Bengals Booth Podcast: Fixing A Hole

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the greatest thing since Tris Gets. By now, you've probably heard the story about Joe Burrow having some of the Bengals free agent acquisitions over to his house after dinner last week and offering up some crackers and cupcakes. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the crackers were trist gits. For my money, the humble trisket, made largely from three ingredients wheat, oil, and salt, is the perfect snack for a very specific set of circumstances.

Here goes, you're hungry, you're looking for something to nosh on, and as you start to look through the cupboard, you find that box of triskets that you totally forgot about. Sure they're not as tasty as potato chips, doritos, tostitos, or fritos, but a few tris gets always gets the job done, whether you need a snack or need to impress free agent offensive linemen. Now, let's get to this

week's guests. On Thursday, nearly one hundred NFL GMS, coaches and scouts attended Pro Day at the University of Cincinnati. The Bearcats could have as many as eight players drafted this year, and cornerback a Mad Sauce Gardner is expected to go in the first half of the first round. The Bengals had several staff members on hand, including head coach Zach Taylor and Director of player Personnel Duke Tobin.

I spoke to Duke when Pro Day was finished, Duke, how would you describe what the Bengals had been able to get done in free agency so far? Well, Um, well, we planned our work and we worked our plan, and you never know exactly how that's going to come together. In free agency. It's there's a lot of moving pieces. But we were able to secure some guys that we were high on that we felt fit needs for us and and fit our culture, you know, number one. And

so we're happy. We're pleased with the way it's gone so far, and you know, we've got our eyes on the draft. Still got some new guys that will be coming in via the draft, so we're excited. It's hard to keep every team as is, but if you're staying the same, you're you're getting worse, and so you've got to continually try to get better. And we think the guys that we're bringing in are going to help us

do that. I'm paraphrasing Zach Taylor from a news conference that he did recently the same day as Lal Collins, but he said going into free agency, he was kind of hoping you would be able to add two offensive line starters and was pleasantly surprised it turned out to

be three. Did you feel the same way. Well, I mean, we were looking at a lot of a lot of positions and the opportunities came there, which was important to us because we wanted to make headway there and we wanted to bring in some guys that were proven, guys that were leaders, guys that you know, are consistent players for us. We think that will benefit our quarterback play for sure. And and yeah, it's um, you know, you

never know exactly how it's going to work out. You never know what the prices are going to be, and who's going to have interest in you, and and you know who's going to go elsewhere, and you just keep grinding. It's a it's a long ten days or so, but the first few days are are very involved to get those deals in place. And our guys did a great job,

you know, getting a set up to do that. Frank Pollock has made the term glass eaters popular all of a sudden these days from using that expression at the combine. How much did these guys fit Frank Pollock his personality and the style of play. Yeah, I think they did obviously. Um, you know, if we're gonna pay like I said at the combine, if you're going to pay somebody a lot of money, you want to make sure you know what

you're getting. In with these three guys, we know what we're getting and you know they're there are guys that have shown that that number one, they're good teammates. Number Two, they can produce on the field, and so we're happy that it came together. We're chatting with Duke Tobin. Let me get a thumbnail sketch on those offensive lineman, beginning with Ted Carris. He's twenty nine, just turned twenty nine. He's got two Super Bowl rings penciled into place center

for the Bengals. He's obviously played center in both guard positions in his NFL career. You know, versatile, It can do a lot of different things. We think he's a good leader of men. We believe that he can be a very quality center and meshwell with Joe. We believe he sees the game very well, which a center has to do. And we believe he's able to direct the traffic and when you're in the middle of the offensive line, you got to be able to do that. And then

his place speaks for itself. It's very consistent, down in and down out. We think he's strong, we think he's tough. We think he can make all the blocks that we're going to require him to make. Alex Cappa will be your right guard. Twenty seven years old, a Super Bowl ring with a Bucks two years ago. Yeah, young, in the prime of his career and still got room to

get better. I love his temperament when he plays again, A guy that that showed all the traits that we want in a starting guard and the ability to make all the blocks, run the scheme that we're going to run, and then you know, hold the pocket firm, which is which is very important for for what we're doing. And U you know, again we're excited to have him. I think he's still got some improvement left to do and he's pretty darn good player right now. Lal Collins turns

twenty nine in July. It's pretty rare to get a premier offensive tackle and free agency who obviously is making a lot of money, but not break the bank money. Yeah, you know, it came together, was a great fit for him, It was a great fit for us. Um you know, he the last couple of years, you know, had some challenges you know, and and we really feel like he's going to get back to play in football the way that he's used to play in it, and um and

stay on the field. You know, there was there was a lot of moving pieces getting that put together, but we think we got to put together in a way that's that's good for both the Cincinnati Bengals and Lyle Collins. And so we're excited to have him. He's a premier right tackle and he can shut down that side of the field and look forward to seeing him do it. You've added a twenty eight year old tight end and Hayden Hurst, former first round draft picked by the Ravens.

What are you getting in Hayden Hurst? You know, we think in his new role being being the main receiving tight end here, he'll have a chance to really jump in production. And um. You know, he's he's athletic, he's tough, he's he can he can perform all the things you want in a run game. But then we think he's going to be a pretty good matchup problem for us. He's got great hands and he's he's about the right things. You know, it was very tough losing CJ. And um.

That's just the nature of of our game right now. Sometimes you lose really important guys that guys that you have a lot of love for. But we think we did a good job and going out and finding a guy that can fill that role for us. CJ got three years, twenty four million dollars and the Jets, And it seems like a lot of the tight ends on the free agent market did very well financially. Was that market a little bit more generous than you thought it

would be? Maybe? I think, you know, some of the very top guys got franchised, and so that helped the guys that were still hitting free agency a little bit. And then you never know how free agency is gonna go. It just takes one team to see the need and pay what they feel they need to pay to get them. And you know, we tried to compete with CJ. And I think we did, but you know, everybody makes decisions, and you know, I wish him well. He's he's one

of my favorite all time guys. We're chatting with Duke Tobin. It you sees pro Day did the addition of three starting offensive lineman quote unquote open up the draft and make it less likely that you would need to target

an offensive lineman early. I think that's, you know, our philosophy as the draft is always open because when you're picking thirty first, you don't know exactly who's going to get down there, and you know you're going to have a pretty pretty big pool of guys that you like, and you want to take a guy that's worth the pick for sure, not just a position. So yeah, the more you can fill in on your team, the better

you feel. And we've filled in on our team and feel really good about what we have in the building right now. But we're going to stay open to any opportunities to come to us at thirty one, and we just don't know what those are, but we'll be ready for any of them. As I mentioned, we're chatting at UC's pro day. Eight of these guys were at the NFL scouting combine. Six were invited to the Senior Bowl.

Are you amazed by what Luke Fickle has been able to do and developing NFL talent at the University of Cincinnati. It's been fantastic. I'm not amazed because I know what Luke's all about, and I know what kind of coach he is and what kind of recruiter he is and how players respond to him. So I wouldn't call myself a maze, but it's been great for the city because you know, it's it's just something to rally around and and what a great program and what a great group

of guys. And you know, I know he'll reload. This is a tough hit for him. He's got his own version of free agency where he can go out into the portal now and perform some free agent magic. Maybe too, but there's a changing landscape in the college football scene with the NIL money and the transfer portal, and so there's a lot of work to be done, and I know he's up to it. And I'm looking forward to seeing his team next year because they're fun to watch.

Last thing, I'll let you go. Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, and Matt Ryan are all coming to the AFC from the NFC. Brandon Bean from the Bills recently said he's calling for realignment because there's so much talent now in the AFC. But how much more difficult is it getting to be the team that emerges from this conference and ultimately goes to the Super Bowl. Oh, I know from experience It wasn't easy last year, so it's it's only getting more difficult, and we'll be up for the channel challenge.

We're a team that people recognize now and recognize what we have. And again, if you're staying the same, you're getting worse. And so you know, we're trying to improve and make games as well. But yeah, realignment doesn't sound so bad right now. Thank you for the time. I always appreciate it, you bet. The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the free to play fantasy football game.

This past season, Ultimate Bengals awarded a weekly winner during the course of the year with tickets, autograph merchandise, and money can't buy experiences all up for grabs. Find Ultimate Bengals in the app Store and Google Play. Up Next Bengals dot Com editor Jeff Hobson, which I can serve you, my resident Bengals historian. So here's my first question today. Do you think the Bengals have ever addressed their offseason

needs this decisively and effectively? Forty that's a kind way of saying I'm an old bat, but I appreciate you. I appreciate that, But I do you know what I did they have. I do think there have been historical comparisons. I go back to two thousand and three and Marvin's first first season here, and you know, he attacked locker room culture and defense and had to find some starters. So that's the class that gave you Kevin Haddie, John Thornton, Torry, James,

Reggie Kelly. You know, within about forty eight hours, thirty six hours. That was a pretty good haul, you know. And then they did some of that sporadically in that in the first couple of years of Marvin and then in twenty eleven, and it might have been spurred by

the lockout because they couldn't do anything. As you remember, they couldn't do anything from about February until the camps opened in July, so they had to go fast and that of course then they had to go quick and they got Nick Clements, Thomas Howard, Many Lawson, which was a pretty good you know, that was a pretty good

run there to get that defense together. So there have been there have been I think moments like this, but I think back to bag and hitting their needs because at oh three they needed everything and they got everything. But in this one, a very specific need and they went out and then not only did they get it, I think they got the three guys they probably if

you talked to them privately, those were the guys. Those are the three guys they could envision being here, and they did it, and they did it quickly, and they not only that, but they lost a tight end and then pivoted and got a guy who's you know, at least numbers wise, is a pretty good match for Siege at US on US. So I would say there happened moments three eleven. But if you put twenty one on top of if you put twenty two on top of twenty one on top of twenty, no, three years stretch

as has there ever been. You know, you got twenty twenty one, you had about you get, you get, you pulled four or five Super Bowl starters and you know, so you look at the opening day lineup for twenty twenty two and about probably about half are going to be free agents. They've been one of the biggest spenders in the NFL and free agency over the last three years. At what point is the national media going to stop calling Cincinnati cheap? Yeah? You know what forty If they

haven't done it now. I don't know if they're going to because they went to the super Bowl, and they went to the super Bowl probably because if you want to say the number one reason they went to the super Bowl, well besides Borrow obviously, but their defense and their defense was constructed in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one and combine, they committed about a quarter of a billion dollars total money, and they went to the Super Bowl. And if it then to still call them cheap, then

I I don't know how you get. I don't know how you get. You know, I guess the only way you can do it is you went to Super Bowl and you got a parade and Borrow tries to throw the trophy to Hayden Hurst. I guess I mean is that. I guess that's I guess that's the only way it's gonna stop. Hopefully you'll not be from one boat to the other like Tom Brady. You know. The other amusing thing to me is, you know, not only do they still get called cheap by some, but they get criticized

for signing guys to smart contracts. Now that makes no sense whatsoever when you can convince a really good player top fifteen at his position. Is all three of those offensive linemen are graded by Pro Football Focus to sign what can probably consider a team friendly deal that to me says your front office is smart and doing a great job, not that you're somehow cheap, No, right, I mean it also tells you get a pretty good club

because people are willing to do that. And and the other thing, Cordy, I get a laugh about is they called they talk about they're out of date. They're out of date approach to guaranteed money. It's out of date because they don't guarantee beyond the first year. And you know, is it is it out of date or is it smart? Uh? You know, particularly when you have a I think they've found other ways to do it, by the way roster

bonuses and such. But they have found ways to get, you know, to to do that without getting in trouble with guaranteed money. And you know, you know, I can't stress enough the respecter of the Joe, I shouldn't call it a respective. It will be a happy moment to get Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow will become to probably the richest football player who ever played. You'll probably have that

title for about eight minutes. But it's gonna happen, and you gotta and you gotta buck you know, and you gotta buckle down, and you know, you gotta just gotta. That might be when they stop saying that they're cheap for me, because I would imagine at some point they'll probably have to get past that guaranteed money thing with Burrow. But I'm amazed that the you know, calling it out of date. Is it out of date or is it or is it or is it effective? To me? It's

to me it's effective because it's what you said. They were able to get. These guys are basically team friendly deals make their team much better and not blow up the camp. You know, they haven't had to deal their best player, which teams have done. You know, they haven't had to you know, cut you know, a right tackle like the Cowboys had to do. So I just you know, I but you know, I get and they went to the super Bowl. So we went to the super Bowl with this philosophy. So you know, they got to do

with something right, no question. So all three of these guys are in their twenties, so they get them in their prime or close to it. None of them is breaking the bank. If you add up to three in terms of their per year salary, it's twenty one point seven five mill There are tackles making about that much. I mean, Tron Armstead got fifteen million a year this year,

so that wasn't crazy money for a tackle. Brandon Schurf got sixteen point five million dollars a year, and the combination inside of Kappa and Carris gets far less than that for what the Jags are going to play pay Brandon Shurff, who's a great player but has been injury prone and is in his thirties. Yeah, I mean it's it's kind of the same philosophy they you with the Woozier and Hilton uh in the weight last year and awake at the Jackson deal like a two for the

price of one. And it's interesting. I was talking to one of the scouts today and they say, you know, hey, that's that's the you get spread it up because if you like Onstead, you know, a great player, But if that's your one free agent and he gets hurt, you know, you're held hostage to that money. You know, I mean, at least you can spread this thing out. And I but to me, the key thing is is players got to want to be here and signed those deals and they know that they got a shot to get to

the big game. You know. So I think you know, you know, when you sign a check, you know, it's Katie Blackburn signon the check, but maybe in the notations it's thank you, Joe Burrow with the notations, you know, and you know in those little in those little notes, you know. So that's the big that's the big thing.

Is that because if you had to if you were trying, and we and they've been here, and they've been in the point where they've had to had to kind to blow out big deals because they had to learn guys to get here, you know, and so that roster havn't having a good roster. Boy, that that helps you convince guys. There's no question the Borough factor is real when it comes to free agency. From everything I've heard in the run up to free agency, agents were calling the Bengals saying,

my guy wants to play in Cincinnati. Yeah. The most popular guy in Indy was Steven Disipink, who who's the Bengals director of post scouting and is the point man and free agency. And I'm sure. He had to tell him, Look, guy, guys, we'll talk to you when we can talk to you. But you know, I'm sure that Monday they got a lot of Monday, the first day of free agency, they got a lot of just exactly what you're talking about.

And I think that it's uh but not only is he is he a great player, but I think he's the kind of guy. Obviously you watch him play, you love the guy. You love the way the guy plays. I mean, who was the guy? Who was the guy I was talking to the one of the coaches, the new coach, the new linebackers coach. Yeah, he's got a ten year old kid, and he says, uh, well, buddy, we've got to cho you know, we're gonna either come

back to Frisco or we're gonna go to Cincinnati. And uh, the kids said, boy, hey, Joe Burrow, that's great, let's go, you know. And he said and he said, it looks like we're gonna go to Cincinnati. And the kids said, great, Joe Burrow, let's you know, let's go. So, uh, you know, everybody knows Burrow. You know, it's it's it's it's great to have a great to have a player like that. So which of these free agent acquisitions is your favorite? You know, probably just because he came from New England,

right to Carris, But uh uh I I do. I do like Harris in the sense that he's you know, he's been so well coached and lap touched the head I'm sure has touched on this. And I had the opportunity to talk to coach Skarneckia Scarneki. Yeah, Harris's line coach with the Patriots, who's one of us, probably the Jim McNally of his day, you know, the ultimate offensive

line guru. And if you look at the you know, for years we've been looking at the Patriots lines and they've always kind of haven't dumped a lot of money in there. They always seem to trade guys when they get about ready to do a big deal. And because they know that coach Scarneki could really you know, the whole thing is about a unit. It's not the guy, you know. And so you know, Carris is a well well coached because if he comes out of that New

England program and he's just got a great story. I mean, the guy I think he's related to seven. I think seven of his family members played in the Big Ten, and of course he's a third generation player, and he's you know, the the grand nephew of Alex Carris, one of the one of the great characters an NFL and TV history. You know, he's got a great story himself. So he's got a comes from a great, great, great family pedigree, well coached in the game, and you know

got you know, get the perfect the perfect center. He's a smart guy. He's all in, he's all lineman, he's all offensive lineman. Right down the road in Indianapolis. He said he grew up an hour and forty five away from Paul Brown. So I think it's just, you know, it's a it's a great get for those guys. I mean, I mean, all of them are great. I mean, you know, all of them were great, were great gets. But Harris is an interesting guy, very charismatic guy, great sense of humor,

and that versatility is huge. Obviously you're gonna have injuries at some point on the offensive line. If he has to kick over to guard, he can do it right now. Penciled into play center. Be interesting to see if Tyler Linderbaum were there at thirty one. I don't know if the Bengals have him graded as highly as some of these draft gurus, but if they do and he's there, Carris's ability to potentially play guard would be interesting. You know,

that's draft discussion is still to come. I would say for me, I just can't believe how fortunate they were to land while l Collins. He's not even twenty nine years old, yet when healthy, he's proven to be one of the best right tackles in the NFL. He's going to be the tenth highest paid right tackle in the league if the reports of his contract are accurate. Three years,

twenty one mill. There are five tackles in the NFL making more than seventeen million dollars a year, and the Bengals get a great one in his prime for seven million dollars a year. That is tremendous value for a player of his skill level and track record. Oh, I mean it's and I think you're right. I mean he's a favorite too, just because of he comes out of the Frank Pollock school. So not only do they get a guy that you just as you so well said Hardy, a top player at a bargain rate, but at a

guy who knows he can walk in. He knows the scheme blind blindfold. He can walk in and he can play right tackle and in this scheme. And he's got a great reply. I mean, to me, what they did with those three guys, They not only you know, talent wise, but look how they change the culture of the room.

You know, youve got uh cars has been to two Super Bowl Carris's two rings, Kappa has one ring, you know, and Collins has been was a part of one of the top offensive lines in the game and has worked with that worked with the offensive line coach who's a who's an own story himself, with his with his mindset, and so I you know, the Collins, the Colins signing, it's just I think it really is a is It tells you a it tells you how effective they were,

what it's meant, what the Super Bowl appearance meant to them around the league. But it also shows you, I think what they got in Pollock and you know how they've really I mean, you know, just a week ago we were talking about how bad they were in the offensive line, and it was a punch line. They were a punch line, and it's all you about it. Suddenly they got to feel like they're at the very least, they're a hell of a lot better, no question about it.

They've still got a few bucks to spend in free agency, not for high priced guys, but for you know, roster depth kind of guys. What positions do you think they're most likely to target. Well, they've clearly got a shore up cornerback, uh, you know, as they're going to be some good lineman there. But you know, at thirty one, if they can grab a good corner, I think that's gonna be a it's gonna be that's gonna be the position of priority because all they've got the three starters,

so they need depth there. And I think also they're probably looking at you know, still looking for a backup tackle, probably looking for a rotation defensive tackle. Probably also looking for a rotational edge player. You know, but I do think they're I do think they're looking at defense. You know, they've also got to pick up some kind of a wide receiver, a wide receiver or two, because they've got they don't really don't have any depth. They really don't

have any depth there. So you know, it's like the same thing a corner. The three, the three they got her really good, but you know they need some numbers behind it. But I would say, you know, cornerback, rotational defensive lineman, and wide receivers. I think that's what we're looking at now. After Larry Ogan Job's deal in Chicago fell through when he flunked his physical. Is a return to Cincinnati on a short term deal a possibility in your opinion? I think the jury's out for another month.

I think they're gonna have to get a look at the foot. They're gonna have to see how the foot is. I think they're gonna try and get probably other players. Before that, Bengals made a strong, bold move for b J. Hill. I don't know how Larry's going to feel about that, but I think you know they would Larry Ogenjobi is as a guy, you won't find a better guy, a better locker room guy. And obviously his seven sacks showed

you what a fine player is. So I gotta believe if he's healthy and he wants to come back, I gotta believe, you know, in a month, that that would be an option. But I don't know that they're gonna wait around, you know what I mean, and wait around for that. I think they get A. You know, they get a they obviously feel like I think they get the kind of fill in the back end of that depth shot him in the D line. I don't know if they can wait for Larry's foot or not. Let's

talk safeties. Jesse Bates right now is on the franchise tag for twelve point nine mill for this upcoming season. They can continue to negotiate with him until July fifteenth to try to work out a long term deal or whatever reason. Safeties have not been breaking the bank this year in free agency. Marcus Williams goes from the Saints to the Ravens. He gets fourteen million dollars a year. Great money obviously, but not at the top of the pay scale for safety. Justin Reid goes from Houston to

Kansas City. He gets ten and a half million a year. Now, I don't think either of those guys is as good as Jesse Bates. But is the fact that Safeties are not getting big bucks this free agency cycle for whatever reason and potentially going to help Cincinnati work out a deal with Jesse Banks. I think the Bengals are committed to getting something done with Jesse I really do, because he's such a good locker room guy, and he's such a good player. I mean, he's the whole package. He's

a total package. The problem is they got to put that. They got to fit that package in with a contract for a franchise quarterback, and uh, where does a safety fit in that? And uh, you know that's that's I think that's the I think that's the a and I call it the specter of Burrow's contract because I think it was also you could see the shadow of it in this in this uh, in this free agency run, they went for the middle. You know, they basically went for the you know, there was a note there was

not a Trey Hendrickson deal for them. You know, they were not going to make a Trey Hendrickson deal or a DJ Raider read a deal they really can't with with with with Burrow looming, where Jesse fits into that, I'm not sure. I know they want to get something with him, uh, you know, to lock him up because he's a guy they want um. But I just don't know if Jesse's looking at those other deals, you know, I mean I don't you know, like you said it, those two guys are not Jesse Bates. So you know.

I think, you know, if if you're Bates and his agent and you're at this point, you know, I don't know, do you go for another cycle or or do you go for the security? You know, and it's a it's a tough you know. I'm glad, I'm not I don't have to I'm glad I don't have to answer that question. I'm glad get to observe. The Borough contract is going to be very interesting. The top quarterbacks in the NFL are all making more than forty million dollars a year.

He certainly is going to make above forty million based on what he's done so far in his NFL career, but the length of some of these quarterback contracts varies wildly. Patrick Mahomes signed a ten year deal for nearly half a billion dollars. Deshaun Watson five years, all guaranteed two hundred and thirty million bucks, So that's forty six million a year. So Burrow's going to make a ton of money. The interesting thing to see will be how it structured.

Can they spread it out like Kansas City did to lessen that the yearly cap impact? Do they want to reach a deal that long with a quarterback with anybody. It's you'd like to think that Joe's going to want to have good players around him so that you know, he'll want to get paid what he deserves. But I

don't know. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. I don't know, but I'd like to think that he will look at this is all right, how can I get above forty million dollars like the top quarterbacks get, but also structured in such a way that I can keep contending for Super Bowl titles. I don't think there's any doubt he'll say that. I have no doubt in my mind. And you know, the Proud family's been here before and

they've done it. They made boomeras size and if I'm not mistaken, they me him the highest quarterback in the league. At one point, they made Casson Palmer the highest paid quarterback in the league. Casson's was an interesting structure there. I think it went when he signed it at the end of two thousand and five. It went to two thousand and fourteen. Now, of course he didn't see it all the way. He had to trade the man and

they and they and they traded him. But you know, I think plus it's a different game now, it's a different league now than it was back then. But you know, uh, Bengals have been in this thing before. And I think Burrow, you know, I think they I think they know each other pretty well. Burrow and the Burrow and the Bengals. I think it's uh, they seem to be on the same mind frame. And I think, you know, uh, you know,

we've watched Brady down through the years. I think Brady down through the years always took a team friendly deal and uh, you know, it's gonna be interesting to see, I think, you know, but anybody who know who has you know, I don't know Borrow all that well. I've talked to him a little bit. I've talked to a

lot of people that do know. But I talked to Borrow enough to know that he wants to Oh yeah, so at whatever, at whatever that has to happen, well whatever that means financially, I you know, I don't know, because I'm not you know, I'm not an economist, which you have to be nowadays. But the figure this thing out or Paul Dayner, whichever comes first. But Da Dayner said this a long time ago. He thought that Borrow would be the first fifty million dollar dollar your quarterback.

He may be run but as you said, how does he how do we structure it? And but I think there's been a pretty good roadmap for guys like Brady in the Brown family, which has you know, they've you know, negotiated a lot of these deals. So I would think it's going to fit fit the team, in the market and the man. Of course, in Brady's case, his supermodel Brazilian wife was making more money than than he was, so that that may have helped him settle for a

few dollars less over the years. In any case, safeties didn't get a ton of money in free agency tight ends did. It seemed like anybody that played the position made serious bucks in this free agency cycle. And kudos to CJ Uzama for getting his twenty four mil over three years from the Jets. How big of a blow is that? I think, you know, obviously, even locker room,

I think it's a shot. Anytime you lose twenty your leaders, Barrow loses one of his security guys, you know, I mean, he always seemed he seemed to know as CJ was. I was surprised CJ didn't move because I really thought that Burrow. When Barrow came, CJ's career took off people. I mean, he was Joe's first two games, if I'm not mistaken, he threw his first touchdown pass the CJ before in the same game CJ blew out as Achilles correct and then last year, you know, he was really

a lot of big moments. So I was kind of surprised because I thought that was a real good, real good tanem. So I think that's a that's obviously going to be a blow I think in the room because he's such a good guy and an obviously a leader. But I think also the guy they shining and Hurst certainly has, you know, put up better numbers, and he did in his one year with Matt Ryan before UM, before the rookie, before Kyle Pitts arrived. You know, he put up a fifty catch season with Ryan and a

bunch of touchdowns. So I think they came out of it pretty well on paper, you know. I mean, I I think, you know, obviously losing a guy with CJ's big personality, I think that you know, you lose something there. But I also think it's a Zach's done a good job where he's made sure that that that locker room there's enough big personalities in there that it could make up for You know that now you don't. It doesn't rely on one guy. You know, of course, the guy

is Borrow. He's still got him. He's the he's the magnet. But you've also you've lost CJ. But you've lost, but you've also picked up three really good locker room guys in Kapa, Harrison, and Collins. And you know he's still get von Bell in the middle of the defense. Who's you know, I mean, you get you get leaders all up and down the thing. You know, that's why they went to the Super Bowl. So tough to lose. CJ. Great guy. I'd say, I always felt so uncomfortable talking

to CJ. Because he's clearly the coolest man on the planet and I had no shot when everybody talking to I just felt like I was some like I felt like I was some old guy. You know that he was high. Nice to see it, but I don't, you know, I think he was. I think he was as nervous around me as I was around him. He was so cool and I was not. Yeah, he's he's actually the second coolest person to Borrow because in Burrow's case, it's so effortless. I mean, nobody has ever been cooler without

trying to be cool than Joe Burrow. It's uncanny. Borrows so cool, he doesn't mind talking to me. He makes me feel cool. Borrow so cool. That's hard to do. That is hard to do. That. That might be the greatest accomplishment correct going that going to the AFC Championship Game is season. So what impact do you think free agency has had on the Bengals draft board. I just think it opens it up forty you might get drafted at thirty one. I mean, it just opens up the

whole thing. You know, they could even you know, I mean probably you know, probably not the I don't know, I could see him drafting them. I mean, if if a wide receiver was sitting in at thirty, winning was clearly the best player they take. But I also think if they got that way at thirty one, they probably trade back. But this means, I mean, the fact that they were able to get those three offensive linemen. I

just think it opens up the board form. I also think it's that's a good shot to get a good cornerback. You know, you can get a really good quarterback at thirty one. That's what I'm really That's what the first thing I thought about when Harrison Kappa game. I'm thinking, that's good. Now they can go Now they can resign Eli, and then they can go get a guy that maybe can you know, maybe can learn, a really good player that can learn under Eli and h Woosia. You know.

So that's that's that's kind of what I'm But again, it'd be interesting to see what if. What if what if Higg You know, they got T Higgins with thirty three, what if there's a guy like him at thirty one? You know what there will be. I mean, there's so many wide receivers now in every draft that there's going to be a really good one. I find it unlikely that they would make that move, but I guess you

can't rule it out. They were very fortunate last year that the Big three, the Cincinnati three way basically played every snap. The odds of that happening in back to back seasons, unfortunately, would be low. So you would like to have another really potent weapon at that position. If you could add one, you'd have to talk about it. That's all I have to say, you'd have to talk

about it. But you know, they always say, you know, one of the things about drafting a receiver of a bucketting a guy like Borrow, was well, now you don't have to draft the receivers so high. Well maybe you do, because I mean maybe, I mean, you know, the t Higgins was in the second round, Jamal was in the first round. Did Tom Brady ever have back to back drafts like that for receivers? Probably not worked out very

well though, you know, so who knows. But I also think that they're in a prime spot to trade back

because you just mentioned it. The receiver and that's usually where there's kind of a run on receiver is usually typically historically right there, or it could be you know, if if see how these quarterbacks vet, but maybe it is that's maybe that's I think they're hoping that that's where the quarterback run comes and then you know who, you know, somebody's going to be somebody's always I mean, if they're frady to get up to get to a quarterback,

they're desperate anyway, so that that would be interesting to see what kind of capital they could get there. That is the one thing about having the thirty first pick. There are teams that are going to be thinking, Okay, this quarterback is still on the board. If we get him, will control his rights for an extra year as a first round draft pick because of the fifth year option that we won't have if we take the same guy

in the back and round. So that makes that a very appealing position to be And in terms of trading back. On the other hand, the Bengals, there will be somebody on their board that's, you know, twelfth, that's still there at thirty one for whatever reason, because all these boards are different, and then they do the same math where they think, well, huh, if we draft the guy, we

get a fifth year as well. So it's there's some appeal in trading back obviously and getting extra picks, but there's also something to be said for controlling that guy for one more year. Yeah, I mean, I you know, when I that's why I think the quarterbacks go earlier. You know, the run probably going to be too late.

You know, it's probably gonna be too late now now you know, ten years ago good spot for a quarterback run there, you know, but I think or before the fifth year option came in, But now it's probably going to be at seventeen eighteen nineteen, you know, I mean, and I don't know the kid from pitch. They're raving about the kid. But this happens every doesn't happen every draft, whatever quarterback. It is always a quarterback that has a you know, good combine, good pro day, and all of

a sudden he goes from being just a guy. You're talking about it too. Well, he's gonna normally he's gonna be one of the you know, he's gonna. I guess they're talking about this kid in the top ten now, So does that? Does that? Does that ignight a run? You know? Does that Igknight to run earlier than you know? And that's just the way it is with quarterbacks now they're so coveted, and especially the Bengals are the best

example of what a quarterback can do for you. So it's uh, probably they're probably the run is going to happen before thirty one, but there will be a good wide receiver there. You know. I think see Higgins might have been their seventieth player on the board or whatever, you know, which is why they which was why they went for him and not Logan Wolves. I mentioned earlier, Deshaun Watson's deal in Cleveland. It's all guaranteed. Nobody's ever given a player a guaranteed deal like that in the NFL.

This is like a baseball contract instead of a football contract. Have there been any developments in free agency? Maybe that's one of them that you look at and think, huh, this could post problems for the Bengals down the road because of the precedent that it's setting. Yeah. I just we'll see how the Watson thing plays out. If that thing blows up, that's gonna be a damning thing for

guaranteed money, you know what I mean. Now, if he takes him to the playoffs for the next two years, Oh, everybody's good, you know, because there was a note I think by Florio on Pro Football Park the other day the ramsification of the NFL a copycat league. So everybody's trading now, nobody's nobody wants to picks to trade them, although they've got to be trading with somebody. Somebody likes

picks because they've been able to find teams. But I think Mike's point was it's a copycat league, but only if you win. So we'll see what happens with Watsonton Brown. I mean that thing could get ugly quick or he could, you know, he could, They could win the division, you know, And then I think, to me, that's where the fate of guaranteed money will be decided. But let's face it, I guess, I guess guaranteed money, you know, guaranteed money, I guess is coming is a comment at some point

in football. I don't know. I think it's an interesting It's just a different game of baseball very much so. I think one thing that's happened that would be a big concern in my opinion for the Bengals would be the deals that some of these wide receivers are getting. I mean, Tyree Hill thirty million dollars a year, Davante

Adams twenty eight million dollars a year. Prior to this wave of free agency, there was only one wide receiver making more than roughly twenty million a year, and that was DeAndre Hopkins twenty seven point two five and he only had a two year deal. The other top receivers were all right around twenty Keenan, Allen, Marii Cooper, Chris Godwin got twenty million a year Mike Williams got twenty

million a year this year in free agency. So instead of what normally happens where these the top of this pay scale rises incrementally from year to year, this was like the forty inch vertical at the combine, where suddenly the pay scale for the top wide receivers just jumped way way up. And the Bengals obviously have two young ones that they would like to pay and like to keep to go with the franchise quarterback correct, So it would strike me as being virtually impossible, wouldn't it. But

maybe they can find a way. I mean, you know, um, it's yeah, that I think that's that that's eye opening. I think also I think also the other thing is look at what's look at how look at how the quarterbacks are just I mean, I don't know, you know, Joe might make sixty million, I don't know. I mean the way look at the Watson deal, the the just I mean, I mean the lengths the teams are going

to find that guy. And it just seems like they get to be fewer and fewer quarterbacks, you know, I mean, they just get to be I mean, there's thirty two teams and there just doesn't seem to be enough, and it seems that dwindle by the year. And I don't want to because everybody and I don't know why, because everybody's playing seven on seven from from high school to college, you know, I mean, nobody hands off anymore. Everybody should

be should be expert passers. Yeah, well, the y is the jump from college to the NFL is that significant. It's so much more complicated. The athletes are so much better. If you know, if you're a great college quarterback, it doesn't necessarily mean anything when you get to the NFL. So when you find one like Joe Burrow, you make

sure that you keep them and you keep trying. And if you can't get Burrow, you know, it sets you back for you know, I mean, it takes down coaches, It takes down general managers, it takes down players if you don't have one. I mean, you know, I mean Chicago, look at look at Chicago, you know, say what you you know, people taking shots at the Bengals Horty, but they've always had a quarterback. It seems like, I mean

they're a stretched there at the turn of the century. Um, you know, well, in the nineties when when they drafted Clinger and moved away from Boomer and they couldn't get a figure out for a decade, you know, and that was and that and that really cost him, That really cost him. But there is something like the Browns having figured it out for three decades, you know, and some franchises like the Falcons, they just really hit it with

Matt Ryan just that, you know. But the Bengals have had down through the years, They've always pretty much always had a a If he's not a Pro Bowl quarterback, he's close. And Andy was on that. You know, people people up to pick shots at Andy, but he won games and he was went to a couple of Pro Bowls. So you know, to me, it's it's it's it's years like this way you say we are then, you know, couldn't they have a quarterback? Let's worry about the rest.

That's definitely a great position to be in. Final question for you, I appreciate your time. You are a dogged reporter. Have you found out what kind of crackers and cupcakes Joe Burrow served at his house last Friday? I have failed on that um And it's a great question, but I don't know, you know, I was thinking about calling the alignment, but do you think they'd really know? And I, you know, could you imagine Ted Carres said, oh, yeah,

they were? And because I was, it's interesting you should ask me that, Hordy, because I was thinking I'd love to know that. But how would I ask? You know, I might be you know, if I asked that, if Ted Carress, he might never talk to you again. You know, I mean, so you know, hey, what can you know? But he who knows no one Teddy might have said, oh, yeah, we had like kids. I love trikes. That's why I signed you know cheese, it's you know, and uh and

the cupcakes thing kind of threw me. I don't know that was I want to know what bakery they might have kept that from. That would have been a he could have been a busking guy, maybe servates or you know, one of the more like gourmet bakeries that that strictly makes cupcakes. It's all possible. Joe's got good taste. I just had this vision of him like where, you know, like Joe with his glasses, leaning leaning down and pulling him out of the stove. But I don't think that.

I don't think. I don't think that. I don't think that happened. You know, he's cool, but he's not. He's cool, but you know that that's why he's cool. I guess he probably probably dropped him. You know, he probably ordered out and dropped in sixty. But Hoarding, the next time you talk to me, I hope to have an answer for that. Well, you won't have to try to get it, because soon he'll have a cupcake endorsement deal and then then we'll know where he gets where he gets his cupcakes.

You got it, well, I hoarding. I just when I heard crackers, of course, my my, my eyes, my ears pricked up because I love crackers. In fact, in fact, Jack Jack Brenning, the old great those purpulations man said texting me, he goes, I can't believe Borrow didn't have you over for crackers because uh PJ and Jack always would put those. Scott would always put the chili crackers

from you know, Bings gold Star. You know, because we went there and he put them in that he blowed him up and put him in my mailbox because he knows how much I'd love crackers. So maybe he had that, Maybe he had a maybe he had chili Crackers. Cars did such a great Carris did such a great job on Bengals dot com with his uh eating chili. He and Kappa that maybe they brought them over. We will have to find out, butch, this has been fun. As always,

I appreciate your time. Look forward to seeing you in person sometime soon. Always great talking to the best Ohio broadcaster and Syracuse legend. Thank you very much, Morty. That's going to do it for this episode of the Bengals Booth podcast presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes and get

it now on the App Store and Google Play. And if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for listening to The Bengals boot Podcast