Hi, get Everyboddy.
I'm Dan Board and thanks for downloading The Bengals Booth Podcast, the I Go Back Edition as I take an in depth look back at the highs and lows of the twenty twenty three season with my buddy Jeffhobson from Bengals dot Com. But first I'll talk to a player who finished a disappointing year on a very positive note, Joseph Osai.
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computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Bengals Fans Helping, Ted Carris help others. From December fifth to January eighth, Nationwide Insurance held a contest called the Charity Challenge, where people could vote for one of the thirty two nominees for this year's Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award. There's one nominee from each team. The winner of that fan vote receives a thirty five thousand dollars donation that goes directly to
the player's charity of choice thanks to Houda Nation. This year's winner was Ted Carris, meaning the donation goes to the Village of Marichi, a supportive community for adults living with disabilities. Now we'll see if Ted wins the actual Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, which will be announced on the Thursday of Super Bowl Week. The winner of that receives a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars donation to the charity of his choice. So good
luck to Ted. Now let's get to this week's guests. In the Bengals season ending win over Cleveland, one of their highest graded players was Joseph Osai, who had a couple of quarterback hits, including one where he made contact with Jeff Driscoll's arm leading to an easy interception for Logan Wilson. Osai played twenty six snaps in the game, his second highest total of the season in a year where he was only on the field for sixteen percent
of the Bengals defensive plays. Prior to the Cleveland game, defensive coordinator lou An Aroumo was asked if he wished that Osai was further along in his development.
I think he would answer the question just like I'm going to and I don't want to speak for him, but yeah, I mean, I think again, it's all of us, but yeah, I think Joe would want to have a bigger role, of bigger impact and all of that stuff.
So I'm just hoping for him.
He can come into the offseason without an injury and he can train, and you know, we can see a better Joseph Osaia going forward. His walk to his effort has been tremendous. It's just amount of going out there and doing it.
Joseph missed his entire rookie year due to injury, then flashed at times last year, leading to the hope that he would be a valuable pass rusher this season, But after having shoulder surgery in the off season, he hurt his ankle in the final preseason game and finished the year with just one sack. I talked to him about it this week. I thought you finished the season on a really positive note. How did you feel about the finale? Felt great.
It just felt great to be fine, be able to impact the game in a positive way. So, yeah, looking forward to being healthy, staying healthy, and everything's a lesson and it's all for a purpose. And I got to go back to work, that's all.
Coach, and Romo was raving about your work ethic, how hard you're trying to be what I think we all know you're capable of being. I don't know if you heard those comments or saw those comments, but clearly the fact that you didn't have a big season this year was not a matter of effort.
Yeah, I didn't see those comments, and I appreciate him for those commerce. You know, he's a he's a great coacher, great guy. But yeah, you know that's unfortunately that's ball. You gotta you gotta get on the field to able to do anything in the first place. And but you know, everybody's story is different now that everybody comes on the scene and is the guy didn't.
Want to be at first.
But you hear stories about guys who work in the shadows till year six, year seven, and then they become the stars they want to be. They're able to impact games and be be a dominant for it. So you know, it's just it's it's always work, you know. I That's all I. I don't know any different. So it's always gonna be work, and we'll hope for the best.
Guy Will what do you think your offseason looks like?
Oh, it's I've been spoiled. I've been spoiled with h My rookieyear went to the Super Bowl. Last year, we went to the NMC Championship. So now I don't even know what to do. I don't know how I should schedule my time, where how long I should take off, or what do I should do during his time right now cause we're usually in the playoffs. But I'm gonna spend a lot of time with the fan. That's what's
important to me right now. So spend time with the fam, stay in shape, workout, and you know, my first off season without having to have a surgery, so that's also a blessing. We thank God for that and just go from there.
Trey had a mindster season. Mark your position. Did you learn anything from watching him? Have seventeen and a half sab.
Solutely taking what he had and using it at practice, not just trying to bring it out it during game days. But like I said, the process he's his process is so unique and his mentality also his confidence in himself, And in a way it helped me bring me It helped bring me close to God too, because he's such a huge believer in God and he's a great guy. So yeah, it was it was great to this is my understudy year, so to speak, working under him and learning from him and and getting to observe him. Just
be a master of what he does. And if you don't think he's a master of what he does, you're you're you're mistaken. For sure. He's unstoppable, completely unstoppable.
He's so maniacally focused. Almost anytime I came in here in the off season, he was here, and it's just his one track mind to be great at what he does. Really is striking.
If you're from the outside looking in, you can you would call it crazy, you would call it you would, you would, you would say a lot of things about it. But he he is dedicated to his craft and he's dedicated to his God, and those two things when you put them together, you get greatness. I can bet on it right now. He's gonna be one of the goods, and I can't wait to see it happen. He was.
That's a huge mention to me this year because this confidence in myself still even though I haven't gotten a chance to prove it, is confidence of myself too that I also will be great. He was a huge, huge, huge, huge health for me this year. He doesn't even know it, but yeah, So this confidence in myself that I'm going to be great, and I just have to get the opportunity and not take, not take lightly the opportunity at all.
Whatever however it comes, whatever it looks like, never take it, never take it for granted, never take it lightly, and then go dominate what it's worth.
Trey Hendrickson had a total of six and a half sacks in his first three seasons, then broke out in year four with thirteen and a half, and that's roughly what Trey has averaged over the last four seasons. Here's hoping that Joseph Osai also has a breakout season in
year four. The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by pay Corps Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business, and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now time for a comprehensive look back at the twenty
twenty three season. It was a winning year at nine to eight, but one that fell short of the Bengals Super Bowl aspirations. I discussed it with Bengals dot Com editor Jeff Butch Hobson. It is the second week of January and for the first time in three years, we are not looking ahead to a playoff game unfortunately. Instead, I'm with Jeff Hobson and we are looking back and a nine and eight season. We are going to tackle several topics on this podcast, some serious, some just for fun.
We begin with this some up the season in a sentence.
It was really good until July twenty eighth, and that's when the ducked and then an ellipses there and they hit it, which was too bad because, as you know, July twenty eighth, and I think that's the right date was The second practice was a second practice a training camp, and Joe Burrow had a strained calf, and I think that's just this is this is the year of the strained calf. It's the year of the torn ligament in the wrist. I mean, that's just no two ways about it.
And you know, and from that afternoon on from training camp, it's it was kind of a cloud over the season and what if.
So that first practice was awesome, unbelievable.
It was. It was. It was a fifteen to two practice.
All right, are you ready for my sentence? Yes, please, we interrupt this program. That's my sentence for the season. Because when anybody asked me about the Bengals chances prior to the season, my answer was always, I think they're going to the super Bowl if Joe Burrow stays healthy, and unfortunately he did not. But to me, it's an interruption, it's not an ending. We saw the five game stretch where they were great. They were four and one, They could have easily been five and zero if Tyler Boyd
didn't drop that pass late in the Houston game. They beat San Francisco by fourteen, They beat Buffalo by six and led by fourteen late in that game and when Joe threw his final pass of the year, they had the lead in the second quarter at Baltimore. So to me, we interrupt this program the Bengals as we think of them. Hopefully we'll be back in twenty twenty four.
Yeah, that was Unfortunately, it was a big interruption. I mean, it wasn't It wasn't Walter Cronkite coming in on as the World turns, but it was, you know, it was I mean, that's who they are. I believe that that's who they are. They're that four and one team. Now does that mean they're going to go fifteen and two or fourteen and three? I mean, well, fourteen and three,
thirteen and four. That's the kind of team they were kind of evolving to, I think, and you know, granted a lot of questions in the off season and who comes back and who doesn't. But the DNA is still there, and that's you know, the big thing of Courses Burrow if he's healthy and I you know, it's it's it's just a hard season that kind of wrapping around because there were the ebbs and flows. It was it seemed like there were like four different seasons. It was continued.
I haven't even taught we haven't even mentioned the name Jake Browning, you know who was started the last seven games of the year. But even before Jake get in there, there there was the strained calf, there was the struggles in September, then there was that great run and then he get hurt, and so it was like there was like four or five different seasons. It felt like, you know,
you were covering four different seasons. It was hopefully we won't have another year like it, because we've had about five in about eleven months.
I suspect we will get to the name Jake Browning and our second topic, which is what was the silver lining and a disappointing year?
I mean that's it. I mean that is look at if we were having a beer on July fourth and I laid out all the things and they're gonna be uh six Harrison bucker Field goals away from going to the playoffs, what you would have thought I'd had one too many, you know, to me, that is the silver lining. They survived with a backup quarterback all the way to the end, which shows you the roster, and they there were people talking and now it seems so long ago.
But going into that, this training camp and people talking to you know, this may be the best roster you know, we've had in this in this century, certainly in the last fifteen years maybe, And I think they were proven correct because they went nine to eight without you know, and you forget you had you didn't have t Higgins for four games, and you know, didn't have the big man for seven and look at how close. Shit, look at how close she came. That's coaching and that's and
that's roster and that's that's that's a silver line. That's two silver linings.
Totally agree. Jake Browning is the silver lining. We have eliminated a very important question, and that is who is the backup quarterback. We didn't know it going into the year. Is it Browning? Is it Trevor Simeon? Do they have to go get somebody else? They did Will Greer. I mean, we still didn't know really until Joe Burrow went down.
Now we do.
Jake Browning had a passer rating of ninety eight point four, That is tied for fifth best in franchise history in a single season. That was Kenny Anderson's passer rating in his MVP season. He was great, so were Zach Brian Dan Pitcher during the time that Joe was out, as they suited the offense to his strengths. And now we'll see if some of those elements will be incorporated more next year. Zach says, we were starting to do those things anyway, and we would have if you know, if
Joe didn't hurt his calf in training camp. Well, we'll see, but I would like to think that there will be more under center run, more screen game things that make it more offensive line friendly. I think not only was the offense Jake Browning friendly, I think it was offensive line friendly, which would be good for that group.
You know, again, I guess I guess the question is, you know, how much do you want to expose Burrow on those naked bootlegs because Jake was so good at those. But I would think Burrow would be outstanding at those. I mean, I guess as long as you knew he wasn't going to take a shot, how do you how do you know? But I mean, you know, Zach talked about balance. I think that's probably the one thing about this offseason, and I know you asked us about it
about the press. Uh to him at the press conference about, uh, you know regimen. Now that they're a month. You know, these last two years they went into you know into basically February, and one year they went into mid February. Now that changes, and now that actually is probably a positive because you know they'll be able to rest and so balance, it's balanced. It's it's it's getting your players to the gate, but they getting them ready for the opener.
It's balance run pass, you know under center, and that's that's something that they talked about. I think then that's that's something I think they'll they'll strive to. That's gonna be the off season theme, I think is balanced.
What was the biggest disappointment to me?
It had to be the defense. I thought, you know, they were so good down the stretch last year in twenty twenty two, in that ten game winning streak. I mean they were they were the spine of that of that I mean, as good as Joe was, the defense was the spine of that run. And you know, when they turned this thing around from twenty twenty to twenty twenty one, they did it with the run game. They were there was what you have to do in the AFC North, and they were so good against the run,
and they were not good against the run. I guess that was that was the disappointing thing. And I know you're gonna ask me about the biggest mystery. You can probably it's probably the same thing. It's because they were so good last year. They basically had the same same people accepted safety, and I guess we have to take a look at the safety position. It's maybe a little bit more important than perhaps people thought. But you know,
I would expect that, Diyll. That's another silver lining. I can't imagine them having another season like this again once Luke gets into the laboratory and straights it out.
My biggest disappointment is one in five in the AFC North and the only win was against the Cleveland team, basically resting everybody. Now, in fairness, the Bengals did not have a healthy Joe Burrow for any of those games, at least for four quarters. He was healthy for about a quarter and a third at Baltimore, but that was it, and that's a huge factor. But Joe did not play defense, and this team was especially bad on defense in those
AFC North games. Thirty four points allowed at Baltimore, thirty four allowed at Pittsburgh. With Mason Rudolph at quarterback. They made Kenny Pickett to Pat Fryarmouth look like Mahomes to Kelsey and the rushing yards allowed in those AFC North games scary two to six against Cleveland one seventy eight and week two against Baltimore one fifty three at home against the Steelers. If you cannot stop the run in this division against Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cleveland, you are doomed.
Remember the last game here in twenty twenty when I think Baltimore rushed for maybe four hundred yards, but they didn't have you know, they had a skeleton crew there. DJ Reader was out and they were playing with guys that they had just picked up during the year. So it's a different deal. But I think it's the same sentiment going into the going into the offseason that that's
going to get fixed. And it would seem to me, you know, like I said, it's the same guys that were the spine of that playoff run in twenty twenty two. And you know, I think the hope is the safety's Dax Hille Jordan Battle two, first year guy basically two first year starters that they're going to be better in year two. I think that's the you know, certainly, daxas all the athleticism that you could want. He's a first
round pick. He's legitimate first round pick. Jordan Battle, I think is everything they thought he was when they you know, Darren Simmons when they interviewed in the eighteen minutes in Indy. He started his name because he was so good and he was great after the game about his interception, his first interception in the finale here Sunday, he broke it down and everything is he Von Bell? You know do we have I think they've got you got guys, Dax Hill.
I think he's going through what Jesse Bates did. I think Battle could you know, Battle could be Von Bell? Like maybe not maybe maybe doesn't have, you know, quite the blue chip talent of a Bell. But I think he certainly is a locker room guy and knowledge. He's certainly headed there. It's just in the NFL, they don't wait around for these guys, you know what I mean, They don't wait around. You got to do it now.
And I think you know they I guess they paid, you know, they paid a little bit of a price. But I think what's the alternative in this day and age when you've signed Joe Burrow to a big contract, you can't go out and get a pay Jesse Bates and Von Bell. You just you just can't. You can't do it. You know, you gotta You're gonna you gotta rely on these young guys to come along. And I think they're two good young guys. You just got to hope that they that they're gonna they're gonna take that leap.
You teased our next topic, what was the biggest mystery in twenty twenty three?
Probably the probably the defense, I guess probably, I mean because stopping the run specifically that and I think the big plays because they never with with Lou. You know, Lou was always good about that. You know, we got to get to stop the explosives, you know, And I think that's the thing that probably upset me, maybe even more than not being able to stop it or I think if you talk to Lou, that's that's the thing
that really upset him, was those explosives. And I know Nick Scott talked about this, uh, he talked about the explosives after the season and he you know, what stuck with him was was the Houston game, and that really might have been the turning point in a way. The turning point was obviously when Burrow get hurt, but the fact the offense played terrific, you know, and the offense and the defense just didn't you know, just couldn't didn't have that one stop and kept and gave up eight
plays of twenty yards. That was That was really the stunning thing, how they just kept getting the ball thrown over them, you know, I mean, uh, that was uh and I and I know Lou's gonna get that fixed. And I think I do think you can probably chuck that up to some of the inexperience back there, because not only Dax and Jordan, but you had a rookie corner and DJ Journal who had to play a lot, which I think is kind of a silver lining too.
I know DJ had his uh had his ups and downs, but he got a lot of snaps in and I think he showed that he's going to be a very good NFL corner and uh, you know, with a woozy ab and a free agent, you know, I think he's you know, they need him to come on and the fact that he played so many snaps. I think that's a silver lining too, But you know he was living
and learning to back there. So uh yeah, I just you know, right right right down to the end against Kansas City with those you know, because if you remember when they were in the two games they wont no, well, in the games they've beaten Kansas City, they stayed away from that. When they had it was great, you know those you know, with Hill and Kelsey and everything, they would shut that down. It didn't happen this last time on Kansas City. And if it did, it might be
in the playoffs. If they didn't, if they're about two or three big plays away for being in the playoffs.
That was definitely a mystery. I'll give you another one. Why can't the Bengals run for a yard on third and one and fourth and one? If you had to guess what the typical team does when they run on third and one or fourth and one. I don't have a league wide average, but I can give you the numbers in the AFC. North Baltimore on third and one successful seventy six percent of the time, fourth and one
eighty three percent of the time. Now, these are just runs Pittsburgh third and third and one seventy three percent of the time, fourth down eighty eight percent of the time, the Browns third down and one seventy one percent of the time, fourth and one eighty one percent of the time. Here are the Bengals numbers on third and one and fourth and one this year, third and one when they
ran successful fifty nine percent of the time. When they ran on fourth and one sixty percent of the time, so fifteen percent lower than their division rivals on third and one, twenty to thirty percent lower than their division rivals on fourth and one. Why was that the case? Well, there are probably a lot of reasons, but I'll say this, the coaches are much smarter than I am about this stuff. But how about a fullback? How about taking Sam Hubbard like he used to and lining him up at fullback
or domatop echo back in the day. Could we try something like that on third and one or fourth and one.
I guess you know you can't criticize that then for not running in on third and one and fourth and one because because the numbers are because the numbers are with them, I guess so. And uh, And the Zachs I'll tell you what though, and I and those are interesting numbers in the AFC North. I think that is more. I think that speaks more to the town, the AC North because I look at these other games and of
course it's just a guy watching TV. I I you know, but a lot of teams have prouble, trouble it seems like on the short yard stuff. And it's amazing because it's it's it's only a yard, but it's uh, you know, I saw there have been Pittsburgh almost lost the game or almost had a chance of losing the game because they couldn't convert because they looked like they were a little confused. But you know, I think it's you know, I think it comes down to does it come down
you know? I think these guys are you hear the criticism, well, the offensive line they're past protectors because we're because the Bengals are a past first team, and o't buy that. They're tough guys. They're physical guys. They can move people. We've seen it move people in the running game. So you know, I don't know, I think it's a uh, I think it's I think it's a That's why it's a mystery.
Yeah, Philly, by the way, on fourth and one with the brotherly shove uns successful.
How many injuries?
That's a good question.
I hate that thing because it just looks like a football version of a something you see on seventy four that is on on I seventy four. It just, you know, it looks like a lot of rubber Yeah, just a lot of rubbernecking. You know, it just doesn't look good. But I you know, but ninety two percent is ninety two percent. Might be it might be driving Jason Kelsey in the retirement though.
All right, let's move on your favorite moment of twenty twenty three.
You know, Tyler Boyd's catching overtime in the Vikings game. That was that was unbelievable, one of the greatest catches I've ever seen in just a crunch time with the playoffs on the line.
And maybe the second best catch in that game because of T Higgins.
But I think my favorite moment is when it still involves Tyler Boyd. I love Tyler Boyd because he's always got great moments, you know. But when Jake Browning came over, it was an off Okay, if it's an off the field moment when everybody's around Tyler Boyd, who you know may have played his last game for the Bengals in a great career, and Browning, Jake Browning came over and patted him on the shoulder and made it a point to tell the press how important Tyler Boyd was to
him and to the media. I don't think. I don't. I haven't seen that probably since the days of Willie Anderson. That was great leadership by a guy. And it was absolutely what he said was at first of all what he said was absolutely true about Tyler, but the fact that he would do that, take the time to do it.
Then he said it again, and he repeated it for us in the media because some of us weren't there when it happened, but he did it, but he repeated himself, and it was a I just thought it was I think, other than Joe Wincing when he threw the touchdown pass that against Baltimore, the Browning Tyler Boyd wore when I think that's take that home.
That was really good stuff. And I don't remember or anything quite like that either. For Jake Browning to interrupt a Tyler Boyd session with reporters to basically say hey, before he continues, I want to tell you how awesome this guy is. That was really cool.
It was just throwing a Willie Anderson moment when Rudy Johnson had a breakout game and this is back in I think three maybe, and PJ was saying, Rudy Johnson to the interview room. Rudy Johnson in the interview room, and Willie Anderson said, wait a minute. He held up a finger and said, wait minute, listen to that. Rudy Johnson to the interview room. How about that? This is a guy that's paid his dues and he's Willie went into a thing on Rudy, which was really good.
My favorite moment. This one's a little bit selfish, but it was the San Francisco win and the entire day for me. Because the night before the Bearcats played at Oklahoma State Stillwater, Oklahoma. I was scheduled to fly the next morning from Oklahoma City, which is about an hour away, through Denver to get the same Jose for the game. There was a snowstorm in Denver. I had to change my plans at the last minute fly through Dallas, got like two hours sleep. I was totally panicked I was
going to miss the game and get fired. Thankfully, the second arrangement worked out. I got to San Jose hopped in an uber, feeling triumphant, and then I think the uber driver intentionally left me like miles away because he didn't want to deal with game day traffic. So there I am with my suitcase and my you know, my backpack, miles from the stadium, schlepping through tailgates and stuff to get there.
But I got to the booth about.
Ten minutes before the start of the pregame show. And then it was an awesome day. The weather was spectacular, the Bengals were spectacular. Burrow completed almost ninety percent of his passes passer rating over one point thirty. Joe Mixon had one hundred and ten combined yards, Chase had ten catches in one hundred yards. So it's just a tremendous day. And thankfully I made it in time. So that was my favorite moment of the year.
I didn't realize it was that. I didn't realize it was that intense. That's ah, they would never fire one of the great voices in Bengals history.
I hope I don't give him reason too. No, that was no.
I think you had a good year to Hoardy, by the way. I think it was, and I know because I listened to all the why I'm watching the game,
I listened to the broadcast. It's ah, it gets harder and harder to call these games because the flags are dropping and uh things are being replayed and it's not it's not as easy to uh, not as easy to call a game as it was once was with Gil Santos and uh the great and the great Uh Vaughan, you're your guy in uh Buffy h Van Miller, Van Miller, I want to say von Miller, but uh, he's in Buffalo too. Yeah. It was a little it was a little deep bit easy easier back then, and they were great.
But it's uh it's hard.
Now, man, all right, your low point of the season.
Yeah, it had to be, uh, I I I think it was probably uh it might have been the Pittsburgh game here maybe because that seems so winnable. But I think it has to go back to the ball. I think it just goes back to the Burrough getting hurt. I mean, you got it, and I don't know I remember that the training camp day. Did he get hurt. That was that was I don't think I've ever felt that bad in July since I got a somber And you know, that wasn't. That wasn't. That wasn't. That wasn't
a great feeling either. And then and then the Baltimore thing, and then of course the ride, you know, the flight home, and it's one of those late night primetime games in a row you're a zombie, and then you realize Burrows out that was you know, I could have I could have. I think we all could have done without that.
Yeah, I'll be very specific. It's the same thing. But it was seeing the replay of Burrow on the sideline trying to throw a pass, just a soft toss to test his wrist, and he couldn't even do that. You know, he's in excruciating pain because none of us realized when he threw the touchdown pass to Mixing that that was it because we were watching the ball, Joe makes the catch, he goes into the end zone. We're all fired up. Meanwhile, Oburrow's experience this pain. And we later saw that replay
as well. But when we saw that replay of him on the sideline trying to throw and being unable to it brought back the words of Jim McKay in Munich. Our worst fears have been realized, and not as serious circumstances, obviously, But at that point we probably all thought the season was over, and thanks to Jake Browning, it wasn't. They got to the next to last game of the regular season with a chance. Thanks to him and obviously his teammates.
Four and three. He went four and three. If it was the World Series, they wouldn't won it. But no, I mean he was, I mean he was. I thought he was terrific. He was, you know, even in some and all. I thought he was terrific in Kansas City. Really he was running and making plays. And you know, you gotta remember, it's just not that he came off the bench, and he came off the bench in the middle of a playoff run where they had a legitimate chance.
Nobody in Bengal's histories then that when Blake came off the bench, they were owing, they were owing seven. You know, uh, you know, when Turk came off the bench, it was early in the year. You know, this guy I got. No Bengals backup quarterback has come in in the playoff run and got him there. I guess you could say, uh, his fulsome soulmate Virgil Carter. But because Virgil, but because because but Virgil really was you know, he and Sam Weish were kind of early in the year were alternating
and then Virgil Virgil get the job. But you know, nobody O there. I mean, that's that's that's the thing is is the pressure that the pressure endured, and it's the it's the great American story. You know, he was this far away from maybe being a being an offensive assistant at Sacramento State, you know, but he get the call here and here he is and.
None of those other guys had to wait for four years to get their chance, which added to the miracle. Who is your team? M v P?
You know people are gonna, you know, they're gonna say, you know, in my heart, I want to say mixing because you know, he did every I mean, really he was. He He caught the ball, he ran the ball, he went for one thousand yards. He didn't you know, he didn't get a hundred yard game until late. He gets criticized because he doesn't have explosive plays, and I understand that, but the guy never you know, he never fumbles most of the time. He'll get you forty yards. He'll keep
y on schedule. He makes you know he won the he won the Minnesota game. He's he's, he's, he's, he's in the backfield. And if I haven't, if i've in pace makes that tackle. Seasons, you know that they're done, they're out, and he wills himself to stand up, you know, and get in there and score. I think he had twelve touchdowns.
You know, one four hundred and ten combined yards rushing and receiving in twelve touchdowns. That's the quietest fourteen hundred yard twelve touchdown season in history.
Yeah, I mean I think you know you get but then you know my height, says Mixing. But I also you know, my eyes also say Chase. You know, JAMAI Chase in the guts of that when Browning first, you know, when when Joe was just getting into shape, and then when Browning came in, Chase was a beast. Remember, and then he get hurt. And when he get hurt, things kind of felt. Remember they lost they lost their two games right when he when he when he get hurt,
and uh, Kansas City and Pittsburgh. He didn't play in Pittsburgh and he was he was hurting against Kansas City. Really, you know, kudos to him for strapping it up and playing. But you know, if he's healthy, you wonder how how that was because he I mean, he had he had ten I think he had u he had he had a five one hundred yard games and one morning ties him for the you know, that's a quiet that was a quiet five you know, five one hundred yard games too.
So I don't know, you could probably take your pick Jama or Joe, but I you know, I think either one will be on it, and we'll throw in.
Trey Hendrickson on the defensive end, seventeen and a half sacks, seventy nine pressures. According to Pro Football Focus, he came out as their sixth best pass rusher among edge guys this year in the NFL. Miles Garrett, Michael Parsons, Nick Bosa, TJ Watt, Aiden Hutchinson, and then Trey Hendrickson, which is great company. And I'm not in the building all that often in the off season, especially these months, you know,
when they're not well. I have been the last couple of years, thankfully, but February March, when the guys for the most part aren't in the building unless they're here rehabbing. But last year, any time I came down here, Trey Hendrickson was here. I came down here, and it's either like a Monday or a Tuesday. It was right after Florida Atlantic, his alma mater, had played in the Elite
eight at Madison Square Garden. He was at the game and the next day he's down here working out, and I'm like, I just saw you on TV at Madison Square Garden yesterday. So his one track mind obsession with being the best pass rusher that he can possibly be is truly incredible.
If his wife's working, he's here and and his wife's he is a pharmacist and works, and so he's you know, he just buckles it up, comes down here, waits for her to get home, leaves, you know. I mean, the guys all the guy is all football all the time. One of the more interesting guys you'll come across, you know, he's uh I remember I talked to him. I did a conversation with him, and uh. Sim Hubbard said, oh, well, you guys are friends now, right, And Henders he goes.
I don't know. You know, I don't know, yeh, I said, I said, I think we are, but I think he's a little reluctant about it. But no, he's a he's a he's he's a very intriguing guy, interesting guy, spark guy, reflective and uh, I'm glad we got him, so am I.
How about your Rookie of the Year?
Yeah, I think it's gotta be uh Jordan battle I think, doesn't it have to be? I think he went from got a battlefield promotion from personal protector. He's having a pretty good run as a personal protector and an all Special Teams every man for Darren Simmons, and then when Lou decided to put him in the stating lineup, I thought he was really got better as he went. I think he kind of caught DJ Turner. I think DJ Turner, I think had a really good, you know, had a
really good start to what he was doing. I think he might have hit a little bit of a wall, but I think DJ Turner had a very good rookie year too, when you take the big picture of it. I think he struggled a little bit at the at the end. But I think he's going to be. I think Turner's going to be a terrific player. I think he's going to be a very good corner in the league. And I think, like I said, I think Battle can give them a little bit of von Bellion knowledge and
stability back there. You know, the more experience he gets, I think he's a very mature, very mature playoff.
I'm with you on Jordan Battle, so his pro football focus. Among the Bengals defensive players who had a legitimate number of snaps this year, he graded out number one higher than Trey, higher than DJ Reider, higher than Mike Hilton. We all had very good years. That's pretty incredible. I know PFF isn't the be all end all, but it certainly looks like the Bengals struck at Rich Considering he
was a late third round pick ninety fifth overall. I think they thought of him more like an early second round kind of guy, and that's the way he played as a rookie. I'll throw in honorable mention honors to andre Yosi Vash. The overall numbers aren't great, but he did have four touchdown catches for an IVY League guy who never took part in spring football because he was working on the pole, vault and the shot put. Troy
Walters is a tremendous wide receivers coach. I think, with his training, andre Yosi Vash is going to turn out to be a very productive NFL player.
Yeah. I think he's more than a fourth receiver. I really do. I think he could be. I don't know what kind of a steady diet of a third guy, but I think he can be a very I think he can really contribute. I think he can catch, you know, thirty forty balls a year, I would think, particularly in
a red I think he's a weapon. I think also too, I think I think Miles Murphy kind of kind of for rookies, kind of snuck in there at the end, and he seemed to be improving as he went, which I think, which I think is encouraging obviously, because you know, I think he was had trouble I think getting into a rhythm early. But he's a rookie. He's just he's just learned, and I think he the more snaps you got, I think the better he got. And I think that's a good sign too.
All right, let's do a couple of looking ahead topics. Joe Burrow to the news conference this week and May headlines with this statement, I expect T to be back. Is Joe Burrow right?
He always is right? I mean, I don't know. I I I that's a tough one. That's a tough call there. I know they want Higgins badly. I also know the numbers are daunting when you're flowing jamat Chase and Burrows. What Chase is going to get and what Burrow already is getting. Yeah, I think you know, but I you know, they also there's the option of the franchise tag. You have to look at that. But like I said, Joe seems pretty confident. I I you know, uh, I think T is. I think T likes it here. I think
he wants to stay here. I I think, you know, I know that some might say, well, I want to get out from Chase's shadows. Some might say that, But I don't get that. I don't get that vibe from T. I think he knows what he's got in Burrow. Burrow and he came in together. I think there's a certain chemistry there, a certain bond. I think he knows that Jam makes him better, you know, and that he makes Jama better. So I don't know. I think, uh, you know, we'll see. Do they end up using the tag? Who knows.
But people seem to be confident that we'll be back. And I you know, I got to take Burrow at his word. He's certainly I know that. I don't know if he's coming back, but I certainly know this. He's been a huge piece of what has gone on here. I mean, he is a you know, like I keep saying, man, when he goes up for a ball that's like a Bill Russell Game seven rebound. He's coming down with it, you know, about as well as anybody's I've seen. And so,
I mean, he's just as I'm always amazed. There's two guys I'm always amazed at when I look at when I'm around them all the time, but I'm always stunned when I see them up close. Burrow he's always taller than I think he is. And then t is just a massive guy. And then you look at you turn it and then you watch what he does on the tape and wow, you know, he is just's he's quite a player.
He's a monster. Joe said what he said. Then Zach Taylor said it's hard to imagine life without Tea. I don't think they're going to have to imagine it this year. I do think the franchise tag seems most likely. He would be twenty one point seven mil, which is obviously a lot of money, but the Burrow contract doesn't really hurt until the following year. It's structured in such a way that this coming year they'll still have some maneuverability.
I think they can fit that in. Jamar Chase is probably going to be looking at more like thirty million dollars a year, which is incredible for a wide receiver. But if anybody deserves it, he does. I think they keep the band together as long as they can under the cap, and to me, that feels like a franchise tag for Tea. But we'll see. They've got until March fifth to figure it out.
Man, does Boyd come back to the Higgins comes back? Does Tyler come back?
Well, that's our next topic. All right, here we go. T is not the only prominent free agent. You also have alphabetically Chidabeo, Wouje, Tyler, Boyd, DJ Reader, Jonah Williams. There are others, but we'll concentrate on those four rate in order of likelihood, which guy will be back Cheetoh, Tyler, DJ, Jonah.
That's a tough one night, probably, I mean DJ, maybe because I don't know what his injury will do to his bracket value or how other teams view him. I you know, um selfishly, you'd love to have DJ back. You talked to him for you know, one of your great podcast, great interview with him about and we've talked to people ad nauseum here about what he means to his team. There's no question about it. Coaches, players, you know,
the outpouring when he get hurt. I mean the guy I mean, I mean look like I mean, his walker looked like a funeral home with all the you know, balloons and the gifts and whatever. I know, the social media content team was they had some nice cards and stuff for him because he's been so helpful. So, I you know, how does that play into what? You know? A right tackle trying to keep Jonan Williams around is a right tackle who proved he can play right tackle.
He can also play left tackle. Had a pretty good year. He's on the top one hundred free agent lists. He might be tough to to bring back when you're playing, you know, or when you're playing the let when you're paying the left tackle as much as you and I, you know, it's hard to pay corners. You got a woozy a up. But O Cheeto is is is Uh, he's coming off his own injuries, you know, so does that what? How are other teams going to view him? That's a question. But I just think it's it's tough
to keep these guys. I mean, it's just it's hard to Uh, it's hard to imagine life without them. But that is life, you know, with us, what happens when you do well and you know all these good players and you uh, you know you just talked about te Chase and Burrow, right, well, where do those other I mean, it's going to be hard to fit in any of those guys.
Right here is my order of likelihood. Most likely DJ Reader. It's really unfortunate, but I do agree that the injury made it more likely he turns thirty over the summer. The Bengals are historically hesitant to give long term deals to guys in their thirties, and that's probably smart, but somebody would have somebody out there would have given DJ Reader like a four year deal or something like that, and he's a great player. I understand why another team
might have done that. With the injury, that becomes less likely. He's probably looking at a shorter deal with incentives and all things being equal, I think the Bengals become one of the better options for DJ reader. He likes it here. He knows he'd have a chance to win a Super Bowl. They've already paid him fifty three million bucks, so there's some loyalty there. So again I would put him at the top of the list for most likely. I guess number two I would go Boyd. Having said that, I
don't think it's likely. We saw on Monday, the day after the final game of the year, he exchanged signed jerseys with Chase and Higgins. It was kind of a sad moment to see that happening. And even when Joe Burrow was asked about him, he didn't say I expect Boyd back, you know, he kind of spoke about Boyd for all he's met with kind of a tone that he expe to be gone. Now. Maybe the market isn't as good for a nine year vet who's going to be thirty next year as he hopes and that brings
him back to Cincinnati. Obviously, if the Bengals could keep him at a reasonable price, I'm sure they would love to have them. So I'll put him number two on the list. But again, I don't think it's especially likely in a Wouoja's case because of the injury and he didn't have a great year this year. He's probably looking at something of a prove it type deal for a
year or two. I think under those circumstances, he's going to want to try to prove it at a place where he's pretty much guaranteed to start, and I don't think that'll be here. I think they're probably looking at Cam Taylor, Britt and DJ Turner as the starting outside corners. They'd love to have Cheetoh as a third guy. You
need more than two. But from his perspective, if it's going to be a prove it contract, he's probably going to want to try to prove it where they say, oh, you are definitely going to be one of our starters. And then I would put Jonah in the fourth spot because I think he's positioned himself to be one of the top free agent tackles available. Pro Football Focus graded him number sixty three out of eighty nine, which had enough snaps to qualify, which you know doesn't sound very good,
but I thought he was very solid this year. I think you can win with Jonah Williams at either left tackle or right tackle. The Bengals have correct but Pro Football Focus also does these contract you know, predictions or whatever, what they think he's likely to get. They project four years, sixty four mil. That's what the Bengals are paying Orlando Brown Junior, a four time Pro Bowler who graded out much better according to PFF than Jonah did this year.
So if that's the case, I think he's likely to get that that kind of deal somewhere else in Cincinnati.
Yeah, you can't. I mean, I don't think he can pay two tackle You can't pay two tackles at particularly what your wide receivers are.
Right on this organization, I don't think he can with the likelihood that you're going to try to get a long term deal done with one of the highest paid wide receivers in the game. What is their number one priority in the off season?
Great question. I guess if we're talking players, are we talking players or if we're talking uh fixes.
Open ended question.
Yeah, yeah, I probably I think get the defense fixed and they have to figure out if that's personnel or scheme. Uh. And then I think beyond that, I think it's uh, you know, I think they got to shore up their corner you know, their cornerback depth. I think probably they could attack They got to attack their defensive line depth
a little bit. I mean, you know, we're talking about dj H they don't have they don't have them on the contract, so they have to I think they have to attack that, uh, you know, some inside people and uh, you know, I think, uh, you might have to tackle the right time. You know, where do you get your right tackle? You know, we've just said that we thought we don't think Jonas coming back, so you know, historically you got to go get that guy early, you know.
So I think probably if you're looking at positions, I think, you know, you're probably looking corner depth, nose tackle, three technique depth from the probably tackle.
The number one off season priority is Wristwatch Joe Burrow's wrist. They've got to make sure that they do everything right in terms of getting him healthy and keeping him healthy until the start of the season. Wouldn't that be nice? If he was able to not only recover from risk surgery, but go through a normal training camp and be able to play in the opener without having.
A house arrested.
But you know, a second off season priority, in my opinion, is something that you brought up when you spoke with Zach Taylor and one of your conversations that you had in megals dot com, and that is getting off to a better start. It's the one thing that has been pretty much lousy in his five year tenure, with the exception of the Super Bowl year. The first few weeks
of the season. I went to his first year, I went to his second year, one in one his third year, and three in one that year that was the year they went to the Super Bowl. Oh into a year four they overcame it got to the AFC Championship Game. Oh into this year. That's one and nine in the
first two weeks of a five year stretch. And I was happy to hear him say when you talk to him about it, that they do need to really look hard at what they've done and try to determine what they can change to get off to a faster start.
You know, it's a balance, and so I get back to what we're saying, a balance. I mean, because he's very Zach is very aware, and I agree with him on this, because the season is so long and you know you've got it, you can't you can't, you can't run these guys had in the spring and in training camp can't do it.
They don't want to do it.
For one thing, you know, it's an it's the the era of the era of the haid nosed. You know, training camps is and and regimens is over because it's a and I think for a variety of reasons. Main thing is just too damn long to keep pounding these guys. So he's gotta but you also have to be ready. Right now, I would say it, there's a big cave yeat with what what is that one? What did they
have that one year? In twenty twenty one, they had Joe Burrow who actually went through he didn't go through all of training camp because he was coming back from a rehab, but he went through most of it, right and they were three and one. So if I'm Zach Taylor, you gotta, you know, you got to say, you know, you got to balance it. They've been very good in November December right now, they ran into obviously they ran
into problems this year, but they didn't have Burrow. But when they've had Borrow, they've been you know, I think before this November stretch they were like fourteen and they were like thirteen and four in November and December and January games, which says they're doing something right in getting ready for it. So you gotta do you panic and say, you know, do you panic can say you can change
it up? Or do you step back and say, Okay, we didn't have Burrow, we do have to do a few things differently, and they will and it's built in because it's not like the previous two years where they were so deep into February. So I think, you know, Zach's Zach and Joey Bose his strength coach, they got a real good handle on this, on this stuff, and I'm pretty confident that they'll they'll they'll figure out what they're what they're doing. And the big thing to me is,
you know, how do you keep Borrow healthy? What do you do? Do you give them maybe do you give them days off in training camp? I mean, what do you you know, what do you do? Because I'm all in Forze, you got to get to the gate. Marvin Lewis was good at getting these guys to the gate too, even though he you know, if you compare the training camps and Pe like the Marines, and you know, but it's but it's a different era and it's a different game.
But both Zach and Barber we're very good at getting their guys to the gate in their era of football. They both knew it was important, and so I just think it's I think it's fascinating to look at to look at it because I think Zach's got a really good grip on it. I think his record in the big games shows that proves that that he's getting them ready for the big ones. And you can argue, look,
they had they were good enough in November December. This time, they didn't win enough games, but they had enough people with their backup quarterback to almost make it.
I think all of that is true. And I am certainly not calling for the return of the Forest Greg era.
In That's what I told them. I said, I said, look, I'm not looking you to go with double sessions here in morning and afternoon.
A goal line drill on the first day of training, camp. But I do think they've got to do something differently, and I don't even really specifically have an answer for what that something is. But there are a lot of smart people here the coaching staff, Duke Tobin, Mike Brown's
been in pro football for sixty plus years. They've got to have a meeting of the minds to say, all right, maybe we need to do this a little differently, and this a little differently so that we can avoid losses that are just as costly in September as they are in October, November, December. At the end, it's how many win and how many you lose, And if you're constantly starting zero to two, you put yourself off in a hole that yeah, maybe you recover and make it to
the playoffs. But maybe that's the difference between being the number one seed and having a couple of home games as your path to go to New Orleans and the Super Bowl next year.
The guy Zach's philosophy that is that probably mirrors more than anybody's, probably Paul Brown's. Paul Brown was was kind of at the vanguard of this. He was seen as as different because he kept he kept it light, he kept it brisk, he kept it short. He didn't want to get his guys beat up. And it's really kind of funny how it's kind of come full circle. And uh, you know with what Zach is doing. So I think, uh, Zach's kind of get history on his side because Pebe
for the most part had some pretty good teams. People forget his last team he had here win eleven and three, you know, and uh so I I uh, you know, it's a famous story of uh the uh when Kenny Anderson. This is back in a whole different time of football, when the starters played every preseason game, you know. But even that then in seventy eight, I know, there was some hope. And when they went to the at halftime at the last preseason game, boy, I hope he maybe
sits Kenny, you know, and for the second half. And Kenny came out and played the first series and broke his hand on a helmet and the season was lost. So, like I say, Zach's got a Zach. Zach and PB are on the same page there all, right.
Final topic, and this is one where it's great to have you on as a guest. The possibility of Willie Anderson being selected for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. You've got a meeting coming up soon. What's the next step.
I wish he just had a better presenter, he'd have a better shot. No, I think his chances get better every year. I think he's an attractive candidate. I've heard that from a lot of This is his third trip to the finals, and I think Willie just more and more that we present his case. It just grows on people. You know, it's an indisputable case, you know, hope going
in there. I'm with some pro football focus, not only pro football focused stats, but Mike Giddings, an old school pro scout who many teams, including the Bengals use so new school, old school stats, quotes from people like Bill cow and Ozzie Newsome, teams that had to play him twice a year in the division. Willie's case makes itself, you know, so, and I think it's growing on people. Unfortunately, I think it takes time. For Tony Boselli was in front of the committee six times, so you know, I
think it's we'll see what happens. I you know, I think you know, there's no it's also probably you know, not only is it. You know, there's only two Bengals in the Hall, but there's only I don't think there's been a right tackle elected to the Hall in about twenty years so, and I think that's part of the agumen is look the left, you know, the great pass rusher are now on either side of the ball. If you look at Willy, at one time or another played ten of the top twelve sackers, you know, and at
one time or the other. Now, as Willy evolved and the game evolved, a lot of guys switch sides. But a lot of guys who would have been you know, the athleticism has moved. You didn't have just one athletic guy rushing the batch. You had two three and they were over both tackles. So that's part of it. And I think that's I think that's that's that's something that's beginning to take hold. Yeah, I mean right tackles or tackles too.
How sophisticated are these presentations? Is there video? Do you have a like a folder, you know, glossy pictures? How is that done?
Yeah, it's just there's no video. It's I'll have a brochure that I'll hand out to the folks, but it's basically you know, I'll speak for five minutes and that a limit. Yeah, it's a five minute limit. And then you'll you know, and then you know, the others will speak for him, others on the committee. He will be discussed, he'll be debated. Then with the other fourteen modern era candidates. Each guy is voted on. Each guy has to get
eighty percent of the vote. So we'll at the end if he makes it to the if he makes it to the end. So it's uh, you know, it gets it goes from a cut, it gets cut from fifteen to ten and then to five. So it's uh, it's always a This is the first time we've met. It's the first time we've met in persons since twenty nineteen, so no since twenty twenty. It's the first time since twenty twenty, so because we met before the pandemic. But so it'll be it'll be Uh, it's always interesting. It's
a draining day. It's important. It's one of the you know, it's a big responsibility to be entrusted with. It's important. It's uh, you know, it's uh, you know, they say it can change people's lives, so you take that responsibility, you know, take that it's ability.
Seriously, Willie's case is in great hands. He helped Ken Riley make it to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I know that Willy's going to have his case presented beautifully next week. And best of luck and helping to convince that crew that he is worthy of inclusion in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
It's very kind of you to say. I told Willie today, I said, it's going to be like when you met with brat Kowski and he told you the Tuesday before you played Peppers, you're gonna have to take her more on one And Willie looked at eight plays on the film and said, don't worry, bratt I got it. So that's what I told Willie. That's what I told Willie today.
Well, you're right, you do have it. You're going to be great. Best of luck with that, and thanks so much for your time. It's always pleasure, Hordy.
I appreciate it. Best New Year to you and the family. I have to say hello to my family, Carrie Miller, Carrie hops and Miller your biggest fan with Freddie franchise and Danny Miller, her husband. They love the podcast. Hi guys, how you.
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