Bengals Booth Podcast: Future's So Bright

Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's

the greatest thing since Turo ice cream. It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Greater's ice cream, and in the interest of full disclosure, I do the voice work for some of their commercials. In any case, when Greaters releases one of its bonus flavors, I race to try it and my favorite so far this summer is churo. You've probably had a churo at an amusement park or a county fair. It's deep fried dough that's traditionally rolled in hot cinnamon sugar. The Greater's version is cinnamon ice

cream with crunchy churro pieces. July is National ice Cream Month, and your buddy Dan says, get out and tried churro at a Greater Scoop shop. Now let's get to football. Pete Prisco from CBS Sports dot Com is one of my favorite podcast guests because he's opinionated and knowledgeable. I began our latest conversation by bringing up a prediction that he made back in April of twenty twenty, shortly after the Bengal selected Burrow with the first overall pick in

the NFL draft. Pe, don't want to start by giving you the opportunity to gloat, because when the Bengals drafted Joe Burrow, you said he would lead the Bengals to a Super Bowl win maybe two. The guys in the studio literally laughed at you when you said that. And sure, the Bengals didn't win it last year, but they got there in Joe's second year coming back from a serious knee injury behind a mediocre offensive line. Have the people

who scoffed apologized. No, they've taken what I said. And Brady Quinn, the former NFL quarterback, is one of those guys. They've taken what I've said. And they said I said they would win two, and that's not what I said. I said maybe two, he would win one in the next ten years. Well, he's ahead of scheduling in win one. But if they could block, he would have won one. And so I think the Bengals fans have to be thrilled with what they have in Joe Burrow. And I

go back to a conversation I had with him. I tell this story a lot, but I had a conversation with him at the Combine that one year. And I didn't know Joe Burrow, but at the super Bowl. We had two on at the super Bowl and I asked him, I said, you know two you lost to you beat them, but if you would you, if you came back around, would you have beaten him if you were healthy the second time? Remember they played LSU the second time. And

he said, well, I can't say that. I can't say that, and I asked Joe Burrow that at the combine and he answered the question conn of and he hesitated for second. He goes, you know, we did beat him when he was there, and I said, okay, there you go. That's what I want to hear. And I joke around about it all the time. I called fire in the belly. Joe Burrow has fire in the belly, and that's what you want from a quarterback. And I think that shows

up on the football field. So obviously you loved him coming out of the draft, but now that you've seen him for two years in the NFL, is there anything about him that's different or even better than you anticipated. No, He's about what I thought he would be. I think the cool under pressure for a guy so young is what really impresses me. I mean, the accuracy is there. The arm strength is better that I think than people

even thought it would be. I think he's calm in the pocket, but just when he keeps getting hit, he just gets back up and goes. And he took a beating. You know that. You see it all the time. That line was awful last year and it's amazing what he did and what that offense did with that offensive line. So I think if anything stands out to me and I thought he'd have a chance to be that way, it's responding and being so cool under the pressure and everything.

This is for a guy who's coming off an ACL last year, and I admit early in the season he looked like he was a little bit leery, but once he settled in, he was outstanding. We will obviously cover a bunch of Bengals topics here, but before we get to more of those, your borough prediction looks very strong, but nobody in your position gets them. All right, what is your all time worst freezing cold take? If you've got one. I thought Christian Ponder would be good. I mean, look,

I can. It's just like I always tell these guys because they bring them up on Twitter, and I'll go back and I'll say, Okay, I missed, but the team missed too and didn't didn't you know? I thought Christian Ponder would be good. I was wrong about that, But I can also bounce it out. I was the only guy that thought Josh Allen would be good. I was the only one. I mean, you couldn't find anybody, and I stuck to it through his rookie year, and people

killed me. They thought it was an aberration. He's gonna be bad and he might be the best quarterback in the NFL. I mean, he can make a case for that right now. So I was right about that one. I thought Burrow would be good. I thought Herbert would be good. I thought both Herbert and Burrow would be significantly better than two and both of them are. So I get them wrong. I can't. Christian Ponder was terrible. It was a bad prediction. It hurt the Vikings a

lot more than it hurt you, that's for sure. Our guest is Pete Prisco from CBS. The Bengals had an obvious weakness and addressed it in free agent see signing l Collins, Alex Kappa, and Ted Carriss. How good do you think their offensive line is now? Well, I think it's significantly better. And look, it was bad. I mean, look, I know who Chimadenigy might be a nice guy at all,

but he really struggled last year. I mean, we I do a thing where I give out a spinning top every week on our program for the worst offensive lineman in the league that week. And he wanted a couple of times. I mean, you know, it was bad and so and I know he's a tackle who went inside and he can now he's just gonna play swing tap he's so he's probably gonna be a good swing guy. But he shouldn't have been put in that position. So I think they will be upgrade. Lyle Collins is really

a good player. I mean, he's a good player. I think you know, Ted Carress, smart guy, gonna be good in the middle of that line. You know, Kappa is a good player, tough, physical guy. And I think Carmen will be better. I mean he kind of threw him in there and put him in, put him out, pulled him in, pulled him out, and I think that that kind of hurt him a little bit, and so I think he'll be a better player. So I think the line is significantly better than it was a year ago.

Pete Prisco is our guest. This is the third strade year that the Bengals have spent heavily in free agency, and now they're building an indoor practice facility. I've seen interviews in the past where you have pushed back against host who said the Bengals are an incompetent franchise and losing franchise, whatever term you want to use. When will we see the national narrative change. What's it going to take? Well? I think winning a Super Bowl would have helped, but

I think last year kind of does help. And I go back to their scouting department. Okay, it's not a big scouting department, but I think the way they do it is actually a really good way. There's so much input, input and cross you know, referencing everybody that I think, you know, Tobin handles it the right way. He allows his guys to do their work and he listens to him.

There are so many teams that have giant scouting departments and they send their guys out and they do all this work and they're out all week and they get all information and they come back and they give them reports and then the GM says, no, I don't like it that way, Whereas that never works. And I think you're seeing that with what they've done. They've drafted very well. They've made good decisions in free agency, and I think

that showed up last year. So I think getting the practice facility is big and where are they putting that They put in right next to the stadium right there. Yeah, more or less across the street going toward the Ohio River. Yeah. And again if you win, those are easier to get done, no question about that. Pete Prisco is our guest. You can follow them on Twitter at Prisco CBS. You recently released your list, your annual list of the NFL's top

one hundred players. The Chargers led the way with nine guys. The Rams have three in the top ten, which is pretty extraordinary, including the number one guy, Aaron Donald. The Bengals had five guys in your top one hundred that is tied for the fifth most. I think people might be a little bit surprised to learn that your highest rated Bengal isn't Joe Burrow, who is high at number twenty one, but it's Jamar Chase at number eighteen. Why so high for Jamar after one year? I think he's

one of those receivers going to be special. And you know, we see it now where if you get that special guy, he kind of elevates the rest of the group and makes everybody else better. You know, Justin Jefferson does it in Minnesota's a young rising guy. And we see these receivers now making their money by the way, tons of them, and we saw it, and I think he's in that class. I think he is truly going to be a special player,

and he makes it easier on Joe Burrow. And I think the ability to go get the fifty fifty ball, the ability to rip off the big play, and I think that's why I put him in that class. And again, there are a lot of really good receivers and him and Justin Jefferson are two of the better young ones. Amazing to think on that team that caught passes down there from Joe Burrow. Easy to see why he threw

sixty touchdown passes there when your targets like that. So your five Bengals in the top one hundred are Chase Burrow, Trey Hendrickson, Joe Mixon, and Jesse Bates. Jesse Bates obviously an interesting name right now because of what's happening with him in the franchise tag. If you're the Bengals, what would you do with Jesse Bates and his contract. I think he's I don't think he played that well early last season. I think he'd be the first one to tell you that he said he got caught up in

the whole contract situation. This is a big year for him. I think you gotta let him play it out. You drafted with an eye on him one of maybe both those guys, leaving both those safeties, and I think they're both if I mistaken, he's in the franchise tag and vine Bell he's in his contract year. Yeah, third and final year of the free agent deal he signed. So you drafted, you know, with an eye on replacing one of those guys at least, so I think it'll be

interesting to see how they play. I'd let it play out. I think Jesse Bates is a really good player. But again, if you rush to sign guys like that without replacing them with a cheaper version, then you get into some situations where you have capell and you have a lot of good young players that you're eventually gonna have to pay big money too. So I'd be careful with that one. I like him as a player. Wherever you go, he's gonna be a good player, but it might not be

in Cincinnati. DJ Reader did not make your top one hundred, but he did earn honorable mentioned status. Do you consider him to be one of the more underrated guys in the league. Yes, absolutely, He's been that way for a long time. By the way, he's a really good player and the guy you want to have inside on your defense. I think what he did last year was truly impressive. Now you know, the issue is what happens j Hill comes back. He played well last year and I think

he's good next to him. I like the Carter kid they drafted out of Florida. I think he's gonna be a good player again. Draft to replace, you know, you draft to replace, and I think they get that. And for all the criticism that they get, I don't think it's warranted when you watch what they do and how they handle the roster. Zach Carter was their third round pick. Dax Hill, the safety at of Michigan, is obviously their first. What do you think of Dax Versatility in this league,

that's what you want. You can play him outside, you could play him at slot corner, you could play him at safety. And you know, more and more teams are going to three safeties, and when you play three safeties, you know, even next year, if they're all there, he could be the third guy on the field. Or you can bring bell down and play him back, and I

think that's where this league is heading. And tool teams start running the football again, you know, that's where we're going eventually, if game is and I always thought it would be an air game, and it's moved to that. I said that twenty five years ago. I said, this game is gonna be an air game. You're gonna spread people out, You're gonna throw the football. You know, I was a big fan of air Correal way back in the day. I always love Marino thrown around. I always

thought you needed to get to that. Well, now we've got to that, and the rules mandate that that's an advantage for you. But when does a team start going back to pounding it when they get when you get little, you start pounding him up from because everybody, you know, the bigger defensive end is now a defensive tackle and you know, and so you put him inside, you're gonna

run on them now a little bit. So I think we might have to see an adjustment eventually, But for now, three safeties on the field makes a lot of sense. Belichick does that in the postseason, doesn't he. He pounds pea Yeah, you can bet. But again, like I see teams that are too reliant on the run that get caught in the postseason. Tennessee. Tennessee runs the ball well, carries him to the playoffs. Every year. They might win a game or two running the ball, but eventually you

have to be able to throw it. You have to be able to get big plays. You know, the Bengals will be able to run the ball better this year. I think. I think mix is gonna have a big year running the ball, and that will take pressure off the offensive line and it will make their passing game better. Even if the numbers might not be gaudy, they will be a better offense this year. A few more questions for Pete Prisco, senior NFL columnist for CBS sports dot Com.

The Ravens are healthy. The Browns traded for Deshaun Watson. The Steelers made Kenny Pickett the first quarterback taken in this year's draft. How does the AFC North stack up in your opinion? About a month away from the start of training camp. I think the Bengals are the best team, and I would right now on paper that I picked him to win the division. I think the Ravens are going to be the second best team. They're gonna be back.

You know, Lamar Jackson missed so much time it was, you know, on that on the field and never really looked like himself last year. They'll be back. You know. What happens with the Watson situation, that's the thing. Is he gonna get suspended for a year or whatever? You know, we don't know, so I think if I look at it, I'd say Bengals won Ravens two, rounds three and then the Steelers four. And I like Kenny Pickett. I think Kenny Pickett for Bengals fans might, but I want to

hear this. He has a little bit of Joe Burrow in him. You know, he can sling it. He's got a little bit of an attitude, and he plays with a toughness about him. I think Kenny Pickett for it might be one of those guys that the Steelers found and he'll end up being a long term quarterback. And it could be Pickett, Burrow and Lamar Jackson the division for a long time. And if Watson gives you things straighten on him too, You're right, Bengals fans don't want

to hear that. We're hoping that's a prediction along the lines of Christian Ponder. Yeah, I bet you do, all right, Pete, I got one more question for you. Last week a group of loyal Bengals fans held an event called Jungle to the Hall Too. They are trying to make the case that Anthony Munio should not be the only Bengal in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Do you have any strong feelings about Ken Anderson, Ken Riley, Willie Anderson or any other former Bengals as Hall of Fame candidates.

Ken Riley should have been in already, and that one's amazing to me. Anybody who watched Ken Riley wats to play, he should be in the Hall of Fame. I think, you know, when you look at Ken Anderson, you could make a strong case for Ken Anderson and what he did and how he did it. I again, another offense I enjoyed really watching, so I could put I would have no problem with either one of those. You know, and Willie Anderson gets pinged because he played right tackle,

and that's unfair. Look Tony Vaselli, who I know very well, he's going in this year. I can't wait to see him go in. Was a great left tackle and people said, oh, well, he protected Mark Burnell's left handed quarterback. Well, Anthony Unos prod prodected Boomer's blind side. I didn't protect Boomer's blind side. So yeah, I think you can make a case for Willie Anderson and I all three of them strong consideration.

Maybe two at least of them should get in. And if I had a stronger feeling on any of them, I probably put Ken Riley in sixty five. I NTS is hard to ignore, isn't it. It was a playmaker. I mean you could just see me at the long leg. He is a playmaker. Yes, I would put and if I ranked him, I'd probably go Riley, then Anderson, and then Willie Pete. You are one of my favorite podcast guests. I always appreciate your time. Keep up the great work, and I'll hit you up again in a few months.

I'll see you a calf in about three weeks. Fantastic, Thank you very much. You got it. He came out with his NFL power rankings earlier this offseason and had the Bengals had number six in the NFL and number three in the AFC, behind the Bills and Chiefs. Pete wrote the following the off season was about fixing the offensive line, and they did it. They also added a few nice pieces in the draft on defense. All of

that will again make this team a contender. The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play fantasy football game. This past season, Ultimate Bengals awarded a weekly winner during the course of the year, with tickets, autographed merchandise, and money can't buy experiences all up for grabs. Find Ultimate Bengals in the App Store and Google play. Back.

In April, the Bengals announced that they are exercising the fifth year option of offensive lineman Jonah Williams, meaning he'll be with a team for at least two more years. So just how good is the former first round pick of Alabama? I recently discussed that and much more with Brandon Thorne, the author of the Trench Warfare newsletter, where he writes and post videos about offensive and defensive line play. Last week, he featured a film study with the Bengals

left tackle, who is still only twenty four years old. Edon, how did your fifty minute film study with Jonah Williams come about? I basically just reached out to him via direct message, and you know, we we've talked over the years. You know, I first met him at the Combine when he was there, I was with Duke manny Weather just kind of you know, networking around town in Indianapolis, and

you know, bumped into him. So I got to at least, you know, kind of get a face to face meeting and just you know, put a name with the face kind of thing. And then, uh, you know, I think we had already been following each other and may have talked you know, online a little bit before that, but then after that, you know, I started asking him more questions about like things I was seeing on film, stuff like that, and then over the years, you know, it's

just we've just talked more and more. He's just been really generous with his time. So I you know, thought it would be a great thing to get him on, you know, for a film room and actually like do a deep dive. So that's what we were able to do. So I'm excited about it and hopefully people get a lot out of it. I subscribe to your newsletter. I watched the piece. It was really informative for me because it's technical and I don't speak the language of offensive line.

At one point, Jonah mentions Newton's second law of motion force equals mass times acceleration and explaining one of his techniques. What were some of your biggest takeaways first and putting together all the video and then and discussing it with Jonah. You know, I think you kind of touched on it. He's he's pretty, uh, I think, analytical in his approach, you know, to the position, and you know he's just

just the way kind of his mind works. I guess he could really break it down in a lot of detail, you know, whereas there's other guys that I've talked to, you know, on the offensive and defensive line where they basically just tell me they go out and they play football, you know, they they just react to what they see and just be an athlete or you know, just and some guys can play in the NFL at a very high level with that mindset, and other guys you know,

think about it. I don't know about more, but definitely differently. So Yeah, he's just one of those guys where a great guest to have on a film room, you know, for people who love offensive line, because you know, he'll talk about a lot of different techniques and details, you know,

and footwork and angles and all kinds of stuff. So those are the kind of guests that I love having on because I could kind of nerd out a little bit with him, you know, on offensive line and it's great, so that it's kind of like opened my eyes a little bit to that being his style, and also confirmed it a little bit as well, because you know, coming out of Alabama, I remember I think Dane Brugler and his draft guide had something about, you know, the I

think the Alabama coaches called him the intellectual or something like that, you know, and he largely because of how meticulous he was and detailed about his film study in college, so you know, it just came across, you know, I think in the interview too as well, so that was cool. And then you know, more technical stuff, just like how he dealt with the cross shop technique that pass rushers in the NFL use right now maybe more than any

other move in the NFL. His ways of going about, you know, countering what they're trying to do to him. That's kind of one of the main topics I wanted to touch on for the Film room because we had talked about that me and him in the past, and I've gotten some breakdowns from him that were amazing, and I would just thought I would love to get him, give him a little bit more of a platform to kind of talk about it, you know. So yeah, it was, it was cool, it was It's pretty enlightening and uh yeah,

just a lot of fun. I think something that was also informative for me is that you didn't put together fifty minutes of clips of him dominating. There are some where he dominates, but others where the guy kind of hasn't beat many recovers and maybe kind of saves the day at the last second. Did you find that to be especially helpful and evaluating his play. Yeah, I mean when I do my own evaluations, obviously, I watched the whole entire games for college guys, pro guys, and all

see the negatives. I mean, when you do a film room, you want to focus on the positives. Obviously. I'm not there to present an evaluation to people. Necessarily, I'm there to present what this guy does well, how he wins,

and then just talk football in a fun way. So not a lot of guys like to talk about their losses and they can't do it in a fun way obviously, so you but at the same time, you do want to kind of give of, you know, as well rounded of a view as possible without doing a full evaluation of the guy on a film room. So I do kind of, you know, put a couple of those in there and hope it goes well, you know, um, because you know they're not seeing the video prior. But yeah,

you know, just some stuff that I think. I specifically look for losses that I think could be good teaching opportunities because I know my audience largely consists of players and coaches, so I want them to see or to hear, you know, and see how a pro handles losses, how you know, get a little insight into the perspective, how they handle it mentally, and then you know ways that they fix it, uh, you know, and just strategies and stuff like that. So that's what I did with Reshawn

Slater as well. When I did his film room like a month or two ago. I put in you know, more of his losses than I did for Jonah and the same kind of deal. You know. It was just really cool to you know, hear them talk because I think they know the way I'm going about it is, you know, with the right intent. You know, I'm not trying to make them look bad. I'm trying to, you know, present those kind of teaching opportunities to help guys learn who are playing and coaching the position. So I think

they're more receptive to that because of it. So, yeah, it was good to get those in there. And I feel like I always learned a lot in those situations, you know, So I'm thankful that guys are open to talking about it. Offensive and defensive line analyst Brandon Thorne is our guest. As Jonah watched with you, he noted that he could really see the progression in his own play from Week two against the Bears to playoff clips against the Raiders. How good is he now? And how

good do you think he can be? This was his first full season, you know, as a pro. You know, he missed a whole rookie year, and then you know the ten games, and now you know he played pretty much the whole year. One p the snaps, he played all that. So I think that's important kind of to point out, like a backdrop to set up the answer to the question, because I do think he still can get better. But where he is right now, I see him as definitely a solid, you know, average left tackle.

But I lean and I don't know if this is biased or not, but you know, when I'm stacking, and I'm going to write an article before the season starts where I actually stack you know, the positions left tackle through right tackle and everything in between, like I did last year. So I'll have a more of a specific answer here and probably the next month for people. But I would definitely say he's in the top half top

sixteen left tackles in the league. And I think he's probably you know, top twelve, maybe somewhere in there maybe, I mean that's probably you know, in that range. I think, so closer to above average is probably how I look at him. And I think that he could still become very good, you know, and be a top ten left tackle. Uh you know, I think he has that ability, So yeah, you know, not a crazy high ceiling. I don't ever

see him being necessarily a top five left tackle. I don't think it's impossible, but I would be more comfortable betting on like a top ten left tackle, and I think I think it's really just a matter of time. I mean, if he could play, you know, another full season, I think we'll see you know a lot of what we saw last year and you know, some minor improvements, which is really what is needed. Um you know, nothing

drastic needs to improve with him. I don't think it's just it's really just staying healthy at this point and stacking years, because man, when you go back and watch his tape, you know, he's putting a lot of difficult situations. Obviously, the team, the you know, the the offensive game plans and stuff like that had to help out the right side a lot more than the left. So he's put on islands quite a bit. And you know, obviously in

that division there's some outstanding pass rushers. You know, the amount of times that he's playing Miles Garrett one on one is is pretty amazing. And I think he did really well, you know, not perfect. Obviously, no tackle in the league is going to be perfect against Miles Garrett that often, you know, with that many reps against him, but man, he did a lot of really good things

against Miles Garrett last year and the prior year as well. Um, So he has that ability to go out and play on an island against elite level competition and do well. And I think that's an incredibly important thing for a left tackle. Um now at this point, it's about refining little things with his technique and being more consistent so he can be even better because it you know, there is room for improvement. But but he has that ability though, and you know that's that's huge for a left tackle.

And in the run game, I think he's definitely good, you know, above average right now. He always has been since Alabama. He's a well round player. So that's what I've always liked about him coming out and everything. He's well rounded. So yeah, I would say, you know, average to above average right now. And you know climbing. Brandon Thorn is our guest. He is the author of the Trench Warfare newsletter. We did a segment for this podcast prior to the start of free agency, and the Bengals

went out and spent heavily. I'm going to give you the three guys that they signed and ask you to give some observations about each of the three. So right tackle l Collins, he'll be twenty nine this month, six years of NFL experience. I'm quitting previous time with offensive line coach Frank Pollock. Right guard Alex Kappa, he's twenty seven, four years in Tampa Bay as starter on a Super Bowl team. And center Ted Carris, he's twenty nine, six years in the NFL, started the last three years with

the Patriots and the Dolphins. Your thoughts on the trio of Collins, Kappa and Carris and the impact they could have. I like this trio. I think the right side of this offensive line is going to be dramatically better than last year. You know, I don't think it would have been too difficult to be better than last year, but

this is a pretty significant climb. I think that people should expect from the right side, you know, arguably the worst right side in the league last year at different times, you know, if Reef wasn't out there, especially, but man, I mean Alex Kappa and Leo Collins. I think that's going to be a really good duel on the right side.

Leo Collins is I think, you know, when healthy, you know, which is another question, you know, but if he's healthy, you're looking at, you know, a borderline top five right tackle in the league, certainly a top five or three run blocking right tackle. He's just a total stud as

a run blocker and pass protection. There's just not a lot of tackles in the league as big and as strong as he is and is physical, so he brings that element to the offense that he's just going to train informed the way it looks, you know when you're watching them play. He's just going to bring kind of a tone setting presence to the to the line. That's going to be really cool to see Um at a position that you know has been a major concern for

the team. So that one is my favorite signing, you know, and I think most people you know think he's probably the best signing UM and uh Kappa you know, has been solid for a while now, and he's gotten better every year he's been in the league. Almost He's kind of like Jonah in some ways where maybe not like the most physically gifted guy in terms of like you know, height, weight, length, athletic ability, you know, more of kind of like at that baseline level that you need. But man, really crafty,

technically sound, tough, you know. So he's going to be a steady presence more than anything, I think. And then Carriss would be the third guy UM that I would rank, you know, after those two. Carriss is at this point to me a guy who could potentially be steady, but to me is more so like a really high end swing, backup interior guy who could back up both guard spots and center. He could start for you and you'll be fine.

There's gonna be matchups that are going to be an issue, you know, if he's isolated against high level interior pass rushers and different you know, things like that. But you know you can get by with him, you know, So that that's how I view him. You know, ideally you would love to see you know, that position may be upgraded in the next year or two, but hey, you know, for twenty twenty two, with what you have around him

and everything, I think that it'll be just fine. But like I said, there's gonna be some isolated situations where he might be able to be exposed a little bit more than the other guys. So, but yeah, he brings a lot, like off the field, a lot of the intangible type stuff that is hard to quantify that will be valuable for the actual offensive line room with his

experience and you know, smarts and stuff like that. So he's going to bring value that we're not going to be able to necessarily measure either, So I think that's part of his appeal. But yeah, that's kind of how I feel about those guys. Left guard is still up for grabs. Jackson Carmen, came Identagy, rookie, Cordell Volson, perhaps others will be in the mix for that position. Do you think that the Bengals will get competent play out of one of those guys. I mean, I think Jackson

Carmen could still be a good player. I've said this on other podcasts, and you know, if you read my evaluation of him coming out of Clemson, you probably get the same idea. You know, I think coming out his technique was very inconsistent. He played left tackle, you know, that's evaluated him a left tackle, but I projected him as a guard. And yeah, I mean I think his his use of hands are going to have to get better.

He's going to have to clean that up and not you know, let guys get underneath and inside of him as often as they do play with the better leverage, you know, more better, just better overall technique. But in terms of like physical gifts, size, athletic ability, he's very physical, competitive,

toughness I think is good. Like, he has a lot of elements that you can't teach that are valuable that suggests that he can develop into a quality, quality starting guard more so than anybody else I see on the roster in terms of like physical traits. So for that reason and due to his age, being as young as he is, that's the guy that I would hope wins

the job. And I would expect him to win the job, assuming off the field and you know, work ethic stuff and all that stuff checks out and he's you know, dialed in and all that kind of stuff. Mentally, he to me is the guy that you want to win this job because his upside is deaf only the highest um. And it's I think a really nice duo to be in between and Jonah and Kerass, you know um just kind of the way they play, uh and and everything.

I just think that that that could really help him, you know, having those two guys who are you know, more technically sound, you know, more more steady, That that can really help a young guy, you know, to kind of sandwich him in between two guys like that. So I like, I mean, I feel like the floor is his now you know like he's in a good position

to succeed. He has a good coach. You know, he's in between two good players or two you know, quality players one good player, I would say, you know, an a quality player, So like, yeah, that would be my pick there um, And I'm excited to see what happens, you know, because he has a lot of talent. Man, it's just if if he could put it together now at this point, Brandon Thorn is our guest. You can

follow him on Twitter at Brandon Thorne NFL. We hear which is say that offensive lineman make a big jump from year one to year two. The PFF grades don't necessarily show that. Where do you fall on that idea that from year one to year two is a big jump for offensive lineman. You know, I haven't done a league wide study on that, so I don't know that I have, you know, a great opinion on it. But I think even if I did do like a study on that, I think it really comes down to a

case by case basis. I mean, you might be able to identify some trends if you do the study, but it really is a case by case basis. You have to look at who the player. Is his situation? Does he have the same offensive line coach from year one to year two? Is he playing in the same offensive scheme year one to year two? Is he playing next to different guys year one to year two? What kind of injury did he have? Did he end his first year with an injury? Did he end his first year

on a high note? You know, in the list goes on of all this context that you just don't have. So, I mean, you know, I don't want to cop out the answer, but I feel like that's my answer. You know, it's a case by case basis. Really final question for Brandon Thorne. You did a lengthy review of the draft in your Trench Warfare newsletter, and under the category of top ten biggest values, you listed Ben Brown, an interior offensive lineman, out of all miss that the Bengals didn't draft,

they signed him as an undrafted free agent. What do you think of Ben Bryant? Yeah, he was a guy that I watched late in the process for Bleacher Report. You know, he was one of the last guys after I was through. You know, I don't remember how many I watched sixty guys or whatever. On the offensive line. He was one of the last guys. But he struck me as a guy who could come in, earn a role on an offensive line as a backup early and provide value in multiple positions center and guard. And you

know that's primary early due to his size. Just he plays with a very wide basse, strong base, so balance as well, and he's strong. I think his strength is solid, and he's very physical, very experienced and inside zone and gap concepts in the run game, which translates to most schemes in the NFL. He definitely needs to kind of clean up, you know, his play speed and body control, to me were kind of some of the issues that I saw on tape, so and and that kind of

play that kind of shows themselves in different ways. You know. I think processing skills can get a little cleaner, reading things out quicker, you know, things that are technically coachable not always fixed. But for the most part, I thought that there was a foundation in place here with him with his size, arm length is very good as well, you know, and strength that he could earn a role.

So I had a six round great on him. You know, for me, that's a backup guy who's draftable at least, so when you guys signed him in the undrafted pool. I thought that was good value because to me, you know, he was like a late day three kind of guy. So, yeah, he's one of those guys I would loved to have gotten, you know, where the Bengals did and just bring him in. You know, see how he absorbs the playbook. You know, you know, he could play multiple positions. He has some

good size, physicality, some pretty good technique in the run game. Yeah. So he's a guy who would have liked to take a swing on and I'm glad the Bengals did. I think that he has a shot to you know, practice squad. You know maybe or you know one of the maybe that seventh offensive line spot potentially, but you know, just one of those guys that you could develop and you might have something down the road. We will definitely have a close eye on him in a training camp. Looking

forward to seeing all of these guys. And again, I really enjoyed the film study with Jonah Williams. I can't wait to discuss it with Jonah when I see him in late July at training camp. As I mentioned, I started subscribing to the Trench Warfare newsletter a little while ago It's great content for those of us who are always interested in learning more about offensive and defensive line play. Tell folks how they can subscribe and the types of

things they get in the Trench Warfare newsletter. Yeah, so people can go to Trench Warfare dot substack dot com and I mean you could just pretty much subscribe there. You know, you enter your email address in and there's different options that you can select, and I try and get an article out every week and that's kind of

the goal. So, you know, the last few weeks was a little up and down because of kind of the time of the year, but throughout the season, I'm pretty consistent with that, and you know, had the Jonah Film Room. I have another very exciting film room for me personally coming out Monday, and that's with Raiders left tackle, former left tackle Donald Penn and former left guard Collecchio Smile or Ko as a lot of people know them. Those

two guys. That twenty sixteen Raiders team offensive line was one of the best offensive lines I've watched since twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, maybe the most physical offensive line I've ever seen, and those two guys were a big part of it. So I had them both on for a film room that's about an hour long, and we just watched tape from twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen because they were together then as well. They both made Pro Bowls those years.

Ko was a first team All Pro. So I feel like having those guys on to it was really cool because they kind of got to reunite, which was awesome. So it was a lot of fun. But then also just the insight from those two was incredible. They picked up right away, they knew details from the games, they knew calls, they knew. It was incredible to listen to them talk. So I think people who want to learn more players, coaches as well all that are going to

get a lot out of that. So film rooms I love doing those, and then in season I do a whole bunch of different stuff. Film rooms a grade every sack in the NFL and assign a grade to it, a bunch of different cool stuff, try to break down techniques and Yeah, so if you want to learn more about offensive defensive line, I think it's a good resource. It definitely is. I'm enjoying it immensely and I always appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on branded Absolutely thanks

for having me. That's going to do it for this episode of The Bengals Booth Podcast, presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and Google Play. And if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks

for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast. St