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Bengals Booth Podcast: I'll Take You There

Mar 02, 202443 min
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Episode description

It’s the “I’ll Take You There” edition of the Bengals Booth Podcast as Dan Hoard takes us to the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Dan's guests include Greg Cosell from NFL Films, NFL Network insider Ian Rapoport, and The Athletic’s draft guru Dane Brugler.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading The Bengals Booth Podcast. The I'll take you their addition as we head to Indianapolis for the NFL Scouting Combine. Coming up, you'll hear from three outstanding guests, Red co Sell from NFL Films, NFL Network insider, Ian Rappaport, and

Dane Brugler, NFL draft expert for the Athletic. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health, the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is

the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Peter King. This past Monday and his weekly Football Morning in America column, Peter King announced that he's retiring after covering the NFL for forty four years. It's worth noting that he got his start covering the Bengals

for the Cincinnati Inquirer. I've been a fan of his for ages, and when I got the Bengals play by play job, I made it a point to try to talk with Peter whenever he was around the team. In one of our first conversations, Peter learned that I used to be the radio announcer for the Patucket Red Sox, Boston's Triple A team at that time, and he began peppering me with questions how long were the bus rides? Well, were Dustin PEDROI and John Lester like at that age?

The questions kept coming, and I realized that's what makes Peter so great, his unquenchable curiosity and attention to detail. There has never been a better sp reporter. Monday mornings aren't going to be quite as enjoyable for us, but I'm happy they are going to be a lot more relaxing for Peter King. Now let's get to the scouting combine.

It's become the unofficial start of the upcoming NFL season, as front office execs, coaches, scouts, and media to send on Indianapolis to get a first hand look at this year's draft prospects, and discuss possible moves in free agency. One person I always look forward to talking to is Greg Cosel from NFL Films and the ESPN Matchup Show. He's been covering the NFL for more than four decades. Greg, let's start with some of the hottest topics among Bengals fans.

Top of the list, T Higgins. They have franchise tagged him. They're going to have him for at least one more year with the likelihood of losing Tyler Boyd. Was paying tea the right thing to do in your opinion?

Speaker 2

I really like Tyler Boyd, but I think it's more important to have T.

Speaker 3

Higgins than Tyler Boyd.

Speaker 2

And I'm not suggesting that you can just pull a slot receiver out of the sky, but I think it's a position that you can find someone in the context of that offense more so than you can find to T Higgins. T Higgins is six three two fifteen. He's a vertical dimension. He runs those in breaking routes really well. People take those inbreaking routes in traffic for granted, you know, because borrow's are really a borrow turns the ball loose.

He's got no problem turning a loose. And those inbreaking routes in traffic, you know those Not every receiver will do that, and I think you can't take those for granted. So T Higgins was a player. I really like Ronicky Manaclemson.

He's had a really good career. Obviously he's been injured a little bit here and there, but I think he's if you had to choose one, and teams have to make these kinds of choices, as you know, Dan, they have to make these kinds of choices, I think T Higgins is a more valuable asset overall than Tyler Boyd, that he's less replaceable.

Speaker 1

Is spending twenty point six million dollars on T Higgins the best use of that money to try to keep the band together, so to speak, for another year.

Speaker 2

Well, now that gets into a lot of questions that I don't have the answer to because of how they the cap and how they structure and work their cap. I know the cap went up significantly, so I don't know how all that works. I will say this, I think that when you have a great quarterback, and I don't use the word great loosely, and Joe Burrow is a great quarterback. You do not want to leave him bereft of weapons. I always think that, you know, we all know you want a good old line.

Speaker 3

We get all that. I mean, that's a given.

Speaker 2

But I do not think when you have a really great quarterback, a high level quarterback, that you do not want to leave him bereft of what, particularly a quarterback that is aggressive throwing the ball versus one on one coverage. That's one thing we've seen with Joe Burrow. When it's one on one, he's going to throw it, and that's just innate. He's he's gonna throw it. And you need receivers who can win one on one and win in

multiple ways. You know, Chase is an explosive guy. He can make contested catches, but he's such an explosive mover and route runner. Higgins not as explosive, but big and he'll go up and get it. And you know, I think that receivers become really important. You do not want to leave the cupboard bear when you have a quarterback like Joe Burrow.

Speaker 1

Let's move to tight end. I know you've studied brock Bowers. If you surveyed one hundred Bengals fans. He would probably be the fantasy draft pick for most of them. We don't know if he'll be there at number eighteen. It's probably unlikely. But how good is Brock Bowers?

Speaker 2

I mean, Brock Bowers on tape is really really good. He moves like a wide receiver. He in some ways is a wide receiver. Although I will say this because Georgia does run more of a conventional NFL type offense with a kind of a conventional run game.

Speaker 3

He does work to block.

Speaker 2

I mean, he's obviously not the best block tight end, but he he gives effort and he works at it. And I remember having a conversation years ago with a coach who was on the chief Skansas City Chiefs when Tony Gonzalez came up, and he was a great athlete, played basketball, you know, a receiver, and they said he was not a good blocker, but they said he worked at it, and as long as you work at it.

Speaker 3

You can be more than functional.

Speaker 2

And Bowers is that guy. He can be more than functional as a blocker. Of course, it depends how you deploy him. But he is a really good receiver. The issue is, and we've seen this with other athletic tight ends. Sometimes I feel like teams struggle with how to deploy those guys within the context of their offense. And one coach was saying that, you know, you look, Atlanta sort of had a difficult time figuring out Kyle Pitts exactly how to use him, really athletic tight end who I

believe was the fourth pick in the draft. I mean, sometimes, you know, we know that obviously the Chiefs Hughes Kelsey have used him really well, but some coaches it's kind of a balancing act of how do you use those guys? But Bowers is phenomenal, looks like a wide receiver, moves like a wide receiver, ridiculously good run after catch, balance, body control. I mean, guy looks like a ballerina.

Speaker 3

Sometimes.

Speaker 1

The Bengals typically have not relied heavily on their tight end during the Zach Taylor, Joe Burrow era. They've had solid production cj Uzama, Hayden Hurst, even Tanner Hudson gave them some decent production this past season. Is that a position that they should be looking to get more out of.

Speaker 2

Well, there's so many targets to go around, that's the problem. I mean, you know, for the last three years or so, I mean with Burrow, they've had Higgins, Chase and Boyd. I mean it's easy to say, throw the ball to the tight end more, but then someone else is not getting the ball. So that gets into the whole process of how they structure their offense methodology. You know, what's the approach coach, Then what's the approach then in a

given week against a given opponent. You know, I think it's easy to look at a number on a page and see targets go, well, they got to use a tight end more.

Speaker 3

But there's only so many balls to go around.

Speaker 2

So if they lose Boyd and maybe they feel they don't have the same quality slot this year, then maybe the tight end, whoever it turns out to be, would become a bigger factor. But when you've got three wide outs like that, you know, imagine if all of a sudden they were throwing the ball. I mean fans may not think of it this way. Imagine if all of a sudden they were throwing the ball to you know, Uzama, who you know wasn't there this year, but ten or whoever was, And then you look at the sheet and

you see Chase only has three targets. People would say, well, why aren't they throwing the ball to Jamar Chase. There's only so many balls to go around, so many passes.

Speaker 1

We're visiting with a great Greg Cosell. Let's talk about Joe Mixon, another hot topic for Bengals fans. He ran for more than a thousand yards. He had twelve combined touchdowns between rushing and receiving this year, but the explosive plays weren't there. He'll be twenty eight and this is going to be his eighth NFL season. What do you think of Joe Mixon at this stage of his career.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think he's lost a little bit, just because he's played a long time. He's been kind of a volume carrier. He's a physical player, so I mean, I'm sure there's wear and tear. I always really like Joe Mixon as a player. I think he's had a really nice career, probably still a good player, and certainly knows the system and all those things that are very important.

By the way, but if they truly felt like they could be better at the position without losing anything mentally from whoever they put out there, it would not surprise me. If they felt that they could move on. I just watching him run, and like I said, I remember watching him in Oklahoma and he was a great receiver. They split him out there. He was a great runner. He was an explosive back early in his career. So I just think he's not quite the same guy. Let's talk

about Dax Hill. I know you liked him coming out of Michigan. This was his first year as a starter and it was a mixed bag.

Speaker 1

What'd you think of Dax Hill this year at safety?

Speaker 3

Just what you said.

Speaker 2

I think that he doesn't see it as quickly as you want, you know. But again, he's still a young player. Second year, right, this will be his third. He didn't play much as a rugie, right, so he's basically been a one year player at safety. So these are the hard questions organizations have to decide the guy.

Speaker 3

And it's funny.

Speaker 2

I had a chance yesterday to sit and talk with Jim Harbaugh for a half hour in the Dome, and I asked him about Dax Hill.

Speaker 3

I was just curious, you know, because.

Speaker 2

I didn't want to ask him about his player, you know, So I asked him about Bax Hill and he said that he wants to be a safety because they they really wanted him to be a corner because he's got great corner traits, But he wants to be a safety. So the sort of the compromise at at Michigan was that they made him their nickel in you know, in their sub defenses. But he wants to be a safety. He does not want to play outside corner, even though

he has those trades. I think you have to give him another year to see because he is a he's a physical specimen, he can run.

Speaker 3

He just he's a great athlete. He's a great athlete and he's long.

Speaker 2

So to me, you have to work with him, coach him, and if he can get beyond that and see things better, he could become a really, really good player.

Speaker 1

Jonah Williams is heading into free agency. The Bengals are likely to have a different starting right tackle for the fifth consecutive year. Year be a fifth consecutive year. Yeah, do you consider this to be an unusually good tackle draft as many people do?

Speaker 3

Yeah? I do.

Speaker 2

I mean, again, you don't know how boards play out, and you don't know how drafts play out, but my guess is there'd be a tackle there at eighteen if they felt they needed They're not going to get Jesse Latham. They're probably not going to get the Oregon State kid Fuaga,

who I really love. But yeah, I mean, I think there's tackles to get and even beyond pick eighteen, you know, the question, the big question always becomes can the guy line up and play as a rookie, because that's what you're ultimately saying, if they need to fill the position. You know, if they draft a guy in the third round, the likelihood of him stepping in as a starter. You Know, what people I think need to understand about the draft is there's reasons. You know, guys get drafted where they

get drafted. Now that doesn't mean that there's nine examples where fourth round picks come right in and play and they're really good.

Speaker 3

You know, obviously that does happen.

Speaker 2

But in terms of overall evaluation of players, as you get lowered in the draft, it's because there are more wharts in a guy's game in terms of projection and transition. So but there are guys I think in this you know, there's a Patrick Paul from Houston. You know, guys like that that you may well be able to get in the third round, and I don't know if he's a Day one starter.

Speaker 3

Maybe he is, but you can get a tackle in this draft.

Speaker 1

Let me hit you on some of the other first round candidates. Assuming you're right and Fuaga and Latham are not there, most of the other people I've talked to don't think Alt will be there from Notre Dame. Maybe you disagree, but then you've got Fashanu from Penn State, Mims from Georgiatanu from Washington, Fantanu from Washington, ye, Geidon from Oklahoma. Any of those guys really move yet.

Speaker 2

I haven't done guid And yet, so I can't speak about him, and he you know, but he's a one year starter and a one year player. Mims is probably the most intriguing and most polarizing tackle in this draft class because he's played about as much football as you and I, but yet his size and his traits get people excited. I'd be very surprised if he's a Day one starter, be very surprised. He just hasn't played a lot of football.

Speaker 3

You know.

Speaker 2

The game that people point to is actually the game against Ohio State back two years ago, you know, in the playoff game, because he played the full game, but this year he was in and out of the lineup because he was hurt. His tape to me wasn't very good, but I'm loath to judge him on that because it was clear he was hurt. So he just hasn't played a lot of football. Now, that doesn't mean in three

years he might not be a great right tackle. I spoke with someone who thinks that this guy could be phenomenal, but he's not going to be ready week one.

Speaker 3

So again, now you get into the free agency and you know you need someone to line up at right tackle.

Speaker 2

It's probably not going to be an All Pro Hall of Famer this year, you know, but you need someone who you can line up with and feel and trust him and feel that he can pass protect.

Speaker 1

All right, I've got a potential name for you. The Bengals offensive line coaches, Frank Pollock.

Speaker 3

He was with the Jets.

Speaker 1

He's been doing it a long time. He was with the Jets when they drafted Makai Beckton, who's obviously had injury problems in his four NFL seasons. Do you view him as somebody worth taking a flyer on.

Speaker 3

I do.

Speaker 2

He's big, he's athletic, he'd certainly be worth it. Maybe a change of environment. You know, obviously Pollock knows him.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I think he'd be worth a flyer.

Speaker 2

I mean again, now you get into who knows what the money is, you know that that's a whole different question. But yeah, I think it's worth I mean, look, when you when you have a position where you're going to need competition in bodies, You're gonna have to take flyers on people because you know, you're not waiting around for Hall of Famer that's not gonna happen. So you need competition.

Speaker 3

You need to bring.

Speaker 2

Bodies in and see how it shakes out. And and yeah, I would. I mean, look, I remember Beck then you know he hasn't done great obviously in his NFL career, injuries, whatever reason, but I remember watching him. I believe it was Louisville he came out of. And you know you're talking.

Speaker 3

About a big athletic guy.

Speaker 2

I mean he is. He's really athletic for his size. Oh yeah, I would. That's worth a flyer.

Speaker 1

DJ Reader is a free agent. He's coming off a major injury to the Bengals need to significantly address interior defensive line. And free agency in the draft.

Speaker 3

It needs to be addressed.

Speaker 2

They'll decide how to a priority is relative to the other things we've been talking about. Their run defense was not exactly what they would have hoped a year ago. They need to address that. They need to be better there. You know Reader, I always liked Reader as a player, but you know he's he's played a lot of snaps now coming off of major injury.

Speaker 3

Who knows, but yeah, that that needs to be addressed.

Speaker 1

Have you looked at defensive lineman in this draft?

Speaker 2

Some I mean I personally think there could be someone they are at eighteen that they could that could be available. I mean, to me, the number one guy that and no one doesn't love him because you can't. I mean, he's one of those guys, and that's Murphy from Texas. Whether he's there remains to be seen. There's some people who think, other than quarterback, he's one of the two

or three best prospects in this draft. But you know, usually defensive tackle is not a position you draft super high, particularly in a draft that has the quarterbacks and that has the receivers. You know, normally that happens first. Normally. He's really a good prospect. He's a really good prospect.

Speaker 1

His name comes up a lot. Johnny Newton from Illinois is the other name.

Speaker 2

Not as good a prospect in my view, but pretty but a good prospect. He would definitely be there at eighteen if you'll like him. You know, he's one of those guys that you might not see him as the eighteenth best player on your board. I like the player. I think he'll be a good pro He's not as explosive as Newton and I think, but I think he's a good prospect. I don't know if you'd have him

eighteenth on your board. But again, when you start getting into needs, like let's say he's twenty third on your board and I don't know, you know that you could take him at eighteen, and that's not a reach. You just don't want to take him at eighteen. If he's forty third on your board. You know, that's what teams start getting into trouble to.

Speaker 1

And Andre Sweat's name comes up, not as a first round pick, but as somebody that might make sense for the Bengals in trying to have that interior run stopping type defensive lineman. He weighed in at more than three hundred and sixty pounds yesterday, had some trouble in some of the agility drills. He slipped trying to do a spin move. What do you think of sweat?

Speaker 2

Well, he's gonna have to lose weight. I can tell you that. I mean, he's not gonna play in the NFL at three sixty six. But he does have light feet for a big man, so he's not just a big, fat guy. But he would have to lose weight. I think he'd obviously be a run defender. You know, you're not see to me that that's not.

Speaker 3

A first round pick.

Speaker 2

Like I would not pick him at eighteen, even if you love the player, I would not pick him at eighteen.

Speaker 3

Now. I don't know how teams feel about him. I don't know what their draft boards look like.

Speaker 2

I think you'd need him to lose thirty pounds, but he does have light feet for a man that size. You know, he did struggle in a few drills, but there were also a few other drills. Because I was in the dome, Well, he looked pretty good. You know, you kind of went, oh, god, he's moving pretty well for three hundred sixty six pound guy. But you know, who knows what he could be if he got down to three thirty, you know, which is really what he

probably should be. Now again, you would assume Texas has great facilities, you know, probably have money for nutritionis and all that.

Speaker 3

You'd have to do your due diligence there.

Speaker 2

You have to find out if he's the problem or if for some reason Texas didn't handle it. You know, that's where you have to find those things out. If if you find out he's the problem, that becomes a concern, you know, because then what's so Leidia believe that it's going.

Speaker 3

To get better in the NFL.

Speaker 1

I think he told reporters yesterday that he believes his best playing weight is in the three sixties.

Speaker 2

Well, I don't want to sit here and say he's wrong, but he's wrong. He's not gonna play at three sixties six. I mean, I don't think there's any team that would say that at three sixty six he's okay.

Speaker 1

Joe Burrow's cap hit this year is twenty nine point seven mil. It jumps to forty six point two five next year. Do you view this as a crucial year because the Bengals have some cap role to add quality depth through free agency? While they can.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean I think you have got because Burrow. You know, you're not getting rid of Joe Burrow, and you're not trying to mess around with them. I mean, it is what it is. I mean, that's the way quarterbacks are paid. And the CAP's going up. You know, the league's doing great, the TV money is rolling in, you know.

Speaker 3

Yeah, so you know this is a year where you.

Speaker 2

Want, you would love to be able, not only with free agency, but the draft as well, to really get even if they're not day one starters, a lot of depth, a lot of competition, guys you feel can become starters or guys that you feel sure up a given position.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

So if there's cap space, then you really this becomes a really important year because what are you gonna.

Speaker 3

Do with Borrow.

Speaker 2

You're gonna go to them and say we want to renegotiate. That's probably not gonna happen. I don't think you know, you would know more. I don't think that's gonna happen.

Speaker 1

Not going to happen.

Speaker 2

No, Yeah, not gonna happen, right right, Not gonna happen.

Speaker 1

So we crossed paths here for the first time. A couple of days ago, and right off the bat you were talking about how eager you were to see Joe Burrow back healthy and leading the way next year.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean Joe Burrow to me, and you know, I'm a purist because of how I was taught the position.

Speaker 3

And I believe me, I've changed.

Speaker 2

You have to change your point of view because of the way the quarterbacks as they grow up now they're far more athletic. There's far more plays above the ex's and o's off script that does factor into an evaluation, far more than it ever did, and you have to accept that, and you've got to you sort of have to embrace it. I mean that's you know, we see Patrick Mahomes, we see him make plays. We see Josh Allen, we see these plays being made. You know, Lamar Jackson,

you see them every week. And Burrow certainly is not unathletic, as you know. But Burrow to me is just a high level, nuanced, detailed, subtle discipline, discipline craft quarterback. And I love watching those kinds of quarterbacks, guys who can can just control the game nowhere to go with the ball, you know, if you want to get really simplistic about quarterback.

Speaker 3

But it is true. You know, ultimately you want your quarterback.

Speaker 2

To be able to know who to throw the ball, to throw it to that guy at the right time, with the right kind of throw. That's ultimately what you want your quarterback with accuracy. Of course, you know, Burrow's really really good and you know what I love about Burrow And the tape tells you this, and I imagine on the sideline there's great conversations because he is so mentally into the game. You can tell watching the game and I'm just talking about tape, you know, not TV.

I'm watching the tape that what he's seeing and how he's adjusting to it. Like I feel like he's a master at that. And you would know, you know that just to me comes across watching the tape, and that's a trade. There's a lot of guys who are gifted, and there's a lot of guys who can make plays, and you know, but I feel like he's kind of a chess master, like he's always figuring something out as the game is being played.

Speaker 3

Very good description.

Speaker 1

I love coming to the Combine and one of my favorite reasons is running into you. I really appreciate your time as always, Thank you.

Speaker 3

Greg, Thanks, Dan, appreciate it.

Speaker 1

The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by pay Corp, proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof Fiber Internet designed elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health, the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is

the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Nearly all of the NFL's movers and shakers can be found in Indianapolis during the combine, including NFL Network insider Ian rappaport I spent a few minutes picking his brain, and here's Ian on Dan Pitcher taking over his offensive coordinator after Brian Callahan got the head coaching job in Tennessee.

Speaker 4

It was critical And I'll tell you what, like picture's not a household name. I mean, I'm sure Bengals fans know who he is, but most people probably don't. He was going to be a coordinator. Absolutely, Like Kelli, getting a head coaching job was interesting because it immediately was like,

all right, well, you know, how do they replay? And no, I think the league was like, wait, this guy was gonna be our coordinator and there were several teams who I think were really hoping and planning to hire Dan Pitcher said, the Bangals were like, oh no, no, like this is gonna be our guy. But that's that's why good teams are good, right, because when a player goes down, you can you can have a good player fill in

for him. When a coach gets hired, you can say, well, I'm not only I can not only promote the next really good offensive coordinator, but this is probably the next guy who can be a really good head coach. And like, that's how you should develop talent all across an organization.

Speaker 1

Have you heard any scuttle butt about the possibility of a tag in trade with t Higgins?

Speaker 4

You always heard a scuttle But that's what the combine is for The Bengals tagged Higgins early. And you know, I listened to the Duke Tobin response today saying that we tagged him early because we knew we were gonna do.

Speaker 5

Definitely believe it.

Speaker 4

Duke does not lie, So I hear, one hundred percent believe that that is the truth. But it also did show teams that I'm not saying he's available, but that he's under contract.

Speaker 5

That if something were to happen, they could do it. Tee Higgins is awesome.

Speaker 4

And he's going to get a new contract, a massive new contract, and he should is it with the Bengals, probably, But the cap went up really high. The Bengals value draft picks immensely, So could another team make a deal that would.

Speaker 5

Make it worth their while?

Speaker 4

Maybe, because everything has a price, right, and so like if you're Sincy and you say, like, we love Jamar Chase, we like to pay him too, we love draft picks, Like, surely there's some way it can make sense either way. Tee Higgins is going to be very very highly paid and probably play for a very good team.

Speaker 1

How realistic is it to pay Burrow, Chase and Higgins long term?

Speaker 4

You can do it, You could definitely do it, but you have to cut out elsewhere. Now, the cap went up more than anticipated, so I think that's significant, But it also means agents are going to be asking for more for all all across, all across the board, and so you know you can do it, but then you're saying, like, we're not going to pay as much for this backup tackle, We're not going to pay as much for this guard, this fourth linebacker or whatever.

Speaker 5

It is.

Speaker 4

Like, the money is not finite too, It's all about what decisions you make.

Speaker 5

Now, there's two schools of thought.

Speaker 4

You could be like, we're going to pay all receivers to support Joe Burrow. But you can do what the Chiefs do and go We got Patrick Mahomes. We trust that he's going to develop just these guys whoever they are, and we'll blow it up on defense. There are options and how you win. It's gonna be fascinating to see what direction the Bengals go.

Speaker 1

Another scuttle butt question, Guys, there any talk out there about Joe Mixon possibly being a cap casualty.

Speaker 4

You know, this is like the third year in a row that we're doing this.

Speaker 5

And I will say the same thing as I always do. Is there talk? Yes? Is it possible? Yes?

Speaker 4

But it's such a good it fits so well that I you know, you got to think they can figure out a way to make this work. I just, you know, I'm callous to this, but like you see guys in different uniforms all the time, I'm just not so sure I see it.

Speaker 5

In this case, We'll see.

Speaker 1

The Borough contract really becomes significant in terms of the cap next year. I think it's forty six million next year, so they've got cap space right now. Do you view this as a crucial off season for the Bengals in terms of free agency, in building roster depth?

Speaker 5

One hundred percent. This is how you do it right.

Speaker 4

You take when you got space, you spend, spend wisely, and then you buckle them for the years you don't have space. So yeah, I would say as critical. No, last year was probably all more critical just because of the Joe contract.

Speaker 5

But it gets a big decisions to.

Speaker 1

Make and with that, Ian was hustled off to his next interview, but I did appreciate a few minutes of his time. He's part of the NFL's live coverage of the Combine, and coverage starts at one o'clock on Saturday and on Sunday. Finally, the primary reason the NFL descends on Indianapolis is to study draft prospects. The Bengals have the eighteenth overall selection this year and a total of nine picks. They have extras in the fifth round and

seventh round. For an in depth look at the most likely possibilities in round one, I spoke to Dane Brugler, the draft guru for the athletic.

Speaker 3

Dan.

Speaker 1

At the moment, the Bengals need a starting right tackle. They have the eighteenth pick in the draft. Should they be able to find a plug and play right tackle at eighteen?

Speaker 6

Hopefully? If you're the Bengals, that's the word. This is a good year.

Speaker 7

If you need offensive tackles in the top twenty, it's just a matter of you project them as day one.

Speaker 3

Guys?

Speaker 6

Is this you know? Like I love Amarus mens from Georgia, love them. This is if you're going to build an offensive tackle in a lab. That's what it looks like.

Speaker 3

You know.

Speaker 7

The way he's built, six seven, three thirty, very low fat percentage, body fat percentage, the length is outstanding. I can't wait to see him move here at the combine, but eight career starts. You know what kind of projection are we talking about with him? Tyler Geiton kind of the same thing. Who another freak athlete is gonna test really well? Here is gonna move really well? Do you trust him enough with where he is currently in his development to put him out there at right tackle from

day one? I think the answer to that question will be different from team to team. Some teams will be a little more optimistic and say, yeah, I think we can. I think he'll be okay for us. Other teams will be more skeptical. So I do think that there's not a consensus answer. Team to team will look at it

a little bit differently. And for the Bengals, you know, they've got a chance to probably draft one of those guys, and if they do, we know they're probably gonna see the field pretty early and it's gonna be a sink or swim situation.

Speaker 1

Mims and Geiten are both six seven guys. You gave the measurables on the Marius Mims. Let me ask this question, what tackle should we not get our hopes up for who's almost certain to be gone by eighteen.

Speaker 7

I mean Joe alt Notre Dame. I think he's the best tackle in this class. I think he's the best combination of everything that you want.

Speaker 6

And I love his backstory.

Speaker 7

You know, his dad was a pro bowler for Joe Montana blocked over with Joe Montana in the early nineties. But his dad didn't He didn't want his son to be an offensive lineman right away.

Speaker 6

He was a skill position player.

Speaker 7

You know, he wanted to be him to be an athlete, and even in high school he was a quarterback and tight end. It wasn't until his senior year that he really started moving to tackle and that I think really helped him be an athlete first then become aligneman. In the development he's shown year over year in Notre Dame

the last three years has been tremendous. So to me, he's you know, he moves a lot, like different body type, but he moves a lot with Jake Matthews with the Falcons, and you know, if you have a chance to get a Jake Matthews type of player somewhere in the top fifteen, you're gonna do it.

Speaker 6

So I don't think he's gonna laugh.

Speaker 7

You know, I think Golu Fashnu, there's not a consensus like he's he's a top ten guy among with teams, just mostly because the run blocking stuff is not up to par with his pass protection, but still a really quality player.

Speaker 6

I don't expect him to be there to.

Speaker 7

Least Flaga not as freaky as these other guys, but you can make the argument he's the best football player of the group, and at the end of the day, it's what we're drafting football players, and so I think Flaga will be.

Speaker 6

Gone at that point.

Speaker 7

So I think another interesting name to keep in mind is the Washington left tackle Troy Fontaineau, who is, in my opinion, I think best at guard, but he can play tackle, so he has a length for it, he has the feet for it. I like him in terms of maximizing what he can be as an inside player, but the Bengals might see him as a tackle, and so he's another name to keep in the mix.

Speaker 1

You covered most of the tackles I have listed in front of me. One name you did not mention was J. C. Latham from Alabama. Do you see him as a right tackle or as a guard?

Speaker 6

He's a right tackle.

Speaker 7

I think that he might be the strongest player in the entire draft. I mean, he is that type of dude. I don't think he'll be there, but there's a chance because you know a team's gonna look at him as a right tackle, only you know that might affect how teams draft him. He's only played right tackle at Alabama and so that's a factor here. Good chance he comes off the board of the top fifteen picks, top sixteen picks. But if you were to be there at eighteen, I think he'd make a lot of sense.

Speaker 1

We're talking to the athletics draft guru Dane Brugler. Let's say, for whatever reason, the tackles that they like are all gone when they're on the board at eighteen, they also have a needed defensive tackle. What guys do you like as potential first round picks in that spot.

Speaker 7

I love Byron Murphy, you know, defensive tackle from Texas. He's not necessarily exactly how you draw it up. He's only six foot, but he is over three hundred pounds. And I was talking to him last week. He's just getting ready for the combine and just kind of talking about because he's a freak catho him he's gonna run on the four eight, so he's gonna put thirty five reps on the bench, just talk talking about his journey as a freak athlete. He never saw himself playing defensive line.

He saw himself as an NFL running back, and then in high school he was a linebacker. And his sophomore year, they put this pressure package together where they moved him down to the defensive line, and they did it once, did it twice.

Speaker 3

And it worked.

Speaker 7

Too well, because they're like, all right, you're staying here, we're gonna add weight to you. And yeah, he broke Von Miller's sack record at De Soto High School in Texas really started to blossom, and then this past year at Texas was he had the highest pass rush win percentage among all interior defensive tackles. Long story store, I don't think he's gonna be there at eighteen, but if he is, that's to me, that'd be the easy note

brainer pick. Johnny Newton's a really good player too. Coming off the foot injury, won't see him work out here. But what I love most about Newton the guy that you see in the fourth quarter with five minutes off to go, the same hustle, the same effort you're seeing with the first play of the game. He plays sixty plus snaps a game and still the motor is still Revan.

Speaker 6

He is a really impressive player.

Speaker 7

Not gonna fit in terms of the length, in terms with size measurements what teams are looking for, and not gonna be a fit for everybody, but I think there's a lot there where you just this is a good football player, both against a run and against the pass. So Newton somewhere say, between eighteen is probably the earliest. I would see him going eighteen to thirty five. Somewhere in that range is where I see Newton come off the board.

Speaker 1

DJ Reider is a free agent. He's also coming off an injury. He's been the Bengals' best run stopping defensive tackle, so that could be a need as well. I think you have to and Andre Sweat in the thirties on your big board. Big three hundred and sixty pound nose tackle type wouldn't be a first round pick in all likelihood, but could possibly be of interest in the second round for the Bengals.

Speaker 3

What should we know about Sweat?

Speaker 6

We think he's three sixty, but it could be higher than that.

Speaker 7

He is a big boy, but it doesn't look like he's overweight, Like he just carries this all this muscle mass in this body weight really naturally for him, so much power and his.

Speaker 6

Legs and his upper body.

Speaker 7

During the Senior Bowl one on once he was just bullying guys backwards and it's all over his tape too. But he moves with agility for a guy that side, so he's moving laterally making plays versa a run He's not just a I'm gonna be a nose tackle, eat up doubles and double teams and you know, play in my square and that's it.

Speaker 6

He has some range to him.

Speaker 7

Now, can he play forty plus naps a game and still give you that same range every single play?

Speaker 6

That's kind of the question mark.

Speaker 7

That's why we're probably talking about more of a second rounder than a first rounder. But what he did this past year for Texas, him and Murphy working together was really impressive.

Speaker 1

So if you asked one hundred Bengals fans who they would like to see Cincinnati select this year, ninety nine would probably say brock Bowers. That seems to be the fantasy pick at number eighteen. I personally don't think it's realistic. But is there a universe where brock Bowers, for whatever reason, could be there at eighteen.

Speaker 7

You don't rule it out because it's the position that he plays. There will be a lot of teams that won't even consider a tight end. It doesn't matter how good you are. They're not gonna consider a tight end in the top top half a round one. And so then you so you eliminate those teams, then you eliminate the teams that already have a tight end, they're not gonna draft one. And how many teams do you have left? You know, it's maybe the Colts at fifteen, Maybe if

the Chargers trade back from five. Like it's when you do a mock draft, it could be hard to find exact landing spots that make a ton of sense. But I'm with you, I'd be very surprised just because he's that too good.

Speaker 6

You know, he's a top ten player in this draft.

Speaker 7

He's you have to have a plan for him because he's not just a traditional wide tight end.

Speaker 6

Line them up in line and we'll run our offense.

Speaker 7

You have to heat the versatility with his athleticism is what makes them special, what makes a weapon. You have to be able to tap into that. So you're lining them up wide, he's gonna be in the slot, he's gonna be in line, backfield. You have to be creative with him. And he's so good. He's so athletic. Before the catch, he's gonna get open. He's so strong at the catch, he's gonna win. It doesn't matter what crowds

around him. He's gonna win contested balls. And then he's the master of the hidden yards after the catch seven yard gains for most tight ends. He's getting eleven because he's just he turns into a running back. He's hard to bring down. So you know, the brock Bauers conversation is, yeah.

Speaker 6

You have to.

Speaker 7

You look around the league and you see a lot of second, third, fourth round tight ends that are doing just fine. You're paying a premium with a first round tight end. But when you think about the impact he can make on your offense, and if your play caller is on board with making sure you're utilizing him to maximize the cost, yeah, you're getting a steal at that point.

Speaker 1

Dame Brugler from The Athletic is our guest. I think a lot of those Bengals fans who have locked in on brock Bowers is their fantasy draft pick don't even know the other tight ends in this draft. He's obviously not the only one. Who are some of the other ones you like?

Speaker 7

I think if you're looking second round, Jatavian Sanders from Texas is a really athletic player. Wish he put more on film in the red zone, but it's just not how Texas offense operated. Once you get into a third round. I really like the TCU kid, Jre Wiley, He's a good player. Cade Stover from Ohio State, Theo Johnson Penn State.

It's not a great tight end class, especially in the first two rounds, but I think third round, fourth round, fifth round, there are more than a few names that make sense if you're looking forward a true why if you're looking for more of a joker tight end, if you're looking for a combo guy that can do a little bit of both.

Speaker 6

So yeah, this draft, I think at tight.

Speaker 7

End, if you're willing to be patient, there are definitely some really talented players that could end up panning out playing where they're drafted.

Speaker 1

The Bengals are franchise tag T Higgins. I think most of us expecting to be in Cincinnati for one more year and then it might be unrealistic to keep both Jamar Chase and t Higgins. Should the Bengal be looking for a t Higgins replacement in this draft because it seems like there are always some great wide receivers out there.

Speaker 7

Yeah, I think you obviously, maybe not with your first round pick, or maybe not with your second round pick, but sure, yeah, you always keep an open mind too, you know, wide receivers become. It's always been an important position, but it's become even more so with just today's modern day NFL. So yeah, you keep an eye on who's someone we can develop, Who's someone that is not gonna cost us a premium pick, but two years from now, is gonna be someone that's gonna we expect to be

competing for a starting job. So you know, whether that's a Troy Franklin in the second round or you know, I think in my top one hundred I had seventeen receivers in there. I mean, it's just I'm convinced the rest of time, every year's gonna be strong a receiver because that's where all the athletes go. If you're not good enough to play quarterback, you're going to receiver in

high school and youth football and all that. So you know you're developing at that position and you really have a chain as a shine.

Speaker 6

So yeah, I'm you look at receiver.

Speaker 7

I'm not sure how early they would actually pull the trigger there, but if you're gonna if you want a position with depth wide receiver, this year certainly has in so you don't have to go with that position early. You can wait to the fourth round still come away with a pretty good player.

Speaker 1

You've been doing this for a while. Your draft guide the Beast is the best one out there. Have the Bengals developed a draft personality or a proto type in your mind when you think Bengals, Is there something where the draft is concerned that you say, all right, that's a Cincinnati Bengals kind of guy.

Speaker 7

I think, well, first of all, when you're doing a mock draft, you don't bother trading, you know, moving around with the Bengals, you know they're gonna stick.

Speaker 6

A pick, right.

Speaker 7

I was thinking about that with my last mock draft, like, oh, what would they move up six spots to get brought by this the Bengals, what are we talking about?

Speaker 3

Now?

Speaker 7

They're not going to do that, but I think that they they do place a premium on the key positions, you know, whether it defensive line, offensive line, quarterback, wide receiver, corner. You know, like this is a team that it feels like that's it with those early picks, those first rounders specifically, they want to get the premium position right. And they're look at their draft history with the way they they've drafted, certainly certainly looks that they want to do so this year.

Right tackle makes a ton of sense if they want to get better on defensive tackle. Yeah, I think they're a meat and potatoes type of team when it comes to drafting.

Speaker 6

They don't.

Speaker 7

You know, maybe John Ross is the last time they really got caught up and maybe like the flash of a player instead of focusing on maybe just the premium that you can the player can bring you. So Yeah, this is a team that I wouldn't say they're easy to project by any means, but I think.

Speaker 6

We have a better feel for the type of player that usually go after.

Speaker 1

I am one of approximately five hundred people looking for your time here at the NFL Scouting Combine. I promise to keep it under fifteen minutes, and I succeeded. Thank you so much. Look forward to devouring the.

Speaker 6

Bait all right anytime.

Speaker 3

Thank you. That's going to do it.

Speaker 1

For this episode of the Bengals Booth podcast, brought to you by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider by Alta Fiber future Proof fiber Internet designed elevate your home, business and community to a new level and by kettering health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of

the Bengals. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horn and thanks for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast

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