Music. This is Belonging, a podcast that explores being alive in the age of loneliness. I'm your host, Becca Piastrelli, a writer, mother, and community tender currently living on the ancestral lands of the Coast Miwok people in present-day Marin County, California. In this show, we explore topics like rites of passage, cultivating meaningful community, seasonal and cyclical living, and what it means to be a good ancestor in these times.
I have thought-provoking conversations with friends, teachers, elders, and ancestral medicine, keepers to help support you in bringing more meaning and connection to your life. I also pop in here and there to share updates and learnings from my own story, because we We were meant to do this together, cosmically holding hands as we walk the spiral of life. You can expect to be challenged by new or old ideas. Face your beliefs and what systems informed them.
Get curious and brave to tell the truth about the deeper, harder things and feel comforted in the knowing that you don't have to navigate it all alone. Music. Hello, I'm back. Becca P. Estrella here. Back with the Belonging podcast after a deep winter's rest. It's been a couple of months, and it's been an interesting hibernation time where I feel like my outward expression was,
hibernating. But being a mother of a two and a half year old and all that's happening in my life, if it's like, was I really a bear sleeping in her den? No, no. But I'm realizing in this season of my life that wintering can be just taking some things, off the to-do list, lightning the load. And then I think, wow, there is wintering wisdom for us in every season.
So I'm coming back here feeling excited to share with you excited to share with you and with the energy of the season quickening and awakening in my body. It's very much reflected in the bio region where I live, which is still California. We'll be. Migrating our whole family to the East Coast, to the United States, to New York later this year.
And I'm in the final sort of goodbye and the slow move process and really appreciating the micro expressions of the season where, I currently live really feeling like winter in Northern California and then feeling as we crossed over.
Of course, here I am in the Northern Hemisphere. So Southern Hemisphere folk are feeling a different expression, but I'm feeling an expression of like budding and blossoming and blooming and we had beautiful rains this winter and really created a much needed moisture, a fecundity, I love that word, and there is an elder tree right outside my office that, today I noticed is really shooting up. Little leaf shoots off of it. And right next to it are two lilacs that are starting to bud.
And then feeling that as a mirror to my body and to my life and to my creativity. And feeling like, whoa, can't rush this. We're just moving with the capacity that was created in the winter by lightening the load. So that's something I have to be careful of for whatever reason.
My astrology, my human design, I feel a little energy and I get really excited, because oh, how much do I love, the feeling of creative energy and idea, momentum, inertia, a to-do list that feels exciting to cross things off of. And yet I find that this seasonal shift that is actually very gradual and stop start and two steps forward, one step back of winter to spring to be a tender one.
So I am gently saying I'm back and stepping my toes back in here with all of you, with, a new episode and with renewed energy. So before I get to today's incredible interview, I wanted to share about something I'm offering coming up if you're listening to this in the first week or so of publishing. The end of February 2023, had to check just then 2023, I am offering a virtual retreat. It's on March 12th, and it's called Rewilding the Self, Attending the Flame Virtual Retreat,
and Deepening Practice. So this is if you've been with me for a while, you know that I, I created a home practice based off the practices of my book, Root and Ritual called Tending the Flame. And then I did a live version last fall for the lineage. Portion and it was incredible. And that's when I realized the magic of course, of course, the magic, in us really experiencing and enacting change and growth in our lives is the doing of it together.
So many of us are alone in our nuclear family or single family or whatever it is, or village-less or village light experiences, feeling like we're drinking from the fire hose of content, talking about the way life could be better, the way we could bring health and regenerativity, and all these values that we're coming into, that we're unlearning and moving through, and there's just like no room or there's a feeling of a loss of momentum or a lack of
embodiment. It's all in our heads. It's not in our bodies. And so the virtual retreat is something that came to me in the winter dream time as a way to move from information overload to embodied practice. So this late winter, early spring is, at least here in the Northern Hemisphere, is about the self for we cannot feel a deep belonging to the land and to communities and to who and what we come from if we deny or bypass the bodies and the souls that we inhabit.
Because we are not machines. We are human beings residing in animal bodies. We, experience cycles and seasonal shifts in energy and mood and we thrive with our hands in the dirt and our bare feet in the soil and yet we spend so much time and energy looking to societal expectations to define us. So rewilding, this term, is about unlearning the ways we have been told to be and embracing the ways we are innately. Because we are after all exquisitely designed heirloom seeds,
inscribed with the wisdom and stories of our ancestors. We are deeply connected intrinsically to the living world all around us, even if it's under concrete. We, are wild. So during this virtual retreat we'll explore the beliefs we've inherited the unrealistic expectations we place on ourselves and be in practice together journaling.
Journeying, sharing, making practice a part of our lives. And then after our beautiful experience of sacredness and connection, I'll give you a two week deepening practice. Because I believe true change and shifting from talking about it to being about it happens in small sustainable steps that are accountable to a feeling of connection to community. So if you're interested in joining us, it's on Sunday, March 12th, 10 to 2 Pacific time.
You can go to bekapeastreli.com slash self or the link in the show notes at Belonging Podcasts. You'll see it there or on my Instagram. If you're in my orbit, you'll find it. So plug, plug for joining me there. I'm really excited about it and for doing these virtual retreats seasonally. Okay, on to today's episode with the one and only second time guest, Mar Glatzel.
So Mar Glatzel is an author, intuitive coach and podcast host. Our podcast is called Needy, who helps humans stop abandoning themselves and start reclaiming their humanity through, embracing their needs and honoring their natural energy rhythms. Her superpower is saying what you need to hear when you need to hear it, and she is here to help you believe in yourself as much as
she believes in you. She's a queer femme mother of two, recovering control freak, and a human who, deeply understands the impulse to relegate her needs to the bottom of a very long to-do list in an attempt to prove her worth. And she has a book coming out next week called, Needy, How to Advocate for Your Needs, and Claim Your Sovereignty. Which I'm so stoked about because as you'll hear in the conversation, I have been with Mara from the very beginning.
We are book sisters. We have been cheering each other on on the day my book came out. A huge basket with a bottle of champagne and flowers and celebration arrived on my doorstep and I've been championing her throughout the process the whole time. And this is what we need. This is what we need to cheer each other on, to hold each other's hand through every moment. And Mara has become a deeply valued, treasured, beloved friend in my life.
And I also think she is freaking brilliant. So this episode. I should say the first episode that I did with her is episode 66, Radically Claiming Your Needs with Mara Glatzel, where we talk about this concept of being needy, and what it is to have a need. So you can listen to that if you're interested. And today we go deeper in that. So we discuss how to connect with our needs, respect our wants and the difference between the two, and let go of the fear that having
needs makes us undesirable. We also deep dive into attachment styles. As ever, I'm always very nosy, particularly about things that pertain to me. And so I get a little live coaching because, why have a podcast of your own if you can't ask the questions deeply on your heart for your life and have everyone listen in. We talk about parenting because Mara has also been deeply,
supportive to me as I've become a mother. She's a mother too. And learning to communicate our needs to our partners and friends, which I thought was a really juicy conversation where we both talk about navigating being in a partnership with someone who has a different attachment style to, you. So hopefully listening to this episode will help you get one step closer to acknowledging your, own needs and make sure you stick around to the end because I asked her to read from her book.
She has these beautiful blessings at the beginning of every chapter and I asked her to read the the blessing from the chapter called, of course, belonging. I should also say when we talk about parenting in this episode, we touch upon some pretty tender stuff around postpartum depression and a brief mention of suicidal ideation. So if that feels like, no, thank you, you could skip this episode.
And I also am trying to do some mental math and I think it'll be around the 40 minute mark, in the conversation, but we'll have the exact timestamp in the show notes at belongingpodcast.com. If you'd like to listen to the episode, but skip over that brief part, I would completely understand that. Okay, so it's time to listen. Please enjoy this wonderful conversation with my dear beloved friend, Mara Glatzel and pre-order her book, Needy. Okay, here you go. Music.
Mara Glatzel, welcome back to the Belonging Podcast. Thank you for having me. I am thrilled to be back and thrilled to hang out with you and all of your beloveds. Why I'm so excited for you to be here is this means the reason you're here, it means your book, Needy, is coming out in a week, from the drop date of this recording, which is just so momentous because, I have watched this book come to fruition, to the bookshelves.
And I was listening to the last episode you did on this podcast, which we'll link in the show notes, in which you said very casually, I'm writing this book and my dad said, you better not call it needy. Yeah, he stands by that. And here we are. Oh, we can unpack that later. The, your book, Needy is being published by Sounds True. We are publishing Sisters next week. And I just wanna say, I'm celebrating you so much offline, but in this online space, I just celebrate you.
And I'm just so excited for this book to be out in the world. Thank you. Well, what people who are listening may not know is that would this book exist without Becca Piastrelli? I mean, I'm genuinely not sure because you've helped me so much and just believed in me, the fortitude of believing in my work.
And I'm just realizing more and more, especially in these last days of the book launch, how vital it is to have people who are able to hold the hope, of what you're creating, even when it is kind of flickering for you when you're, you know, having people who are really strong and firm in their belief in what you're creating. And it is very vulnerable to allow people to do that for you. And that's not something that I do generally speaking.
And I consider it a very happy accident, perhaps like the happiest accident of my lifetime that you said, can I help you? And I said, yes. Which I don't always say yes to that question. Oh yeah, you're a do it yourself kind of person, huh? Or perhaps worse, this is covering up many vulnerabilities beneath it, but what could somebody else do for me better than I could do for myself?
Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes. Which of course isn't real, you know, it's just like another face for, it's not safe to be seen how I am. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Relatable. Yeah. Yeah, the belonging Christ. Yeah. Yeah. The deeper story is you sharing on Instagram that you were writing a book I knew and then you and I were in a group together called the Mavens organized by Varya Eroshana and we were supporting each other, in the early pandemic days, I was pregnant as heck, trying to finish a book.
And we were all sort of bringing something and you were bringing the book. And I said, can I introduce you to our agent, Wendy? And then you got the deal with Sounds True. And that's the logistic of it. But there's also, which I've shared and when my book came out in November, 2021, I was sharing like the emotional process at the same time.
And I've interviewed a bunch of people whose book come out and I always touch on this because I think it's so important and humanizing for everyone to understand like how tender. And emotional and edgy it is to put anything out into the world that you create. But there's something about a book that really touches all these parts where you just wanna run and hide and give up.
And I'm curious about that process for you because you've been so open with me about what's come up for you in this entire process. Yeah, so... I'm a people pleaser, and I'm a control freak, and all for very valid reasons. But a facet of that, has always been a deep desire to micromanage other people's perceptions of me in order to
give me an illusion of safety. I mean, we all know it's not really keeping you safe, but it feels like if I control the narrative of how I'm seen and how I'm perceived, then I'm able to somehow safeguard myself against bad things happening. And this happens, I mean, this is like a pattern that spans my lifetime. But what is interesting about writing a book is that you are committing to black and white print and sending out into the world a lot of beliefs. I mean, people will say,
what's different about writing a book than showing up on social media? You're very vulnerable on social media. I'm like, well, you know, the story lasts a minute. And it's gone in 24 hours. The grid, it's like, whatever, I can delete it. You know, I mean, it is just not the same to say here are all of the things that I think, at this moment in time in black and white. You're going to be interfacing with this byproduct of me who's gonna have this new life with you in your home.
I'm not gonna be there to be cute and charming and correct the record and say, well, that's not how I meant it. And look at me, I wouldn't say something that way, or whatever it is that we think we do in person. And it's vulnerable. And it's also this piece of really coming to terms with the fact that the thing you're creating isn't perfect either.
And I hate that. I hate that so much. If I could have written a book that would be true forever and until the end of time and I could stand behind and was perfect, of course I would. All of us would. But the reality is, by the time you finish the book, I mean, I wrote this book in 2020.
And I am teaching things totally differently now. And there are things that, I don't know, I can't say there are things that I wouldn't have said, but in hindsight, of course, this thing that you've created, you have thoughts and feelings about it by the time where you're supposed to be celebrating. It's like, there's so much going on in there and all of it's very vulnerable and very visible, which is a vulnerability unto itself.
Mm-hmm, a mantra I repeated for myself when I was experiencing that was from Elizabeth Gilbert, the book is never done, it's only due. Yeah. And like helps that parts of us that it's like, oh, there's incompletions and there's iterations and.
They're fortunate enough to do a new another edition. Maybe you can update what most of us are, you know, and, and your book does touch on some very deep personal and relatable human moments of your life that, oh, I just I find it exquisite and probably putting myself in your shoes, the visibility of it. Yeah, there's an intensity to it. And like, how have you tended
to that? What have your tools been? Like, for those of us who are in these moments of like, walking the edge of our just like abilities, walking the edge of our sensations of how to be and feel safe and stay in it, like, how are you doing it? I am doing it by centering whatever makes me feel as stable as possible. Because the more rooted I am, the more maneuverability I have within those thoughts. And the more that I'm able to see, okay, this is my self doubt, of course that's here.
And I'm holding that at the same time as I'm holding this other truth that, even if it's only an intellectual process, it does feel true. And I'm gonna remind myself of that every time I think about it. Something that I've been working with, just the thought is when I notice myself catastrophizing about all of the things that will inevitably, assuredly go wrong when my book comes out. Or reminding myself that I'm making the whole thing up, So I might as well make up a happier ending.
And that is only possible that kind of maneuverability within my own thinking is only possible because I am paying such close attention to how and when I'm feeding myself. How much caffeine I'm drinking how much water I'm drinking when I'm going to sleep creating really hard boundaries around when I am on and offline. And these ways of just holding myself together. And I have just been making myself a lot of snacks, like really perfect snacks and eating at very regular intervals.
These are the things that we wanna overlook and say, hey, well, this is a hustle time or this is a whatever time. And I've had to remind myself like that is not the nature that I, that is not the vision that I had when I created this book. and so I'm not gonna bring it into the world in such a way that it burns me out. You know, the other day I was talking to somebody and they were saying like, oh yeah, I really remember the end of that last month is like a marathon.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, okay. Like I get it conceptually, but for me, it's less like a marathon and it's more like a steady walk And also for somebody who doesn't work in that kind of focused way, I work, you know, I'm working on this project and then I'm working over here and I'm working in this, you know, I'm with my kids and now I'm working in this other area of my house or the intentionality,
even if it's just a steady pace, does require a lot of energy and a lot of fortitude. Because you're doing two things at the same time. The first is holding yourself together enough, to be able to do the work at hand and the second is doing the work at hand. So, you know, my partner will say, I'm throwing a just rager for needy. And my partner will say like, I just need you to approve like the cutlery or whatever.
I don't know. Tell me what you want for this cake or tell me what you want, whatever. And I am sometimes really just don't have the capacity to have those conversations, which they think are really simple conversations. And I'm like, for me to get to where you are, I have to climb over this mountain of, I'm throwing myself this party, it's okay to throw myself a party, I've done something that I'm gonna celebrate, it's okay to celebrate.
These are like, there's so many things for me to get through to get to cutlery or whatever the question is, that take energy, right? So we're doing that tandem process all the time. And I remember this especially from when I was, when I've sent in my first book proposal, I got a lot of... No, I got a lot of like we like you. I mean, but this is not it basically and, and I wrote another book proposal and my agent was like no, I'm gonna try. This is not it. Try again.
I'm even just the stamina to keep hearing no keep believing in myself keeping my myself really low to the ground and open to being receptive to the information I was getting about what people are looking for from me and what kind of feedback was available.
Even that, you know, it's like it took, I was pretty much only able to do that, because it wasn't just being present for that work, it was also being present to the many, many, many needs, that I was having emotionally in order to be present for the work. And so I always wanna give voice to those two side-by-side pieces because whenever we're making a commitment, we have to be ready, able, and willing to make a tandem commitment to our needs, to fulfill the first thing.
Otherwise, we're making a hollow promise. We're not gonna be able to live up to it. And we are inevitably gonna blame ourselves for it. And why, right? We didn't give ourselves what we required in order to make good on the thing that we were trying to make good on. Mm. I think it might be helpful here to define a need, which you do at the beginning of your book. Because I feel like that was so epic and I'm sure it's activated within us like, oh wait, okay, she talked about snacks.
Okay, she talked about water and caffeine and like time offline. Okay, okay, like, wait, what? I often feel this way and I'm in a similar field as you, like talking about care and unhucking from these systems and I often forget like, wait, what? It's like a amnesia. So could you define it for us?
Yeah, so I will say that people define needs differently. And the way that I define it is whatever you personally require in order to exist and also to thrive in that environment, in that situation, in that relationship. And so some people might think about physical needs and those might be eating and resting and drinking water, breathing, moving your body.
Some people might think about having emotional needs. If we look at like a, I mean, I try not to, but if we were to look at like a Maslow's triangle, we would see like we have physical needs, we have mental needs, emotional needs, and then spiritual needs kind of at the top. And I have experimented in thinking about needs in all of those ways. But where I really come down to it is, it's whatever it is that you require in order to exist. And also to thrive in whatever setting that you're in.
And the needs will look different every day. There will be patterns over time, you'll find patterns that exist for you as they relate to how you feel and the needs are associated with those feelings or circumstances that are recurrent. You might notice, okay, you know, when I have a challenging conversation with my partner, I need typically X, Y, and Z thing. But all of this is happening in communication with yourself, where you're asking, you're being patient until you have some answers. If you
don't have answers, you're coming back. You're doing the thing for you that you wish other people would do for you. So if you, after a disagreement, wish that your partner would come back and check in with you or touch base or there would be
a moment of repair, you know, are you doing that with yourself? The way that you are in relationship with yourself has so much to do with the availability of those needs whether or not they, I don't know, I think for so many of us it's like we become to ourselves like that friend who doesn't want to pick up our calls anymore because every time they call it's just they're being an asshole. They need something from us that
we're not able to give them on a tight deadline that we're not able to meet. And it's like with time, no, I'm not helping you move. If you're not showing up at my house when I'm sick or hanging out with me to do something fun like I do not want to pick up your calls about moving your couch. And we become that to ourselves because we only check in quote-unquote check in when we're not quote-unquote living up to.
Our expectations of ourselves right when we're too slow or too tired our brains foggy and then we show up just to blame ourselves or force a whole plan or routine or set of rules on ourselves to try and make us better than we are. And so I. Envision this instead that we are creating a partnership with ourselves where we are in conversation about what we need. So you have the needs, what you, require. You also have wants and I like to think about a want as what you desire
in order to exist and in order to thrive. And a lot of times they go together, right? I might need breakfast and I might want scrambled eggs with roasted vegetables and sweet potatoes. Right like the one is the pleasure piece it's the how the need is the what is the how and a lot of times because you know we're short on everything i think.
We want to put them into a hierarchy and say ok well you know if i have only three minutes to throw at this problem of my humanity where can i best put it like need sounds more important than i want. It's less of a hierarchy and it's more of just a matrix. Both are important to creating a life that is infinitely more satisfying and rich and delicious and bespoke for you individually. Where there's space for the most fully expressed version of you that you feel safe enough to bring forward.
And so both those wants, you didn't ask about wants, but I'm giving it to you anyway, because I think they're both really important and also I really notice that genuinely, when we're in a space of burnout, that genuine, you know, okay, okay, if I have to get on board with a need, fine, but a want is way too much. But sometimes the want can be a more accessible entry point because if you think about it as that question of, you know, the how, it's like, I'm gonna drink my coffee.
What mug do I want to drink it in? Or I'm gonna eat breakfast anyway. What do I want to eat? Or I have to get dressed anyway, right? The one may exist. It's like two coffee mugs sit right side by side one another. One is ugly and one is your favorite coffee mug. It doesn't take any more energy to choose that one, but you have to be in that mindset of the things that I want, the things that light me up matter And they fuel me. Mm-hmm.
Ugh, I love hearing you talk about this because it's like, I can't hear it enough. It's like such a thing. And like I'm apt to either blame like my lineage of martyred women or like the culture or both. But the truth is it remains, which is like, I do feel an amnesia to this all of like what I need to thrive.
And there's also you and I were talking before we hit record about attachment styles and and I definitely am an anxious attachment style in which I am needy, particularly with my partner and my parents. And it's like an inner war I have with myself with being high need and then the self judgment. And so, I mean, why do you think for those of us that relate in that way, we're so uncomfortable, with the needs that are just like very much bubbling up in our bodies and in our spirits.
So I'm gonna reframe that for you. Please. I mean, what is neediness? But the presence of needs, which we all have. I think that anxious attachers really struggle because they are far more apt to diminish and bypass their own needs in order to belong or connect. So they may more so than other attachment styles give themselves very little. Because their primary focus is on external belonging. So at any costs, I want you to love me and I want you to think I'm the best.
And in order to be loved and be thinking the best, I carry all of these stories about putting my needs aside and being selfless and earning my worth and earning my keep and being really lovable. For me, it's just like... Chill people prefer like chill women i have this very much i was raised in the nineties blue crush sort of mindset of like what is an uncomplicated and super hot woman.
What is indisputably and that is not a woman with needs but when we ignore our needs and put them aside in order to belong. First of all, we have completely bypassed belonging to ourselves. Second of all, those needs are gonna come out somewhere. And so needs that we refuse to acknowledge, and center in our own lives, boundaries that we refuse to set, things that we refuse to ask for, because we fear that they're a threat to our belonging, that's gonna come out somewhere.
And so you're caught maybe in this pattern, I know I am of over delivering because I want you to think I'm really good and love me and then suffering from the inevitable burnout that that self-sacrifice creates the perfect storm for. And then I'm like this hot mess of needs and it's everyone's worst nightmare, So what I think is really important is to understand. That our needs are not the problem, that the needs are signposts.
They're trying to guide you home to yourself, trying to guide you to creating a life, and inevitably a greater sense of self belonging and also a greater sense of belonging in the world because it's more true. How can I have a true relationship with you if I'm not honest about what I need. And i find anxious attachers are far more worried. About being seen as needy and so of course it becomes the self fulfilling prophecy.
Because i'm trying so hard to stuff it down it's like coming out of my ears and just like exploding and. Yeah, so let's have compassion for ourselves. And also the ways that we're socialized as women, as people, you know, people of all genders who were socialized as girls. To see any humanity in ourselves as problematic. It's like no one has time for your, you know, blood, sweat and tears genuinely. No one wants to see that. Like fold yourself up,
get yourself together. We are delivered so many messages about how this is the least desirable thing about us. And I think 2023 is a great time to start asking the question of like, Like, do we fucking care about being desirable in that way? Cause I don't. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Ugh, wow, preach. To me specifically and anyone else. I mean, it sucks. There's so much grief. I will say there's so much grief there, but it's also like, I cannot continue pretending that I'm not the human that I am.
What are we all doing? Yeah, yeah. I remember being like so afraid to talk about having my period that I was like hiding, like stuffing my tampon up my sleeve. I mean, like all of it, like why? Yeah. Why? Yeah. We quite literally are the way that we are and having needs is a part of that. Okay, so what's your perspective on neediness in avoidant detachers? No, I'm just like, can you support my partnership right now?
When I just have the- Only if you can support mine. Right. Well, hi, just two friends chatting. Yeah, so I will just go out and say that a lot of times we have. Anxious attachers and avoidant attachers and avoided dismissive attachers teaming up together in partnership. And there is a lot of like chasing that's going on. And a lot of mind reading that's going on. And so. You know something i started to do a couple of years ago was to stop reading my partner's mind.
And i will say 100% honestly that i do not i mean i read my partner's mind constantly that is i have such a highly tuned perception of minute um like movements and details i mean that part of me My ability to read the room is my most highly defined skill. So it's not that I don't still notice literally every single thing that they are doing all day long, but I forced myself to have this little rule which was I am unwilling to interface with
anything that's unspoken anymore. And that means I'm not going to be knowing what you need before you need it. And I'm also not going to be protecting you from my needs because I'm determining that you're gonna be overwhelmed by them before you tell me that is the case. I'm not gonna be helping you when I can think that I would do something more easily or better. I'm not going to spare you from your discomfort.
Oof. So there's a lot of places where this was happening, but essentially I'm gonna stop assuming that I know, what you want and need. And inevitably force the conversation to surface level. And that's uncomfortable, but at least you're dealing with what's really going on, versus this kind of imagining, I think I know, you know, you think you know kind of thing. What's really tricky for this partnership is that people who have avoidant attachment styles, It is profoundly.
Dangerous to have needs. And if you have an avoidant dismissive attachment style, it is profoundly vulnerable to have needs in so far as you like want to shit talk it wherever you see it. And you know it's interesting I don't know if you know this about me but I'm a real armchair expert super fan I'm an armchair. Big time. This is a podcast by Dax Shepard. It's a podcast. It's such a prolific podcast. They produce so many episodes a week and they're so long. It is the only podcast that I listen
to on a routine basis. Wow. Okay. That aside, in one of the first episodes, Dax and Kristen Bell, my beloved, are having a discussion. Anna from Frozen. And the discussion is about how something happened in their relationship, where he was getting up and going to the kitchen and she said, hey, could you get me a glass of water? And he was immediately enraged. Like why?
Would you ask me for a glass of water i'm gonna butcher this but i'll give my go you know then they go couples counseling and this is one of the issues that they work with he's thinking. If you love someone you don't burden them with your needs. So he's feeling unseen by the request it's like what don't you see that i have like all these things going on you think i'm just glad getting glasses of water all the time like you know he grew up in such a way.
In such a family unit where burdening his mother was the absolute last thing that he wanted to do so he learned how to make his needs as small as possible. To the point where the presence of needs felt like an assault you don't see me it's selfish you're taking up all the space in the room how dare you ask for this glass of water.
She said kind of you know we're in a relationship part of being in a relationship is giving each other opportunities to care for one another you know i'm asking of course i could get the glass of water myself but i'm offering you an opportunity. I'm offering you this this unmet need as an opportunity for you to care for me in some kind of way and i want to care for you and also those kinds of way you give tell me what you need i give those things to you.
You tell me what I need, I give those things to you. So I would say, you know, this is more likely more of a secure attachment perspective that she's coming from. But again, it's just an example of like how these micro moments mean nothing, but also mean everything based on how you grew up. Like we come by it honestly. And so when we're in relationship, I find it really helpful to, for example, not personalize the fact that you are annoyed by the presence of my needs full stop, right?
That could feel personal. It could feel like you don't want me to have what I need. You don't think my needs are valid. You don't think I'm worth having them. But actually what it really is, is I grew up in a setting where that was not a thing. Having needs was not a thing. I am unaccustomed to a worldview where you're allowed to ask for what you need from another person and expect that they care or that they wanna give it to you.
And the more that we're able to hold that space for each other's humanity, you know, versus I grew up in such a way that I wanted to be seen and I wanted to be known and I wanted somebody to, you know, this was before cell phones, but the metaphor exists, put their phone down for a minute and look at me and see me and, you know, know what I needed and give it to me and care. I wanted to matter. I wanted to feel like I mattered. Mm-hmm. and how human of me.
Right and in this of course there's a mismatch. And that's where all of the relational shenanigans happens. But I think the more that we're able to just see and understand like the tiny human inside of you is freaking out right now for you know, all these valid reasons and the tiny human inside of me has feelings about that and we're just trying to work it out versus, asked for something that I need, you are unable or unwilling to give it to me, and that means you
think I don't deserve it. And that means you think that I'm bad or unworthy or unlovable. And that means that you might reject me or abandon me. And that means that I'm not safe. And now I'm gonna get really like looped into this. Because for me, in an anxious attachment, I go very quickly from you don't want to hold my hand while we're watching that movie to my life is over and we're getting a divorce. Oh, literal same. Which isn't I mean, it's fine that that happens inside of me.
But also that's not a fair read of the situation. Yeah. So both of those things can be true simultaneously. Speaking of tiny humans, you have two of them. Yeah. May I ask about? Are you down to talk about mothering? Okay. So you, dedicate your book to your two little ones, skew the sobs. And you say, can I say their names? For Delphina and Freya? May you know what you need in order to thrive and have the courage to ask for it.
Well, so I'm going to just ramble my way into the question. I found that I have one child and having and I remember texting you through that and you supporting me so much. I remember I said, Are the are the mothers okay? And you said, they're not okay. Okay, because I'm not okay. But I found like, becoming a parent, especially in the fourth trimester really triggered my little tiny human stuff, like really triggered my attachment stuff. And watching my child need to be soothed, I felt my
inner one needing to be soothed. And so I'm listening to you talking about partnering with yourself and being in partnership with with Cookie and all of it and and just thinking like, how does... How are you applying this to your parenting? Because I feel like there could be a temptation to parent perfectly, to do it, to make sure you, yes, there are needs, but also like we're hitting capacities, we're dealing with our needs, and then toddlers in particular are very high need.
And so I'm just curious if you have any wisdom, specifically, again, this is all just serving of me in that way. Yeah, so I'm gonna say, I'm gonna wind back the tape to Delphina's birth six years ago. And I did not realize how much I needed until I had a tiny human to take care of. Because I had a lot of time and a lot of autonomy and a lot of space. And I was able to do what I'm really good at, which is meet a lot of my needs by at myself before I had a child.
And once Delphina arrived, I no longer had the bandwidth to do that, first of all, of course, but I also. It was like I was just a pot boiling over of all of these things I'd wanted to ask for probably my entire life, but had never gotten around to it. Suddenly it was like a pressing need. And I had, especially with her, a host of postpartum issues.
I had a lot of anxiety with my second child too, but with my first child, I had this thing that happened where I was nursing her, and when my milk would let down, I had like a couple of minutes of just like unadulterated rage, which is a really scary thing to experience in your body when you're holding a child. And I know that now we're talking a lot about postpartum mood issues, postpartum psychosis. It is incredible how strong those hormones are.
And so the practice began for me then and has continued to this day of really giving myself, more grace than I think I deserve, and letting light in to those places that I feel deep shame about. And during that time with Delfina, it's like I wanted to die. And just like how small I felt and how much I didn't matter. And so in those spaces...
It can be so hard to even just believe you deserve to have your needs met, to deserve that you can ask for things from people, and to tolerate them giving you what you need. Because I remember, you know, I was so exhausted. I'd been doing all of the wake-ups because I was nursing and it just seemed like whatever. I was just felt like kind of a marshmallow of a human being. So I was just awake at all times of day and night.
And I remember the first time that I woke Cookie up to be with Delphina in the night. And I was laying there in bed and I knew, it was so, it took me so much to ask. I knew I had to ask. I knew I had to get sleep. I knew that I needed their help. But of course I was lying in bed, fully awake, like pumping with just cortisol, thinking like, why did I woke Cookie up to be up with the baby and like another baby's crying?
And now I'm just, what a waste. I'm lying here, like literally laying, my hands were tucked underneath my legs, just like literally laying here, just forcing myself to receive what I've asked for. And it is so challenging sometimes to be the human. That you are when you're brought to your knees and also be the caregiver to this tiny human that you wanna give the absolute best of what you have no matter what and to know you're a human, you're never going to do that.
Especially I'm an oldest daughter and I'm just very familiar with the ways in which oldest daughters break in their mothers. And that, I just remember that she was born that she was born and I had been in labor for 60 hours and they were like, Like now you have to take care of this baby and I just... Just came crashing down on me that we don't get a manual like.
I felt like so broken down And over the last couple of years now that little baby is six and you know, like brilliant first grade human. But You know the more that I realize how little emotional regulation I just have naturally baked into me, how hard I have to work in order to stay in my body and present with my children. It requires a lot of energy and it's very important to me so I pour a lot of energy into it but
it means I don't have a lot of energy for other things. And I think that's the, other piece that we need to give voice to is we only have so much energy and, And if we are working really hard to reparent the little people that live inside of us so that we can parent the little people that live outside of us, that's a lot of energy that we're putting into that that nobody knows I'm doing that necessarily unless I'm doing a shitty job right then everybody knows.
But there's other things that come at a cost for it. You know cookie my partner is often asking me to do things that i don't have the capacity to do and sort of wondering. Why don't have the capacity to do those things and the reality is it's not a priority my kids are small enough now that. Being with them and helping them feel seen and not as though you know i'm rushing past them are pulling them to wherever it is that i need them to go is a high priority and that means i do less.
Right? And they were little and I wrote this book, but I didn't do a lot of other things, that, you know, I wish you could look right outside my office right now where the pool, that we have that we were supposed to take down in September has been blown around by storms. It has like a rock on it. Just like don't fly down the hill. I mean, there are like, you don't see that pool on Instagram. Look, is there are things that that remain.
I bought some plants a year ago and I just planted them last weekend. And they were in their pots that they came in. In a Tupperware container next to my bed, I'd just been kind of intermittently watering them. Two of them died over the course of the year and I finally just planted them. There's only so much you can do. And just giving yourself as much grace as you can. and knowing that there are not enough trophies for self-work.
There's not that like people lining up to give you certificates for like, wow, okay. You used to lose your shit all the time and now you only lose your shit every 10th time. That is huge progress. I have poured so much effort into that. The end. Nobody knows about me. So in relationship with myself, I have to be willing to give myself props and to see what I've overcome and what I'm holding and figuring out on a daily basis. And that's where that piece of relating to yourself is so important.
Mm-hmm. Oh, thank you for sharing that. That was really needed and beautiful. We have to close. And I was wondering if you'd be willing to read from your book to the folks. So chapter nine of the book is about belonging and you write blessings at the beginning of your chapters. And so there's a blessing at the beginning of this one that touches me so deeply. So if you'd like to read it, we would love to listen. Thank you. Thank you for asking.
Belonging. I belong, my belonging belongs to me. I am responsible for cultivating my own unconditional love. I am responsible for ensuring my own safety and refusing to abandon myself no matter how unsafe my circumstances feel or become. I am responsible for fully embodying my role as the tender steward of my life. I belong. My belonging belongs to me. I don't need anyone to approve of me for me to be deemed worthy or whole.
I have been trained to prefer and trust external sources of validation over trusting myself. I liberate myself by stepping into this knowing No one can ever take away my belonging. Even as I think this, my wounds sputter in disbelief. But it happened before, but I will be lost if they leave me. But what if I trust myself and allow myself to be vulnerable and no one accepts me. I walk the length of my life and collect the splintered and wounded parts of myself.
I cradle my pain in my capable hands. I welcome these wounded parts back into my fullness and commit to a wholeness that has always been inconvenient and deeply human. I teach myself what it means to be seen, held, and unconditionally regarded as worthy of my own care. I remind myself that I don't need anyone else's permission to be who I already am. I don't need anyone to approve of me in order for me to be enough.
If they are willing to leave me for being myself, then they are already gone, even if I am unable or unwilling to see it. When I am unsteady, I lean into the possibility that there is at least as much right about me as there is wrong. I am learning to trust the brilliance of my own missteps. I resist the urge to judge myself and learn to approach myself with curiosity and creativity instead. I am teaching myself a new way of showing up in the world, moment by moment and step
step by step. My belonging belongs to me. Oh, thank you. This book is exquisite. I got to read it in July of last year and provide an endorsement. And it is just, of course, I'm biased because I love you so much. And it is. Just such and just such needed words. I remember texting you and being like, I can think of three friends who immediately need to read this because it will dramatically shift their suffering.
And that's what I believe about this book. So this book is called Needy, How to Advocate for Your Needs and Claim Your Sovereignty. And it comes out next week, February 28th. And we would love your pre-orders. So you can pre-order it ahead of time. So would you like to to share anything, like the things that people need to know about this book? Here's what I wanna tell you about this book. So often, you might hear me talk on a podcast like this,
and you might think like, okay, but how Mara? Like so gay, you know, there's nothing special. There are plenty of things that are special about me, but I'm not unique in that I have learned how to create a life that my needs are at the center of. And I did my best to give you all of the tools that I have in a very straightforward and tangible ways. For you to practice working with yourself, partnering with yourself, partnering with your needs in that way.
And so this book is both, the blessings are kind of the vision and then everything that comes after in the chapter is addressing that okay, but how point. And so you're gonna get a lot of straightforward instruction from me. And also one of the reasons we don't get our needs met is because we don't know what it is possible to need. And so this book seeks to dramatically, radically expand what you think is possible to need. And that's really important.
That's really important for you. That's really important for all of us. And I will say, if you pre-order the book and you go to my site, tamaraglatzel.com backslash book, and fill out the form. You're gonna get a lot of goodies, including an invitation to my really awesome, virtual launch party it's gonna be. There are special guests, it's gonna be very fun. And also you're gonna get a playlist of all of the blessings. So if you love that blessing, I read you all the blessings in the book.
So even if you don't buy the audio book and you have the regular book, but you wanna listen to those blessings when you're on the go or in the middle of something or you just need to be reminded of who you are, that's a really good thing to tuck into your back pocket. Hmm. Wow is will the virtual party also be a rager. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm liking that energy from you. Yeah, there's gonna be giveaways.
Oh, it's gonna be outrageous. It is what is so funny is that I am learning so much about myself in this process of being more visible around the book launch where I'm like full tilt in and I'm remembering this part like this. My six year old, she just loves a party. She just wants you to put on a fancy dress and eat cake and give her presents. And, you know, there is a part of myself too, that has been so socially
conditioned to suppress that love for that kind of revelry. And I'm bringing it back. Yes. Oh, I celebrate you so big. I will continue to celebrate you because this is just, this is just so good in so many ways and such a modeling for all of us. The book, writing the book, putting the book out there, throwing yourself the multiple ragers in various formats, talking on all these podcasts about what you know to be true in this moment and modeling your humanity.
I just, I thank you so much and thank you for being here. Everyone go pre-order Needy. We'll have all the links in the show notes at belongingpodcast.com. Thank you, Mara. Thanks for having me. This was awesome. Music. Thank you so much for joining me. In a time when our attention is being pulled in so many different directions, it means a lot that you took time out of your day to spend it, with me and in these important conversations. For show notes and links and more information,
about my guests, you can head to belongingpodcast.com. And if you'd like to hear more from me and, get access to my free newsletter called Slow and Seasonal, you can head to bekapeastreli.com slash subscribe.