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Were the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to Being Frank. We're the only way to be, is Frank. I'm your host, Franklebano, and i'd like to thank you for joining us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation podcast, where no conversations out of bounds and all points of view are welcome. You know, we record live to tape, and I give you the date so you have some relevance and context. It is
the eighth of April. Like so many Americans over seventy million, who did not support the re election of Donald J. Trump as the forty seventh President of the United States, I am appalled at his wanton destruction of our current version of government and constitution. It has proved more than
frustrating to me. It's downright frightening. And I do what I can to resist, writing in my blog Talk Frank and for Niak News and Views, as well as podcasting here at Being Frank with our version of Intelligent Talk. But I don't want to just talk about it. I want to do something to change it. I want to actively participate in winning our government of the people by the people back, and I want liberty and justice restored for all. However, it's simply too much for anyone to
accomplish alone. Then I found out that I am not alone. There are indeed millions of other like minded Americans all over the United States dedicated to a non violent revolution to return our country to some level of decency. They are mobilized nationally under the umbrella organization known as Indivisible, and we have an intensely active local chapter right here in Rockland County. Just within the last few weeks, they have staged numerous well attended protests dents at various locations
throughout the county. Let me read you something from their website, Indivisible Rockland. We are residents of New York's seventeenth Congressional District, united in our commitment to defend democracy and oppose any actions that undermine the rights and freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution in their efforts to weaken institutions and erode democratic reforms. We stand together to ensure that the current administration is
held accountable upholding civil liberties and justice for everyone. Indivisibal Rockland is a community of activists led by a steering committee. As of the fourteenth of February, the steering committee members are Bill Batson, Pascal, Jean Giles, Nelson Garcia de Leone, Latania Watkins, Debbie Stedge, Darcy Castellaro, Tracy Obenhawer. Four of them join us now. Let's meet Bill Batson, Pascal, Jan Giles,
Nancy Garcia DeLeon and Tracy Openhauer. Welcome, guys, Thank you for joining us this evening on this very important show.
Hey Frank, thanks for having us.
Thanks for having us, guys. Let's let's let's start with getting to know a little bit about each one of you. So, nelsons, let's start with you. What what brought you here, Why are you here with us tonight, How did you become involved with h with the Indivisible rock Let's start with you.
Thank you so much for having us.
So.
I am a social worker, I am an immigrant. I have family members who were born here, family members who are documented, and also family members who essentially are part of the community. And so with everything that is going on after the Trump administration took office and even before then there were things here and there, whether it is at the federal level or at the state level, that is just not okay, and nobody else was doing something
about it. So what better way to get something done than to grab a couple of friends who are like minded, people who have different struggles like mine to be able to do this work.
Excellent, Thank you, Tracy Europe. Next, would tell us a little bit about yourself, your involvement here. What do you do with the organization?
Yeah, sure, I'm probably the least exciting member of the group. I'm just a general member of the public who met Bill and Pascal. Over the past few years, just kind of volunteering to make graphics for events and meetings. I got involved with the local Democratic Committee. But probably since twenty twenty, I've just been completely I mean, forget the
first Trump administration. Twenty twenty. I just I had reached a boiling point and I'm disabled, so I it took me two years in twenty seventeen to learn to walk again, So it wasn't until twenty twenty that I was really able to get out into the public and start to get involved. And so I've been quietly working behind the scenes for the past couple of years, and then this came along and I immediately raised my hand because having worked with Pascal and Bill in the past, it was
a no brainer for me. And then meeting the rest of the crew Nelsy, it just was a perfect fit. And we're all kind of like minded, so we all have the same goal.
Great. Thank you, Tracy, Bill bashing Eu roup. Next, please tell us a little bit about yourself and your involvement here.
I think COVID's an interesting parallel because Pascal and I have known each other for a bit. But I think after the mur of George Floyd, we got involved in this thing called the Rockland People's Panel on Policing, and for as devastating as that time was for our country, not only the isolation of COVID but the reality of watching a man die for nine minutes on a videotape. As separate as we felt, we also had this enormous need to come together, and we had this group where
we met every week. I think it was like a five o'clock every Wednesday for like a year, and it created this intense bond and this real realization that even though we were kind of, you know, physically alone, and divided because of the pandemic and the fear of illness, we were able to combine and to create something really enormous. And you know, I think one of it's a tough lesson of politics in America that all that effort produced not one single police reform. So I'm still scratching my
head over that, you know. And now the country's actually gone in the opposite direction, which is more than a head scratch. But I think there's just the urgency there and the notion that there are incredible people out there willing to work collectively, willing to work creatively, willing to be resilient, willing to persevere. And now we have a bigger challenge. We have a bigger challenge. It's the biggest challenge any of us have ever faced in our lifetime.
But we also have the knowledge that we're not alone.
And Frank you said that, I think that that's why people come to our meetings, because nobody wants to feel alone. And you can't accomplish anything alone. If history tells us one thing, great things do not happen.
Doesn't matter.
If at the end of the day we only remember one name of one person, it's really countless people who come together to make that person who they are and to create the change that we need and we've needed in history, and we need so much right now. So I feel blessed to know these folks and all the people have joined us, and I'm very happy that Indivisible persevered and is still around and can't wait to see what's next. And maybe we even have some ideas for some things to happen next.
Yeah, we talk a little bit about all of that.
I hope to you, and I think you raised a great point because I know as an organization, and we'll get to Pascal in just one minute, but I think Bill raised something very important, and we're going to talk about a little bit more detail about your zeitgeist, so your mindset, if you will, and I know it's based on the teachings of nonviolence and Martin Luther King, And as Bill said, you know, we tend to see that the tip of the pyramid, but there's this massive amount
of structure beneath that tip, so that you know, the sayings and the leadership of Martin Luther King is what we all aim for. But there are many people that come together that form the pyramid that that MLK is only the tip of a much larger thing, a much larger organization. I think that was a great point that Bill made there. Pascal Jean Giles, please tell us a little bit about yourself, why you're here and you're involvement with Indivision.
Thanks. So, I would say, you know, I guess I've been a lifelong sort of civil servant to some degree. You know, my parents are you know there. I'm first generation Haitian American. My parents are not from here, my grandparents aren't from here, but they all came to this
country in like the sixties and seventies. And so when I was really young, my mom and my dad were part of the Haitian American Parents Association called KAPPA, and they were advocating for Haitian American students in both the East Ramical School District and the Naiax School District because
that's where a lot of Haitian students were. So that, you know, when I was younger, I thought those meetings were really boring and I'm like, oh, they're just sitting around and talking, and I didn't want to go to them. But as an adult, I realized how valuable being in those spaces was because it really showed me that there were these parents, these adults who were trying to make their community better for not just their kids, but for
everyone's kids. So, you know, that's sort of the the thing I take with me and everything that I do in Rockland. I was you know, I started in my hospital and I haven't really left. So I really love this place. And that's why I'm part of Indivisible Rockland is. I just see that as an extension of being a civil servant, caring about your community, loving where you're coming from, and also recognizing that this place can be better for everyone. So that's that's what brought me here.
I just wanted to mention one thing that, you know, the rest of the crew we come from a why ranch of socio economic backgrounds. We some of us are homeowners, some of us are renters, some of those carriage student loans, private loans. We some of us have navigated government assistant, We have faced hardship, We have deal with private insurance,
government insurance, and everything in between. We have seen and we have experience these things that we are trying to change, and so I just wanted to mention that because some of our members are not here today.
Yeah, if you are the modern day middle class, really.
You know, I'm going to talk about membership and who are the members, not only in terms of the steering committee, but in general, who are people? Who are the people becoming involved? But before we even get to that, let's talk about Indivisible as an organization, as a national organization. And guys, it's an open discussion. I don't have to call on any one person. Anybody wants to take the lead on any particular topic or question, please feel free to do so. But let's talk a little bit about
Indivisible itself. I mean, it's a word. We understand the word. But as an organization, where did it come from? What is the umbrella organization about? Before we get into the actual Rockland organization anyone, So it was born.
It was initiated in twenty sixteen after the election of Donald Trump, and the movement has been going strong since then.
Yeah, they started out. It was a couple, married couple.
They had as a husband and wife, a husband and.
Wife they had put I'm forgetting their names at the moment, so anyone can chime in and help me out. But they had published this guide on I believe it was Twitter or something where it was just like how to effectively, you know, hold your elected's accountable, resist the Trump administration changes, just this whole individual and it just got shared around and shared around and shared around that so many people
started really taking this to the next level. And so leon Ezra, that's thank you, Elsie.
They yes, yeah, love good love quick.
Goes through with it, and you know, they just they started this movement just you know, just like everyone else who really wants to get just people.
Just two people started this gigantic. Now it's a national There are what would you call them, not clubs with chapters, chapters. Thank you, thank you guys. That's part of being frank, getting things terrible stuff. At one point, Yes, yet there are chapters all over the country. How many do we know? How many total members in the in the organization? Does anybody have that number? By any chance? I don't know, not off the top of our heads.
I think the last time we were on a call, when we were on the Schumer call, I want to say, there was twenty five hundred.
Close to Yeah, that was like all the chapter leads. Yeah, still, and that was across the country. They had a lot of chapter leads. I think it was about that much.
All right, Well, okay, let let's talk about then the Rockland chapter. How did that all come about? And tell us a little bit about it. Also, I want to know a little bit about your mission statement. You know, what do you guys really about, Yes, of course, just just.
Just a point of I don't know, continuity, or just to bring up the fact that many of us talked about COVID and how it affected.
Us the last time.
Because I'm a student of the civil rights movement, a student of protest. I've worked for labor unions, for housing organizers, for community groups, and when when the protests were going on for George Floyd, there was a moment where almost every city of any substantial size had to protest going on for a period of time, and it was the first time in a America because normally, you know, protests would be around big cities, college towns, the East coast,
the West coast. But Floyd kind of changed that whole dynamic. I think that the hands off day on April fifth, you know, everybody is so you know, cautious and apprehensive about information and you never really know if you're getting the best information, but just in my own Facebook feed, the small towns like ten thousand people in Rochester, New York.
I mean, so there is a kind of protest movement that's really not being I don't think reported and comprehended that's going on, and I don't know if it's you know, certainly there's a loose affiliation around and indivisible and we'll talk about you know, our mission and our code of conduct, but there is something happening here.
That will let's develop that. Then what do you think it is? You know, their turn grounds, well all those things. What is driving this force in this opposition? Can we Is there a way to describe it? Pascal?
You yeah, I mean, so you know in terms like before I guess I go any further. I do want to say our roots didn't just start as Indivisible Rockland. Before it was Indivisible Rockland, it was Rockland United, which was the first iteration of the chapter in twenty sixteen. I know a lot of those members were sort of burnt out, a little bit exhausted, so they handed the reins over to us, and so we decided, you know, if we were going to do this as a group,
we would have to sort of re organize ourselves. But I will say I don't think that the groundswell has I think it ebbs and it flows. There's one thing I've seen just being part of a lot of this stuff since I was a kid, is that there you know, there are times when people feel like, Okay, things are in a better place, so we can rest. And then there are times are like, you know, we're really concerned
about certain freedoms and democracy and things like that. So you know, in twenty sixteen there was a high apex of that where people were really scared about all the things that Trump could and did do. And then you know, the election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris came and so people were like, all right, maybe, you know, maybe things will be back to normal. We'll have issues to deal with, but it won't be the existential crisis of
will this democracy stand? And I think with Trump's second term now you're really seeing everyone is like there, you know, he is actively making a choice to destroy our democracy and are we going to let him? And so that's why we're getting so many people to really show up at these rallies and come to our meetings and come to our events because people are feeling helpless and they need a place to go where there's like minded people
and where there's action involved. So I think, you know, with a lot of the stuff that's happening like this is where people are, people want to see some action. And I think there's a fear that if we don't do something, we will and when we just sort of roll over like this is how democracies die.
Well, you know, I'm sure that there's a fine line between action and violence, and I know that's an important point that's made when you go to your website and it's a theme that's repeated that it can only be successful through nonviolent revolution. And I know that's important. But how do you and again forgive me, sometimes it just play the devil's advocate in order to be able to answer a question, how do you promote action, real action,
and yet at the same time avoid confrontation. Sometimes that can lead to if not even physical violence, but sometimes there are different levels of emotional violence, etc. So how as an organization can you move things forward aggressively yet at the same time main respectful to the tenets of non violence? Anyone I would say that.
We uh there's a I don't remember the woman who said it, but there's a phrase that says, the revolution you make determines what comes after. And I think that we're all driven by community and by trying to figure out a way that I mean, what really is offensive to most people. I mean, obviously there's a tremendous amount of concern for the lack of democracy because it is really the dividing line between chaos and community. Actually that was doctor King's last book was called you know, you
know what's next, chaos or community? But we and we need that. But when we first the first action that we organized as a committee was a silent march on Martin Luther King's birthday to show communities that we knew were being threatened with rhetoric that we would be there for them. So, you know, that's where we come from.
And and and.
What I think is true is that most people respond to that. I mean, most people were members of families we have. You know, some of us have children, some of us we all have parents. We all have family members that we care about, and and that's what's that's what's being threatened. So when you go after an immigrant,
you're going after somebody's family member. When you're going after you know, a trans youth, you're going after somebody's you know, child, when you're going after you know, a woman, you're going after you know, somebody's mother, when you're you know, when you're going after somebody in the black community, you're going after a member of your church. And and so by caring for other people and kind of worrying about other people,
we defined ourselves in that first act. So and and and we're also being very careful because we've been through it. I mean, part of the US and here is that you know, this is not our first rodeo, and we've seen the kind of rancor well, actually, I would honestly say that what's really informing us is the other side, because who on earth I would want I want to elect somebody to office, or I want to hold a person in office accountable. I don't want to storm the
capital with with with you know, bear spray. I mean, who on earth wants to do that? And when you see what happens and what that leads to, I mean they got the government that they made, you know, they wanted to storm a capital and now they have a violent government. So we want to surround the Capitol and hold hands in pray, because that's the kind of government we want.
Let's talk a little bit about Rockland Indivisible, Rockland as an organization, okay too. I think people are curious, you know, the hear it as a title? Is or is everyone involved with it? Are you all volunteers? Are there paid positions? What about a budget? I mean, these are all logistical things, and I'm sure you know questions that people might have. We could call something of an organization, but how is it organized? Is there an operating budget? How are you funded?
Are people paid? How many volunteers do you have? Let's let's do a few nuts and bolts things.
Contrary to popular belief, we are not paid protesters. If someone can direct me to where I'm supposed to pick up my paid protester check quote unquote, please let me know because.
I make sure that make because we.
Slap together two pennys in a dream most of the time.
So is every everyone? Tracy?
What's the head?
Tracy?
Yeah?
I was just going to say we are all one hundred volunteers. The first three major events we did, we bootstrapped together. We're our own money. You know, we were very lucky to have an event this past week that allowed us to do some fundraising that will hopefully allow us to be able to raise money in the future for bigger and better events. I think we were lucky, and I'll just kind of tap back to the Rockland United people. We were lucky to get a platform that existed,
so we had a mailing list that existed. We had a Facebook that we created, but we took over their Instagram. I also created a Blue Sky, so we were lucky to have about a twelve hundred person mailing list. We've since grown that. We're like a two thousand person mailing list now. Our Facebook went from zero to seven hundred
and sixty something followers. The Instagram was at seven hundred and ninety now it's over twelve hundred, and Blue Sky was built from the ground up that's over thirteen hundred. So we were blessed to already have an audience that we were able to grow from there. So we're very grateful to Rockland United for giving us that platform. In terms of everything else, one percent volunteer. I think I put in what thirty plus hours a week.
Wow.
Tracy is the heart and frames of our operation, we would be deader.
I write the newsletter, I do the social media. And this is not a braggadocious moment. This is just what it takes to be able to get the information out there.
It puts the indispensable and indivisible.
But then you know, you've got Bill and Pascal and Nelsy who you know, write press releases and do all the things we need behind the scenes in terms of having intelligent communication out to the public. We bring it back to the steering committee, everybody signs off on it and gets their their say, and we're blessed to have
people who are interested. I think people are so just confounded by what's going on in the world that action is the antidote and it's it's what people are looking for, and so our events are something that bring them comfort. We had five hundred rs vps to the April fifth Hands Off protest.
Let let's let's talk a little bit about those events since you mentioned them, Tracy. Let's see and I've been too few. The march, the march across the CRMO Bridge. I also saw the UH recently with the comedians. I want you to talk a little bit about that. And of course the hands off day, all of them successful? How how do you come up with them? You know? And what is you know what plants the seed? What? What what do you think will well, you know, get
people to become you know, truly actively involved. How what where the germs of those ideas come from?
Does some of them come from Bill's brilliant mind? Some of them were gifted to us. We all kind of sat around. We saw a viral moment happen with Michael ian Black, and we were in a text chat going, wouldn't it be amazing if we could get him to do something for us? And people just started talking to people in their networks and miraculously someone had a connection and we were able to get him to come. In terms of the Delgado town Hall, I think we've been
very lucky. Pascal and I have been working with a coalition of other grassroots organizations that include not only Indivisible chapters but also unions. You've got WFP in there, quite a few others, Empire State voices, and they've all been very open to working together and so we were able to bring the Delgado Town Hall with their assistants as co sponsors. So we've been really lucky, and again I think it goes back to we had a foundation that we could use as a jumping off point. So we've
been very lucky. We're also very ambitious in terms of what we think we can put out into the world. I mean, since January it's been NonStop. I was actually waiting for April fifth to be over so I could sleep for two days.
I think also like no idea is a bad idea for us, because we also, like we got to meet people where they are, and you know, people want marches, people want rallies, but people also want down time to like talk about politics in a way that's more funny and not like, oh, I can't believe this is all happening. So I think we're just trying to, you know, really cater to what we're seeing ourselves and how we're feeling ourselves.
Now when when you assemble people and as I said, I've gone to a few events, and you know, it's not done haphazardly. It's done with a sense of purpose, Okay, in a sense of safety. Also because you know, we're in a very fractured society right now, and obviously and I know at the four corners in nanuet Here in New York on every weekend there are hundreds of protesters and they're also counter protesters. How do how do you teach people? What do you tell them to keep their
cool in situations that can get heated? Because I think that's important so that people are not afraid, so that they know they can do these things safe. Who can address that?
Well? So I've done a lot of mediations and one of the things that we always talk about mediations to set the scene and sit in stage. How you want people and where you want to place them. So I think all of us with that in mind. You know, we have that in mind of where we want people, but we also have safety in mind. You know, we know that living in you know, very turbulent times, and the first thing we constantly think about is are we
going to be safe when we do these things? So, you know, when when you have that at the forefront's keeping not only ourselves safe. But people say that really does help you sort of set the stage in terms of you know, are we going to have marshals at every area? Are we going to make sure that we have security? You know, we do collaborate to some degree with law enforcement when we need to to make sure
that you know, they're aware of what's going on. We're keeping people safe because that you know, people will be able to feel what they feel express themselves, but they don't want to, you know, do harm to themselves.
You know, I think that's a very important point to make. Bill you want you wanted to jump.
And then I'm hoping that Nelson will chime in at the end and I'm going to hand the baton to her and she'll know when. But so, h there's a method to their madness. It feels like sometimes it's just hate, but you know, it's a little bit more diabolical than that. I often look for theft. I mean, they're really plundering. So they're taking money away from children and away from veterans.
But where is that my going? It's not neutral, They're not just keeping it in the bank.
So there it's you know, going in one of the one door of the building and going out another.
But there's also something else. It's control. It's about control.
So why would you why would the park Service remove Harriet Tubman's name, you know from underground railroad.
You know monuments? Why would they do that? Well? Because her story is dangerous. She represents resistance. So it's not just her skin and her gender that's offense. Offensive, and that is offensive to some, but.
It's really what she represents and what she did, and what she did was put forward something so powerful in time that it that it still gives us guidance on what to do, you know. And actually I told the story backwards because I wanted to talk about the underground railroad at the end.
But but you know, there are other examples, like you know, Martin Luther King.
I mean, if you look at the story of the Civil Rights movement, it's a manual for how to overcome authoritarian government. Because what was Montgomery, Alabama but authoritarian government that controlled all of the public resources. And here was a group of people who had no power whatsoever, and who were threatened with violence every step of the way. But yet for three hundred and eighty five days they
resisted in a way that changed the world forever. And it still changes the world because you can't erase that. I mean, you know, doctor King said, truth pressed to the ground rises, and you know it's rising, and that truth is the stories that I mean there are, like you know, some people go to the Bible. But that's like, you know, if the Bible, if they're going to add a chapter, you know, it could be the Book of Martin, right,
So that's our Bible, right. But the underground railroad road I brought up is because when this thing started, we realized that we needed an underground railroad and an overground railroad because there were slave catchers in the county again, and this time they weren't taking black people, but they
were taking immigrants off the street, literally disappearing people. So I know that Nelsi is a person who's been fighting against that even before it was the official policy, because certainly immigrants have been a scapegoat in our culture for
a very long time. But I just wanted Elsie to talk a little bit about the efforts that she's making because you know, that's one of the things that informs what we do and it you know, I mean, obviously you asked the question, you know, how do we keep non violent?
But the question is, you know, how do we keep effective?
Sometimes non violence is the most effective way, but sometimes the playbook of the underground Railroad comes into play too.
I think it's important to mention also that the other side really wants you to come out of character because they feed off of that energy, and we don't want to feed off that that energy. We want change, We want to be heard, and we want to make our point, get our point across. So we know that violence is definitely another way. And I haven't even shared these with
my colleagues. But even when I saw, for example, with Mike Loler, I saw somebody was planning on going to his house, I immediately texted somebody who knew him to let him know, like, Hey, this is happening, because I know that this is not okay. His family lives there, we know that he has kids. His wife and kids didn't ask for this type of engagement for the community.
His house should be a sanctuary, you know place, But that doesn't mean that we cannot activate and use our energy to in another way that is not harmful, or put his family in danger, or or put ourselves in danger. Yeah, I unfortunately his office, you have to make an appointment to go there.
Yeah.
I do agree with you know, I don't think because I don't want to put anyone in danger. And while I might disagree with our congressman, I don't think people showing up at his house is the right answer. I don't think that helps further the cause of justice and democracy because you don't want anyone showing up at your house. I certainly don't, you know, in the same vein like they put they through bricks through Martin Luther King's windows and doors. You know, they fire bombed Malcolm X's house.
You know, they shot MegaR Edwards in front of his own home. So like, these are things that you know that have happened, and I don't want to put anyone in danger, and you know, we also want to recognize that. Look,
I get, we get that people are angry. There's a coold there's a better outlet for your anger than showing up at someone's house or burning something down or or causing a level of destruction, because that only just helps further firm up what Donald Trump is saying about, you know, people being this and that and animals and all this other stuff like that only helps him with his cause.
If if that's how we all sort of act. I mean, you know, like I said, there's there's better ways to take that agg out and to hit people where it hurts without putting anyone's live in danger.
Well, I think, and I hope this comes out properly in the right way as a question too. Just recently, people are all over Chuck Schumer for his supposed to capitulation okay, a compromise, et cetera, and brought up that Democrats and independence are just not strong enough. Okay, they talk a good game. Okay, these are all nice, esoteric concepts, but what are you really changing? What are you really accomplishing?
So with that in mind and what that said, what can you ultimately hope to accomplish besides you know, feeling good people again, might Insultan say call it a Kumbaya moment, but we need more than that. I think most Americans are angry. They are angry with the situation, and they want to vent that anger. How can they do it? And how can you? What can you ultimately accomplish through your agenda? Bill? You wanted to take.
These you know, it's it's incremental. The first step for us is, and it's actually a quote from Booker T. Washington, cast your bucket down where you are. So we can't necessarily control events in Washington, but we certainly have to feel secure in our person, in our homes and our communities in Rockland, so you now, you know, you lock down your community, you make sure that you're aware of moneies that are being lost, programs are being lost, people that are being lost.
But just to go back to the Book.
Of Martin, it might sound esoteric, and certainly, you know, to convince people that you have a quick remedy would be a falsehood anyway, because as I said, these are unprecedented times. But you know, living as a black person in Montgomery, Alabama was unprecedented too, and they were they managed to change things pretty drastically, even though the bus is now driving backwards. But they had this thing that's now part of our code of conduct called the four
steps of a non violent direct action campaign. And those four steps are you collect facts to determine if an injustice is alive. So, for instance, in the case of Congressman Lawler, who we feel like is the person who could represent us in Washington right now, a budget is being drawn that cuts medicaid. We have a person who sits in the House of Representatives who could represent us.
That's Michael Lawler.
So we had to research how we thought that he was deficient, and then the next step is negotiation. So the problem is in Rocklann County. We're stuck on that step because there is no negotiation. We've reached out to Representative Lawler, as have many of his constituents, and he does not have open town hall meetings.
It does not exist.
I just want to add one thing. Bill. This is not just at the federal level. We are also so for at the stay level because we are paying very high taxes in Rockland County and we are not getting anything back because our unfortunately, our member in the Senate
is a Republican and does not bring money. It's it's it's just something that I can even comprehend how people are okay with is that you are basically throwing all this money out and it goes to other communities when in Rockland we need so much money.
Well, that's kind of.
Part of it.
More steps, and then the next one is self purification, and that's important because what we do is we ask themselves. We ask ourselves the questions that Nelsey had. Do you want somebody to come to your house? No, so you don't send somebody else to somebody else's house. And then the final one is direct action. And what I argue is, if you do your research, if you really negotiate, if you really self purify, that fourth step, which.
Is unknown, makes itself known.
So on the question of our legislative agenda and past scale, is the person who chairs up that effort for us, we can discuss it. I mean, you know, we are limited to some extent because we're volunteer organization, because we're new, and because we're we have so many people involved and we need more. But you know, I mentioned the federal because really that budget is a little terrifying right now.
But we will move on to state and local issues, and accountability is the thing because some of us, you know, have run for office, some of us will run for office. We might support people who run for office, but ultimately it seems like the missing factor here. We don't need more political parties in the country. We need mechanisms to
hold political leaders accountable. And my hope is that Indivisible or an organization like it, persists and stays in formation despite the fact that there's a crisis or there's a better outcome and an election with somebody that we're happy with. People have to be held accountable, and as soon as they don't feel like anybody's watching them and holding them accountable.
We're in trouble, so we're a check and a balance.
And even with that, I mean, it's kind of sort of two things here. Like one, all politics are local politics, no matter how big the federal government may seem. That trooples down into what happens in your wallet, in your backyard, in your schools, everywhere. So like everyone has to sort of just kind of understand that, like everything is local. There's no isoteric issue. It's not this pie in the sky because somehow it's going to affect you at home. You give me an issue and I can tell you
how it affects you right now today. So that's like one part of it, and the other part of it is like if there's any I guess goal or hope is sort of to what Bill said, these institutions fall apart. Our democracy falls apart when peop stop paying attention, when people stop engaging with it. And we're at a point in time where we have a lot of you know, we have both really high engagement and really really low engagement.
So if there's any goal that I think I have is to use this as a place to get more people involved in the process. That means showing up at your committee meetings. That means showing up at your town and board and village meetings and your county meetings. That means running for all this, putting yourself out there to say, I am someone who wants to change my community for the better or for this or for that. I want
to work on school, I want to work on that. So, like that's kind of what I'm hoping when we're pulling in, you know, three hundred people or so, I'm hoping that of that three hundred, three hundred of them will join a committee. Three some of them will run for office. They'll show up at their board meetings and say, hey, why are we paying these high high taxes and we
are not getting X and services? You know, that's the bigger goal, is that we have to like people have to kind of understand that you have to stay involved. You can't just say, oh, I'm tired of politics, or I'm done with this, or I just want to turn it off. No, it affects your backyard, it affects your wallet. Like I'm of someone who watches my money. I don't want anything affecting that. So, like you have to pay
attention to what's going on. In your government. Otherwise, you know, like Bill said, you know, democracy fails, people will come in and take advantage of you and take advantage of your ignorance. So if there's anything I hope to get from this, people are just more engaged and want to be more involved in the process.
Yeah. I just want to add if you're if you feel like you're not good with you, you don't want to get involved with legislation or law. We also have Mutuo l a committee. We have many different committees that where you can get involved if if one of them is not something that you're comfortable with and join another one. But we welcome everyone who is like Manday and it's ready to get to work.
Testing wants your thoughts to what would you like to ultimately accomplish from your time with indivisible Rock one.
Yeah, so I think, you know, from Pascal's perspective when she's talking about the local actions, that's kind of where I started, and I do agree, you know, showing up to town board meetings is super important. I also think at the national level, and we've all talked about this as a group. Right now, it's about optics. We need those numbers. So five hundred RSVPs to the Hands Off rally turned out to be one and sixty two people. That was huge, f Nanuet. I don't think the Four
Corners has ever seen that. And at its most basic level, we don't do this because it's easy. We do it because we believe that regular people still have the power to change.
Every because we don't have nothing better to do. Because that's what I heard, Yeah.
Exactly, we don't have anything better to do when we got checks from George Soros.
But it's better than posting on Facebook every hour.
Yeah exactly. But regular people do have the power to make change. And if we could get the people who are maybe stuck in their living rooms because they're afraid or they're afraid to speak up because of their jobs, if we could start to give them ways to be able to get involved and organize, that would be amazing. Because organizing isn't just fighting back, it's building something better.
It's messy, it's hard, we're all tired, you know, We've put in every ounce of ourselves, but at the end of the day, it's absolutely worth it.
This has been a wonderful perspective. We've got a little bit more to go. I want to talk about the challenges with some of you've already spoken of, and the rewards you've mentioned those as well too. I want to get into a little bit more detail with that, we can what we can expect for the future, and of course how people can find out more about Indivisible Rockland. But we've got to take a quick break where with the steering committee of Indivisible Rockland. This is Being Frank.
I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Will be back with more intelligent conversation right after these brief commercial messages. Please don't go anywhere yet. This is great.
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Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation podcast. Thanks for sticking with us. I'm your host, Franklebono, and you know, as always our engineer as the mailman, mister Neil Richter. We'll be back with our guests from Indivisible Rockland in just a few seconds. You know, we bring our audience a fresh topic just about every week and stream from Hudson River Radio located in beautiful and historic Stony Point,
New York. Remember, you can catch Being Frank anywhere you get your favorite podcasts, because every Being Frank is archives. You can listen to any of our programs anytime you like. Find a link to Being Frank on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page or at our website Hudson River Radio dot com. Just click on the icon and you're there. Okay, back to our conversation with Indivisible Rockland the steering committee, Nelsi Garcia de Leone, Bill Batson, Tracy Obenauer, and Pascal
gene Giles. Guys, thank you for coming back. And I've had a great conversation in the first half of our program, and I tease a little bit. I want to know about talked about some of the challenges and then of course with every challenge, hopefully at the end there are the rewards. What would you say, and we'll go around and go around the room. What what are your greatest challenges and what do you like best about doing this thing? Nelsie, let's let's start with you put your greatest challenge.
I think.
Keeping my call on social media when I see people posted misinformation and uh elected officials calling up radicals when they really don't know our background and why we're doing this, like we have nothing better to do.
That's that that would be it?
And and what's what? What do you like best about it?
What?
What? What gives you enjoyment from doing this? Does it all work?
Actually, this is not an enjoyment for me. This is this is a real thing that has real consequences. I am a mother of a of a nine year old boy who I hope that he grows up in a in a country where everybody is equal and if you have but he has the same opportunities. I have a father with a MENCIA who is on Medicare and you know, may need needs assistance with Medicare, so that that is a challenge for me. I have nephews who are young
who will like to eventually buy a home. There's so many things that that made me want to do this work all the injustices. I grew up in the Dominican Republic. I there are things that that I went through and that my family went through that that shaped me to be who I am and brought that fire in me. So this is really why I do it. It's not something to enjoy, but it's just something that I have to do.
Appreciate that very much, Nelsi, Pascal, why don't you tells your challenges and hopefully you have a reward or to somewhere there as well.
I think, like Nelsie, all of the all the comments on the Internet, I'm sort of just like I have to remind myself that like the Internet is not a real place, you know, Facebook is not real, and I need to also go outside and like be in, you know, be amongst real things in order to remember that. It's like people say things just to say things so I can,
I would say a challenge. I think the other challenge is also turning it all like you know, you know, reminding myself that I am still a person and that I have to shut down at some point and just like take a break and watch TV and like relax and have my downtime because like that's just normal. So I just have to remember to constantly do that. But I think, you know, like Nelsey, this is real life
for me. I feel this, like you know, I I have family who you know is here legally, but you know, as we're seeing there's questions people are just being taken whether they have legal status or not, so I often be concerned about that as well. But I think what a reward that I find in this is that one I'm organizing with people that I really care about and people who I know are are the doers like I am. Like I feel like I get up and I just do as much stuff and I'm organizing with people who
are doing that as much as I am. So that makes me feel like, you know, what I'm not, There's not it's not so isolating, like I'm not alone. There are other people who agree with how I feel about things and are like you know, willing to put themselves out there to do action. So I see that as a reward because I you know, I think of everybody, here's my friend, like my family. I love to love people who are organized with So it's it's nice to
organize with with people that I like. You know, it's hard to do this when you don't like the people that you're working.
Oh love like love.
Very well, okay, Tracy, Tracy Europe.
Pascal's joel Mine. I will say, being someone who did not have a big Internet presence, I actually during COVID like basically pulled myself off all social media. That's been really hard being the social media manager of this group. Every time somebody comments something or I have to deal with trolls, but I'm I'm learning to navigate that for me. It's also time. I've put a lot of time into this, and it was It has been NonStop since January, and as you can see, I'm like dealing with the remnants
of a cold. After April fifth, I think my body was like enough and it kind of just gave out on me for two days. So I slept and that was great, and I'm all caught up. But the beauty of all this, there's so much more reward than there are challenges. Yes, time is limited, and we all do this in addition to our full time jobs and our families and everything else. But the reward of being with these people, this group, in particular the people that we
meet at events. There are some really amazing, lovely people at those events who I am honored to know. I'm honored to put an event together for them, I'm honored to stand with them in solidarity. So that's been amazing and I'm not gonna stop doing this Because I have a dad who's a vet who gets benefits who's on Social Security. You know, he's nearing the end of his life and we're gonna have to take care of him if things keep going the way they go. I am
a disabled woman. I rely on some services to be able to exist in the world. It's we can't stop doing what we're doing. We have to stand up for everybody. And I know each of us has something going on in our personal lives that kind of directly links to
one of the things that are being taken away. But we hear so many stories from so many people that it just makes me want to put my feet on the ground in the morning and get up and make a new website post or another email out because we have to keep the momentum going.
Failure is not an option. It's not Bill Batson, you're up.
Yeah, there's a lot of pressure going last Frank, because I should have had time to think about something good to say.
But I would tell you, I know you want fatulos.
Well, I would say there are two things one and Tracy has been able to remind us of this. I get very caught up in my own experience and my own thinking, and I I, I, uh.
Don't really thank people I find that I I, you know, I give myself.
You know, I say I'm tired, or I I you know, I know I appreciate people, but I don't really acknowledge people. And and and I think that that's like I said earlier,
you know, none of this can happen alone. And there are a lot of people who and I actually I have experiences of being involved in something as like a junior staff or on a campaign and knowing that I made that event happen, and then standing in the audience and hearing people talk about what a great job they did and my name didn't get mentioned, and it hurts, and I think I've maybe made that mistake.
And then the other thing is self care.
You know, you know we've all talked about on this call, but I think that you know, the way you model taking care of other people is by taking care of yourself. And I think I'm I do a horrible job with that. I don't sleep enough and I drink too much coffee, and those are when you get to be sixty two, that could be a lethal combination.
So if they don't see our messages are three four or five am back and forth.
Mill Well, the other thing is that the upsides are camaraderie because now I know a larger number of people who do get up at three and four or five in the morning, so I can reach out to you.
I like that.
So I feel like this community, I feel closer to my family's been any forever, and I've never feel closer to the village and the county. I'm learning more about the county, so that's great. Another thing is that my ancestors. I feel closer to my ancestors. I'm learning things about activism that my grandparents did, and I'm realizing that there's some talents that I've learned from my ancestors, like the people in the civil rights movement who have read about
who aren't my direct family. But you know, we draw the circle of family too close. I think, you know, I feel like I'm involved in a much larger family and I'm pulling from that. And then my ancestors, I feel like I'm expressing things that they had to go through, and I think I'm pleasing them by my actions. And then the final thing I would say is that the
gift I've gotten is spirituality. We made a decision and it was you know, it was something I thought about, but the group embraced it so quickly to ask Reverend Everett Newton and Rabbi Ariel Russo to lead our march over the bridge. And I was surprised, because we're not all will some of us go to church more than often, and some of us go to synagogue of mosque. But
I was surprised to how quickly everybody embraced that. And at the end of that march, Rabbi Russo said something to me that it's just so profound and stuck with me, and she she was she's a wonderful spiritual leader, and she realized that the bridge that we walked over wasn't just a physical journey that that required exertion and required courage, but it was a metaphor and the song, this Hebrew song says that the whole entire world a very narrow bridge,
and the main thing is to have no fear at all. And everybody is cautioning us to be careful that these are times when there's retribution and there are there are threats, and.
I can't live in fear.
I can't acknowledge that you know that reality because I fear more what would happen if I gave in to fear.
So I don't. And the reason I can.
Walk without fear is because the people I'm walking with wonderful quickly.
Guys, you just have a little bit of time left the future. What can we expect? What's up next for Indivisible Rockland? What are we going to see more of less of? And then how can people get in touch? How can people become involved? Anybody? Pascal, you want to grab it? You seem like you're ready to grab that one. Please.
It's funny. I was actually going to defer to Tracy because she knows all the dates.
All right, Tracy, you just jumped on you there ago.
Well, disclosure, we are in agreement that we are taking a few days off, so I'm I'm still gunning for another two days off at least before we start doing anything major. But we are hearing mutterings of an April fifth kind of follow up rally on April nineteenth. I haven't gotten any of the major details from Indivisible, but it's definitely being promoted by fifty to fifty one, so that will continue. That happens to be on a Saturday.
I know a lot of people who were at the hands Off rally expressed interest every Saturday at twelve noon Route fifty nine. We are there. It is posted on the main page of our website. It's typically on our Facebook page, but we're having some tech issues with that Facebook page. I've got to fix it. And then our next big event that we'd love to have people come to is the Monthly me so that's April twenty three.
That's Wednesday, six pm at the Stony Point Center. So if people are available, they can get more information on all of these events on the main website page, which is Indivisible Rockland dot org if they have questions or they want to get added to any of the subcommittees which are mutual Aid, campaign, direct Action and Arts. And then my own which is severely delayed. So I apologize
to all the communications volunteers. It's communication and outreach. They can email Indivisible Rockland OC at gmail dot com and I will get them linked up with the committees so that when they have their next meetings people can be involved and we'd love to have you.
Tracy oberauur Askcal Jean Giles, Nelsi, Garcia Deelion, Bill Batson, and Indivisible Rockland thank you so much, guys, for all the work that you do and the time that you've given us here and your intelligent conversation. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it, really do. This has been great.
Thank you so much for having us.
Thank you, Frank. This was great.
And of course we'd like to thank our listeners who take the time to give us a voice in their lives. Remember we offer a fresh topic every week and catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts. You can also check us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. Leave us a comment, and we ask you to consider sharing being Frank with others. You know, I always leave you with two last little things. A quote that I feel is kind of appropriate for our program,
and then some great closing original music. And the quote comes from possibly the most quotable man of all time, doctor Martin Luther King, when he said true pieces not merely the absence of tension, it's the presence of justice. Says it all quite simply. Right there. I've got some great music from some friends, the Ruse Brothers. Love these guys, and a great song. If you listen to the title and they believe it, you're welcome here in our sweet
home for our engineer, the mailman, Neil Richter. I'm your host, Frank Leguono. We hope to have you join us on the next being Frank, We're the only way to be is Frank. Thanks again. Everyone.
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