Bengals Booth Podcast: It Just Takes Some Time

and colleague Jeff Butch Hobson from Bengals dot Com. In addition to talking about this year's team, will discuss his relationship with Paul Brown and Mike Brown, and will also compare answers on a series of top three lists, including our most Memorable Bengals games and the biggest what ifs in franchise history. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play Next Level Fantasy Football game downloaded now from the App Store and Google Play.

And here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the Bengals Video Content team. If you're a big Bengals fan, you have undoubtedly enjoyed the

tremendous work of the Bengals video content team. Every day there's something interesting on the team's website and social media channels, including the recent edition of Dan and Dave's radio call of the game where there's a camera in the booth that shows Dave Lapham and yours truly going bananas on the Bengals big plays. So kudos to Seth, Marissa Luke, Gary, Adam Jay and everybody involved. Your work is as good

as any video content team in the NFL. Now, let's get to my conversation with Bengals dot Com editor Jeff Butch Hobson, beginning with his path to Cincinnati or anybody that's heard your Boston accent over the years knows that you are from New England. How did you wind up in Cincinnati covering the Bengals. I think Jerry kress Nick was probably a big factor. Jerry I had worked with Cherry at that Portland Press, Harrald, and he had come out to the Cincinnati Post to cover the Reds and

that was about a year before I came out. And it was such a great fit. The city was you know, you could buy a house, two little kids, wanted another one, great place to great place to raise a family. As it turned out, that was perfect. Wanted a pro town, pro city, you know, first class, all the way worked out thirty one years ago. Couldn't ask for it worked out any better. So I arrived in Cincinnati in November of ninety five. So I never met Paul brown which

is a big regret of mine. Described meeting Paul and how well did you get to know him, Hordy, He would have liked it. He liked announcers. He the guy I grew up with listening to in in his Red Sox. For him a sixty seven impossible dream. Ken Coleman who actually broke in, Uh not broke in, but I think one of his one of his his first big breakthrough job was he was announcing for Paul Browns Cleveland Browns. And so that's something we had in common right away

that we talked about. We had kind of Ernie Davis in common too. Paul traded for Ernie Davis when he was in Cleveland, and Ernie, of course was the fabled Heisman Trophy winner from our school Syracuse. So that was that was obviously obvious. Andre very easy guy to talk to You would not know that he was the man that invented football. I you know, saw him on talk to him, trying to talk to him every day because he ran the Bengals, seeing you know, he had to

talk to Mike or Paul every day. They ran the Bengals and they were very accessible. You know, this was you know, Paul Brown was a guy that when he professionalized football, pro football was right there with swords swallowing and you know, broom hockey. You know, it was not a popular sport. The country was ruled by boxing, college football, baseball.

Paul would probably you know, I'm sure Paul got on the horn in the nineteen forty six, nineteen forty seven and say, hey, come on over and cover us, you know. And so he was very you know, anytime you call him at home, he'd pick it up. He'd answered it, talk to you. I mean, it was you know, I've told you the story many times when he was said to Sunday of mind when it was a very steamy practice on the sideline of Spinney Field he was at every practice, came over to me said, Sunday, do you

mind if I tell you something? You know, a man came down from Aunt Rushmore. Yes, he can say anything he wants to me. And he said, I'm worried about your posture, and he h, you know, I kind of a little hunched over there, you know. And he gave me a few tips. And if he came back now, he'd be a little disappointed. I've turned into Quasimodo. But I told I told Mike Brown about it. I turned Mike Brown about it. Later I talked him about He goes, yeah,

he goes. You know, he taught he taught health at UH at Masslin, you know, he was he was a teacher and he taught health and he went into the whole thing about sclosis and uh what you know, curvature of the spine, and uh very nice. So I remember one time I went down at nineteen ninety one draft. Uh, coach, can I take you out to lunch? We'll talk about the draft. He goes, I don't go out to lunch, he said, but UH, bring your lunch and uh we'll have it. We'll we'll eat right here in my office. Son.

I He pulled out a bag lunch with, you know, a sandwich in an apple and uh I had whatever I had, and we we talked the draft. Uh At one thing I remember about that one is he was he was very intrigued by a tall quarterback I believe out of San Diego State, Dan McGuire, the younger brother of Mac McGuire. As the draft unfolded that day. Uh I Dan McGuire went sixteen and the Bengals were picking I believe eighteen or nineteen. And I'm hell and yeah.

So the first thing I asked him after the draft was when the when we when the writers met with him, Coach, you had you know, you had McGuire was sitting there. He goes, yeah, he goes, that would have been very interesting, he said, if McGuire had been on the board. So that was you know, uh, Mike, Mike likes his uh he likes his quarterbacks tall. And uh so did PB.

How did Jernst trust? I think just by right the right what he told you and and and being uh and and having the facts and uh I think, uh talking to him about you know, about his pat you know, about what he accomplished, knowing that I wasn't you know, knowing that I knew, you know, knowing knowing that I knew what I was talking about that I had known about football from back in the day and about now, and uh, I think too, if you showed up every day. He liked that. He used to joke with the writers

about if a guy wasn't there. And this was before me, but I talked to other guys about him, and if a guy missed today, he'd say, oh, yeah, that must be a union off day or something, you know, kidding the guy. He would because he would notice if you were there or not. So I think if you put in the I'll never forget. There was a a crisis going on my first year, the only year that he

was alive that I covered the team. My first year was the when Mike, when Sam Wish shut the locker room to a female reporter and you know, went into this wild kind of crazy thing about how you know, it was not right for you know, even though it was NFL policy and the policy of the country was, you know, equal rights. You opened up the room for everybody. All of a sudden, Sam thought he was this arbiter, a small arbiter all of a sudden, So, of course was a national crisis that blew up. And I'm on

the West coast. My first you know, my third fourth game covering the team, and I'm I could barely reeve and I'm in a hotel in Seattle and I'm trying to get Paul Brown and I can't. You know, he's not in the office. And you know I got his home number. How often you want to use that? But you know, you got to talk to Paul about this. And he called me in the hotel. He called my room at four in the morning my time. It was seven in the morning his time. But he knew that

I was on. He knew the Cincinnati Post, he knew it was an afternoon paper. He knew I had desplay had a tact him, all right, phone rang at four in the morning. It was he said, Hey, this is this is Paul you know, you know, not mister Brown or coach Brown. This is Paul. You know that's how he wanted to be called. I said, coach. Thank god, thank god you called me. He says, well, I knew you needed to call me. I know it's early, but

I figured you were up. So I'll I'll never for I'll never forget him for that because he bailed out a he bailed out you know, he bailed out a confused scribe that morning, and I never forget one time I had to barge in. Was I had to barge in. It was sweet in the middle of the game because something had come up on the wire about there was a story that has been us falling out with Paul Brown and Sam White and Cincinnati. So my desk wanted

to get me in there. And he was on his He would go to the games even though he needed oxygen. You know, that's how much he was committed to this team. And he was on his and he was on the machine, and he uh. I barged in and he looked at me with his eyes wide open, and I thought, my god, I've killed the man that he woted football. But no, he was fine. He said, come on down, come on down. I told him what was going on. He goes, now, that's bowl. He gave me two great quotes. I'm sure

I let a notebook with it. And it's another night. He bailed me out. I mean, you know the guy who said the guy was terrific. Did you barge or did you politely knock? I think I think I probably did a little bit of both. I hope I hope I did. I hope I did a little bit of both. You know, he obviously had such a curious mind. I bet that's why he liked you, because you're a curious person about many subjects. I bet you connected on the level of two curious people. Yeah, I think. And it's

the same thing with Mike. You know, Mike is just how to cut out of the same mold. Mike's very, very interested in what we do as writers and as broadcasters. That's how he grew up. He grew up around sports, he grew up and listening to broadcasters. He grew up reading the papers, you know. So he was you know, he was really uh, you know, very into history and

saw him I and I imagine Paul was too. But you know, Mike and I oftentimes we would spend more time talking about history and and and before getting it well before or after we had get into the business of the day. And uh, but I think you're I

think exactly right, Mike, Uh, Hordy. Mike and Paul both both curious guys, you know, I mean they you know, they read the papers, they listened to uh, they listened to the radio accounts in the play by play, So it was you know, it was kind of like you know, I told Mike when he offered me the job, I said, jeez, I said, I don't know if I want you to be my boss. I like you as a friend. You know. He goes, well, we can still be friends, and he

was exactly what right about that? Too? Yeah. I wish people knew the Mike Brown that we know, because he's a great storyteller. He's obviously extremely well read on all subjects, and he's got this whole body laugh. You know, when Dave Lappam makes him laugh, it's a whole body shake

that you can hear from like three rooms away. And it's just it's such an enjoyable part of the job getting to spend time with him when it's not you know, talking about hardcore business Bengals topics that he has to address. And I think I think that's another thing that people people with on is he likes to laugh. He's a warm guy, and I know the way he's treated my fan,

uh he is. He has been the ultimate boss. I mean, if here's a guy I remember, you know, I could call him on really to talk about anything, you know. I mean, that's uh, that's the kind of guy he is. And I know and I know he would help me if I needed it. He has helped me if I needed it, And uh, you know, I i'd get him on the horn. I know, I'd get at a very bad time, you know, whether I was with the Bengals, when I was working before the Bengals or the Inquiry,

it had to be. I'm sure, I'm sure. I remember one time Jack Brennan said he was listening in on a phone call with I had with Mike when I was at the Inquirer, and I was growing Mike pretty good, and Mike coughing up the phone. He said to Jack, how'd you like to go through that four times a day? You know? And you know so, but he was always very pleasant, you know, and he would tell me. I remember one time he told me, I take take the

rest of the night off, you know. And so he was really really a good uh really really a great guy to work for. He had to work with when I when I was at the Inquirer. You're visiting with Jeff Hobson, if I'm not mistaken, you were really the first hardcore newspaper guy to go to work for a team's website. Was that hard? Yeah, it was very hard.

It was very hard. It was a I talked to a lot of people about that, and it was a hard call because you know, I guess you kind of fancy yourself as being independent, you know, being an independent guy and all that, and what plus, what would people say, if you know, jees, if I go over to work there, and they're gonna say, well, he wasn't hort. He was. He was so soft on them when he worked at

The Inquirer that they hired him. But if you look at the coverage in nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine, I think you would have to say, I can't believe Mike hired that guy. In fact, I think some people in his family may have even said that he offered me the job. But you know, it was interesting, it was, but it was easy to do. You know why it was easy to do a hordy because I was going to go to work for Mike. I know he would be a All I would need is a handshake. I

didn't have to sign a deal or anything. I knew it was word. He was as good as his word, so is mine. And it was and it was because I know how he treated people. He treated people well, and that in the end. I think was what made that was what made the call um. I think that, you know, it was still sports, you know, And what was wrong with being on the other side. You know, I've been twenty years, I'd been on the other side

at newspapers. Why not get on the other side, see how the business has run and h and I. You know, it's an exciting thing. You're twenty fourth. You know, I could write it any time, I could post at any moment I could. You know, that's a that's a that's a reporter's dream, you know. So but I never forget Mike saying, hey, look, I don't know where this thing is going. And I told him when Mike offered me the job, I said, you know, Mike, I don't know a damn thing about computers. I said, I can barely

get onto my laptop. I said, my advice to you is to get a guy fresh out of college or a lady whatever, somebody fresh out of college. He knows something about computers, and he goes, you know, but I want somebody the fans trust, which tells you something when he thinks about the fans. Because I want somebody to fans trust, the fans know and who they'll you know,

who they'll read and they'll trust. And I thought that was very you know, it was interesting because neither of us knew where this thing called the Internet was going. I mean, but I do, but I kind of knew if something blew up, if it didn't blow up, But Mike, would you know, keep me around. I could do something for the man. I felt like I could do and that's you know, I just in the end, it was came down to having a good relationship with Mike. And yes,

he was right, he was all over it. The Internet was going to take off. I didn't think it would. I had no I had no idea. I had no idea. But you know, Mike, I think a lot like his dad, not afraid of anything new. You know, I'm not afraid of anything new. And I and if it hadn't been, if it hadn't anybody but Mike, I don't know if I would have taken the joone. I mean, the way the newspaper industry has gone. Unfortunately, it's probably the best

decision you ever made. There's no doubt about There's no because yeah, I mean that that that industry is struggling. And last time I looked. The NFL is is not struggling. That is accurate. Let's talk about the Hall of Fame. Every NFL city has a representative on the committee. You are the Cincinnati rep. The first time you're in that room,

was it pretty humbling to think? And I'm just a kid who grew up loving sports in Boston, and now I'm going to have a say on who gets to go to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, no question, uh spine tingling. Actually And the first time, this is the first time I did it was in nineteen ninety nine and two thousand when I was at The Inquirer, and then when I took the job, I had to give that up. But such as things have changed such that a lot of writers we've been around a long

time are now working for teams. So they actually changed the bye laws so I could, I could, I could uh yeah, b be a voter. Yeah, uh I you know, such as it is. But when I in my first room in ninety nine, Will McDonald was in there, which was a big That was that was that was my biggest Yeah, I mean yeah, it was okay, yeah, Lawrence Taylor, sure, I'll put him in. But the fact that I was sharing a room with Will mcdonnaugh. Was awesome to me because McDonald was a guy. He was a giant to me,

and a giant. McDonald was a He was a great guy. I mean, he was a guy. Todd Archer said it best. He didn't big time yet you know, he would call me. He would call me on the phone when I was covering the Bengals and oh my god, but he was doing his due diligence. I said, my god, why is Will mcdonna calling me? Because you know, to us, to me, to a guy growing up in Boston, Will mcdonnaugh, Peter Gammon's lee want for those guys are and still are the gold standard. And that was my big throw, was

sharing a room with Will McDonald. Yeah, you're right about him not big timing people. Because his son, Sean is obviously one of my closer friends from going to school with him, and I remember meeting Will and at that point he's at the height of his fame. He's on TV every week as an NFL insider, and he was the most normal. It's even hard to describe just how ordinary almost he came off. He was gay, Yeah, no, exactly. I Borge's Ron Borge' is also a great Willie's story.

Probably the ultimate is at at an owner's meeting and Willie was out playing tennis and he came back in and the other writers are grinding in the lobby and mcdonne's a big guy for one of the teams and said, you better make a call. Your coach is about to get caned, and kept walking, you know, kept walking through him. Probably save that guy's job because it was, you know, because it was true apparently, so you know, I mean,

as I'm sure it was. And uh, I remember one year, I think it was the year that herschel Walker came out and signed with the USFL. Any football story, will had it. I mean it was like that was the nineteen eighty two I remember it just stuck him out. I was like a Hall of Fame year because the USFL was coming out. I mean, he had Patriot's NFL USFL. He had it, he had the story. He was wiring and yet and yet you'd call it slept like me and since then, you know what I mean. So that

tells you tells you something about the guy. Yeah, I mean, Lap also describes meeting him as a high school football player is one of the greatest thrills of his life. He's seeing Laps getting ready to go off to college and Will shows up at one of his high school football practices to do a story and then Lap said, it was you know, it's like meeting a beatle. Yeah. Yeah, that's back when sports fighters are God. Now now I think they're just clerks, I guess, but uh, it's it's

not like it was. So in twenty eighteen, you wrote really the definitive history of the Bengals to date with the book This Date in Bengals History. How did it come about? Well, thank you for that. I don't know. Other guys like Chick Lugwig, they've had pretty good shots

at it too. Well, it was the fiftieth anniversary and one of the ideas, well, an idea I had was doing this, let's do it this day every day and we were going to do it for maybe six months until the end of the season, and I was kind of getting into it, and you know, I was thinking, geez, you know, the more I would research it, you know, there was just some interesting you know, every day seemed to have something, you know, it was really interesting, and

you really got to credit the guys who've covered the team back when it was the guys who have covered it at the beginning. And since I mean some great you know, some great reporters have covered this team and they had great nuggets. Is the great Dan Horde would say, we're always looking for nuggets, right, always for the homework, and these guys has had him, you know, so it

just kind of just kind of mushroom hardy. And I got to say, you know, the Emily Parker, the director of you know communications, she was so helpful and so encouraging and really got it done. If it hadn't been for her, it couldn't have got done. And uh, but it was you know, we thought it was a good thing for the club to get it, you know, to get something about, you know, to get something in a book. Because I told her, I said, she's I want to keep doing it. It was after the season. I said,

let's do the whole year. Let's do you know, the Bengals are worthy enough three hundred and sixty five days a year. And then I said, you know, if I do it, I let's put it in a book after it. And I thought it'd be easier to do it and I just put everything to get but it's not you know, like everything else. Really had no clue how how in depth that was going to be. But Emily, uh, you know, bailed me out there too, and you know it just kind of moreh from being a doing it this day

and Bengal Sister just putting them all together. Will you

write another book? I'd love to. I'd write the but it might just be another compilation of I'd like to do the best of Bengals dot Com because there has been, believe it or not, there has been some good that I have had time to write, some rather in depth stuff that I kind of you know, some stuff on Odell Thurman, you know, uh, Marvin Lewis when he first got hired, you know, some of the longer, longer pieces that I think would be worthy of maybe putting in

a book Bengals dot Com. But I think I'd also like to work on a I mean, I would like to work on a book. But you know how it is, hordy, you know, just getting from one day to the next, you know, that's that's the tough I don't know how these guys do it, who cover it beat and how they write books I mean, I just don't know how that they are. They're they're fabulous, because I it was just hard enough to do that book, and I hadn't and it was written already. I can't imagine what it's

like to write a book from scratch. I'm convinced that some people have more hours in their day than we do. I don't know, it's it's exact, actually right. I mean it's you know, you read these history books and it's you know, I mean it's depressing. I mean, look at what look at the work these guys did, you know, I mean Robert Carroll and his and his and his biography on Lyndon Johnson. I mean, that's all he must

have done. But he obviously he did other things. He mean, he had a family, he had I mean, how did he do all that? I don't I mean the same thing with Dob with David Hobbistan, who's my ultimate And

how did he do it? Before he passed? I mean he passed, he was he was out in Stanford, California, working on a book on y eight Tiddle when he actually got when he actually got killed in a carrec and you know he was still I mean, he was still I think he was like sixty six, sixty eight, maybe seventy, and he was still grinding it out these I don't know, Hordy, I don't know. I don't know. It's uh. You know what the Great Ray Oliver told me, the great Strength coach, one of my best friends. He

told me, he said, Butche never struck. He never struck because you're always trying to. You're trying to, you're trying to grind and go to the next thing, and there's always somebody better than you, so you can't struck. It's good advice. Never strike. Let's talk about this season to date, five and four basically at the midway point. I guess fifty three percent if you take nine out of seventeen games.

If somebody had said prior to the season, they're going to be five and four with road wins at Baltimore in Pittsburgh, you know, nobody should lie. Everybody would have signed up for that. But the last two weeks have been a huge disappointment. That takes some of the shine off of the accomplishment. Accomplishment obviously, yeah, it does. I mean, especially Green Bay. You know, you think about it's funny when you look at that thing in May and then

you live it. It's completely different, you know, And I gotta keep I gotta remember that when I write my schedules story when it's released. You know, it's just it's never the it's the world's completely different, you know, And you know it's this is an interesting team, you know, is this a probably, as last night proved, we're you know, we're doing this on a Friday morning, the day after the Ravens get clocked by the Dolphins. You know where we are part of this adventure. The Bengals are part

of this affection. I don't know what to call it, but anybody you know it's Pete Roselle's parody. But it's beyond that, you know what I mean. It's uh, every week changes. Now granted that doesn't take away what happened with the Jets and the Browns are going to have to be better, but you know, did this team arrive in Baltimore or was it? Is this part of the process. You have a breakthrough game, but then you get bounced in a game in games that you should win. Is

that part of the process? And I remember we talked to each other. You look, you know, we looked at each other after I think the Jets game and said, when has this happened? When have they had a breakthrough win followed by a game like that? And it's hard to get your finger on, but I could, you know, let's I mean, if you go back to two thousand and three and two thousand and four, they won eight eight both years before they found their footing in OH five?

Now is this so five? Is it O four? I guess we're going to find out, but you know it's it's OH five. They were a very accomplished team that they could have won the Super Bowl in OH four they were just kind of trying to find their footing with you know, they had some bad days in great days. Is this all four or five? We'll find out. I think we'll find out. I think this team does have. This team's obviously future is in front of it. But how are we in the near future? Five future? Where

are we? They're not as good as we thought they were after Baltimore. They're not as bad as they looked last week. I think five and four is where this team is right now. They've got eight games left, five at home. If they can win half of those games, which seems pretty reasonable to me. You know, you've got a winning season and who knows when one more than that, and you're probably will a playoff team, which is not

out of the question. I think you're right. I think they're five and four because the AFC is five and four, so they're in step. To me, the thing is defense because I think offensively, I mean, I don't know. Borrow doesn't have to do anything for me. He's he's real, he's a real deal. I'm not going to get excited about the eleven interceptions. Quarterbacks throw interceptions. I get it. It was a bad one. To ninety nine yard was a bad one. But this kid's you can win a

super Bowl with this guy. But to me, it's the defense because I think with a guy like Burrow and a defense that's fourteen fifteen sixteen, you get a shot. You get a shot, you know, but you can't give up five bills to Mike White, you know, because your quarterback goes out there and get your thirty one points on the road. Those are the games you have to win, right and I think they win most of them because I think this defense is I think this defense is

at the very least fourteen fifteen sixteen. It's certainly it certainly costs that much, you know, And I think they're thinking the same thing. Hey, we got a quarterback that can take us there, and we got to you know, and at least a better than average defense that ought to be enough, you know. And I think, you know, I mean, I you know, they they've got to work it out. But I think that I don't think the defense is bad. Is as bad as it's been the

last two two weeks, and it better not be. But because I think, you know, because I think they, like I said, I think I think Borrowing Company is good enough. Our eyes did not deceive us in the first seven weeks when the defense played lights out. Now, admittedly they had some games there against teams that are not offensive juggernauts, and that helps your stats, but it wasn't flukey. There

was nothing flukey about the first seven games. And the Cleveland game is a little bit flukey because you've got a ninety nine yard pick six, You've got a drive that started at the eight after another interception, got a drive that started at the thirty because of a fumble. That's how games get ugly. Yeah, So the Jets game was a lousy performance on defense. There's no other word to describe it. The Cleveland game to me is a little bit flukey because of the turnovers and because you

gave up two huge plays. That's the only worried to me about that about the Cleveland game was the sixty yard There was a seventy yard run. They haven't done that, and you can't do it. They've been so good, they've been so good preventing that, and that just kind of came out of nowhere. But I guess, you know, I guess you're a log one, right, you're a loug one. I mean I think that you know, and the big play that you know, the sixty yard passed you can't.

Those are the two plays that bad to me. Everything else I think, you know, I think you do put that. I think you do put the Jets game in. Zach. Put the Jets game on the offense because you felt like, you know, the big defense head played like you said, the defense played so well for seven games, Hey bail him out. And to me, you can't throw a pick with four thirty six left in a five point lead. Whether you want to put that on the call the quarterback, I don't know, but you know you have to come

out of that drive. If you have to come out of that, you've got to train at least a minute a minute thirty out of that. I don't blame the defense for that, all right. I was on a podcast last week with Bengals super fan and podcasters Zim who Day, and during the course of our conversation, he put me on the spot and asked me to name my top

five Bengals of all times. So, off the top of my head, I said, Dave Lapham, easy, number one, pick YEP, Anthony Munio's, Chad Johnson, A. J. Green, and Boomer Assiason, And a week later, giving it some thought, I'm not sure I would change. So I feel pretty good that off the top of my head, that's what I came up with as my top five. But it gave me the inspiration to do some lists with you. So these aren't going to be off the top of our heads. I gave you the top advance and we're not going

to do the top five. We're going to do the top three in a few different categories and we will each give our answers. So our first category is top three most memorable games. So these aren't necessarily favorite games, biggest wins. These are most memorable games. You go first, Blake Amabia, Jeff Blake's first NFL start when he almost beat the Super Bowl champion Cowboys. That's one. Corey Dylan going for two seventy eight against the Broncos. I mean

that was unbelievable with two past completions all day. Yeah, two of fourteen. As as Dylan as I as still in a grades. Somebody will break the record and they'll keep breaking the record, but nobody will do what he did. That thing on twenty two carries with basically you know automatic quarterback that we played with on the streets. Yeah, and go passes is completed after the first quarter. Unbelievable. Yeah, no, right, um.

And then so that okay, those two and then I tell you what the Zim game in Baltimore October eleventh, o nine, when Vicky zim Zim's wife had passed tragically after practice Thursday, and he still coached the game, and he went down there with the team and he was went down there and he coached the game and they and they shackled the Ravens. I mean they beat him.

I mean they beat him at the end. It took him, you know, they held him, They held him the fourteen points and they had to win it on a touchdown drive at the end and Carson Palmer from to Andre Callwell with what twenty seconds left. That was unbelievable. So those are my three. The Blake game, the DWN game, and the Zoom game. All right, my three. And like I said, these are memorable. These are not necessarily fond memories. But I've got to go with the playoff loss to

the Steelers in January of twenty sixteen. For this reason, montest Perfect made the interception and we thought the game was over. That's the happiest I have ever been in my life. Yea, more than my wedding day, more than the birth of Sam Horde. For about a ninety second span, that is literally the happiest I have ever been in my life. And then Jeremy Hill fumbled and so much for that, right, that's a good you know, I think that moment gave rise to Elizabeth Blackburn, who just came

to the to the Canopy crazies. I think, you know, Elizabeth has come in in the last year. Mike's granddaughter, Troy and Troy and Katie's daughter and had some very really good fan engagement ideas. But I think they were born after talking to her, I think they're born out of those ninety seconds, because she's you know, she's Bengals through and through. And my kids were there and they were weeping, they were dancing and weeping any aisles, you know. I had a great first three graph score. He that

never saw it a way to day. I did go back the next day. I got out my Runners watch and I timed in real time the amount of time that passed between the interception and the Jeremy Hill fumble, and off the top of my head, I think it was literally ninety two seconds. So I just wanted to know how long the happiest moment of my life lasted, and it was ninety two seconds. Doesn't it seem like it would have been longer than that though, interception, change

of sides, the whole thing. Doesn't it feel like that would have been a few minutes. I guess they didn't. I mean, I guess they didn't even go to commercial. I guess no commercial. Yeah, two seconds, all right? Number two on my list, though it's it's also Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and that would be the game two days before Christmas in twenty twelve when the Bengals made the playoffs and knocked the Steelers out on the same day at Hinesfield, Josh Brown with a kick with eight seconds to go.

Because to me, that game epitomizes is what I love about pro football. It was a war Jo you know, Haymakers being thrown all day and his hits and plays on both sides. Reggie Nelson comes up with a pick, Andy completes the past the Hey, j Josh Brown kicks the field goal, and you know it's Christmas two days early and Lap going through that I was remembered the Lap going through the locker room, Geno Atkins, Geno Atkins,

because that was Gino was huge that day. Yeah, and uh and you know, and that was a calling card game, how we you know, how we talked about this year Baltimore being the this team's calling card. That was the calling card I think for the Green Balton Bengals two thousand and eleven wasn't a fluke. Hey, they were going back to the play. They were going back to the play. That game put him back in the playoffs for the

second spay year. Kind of like the kind of like the two thousand and four Ravens game with Carson in December, the twenty four point fourth quarter, that was the Marvin Lewis calling card. I think, so yeah, twenty twelve, that's that's that's a great one. And the third memorable game on my list, excuse me. August of twenty eleven, Detroit

thirty four Cincinnati three. That was my first preseason game with Lap, and I just remember being on the bus after the game getting ready to drive to the airport in Detroit to fly home. I'm like so happy. This was fun. I know me and Lap are going to be a good tandem together. And I'm looking around at everybody else on the bus and everybody else has long faces. They're like, holy cow, we're gonna be terrible this year.

Dalton's not ready. We only won four games of the year before, and I just like want to hug people because I'm so happy. Then I'm going to be doing an NFL teams games on the radio. And even though they got smoked in Detroit, that was that was a

memorable night for me. Absolutely. I mean, you grew up in the you know, you grew up, grew up right outside Buffalo, and you know you grew up listening to those guys, and you know you're talking into a tape recorder, you know, and talking into a tape recorder when you were at eight night, ten years old. Yes, you'd be able to be able to do that. That had to be. You know, who care if Sue Sue put Andy on his head and I like snap his career? Correct? I was?

I think that was his first pass in a preseason game and Dona Consue tried to kill him. Yeah, all right? Our second top three list, Top three Bengals interview subjects. Who do you have Boomer? Boomer Boomer? I would think no, you know Boomers Boomers at the top of that list. You're talking about players or just subjects, right? Just I mean players. I mean the guys that you either enjoyed talking to the most or who gave you the best stuff.

Best best Bengals to interview Boomer, Willie Anderson, Andrew Whitworth. You know those are the uh none better? I don't know. I can't imagine there'd be anybody, there'd be three guys better from any other franchise because those guys are those guys are a gold Standard. It was interesting that William Wick played the same position, you know, on the offensive line. Uh. You know, when I grew I grew up in an era where the offensive lineman was supposed to be dumb.

You know, those are the two smartest guys I've ever met, you know. And uh and of course Boomers Boomer, I mean, you know, uh, you know, Boomer Boom is another guy that billed me out. You know. Uh, he's a guy. And I was just talking with us to uh Steve Survey when we were down in New York. Uh Steve Survey, the great New York Post calumnist, and uh, you know whenever, you know, he could always get the Boomer. He could always seem to get the Boomer when he needed him.

You know, Boomer would even call him, you know, uh, because he just knew that Servey needed him or then we need him. You know, Boomer, he's got a great feel for them. I mean, he's in the media anyway, and he he was an intern. I I think when he was in college he interned in the business. You know, he wanted to be a media guy if it didn't work out in sports. I want to say that he interned at the same station. I think that the Oprah Winfrey did at the same time. I want to say

in Baltimore. I believe when he was in Maryland. I've got Whitworth on my list. Excuse me again, oddful, smart, totally got it, was always there when you needed him. I'd argue with Andrew Whitworth. Mike Daniels makes my list now. Unfortunately, because he's been on the practice squad this year, we haven't really been talking to him. I did the week before Bengals played Green Bay. That was a good saw by the way, that that was an excellent call. I should have done that. He was good. He was good.

I think Mike Daniels is going to be a broadcasting star. You know, he was a good enough player that networks will want him. You know, went to a Pro Bowl, he was on the top one hundred list a few times. And he's just got great feel. He's always enthusiastic, he's got a good sense of humor. I think Mike Daniels has a chance to being of being a really prominent broadcaster.

And then my third always surprises people, Adam Jones, because he is the one Bengal who is truly unfiltered incapable of just you know, spewing cliches and doing kind of the bull Durham interview. He just shot you straight. Wasn't always the best thing for him to do, but it was always fun to be on the other end because you never quite knew what you're going to get. Yeah, there was some other he's He's probably at the top of a of a bunch of guys that didn't use

a filter. And you know, you try to protect those guys too if they go, if they overdo it, you do try. You can't protect them nowadays. You know, back in the day you could if you thought he kind of went, if you thought, you know, I think we've both been in that situation where boy, I'd love to use this, but it's just going to kill the guy, right, You know, there have been there. You know. I'll tell you another guy who could shoot you straight two is

TJ houshman Zada. He would he would say stuff that would kind of make it. I don't know, you sure you wanted Harmon to read that, you know, but Tjo was a good one you TJ would, uh, he was. He was a classic unfilter as well, no question, all right, how about top three underappreciated Bengals players. No, for some reason, when I saw that, the kickers came to mind, and and two guys came to mind, Jim Breach and Doug Pelfrey. Jim Breech was the Super Bowl kicker, won a lot

of big games. I mean, got the record right nine for nine and overtime over the right about that that's just huge. I mean, every other week there's a guy winking the goal post that uh, you know, I mean, and this guy, this guy did it. This guy never missed an overtime pretty good. And Pelfrey played on a very tough stretch in Bengals history in the nineties from ninety four to like ninety six. He won a third of their games the gun, you know, which is to me,

that's kind of you never really think. I went back when I when when when McPherson, uh and Mason Crosby had their thing in the Green Bay game. I went back and talked to Pelfrey, who was who. By the way, I think he's like the rest of us. He thinks McPherson is going to be the greatest kicker in Bengals history. Yeah, but you know, you just kind of that made me think of how how good Doug had been. And I so those two guys, I think lead my at least

appreciate it. And then I think, you know, probably you'd have to go with either James Brooks or Rodney Holman there the U. I mean, Holman was the best all around tight end that's ever been here, and with you know, with Trump, Trump, he probably be in a close second. And you know, Brooks was, Brooks was, Brooks was unbelievable for a four year stretch. I'm gonna start with Andy for obvious reasons. You know, I'm not jesting. He was

the greatest quarterback in Bengals history. He had his deficiencies, but he was never truly appreciated until he was on his way out the door. While he was leading the Bengals to five straight playoff appearances, it seemed like everybody was always looking to try to get somebody better. And then when it was clear that his tenure in Cincinnati was going to end, he was loved. What a shame, What a shame that he wasn't embraced when he was

at his peak. No Bengal quarterback has done what he's done five in a row, five playoffs in a row. I mean that's not Kenny, not Boomer, not Casson, I mean, you know, I mean that's you know, I mean, and yeah he did. He took a lot of grief. My second one actually would be somebody that you mentioned earlier, Corey Dillon. I mean, as great as Corey was, he has a Hall of Fame resume and he won't get in.

I mean you know this better than I do from being on the committee because of his personality, which is a shame. He ran for more and oj he had two of the best games in history. As soon as he was on a good team. He was the best player on a Super Bowl team. He checks everything on the list except for being prickly with the media. Yeah,

I think. Plus he was on bad I think he's one of these many guys to pay the price for being on a bad team, you know, and they just don't get those the players on And I've said this admiseum the Hall of Fame has too many good players on great teams and not enough great players who deserved me in from bad or mediocre teams. Dylan and Willie

Anderson are the centerpieces for that. I'm gonna cheat for my third person, I'm gonna say Marvin because by the time Marvin was let go or mutual decision, however, do you want to phrase that he was let go, all people could talk about was the O and seven playoff record, and no one remembered what it was like before he took the job in two thousand and three. I mean, to consistently have the Bengals contend and the toughest division in the NFL was a hack of an accomplican. Yeah,

I think you're exactly right. I mean this guy, uh, he brought he brought the Bengals into the NFL and of the twenty first century with his sheer will of personality. Um. And that for that he should be on I mean, if he's not on Bengals Model Rushmore, then he would be on the He's on the Seven Blocks of Granite. I mean, he's that. You know, he's a top ten

figure in franchise history, you know. Um. I think also too, people don't people forget, um, he won two division titles with two different quarterbacks and I don't know how many you know. I mean, that's that's that's that's a pretty good feat. Uh, And I you know it shows you his staying power. I think his skill as a communicator and getting them all, you know, and getting in and finding finding players and motivating them, I think is a And then he was a great. Uh he was. He

was a great. He was a great recruiter. He was you know, he was the franchise as best recruiters. So yeah, I think that's a that's a good pick. He did cheat at that. You went to the coach. It's good though. I mean, yeah, hey, look the estros they got into the world. See, I'm banging on a trash can. Whatever it takes. All right, our final top three, top three what ifs enfranchise history. We could do thirty apiece in this one, but we're each going to pick out three. Yep,

I go feel free, Okay. Louis Phillips catches the interception, Joe Montana's interception. Uh, Jeremy Jeremy Hill doesn't fumble the ball. I mean, this is easy stuff, right, Uh. And geez, I don't know, I got I think there. I think everything else pills and compare some of those two because those are I don't want to say life changing, but yeah, I'll say life changing. Okay, Okay, And if Shane Graham makes the overtime, makes the kick at the gun against

Pittsburgh in OH six. That's a real life changer. They go to the playoffs two years in a row, OH seven and O eight, probably, you know, maybe don't happen. I'd like to see, you know how that old five team it didn't really it didn't really carry over like they thought because they didn't make it an six seven eight underachieved? But what if they go to the playoffs two years in a row? So those are my thought. Three? All right, I'm going to the way back machine. Greg

Cook's injury, Yeah, biggest what if enfranchise history? So Bill Walsh famously said he was the most talented quarterback he ever coached. Joe Montana turned out to be pretty good. I wonder what a healthy Greg Cook and Paul Brown if that would have been Belichick and Brady. I mean, they wouldn't have won six Super Bowls? But would they have won two? Would Paul have kept coaching past seventy five? He wasn't that old? I mean, if he had the best quarterback in the NFL, would they have been the

Steelers of the nineteen seventies? Oh, Mike Brown thinks so Mike. Mike is pretty sure that Cook was the best you ever saw. For a second one. I'm also going to twenty fifteen, but before the Jeremy Hill fumble. I'm going to say the Andy Dalton broken thumb because they were the best team in the NFL to that point, or at least one of them. They would have been the number one playoff seed in the AFC at the time

at ten and two, he breaks his thumb. AJ mccaron did a heck of a job down the stretch, but they averaged seven fewer points with him at quarterback than they did before Andy got hurt and he was in the discussion for MVP. I think they went a home playoff game against the Steelers with Andy Dalton playing instead of AJ, because even though AJ led them to take the lead with less and two minutes to go, we really struggled for the first three quarters of that game.

So the Andy Andy broken thumb is on my list. That's a go. I think I would have like to have played the Jets. I think I liked would have liked to have had McCarron against the Jets that game. I think didn't the Jets have if the Jets won. I think the Steelers were up. I think the final game between Steelers and Jets, I don't. I don't know who it was between the I think the Jets had to win. Fitz he had to win and they didn't. That's right, I think. Yeah, So forgetting who they who,

they lost too. But that's that gave the Steelers the final playoff spot because the Jets lost their regular season finale would have been it would have been mccaren vers Fitzy and a great Dalton backup verse, Carson backup right. And for my third and final one who we're thinking

same very similarly. So you take the Billups interception drop and then Joe Montana threw a touchdown pass on the next play, not on the final drop with some people remember inaccurately, but earlier in the fourth quarter of that game. But I'll take crum Ride breaking his leg. You know, short shortly into that Super Bowl. You've got the best defensive interior alignment and franchise history right up there with Gino.

I mean, if he plays that whole game, do the forty nine Ers have any chance of marching down the field on the final drive to lead to Montana to Taylor, probably not out of crum rides getting in Joe Montana's face every other pass drop. Some would say what if a goal ad blitz? Right? Some what if in low bullet blitzer the last five? Or on the fortieth anniversary?

Why don't we ask what if the Bengals had scored on the goal lines, on the goal line stand the Niners staged in the Pontiac Do they do they pull off one of the greatest comeback? Do they pull off the Patriots Falcons come back forty years earlier? If they punch it in there? Neither one of us shows not taking the Saints offer for the entire draft. To take

take that one's too painful, a whole lot. If to take a Killy Smith instead, well, you know what, and probably it would have been better off taking a deal because you wouldn't have taken Achille. But you know the Saints, you know you got seven guys, and I think what Ricky Williams right, that's what you would have got him, that you would have got. I mean, you would have got their whole draft, right, you know, it would have been like seven just guys. Maybe who knows, You never know.

The Redskins did get Champ Bailey from the Redskins made the trade, and they wound up with champ Bailey as the best player of the ones they selected, though he was obviously great, but you never know, the Bengals might not have taken Champile. Yeah, I mean and and great. Okay, you gave us your draft, but how many guys are how many drafted guys are really going to come out

worth that third? Right? Right? All right? We're gonna wrap this up with something that I typically do when I'm doing I find facts interviews during the course of the week, A few wild card categories for Jeff Hobson, who is your all time favorite athlete in any sport? And why Tony Knnigliero. He was a Boston kid hit a home run in his first hit back at Fenway Pack. He was nineteen years old, I believe, the youngest American League

home run champion. Everything. I was not mattinee Idol. He could sing, but he did what every Boston kid wanted to do. I mean, this guy, he was living a dream and then he had everything, and then suddenly he had nothing. He got hit in the eye, he almost get killed. He missed a year, and he came back opening Day nineteen sixty nine hit I think he scored the tying run in the ninth in Baltimore and hit a two run homer I think in the tenth to win it, and his first came back. I mean, he

came back. I mean, the guy came back in sixty nine, played two more years, the eye failed him again, and then he came back like four years later. He actually won a roster spot with his seventy five Red Sox. A lot of people forget that, and he finally retired after he pulled a hamstring in May. But to me, he he didn't quit, you know, I mean, he just he kept coming back. I mean, the guy had everything and then it was gone, and he was just I mean to be you know, to get hit in the

face like that and then to come back. And he hit twenty homers in his first year back, and then he hit thirty six homers year after that after nearly getting killed. I don't know. To me, he you know, one of my great thrills was somehow I ended up. I went to the first two games at the seventy five playoffs, and somehow he was popped out of a crowd and I said, Tony, I just saw him there, and he goes, what And I just said, I just

want to shake his hand. And that's the only time I ever got the only time I ever got to see. That's still your Twitter image the Sport illustrated cover of his Black Eye. Yeah, that's still to me. You know, the guy came back. Man, he didn't eat, didn't quit. Awesome. What's your all time favorite book? Ball four? No question? Uh? That came out in nineteen seventy. I was eleven years old,

probably pretty pretty racy for eleven. Well, my grandparents gave it to me too, so you know, which's amazing, which is amazing still inscribed. I got it still inscribed, And of course they obviously didn't realize, you know, if they had seen May twenty seconds, but uh what he said to sell Magan, you know, they wouldn't have bought. They

wouldn't have bought the book. You know. Uh, probably learned more about the birds and the bees reading that them, you know, uh than the conversation with Roy Hobson, you know, so uh so that you know, and it was just it really you know, it could have turned you off I guess if you were. But it was just so. It was funny. It was these guys were human beings, you know. I mean I still remember the stories in there. It was so and actually it was it was really

I mean it was Bouten wrote the book. Jim Boughten, obviously, but it was Jim Boughten talking in the tape machine with a great insight. But it was Leonard Scheckter who the editor, who wrote it and put it together and genius, you know. But yeah, no, no, I mean I still remember the anecdotes, or still sit with me today. I remember talking to John Kennedy was a character. I mean, he was in that book. He was a suit. He was a played for the Pilots. Later became super sub

with the Red Sox in the early seventies. Became a scout for the Red Sox. And I was working in May, and I was working in May and I was a sports columnist. He came a scout a game. So we got to talking and chatting with him on did your Greeny kick in yet? You know, you know, John Kennedy talk to me for the rest of the later left in that inning at least, probably not a fond memory

for him having that exposed in the book. But if you go back and you look at ball far, I think it was John Kennedy said, Hey, my Greeny hadn't kicked in yet or something. I can still remember this stuff. You know that book. Did that book influential decision to get into this business, probably one of them. But I think the biggest influence was just waking up every day

and reading the reading the Boston papers. You know, my I you know, we had to sneak in the Boston Herald at the time when I was coming of age, you know, eight nineteen years old. The Herald had the best sports section the Boston Globe. But the Boston Globe yet over had yet to overtake them with the young guns of McDonough and Gammons and month Field, so they had they still had Tim Morgan and guys like that or Bill Listen, you know, the Herald did, but we couldn't.

My father and I had to sneak in the Herald because there was a publican paper that had backed Nixon, and my mother didn't want it in the house, so we had to we had to seek in the Herald sports section. The Globe was fine. We had what we had both the Morning Globe and the Evening Globe. So I was able to that. I think that well, flip didn't hurt, But it was the newspapers, the Boston newspapers. They got me in all right. Last category for a

Butch Hobson. If you can meet anybody in history, athlete, actor, statesman, whoever it might be, who would that person be, Well, I'm not going to be able to talk by Jackson Common, who went with Leon L. Da Vinci. That was that was very impressive there what I had. I had to struggle there, you know, Hordy. But I came down with John Lewis closely eked out John Kennedy. My ultimate would be if I could have a coffee with John Lewis

and Jack Kennedy would be my ultimate. But if I if it's gonna be one, it's gonna be John Lewis, the late congressman from Georgia, who was such a who was a freedom writer and it was such a huge factor in the civil rights movement. I mean, this guy literally gave his gave his blood on the bridge at Edmund Pettis, And I guess that's something that I would That's another story I would put in my next book. I would hope would be Michael Johnson going back to Selma, Alabama,

across the bridge with Barack Obama. That's pretty good. But Lewis was in on that too, and on that, you know, on that, I think it was the It would have been the fiftieth I guess in twenty fifteen of the March. But yeah, John Lewis, I mean, he was a guy.

He grew up a poor in Alabama, and he would he wanted to be a preacher, and he would preach to the chickens in the in the farmhouse, you know, and and he rose to become you know, he was one of the speakers in the match out Washington, and it was such a vaulatile speech that Martin Luther King Junior had to pull him aside at the moment the Wink Memorial and had to go had to edit his speech there and take out what he thought was a little bit in flam to. So, yeah, I'd like to

I'd like to talk to John Lewis about that. What exactly the doctor King and he talked about in the moments before he stepped to the left turn in the March. Yeah, that's John Lewis, my guy. Yeah, it's a great, great selection, really good stuff. This has been fun, but I really appreciate It's no Leonardo division. But leave it to Horny to get I'll tell you, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad. I'm glad you appear on the website because you're so good at what you do. You make me compete with you.

I get I get mad when I see you have a guy that I should have had, or a topic I should have had. You're one of the best. I'm glad you're here because you keep me, you keep me, you keep me going. I'm trying to beat you. Well, we're all on the same team. And I appreciate the fact that you are so competitive that you want to be pushed every day. I think that's a wonderful trait we share. That competition is one of the best things

about this job. The desire try to have something first or ba every day is one of the things that makes us so much fun. Honestly, I've been in this thing for forty years and one of the best things about it was I met you, and I can call my friend. And I mean that from one of my heart right there with you, and sometime we'll do a podcast about the night we spent together in a minor league broadcasting booth. I think that's one. I think that the one, and we should get Brad Pitt in there too,

in the role of Billy Bean. Yeah. I still don't know what it was. You are off the hot seat. Have a great weekend. I will see you in Paul Brown Stadium next week. Hort. I know you don't have a Bengals call, but I always like to tell you have a good call with the Bearcatt Hi. Thanks to Jeff Hobson Man. That's going to do it. For this episode of the Bengals Booth podcast, brought to you by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play Next Level Fantasy Football game,

downloaded now from the App Store and Google Play. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for listening to the Bengals boot Podcast.