Bengals Booth Podcast: ABC

Sam's title is Football Data Analyst, meaning he's the guy who crunches the numbers and advises Zach on when to go for it on fourth down, when to try for a two point conversion, when to start calling timeouts, late and a half, etc. I'll talk to Sam about his path to Cincinnati and how he does his job during

a game. Then I'll spend a few minutes with the goat Anthony Munio's and get his thoughts on the Bengals offensive line improvements and find out what advice he has for the players the year after going to the Super Bowl. The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and Google Play.

If here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Jungle to the Hall two. This Saturday, June twenty fifth, Bengals super fan Jim Foster is organizing an event with a worthy purpose to try to get more Bengals in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, deserving candidates like Ken Anderson, Ken Riley, and Willie Anderson to

name a few. The first Jungle to the Hall event took place last year in Canton, and this year it's being held at the in Between Bar in downtown Cincinnati. I'll be there along with my broadcast partner Dave Lapham, and Willie Anderson will be there too. Tickets are limited and going quickly, so if you're interested act now. You can get all of the details by finding Bengal Jim on social media or by searching for Jungle to the

Hall two. Now, let's get to my first guest. Last year, the Bengals ranked in the top five in the NFL from most points scored in the final two minutes of the first half. They were in the top five and fourth down conversion percentage, and they won five games on walk off field goals, indicating skillful clock management in those situations. Sam Francis deserves some of the credit. As the Bengals football data analyst. He advises Zach Taylor on situations like

those during games. I spoke to him this week about his job and how he landed it. Sam, let's start with your background. You attended Bates College in Maine, where you had a double major in math and economics. It feels like you should be managing a hedge fund. How did you wind up working in professional sports? So when I was graduating, I thought I was going to take a normal job in Boston, like a bunch of people

sort of had a couple lined up. Spoke to one of the fathers on the lacrosse team that I was playing for, and I kind of explained to him what I was thinking about doing, and he sensed little enthusiasm in my voice. So he knew a guy who worked for the Bills put me in contact with him, interviewed for an internship up there, ended up getting it. That was a right win. Sean McDermott was coming in and Rex Ryan was going out, so it was a little bit of a similar transition to what was going on

in Cincinnati at the time. Worked for them for four or five months, and then got a job with the Craft Analytics Group, which is based in Foxboro, sort of under the Craft umbrella for the Patriots, but it's on the business side of analytics. And then the Bengals job came open, and in twenty nineteen, when Zach was starting, I threw my name in the ring and ended up in Cincinnati. Did you read Moneyball or Scorecasting or other books about sports analytics and developed an interest in it

a little bit? Yeah, it was. It was It always seemed like a pipe three while I was in college, Like you think about how a few few of these jobs there are. Um, I definitely saw a Moneyball. I read it when I was I was younger. Um, but that it's just I don't know, it's you always expect your want to be able to connect your your passions for math and and analytics and stuff like that with with your passion for sports, but there's just so many people,

so few people will get the opportunity to do it. Um. It's It's definitely something I wanted to do, but I don't know's it's always you're always hoping for it, but you never know if it's actually gonna come, and I'm happy happy it did. As you mentioned, you came aboard with the Bengals in Zach Taylor's first year as head coach. Did you have specific marching orders or did you kind of develop the Bengals analytics side of things on your own.

There's some ideas that they had in place, things that were that were asked of people from the prior staff. That was sort of why they created the position. It was, Hey, we need to find the skill set to to fit what we're being at to do that we don't really have that skill set in building. So from the coaching side, I kind of worked with them to sort of build it up and make sure that we had systems in

place that fit what we needed to do. Right. This thing is so young around the NFL that you probably look at all thirty two people around the league with my title and they probably do thirty two different things. So what we try and focus on is what works for us and solves the problems that we have. The one person who who I always try and give a shout out to who who doesn't get outside. As Tyler

grows who's upstairs. So he was building out the scouting system and he's our web developer up there, and he's phenomenal at his job, and he builds that out upstairs and working with the scouts for I think I'm going into my fourth season. I believe this will be his fifth season, if not a little longer. And he does a great job up there. So from a scouting side, work with him a bunch to add what I can add to the system that he's already built out for

them upstairs. Sam Francis is our guest. They did a little Internet research, and I'm fairly certain I saw your father played lacrosse. He was an All American at Cornell. He played in the nineteen eighty seven Final four, which I covered because Cornell faced Syracuse and beat Syracuse in the semifinals. How did his athletic success in background influence you? So he coached me in my whole life from when

I was young. I picked up a lacrosse stick, probably when I was three or four, throwing the ball around in the backyard with him and my brothers. So he coached me my entire life, all through all through high school. He was my high school acrosse coach. He started the high school across program in New Report God two thousand and eight ish somewhere around there, maybe earlier than that,

and he was a great, great influence. I mean, never missed a game while I was in college, was at every football game at the majority of my lacrosse game. So it's kind of that a little bit of a coaching background that I have. Him and my grandfather was

the athletic director and coached out in Williston. And it's probably a sub anxiously what drew me to to a position like this Since your dad was an ivy league athlete, did you discuss strategy and xs and ohs growing up or just play like a normal kid would play a little bit of both. I mean, you always want us to go out there and have fun. That sort of his philosophy to lacrosse is it's a free flowing, creative sport.

That's it's built under some structure, but it is at a certain point it's up to the players to go out there and execute. You can't can't just have set plays every time. It's a little bit like basketball in that sense. Um, But there's I mean, it was always my coach there's always a little bit talk of strategy and how we were going to play and things of that nature, and who we're playing and how how the matchups fit. So you're a linebackerround the football team at

Bates and obviously played lacrosse as well. Do those experiences have a big impact on you now? Definitely? It's I think what this position fills for me that uh, you don't really get in some other jobs. Is that that sense of competitiveness, right, It's you You prepare all offseason, you prepare all week, and you went out and tested on Sunday, and it's measurable you win or you lose.

I think that's something that I've always enjoyed, is the preparation and then you get to go actually see the results of that preparation and how it pays off on the field on Sunday. So let's get into the nitty gritty of your job a little bit. On game day? Where are you and what do you have in front of you? So I'm in the booth with all the other coaches talking to Zach and the other coordinators and everyone up there, and I've got all sorts of charts and stuff in front of me. What I always try

to mention is that the charts. It's nice to chart everything out, but some of these decisions have to be made in three, four or five seconds, so you don't always have time to reference them. So it's really building it into your brain and making its second nature during the process of making the chart, and then during game day it's you don't always have time to reference that. So it's nice to have, but it's a little bit of comfort paper. At a certain point, can you have

a computer or a tablet in front of you or no? Now, the only sort of technology you can have is those surface tablets that have the play or play pictures on them, same ones that they have on the sideline we have up in the booth. But other than that, no computers, iPads, nothing like that. Sam Francis is our guest. Do you wait until Zach asks for your input or do you weigh in on a headset when you feel it's appropriate.

Whenever it's appropriate. You're trying to anticipate everything that's coming up. Some of these situations sort of jump up on you and there is really no time to santicipate. You got to just recognize it off the top of your head and process what way you're going to suggest and be able to communicate that very quickly. There are certain ones like the fourth down one, which gets a lot of publicity.

That's obviously something you can't anticipate because you know the downs are coming you you sort of give them the heads up and first and second down and just try and find time where there's dead air on the headset to sort of slip in your message. And Zach's not always going to respond, but he hears it, and then he'll always always ask questions if he hasn't. How about during timeouts, timeouts, TV, timeouts, challenges, those are those are

always a good time to do. You have time to think, process and there's always a little bit of open air where you have more than five seconds to communicate something. This is a young coaching staff. Do you think that's a factor in being open minded about your input? I think so. I think it helps um, But there's there's people around the whole staff who don't necessarily fit that that that young description, who are open to it as well.

I mean Mark Duffner's office, not not to call you old Duff, but using his offices right next to mine, and I do a bunch of work with him, UM throughout the season, throughout the office, in really year round. So it's it is. I think generally it does help, but I do think that that there are people young and old who are open minds to this. So we think of decisions like when to go for it on fourth down, going for a two point conversion is pretty

obvious things where you might be involved. But what are other in game decisions that you might weigh in on to help with with with challenges, UM, sort of timing and aggressiveness at the end of the half, just anything that really is about managing the game and less about specific schemes and play calls and things of that nature.

UM just sort of while Zach's calling the plays, give him an overview of here's sort of the situation in the game, Here's here's what it looks like going forward, here are some things that could come up, and trying to anticipate, trying to sort of be able to anticipate and give an idea of what's coming, what could be coming down the pipe. While he's focused specifically on, hey, here's the first and second down play calls. Here's we're third in this third and that here's here's what we're

going to want to call. Trying to take some of that off his plays that that he can he can focus on play calling as much as he can. So the Bengals were exceptional last year in the so called middle eight last four minutes of the first half, first four minutes of the second half. Do you consider that to be a key stat and was that a big point of pride last year? We've taken a lot of pride in that every season we've been here so far. Last season sort of a lot of it paid off

and we were super successful doing it. But it's something that we always focus on. It's the goal at the end of the half for most teams, or really for all teams, is you want to score as the clock ends as little time as possible want it so the other team can't drive back down. And the only way to gain an extra possession of football is to also get the ball at the start of the second half, So you want to score with zeros on the clock, get the ball back and score again. There's it's proven

that that that really has an impact on winning. The less time that they have the ball in their hands, it sort of ends up being sometimes close to an hour in real time without the other offense having the ball, and you get it twice in that time, and if you can put fourteen points on the board, that's a

big toys winning. We're chatting at Sam Francis, the Bengals data analyst, what do you do in the off season, so it'll start right when the season ends, sort of help the coaches put the past season to bed, whatever reports and stuff they need there they need, sort of turns to a scouting focus from there, help help do can his staff as much as you possibly can with getting ready for the free agency and the draft. And

they've by that point. It's sort of the tenth eleventh dollar at that point, so so they've got a lot of stuff. You're trying to just add as much value you can working with Tyler Gross, like I mentioned earlier, and then as soon as that ends, it's getting getting

everything we're going to need ready for the season. It's all the projects and pain points that we felt that we didn't have time to accomplish during the season, making sure we've ironed those out and have processes and whatever it may be ready to solve those problems in season, and then working with the new coaches who were on board, and so, what are you guys going to need, What did you have in the past, what are you going

to need access to? How can I help you? And just get them familiar with what we already have in place, but also pick their brain on what they've done in the past and what we can do to help us here. Do coaches or front office personnel give you projects? Yeah, for sure, I think coachings. Obviously, it's two different types

of work. The scouting is more of a long term project, right, so there are some solutions that work for coaching that don't work for that just because the form of information I give you, If it's sort of a short term fix, this is going to get lost in the whole year long process of scouting. Whereas coaching, it's you're asking me a question on Monday, You're using that to put it in the game plan on Tuesday, it's installed on Wednesday, and a couple of weeks later you may want to

reference that, but rarely you do. It's sort of a new game plan each week. So it's two different types of questions and information. Once more long term, one short term, but definitely definitely get projects from both sides. So when I was in college watching sporting events with my broadcasting want to be fellow students, kids that were not prospective broadcasters used to hate it because we'd be picking apart the announcers the whole time. We couldn't just watch the

game for the game's sake. Do you watch all sporting events with analytics in mind? Yeah, I think it's it's that's part of my job as I watch all the situations in the league or situations from around the league each week, so I'm already watching those with with that eye. And then if it's whatever, if it's Monday night football or Thursday night football and I'm not in the office,

I do end up watching it that way. And then it hasn't fled a little bit into other sports where watching the Celtics in this past this past playoff run that they had and the little trick they did where I think there was three minutes twenty seconds or so left and they scored and the ball rolls out of bounds and they let the clock take before they picked it up a toss to the ref. They about twenty seconds bleed off before they passed it in because they

think they're abut ten or so at that point. Yeah, there are little clock tricks in every sport that that maybe I'm not aware of. So there was a playoff game several years ago where the Patriots used an ineligible receiver to confuse the Ravens and it led to a rule change in the offseason the next year. And then more recently, in another playoff game, the Titans took a few minutes off the clock late in the game by having intentional penalties that was against the Patriots before they punted,

and that led to a rule change. Without giving away any secrets, are there still loopholes in the rules that you dream of exploiting in the right situation. Yeah, there's there's a few. Um they've gotten. They've done a very good job of sort of closing the big ones, but there's a few that we've recognized, and there very unique, niche situations that probably will never come up. That's one thing I learned early on working with Dan Pitcher that I did in the first year is how you got

to prepare for everything. And some of this stuff is probably never going to come up, but you've got to treat it as if it is. You've got to take it seriously, and you've got to have a plan for if because because the worst thing is if it comes up and you recognize if it aren't prepared to sort of take advantage of it or to handle that situation. So that's that's one of my jobs is to know the rule book inside and out and be able to advise act when those sorts of things come up. But

there's there. They've done a really good job of making sure that there aren't those those little loopholes in the rule book like you mentioned. How does a data analyst deal with luck? I think that's football. I think that's what makes football as successful of business as it is. That's why it has the popularity. It's it's not predictable. Um it's Baseball is probably the most predictable and that's

the example. But that's what makes football. Football makes football great is on any given Sunday, you don't know who's going to win, right, and it is predictable to a sense. That sort of my job is to try and make it as predictable as possible and be able to predict certain things that are going to come up. But that's that's why people love football. Is on any given Sunday, any team can come out on top. So I hear from a lot of aspiring young sportscasters who would like

to get into broadcasting. I imagine a lot of young people would like to do what you're doing right now. What advice do you give them? Find a way gain experience. That's what I always tell them. There's battle thirty two of these jobs, but there's I mean there's more than that, because obviously teams have multiple people in certain positions, but

there's very few of these jobs. And what people are always looking for in a job is you have to have experience, right, and that's a tough thing to get for this job because there's only so many sports teams that you can go work for that have these positions. So I always tell them, you're always going to lead with Hey, I want to, like I mentioned earlier, connect my passions for math and analytics with my passion for sports. That's awesome. That's that's great, Like, you can't do this

job without that. But I always look for the follow up of So I did whatever right. I did this project on my own time. It was my thesis or for this class, whatever it may be. I took this internship. One of the big ones now is Michael Lopez, who's the director of Analytics with the NFL, is actually a

Bates grad as well. So he runs every year this competition called the Big Data Bowl, and it's open or He takes actual NFL data to the next gen stats data I think this past year at PFF Data as well, and he provides it publicly to anyone who wants to enter the competition. You get to work with real NFL data and solve problems brainstormed by real NFL people, coaches, scouts, etc. And you get to submit a project. It's part of

the competition, and there's judges. I believe a couple of years ago the new GM of the Vikings, Questia Dopelmenta, was a judge in it. So there are real NFL people looking at this, and to me, that's probably the greatest way to gain experiences is to solve actual NFL problems with actual NFL data and have them judge by actual NFL people. I don't think it gets much better than that. So that's I always point people in that detection of if you're looking to do this, you've got

to sort of take initiative to gain experience. It's not an easy thing, but here's sort of a competition and a resource that's out there for you to do. So. Did you write a football related thesis, Abates did. I wrote about, uh, like salary cap inefficiency and sort of how intra team wage disparity effects winning in the NFL. Looking back on it, I would probably do the entire thing differently. Um, sort of, that's I mean, that's that's

gaining experience, that's learning from learning from your experiences. I feel the same way about the stuff I did in Buffalo. It's you learn, you learn new processes, you learn new strategies and different analytical tactics, and you sort of apply those as you go on. And then two three years everything moved so fast that you look back and you're like, I can't believe that that's that's the that's the strategy that I took, and that's how I decided to do it.

But um, yeah, it's I did, and it was It was a good, good learning experience for me and wasn't as intentional as I try and tell people to be about gaining experience. But looking back on it, it was one of the things that I was able to talk about at least tep people in interviews that Hey, I did this, and this is sort of why I know this is. This is an initiative I took to sort of propel me to this type of career final thing for Sam France, how many of the players do you think,

no and understand what you do? There's a few, there's a few. I'm sort of that guy who's that who's around. My office is right on the catwalk that overlooks the weight room, so they probably all see me. I interact with some of them sometimes and I don't explain to them what I do, but I think some of them are aware, just through asking questions to the coaches and whatnot. But yeah, my office is my doors open. If anyone want to come and discuss it, I'll give them a

full rundown of it. Sam, this has been fun. I appreciate your time and look forward to seeing you at to training camp. Yeah. Thanks, Dan, I appreciate you. Sam mentioned the NFL's annual Big Data Bowl competition, where contestants can win cash prizes based on their football research, and you can find a bunch of those projects online. For example, one of the finalists this year was titled Punt Returns Using the Math to find the path sounds like it's

right up, Darren Simmons Alley. If you want to check out some of the research, just search for Big Data Bowl. Before I get to my next guest, here's an invitation to grab your yoga mat and join HUDE on Saturday, June twenty fifth at nine am for Namas Day Yoga on the field at Paul Brown Stadium. Register now at Bengals dot com slash Yoga. It's presented by Cott Nell

in partnership with Kroger and Title Babe Period Bank. Anthony Munio's has been a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame since being enshrined in nineteen ninety eight, his first year of eligibility. But now he's also working for the Hall in a new position called the Chief Football Relationship Officer. He'll help promote the Hall of Fame, engage with prospective business partners, and be involved in philanthropic efforts. The Hall of Fame could not have made a better choice.

I caught up with Anthony this week at a golf event featuring the Cincinnati chapter of the NFL Alumni Association. Anthony the Bengals had an obvious weakness to address in the offseason, and they did by signing three veteran established offensive lineman. What was your reaction, Well, I think I go back to I forget what press conference it was when Zach said, just believe in our process, you know, because I mean the first two years quite frankly, but

you could see things turn into culture and stuff. So that's what I continue to be impressed with is there was that glaring weakness and man, they didn't waste any time. And I was really happy and impressed that they went after you know, Kappa and Harris and Collins right away and fill that need because you know, so many times teams go to the draft. Now you bring it in

young guys that have to step in. Well, now you got some guys at a couple of Super Bowl rings and you know, another guy that played for a pretty good football team with the Cowboys. So with that being said, I'm excited about what's going on. I mean not only that, but then you lose Uzama, they go ahead and get hurt. I mean, so it's like, Okay, we lose somebody, let's get it. We have weakness. So I really like what's going on. Have you looked at those three offensive lineman

closely over the years. Do you have any thoughts on any of the three? I really haven't. I haven't watched them a whole lot. But I guess anytime you come to another team and you started on a super Bowl team and you got a ring, you gotta be pretty good. And you're playing with, I guess, a pretty good quarterback, and so you're protecting, you know, one of the best ever. And then Collins a little concern there, you know, on

what happened. But you know, talking to Frank Pollock, who is there and coached him, he says, pretty good talent. I guess, maybe a couple injuries in the past and a couple ofs but hopefully, you know, he comes in and stays healthy and and really plays up to where he says he can. So not Pollock, but Collins says he can. So No, I really haven't watched any of the three at all, so I'm looking forward to watching them.

Left guard is open. It sounds like the top two candidates going into training campbell by Jackson Carmen and the guy they drafted this year, Cordell Volson. Are you confident that a player will emerge at left guard that will be able to a solid job. Well, I hope. So you know, uh Jackson, I mean you look at him and you watch him. I've watched him since you know,

high school days in college. He has the ability. I think the main thing is just understanding what he has to do and you know, stepping you know, stepping up. I mean this, uh, this young man they drafted him, and everything I hear about him, he's he's got the mentality and the you know what you love to to see in an offensive linement. So what I love about that is you bring in a guy like that. You've

got Carmen who's been here. Competition, you know, if you really want that job, Jackson, you got a guy that's you know, they're high on And that's what I loved when I was playing. You always had somebody, you know, nipping at your heels, and I think that's going to be good. Competition is always great for so you know, hopefully that will happened. You know, they have Joan over

there who now has some experience to help out. So uh, you know, we'll see I'd like to see, you know, one of the two just really, you know, boom rise to the top and take it over. Joan is at your old position. Did you see a lot of growth there last year? I did. I mean, you know, I watched him closely, and you know, I've always liked his tenacity. I've always liked his work ethic. I've seen that, you know,

there's progress being made, So I'm happy with that. You know, at first, you know, you know, it's hard to say, Hey, I'm a little concerned for it. But the guy's young. I mean, it's young when you expect people to come in you know, a number one picks to light it on fire. And but I have seen some progress there and I'm excited about to see how he continues to grow. Where do you like about Frank Pollock? Well, I guess the first thing I like is the technical part of it.

Anytime you're teaching sound, fundamental technique, I love. But the fact that he'll get in your face, I love that even more. You know, and guys like that you don't have to be screaming young and all the time you know when to do it, and I'd forget. I don't think I've ever seen I forget. You might want to help me playoff game. He's like by the number, screaming

and young, I'm going, yeah, I love that. You know, you know you're going back to I hate to do this, but when Jim mcnallyly was my coach, if something happened, I'd never come off the field where he wasn't at least three or four yards on the field looking up. Okay, what happened? What happened, and don't tell me. You don't know. So you know accountability And that's what I love about Frank. He's gonna he's gonna give you the right things to really put you in the right position. But he's not

one that's gonna shy away from holding the accountable. And I love that about him. I was there at training camp last year when Joe Burrow approached you, stuck out his right hand and said, mister money was my name is Joe, which I thought was awesome. What's impressed you most about Joe Burrow? Well, if you remember that day too, he sat there and UH really encouraged Lapp and I to be around a lot, and other guys to be around.

How much they appreciated that. I mean that to me, spoke volumes that you know, he got a young quarterback. A lot of times they kind of look, do I go over? Do I not? And he just came right over, and man, he was bold and I love that. But just watching the way he he handles it. And I'm not inside the facility, so I can't say, but I love watching reaction interaction, and you can you can tell that the guys absolutely love the guy, will follow him

and just have fun playing with them. And to me, and not to talk about his physical bility, because that's over the top. I mean, I mean someone who's got been hit that much and did what he did last year,

you know, he's a competitor. But I just love the intangibles of him, the leader he is, and you know, I'm sure he gets rattled inside, but he doesn't let you see that he's rattled if something and it always happened if the adversity happens, Man, he pops back and he makes things happen, you know, good after that adversity. So I enjoyed watching him. I really do enjoy watching him.

And uh, you know, the kind of reminds me of a guy that I played nine years with and Boomero Science and you know, it's very confident and tremendous leaders and not bad with physical ability and the mental part of it. I mean, it's it's rare if somebody gets him on the mental side of the game. Last thing, he played on two super Bowl teams. What's the biggest

challenge the year after going to a super Bowl? From that last game the super Bowl until camp is is really keeping the priorities not being because you're gonna be pulled and tugged to do this and do that, and not let that overtake what you have to do, and that's get ready for another run. And you know, looking back at those two I think there was a little

bit of that with us. I think, you know, I got to a super Bowl and now you're speaking here, you're doing this appearance you're doing, and you forget you forget about what you made it possible for you to do those appearances, and that's busting your tail and getting ready and having a great year. So I'd say that's probably the biggest thing, is the distractions of taking away from your preparation. I always appreciate your time. Congratulations on the new position with the Hall of Fame. The Hall

could not have found a better ambassador. Well, Dan appreciate it very much. You know, when that came up, I really didn't think that that was something that I'd be looking at. But you know, when I heard there's a lot of board members nominating me, I looked at the job description. I said, Man, this is what I've been doing in the last twenty twenty five years, and I'm thrilled to be representing the entire Hall and everything that it stands for. And I'm looking forward to building this

new position with our President Ampany. By the way, he held his annual golf tournament about a week ago to raise funds for the Anthony Munio's Foundation. Over the years, he's awarded more than two and a half million dollars in college scholarship money to students in need. That's going to do it. For this episode of The Bengals Booth podcast presented by Ultimate Bengals, download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next

level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App Store and Google Play, And if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating, or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast