and the Packers obviously had Aaron Rodgers that helped them to go thirteen in three. But you know, I look for Cincinnati to improve just on that basis alone. I don't think there's any doubt about it. Their defense was as bad as could be last year. We have a saying called the plexiclass principal in the analytic world, which means that when you're really bad at anything or really good, you tend

to regress toward the mean the following year. So that means that even by just mathematical principles, they should be better next year on defense than they were last year. I don't think there's any doubt that the wholesale changes will improve the team, especially the tackling that he obviously made a lot of these changes with the likes of Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb in mind, and that seems

to be a solid principle to go after. Running the football in the AFC North is more prized than it is elsewhere in the league, and the Bengals couldn't stop it. Last year, the top three players in the entire league who miss tackles by our charting, we're all Bengals. So I mean, that's right right there. It tells y'all need to go. And Jesse Vh and Seawan Williams are two of them. They're back. Nick Vigil was gone. But you know, certainly we'll see the secondary tackle better, take better angles,

you know, use their space more to their advantage. And that's the kind of thing that you know, you really can't necessarily teach in the limited practice time anymore. You just have to have guys who can do it, and hopefully these are the right guys. Well, that's interesting because the three guys they signed his free agents to play in the secondary, Trey Waynes, Mackenzie, Alexander and von Bell were all known for their ability to stop the run.

People worry about Trey Waynes. Is he truly a number one corner? Well, we'll see. But one thing he has proven is the willingness to get in there and tackle people, no question. I mean that that was an undoubted reason they got him. I mean, in terms of just pass covering numbers, him and Drake or Patrick are pretty much identical, but there's no question that Trey Waynes is much more willing tackler and not just do it, does it better, but gets his nose in there much more than Trade.

Trade made a lot of business decisions out there. It seems like, and you know, does he have to be a number one corner. William Jackson still to me has the ability to be that number one corner. And when it came out that he played the entire season basically with a torn labor that sort of explained some of

his kind of indifferent play from time to time. So I think that's and so the Bengals could definitely have improved, And obviously mentioned von bell An outstanding run stopper Mackenzie Alexander as well, although the car's Darky's Denard we should point out also had very good run stopping numbers and played injured and seems like he's possibly available for you know future is signing if it need be, could play that Chris Crocker role maybe down then down the fairway here.

If he's still unsigned, he could come back and help out. He's said, certainly a good run support player. Yeah, for those who missed it, he did sign in the off season with Jacksonville, but then failed the physical. So he's still outright, Yeah, and I wouldn't be shocked if he came back, certainly as injuries mounter, you know, things happened

in this bizarre offseason that we're in. Uh, you know, he'd probably go with you know, I don't know if there's some behind the scenes issue that would prevent him from doing that, but to the outsider, it would seem like a natural fit for him to come back and play. We said, on a limited basis. We are chatting with Robert Weintrauba writes about the bank to Cincinnati Magazine Football outsiders and others. You mentioned reduced practice time and reduced

practice contact. Well, this year, no OTAs, no mini camps in the off season for Joe Burrow, no private workouts with receivers. Now it looks like no preseason games. What do you think that's going to mean for Joe Burrow?

I mean it can't be good, right obviously, I do think if you're talking and I have no mathematical precise basis to base this on, but if you're talking about any quarterback out there who you would like to see in the situation like that, certainly, Burrow looks like he's the mature, kind of go for a guy who you would handle something like that as best as possible. But

obviously it's it's not an ideal situation. He's not really ever thrown to AJ Green, you know, in any real capacity until they show up a training camp, and who knows what that's going to look like. I mean, it's entirely possible. The first time he ever throws a past aj Green would be in the first game of this season, with no fans in the stands, and who knows what else is going on. So it's a bizarre situation obviously

all around. But you know, if you're going to have a guy, one thing that set Joe apart from not just all his competitors this past year, but pretty much everybody we've seen in college football and the last decade two decades was his you know, Joe cool if you will, His incredible ability to just shut out everything around him, make plays and put his team in the best situations possible. And that's that's a maturity that's rare. He's a coaches kid.

He knows what, he knows what's going on. He's been in touch with the Bengals coaching staff. This entire process, I feel like. So if anybody can make lemonade out of his particular lemon tree, you Joe Burrow. Robert. I mentioned that you wrote the Bengals season preview in the Football Outsiders Almanac this year, mine is on the way. I can't wait to get it. I courchesed it for the first time last year, and I can't stress enough to foot all fans how awesome it is. Not only

is the data great, but the writing is entertaining. And you did not write last year's Bengals preview, but I want to read how it ended. This is slightly paraphrased final sentence. The next step is probably for Zach Taylor to determine what does and doesn't work over sixteen games, then let the roster blood letting begin. So that's basically exactly how it played out. So what's the next step

this year? I think it's an obvious sort of you still see what you have and what's just put aside all the pandemic slash who knows what's going to happen issues of it aside. This approach you from a normal season. From Zach Taylor's point of view, and that would be still you know, see what works with Joe Burrow, See what he likes to do best, See how the new

arrivals mesh in what capacity they work best. Maybe just some of his strategic tendencies which we saw this year really mirror what he learned under Sean McVeigh in Los Angeles. You know, a ton of three wide receiver one back sets. The Bengals led the league in three wide receiver sets

and a lot of max protection. They were in the top five in max protection and maybe add some more play action into it, which they didn't really do last year, which was a bit of a surprise, because that's a McVeigh principles for sure, and to take you know, on both sides of the coin, on the defense, well and see what works best, and you know, hopefully you have a quarterback who can make these things work obviously and improve the off ends. Last year, it was just a

battle just to get first downs and occasional points. Let's face it, they were such a struggle to move the ball at times that you almost couldn't do anything except for you know, kind of look towards what you're going to replace this year. You hope to see what, you know, what will be more of a fine tuning process, actually

win some close games. Bengals were winless in one score games, and that's you know, unusual for any team that should bounce back a little bit to learn how to win, learn what works best, obviously improve, maybe even sniff a playoff first with the expanded playoffs. But listen, not dream too big, and then use the year three as the year and year two of Joe Burrow as your kind

of go forward year. That's when your window really opens, and hopefully you'll have foundation that you can really build upon and you know, look for a championship level team for the immediate future. After that, there will be dozens of interesting statistical nuggets and this year's almanac. You've shared

a few things so far in this conversation. As you looked at things about the individual players, did anything really catch your eye, maybe explaining why a guy might be better or worse than you thought, Well, what one is stowed out just because everybody else's numbers were so bad,

we're so bad? Was Tyler Boyd's positive numbers and the way that he in the middle of the field was so effective and also just had third down and fourth down high efficiency rates that nobody else on the team came anywhere close to as you could imagine, And that speaks a lot for him just as a player and as a guy who can get things done even when he doesn't have the speed on the outside that you know,

you would think he would require. And certainly when there is that kind of player with him, like a J. Green, you know, we forget Green and Boyd have hardly ever really played together, certainly since Boyd has gotten to be

the tyler Boyd. We know, Green has been out so and John Ross has mostly been out as well, or in and out of the lineup anyway, so he has hardly ever had a real speed got to take the attention of the defense away from the middle of the field and away from him, so he has been double covered a lot, had a lot of even more than I thought, really a lot of attention paid to him, and still put up not just good counting numbers, but

very good efficiency numbers. And that that was a bit of a surprise and more certainly more impressive to me than I thought it was going to be. You know, there are some other ones that are negative. I was still surprising how little Joe Mixon got used in the passing game. I think that's a real place where they could improve this year coming up. And as we saw in at LSU, Joe Burrow excelled as using the running backs in tight ends in you know, sort of his

open sets and ways to exploit mismatches. So I think you'll see Mixon become much more of a passing threat, and he sort of has to be, especially if he wants to contract, which we all think he does. Robert, you made an interesting observation about T Higgins that I haven't seen anywhere else. Most people compare him to AJ Green, You say Carl Pickens, hopefully with a more cheerful disposition. No offense to Carl. I love pick They'll get me wrong,

but great player, but interesting cat right. It wasn't necessarily the same guy you expected to be off the field, well, t Yeah, comparing him to AJ Green is really doing him a disservice, as it would be the most young receivers. AJ Green came in as an incredibly high end finished product and TJ. T Higgins is not a speed merchant, not nearly the speed merchant that AJ is and was.

This is a guy who you know, is more about catch radius, incredible catch radius at making plays around the ball and surprisingly for his figure, you know, his frame is very large, but he does a great deal after the catch. He's very strong, has great balance. You'll see that he doesn't necessarily run away from guys when he has the ball in the open field. But he's very hard to break down. And that's a sort of an

element that you haven't seen Cincinnati in a while. And I feel like that's a Pickins thing as well, both going up and getting the ball and then once he does, you know, making it hard for the defender to bring him down. AJ just runs either runs right away from guys or gets wide open right off the line. Neither of those things that really t Higgins is strong suits,

but he does have plenty of others. And you know, if you have a guy he stel Earl play in college, he did a lot of back shoulder throws, a lot of throws that let both Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase go up and get balls where only they could get it.

That really plays right into higgins strength and I think you'll see a lot of that and since then this year, hopefully we're chatting with Robert Weintraub, who wrote the Bengals chapter and this year's Football Outsiders, Albanac linebacker play has been lousy in recent years between Josh Bynes and the three draft picks. What are your expectations for that position group? Not especially high just because they're all rookies, like you say,

and Josh Bines will you know, decent players? Really just a journeyman if the most I think he brings is sort of a knowledge of the Ravens offense and maybe some of the moves that Lamar Jackson likes to use, and maybe he'll won't get faked out of his cleat

so easily as some of the other Bengal linebackers had been. Certainly, you know, the likes of Logan Wilson and the other draftees that the pick this year have a great promise, you know, and they're going to be asked to do a lot the aspect of coming straight into the NFL, especially as we've been talking, without any of the offseason ability to learn the scheme and get on the field. That's asking a lot in their first season to really make an impact. That's certainly the impact that they were

required or turn the position group around. I still think Germaine Pratt is the guy who will wind up being the leader of that position and being somebody that you

know takes a step forward this year. Whether he turns into a real stud at the position remains to be seen, but I think he showed toward the end of the last year that he was making great strides, and maybe that's what you'll see from the other rookies as well, sort of a twelve ten to twelve game breaking in period and then that final month really makes steps, and who knows, by this time next year we can be looking at that position as one of strength, for which

would be rare. Obviously, as he said, Cincinnati, we haven't had that in a long time. It has been a while. Here's a question where your head and your heart might have different answer. What would you like to see the Bengals do long term with aj Green and Joe Mixon? Yeah? Indeed, I mean, obviously, just from a pure Bengal fan, you'd

ever want to see guys like that ever leave. You want them to play their entire career in stripes and then go up into that non existent Ring of Fame Hall of Fame ring of honor, whatever you want to call it, and you know, just be lifetime Bengals realistically, and you know, sort of from a team building aspect, I think, certainly in Mixonon's case, you know, are one of our main principles in the analytic world as you

never pay running backs. Certainly not the kind of contract he's going to command, I think, and I pointed this out before, maybe even in the omen Act, that there are some extenuating circumstances with Joe based on the controversy coming out of college and the fact that Bengals took a chance on him and both sides were very aptly

rewarded for that. So there might be a little bit of residual good feeling which might bring his price down to somewhere where you might think, you know, sort of like would you Bernard When they gave him a second contract, it wasn't a bad move because of his age and because of the contract itself, it wasn't a crippling deal. And I don't know that Mixing has said at any point that he's willing to accept something like that, but if he did, you know, there are ways to sign him,

and certainly in the medium term. That would not be a team crushing blow in terms of salary cap, but I'd be surprised if that happened and he just scot move on. Unfortunately, if it comes to that, I don't know that AJ Green is in quite the same situation. I think, even with his age and injury history, if he plays this season and shows the team and the league really that he can make it through an entire season unscathed, I think there'll be plenty of teams bidding

for his services. But he seems to have indicated that Cincinnati would be the place he wants to go, and I think both sides would want to keep him about. You know, both sides want to keep him in Cincinnati. I don't necessarily it's hard to answer without seeing him

played this year. If he's anything like the old AJ, and we have no reason to think he wouldn't be, then you know, I could see where they would give him extent him to at least a competitive deal, and that wouldn't be completely opposed to that necessarily from a pure team building analytical side, But a lot of that depends on how he looks to play. If he's really good, he might price himself entirely out of the Bengals price structure.

You know, he sort of wished to hope for him as a Bengal fan, to have sort of a medium year which shows that he can stay healthy, but not great enough that he's you know, too expensive. I guess it's that's where the heart and the head collide, right in the medium. I want great year and pay the guy too. I mean, you know, and who knows what the future of the salary cap is. You hear a lot of doom and gloom, but then the owners always cry poor. There's always plenty of money when you need

it to be spent in other areas. So you know, if anybody deserves a big contract over and above what you know, certainly other people will get. It's aj green. I don't think there's anything any doubt about that. A couple more questions for Robert Weintraub a great Twitter, followed by the way at Rob Wine w E I N has your hope been restored? I like to think he was never extinguished. That come on, I'm always the eternal

out to this. Uh yeah, there's no question. Like I said at the beginning, just watching Joe Burrow play this entire year and knowing he was pretty much ticketed for since since about Thanksgiving, Uh, it's been you know, it's been at full full flame, you know for a while now. Pandemic be damned. I definitely think you know that the franchise quarterback, as we all know, you know, that's the that's the tide that lifts all boats, right, I mean everything,

not just you play on the field. He'll he'll improve the defense because the offense is better. Who will make the coaching staff look better? And he might even you know, keep the team in Cincinnati when it's all done. I don't want to put too much on the guy's shoulders, but you know, there's a lot of talk about that. You know, if the team continues down the wrong path, who knows what the future will hold in Maybe there's with the stadium lease issue up ahead. Nobody really knows.

The team is influx. And the one thing that certainly takes that, you know, takes that out of play and brings the team into the pride of the civic heart, so to speak, would be a great quarterback and the guy who can look up to you and certainly looks like Joe has everything in that in his positive categories to make that happen, just needs to do it on the field. And you know, I'm certainly I'm certainly optimistic.

I'm cautiously optimistic, I guess you'd say, because I'm a Bengals fan and my hope has been obliterated so often over these years. But at this point I'm definitely optimistic. And that leads to the final question, how did a kid from New York State becomes such a diehard Bengals fan? Yeah? I got no business being a Bengal fan, that's true. And if I become a Jets or Giants fan like everybody else in my neighborhood, I just would have saved myself a lot of psychic anguish over the years. I

suppose maybe maybe Giants. I don't know about Jets. Yeah, that's a good point, and I think what to answer the question, I'm pretty sure they were the Bengals were playing the Jets. You know, I was five, six years old something like that, and you know, you drop in front of the TV and you watch the game, and obviously the Bengals won that day, or maybe their uniforms look cool. I'm not sure, but whatever alchemy goes on

in the little kid's mind. You know, I just said, Okay, that's my team, and uh, you know, I'm stuck to it at plenty of opportunities as supposed to change. But you know you can't do that and be a real fan, right, So I've stuck with the Bengals through thick and mostly thin over these many many years now, and hopefully some of that, some of that loyalty will be rewarded with the dawn of a new era, the Joe Burrow era. Your patients will be rewarded thanks to the quarterback with

awesomeness oozing out of every pore. Indeed myself. Yeah, we have been chatting with Robert Weintraub, who writes about the Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine and the website in addition to writing for Football Outsiders. Plus, you are an author of several books, and you have a new one out now. Tell us about it. Yeah. Thanks. It's called The Divine

Miss Marble. It's about a woman named Alice Marble, who, in addition to being the greatest female tennis player the pre war era, having her illustrious career ended by World War Two, also excelled in a number of off the courts areas, including so she says, and the heart of the book is really a detective story, an espionage mission unless she went on during World War Two and just claimed that she was shot during and had all kinds

of daring do. And I follow her path down a lot of unusual and dark paths to ferret out her story, and it's really quite fascinating. She's a mysterious and amazing woman, even putting all that mystery aside, and somebody who's kind of been forgotten over the years because of just time in sports history and because of her her career was interrupted. But she's an amazing subject and I hope everybody checks

it out. The Divine Miss Marble is the name of the book, and you can get it you know, Amazon, Penguin, Random, random House dot com, or anywhere bookstores are open these days, which hopefully is more and more places as we as we get healthier. Well, let's hope sounds like she had some awesomeness oozing out of her stores as well. The Female, Yes, sounds like a great read. Again. I can't wait to get my Football Outsiders Almanac, and I can't recommend purchasing

that more highly to football fans. If you haven't done it before, please do it. It's it's great and we all have time to read right now, so this is the perfect time to purchase one. Robert, this has been great. Hopefully we'll do it again down the road, and the next time we do, hopefully we'll be talking about the emerging Bengals under the leadership of Joe Burrow, indeed six and two and looking for the playoffs. That would be nice. Yes,

any time. Damp Football Outsiders Almanac isn't cheap. The printed version is about fifty bucks, or you can download it for thirty five, but I think it's worth it and you can get more information at Football Outsiders dot com. Before we get to our next conversation, here's a quick reminder that you can take your Bengals pride to the next level in twenty twenty with an official Bengals fan

package from Prime Sport. It's been a few weeks since we've heard from my broadcast partner Dave Lapham on the podcast. He went on vacation early in the month and I was out of town last week, but we got together this week to discuss the start of training camp and to answer the ask lap questions that you submitted on Twitter. Lap. I want to start with another never doubt Dave Lapham.

Lesson for more than a month on this podcast, you have talked about the possibility of having a reduced number of players in training camps under these circumstances, and I never said it to you, but in my mind I'm thinking, no way, the players will never allow it. Well, sure enough, Adam Schefter reported earlier this week the teams will likely have eighty players on the roster instead of the usual ninety. Once again, never doubt, Dave Lapham. Who does this help?

Who does it hurt? Well, it hurts all the college free agents, late round picks that you know are going to be using preseason games to make their mark a little bit. A lot of times you can evaluate players in certain drills in practice, and then all you have to do in the game is see, okay, can he finish but he's putting himself in great position. Now can he bring the guy to the ground? You know? And then you see in the games if in fact he can do all phases of it, and you make a

determination if a guy makes the team or not. Without that, it's it's very, very difficult for you know, the late round picks and the college free agents to make the football team. I mean, you know, unless you're a guy like Tim Crummer, who the very first drill is like whoa, I mean this guy, how did he last? Still the tenth round? Everybody missed on this dude. Um, those those are kind of rare. A lot of times you just you need reps, you need opportunities to prove yourself. So

it really hurts hurts that level of player. What it helps is the veteran who's hanging on, you know, the guy that maybe can do a few things, can provide back up in a few different a couple of different position areas, and uh, you know, can still you know, be a factor in the in the room as such in terms of grooming some younger guys. And uh, you know, he's battling for the last year or two of his career against a guy who you know doesn't get the opportunity to show or there are a fewer numbers of

guys going against him to take that job. It just it just makes it makes life a little bit better for those guys. So the Union probably said, yeah, okay, we'll take We'll take that that's that's something we'll give on. You know, we'll take that ten fewer players because we're protecting our guys that are already union members. We're protecting their job even more so. So you do feel for the guys that and there's ten per team that's und

twenty guys. Out of three hundred twenty guys you're probably gonna get thirty or so that could really make a team, make an impact, have have a career, and those guys you feel really bad for. This is our first conversation since AJ Green signed his franchise tag tender and then spoke to reporters. You asked him several questions during that zoom call. What stood out the fact that he is, in my mind, cut from the same cloth as Anthony Munios.

He might be the greatest human being, you know, in terms of a football player, not just not just a great player, I mean a world class player, but as well has everything else, I mean everything you could ask for. Just a tremendous human being, a great leader of men. I mean, the team is going to be better for having him on the practice field every day. I've said it many times, you know, and even in the offseason.

You know, when I work out with Anthony, I'm like, oh man, this guy, the great ones, Anthony Minos, James Brooks, they worked harder than anybody. So it's like, look what Anthony's doing, Look what Jab's doing. Am I doing enough? You know? And that's the same with aj Green. Oh my gosh, these young players. Look what he j Green's doing in practice. Look what he does, you know, getting ready for workouts. Am I doing enough? And it just

raises the boat, you know. So he just makes he makes the football team better in obvious ways, you know, on the field, tilting coverage, defenses, having to do accompliment and all that. But the ripple effect all the way down to you know, how he takes care of his body for nutrition wise, guys, see how he works out, all the little things. I mean, he just he upgrades the organization every way it can be upgraded. And most importantly, what kind of guy he is, you know, the human

being that he is. He's such a plus to a locker room. Speaking of Anthony Milius, Johnny Unitis ended his career with the Chargers, Emmett Smith with the Cardinals, Joe nath with the Rams, Anthony Munier has played in preseason games for the Bucks. Thankfully, he never played in a regular season game in that uniform. So here's my question prediction time. Will AJ Green end his career with the

Bengals or will he eventually wear another uniform? You know, I asked him that very question is why is it, why is this so important for you to finish, you know, as a Cincinnati Bengal And his answer was, executy to expect from AJ Green. That's the team that took the chance to me. That's the team that picked me. That's the team that said we want you. And a guy like him, with the character that he has, all things being equal, I think he is going to stay with

that football team. So it would not shock me at all if AJ Green takes every single snap of his professional career as a Cincinnati Bengal, because you know, I mean the organization obviously, everything we're talking about with AJ Green, they see it in spades every single day. So I mean, this is like you know, parting with the biggest diamond you can mine in a minefield in Africa, uh In saying that I'm done with that and I'm going to move on to another one. I think I'll keep that one,

you know. I mean, I don't know. I don't I think I'll just make sure that that I wear that until he cracks or whatever happens to Diamonds. I don't know what happens to him, but I mean A J and I and I really do think that he does. He says he feels like he has four years left. And we've talked about it a few times. Dan seeing him up there in Cleveland on the field before the game, I'm like, heys, and he said it. I'm not the fastest,

but man, I'm smooth. I'm like, that's part he is so sinking his hips, getting in and out of cuts. At a guy six foot four looking like a guy five foot four, The way he can sink his hips and getting it out is remarkable. And that's what makes you know great receivers um. You know Fred Bulitnikoff, Um, guys like you know of that of that type, Steve Largent, they weren't going to burn, but they he just got in and out of cuts. I mean, they changed direction.

They had that type of thing, uh in their game, and we're always open and that's what That's what AJ's got. On top of leaping ability hands. And he's plenty fast too. You know, I'm not going to say that. Uh you know, A two was being very humble as he always is. Well, yeah, it may not be that you're pretty fast, man. You can run. You can run. You may not be world class,

but you can run, man. And if he stays healthy this year and plays the way that Aj Green has always played when healthy, I personally think the Bengals would pay him as much as any other team in the league would pay him. I agree with you. I agree with you, Dan, I mean I think that, and I think aj Aj seems to me to be the kind of guy that if he feels like he's been treated fairly and he knows has a good feeling about his

environment and the surroundings and everything. Because Aj is not one of these guys that you know as a boisterous, you know, outgoing coming to locker room. It's all about me, me me, Hey, I'm Aj Green here, I'm He'd rather be a guy just you know, just blending in working as you know, just just blend in with the crowd of the locker room. And I think if he feels good about Zach Taylor, the coaching staff, his teammates Joe Burrow, I think he stays and I can see it definitely happened.

The owners and players are still negotiating details for training camp in the upcoming season. The players pushed for no preseason games. It looks like they're going to get their wish. So how huge of a problem is that for a rookie quarterback like Joe Burrow. You know, it's it's I think it's gotta it's gotta be tough because I'm thinking

as an offensive lineman, no preseason games plum. Playing in a regular season game without any preseason steps whatsoever, is like going into the opening night of a play without any dress rehearsal. You know, it's like, hey, you feel

a little naked. You know, it's like not quite sure and maybe not maybe you're totally sure about what you're supposed to do, but how you're supposed to do it in concert with others, you know, when those stunts happen and all those kind of things that you need to take game reps to get a feel for and make sure that you are all on the same page and

everything's locked up, everything's buttoned up. So there's still a little uncertainty you know, I think I know how it's going to flow, but I'm not really totally sure how it's going to flow. And I think the level of play in the first a few games are going to be more like preseason, you know. I think there's going to be tackling issues. There's tackling issues anyway, because people don't tackle anymore in practice, but I think it's going

to be even more so. And I think, you know, I think some of the pass protection pickups of twists and stunts is going to be spotty, you know. And and a young player like like Joe Burrow with AJ Green, for example, Andy Dalton and aj Green had built up such a report they needed. Andy Dalton knew where AJ Green wanted the football on different routes. He wants it here, he wants it back shoulder, and he wants to he wants him to be lit here. He wants to be able to have the ball out in front of him.

So so he all that stuff only happens by taking rep in specifically game reps too, having some sort of an idea. So I think there's going to be a little bit of an impact. But I am a firm believer in what I'm hearing about Joe Burrow that that he is so mature. You know, he's he's he's older than Mahomes, you know, I mean, he's older than Lamar Jackson.

I mean he's a mature guy and U and I you know, in his ability to pick up and understand offense, I don't doubt any of that, but the nuances of fine tuning, you know, the reps of where different receivers want footballs, and he's really good with that. He didn't put the ball the same place to Jeffers and he did the Mosses tight end. I mean, he had he had an idea of exactly where those guys wanted it.

And and you know, after doing it for so many reps, the receivers know where the quarterback expect them to be, and the quarterback feels the receiver's going to be there, and he's gonna put the ball exactly where you know that's supposed to be, and that's that's not going to necessarily be there right away if it is. Man, he's a magician. He's Joe Burrows, like Joe Burrows more than a human being. And that's for she's a superhero. On the one hand, I say to myself, college football teams

don't get preseason games. They have to be ready to go right away. On the other hand, the Bengals don't get the opportunity to schedule an FCS opponent. Yeah, that's true, That's very true. And and I think, you know, college,

they'll hit a little more. I mean, in the NFL, it's like, you know, they're already they're already concerned now with how many padded practices are they going to be with respect to no preseason games, we know there's only seventeen during the course of the entire season, you know,

one a week. Maybe it's even less than that. So I don't know how many padded practices are going to allow in this negotiated unusual You know, the year twenty twenty twenty, you think perfect vision, Well, twenty twenty is nothing but blurry. There's no perfect about this twenty twenty. This twenty twenty is all man, it's all a fog

for everybody. So you don't know what to expect. So how many padded actuses are you're going to have to be able to do some of the things we're talking about in terms of timing things full speed now there's not going to be tackling, but you know the one on ones, all of that sort of thing, beating, beating a defensive back. You know, the receivers with their footwork beating defensive backs in and how it cuts on rounds like we're talking about defensive backs, you know, flipping their

hips like we're all those kind of things. And you know, the big worry for me, dan is is they start playing regular season games and you know you're not in as good a football shape as you would have been if you want through training camp to pushing and pulling all the time. When you do have padded practices, I mean, you can lift weights and run until you're blue in the face, But until you get out there and hit push, pull all the tenons, ligaments, all the attachments, that's where

the soreness comes. And man, I'm telling you, the first night of after live contact to training camp wake up the next morning every year is like rig and Morris get out of bed like whoa, Oh, well that's football, you know, and now you got to get into football shape. So if you get into football shape and then the season stops were for or whatever, and you get out of football shape, then how are you going to get

back into football shape if they restarted? And that's a concern to me in terms of injuries and all that sort of thing that they're talking about. And to me, it's almost like a delicate balancing act. You don't want to overhit because of player safety, but you don't want to have guys go in not ready to hit in terms of player safety. Where is that balance? Where is

that balance of justice there? You know? I mean, that's the big deal in NFL news this week, the Titans gave Derek Henry a four year, fifty million dollar contract extension. They can get out of it after a couple of years with minimal salary cap damage. But in any case, would you give Joe Mixon a similar deal? Yes? I would. I'd give Joe Mixon a similar deal, and you know Joe might be looking for more than that. But I mean to me, you know, when accaffrey signed, it was like, uh, man,

that's who when is a running back? And assign and what is he going to sign for? And then it came back into a more of a realistic standpoint. But because McCaffrey's different, I mean, coming out of Stanford was like half the half the league was thinking running back, half the league was thinking wide receiver. I mean, he's that gifted in both of those scenarios, and so he's an unusual guy. He's an exception of the rule. I

would I would. I mean, Joe obviously was a huge, huge factor in the second half of the season last year. I mean, without Aja around and you know, not having the passing attack they had, and knowing that Joe Joe Mixon was going to run the football, he still was one of the top rushers in the National Football League the last eight games of the season. So he's obviously he's a guy that he's a lightning rod for the rest of the team. Guys gravitate toward him. They feed

off his energy. He provides a lot of energy. He's a hell of a player. I would, I'd think him if I could. There are only five running backs right now making more than ten million a year. McCaffrey's deal is sixteen million a year, as akl Elliot at fifteen, Leveon Bell thirteen point one two five, David Johnson thirteen. That one hasn't worked out very well, and now Henry twelve point five. That's it. There's nobody between ten and

Henry's twelve point five. So if you could get Mixon, in my opinion, somewhere in that range ten million to twelve point five for four years, yeah, I think that's fair. I do. I agree with you. And uh, you know, you look at it, um, Yeah, Johnson obviously that that didn't did not work out at all. Levy on Bell. You know, the big money hasn't started to pay dividends yet either. So you look at those and you say, you know, I wonder, I just think McCaffrey's in a

different category, and so's so's Henry. I mean, god, he's you know, he's a monster. I mean that guy's that guys are physical freak to be able to do the things that he can do at his size, and uh, you know, just his footspeed and his ability to to you know, make people miss when he does. And you know, he's he's a he's a different breed of cat. But I do think Joe Mixon is in the upper tier

of complete backs in the National Football League. I mean, Joe won't hesitate to bloody his nose, you know, in past protection either. I mean, he's a complete back for sure. So just like Batman. We took a gigantic spotlight put the Bengals logo into the Cincinnati sky and that was the signal for ask lap questions on Twitter. So we've got a bunch from people. Here goes. Randy is up first, with no preseason game games. What's the over under on

early season injuries? And rather than trying to come up with some sort of number for an over under, just in general terms, do you expect a big increase in injuries? That's that's a big That's an interesting question because that's what I was talking about with I can understand how guys want to You have to ramp into it. There's not going to be anything but lifting and conditioning initially and then unpadded practices and then a few padded practices

down the stretch. And if you're not, if you have not had at least in preseason game, no matter when it is, you know the preseason game. Number three is one the veterans usually get the most snaps and they go through that stiffness thing. I was talking about, that football getting in football shape kind of thing. And you still have time to get yourself ready for that for

that opener. I don't know I just I wonder. I can see a lot of guys after the first game of the season waking up on Monday morning going, oh my god, I've never felt like this. And the Bengals play on Thursday in a week two, Yeah, they get the short week. They got Cleveland, um, and you know, it's it's if you're an offensive lineman working against the Chargers have a pretty good physical defense up front, and because sometimes you play against teams and their finesse teams,

but you know, it's it's relative. It's still there's still some physicality, but some are just brutes, you know, some just try to beat you up. Chargers have have some force in their front seven. And you wake up on Monday morning and it's like going to play Thursday night. I'm thirty years I feel a little stiff. I'm gonna be able to play Thursday night. I mean, those kind of things start to start to be a little bit

of a factor. We've talked about it before. You know, when I was twenty two or twenty three, I could play Sunday. I felt like I'd played on Tuesday or Wednesday. You know, once I got in football shape, you hit twenty eight, thirty thirty one, thirty two. It's it's a little bit different. It's like, yeah, I need all those days. I don't Thursday night football, Wow, who Monday night football is great, you get that expert, then you got the short week after Monday night football. I don't really like

that short week. So yeah, those are all those are all big factors, and I do think that that's going to be an issue. It's going to be very interesting how they handle Fortunately, it's Cleveland, so they have a lot of knowledge of some of the personal but they've

changed a lot. They have a new head coach, they have a new offensive system, they have a new this knew that, So they have some sort of familiarity with the Cleveland Browns, but not as much as they have another year's for a short week, So it's going to be very interesting how they handle practice. I think a lot of that week is going to be mental and a lot less of its physical. How many games did

you play in nineteen eighty three? Played sixteen games with the Bengals, we played oh No, and then four preseason games, so I played twenty twenty games and then played twenty more with the New Jersey Generals and then two in the posted forty two games, forty two football games in one calendar year, less than a calendar year, in less than a calendar year, and you still have all your marbles. And I was. I was thirty two coming home, thirty three years old. I remember when I was done with

that season with the New Jersey Generals. I went to Cape Cod and laid in the ocean and I laid their light. It was a natural um like hot not hot tub, but just the waves, you know, just maybe soak a little bit in salt water with the waves. And man, I was, I was struggling. I mean, I'd go home and lay down after practice, could barely get up and shuffle the table and eat dinner. And the trainers will give me Enderson, which is what they give

horses at the racetrack for swelling or inflammation. Mike, are you sure, Yeah, yeah, these would be all right. I'm on these little red pills Enderson to make sure I could play on the following uh on the following Sunday. Oh my gosh, that was so brutal. Here's a Dave lap I'm interview from the end of the nineteen eighty three season. From that Enderson of course, of course, next question comes from Jim. I think I know the answer

to this one. Jim asks, would it be best to sign or trade for a veteran quarterback and let Joe Burrow sit since this is the worst season to start a rookie quarterback in history? You know, it's it's interesting. I mean, there is there is you could you could probably say that it might be the worst season to start a rookie quarterback in NFL history, But I don't think. I don't think i'd trade for a veteran quarterback too.

I really have a belief that mentally he's going to be okay if you if you trade for a veteran quarterback, Honestly, I don't think he'll have obviously reps experience. But Joe Burrow I think understands football to the point that just

about any veteran quarterback in the league. So Joe Burrow may not have the reps like we're talking about Joe Green and others, but no either with the guy that he trade for, I mean, he would have no no prior, you know, workout or anything, any kind of timing, any kind of This is this is exactly where aj Green, you know, wants the football. He doesn't have any of that either, So, um, you know, I'm not sure. I'm

not sure I would necessarily go that route. I think Philip Rivers obviously he knows what to expect more than more than Joe Joe does. But I mean he's in a whole new situation with you, with the Indianapolis Colts. He hasn't thrown in any of those guys. He and Joe Burrow will be on the exact same starting point in terms of what kind of reps every every quarterback

in the league other than you know, Drew Brees. That's why you know, the New Orleans Saints said, fine, you know, no matter what the leagu he says, we'll see a training camp. They got Drew Brees, they get all these weapons that he's thrown to. Those guys are so far ahead of the curve on veterans and rookie quarterbacks that are with new teams. That's it's it's a big, big issue. There's no doubt. Next question from doctor who Day, why

are players in favor of no preseason games? You know, I think they just the injury risk, you know, I think they just uh, I think players would love to see preseason games gone anyway, and players don't really play all that much. Veteran players don't play all that much in the preseason obviously. Preseason games are intended more for determining the last ten players on your roster and practice squads and all those sort of things. It's player evaluation

of the back end of that. That's why there's ninety players. They want to bring as many as they possibly can and to have options to see what they can to fill out their roster and their practice squad. So players think any and I want to avoid injury, they will play. Usually in preseason game number three, they'll play a half, cool down, warm back up, play a series in the third quarter, and get that part of it under their belts. And that's another thing that they're not going to have

going into that first week. Going there at halftime, cool down, warm back up, go out there for the second half. Be the first time you're doing that and in quite

a while. So the players. But to me, it's kind of foolhardy because now with salary cap this year, salary caps one hundred ninety eight million dollars preseason with no preseason games next year, salary cap is already going to be affected because players say, oh, I only get like fifteen hundred bucks a week to play in the preseason, and I don't start getting paid until the regular season.

Those big paychecks will come in. So a fifteen hundred dollars paycheck could become a thirty five thousand dollars paycheck once the regular season starts for some of these guys. But in terms of salary cap, that is part of the salary cap. That is that money that that revenue is split the following year in the salary cap. So the veteran players have to realize that's something that's not

going to be there. I mean, people are projecting the salary cap could be down fifty sixty million bucks next year from one hundred ninety eight to one hundred and thirty eight million bucks, and not having a preseason with I mean, the TV revenue is obviously not as big as it is in a regular season, but there's there's tickets, there's concessions, there's all those sort of things, and the owners aren't paying out big bucks in terms of the to the players, but that money gets split, the revenue

gets split for that that following year's salary cap, so there won't be any any preseason revenue coming up in twenty twenty one. They're going to have to spread that salary cap damage out over the course of several years, don't you think, because teams aren't just going to say, all right, we got to lop fifty million dollars worth the players off the roster. I don't see that happen. How would you like to be Kansas City with them home signing, you know, and then Chris Jones these big contracts,

you know, anybody that in this offseason? How about Miles Garrett up in Cleveland? You kidding me, you know, give him that kind of money and then all of us. Maybe next year's cap is going to take a major hit if they don't pro rate it like you're talking about. It's like, wow, jeez, maybe we shouldn't. Maybe maybe we should have thought twice about the timing of this. You know, maybe we should have waited a little a little while longer.

But you know, because everybody's doing these deals with the perception, and you know, well thought out perception that the Caps are going to do nothing but go up. Well, coronavirus said, not so fast. The best laid plans. All right. Next question comes from Will what's been the issue with Billy Price that's prevented his play in college to carry over to the NFL and can it be corrected? Well, I

think one of the things is injury, you know. I mean he was durable as durable as you know can be in college, played a bunch of games at a house state and a ridiculous number never missed really, and then right away at the combine before the draft, he tears his pectorial doing you know, the bench press h work,

and that that sets him back a little bit. And then he has the planet phaciitis or not the planet phacotis, he had the Liz franc injury, and that those are significant where right between the big toe and the second toe you have a separation of the bone and there can be some soft tissue damage in there as well, and you have a crack in the foundation, you know, and then all of a sudden, those are two integral

areas for for an offensive lineman. Feet. That's where it starts, you have to no matter in sports, no matter what you're talking about, it starts with your feet getting human place to block, and then it finishes with your hands, and if your pectoral's messed up, you can't really finish the way you want to with the you know, everything's

connected kinesiology, everything's connected. You can't really finish upper body wise the way you want to, or put yourself in a position to block the way you want to at the lower body injury. So those are a factor. And uh, and I do think, um, he's got a little bit of an issue with his arm length. And you know, NP will say Jonah Williams has got shorter arms as well. He seems to be able to handle it a little

bit differently Billy. Sometimes Billy ends up getting in a situation when I watch him, whereas if you're a skier, his his chins out over the tip of his skis. He's leaning too much, he's too too much forward. And why he's doing that is with the shorter arms, he wants to get the extra length of leaning forward to try to negate the defensive lineman's longer arms, and that just gets them in trouble because they get to the back of the candle lever and they'll get him on

the ground. You know, you're off balance and you and you're on the ground. So I mean, you have to work with what you got, but you do have to make sure that you know you're not you're not leaning in the National Football give you lean and defensive lineman, you're just drooling waiting for guys to get off balance

and lean in the National Football League. John asks, given how well Fred Johnson played at left tackle at the end of the season, is there any chance the Bengals put him at left tackle and Jonah Williams at right tackle. I guess there could be a possibility, but I do think that I think they want to give Jonah every opportunity to, uh, to prove that he can play the left tackle position. He played it at Alabama at a

very very high level. Fred Johnson, you know, played one game, but it was an NFL game, you know, no question about it. And he finished the season at the left tackle position and fared well. But the projection of Jonah, a healthy Jonah Williams and uh, you know, Jonah obviously coming off of rotator cuff surgery with a shorter arm.

To me, is there is there any coincidence to the fact that as you're in a drill without pads, even in OTAs, and you're trying to stop somebody and you're maybe not where you should be position wise with the shorter arm you Terry rotator Cuff, don't. I don't know if you if you're not, if you're not in that position, if you have a little bit more length, you're own, who knows. I mean, these are all speculations. Obviously, you

just don't know. Hopefully that rotator Cuff is strong and healthy and he shows that he can play the left tackle the way he played at Alabama, and then I think Fred Johnson, Bobby Hart, Identagy, I'd have a best man win at the right tackle position. You guys battle it out. Not to say that Jonah is. You know, nobody's going to even take snaps on the Jona winning.

Obviously he can't do that. So I think Fred Taylor, Bobby Hart, whoever it is, Identagy, whoever it is, whoever that swing tackle is, has to be able to play right and left. So you know, maybe knowing Jimmy Turner, maybe he will play Jonah a little bit at right. Because in the National Football League, you can't just be like one win position. You can't be just I'm a left tackle and that's all I am. You have to be able to play left or right? Can you go

inside and play guard? If you're a guard, can you be a backup center or vice versa. So I think position versatility is extremely important, and I think you need to expose guys to at least you know the scenario that, hey, we get beaten up, you may have to play some right right tackle. You know our best option. This guy can play left. He can't play right at all. You can play right at all. You shown you can play right a little bit, so you know, the more you

can do, the more valuable you can be. Final ask lap question. This one comes from PJ. With the addition of von Bell to go with Jesse Bates. What kind of role does Sean Williams have? That's an interesting question. I mean, I think the Bengals have played a lot of three safety looks in there and a lot of their sub packages, and uh, you know, Sean is obviously capable of doing that. And it's it's it's not a given that von Bell will start at that safety position.

They paid him a lot of money though, so you know it's it's like again, if you have it's better to have three safeties than only two. And uh, Sean can play. He's very physical, von Bell is very physical. Either one of them could play like that linebacker or safety hybrid type position and some of the sub packages

when they go to three safeties. So with the problems that they had at the linebacker position, and last year they did do a lot of that and um Um, Sean and and Vaughan both show that they if they can, you know, get off blocks, defeat blocks, separate from blocks, and make plays in the running game not be a liability,

they could be on the field a lot. Um. So I know Sean is uh is very highly regarded in the locker room by his teammates and by the coaches and the coaching staff, so they'll they'll carve a role for him. I mean, there's there's no question about it. It's it's Uh. You You basically you don't say, all right, I've got these are the defenses we're going to run, no matter what personnel I've got. You basically look at

your personnel. You have an idea of what you want to do schematically, but sometimes it morphs a little bit based on what you have from personnel standpoint, Where your strengths, where your weaknesses accentuate, your strengths, hide your weaknesses and uh and you go from there. And having a guy the caliber Shawn that's had as many NFL snaps as

he had, ain't nothing wrong with that. Normally, in training camp were standing between the two fields, right up next to the action, talking to people, picking up interesting material. This year, it sounds like we'll be watching from a distance wearing masks six feet apart. But that's okay. I'm looking forward to it anyway, And on our next podcast we'll look ahead at some training camp battles that we're looking forward to watching. How that's yeah, that sounds good. Yeah,

we're gonna have to have binoculars. I think we're gonna be a little ways away, and it's going to be very interesting not having access to players in the locker room. And I mean we can't even go into our studio. I mean, there's there's very little that I guess we're gonna be spending a lot of time up in the press box at Paul Brown Stadium up top there and Dana, we're going to travel for away games. We may be calling football games from up there in the press box

and on a monitor. I guess, depending on how this whole thing goes. One thing we know is we don't know. We don't know what the heck is going to happen. It can change weekly, daily, hourly. I mean, it's it's that type of year at twenty twenty, it's about it's a lot blurry on that there's no clear vision to

what this year is going to unfold. I'll tell you Hi, thanks to Lap and to Robert Weintraub, and that's going to do it for this episode of The Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to you by Prime Sport, the official fan, travel and hospitality partner of the Cincinnati Bengals. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe, and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast