Bengals Booth Podcast: All I Want For Christmas

samaj p Ryan. NFL insider Tom Pellicero from the NFL Network joins me to discuss where the Bengals stand with the playoffs approaching, and this week's Know the Faux segment, we'll spend a few minutes with the voice of the New England Patriots, Bob Socie. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by Paycorps. More than twenty nine thousand customers trust Paycorps to help them recruit, pay, engage, and

retain employees. Learn more at paycorps dot com. Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since the Post Office fed x ups and anybody that delivers packages. My Christmas shopping started on Monday, Yes, this Monday, as in December nineteenth. Between the Bengals, you see football and you see basketball. It's an especially busy

time of the year and it's difficult to go shopping. Thankfully, between the Internet and the various delivery options, the gifts will be under the tree in time. It brings to mind the old Postal creed. Neither snow nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night, nor broadcasters who put off their shopping until the last minute stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds now. Let's look ahead to Sunday's game between the ten and four Bengals and

the seven seven Patriots. Cincinnati's offense is cooking. The Bengals are tied for fifth in the league and scoring at twenty six point four points a game, but we're facing New England defense that's tied for seventh in fewest points allowed at nineteen point four. This week, I caught up with Joe Mixon, who leads the team with one thousand and seventy nine yards from scrimmage. Jars speaking to Mike Brown the other day, and he brought up his respect

for running backs. He pointed out that you guys get hit by multiple people about every time he carry the ball and bounce up like it's nothing. Here's my question, how do you feel the day after? I mean, it's not too bad as bad as people think, you know, especially being used to that type of pounding. I mean, that's pretty much why are we train the way we

do specifically in the offseason. I mean, is definitely not a fun feeling, you know what I'm saying, but as definitely something that has not as bad as people think. But it can take a toll on you depending on what type of hits you take. You've been known to deliver the punishment as much as take it. Can you tell when a guy doesn't want to tackle you anymore? Yeah,

pretty much. I mean you just see they start really diving at the floor, just diving that air, and sometimes they're just really hoping to get lucky depending on Most of the time, with the space and opportunity at that point, you just try to do whatever you can and make them miss or basically make them indecisive on what they really want to do. I mean, obviously, most likely they're going to try to dive at our legs or our

knees or ankles. But well, most of the time, too many it's not too many dvs that's really going to sit there and hit you up top. I know you hate to miss games. You recently had to miss about two and a half games in retrospect, which is a good thing to get a break at this time of the year. Like you said, as much as you hate to miss him, it was definitely good for the long

run the body. And I think that the guys did a great job, especially p Run and Trey and Chris them guys did a great job coming in and filling in and just picking up where we left off. And I think they did a hell of a job. And I hang my hat and I'm just, you know, proud of how they came out and responded. I mean, in terms of life for me, it was it was tough, but at the same time, like I said, it was definitely good enough for other parts in my body to

heal up, So it was definitely good. So following up on that, the Bengals have this running back. I'm not sure if his name is Joe P. Ryan or Sam J. Mixon, but he's rushed for a thousand and ninety five yards this year. In what ways are two guys better than one? Sometimes when you have that compliment back, it keeps it keeps the other one fresh and really keeps both of

them fresh. And I think that there's definitely some it's cool sometimes to be able to have that change of pace back, whether it's a thumper or whether it's a you know, a guy that's gonna make somebody miss all the time. Like sometimes that could definitely be very beneficial to both guys. So I think that's, um, you know, pretty much the biggest thing that you really can get from that you guys your teammates at Oklahoma Matt on

a recruiting trip NFL teammates now for several years. Do you remember your first impressions of some ij when you met way back in Norman. Yeah, I mean I remember he thinks about eighteen years old, and I just remember us both at the spring game and then I'm like, man, like, I'm like, wait, who is this? And all of a sudden it was like, okay, that's the other running back.

I'm like Okay, that's what's up. But then when I see him, like Dan looked like a grown ass man right there, and you know, he just had a big ass beard and just really looked like he's somebody dad or somebody uncle. And literally, like, you know, he's been he's been my teammate ever since, and you know, I just loved having that relationship with him. And hasn't nothing changed, you know, since we've known each other literally since day one.

We're chatting with Joe Mixon. Here comes a tough question for you. In your first year together at Oklahoma, he set the NCAA single game rushing record four hundred and twenty seven yards against Kansas. Two years later, you had a game with two hundred and sixty three rushing yards and two touchdowns and one hundred fourteen receiving yards and three touchdowns. Who had the better individual performance? I mean,

I don't know, man. I mean it's it's kind of hard to penn point out which individual effort was better. I mean, at the end of the day, they were both record setting numbers. But at the same time, it's just you know, depending on what you like, it's all opinionated, you know, depending on what you like as a as a runner or do you like, you know, mix of both or receiving, Like it's just I just think it depends. But I think, you know, I'm definitely I'm a firm believer.

Like if you break a record that's never been done before or that's you know, been locked in for years, I mean, I'll give it to him. You know, having a four twenty seven like that was definitely an incredible moment for him. Like I definitely felt like that was definitely special. The correct answer was, that's a stupid question. They were both awesome performances. All Right, you face the Patriots on Saturday. That's a salty defense top ten against

the run and against the pass. Does anything or anyone jump out when you watch that defense? Mainly obviously, I mean you have to go with Matt judonh He's been a monster since he's since day when he entered the league. And I remember him in his Baltimore days and I

just remember the front that they had. It's like they got all of these all pros, like Zadarius Smith went to Green Bay, like I mean, as they had a lot of guys that really was very stout and that you know, they went separate ways and Matt Judon he went to New England and ever since he went to New England, like he was even crazy than what he was at Baltimore. So um, he's definitely number one that jumps out on the list. But they have they have

a very solid defense. Like you say, they're top ten and every individual or every stat you know with regarding the run and past. So I think that's gonna be m We got our work cut off for us for sure, but at the end of the day, they do too. So we just got to do whatever we can go out there and execute. And that's that's the number one you know thing that's going out there executing and winning

the game. That's just what it is. Last week, can tap by the temperature was in the mid sixties, probably the last time you'll play in warm weather unless you make it for the Super Bowl in Arizona. Does the running game gain importance in cold weather games late in the year, Oh yeah, for sure. I think more so because sometimes teams get up for the past. So I think most of the time that the teams that make that run and you know, to stretch down in the playoffs tend to be able to run the ball and

run it effectively. And you know, coach Kyle Lahan, he tries to make an emphasis on, you know, be very efficient in a run game. And we've I think we've been doing a great job leading up to last week. I think we've done a great job of that. And you know, just try to keep continuing to build and get better because at some point that they're gonna have to be leading on and I feel like at any moment we'll be ready for that moment for sure. Last

question for Joe Mixon. I saved some old interviews that I find interesting sometimes I can use them again and the various things that I do. I have one of you from the final game of the year a few years ago when the team is really struggling and you said the following, I promise you we ain't gonna be in this for long and that's a fact. Did you believe it or were you trying to convince yourself that that would be the case. It was a little bit

of both. And I because the thing about me, I felt like we definitely had the talent, we just have to figure out and find ways to win. And when we got a lot of them guys from winning football teams. I mean, it just made it like it turned the page. And from that point when we got them guys from winning organizations and guys that's dying to do whatever, you know, to you know, do their all to get the job done,

that's that's just it's that's that changed the tempo. And I felt like at that point when we got them high character guys and built that chemistry with each other in the locker room hunting off the field, I thought that was a game changer. Man. So when we got them guys, that turned everything around, and um, you know what I said, that's that's still true, and you know, we just got to do whatever we can to obviously

keep building. But I mean the number one ultimate goals to, you know, win that super and I feel like we were set up and we're in prime position to make that run. I'll tell everybody, we've been there and we know how to get there, and we know what it's going to take. And that's the best thing about these guys in the locker owner are willing to do whatever it takes, man. So we just got to play it out one week at a time. Every game is a

playoff game from here on. Out and you know, may all the cars fall in place and we end up there and win him. Always great to spend a few minutes with you. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, best of luck the rest of the way, Yes Sah saying to you and a family for sure. Joe needs to average about ninety three yards a game over the final three to reach one thousand yards rushing for the fourth time in his career. The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you

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not have Sam Hubbard this week. He injured his left calf last Sunday at Tampa Bay and Tom Pella Sero from the NFL Network was the first report that Sam is likely to miss a few weeks, but the Bengals are hopeful to have him back in time for the playoffs. I spoke to Tom Pelli Sero about that and much more this week. Tom. The Bengals are on a roll. They've won sixth straight, They've climbed into sole possession of

first place in the AFC North. What stands out to you when you watch the Bengals right now, Well, I think it's just the fact that once again, this team is improving as the season goes on. They went through that patch there where they're a little bit beat up a wide receiver, obviously Jamar Chase was not playing for a stretch here. But now that you're getting a lot healthier here, and you've got Joe Mixon back after you miss time with the concussion, you got chased back, and

that defense just continues to play and better. That might be the biggest thing. We know, all the weapons that the Bengals have on offense with Jason Mixon and of course Joe Burrow distributing the football, but it's what that defense that probably doesn't have a lot of names that we talk about on a regular basis on NFL Network, and one of the big names, Trey Hendrickson being out right now with a risk injury. The fact that they continue to find ways they're so good in terms of

halftime adjustments. Lu On A. Rumo deserves a ton of credit for what he's doing with that unit right now. They just look very dangerous right now in all three phases. Tom, you were the first report that Sam Hubbard is likely to miss a few weeks with the injury that he suffered to his calf on the defensive ent specifically, are those injuries starting to mount? There's no question that they're starting to mount. I mean, you take away your top

two edge rushers. That's going to impact any team. Again, I would have faith in Lou that he's going to be able to dial some things up and account for some of that. You know, the good news is it does sound like Hubbard should be back for the playoffs, and the hope is that Trey Henderson is also back. So you just got to kind of weather the storm here in the short term and hope you can get after Mac Jones coming up this weekend. You were here in training camps. You got a first hand look at

the Bengals going into the season. What was your reaction when they started owing two and had trouble protecting Joe Burrow? You always, I think when you talk about the team that played in the super Bowl the prior year. You always worry about the super Bowl hangover. There's a long history. I think people are familiar with the stats about the team that goes to the super Bowl and doesn't win and kind of what happens to them after that. But you know, again, credit to this coaching staff for being

able to turn things around. I don't think that there was any panic at any point. You know, Joe Burrows too good for one thing. Let's start there. Joe Burrows one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. He's an MVP candidate in my mind this year. You know that he's going to find a way to kind of right the ship, and he should only be getting better here for years to come. So, you know, just the fact

that they kind of found their identity. I think that anytime that you don't play and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think that they played their starters much of at all in the preseason. You know, anytime that you don't don't get those reps, there's you kind of use those first couple of games as the preseason. So the Bengals did that. They got out of that stretch and they look as dangerous as anybody right now, Tom Pellisiero from the NFL Network is our guest. Let me follow

up on Joe Burrow. You did an in depth look at the quarterback class of twenty twenty prior to that draft, and it turned out to be an excellent class with Burrow and Herbert and Tongo Vyloa and Jalen Hurts and others. An NFL coach told you back then quote, Joe Burrow is not a natural thrower and would be a high risk pick at number one. I'm not going to ask you to divulge who that NFL NFC coach was. But when you talk to people around the league now about

Joe Burrow, what do they say. Well, I think they're going back to that piece. And I did that every year, and I write the good end bad of everything that coaches and scouts say. So there were plenty of more positive quotes about Joe Burrow in that story as well. But here was the thing. Joe Burrow, going into his last year at LSU was not regarded as the number one pick. He wasn't regarded as a first dround pick.

A lot of people had him as a Day three pick and that's just because of what they evaluated in terms of the traits, and you're looking at, you know, the way that he throws the football. You're looking at the fact that the productivity was not nearly where it was before his final year with the Tigers, when he threw fifty touchdown passes and had NFL players everywhere around

him and took him to the National title Game. So there's a lot of people who, you know, we're looking at their original evaluations and thinking, Okay, are we being swayed by the fact that this guy just had this amazing season with literally NFL players started at almost every spot on that offense. And those are always the things that that teams have to judge, you know, a scouts,

you're looking for traits. When you're coaches, you're looking at the mechanics, and you're looking at how somebody throws the football. I think that you know, in that particular year, you did have some other guys who could have had a claim to being the number one pick. I mean, justin Herbert his tape, he was not nearly as productive, but he also in a terrible offense at Oregon where they you know, in big games, they just basically turned him

into a running quarterback. They didn't let him throw, and so, you know, you had people who really believed in Herbert and his ability, you know, in terms of the total package, in terms of how he's built and the height and the arm strength and all those things. And then Tua didn't check those physical boxes because he's a shorter quarterback, he's left handed. You know, he'd been injured a lot.

But people, you know, if you were running a certain style of offense, some people were really really like that tape. So I think that was as much it as anything, was the fact that you know, it was Burrow far and away in terms of physical traits the guy no. But I think the other things that you see in that story looking back was he's extremely accurate, he's an extremely fast processor. Leadership traits are off the charts. All those things can make up for what a Peyton Manning

or a Tom Brady or other guys might lack. And whether you're Peyton going number one or you're Brady going in the sixth round, you know, those guys tend to find a way to rise to the top. And Joe Burrow's doing exactly that. Tom. You're always in involved heavily with coverage of the combine and of the draft. Do you think Duke Tobin and his staff get enough credit nationally for the job they've done in building this roster. No, I don't, and I think that Duke is, you know,

obviously one of the underrated people. It's a unique set up, of course in Cincinnati, because Mike Brown is very involved, the family's very involved in personnel. But you know, Duke functions on kind of a day to day basis as a general manager type of a role. You know, they've got a it's not the biggest scouting staff. The Bengals send their coaches out as much as anybody, probably more than any team in the NFL on scouting trips to kind of fill in some of those gaps. But they've

always had a unique eye for players. They've been willing to dig in and frankly take some chances at times with players and other teams were not going to touch for a variety of reasons. But they've assembled a really, really good roster. I always think it's also, you know, there is a little bit of luck through the draft process, and that's not to attribute the way the Bengals are

built to luck. But you know the fact that you happen to have the number one pick when a job burrow comes out the fact that somehow Jamar Chase is not one of the top four picks in the draft and you're able to get them where they were. You know, those are the things that you just you never know.

I mean, there's other teams look around the league. The Vikings got Justin Jefferson at number you know, Jamar's former college teammate, at like number eighteen or something in the draft, and now if you redrafted that, you go, the guy should be one of the top picks. But that's just kind of there's the same draft. That's just kind of

how the thing goes. But in terms of, yeah, the talent that they've assembled, and I think also making some shrewd pickups in free agency, that's maybe the undersoul part. I think people always look at the Bengals as well, they don't they don't spend money in free agency and they're not going to make trades. Well, when they do spend money, they get von Bell and they get Trey

Hendrickson and they fill in those really important pieces. Or this year bringing in the offensive alignment, you mentioned that group struggled out of the gate. Well, there's five guys who've never played with each other before, so they're starting to gel. They're getting better burrows, getting a rhythm with them,

which is a big thing for quarterbacks as well. It all adds up to a team that, you know, a really tough AFC, because let's remember, you got to get through the Chiefs and you got to get through the Bills. But other teams should be looking and saying, we got to get through the Bengals too. Tom Pela Sero from the NFL Network is our guests going back to training camp. He did a lengthy interview with Brian Callahan. Do you expect Brian and lou Anna Rumo to be among the

leading candidates and the coaching cycle this offseason? I certainly think so. I think that, you know, if you're just talking macro, every team is going to have, you know, different qualities they're looking for. Everyone's gonna have different criteria. There's gonna be you know, the Sean Payton's, you know, Dan Quinn, Jim Harboff. He decides he wants to coach some of those types of unique situations. But in terms of the first time head coaches. Brian Callahan absolutely is

going to be there. You know, you look at his track record. He's been fortunate to be around a lot of really good quarterbacks, from Matthew Stafford to Peyton Manning too. Obviously now with Joe Burrow. He was with Derek Carr out in uh whe wherever they were Oakland at that time with the Raiders as well. But he's also he's a very steady personality. He's got a big role in terms of the game planning process. He interviewed with the Broncos last year. I know that they really liked him.

Obviously they went another direction, but he should be in the mix. And then Lou you know, had an interview last year with the Giants. You know, he's he's older than Callahan obviously at this point. He comes from a defensive background, which is not going to be for everyone. But if you're looking for leaders of men, people who have set a culture, Zach Taylor deserves a huge amount of credit for what's happened in Cincinnati. But you know,

lu on A. Rumo has done that too. I mean, he's been a big part of what they're building again with a bunch of guys who if you asked the average fan, even if it's a fan elsewhere in the AFC North, the name as many Bengals defensive players as you can. I don't know that you have people get very far past Jesse Bates and maybe Trey Hendrickson and then just go, I don't know who these guys are.

They've got good players. But you know the way that Louis brought that group together, the way that he varies the game plan from week to week, the way he challenges different styles of quarterbacks, you know, and again the way that he's set that culture. Those should all be positives. He's going to need a plan for what he does with the offense. About fully anticipated. We'll have that. So

last week was insane in the NFL. The Bengals rally from seventeen rally from seventeen down against Tom Brady, and that's like fifth on the list of wild things that happened. You were at the craziest game of all thirty three nothing at halftime, the Colts lead the Vikings, and Minnesota comes back to win in overtime. Describe what it was like to be in the stadium as that comeback happened.

You know, I was the sideline reporter a NFL network for that game, and you kind of go in in those situations with a bunch of stories you want to tell and the things that I was on the Viking sideline, Lindsay Zarniak was on the Colts sideline, different things you want to tell about how they game plan through the week, adjustments, They're making fun little stories some of the players have told you, and then all of a sudden, the Vikings

are just getting their doors blown offense, like, well, everything on my notepad, this is all out. I'm not gonna able to talk about any of this. Thirty three to nothing. At halftime, I go back to our green room just to eat something quickly. I'm going, I can't believe that this is this bad out of a game. Then you'd come out and it's just completely the opposite. A lot of things went wrong. You know, it doesn't a matter of the Vikings were being physically manhandled or anything. In

the first half. It was just you know, Dalvin Cook had a fumble, they had two breakdowns in the return game, gave up long returns. They obviously had to pick six in there, and they had a defensive touchdown overturned because of forward progress had been called, so you know, thirty three to nothing. Kirk Cousins told me later that Patrick Peterson told him in the locker room, you know, all we need is five touchdowns, and Kirk said, I thought he was being sarcastic. But they come out, they score

early in the second half. Then they cut it. It It was, I believe thirty six to fourteen in the third quarter, and I turned to Scotland he who was my spotter, and just said, they're gonna win this game. He's like, what I'm like, just look at the energy. You could feel it in the stadium. You could see it on the Colts players. You can see it on the Vikings sideline. Though, there was frustration and there were some players who were not happy at various points because it wasn't like they

played a perfect second half. I mean, they did give the ball, you know, had to pump the ball back a couple of times and got stopped a couple of times. But you could just see they had a path forward there, and sure enough, it gets closer and closer ends up being the greatest or the biggest comeback in NFL history. I've never seen anything like it. You know, talking to Kirk after the game and I was telling him and he was learning in real time from me. It's like

in NFL history. In NFL history, Okay, I need a second. It was a special, cool thing to be a part of, especially when you know you look around the stadium where it had been completely dead. I think the biggest cheer in the first two hours there was the Mascots versus fifth graders game that they had on the field, and

then you're watching it. I thought it might be half empty because the game was so bad, but you look up there and the whole crowd was doing the skull chant when they got it down to one score, and it is just rocking in there, and you watch the sideline and you could see it in Guy's eyes. It was just really cool to have that up close view. And I don't know that I'll ever see a game quite like that. Again. It's the Bengals and Patriots Saturday, Christmas Eve. The Bengals try to stay on the hunt

for the number one playoff seed in the AFC. What are a couple of keys to the matchup this Saturday in Foxborough. Well, in my mind, it's just don't let Romandra Stevenson get going. We've seen that he's the he's the guy who can make things happen in that Patriots offense. There's obviously a lot of frustration right now in the passing game. They rely heavily on the you know, the quick game and you know short passes and Mac Jones if you're an amateur lip readers expressed from frustration about

that at times. But they're not a team that's going to threaten you a whole bunch vertically. So I would I would anticipate and lose a lot smarter than I am, but I would anticipate you're loading up and just making sure don't let the run game beat you, let Mac Jones try to beat you going over the top. And then on the flip side of that, this is a really, really good Patriots defense. I don't know, I haven't looked at the rankings for Week fifteen, but they're one of

the top ranked defenses in the NFL. You're just gonna need to let your best players be the best players. Bill Belichick. Always in every game plan, it always starts with how do we keep their best player from being the one who beats us? Mate, we're gonna make you win left handed. Well. Luckily for the Bengals, they've got so many different playmakers, you know, not just Mar Chase, Pete Higgins and Tyler Boyd and I don't know if kaiden Hurst's back or not, but Joe Mixon. There's a

lot of different things that they can do. So it's going to be one of those games where you use the cliche, you know, take what the defense gives you. I would anticipate, you know, between Zach and Brian Callahan, they're going to be looking at this. How are the Bengals going to play us? I would think they're gonna play to not let Jamar Chase beat you. Maybe it's a big Joe Mixon bay. We'll see how it plays out coming up this weekend. Tom. I know your schedule

is crazy. I really appreciate you doing this. Happy holidays and thanks for the time you gotta thank you. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by Kettering Health, the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. With more than one hundred twenty care facilities and fifteen hundred care providers, Kettering Health is committed to guiding you to your best health. Visit Kettering health dot org to learn more. Last week, the Bengals beat Brady. This week they'll try to eat Belichick.

Bill's all time record against Cincinnati is sixteen and four, and believe it or not, his record against the Bengals his identical. At his two coaching stops, he was eight and two as the head coach of the Browns, and he's eight and two his head coach of the Patriots. But this year's team, for lack of a better term, does not look belichick Ian. The Patriots have made an unusually high number of mistakes, culminating with the final play

of last week's game at Las Vegas. Now at a third and ten three seconds left, Jones will give it to Steven Sandy started rod. He runs it up the middle, hit by Chandler Jones, slips and head across the forty five for the stiff arm off a tackle on the forty. He lost the football and Jacoby Byers picks it up. He circles back and he throws it across the field trickle, Oh my god, just picked up by Chanler Jones. He breaks away to the thirty, He runs to the twenty. He runs to the ten he one to the end

zone three touchdowns raters tonight. This might be one of the dumbest teams I've ever seen. And of victory for Las Vegas. That outstanding play by play call on the Patriots Radio network was courtesy of my longtime friend Bob Socy. We are both former announcers for the Patucket Red Sox Minor League baseball team, and I caught up with Bob this week in our know the faux segment, Bob. Last week's loss was obviously an all timer. I'm sure fans and media have been playing the blame game ever since.

Who has been the primary target of their ire Well, you know, Dan, you might think it would be the two players who lateral on the last possession, Ramadre Stevenson and Jacobe Myers. But I think and it's not just that particular game that's led to I think the criticism for the coaching staff and in particular head coach Bill Belichick.

But I think it's you know all, it's something that dates back to the summer and the decision after Josh McDaniels was hired to be the head coach of the Las Vegas Raiders, replacing the offensive staff essentially with Matt Patricia and Joe Judge, a former defensive coordinator and special teams coordinator for the Patriots, of course, both of whom

were back in New England. Has failed head coaches and it has been topic a from spring through summer and now as we approach winter, and last week's game was really one that I think pointed out not only you know, the problems of Patriots have faced as a team of late, but really all year long in terms of coaching situational football, the kind of procedural mistakes they've made, the mental errors that are uncharacteristic of what we have become accustomed to

with Bill Belichick. So, you know, to try to make sense of something that's almost inexplicable, people say, you know, it falls on the head coach, and that's where the criticism has and directed, and it has been swelling, and it's been consistent of late, especially as you know, as harsh as the Boston media can be on sports radio here locally, help us understand why Bill Belichick would choose Matt Patricia and Joe Judge to run the offense, considering

their backgrounds were not on the offensive side of the ball. You know, it goes back I think to Bill's days in Cleveland. When you look back at his early career with the Browns, he had a similar offensive coordination by committee elliott I believe it was Gary Tranquil who was the offensive coinator entitled, but it was really a buy committee approach to calling plays and Bill had a strong had him, had a strong voice in making the play calls. And it was a system that for you know, for

all intensive purposes failed. It was an offense that was really one of the worst in the league. And over the course of time, as Bill hired Charlie Wise and Josh McDaniel's. Bill O'Brien of course, was here in between McDaniel's two stints, the offense was kind of its own entity, and it had developed under McDaniels to become his offense

and Tom Brady's offense. And I think Bill looked at things in a couple of different ways what he wanted to streamline what was a very complicated system for newcomers to pick up rookies, veteran free agents, trade acquisitions. It's been well known, well established, in no better example than Chadojo Sinko, for example, the former Bengal who came to New England and never really adapted to the Patriot offensive scheme.

It's been an offense that was very complex and very difficult to adjust to for a lot of players, again, whether novices in the NFL or veterans. So Bill wanted to condense things. He wanted to streamline it, make it more simplified. And then on the other hand, he'd been losing this succession of young offensive minds to other jobs.

You know, you look at the Patriots coaching staff in recent years, I mean as recently as the last Super Bowl champion in two and eighteen, and then compare it to today or even if you want to take this step or two further back in time, he had Brian Dable on the same staff as Josh McDaniels on the two thousand and sixteen Patriots that won Super Bowl fifty one, and now Dabile of course, after a great stint in Buffalo as the head coach of the New York Giants.

So there's some thought that Bill wanted to kind of guard against, you know, that next young offensive bright mind moving on. It maintained some continuity in that he's got these long time lieutenants, guys that are very loyal to him on the staff calling offense. But of course, at the same time, you know, there's this disconnect, and you know, for a lot of people, it's a mind boggling, you know, situation,

and it's been that way since day one. So, you know, I think that Bill also believes that a good football coach is a good football coach, and Bill has had a strong say. You could see it in the goal line situation last week we're leading the game against Las Vegas. Bill still has a say. Now the offense is run, and we've seen him more involved with the offense going back to training camp this year compared to years past when he would be more involved on the defensive side.

During training camp. We're chatting in the voice of the Patriots Bob soci mac Jones had a tremendous rookie year. He took the Patriots to the playoffs. He led him to ten wins, he earned a Pro Bowl nod. It obviously has not gone as well this year. What have been his biggest issues, you know, Dan, I think it starts with what we're talking about with regards to the Patriots staff. A lack of trust dissonance from the start.

There had been frankly, you know, especially in New England circles, and kind of shocking statements sometimes veiled references to the offense or the lack of input from the quarterback and the players back in the summer, and it's continued during the course of the season. You've seen his frustrations, his body language the last few weeks as you've watched the Patriots even casually let h one closely, and it's been

a bad situation. He has regressed, and I think what's transpired is that, you know, early on, a lot of Mac's strengths were diminished, his his capacity to process his intelligence because with the simplified system, a lot was taken out of his hands, and rather than advancing progressing the offense, they kind of scaled it back. They were a conservative last year under McDaniels. They really took him along slowly.

But then as the season got started this year and rather than going forward and building on that, they went backwards in his sentence, and then he started to play poorly and turned the ball over a lot. They also, at the same time, while they wanted to simplify and you reduce the playbook. They wanted to have more of a downfield threat, and they wanted more production on deep throws.

And so, you know, an offense that had long been predicated on taking what the defense gave them, you know, death by a million paper cuts, danking doink in the middle of the field between the hash marks, did Julian Edelman,

West Welker, etc. Now they throwing the ball downfield. For those fifty fifty balls to Davante Parker and what he said going to be eighty twenty balls in his favor have been more like twenty eighty if that, and you know, tilting towards the defense, and that I think just started a spiral effect. Max mechanics got out of whack mind games. He gets hurt against the Ravens, even playing well in that game, and then turn the ball over several times later.

He gets hit on the final pass attempt of the game for the Patriots class Campbell comes down on his legs high ankle sprain. There's a lot of back and forth behind the scenes between difference of opinion his camp, so to speak, and the coaches with the Patriots wanted as an organization comes back starts against the Bears, it's awful. Bailey.

Zappy had started for the Patriots one back to back games, one road, one home, and Mac Jones takes the field against the Bears, struggle, stows an interception, and he exits to fans chanting Zap Zappy, And it's just it's they've never been able to get on the same page. They've never been able to kind of regroup in his and collect themselves and move forward. Since Zappy played well in those two games, is there much talk about let's give Mac a break, puts Bailey back in there and let

him reset, anything along those lines. Oh, yeah, there's there. There is quite a bit. I think it's interesting in the consensus on Mac Jones as the future of the Patriots. I think last year there were some detractors, but overall, I think the consensus was a whole promising quarterback. This could be your franchise quarterback. Someone would go so far as stay quarterback for the next ten years or cbs, as Charles Davis say that on a telecast early this season.

And after the offense struggles, Smack turns the ball over and Zappy comes in and in an even more simplified attack, frankly against two beat up defenses at the time, and the lines were the worst defense. But they were also down several players in their secondary. And they go to Cleveland and the Browns were without Denzel Warden, jadeveon Cloudy and Zappy plays well. Taking nothing away from him. There's

an innocence about him. Kid who played at a small school, Houston Baptist and then one year at Western Kentucky, wide eyed, big smile, you know, shorter than your average NFL quarterback, and he comes in and he plays great. After this kid from Alabama who in the offseason started to make a lot more appearances and started showing up on your television a lot more. And you know, you go back

to the discord that was evident in the summer. People started to sour on Mac frankly, particularly in the media here and in Boston. Once the conversation starts, particularly between the hours of two and six at the least station in town, you know, everybody takes their keys from that. And so when Zappy comes in, he plays well. Then Mac comes comes back from his injury, you know, turns it over against the Bears. You know, the chance get louder. I think Belichick a couple of weeks later kind of

quieted the talk. Mac played better, the Patriots won some games, but now there's I think a lot more conjecture again, end should they turn to Zappi? I think people have watched Max's demonstrative nature on the field, and we're as I think there was a sympathetic audience for him Dan frankly, because people recognize, you know, the false in the whole approach, the whole operation of the offense. Now they're saying, and I'm kind of subscribe to this as well. Look, you

got to go out and play and enough. You can't show up your coaches, You can't constantly gesticulate on the field. The way he has been of late has become more noticeable. Certainly the cameras around him all the time. We're chatting with the voice of the Patriots, Bob Socie. I'll admit I didn't know that much about second year running back. Remind Gray Stevenson. He's closing in a thousand yards, he leads to Patriots and catches with sixty. How good is Stevenson.

He's very good. Yeah, he's very good. It's the first time I think that the Patriots have really had a featured back since the former Bengal Corey Dillon, where you could say this is their bell cow, this is the guy is going to be out there for the bulk of the staffs, And it wasn't designed that way, it wasn't planned that way. Damian Harris has been beat up.

He was their leading rusher from a year ago where Guy's had twenty career touchdowns, fifteen of them last season to tie a franchise record, a second in the league.

But Harris banged up. Stevenson more of a presence. Also, James White retired after a hip injury last year, tried to come back, retired before the season started, and so Stevenson not only winds up being your primary ball carry and almost exclusive ball carry because behind him and Harris you had two rookies, one of whom from the FCS level who weren't ready, the other of whom had a fumbling issue in the preseason, so they didn't trust him.

He was on the practice squad. So Romantis not only carrying the ball most of the time, now he becomes your top running back option in the passing game. And as you might have heard, advanced Joseph the defensive coordinator for the Arizona car And I'll say last week, the offense has called a lot like a defensive coach would call it a lot of screen passes. And against his Cardinals, the Patriots called a dozen screens. So that's involved sequence

in a lot in the passing game. He's a terrific player. Great fine for them, I think in the draft. I won't say that he's going to be the best Oklahoma running back on the field on Saturday, but I think it's going to be a lot closer than most people would have ever expected. So the offense has struggled. The defense is excellent. Top ten against the pass, top ten against the run, seventh and fewest points allowed. Let's start up front, Matthew, Judeon and josh Oocha. Is that as

good as any pass rushing duo in the NFL? Well, statistically, you know, they were the first two pass rushers to reach double figures in sacks on the same team, and which is really come on of late. Now there's a qualifier, Dan, A lot of the defense is statistics. Frankly were inflated against Frankly bad quarterback play Sam Ellinger. For example, for the Colts, Zach Wilson for the Jets before they turn things over to Mike White. So in context, I think

people have to keep that in mind. Judon went quiet late last year. He had twelve and a half sacks Pro Bowl season, no production in the last four games, and he didn't show up on the stat sheet fifty plus snaps against the Raiders. So it's gonna be interesting to see how he plays this week against a much better offensive line, a far better offense, frankly, and they're going to need him to stay at a chance, I think in this game against the Bengals. Lucha is a

terrific athlete and explosive player. He was utilized by Don Brown as the defensive coordinator in Michigan. That's strictly a pass rusher, situational guy. Came into the NFL and the Patriots his first year played him off the ball. Didn't have a chance where they just to put his hand down and rush the quarterback. That's not what a Patriots defensive end typically does. You've got to be able to

do all the facets of their defensive scheme. Set the edge play against the run, cover in the flat, drop in coverage, and he struggled with that and then he got hurt in a second year. This season, he's been healthy. Like I said, I think that atheticism has showed up of late, and they've been helped out too, frankly by Devon Godchaw. It's been good for them. As a defensive tackle, teams have definitely made an effort to double team him.

Christian Barmore just came back from a prolonged absence because of injury. I think he's a very promising, young explosive player as well. Year after year, it seems to me the Patriots lose good cornerbacks and safeties to free agency but remain great in the secondary. Is that true? And if so, why, well? I think they're good. Yeah, certainly.

Jonathan Jones has been a good cornerback this year, and I think a lot of it, Dan Frankly, is schematics what they do sometimes to confuse quarterbacks with their coverages, and you know, the marriage of their fronts and coverage is now. I think the secondary has been a lot better than people anticipated. At the cornerback position, Jalen Mills has been hurt and that's been costly for them. I think these last couple of weeks dealing with a Gwen injury.

Jack Jones is a cornerback that they took a guy with some red flags coming out of college who was a USC first then in Arizona State. The Patriots got him as a mid round pick and he's gotten off to a good start. He missed last week's game because of anee injury. Marcus Jones, who is one of the most dynamic players that I've seen in a Patriots uniform in my ten years in terms of his overall athletic ability. He's a triple threat. We've seen him return up punk

to win a game against the Jets. We have seen him on offense against the Bills take a pass forty eight yards with his first NFL NFL his first pro touch for a score. And then defensively the last couple of weeks, he's played very very well against some very very good receivers, including Davante Adams and the Raiders. Very good at the safety position, that's the deepest position, in the most experienced position. I think Kyle Dugger as a young player that you know, there's a lot to like about.

He's a foundation piece for them. Maybe not as good in coverage as some of the other contemporaries around the league that he has, but in terms of physicality and just a knack for making plays, and he's really had a good season for them. And then there's Devin mcquartery of quarterbacks at all, and I think that's a big key that easily gets overlooked because he doesn't show up as much on the stat sheet as well, even though

he's got thirty plus interceptions over his long career. But he's a guy that directs things and I think keeps everybody on the same page. Back there final thing for Bob Socie. I think a lot of us are wondering how the Patriots are going to bounce back. If they're going to bounce back from what happened last week. It seems like it could go one of two ways. Either you spiral after a loss of that nature and that magnitude, or you rally. You're embarrassed, you're still in the playoff hunt,

you come back strong. Do you have a feeling for what the Patriots are going to look like on Sunday or Saturday? I should say, yeah, Dan, you know I don't have a feeling. I have a fear. I would say a concern about how this team is going to bounce back. You know, it's funny. I found the infamy of, as I understand it, calling the two walk off plays in NFL history that involved multiple multiple laterals to win

or lose the game. One was in Miami in twenty eighteen, and the hook and lateral play by the Dolphins to beat the Patriots in Miami, and then of course last week's play. Well, the twenty eighteen team was led by Tom Brady and a number of other veteran players, and they bounced back, and they won the Super Bowl with Rob Grunkowski and Julian Edelman and a very very good defense led by Stefan Gilmour, as you know, one of the top defensive players in the league at that time,

a year before he became Defensive Player of the Year. Well, they shut down the Rams, they win the Super Bowl. They bounced back very nicely. This team, it's not the same old Patriots. You got a lot of new guys on this team. As I alluded to or even you know, described directly a bit earlier than conversation, there's been a lot of grousing. There's been some disconnect and you know,

some would say dissension. I mean, you had offensive players opening questioning the openly questioning the coaching staff after the Bills game a couple of weeks ago, So that doesn't pourt ten very well for a strong rebound for the Patriots. They have three games left, all against very good teams,

Miami at home and then Buffalo. Their playoff chances are still alive, but it's it's between slim and none, let's face it, you know, for them to win all three of those games and really stand a legitimate chance of doing anything in the postseason. So you know, it's a game they have to have. I think there's so many questions about them going into the offseason, and these next three weeks are going to determine whether, you know, the questions increase, or some of them are answered, or the

you know, the chorus gets louder. Here. That distinction of calling the two game ending plays featuring multi laterals is an interesting one, and you called them both great, as I told you in a text that can't imagine somebody calling last week's finish any better than you did, So kudos on that, and I am looking forward to our Patucket Red Sox reunion on Saturday in Foxborough, Oh I really appreciate that because you call everything great as well. Dan,

thanks so much. That's going to do it. For this episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, presented by Kettering Health, the official healthcare provider of the Bengals, by Bengals Picks and Ultimate Bengals, they're free to play with tickets and signed merchandise up for grabs by paycre, the official HR software provider of the Bengals, and by Alta Fiber future

Proof Fiber Internet elevate your connection with Alta Fiber. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast