Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to Being Frank. We're the only way to be Is Frank. I'm your host, Frank L. Buono, and we'd like to thank you for joining us
here on the Intelligent Conversation podcast. We know that your time is valuable and competition, quite frankly, is fierce, but we like to think of ourselves as an alternative to all that noise, so we really appreciate you sharing some of your day with Being Frank. We stream from Hudson River Radio dot com. We're the mailman. Mister Neil Richter is our engineer, of course I call him that because he always delivered, and Hudson River Radio dot com is
our homebase. But remember you can download us wherever and whenever you listen to your favorite podcasts. That an includes iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple, Spreaker and all the others. You can find the links on our Being Facebook page, and please think about becoming a subscriber and leaving us a comment too. As I mentioned, we have our own Facebook page Being Frank. Of course it's public, so check it out and follow the page for more information about the
podcast. We bring our audience a new topical program every week, beginning on Fridays. Listen at your convenience, and remember every program is archived, so you can listen to any being Frank virtually any time that you want. It's
the intelligent thing to do. Okay. If you live in the Greater New York metropolitan area, as I do, or any other major American city for that matter, you probably know someone of Sicilian ancestry, someone like me perhaps, And despite its relatively small size it's only one fourth the size of Cuba. Most people know at least something about the island itself, or at least
they think they do. But there's so much more to learn about this ancient, challenging, historic, breathtakingly beautiful place and the people that make up it's incredibly diverse, end unique culture. The German philosopher Guerta said this about the island. To have seen Italy without having seen Sicily is not to have seen Italy at all. For Sicily is the key to everything. There is so much more that I need to do to know, even as a Sicilian American.
While we have the perfect Manx to educate us. Excuse me, yes, we do. Gaetano Chipola is Professor Emeritus at Saint John's University and is one of the foremost authorities on Sicilian culture. He is president and editor of Aruba Sekula, an Italian edition of his Learned Sicilian. And forgive me for some of the pronunciations, and I'm sure the Professor will correct me soon enough
when we finish with the introduction. Mapatomulu Sicilianu was published in Palermo. The success of the first textbook encouraged him to write a more advanced textbook, Learned Sicilian to written in Sicilian. His Siciliana Studies on the Sicilian Ethos contains many of his essays on Sicilian culture, including what makes a Sicilian. As a translator of Sicilian poetry, he has published more than a dozen bilingual volumes.
He is also editor of Legas Maniola. Professor un. Chipola has received many prizes, including the Telemone Prize from Agrigento, the Pa de Pina door Gento,
the Prosperina Prize, and Sister Lee's Ambascia Torri Sichiliana Nelmundo. Recently, his publishing house Legas, which has published more than one hundred and fifty volumes, mostly on Sicilian culture, won the prestigious Premio Nazionale pie for twenty twenty two from the Italian Ministry of Cultural Heritage, given to publishers and translators who have promoted Italian culture in the world. Piacere, professor, welcome. Well, it's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me, and forgive me for
massacring. As you can tell, I need to brush up on my Italian a bit, but interestingly and be part of our conversation. As is, as our culture seems to move more towards Spanish, is very commonly heard, Italian not so much. And true Sicilian, which we're going to talk about in a bit. You don't hear at all, certainly in the States and hardly even in Italy, but we'll talk about that. Well, I don't know about that. There are as I don't know if you know, but
there are maybe forty forty percent of Italian Americans are of Sicilian origin. Wow, it's so interesting for I did not know that. But also as you saw my leading, I mean it's popular there obviously. I'm Sicilian, my whole family, my brothers, and sisters, and many of my friends are as well. And it seems the diaspora, the Sicilian diaspora, is pretty vast in general, particularly large. Of course, it's quite large. You
would find Sicilians everywhere in places that you probably don't even know exists. For example, Ebor City. Have you ever heard of Ebor y inhabited by lots of Sicilians who worked on cigar factories together with the Cuban. Wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. But I'm learning all kinds of things in this work. I'm learning that Sicilians were basically everywhere in this country.
And my organization Abasicula Sula Sulach literally means Sicilian Dawn, has about fifteen hundred members throughout the whole world, and we have at least one member in every state of the Union, even in Alaska and in Hawaii. One time I went to actually I was invited for a seminar, a weekly seminar at the University of Hawaii, and there were three Sicilians waiting for me at the airport. That's incredible. Well, so let's get started. Let's go to
the beginning first. I think it's important. I think most people know Sicily is in Ireland. I think most people are familiar that it's pretty much centrally located in the Mediterranean. But tell us a little bit more, if you will, professor, about the topography of Sicily. What is it like? Is it a desert island? It is a tropical island? Is it what's the climate like? It's also a little bit about the physical nature of systems. Sicily is a beautiful island. It used to be a lot more beautiful
than it is now. It used to be covered with trees all over the place. It was forested left and right, and it had navigable rivers. If you go there today, you will find that maybe there's one river that is still navigable, but all the others are sort of dried up. And the reason for that is because when the Romans became well, Sicily was the first province of Rome. So when the Romans came and they after the Puric
Wars, they cut down all the trees of Sicily. And if you go in the middle of the island, you will find that all the trees have been replaced by empty spaces where they can actually grow the wheat. Because Rome needed a wheat to feed their armies, so that they planted wheat all over the place and destroyed destroyed the climate in a way because the trees retain the
water. And therefore if you go in the middle of of the island around and now or cat said and all the other central located, you will see almost a lunar landscape without trees. Is it the homogeneous climate, professor? Is it? Is it? It's known to be the climate. It's very it's uh, it's it's for climate. We have lots of sun all over the place. And the vegetation is absolutely gorgeous. Everywhere you go on the east coast, all along the coast, it's very green. If you go
in the center, it becomes kind of a yellowish. However, the vegetation is bro is wonderful, it is beautiful. Sicily is a very fertile land, obviously because of Mount Etna, which provides most of the water for all the eastern half half of Sicily, you know, is right on the oriental side, on the on the eastern side, so that the vegetation is great and the fertility is such that orange trees, lemon trees have to be stopped
from producing. Uh. There because they if you let them alone without stopping them, they produced lemons four times a year. That's absolutely true. So beautiful island, it used to be known as the paradise. Sicily was more
like the paradise for all the people in the Mediterranean basin. The Greeks came to Sicily in the eighth century before Christ and of course they had certain navigated the island many any times until they finally decided that their land was not sufficient for them, and then they moved and they came to Sicily, not as a conqueror, but as colonizers. Well, they gave to stay. They
came to stay basically as immigrants. Well, not to not to interrupt you, and we'll get there, but you mentioned and we spoke of the ancients and truly ancient history. You talked about eight centuries BC, but there's even a history before that. Who are the original Sicilians? Now I know there are tribes, would you break the Stria? Who are the original Sicilians? As far as we know, the Sicicii had been occupied for at least ten
thousand years, So we have remains archaeological remains in many caves. We have, we have a cave dwellers. But basically we we the most important ones are people called Sicani. We are we call them Cicicanians in English, who
came presumably from around Spain. Uh and the Siicani were people who lived mostly around the mountains, and they were later not replaced but amalgamated with another group of Indo European h people named seque Sequely is the one other ones who actually gave the name Sichilia to Uh to Sicily, but we also Sicily is also known as Sicania, Cicania, and c and Sichilia basically but so the the
Sequely were also people from the north, also into Europeans. Some people believe that they were actually from around the northern area like Jailova and then perhaps uh Latium region of Rome. Uh and presumably they spoke a kind of Latin based language. In any cases, the Sequely became more doneminent and they probably created all kinds of different towns Uh and had difficulties with the coming Greeks. They fought with Greeks several times. They revolted against the Greeks who came in the
eighth century UM. But basically we don't know what kind of language actually they spoke, because very little UH is left of their permanence there as well as for the Sickenians, we don't know. But we also had Alemiums over part of the old older group of emigrants who came to Sicily, the Alemians who were the ones who actually founded Mount eddie Che western side near Palermo. Uh. So Almians, Phoenicians, Phoenicians uh, then Greeks, the Greeks,
Romans. Why yeah, we have about eighteen different groups who came to Sicily as about eighteen, well maybe more because some people did not leave much of a trace. However, the more the more important ones, if one I can tell you, are basically the Greeks who came u in the eighth century, starting on the eighth century. In fact, my hometown of Frank Cavillaio
is just a little about a little above Armena. We looked Armena as a town of Giardini, which today is known as Jiardini Naxos because Naxos was the new name that they added to it, because that was the place where the first colony from Greece UH landed in Naxos, Naxos, and it was right there below Tarmina that was the first in seven hundred and thirty five BC. And within twenty thirty years the people from various parts of Greece came to Sicily.
They originally had actually started up north the Iscia, that was probably the first settlement, big settlement, but then they moved down, They moved down to Sicily and they founded basically all along the eastern coast of Sicily. They founded Messina, Catania, Lentini, Syracusa, then down below Jaila, and then about a hundred years after the first settlement, some of the people who are ready there, like from Jaila and from other places, they moved.
They moved inland a little bit or westward and they founded Agrigento, basically Siracusa and Agrigento became the most important cities, not only of Sicily, but of all the Mediterranean. The Syracusa became so powerful that in fact they defeated the Athenians at one point, so they were masters of the island. They and
they they created their own Greek culture. A lot of the words you when you think of Sicily, and when you think of people like Archimedes or Archimede, as we said Archimedies, most people in America we say, oh he's Greek, He's not Greek Sicilian. He was born, he died at Sakusa.
So that basically I wrote an article which is part of my Siciliana on based on one thing because on the on the premise and the prejudice that most people think that culture always moved from Greece towards Sicily and not the way around. In fact, that is not true because many Sicilians, many of the Sicilians actually traveled back to Greece and taught the Greeks public speaking. For example, Gorgeous of Lentini. I don't know if you've ever heard of him,
probably not. Gorgeous of Lentini was a man who was skilled in public speaking, and he traveled to Athens to teach the Athenians how to speak in public. Uh, we have all kinds of things, all kinds of people. Um, oh, profess and again and forgive me because again it's so, it's so complex and long and ancient, certainly, and you were prepared to do it well, and you know what's what you do to literally lect your hours on the history. But again just to keep it moving along. So
so we have the Greeks. A period of the Greeks who's next, because you mentioned at one point eighteen. But the more important ones, the ones, the ones who were more influential in creating Mississilian ethols, if you like, they were there, because they were there not only at the beginning from the eighth century for Christ until until let's say, the Vanduls came in Sicily in the fifth century. After Christ uh and uh than the Greeks returned basically
when the Byzantine Empire took over Sicily. So the Eastern the Eastern Roman Empire, which was based in Byzantium or Constantinople, basically then had as a Syracuse as a capital of it. So Syracuse was the capital of the Eastern Empire. And so the Greeks came back after in the fifth fifth century through the Byzantines, and after the Byzantine were defeated basically by another group of people who came to Sicily, the Arabs. The Arabs arrived in a twenty seven uh
in Mazar and they took over the island very slowly. It took them a long time to conquer the whole island, but from a twenty seven it took them, let's say, until nine hundred and fifty one or fifty three to conquer all of Sicily, So it took them over a hundred years. But in Okay they came, and again they were not just conquerors. They were there because they wanted to be there, and Sicily represented for them a kind
of a paradise. And they improved. They improved sicily in the irrigation system, they improved sicily in every important different types of produce, oranges and all kinds of silk, all kinds of different things were introduced by the Arabs, and also all kinds of learning because the Arabs in the ninth century, in the ninth century were among the most educated people in the military Union, and so most of the great inventions uh that the Arabs have given to the world
came to Europe through Sicily. So Sicily was the conduit, basically together with Spain, because the Arabs also went to Spain on around the same time. So, but they they were very influential for philosophy. They translated weak test into Latin, Arabic tests into Latin also, so basically they were very influential, and they lasted until nine hundred and sixty one, basically nine hundred and sixty one when they were actually replaced by the Normans. It's gonna say that
people that are really the Normans were in Sicily as well too. Oh yes, ye Normans. The Normans only were they in Sicily, but they were They created basically the first modern state. They were the first. They created the first modern stage, in which the king assemble all the powers within his
hands and controls basically everything. So but they were they were very good people in the sense that they allowed other people to live their own lives without imposing their will, so that they each of the kings, each of the Norman kings was known also by an Arabic name, so that they did not chastise
the Arabs. They did not chase them away, except perhaps at the end Frederick the second exiled them to Chada in Calabria, But that's that's after this, at the end, twelve hundred and forty, twelve hundred and forty. So they, the Normans, created a whole new state, a whole new state, a whole new way of governing. In fact, you always think of having, for example, the first Parliament, the first Parliament, the British like to take pride in the idea that they created the first parliament.
But if you go to Sicily, and if you go to the Palace of the Normans or the royal Palace of the Normans, and you see the Sicilian Parliament, you see two dates. One is on top of the seat where the governor or the man in charge sit the president of the region. Basically you see two dates. One is eleven thirty one and the other one is
nineteen forty seven. Eleven thirty one identifies the date of the first parliament that was held in Sicily, first part moment which involved barons and also representations from the from the communes, from the towns, and of course from the from the royals. So those two days eleven thirty one to nineteen forty seven.
Nineteen forty seven is also an important date because it is the date when Sicily was given a constitution of itself of its own, called the Special Statute, which allows it to make laws about about what goes on on the island. It is the first, It was the first the first region of Italy after Italy became a republic. I don't know if you know much about after World War two, before world War two, Sicily was a monarchy. After World War two, the monarchy was went into exile and it became a republic.
Sicily wanted to secede from Italy in nineteen forty. From nineteen even not doing Fashionism, but after Fastiism, wanted to secede from from from Italy because people were denying it their independence, and they formed actually had an army that would try to fight with that in order to prevent Sicily from seceding from from the Union of Italy from from Italy. Result, they granted it a special statute and it was the first, the first statute that gave him the possibility to
make laws about school, about the climate, about whatever, everything, even though that let doesn't function very well today because the thing that happens in Italy is is determined in Rome. But those two days are important. So let's go back to a little bit. The Arabs through the thirteenth century went through the Arabs, the Normans, excuse me, Themans, and then yes,
after the Normans, we had the Germans. The Germans Uh who married the last person, the last one, the daughter of one of the Normans Uh consense of a concern was the last Norman, and she was married off to Henry the sixth of of Swabia Germans. Uh So the Germans came. But Henry the sixth wasn't very liked. Um. It's because he basically took well,
well took most of the world that was there. And today, for example, you find in the in the museums of Austria and in Vienna you will find the mantle of his coronation, of Roger's coronation, a beautiful mantle made for his coronation. You find it in in in the museum in Indianna. Why because when Concerts was given to uh Henry the Sick as a bride, she brought like one hundred and fifty mules of treasure to from Sicily.
From Sicily in any case, but the good thing about of Henry the sixth is that he fathered Deric the second, and the second is probably the most important or the greatest emperor that Sicily has ever had, because he was literally he was a man of genius. Basically he knew five or six languages. He was born now in Sicily, he was born in Yazi. And because the mother was already in her forties and people you know, in the Middle Ages, people did not live that long, and certainly women did not give
birth when they were forty years old. So basically to prove that it was that it was her child, she gave birth open in the open space in Yaisy to show that Frederick second was a real child that she gave birth to. Way Henry Frederick Sei became the Emperor of Sicily. He uh he had. He was excommunicated a couple of times by the pope because he didn't he didn't like the idea of doing who says, you know, because the pope wanted him to go to Palestine and reclaim Christ's place. He didn't want to
do that. M So he was excommunicated a couple of times. And basically Frederick the second was an important person because he wanted to create a lay not religious. He wanted to create a different kind of culture for Sicily and for his empire. Because he was h emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. He was a descent like I descended of Charlemagne, so he was wanted to create
a lay lay government. He created the University of Naples in twelve to twenty twelve twenty four, I believe, and he created that because he needed people with skills for administering his dominions. So, in other words, school in those days, the university of those days were primarily interested in canon law and religious things. He wanted people to actually help him govern in a intelligent way all of the lands that he possessed, and so he created the University of
Naples. So now we're through Frederick where the Germans. After the Germans, I know there are more. Wait, wait, wait, I want to tell you at least one thing about Frederick. The second he was, he was the people who worked for him created what we call la scuola Siciliana, and la Siciliana is the Sicilian school of poetry, which basically adapted all the
literature that was written in Provence and the provincial southern France. The provincial literature was important into Sicily through Loscola Siciliana, which gave birth basically two Sicilian language the Sicilian language, which was spoken in different ways, but Sicilian language became the first Neo Latin language to be used for poetry in Italy. Sicilian. But when people tell you that Sicilian is a dialect, they mean that Sicilian
is a corruption of something. The Cicilian is not a corruption of Italian. Sicilian is its own language, and that only is it their own language. It's the first language used for poetry in Italy. Dante himself just just to give you that I'm not inventing the stuff. The stuff. Dante himself said that for the first one hundred and fifty years of Italian literature, whoever wrote this poetry wrote it Intoicilian, not even even those who were not Sicilian.
Because at the court of Frederick the Second he had people from different parts of Italy, and so they actually wrote it Intoicilian, and in doing that they created the canon of the Italian language, the canon which then moved up north. It moved up north after Frederic the Second in twelve fifth he died in twelve fifty, and then it moved up to Florence, where Florence became more
important because of Dante Petrarch Boccaccio, who actually used Florentine. But the one thing about Sicilian is that you know what happens when when somebody falls from grace, when somebody's power is no longer able to be exercised, what happens to his influence? It dies, so that basically all the all the I'll give you one thing and then we can go on for everything. But all the poetry written in Sicilian disappeared. In the original Sicilian disappeared, and it was
preserved in sort of a Florentine translation. So all that we have of the original Sicilian poetry was maybe one or two parts. All the others are basically Florentine amanuensis. People who write from the copiers, people who copied the Sicilian text didn't understand it or adapted it and change the endings and change words, substitute the other thing, and so that Sicilian was turned into a kind of a big Florentine, so that we don't know what Sicilian language was exactly then,
because we have nothing left. But of course we can reconstruct. We can reconstructed. In fact, I did one thing recently. I translated a few a few parts by the man who invented the sonor do you know who? That was? Not Shakespeare, Not Shakespeare, although he sent many of his plays in in in a couple in Sicily as well too, all those right, right, yeah, yes, but he didn't invent so Jacobo Dalentini invented sonet. Okay, and it basically came it wasn't it comb belated?
And you know, the typical Italian Sicilian uh composition is made of eight lines of poetry. When you add six more lines of poetry get a sonet. So Jacobo Valentini invented the sonnet, Professor. I think it's a perfect segue because one of the recurring themes that we're hearing here is the mixing, okay, from from different cultures that came not only as you said, not only
culture, not only conquered, but assimilated. Um. So it begs the question, then what is and you mentioned the word ethos, what is the Sicilian ethos? What is the Sicilian? Are they Italian? Are they their own? Are they a hybrid? What would you day? Then? What is the make up? What makes a Sicilian? Well, that is not a very easy question to answer. And I sent you a copy of my little book What makes a Sicilian? And I'm sure you read it. You
know that that is not a very easy thing. I cannot give you one simple answer to the Sicilians are very complex people that whenever you think that you have found the key to understanding what they're made of, then something else comes up and the key doesn't work anymore. So basically Sicilians are have something that
they share with other Sicilians. Sicilian Sicilians, you can recognize Sicilian. In fact, there was some of the people who came to Sicily, like, for example, uh, some French writers, for example, came to Sicily and said, there is nothing more different from a Neopolsian than a Sicilian, because well, and you can see, you can see, you can see
the way they do it. And then he goes on to do I actually say, some of the things that make made it for him, made the distinction for him, in the sense that he said, when you cross the strait of Messina, the first thing that you hear is a timber of the of the voice, the kind of orientalized uh down an eastern field to it. Yes, particularly in the east. Absolutely. So basically Sicilians are very complex and very how would I say, very very difficult people to understand.
However, you know, you know that they love certain things and they hate other things. They love to they love their family. Their family is the center of the universe. They love their mothers, mothers or the center of the universe. You know, you think of Sicily the patriarchal patriarchal society. But the but the father has what we say a typical Uh, the real
power is in a woman. Women are the ones who make the glue that holds together families in Sicily, so that it's very important for and they are the ones who actually administer and create the kind of ethos where things you have to observe certain rules and you have to behave in a certain way in order not to lose face. Sicilians do not like to uh make a bad showing a thing. The term of fighting at la figura to show a good cud of beautiful figure. Yes, it's good figure. It is a very important
thing. Wow. We have a saying that if you lose your reputation, you're damned to hell. In effect, I have some quotes. Well you've you've read somewhere, you know I have I have to excuse, just forgive me. I have to move it alhile, I'm kind of keeping my eye on the time. Um, and I'm going to take a quick break. But when we come back and we're mentioning that as a Sicilian head, the ethos uh. And unfortunately in this country it's often stereotypical and not in a
complimentary sense. I think that the perpetuation of the image of the gangster, of the mafia, et cetera. I want to talk a little bit about how that seat its way into the Sicilian mindset and in particular what other people think of Sicilians and also sometimes and I don't know if you've experienced it,
but I would like to get your take on it. I have to honestly say, there have been times where I've noticed some bigotry, even from other Italians, your proximity to Africa, the fact that you've been conquered by arrows this and that. I'll give you the opportunity to address that because I think it's important. I've heard it, I've felt the sting, so I think
it's an honest question that we can have appreciate the Professor. We're going to come back in just a minute where our show tonight is everything you thought about about Sicily and Sicilians. But we're afraid to ask your being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host. Frank Labono will be right back after these brief commercial messages. Hudson River Radio dot Com bring a dash of green into your life. Check out The Many Shades of Green
with Max Seen, Margot Reuben, and Malcolm Berman. Get informed about environmental issues and current events that affect us all. Pick a shade of green and raise your eco consciousness with the Many Shades of Green. Available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts Hudson River Radio dot com. Be sure to check out Hudson River Radio's limited series podcast Live from Electric Lady Studios, featuring bands like Foreigner, George Thurgood and the Destroyers,
and Alice Cooper. Live from Electric Lady Studios was produced in the nineteen nineties by Electric Lady for WNWFM in New York City and was hosted by legendary DJ Pat Saint John. It featured a different band each time and was recorded live with a small in studio audience. Check out Live from Electric Lady Studios on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your guests Hudson River Radio dot com. Welcome back to Being Frank. We're the only way to
be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebrono. It's the Intelligent Conversation podcast Remember we stream from Hudson River Radio dot com, but you can check us also out wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and at any time you choose to listen to it. Everything is archived so you can catch it at your convenience and Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and all podcasting platforms. Thank you so much for joining us my guest tonight as we discuss everything you want
to know about Sicily and Sicilians, what we're afraid to ask. It's Gitano Chipalahi's professor emeritus at Saint John's University in one of the foremost authorities on Sicilian culture. Professor, welcome back again. We're doing the truncated version again. Trying to try to capture three thousand years of a very very involved history in
just an hour's period of time is difficult to do. But one of the things I do want to address, and we teased it a little bit before the commercials, is even I have being a Siciliani and share a certain kindred spirit and know the strength that lies within the Sicilian culture, but not everybody feels the same way. Often the image projected of Sicilians is not the best, often associated with gangsters. Of course, because of the mafia influence in
Sicilian culture. How did that happen? How strong is it? What people what should people really know about Sicily, Sicilians and the mafia once and for all. Well, that's a very difficult question to answer. I can tell you that recently they captured another godfather and who had been hiding in for years when hiding in plainside. So obviously that is a problem. But I can tell you that it is a problem that UH is a small problem in terms
of the importance of Sicilian life. I always think of it as something that people have to live with. But I find that focusing on the mafia UH
is really like missing the point. You missed the point because in effect Sicilian people have been maligned for ages, especially especially in this country, not based on nothing, based on nothing, because the people, every everyone who has gone to Sicily from Jubay, an Arabic traveler of the eleventh century eleven twelfth century, said Sicily was a paradise and the people are extremely generous, welcoming
they have they really do not deserve to be associated with the mafia. So the mafia is like a disease that somehow has affected us as I said, basically, it has affected us to the point that whenever I meet a Sicilian. Whenever I meet a Sicilian, the first thing they tell me is, Professor, I am proud of being Sicilian. I am so proud of being Sicilian. I didn't ask him, I don't I didn't ask them to volunteer
that information. And I have never heard a person from another part of Italy come up to me and say, I am proud of the Bolognese, I am proud of a Venetian, I am proud of being Roman. Why not? Why not? Because what they are doing, they are basically telling me that all the people, all the stuff that is being said about Sicily is a lie. I am proud of being Sicilian. And they tell me that.
They tell me that without my asking. They other people have no no, no desire, or no need to come up and say that they want to put the lie to what the media have spread all over the place, all these movies about the mafia, all god others, Godfathers and Babolinos and all the other stuff. At one time in I have an issue. I had an issue with the New York Times once because one time they published an article which basically said that ten percent of the Sicilian population lives on the mafia.
Now, ten percent of the Sicilian population living on the mafia means that there are five hundred, five hundred thousand people who are employed and making a living on the mafia. That means one one tenth, one tenth of Sicilian population. So if you happen to be in a crowd of Sicilian, one out of those ten people would probably be a mafioso. That's garbage, that's
absolutely but it persists. That's what people when they hear my name and I said, I'll say, oh, well, I'm a proud Sicilian, and immediate as particularly Americans, well well well well, and even people who are Italians Italian themselves will do that. The people who came to this country were obviously people who didn't have much of an education. They didn't know how to read or right in most cases, they certainly didn't know anything about Sicily.
They didn't know they lived. They were born in one town, they lived in that town until they died, and if and they emigrated to to to the United States only to escape poverty. And then what happened after after Sicily
became part of Italy. Right now, I am going to be publishing a book by a man named that Panel, who is a Sicilianist, who was a Sicilian he just passed away, who tells the story of of how Sicily be came a colony, when Garibaldi came to invade it and conquer it and handed to Victor Emmanuel second Piedmont. So I am the book is going to be told from the Sicilian point of view, and so that because people sometimes the people. History sometimes written by people who win, victors win, and
they tell stories. So this book is going to be telling the story of how things went when Sicily, when a thousand people, a thousand soldiers that came to Sicily, which had an army of of twenty five thousand people, well armed and well trained, and were defeated by one thousand people. So it happened because it was betrayals left and right, Because the British, for example, enjoyed the idea of having a one country one Easily that involved also
Sicily, so that they would somehow counter the influence of the French. So all kinds of things that happened. In any case, the mafia is was a blight on Sicily. But but it's it's a very small part of that quickly, professor, we don't have a lot of time. But again, it to me, it's a matter of curiosity. How did it originally insert itself into Sicilian culture? Can you help us with that at all? How did it? Where did it come from? What are the roots? If
you will? Well, again, there are many different theories about it. But basically, when you have when you have a state that does not do its function, a state that does not behave that that not control and app apply the laws that are written in the book. So when there is an total absence of a state, of a state uh state that where you can go to to right wrongs, then it creates a kind of a vacuum, the vacuum of power. And that vacuum of power, especially in the late
nineteenth century, was was filmed by brokers. Power brokers who worked for for the landed gentry in Sicily, who who owned thousands of acres of land and spent their times sitting around in Pallezma rather than being on the land. And they assigned the running of the of these lands to what they're called the gabel other people, the powerbrokers tenant farmers who would hire people fire people, and they were basically the ones to even exercise what they called their own form of
justice. So that basically there was a vacuum of power and the state was absent. In the absence of the state, all kinds of people took advantage of it by creating their own laws, and so they had the people. You know these Gabe Lotty walked around on horseback with shotguns on their back and so the powers. But that's that's basically uh let's let's say that was the
rural mafia. Of course today we don't have a rule. We have a civil mafia where power is shared with poli politicians and with other people who hold the power, so that there's always a connection between the power structure of people who are elected. The politicians basically incos with um with the mafia. I mean, we've seen we saw in the last fifty years, we have seen that documented where politicians were always in the hoots with the mafia and did their
bidding to get votes and to get themselves reelected. And so it's a very complex thing. But again that does not that should not be should not it should not have detracted They should not qualify. They should not qualify a Sicily. I'm I'm a Sicilian. I never heard about the mafia until I came to the Since the people and I look at them, I don't know what you're talking. I lived in eighteen years was the first eighteen years of my life. When I came to this country, I learned about the mafia.
The mafia from amazing. Well, you know, professor, your work and I want you to talk a little bit about it. Your work is to spell those stereotypes I wanted. I can add one more thing. The Mafia was reinstalled installed in Sicily, presumably after Mussolini had done away with it.
He didn't really do that. It remained hidden someplace, but it was reinstalled by the American Army who brought who used Lucky Neu channel to help him UH do the UH the invasion of Sicily, so that people who were in the mafia, who were say power brokers, became mayors of a town thanks to the help that they provided to Sicily. But what are you going? What
are you going to do it? It's a very complex thing. That's not a pleasant thing, not a pleasant We're going to accentuate the positive with your work, tell us a little bit about about your work, what you what you hope to accomplish. And I also know you have a poem in the Sicilian language that we'd love to have you read. Well. Basically, I
have founded three three series of books. One is called Waited that Persicula poets about Persecula, and we have seventeen different volumes in that with my translation. And the second series is called Sicilian Studies, which has like thirty volumes dealing also with Sicilian culture, Sicilian histories, sociology, etc. The poems, the poems, I mean, the poet series has seventeen different volumes of the major poets, ancient as well as modern. So I've done translations of Giovanni
Meli. Giovanni Meli was the most important poet of the eighteenth century. I have translated most of his work into English. I have translated some works of Antonio Velzziano, who was the most famous and the most gifted poet of Sicily in the Renaissance. He was so great that whenever you read, whenever people read a poem of his that didn't know who had written a poem, they assumed that it was written by him. Antonio Velzziano, remember that name.
He's really unimportant, fellow. I've translated Martolio anyway, I've translated lots of people. One person. Maybe I can read you one poem which is which is basically like the national anthem of of our organization LA and it was written by a man named in Nazi Bo who that's the way about twelve years ago. Uh. That says basically that when people lose their language that was learned by them from birth, then they become enslaved. They become poor and enslaved
when they lose their language. And so for us, for Arbasicula, whose ideal, whose objective is basically the preservation of the Sicilian language, he became a poet like it's called lingua. I'll read you the Sicilian and i'll read you the English. Well, I hope you have time, if not, place your wealth time right, Yes you can edited. I'm getting an eye
from the early engineer. We have some time, please do so. Linga um popolotocatap cora libero levativague who support to who led to oran cora ri um popolo devend povero servo robinuling a pursuit precent deveendo iparoli, non figure, no allies man don area, bengia, cordaiara to dialect to capa. Then she repects atilla kittie as suni parvaro. Are you idinari and spend and who can
um parvarota? They mean shippia, figure vinchuria nuachimachi. The larbaro mean aunt or chess put never sto aka, then an alabasha who saw no kiss there's a store as would be answer natura e lamp in the lot kiss se non nippon ubi, non nippon ubari bars poverty or funny. I have time to read the translation. I guess I should, because the yeah says we can. So let's do it all right. Language and dialect. People put them in chains. Take away their possessions, plug their mouths. They are still
free. Take away their jobs, their passports, the table where they eat. They are still rich. People become poor and enslaved when you rob them of the language inherited from the fathers. They are lost forever. They become poor and enslaved when words do not give birth and devour one another. I realize this now as I tune the guitar of my dialect that loses a chord every day while I mend the moth eaten cloth that our ancestors woe with wool of Sicilian sheep. And I am poor. I have money, but I
cannot spend it. I have jewels and I can can't give them away. A song inside a cage with clipped wings, A poor man who the dry tits of a would be mother who calls him son as an insult. We had a mother. Once they robbed us of her. She had breasts like fountains of milk, and everyone drank from her. Now they spit at her. Her voice has remained in us, her cadence, the low note of the sound, and the lament. They cannot take these things from us.
Her resemblance has remained, her way of to walk, her gestures, the flashing eyes. They cannot take these things from us. They cannot take them from us, But we remain poor an orphans just the same. Wowkay Bella, that's Emili, Thank you so much. I'm glad we were able to fit them to do it. I wasn't rumbling too much. Very powerful,
no good, good, good stuff. We appreciate it. We'd like to thank our guests, Professor Gaetano Chipa for Being Frank and for his intelligent conversation, and of course special thanks to our listeners who take the time to give us a voice in their lives. Remember we offer a fresh topic every week and you can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts like Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Spreaker and more. You can also check us out
on the Being Frank Facebook page. Let me leave you with a couple less nuggets. I mentioned Shakespeare, who sent many of his plays they think about eighteen of them in Italy and a couple in particular in Sicily. And this is one of the things he said. The climate delicate, the air, most sweet, fertile, the aisle, the temple, much surpassing the common praise it bears. That's Shakespeare. Good stuff. I'll leave your quoth with
some original music. Remember we close every show with some original music. It's always good stuff with some great artists. This week we have Laura Lee Hubbard and her song let Love. Thanks everybody, I'm your host, Frank Lebono, and we'll see you on the next Being Frank. She should go to be or sit around to get sick, sad and feeling down. No sichrenessity of life, good fortune smiles, You're gonna dance, gree move, flow, give it up. A moron and feeling low. We have accid in
life. I own my desty and the love will guide me, cast, love inspires me, Love will brag away through. Choose to wait for a miracle. You might choose to look for a savior. You might work divine intervention and miss your own line. Don't be shocked or bewildered. Don't clean my cornis fortune for your saddest study. You live your dreams. Goga and let love guide you. Let inspire you may come, Yeah, guide you. Let's been spire you, Let go, they go where godspe well back.
Let's be. Let love let away through for you go to be down, go to be, flow me away, let love run away, Go to be and don't sit a running it safe, f into me. Let go la la lave sweet make away. This is Hudson River Radio dot com