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Being Frank.
Fright were the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to Being Frank, where the only way to be is well Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono, and I'd like to thank you for joining us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where no conversations out of bounds and all points of view are welcome. Regular listeners to our program know that we record live to tape and I give you the date it is the twenty first of January. That gives you a little
context and relevance. And we see the images almost every day an obviously deranged person committing an act of disturbing and random violence. In fact, I just saw such a report on the TV news this morning, and they seem to be unfortunately increasing in violence. Also important to make this point here that although most don't resort to extreme violence, it is still widely estimated that fourteen million Americans suffer
from a serious mental health disorder. We repeatedly claim this issue is one of the driving forces behind many of society's problems today, and we need more mental health access for everyone, but nothing seems to be getting done to improve the situation. It appears that we would rather not deal with the reality that mental illness plays in the
lives of so many American families. That is until filmmaker Gail Friedman made No One Cares About Crazy People, a powerful and deeply human documentary that confronts one of the most urgent, yet overlooked crises of our time, the reality of living with severe mental illness in America. At its core, as a moving portrait of families navigating unimaginable challenges as
they fight for care, dignity, and understanding. Through fearless storytelling and remarkable access, the film illuminates the lives of individuals too often ignored or misunderstood, offering a rare combination of artific integrity, emotional depth, and social urgency. Critically insightful and deeply compassionate, No One Cares About Crazy People invites viewers to reckon with stigma, confront structural failures, and reimagine what
a human mental health system could look like. Bold, timely, and unforgettable, it stands as a testament to the power of a documentary film to illuminate, challenge and inspire change. I took that, by the way, from the press kit for the film, so very well written. The film is being presented by a Rivertown Film at the Niac Center on Wednesday, January twenty eighth at eight pm. There will be a discussion to follow with our guests, who we
will meet shortly. Is also being brought in addition to Rivertown Film and the Nyack Center by the Greater Mental Health of New York and joining us now for some intelligent conversation are three wonderful representatives from each and again please take note these are very abbreviated bios just to
save some time. So first up as producer, writer, director of the film, Gail Friedman, a one time expiring concert pianist, Gail abandoned the stage for the screen many years ago, with brief stops in academia, government and healthcare along the way. It hasn't exactly been a planned migration, but in twenty five years and as Award Women went on excuse me. An award winning filmmaker. She has produced, directed, and written
dozens of documentaries on a wide range of subjects. She has also taught at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. Her creative output encompasses independent projects as well as extensive work for PBS network, television, cable syndication, and the Internet, along with educational and nonprofit films. Welcome Gail, thank you. Okay, we'll continue with our panels and then we'll get into our discussion. Next up. Alissa Schmidt is a licensed mental
health counselor in the state of New York. For the last thirteen years, she has been working at Greater Mental Health of New York, a not for profit organization providing an array of mental health, substance use, case management, and other support services to individuals in Rockland and Westchester Counties. As Vice President of Mobile Support Services, Alissa oversees several
programs designed to meet individuals where they are at. These services work with individuals in the community, in their homes wherever they spend their time to recover their goals. Alissa, thank you so much for joining us. Hither okay. Next up from Rivertown and one of the hosts of the movie is Verra Erno Vera is an award winning documentary filmmaker who began her career work on Joseph Campbell and
The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers for PBS. She's also known in Rockland County for her work on Mega Mall, the feature documentary film that tells the story of Rockland's Palisades Center Mall. She co produced Backpack Full of Cash, The Real Cost at Privatizing America's Public Schools, narrated by Matt Damon, and is currently developing a follow up film
on the subject of school vouchers. In twenty seventeen, Narroneau joined the board of Rivertown Film, Rockland's only not for profit dedicated to the art of motion pictures, and in twenty twenty six she became the organization's co executive director. Welcome Verra, Thank you, Welcome ladies, Thank you so much. I know it's a busy time for you organizing the film, and obviously you all have other projects going on as well,
so I really appreciate you taking the time. You know, maybe we should start with kind of a broad thing and then will narrow down our questioning. So let's start with you, Gail, please, if you would, and I gave a brief introduction, but give us a little bit more detail, give us a synopsis of the film what will We Say?
Well, the film kind of had a three pronged origin, which speaks to how it evolved. It was inspired by a book of the same name, No One Cares About Crazy People, by an extraordinary author named Ron Powers. If your viewers are and your listeners are interested in the subject, I highly recommend Ron's book. It's brilliant. And Ron is a Pulitzer Emmy winning New York Times best selling writer.
This was not a subject he ever expected to tackle until both of his sons were diagnosed with schizophrenia, and his younger son, who was a musical prodigy, took his own life a week before his twenty first birthday in the family home. And so Ron, having never really expected to write about this subject some years later, felt compelled
to tackle it. And the book is a kind of a hybrid narrative of family memoir and deeply researched reportage about the mental health system or non system, going back centuries really, but particularly looking at the last fifty sixty years in American life. So and I knew Ron when I was a baby in the business at CBS News many years ago, and Ron was already a well established
journalist and author. We met and became friends, and then he and his family moved off to Vermont and we had lost touch over the years, and then I came across his book and did not know what had happened to his family and could immediately see that there was sort of the spine of film there and so that was the first impetus for doing this. Also, early in my career, i'd been a medical reporter, so I always say that I know just enough to be every doctor's nightmare.
So that was something else that I brought to the table. And my own mother lived with borderline personality disorder, so like so many people who are in this space, I brought that lived experience to it. So it was kind of the perfect storm, if you will. And so that's where it began with Ron's family story and the kind
of the sociological work behind it. But then as I dug in, I became really interested in the whole dynamic of family involvement, because mental illness is a full family disorder, as we often say, so that began to really interest me.
And there's been the emerging of a family advocacy movement, which it took five years to make this film, and over that time, this family movement was really sort of gaining momentum and breaking through in many ways and leading to you said that nothing that things have only seemed to get worse, But in point of fact, there is
a lot of movement to make things better. And so we tracked a lot of particularly in California, although the movement is across the country, but we did a lot of our attention was focused in California, both because we had a couple of personal stories that we were following in real time there, and also because this movement was in many ways that its greatest devolution to date there, and so I think I think we're so it was
kind of a dual endeavor. I wanted to really put a very human face on the reality of serious mental illness. I think so many of us you mentioned walking out on seeing deranged people, you know, depending particularly in New York, if you're on the subways, on the.
Streets, the image that we seems to be most common. Then again, associated I'm going to bring a lesson in and talk more about that it means interrupt but again that unfortunately that's the image that we.
Have, but we need to look past that image, and we're going to get that. And I think making this film changed me and the way I see people, and I hope that, in point of fact, that we can try to do that for others as well. So I wanted, on the one hand, to humanize people and in their own voices and center them in their own stories, but also wanted to have alongside this intimacy and this very personal narrative something that was systemic, something that really looked
at why are these systems so broken? How did we get to this point, and what is the way forward? Because I wanted I wanted to end on a note of hope. I didn't want to just end on a note of doom and gloom. So that, in a nutshell, was kind of what I was aiming at. That answers your question.
It certainly does, and we're going to develop that as we go further. I want to talk and obviously some of the challenges associated with telling such an intimate and personal story, but I think it's a good time to bring in a listen. Now some of the things that we've covered in the names we mentioned, for example, the stigma that's often associated with mental illness, the image that again we were talking about that seems to be foremost in people's minds instead of the reality. So let's bring
you in again. What is the definition of mental illness? You know, there's a depression, and everybody experiences depression, and I think people unders have to understand part of the human experience is is that okay? But that doesn't necessarily define it as mental illness. So in your world from great mental health, how would we define something as, especially something like when we're talking about severe mental illness?
Sure, absolutely so mental illness.
I mean, as you mentioned, it is a spectrum, right, So even folks that carry those diagnoses of schizophrenia, schizoepfective disorder up until your anxiety and your depression, which are much more sort of common or you know daily, Right, everybody's going to fall somewhere along the severity of those. So we have folks who are severely anxious, and we have folks who get by on a daily basis with mild, moderate, or no treatment whatsoever. The same goes for our folks
with anything from dipolar disorder to schizophrenia. Right, everybody's in their own unique experiences and they're having their own their own reality in what they're experiencing considering their mental illness. Now, if you want to go buy the book diagnostically, you have to meet certain criteria to come eligible to carry this label that we call it, right, this diagnosis of
any of those disorders that I mentioned before. But again, I really want to hammer in the point that there's such an array of experiences that this by and large, this this vision that we see of the individual on the street that's dangerous and really talking to themselves in the corner, right, that is the minority of individuals experiencing
mental illness. There is so many people that you know in your personal life that may be also, you know, dealing with something that you have no idea about, and they may be receiving their own treatment or not for something that we would consider a mental illness.
Okay, I mentioned the word stigma, the stigma stigmatizing of mental illness, and it's strange to me. First of all, the overall health care you know where teeth, eyes, and mental health is different than health Why that's that's topic we can get to a little bit later when we
talk about the system. It's just odd to me, uh uh, dealing with it with the stigma and overcoming that that, uh, how why In other words, we wouldn't necessarily make if you have kidney disease or heart disease, we've seen we tend to look at it with more feet in those situations, and yet lack when someone is really struggling beyond their controlers. And I want people to say, you know, I think
people often associate it's their fault. They want to be that way, and I think that's an important distinction to make that they need help, and we wouldn't make We don't make fun of other people that make help, that need help, forgive me, Yet we stigmatize people from from a mental standpoint, if they seek out help, if they need help, both all of us can address that. Why don't you start with us?
Yeah?
No, absolutely, I mean I think by and large, you know, Frank, just to mention, I don't think there's any one of us that would willingly ask to be diagnosed with schizophrenia or experience the signs and symptoms that come with bipolar disorder.
Right.
So, one of those things that I hear all the time is why can't they just fix themselves or you know, just do this and they'll feel better. It's just not as simple of that, and we know that those of us in the field, we know that there's just an incredible array of experiences and different treatments and experiences that can help individuals. But I I think the stigma goes
a really long way back. Not to get too clinical here, but we can go back to the witching ages where women with hysterica hysteria excuse me, we're looked at with with you know, really critical eyes and we're locked up and you know, maybe even burned at the stake. These
are medical diagnoses. These are issues with brain chemistry. These are chemistry in our body going on that are affecting individuals in their day to day lifestyles, and we just continue to look at it as something completely separate from like we would you know, mentioned diabetes or kidney disease.
Like you said, I do think a large part of that also plays into the media or portrayal that we have shown individuals with mental illness and how we have shown the communities and society what that looks like, at least through this particular lens. But we really are working to move that needle, as Gail was saying earlier, to really you know, make the progress look at whole person care.
If somebody's experiencing mental illness, what are the chances that we can treat it very similarly or look at it through the same holistic lens as we would as somebody with a medical issue.
And you mentioned the lens of bring Viera in a little bit and see what role organizations like Rivertown play in disseminating that information. But I also want to get Gail back in here too. As a filmmaker, how did you deal with with with that as an issue, what Elyssa was just talking about, and as we met the stigma, the need to find health. Where as a filmmaker, how did you deal with that?
One thing I'd say, because that just circles back to something you mentioned before. Mental health care is healthcare, and I think we need to make sure that people understand that because a lot of times not to be a total policy geek, but you know, there is not equity,
there's not parody people. And I think calling it behavioral health sometimes can be counterproductive because it sort of reinforces that notion that it's willful and that people have the power to just you know, vanquish their own disorder, and you know, and I think that a lot of the stigma, as Alyssa was just saying, goes back centuries and is based in fear in large part, and what people fear and they don't understand, they tend to look away from.
They'd rather ignore it. The title no One Cares About Crazy People, as we explained in the first minute of the film, is a quote from a politician who was addressing a scandalous situation in his own community and basically was saying to the boss, who was worried about electoral kickback, don't worry about it, because no one cares about crazy people. And so our mission was both to show that a lot of people do care, in point of fact, that
that's not correct to say no one cares. A lot of people do care, and that we all can care understand. Care begins with understanding. Changing the system begins with understanding.
And so my mission was again to try to get as much access as I could and to show a small series of compelling, intimate stories where you felt like you got to know people who are living, who are struggling with these disorders that they didn't ask for, and to see them in their full humanity, so that your empathy was aroused instead of judgment or derision or any of the other patapley of reactions that one might have.
And so that's what we did. We followed a small sample of individuals and families around the country over several years as their stories were unfolding, not knowing where that was going to go in each case. And much of Ron Power's family story is in the past, but that's also told in the film. And we spent a lot of time and people said, was that uncomfortable? Did you encounter hostility?
No?
It wasn't uncomfortable. It was intense, it was powerful. It was moving for me too, But I felt honored and privileged.
First of all, the people wanted to tell their stories, and you know, I think most of us want to be seen, we want to be heard, we want the chance to be evaluated on our own terms, and so I was gratified that people wanted to do that, and I was consistently blown away by these family members who and our film really does look at the most severe end of the spectrum, and as Alyssa said, there's a
whole spectrum, and we're all on that spectrum somewhere. But we were really looking at the most severe end of it, because those people who often get short shrift. I think, you know, COVID brought mental health struggles to people's awareness, perhaps as nothing before, but for people with the most severe disorders, they were kind of left out of the mix before COVID, and to a large degree they still are. So but these families don't give up, and that just
consistently blew me away. I don't know if I could do what they do. Their love, their dedication, their grit is just extraordinary, and so often they get blamed along with the person who has the disorder. You'll consistently hear where was the family, Why didn't they take this person? Why didn't they take care of this? And then you find out that a point of fact, they've been trying, in many cases for years to do everything they can,
and the system has literally shut them out at many points. So, you know, it was that making the film, it grew tentacles. I never originally intended it for to have, but they ended up feeling necessary if we were going to kind of give a sort of a well rounded view of where we are, how we got there, where can we go?
Of course, that brings up a lot more questions and hopefully we'll get to this is great that we can do a few hours, Gus, I can tell already I want to bring Vera Arnow from Rivertown Film and talk a little bit about First of all, give us a little bit of an overview of Rivertown, what you guys are about. Then from there, why films like this fit
with it? And forgive me a raise on detra if you will put that together for us, If you would first a little bit about Rivertown, and then why you choose films like this and why you chose this particular film for show.
Sure, thank you. Rivertown Film is an arts nonprofit based here in Rockland County. This year we're entering our twenty fifth year of existence, which is quite an accomplishment for a small group like hours. And we got started two thousand and one with the mission of celebrating the art of motion pictures. We show about two screenings a month, about twenty films a year, and they're independent, foreign or documentary films, basically things you won't see at the multiplex.
And in each program now is a company. Each screening is accompanied by some kind of Q and a after the film to deepen the experience for the viewer, and it's either often the filmmaker. We bring a whole array of famous, not so famous, local, not so local filmmakers into our community, and if that's not possible, we reach out to people with an expertise in the subject matter or the country where the film is from, or just something too. As I said, deep in the experience of the film.
So we have a.
Curious audience and audience that's curious about the world and about issues issues, important issues like this one of the issues of severe mental illness that lives on our streets, in our lives, and this is a great opportunity to have people come in share an experience of watching the film,
have a common base of knowledge. And then we're so grateful to Alissa and Gale for being there because it inevitably prompts questions both about the filmmaking process because people are interested in the art and people love documentaries, and also about mental illness, about their personal experience or something that's happening here, or policy or all kinds of things.
That's why we're excited to be showing this film. It came to our attention through I think someone who knows, Gail, and we have a committee, a programming a committee that looks at different projects and makes a schedule of different things, so it's not always the same same thing we're watching, and we decided it would be great to go forward with us, so we're pleased to be showing it at the NAIAC Center on January twenty eighth. I got that right, twenty fifth, Sorry, twenty eight.
Yes, we have more. Yes, we're taking on Wednesday the twenty first, And I always have to give the date because our shows are archived and if people are watching it's Wednesday the twentieth. Then we'll talk about that in more detail and how people can get tickets and all that stuff. We'll have time for that after the break. But you know, obviously, and obviously Gail, you've seen the film. Well, you guys have seen the film. I've watched some clip,
but I haven't seen the entire film. I'd like to know how is it affected you, both personally and professionally? And Lissa, why don't we start with you and do a little roundtable. How did it affect you? Is both in both ways to change you at all? Professionally and how so personally? After Sue.
I mean, I think I live this.
I work this every day, right, coming from the mental health sector, so I hear these stories. You have no idea how dreaming and you know profound it can be to sit with these people in front of you and have them share their stories, have them share their experiences. I'm sure Gail will speak about that experience just creating this film. So I don't know, you know, Unfortunately, I wasn't surprised or shocked by.
Anything that I saw in the film, right, But I come from this world.
I think there's so many people out there that would be very surprised and shocked by the content of this film. And that's I think why we're really trying to put it out there. And I say we like I was involved in the production, but I'm sure that was part of the process for Gail, right, So I don't know, you know, it just it really honed in on the work that I do every day, the importance of portraying these individuals with these experiences in a really accurate, really
empathetic way. As we were kind of saying before, Personally, I have my own experiences with family members and friends who have their own experiences. I think at this point it would be fair to say you're not going to meet anybody who's not touched by someone with a mental
disorder in their lives. And so I think just seeing the profound creation of their stories in this film just really bringing it to light the importance of sort of focusing on this population and how can we change what we're doing and do better for those individuals.
I want to go to Vera next Gale. I'm going to let you finish up. But I think you also have a very unique perspective, as you're not a healthcare professional like Welyssa. You are a filmmaker, but you didn't make this film, this particular film, so I think you might have a unique perspective. How did what did you change or change your mind if you will, both pet professional and personally in what way?
Well, I think it was an unusually deep opportunity to live life a little bit with the families that were coping with the mental illness. So I would say it deepened my understanding of that, and I expect it will do that for a lot of people. And it made me curious about the solutions and the resources here in Rockland and around the country. It made me want to know more about that. So this is a perfect forum to have some of those questions answered. And it seems very timely.
Certainly, Kail, you obviously spent five years, at least five years of your life intimately involved with this over the course of that time, and you've mentioned you've hinted at it. It gives a little more detail. How did it really change you?
Well, I always, I mean, I think to do this work you have to be pretty obsessive, compulsive.
So I hear you like podcasting, but I was with DBS two as well. We'll talk about that later, please.
So you know, you've become completely immersed, and I've had several people ask me was it overwhelming at times? Was it so upsetting? How did you cope with that? And I think in some ways it's not unlike I mean, Alissa probably could speak to this too. It's not unlike being a medical professional where it's not that you leave your feelings at the door, but some part of you goes into a zone, into a mode where you can't
be effective if you can't do the work. So I think that Gene, if you will, which I've been doing this for a long time, kind of took over. But there certainly were moments and my wonderful film editor Juvia knows Dina Pataki and Dina will be at the screening and also in the present for the audience talk back afterwards.
And there were times where we were in the edit room, which we were for, you know, months, at a stretch, where we would watch some scene that I chot and I've done the interview that we pops had watched dozens of times. But it would suddenly it would get to me in a certain way, and I would become overwhelmed with emotion. And I never want to lose that, you know, just as I think as a medical professional or a social work professional or any kind of clinician, you don't
want to lose that human connection to the subject. So I don't know that it. I think it changed my awareness. I think certainly my approach and my grasp of policy solutions evolved, and without getting too wonky and down in the weeds. You know, I'm a left leaning progressive and if you had asked me at the beginning of this process if I thought there was ever a role for involuntary care, I probably would have said no. Right, I
was a card carry member of the ACLU. I'd worked on a whole documentary series years ago about people living with all kinds of disabilities. But in point of fact, I think that we need a much more nuanced kind of conversation because sometimes there are people and it's a feature of the illness. There is this unpronounceable word derived from the Greek called anasygnosia, and it literally translates as
lack of insight. And for a small percentage it's not a lot of people, but for a small percentage people who live with disorders like schizophrenia, a feature of their disease is that they don't know they have it. It's not denial, it's not a refusal to acknowledge something. It's literally a feature of the disease that they don't know that they have an illness. And why would you go into treatment if for something that you don't know that you have, especially when the treatment is not a free ride.
These meds have side effects. Treatment can be traumatizing, and so there are times I think when it is not
humane to let someone remain untreated. If you know, as one of the mother advocates in the films, that what is civil or right about leaving someone to starve because their voices are telling them that they can't eat, or to sleep in their own feces on the street, or to be locked in solitary confinement because they've been arrested for some crime they didn't even understand that they were committed.
So maybe there are times when we need just like these illnesses exist on a spectrum, I think treatment needs
to exist on a spectrum. So my understanding about all that absolutely did evolve over the course of making this film, and I don't think I fully appreciated until way late in the process that that was in some ways controversial, and we ended up embracing that controversy and taking it on and basically hoping that the film does argue for a more nuanced kind of conversation and understanding that one size doesn't fit all and that comes and so that's the way it changed me.
I want to bring in Alyssa here in a minute, but I also want to bring out because it's such an important point. We had the mayor of Nayak, Joe rand was on a few weeks ago, and that was a big issue here, And you mentioned Nyak is a left leaning, progressive town. Let's admit it, let's call it for what it is. And xilis here because I have
to agree with that. And there was this huge controversy because there is an issue with people on the street here, most of them seem to have some type of mental issues, but it's associated with homeliness. So benches were removed in an effort to try to get people to take advantage of the warming centers that are provided. So it became and again it's a conversation. We can get to another hour for another day. But I hear you so completely that again, the spectrum of behavior needs a spectrum of
treatment to deal with it. It's kind of like not one size fits all. And maybe that's a good time to bring Alyssa in. Would you comment towards that. I think it's all relative.
Absolutely, I can't help but think of doctor Xavier Amateur's book, I'm not Sick.
I don't need help.
When we talk about antasignosia and the sort of inability to really understand what their own personal experiences are, it is a very real experience for some individuals. There's nothing wrong with me, you are perceiving is just me being me, right, and so that ability to understand or seek help, or be willingness.
To go seek help. Why would I seek help?
There's nothing wrong with me, right, And so I think we've swung the pendulum.
Thank goodness.
We are so far from the days of when we would just institutionalize our individuals at the first drop of a sign or a symptom of something going on with them.
Right.
That was the dark dark ages and mental health care.
But I think there's so much to be said for what Gail is saying that there is no nice neat.
Box that these individuals fall into as well, and.
There's times when individuals we need to look at the safety for everyone involved, most primarily the individual who's experiencing some of those issues that we talk about that we see on the streets of New York City, that we see in our town in Niak and figure out what's the best plan of action. Person centered care is so so incredibly important. We want to take the individual into
account first and foremost. But there are times when we are all not making the best decisions for ourselves, and what do we do to approach that situation as well?
And how do we get somebody to a point of recovery where they can voluntarily participate and come to understand and have insight. And that is possible. I'm sure Elissa sees it all the time.
Absolutely, recovery is not only possible, it's expected.
Right.
I was just going to ask you that, Yeah, it is recovery possible. Sometimes these things seem like there's no and these people are so seriously sick and I want to use that term, they're sick in not a derogatory sense. But so recovery is possible with the right treatment, etc.
Absolutely, and treatment. Again, there is no one.
Size fits all, right, So lots of people I constantly hear, why won't they just take their medications and fix it?
Right, it's happened.
There's this expectation there's some magic pill out there that's just going to up and fix all of the issues that you're experiencing.
And that's not the case either.
There's so many supports and services and different treatment modalities that come into play, and what worked for Joe may not work for Sally. And so we need to be creative, we need to be centered, unique in what we're doing with that individual. Look at them as an individual rather than a diagnosis or you know, a box that they're fitting into.
Bill. What message ultimately do you hope that the audience takes home with them from your film.
Well, part of what it is is what Alyssa just said, Actually that you know that there are this diagnosis encompasses a range of degrees and symptoms, and so do the treatment options need to I want them to see that people who live with mental illness, as one of the family members says in the film, are people they often had do have families who care about them, that although the suffering is very real, the solutions exist and if we as a society can find the will as we
have you know, it's movements have existed for aids for breast cancer. I mean, there have been any number of other disorders autism that have broken through in the public consciousness and where real change has taken place. And I think I think we are potentially at a tipping point when it comes to mental illness. I mean, despite the stigmatizing which we hear even from the White House on down, I think the reality is that that people are more
understanding young people. I also think that's something else that I think I hope people take away is that I think young people are much more open about these disorders, don't embrace that kind of stigma. And I think that they are our hope looking forward and may better be right because they are the future. But I think that you know there there is another other paths and other ways to go, and I don't you know, And recovery
is not the same as cure. I think for people who live with the most serious illnesses, they have to learn to manage these illnesses. But people live with diabetes, people nowadays live.
With answer, they live with heart.
Disease, and so can people live full and meaningful lives with mental illness. And what a waste of humanity not to embrace everything it takes to make that possible. So I guess that's what I hope people walk away with is just a greater understanding of what they see every day in the world around them in the news reports, and that they don't look away.
And we're going to talk about the future after the break, But one more question point to be made there. You know, what I see here and something that I'm impressed with is kind of a symbiotic relationship that has been created between yourself, your organization. Filmmaker Gail and Alyssa's organization and talk a little bit about how is a nonprofit. It's important to create those kinds of synergies where you together you can create a stronger message. Dress that a little bit if you.
Would, sure, thank you. This is a great conversation. I'm learning things that I hope come up in our conversation at the next center when we show the complete film. And again, that's one of the wonderful things about Rivertown is that it gives us this opportunity that gives everyone in the room this kind of opportunity. And I have to say, you know, one reason that we always partner with community organizations for every screening is a very practical
nuts and bolts. It brings more people into the room because we have greater mental health helping us publicize this event. Also should mention that Nammy of Rockland is partnering to help spread the word about about the event and has partnered, I understand many times with Gail about the showings of this film or other chapters of NAMI. So it helps us expand our audience and hopefully people who come to see this film will know learn about us and come
back to see other films. Or be curious, become members, and it just builds community connections the people in the room, and that's a big part of what Rivertown. What's special about Rivertown. We're not just showing movies. Everybody can watch them at home. So many times, it's really much more than that. And we find out so many times that our neighbors who might live across the street from us, we didn't know they have an expertise, they're an artist,
they're living with its kind of issue. It's just amazing what you find out at a Rivertown screen, not just from the film.
Guys are gonna take a little break. Don't go anywhere. You guys don't go I have you capped it for now, but certainly our listeners don't go anywhere yet. A wonderful conversation. I want to talk a little bit more about the film. We wanna talk a little bit more about the future. Okay. Special guests from Greater Mental Health is Alissa Schmidt from Rivertown. Film is Via Arno and the creator of the film
No One Cares About Crazy People. The topic of our conversation today is Gail Friedman wing back with all three of our ladies and just a few moments, this is Being Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono will be back with more intelligent conversation right after these brief commercial messages. Please don't go anywhere. This is great.
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Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation podcast. Thanks for sticking with us. I'm your hosts Frank Ubono and as always our engineer as the mailman, mister Neil Richter. We bring our audience a fresh topic every week and we stream from Hudson River Radio, located and beautiful and historic Stony Point, New York. But remember, you can catch Being Frank anywhere you get your favorite podcasts like Apple, Spotify,
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We're back with our very special program. We're discussing the film No One Cares About Crazy People in particular and mental health in general, with the creator of the film, producer, director, writer Gail Friedman, a representative from the Greater Mental Health of New York Elissa Schmidt, and from Rivertown Film hosts and sponsors of the program, Vera, Aaron Old ladies, welcome back.
Thank you so much. We had a wonderful first half of our program and lots more to talk about, not too much time, so let's get back into it, and again we can go around the table. Gail, why don't we start with you? What questions should people be asking after seeing this film?
Well, that's interesting. I mean I would say, far be it from me to tell people what to think, and I most often prefer to let my film speak for itself. But I hope that people will will ask what's going on in my community, you know, without getting too prescriptive, what can I do to make a difference? You know, that may be something really small, or it might be
something pretty major. But you know, I think one thing that I realized, and I think Alyssa mentioned this earlier in the show, is that there aren't six degrees of separation. There are probably zero degrees of separation. And I think every one of us, whether it's a relative, a neighbor, a coworker, or somebody who went to school with, we had someone in our life who is living with a
mental health struggle. And I hope that people can walk away more curious about understanding just this fundamental and incredibly prevalent aspect of human existence and just want to understand it more. I mean, you know, the reality is on. I didn't want this film to be medicine. I wanted people to feel like they were watching a film, not you know, getting a teachy preacher.
It's a challenge, yes, I hear it, who.
Lesson, which is why it was so important to have it be very intimate and it's very intense.
I mean, you don't want to be a lecture. It's not election exactly.
I wanted to feel like you were sort of in there and walk away wanting to know more. If people walk away with questions and don't feel like they've had every piece of information available in the universe thrown at them, then I'm happy. If people walk away wanting to know more, whatever their questions might be. You know, what are the best kinds of treatments available, what are the side effects of medications, what kind of research is being done, what
is my own community making available? Whatever occurs to them, then then I'm happy if they just walk out still thinking about this and talking about it.
Well, it's a perfect segue to you and your your facil your expertise. It's perfect segue.
Absolutely.
I mean my gut reaction is if I would love viewers to come out with how can I help?
And who can I help?
Right?
But I think that's probably very Pollyanna of me, and it's obviously very prescriptive of the work that I do every day. I think a film like this should spur and I hope it would spur some self reflection for the viewers as well. Right, Who have I interacted with that maybe I wasn't the kindest too.
Are there any things that I am doing?
Are there any biases that I have, whether consciously or unconsciously, that are furthering some of the stigma issues that we're seeing that are furthering some of the negative experiences that these folks who have these mental health conditions are experiencing. So I think something as profound as a film like this, if all it does is make you think about yourself for a couple of minutes.
I think it's a hit.
Via your thoughts.
Yeah, that's great, Well, I do think of course all those things. But I think I hope that it spurs people who are watching it to think more about the resources in their community and find out what is available. As everyone is saying we all know people who struggle with mental health issues, I think we're not all aware about what can be done, including just basic things about what kind of care is available and if it's not, why not, and of course being being kind to people
we know. But that's not always enough. You know that more needs to be done. So it's really I think it's really helpful to spread the word about what can be done. I don't think people know enough about UH and speaking for myself about what is really available.
Again, if we'll bounce it back to a listen, can put you back on the spot less.
When you want a professionals is where I find it?
Again might seem like an obvious question, but how do we recognize that someone really again, the difference between while they're a little depressed today and someone who's really struggling mentally? Are there signs to look for, and once we see them, what do we do?
Of course, absolutely so, first and foremost, I really think that the most important thing to do is ask questions and check in on your loved ones, just at face value. Right, we're in a stage post COVID where there's a lot of isolation. People are more on social media than they are gathering with their friends and loved ones, right, So checking in with the folks that are close to you is so important because you'll notice if somebody's acting a
little differently. Right, Hopefully you will feel the change in passion, the change and experience when you're sitting with somebody who's usually very lively and now is maybe on the other end of that spectrum being very quiet, very into themselves.
You know.
Again, we don't want to talk about putting folks into a box. Everybody experiences changes in their mental health in different ways. But some very typical issues to be concerned about. Folks who are isolating from groups of friends and family when they are typically very involved and very social individuals who are starting to talk about hopelessness, helplessness, some of that concerning language where we might be starting to get
into a little bit of a danger zone. Hearing individuals talk about giving away some of their prized possessions, or taking care of their pets or things of that nature. These are all things that as a clinician, my hat is starting to go. You know, we're getting into some concerning behavior here, but I think really it's just looking for minor departures. We know the individuals in our lives,
We love the individuals in our lives. If we're noticing changes, please don't be afraid to ask those people about it. Everybody is just looking for a safe space to talk about it. The more we ignore the problem, the more we stigmatize the problem, and the more we make it so that folks who are experiencing some of these mental health challenges feel like they can only stay to themselves about it.
Yeah, I think I heard from you a certain level of optimism. I painted a well kind of a negative picture, and you said it not necessarily true. There's work to be done, but you believe there are positive signs moving forward. Talk a little to that.
Absolutely, we are seeing an increase in mental health care utilization in the last couple of weeks.
Unil lis'ten finish it, and we'll get to Gail to please go ahead.
I'm sorry now, absolutely.
Just not an issue, not a problem at all. Go ahead and listen, then, Gail, you finish up.
Yeah, so we're seeing an increase in service utilization. By no means do I believe at my core that more folks are experiencing issues with their mental health. I think we have just increasingly normalized the ability for folks to reach out for help.
That to me is a positive, not a negative.
The more folks who are utilizing these resources, asking questions, seeking out supports for themselves and their loved ones, it's nothing but a positive. Because the more folks that we can expose to treatment, to supports and services, the more people we can't help in their own experiences along the way.
Okay, Gail, pick it up from there, same question. You seem to be optimistic more than pessific.
I'm hopeful, optimistic a strong work, but I am I am. I'm hopeful by the fact that there is more and more advocacy, more and more determination to make change, that more and more legislators.
Are waking up. At least on the state and local level. We could use more of that. On the federal level. The medicaid cuts that we've had have been devastating. So that's a reason not to be hopeful, because an awful lot of mental health care is paid for with Medicaid dollars. But I think that there is a lot of movement and a lot of advocacy, and as I say, I think we're potentially, if we can sustain it, at a
kind of a tipping point. And I'm also hopeful, which this sounds self serving in a way, but you know, I've been doing this director's tour since the fall, and we've been I don't know, about a dozen places so far, all around the country, and almost every time it's a full house. And I take that as a very hopeful sign that people are interested and want to see this
and want to know more. And partly it's a kind of perhaps a sensationalistic of wiistic fascination watching someone from a safe remove in psychosis has its own kind of fascination. But more than that, I think it comes from a place of caring and wanting to understand. And the conversations that take place after the screenings, the comments and the questions that come up give me a lot of hope because people do care. It's not that no one cares.
Maybe there are some that do not care, but I think I think we're to point where more and more people are sitting up and paying attention. And like I said, I think change, Change can happen, change does happen, and I think that begins with understanding. So that makes me hopeful.
If via talk a little bit about now it's time to plug the times dates place where where can people see the film?
Okay, go to rivertownfilm dot org and you can buy a ticket for our screening of No One Cares About Crazy People, which will be a Wednesday, January twenty eighth, eight pm at the Nayac Center in Nayak. It's a great place to come have dinner beforehand. There are lots
of delicious places to eat with delicious food beforehand. And I look forward to resuming this conversation which I've really enjoyed with Gail and Alissa and Dina Pataki, the film's editor, will also be there with us and lots of other people from the community.
I hope to be as well. Lissa, Now again your important information about your organization. If people need you, need help from you, etc. How can they get Yeah?
Absolutely so. Our website is a great place to start.
Greater Mental Health of New York dot org, Greater Mental Health dot work.
Excuse me.
We have fifty five plus supports and services that service Rockland and Westchester counties, and we even crawl into Putnam for a couple of those. But you know, we're going into our eightieth year of celebrating ourselves as an agency, and we are still finding individuals.
Who don't know that we exist.
It ceases to amaze me, right, So we want to get the word out if you have questions, if you don't know what the right way to start is, we have a great what we call outreach and engagement team.
Call the main number on our website.
You're going to speak with an individual that you can say, you know, I think I need help, but I don't know what that is. And those folks are trained to be there support you and figure out where to start with all of that. But the website also is going to outline all of our programs and services.
It's a great place.
No one cares about crazy people. Wednesday, January twenty eighth, eight pm at the Niaccenter, Ladies, thank you so much, as has been an absolutely wonderful conversation really really intelligent.
Thank you for.
Having Thank you for the opportunity Frank again, and I really town film and to greater mental health for partnering on this.
I encourage people to go and see the film. It's narrated by Robert say his name for me. I want to mass Oden Kirk. I didn't want to kill and nobody. He's far from nobody and the.
Original and I will also say original music by Jeff Tweety, the front.
Man for Wilco.
So for music fans out there, those having Bob and Jeff as part of this has been a great gift.
Yeah, it's the real deal. I want to let people know that it really is to yourselves a favor. See the film and stay for the conversation afterwards. It's important.
Thank you.
Okay, you're very welcome, ladies, And of course we offer special thanks to our listeners who take time to give us a voice in their lives. Remember you offer a fresh topic just about every week. Catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts. That includes apples, Spotify, iHeartRadio and all the rest. Check us out at the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. You can leave us a comment there as well too. You know you can catch
my writing. I have my own blog, talk frank ww dot talgsh Frank dot blogspot dot com, and I also publish a column every Friday in Nayaknews and Views. If you like this show, you may like my writing as well. I invite you to check it out. Okay, you know I always leave you a couple of the last things, a slogan that I feel is appropriate, and some great original closing music. Today we're going to get one from Martin Luther King as we celebrated his birthday this week.
And I've said it before, and I'll say it again over and over again. He said this originally in nineteen sixty three, and I think it's very appropriate to our conversation today. Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. All Right, we've got some great closing music. It's a stand up and be counted by Stephen Swan and David Snyder, two longtime friends from there soon to be released album Swan and Snyder, a fifty year collection.
The title is in response to human rights abuses everywhere. For our engineer, the mailman, mister Neil Richter, I'm your host, Frank Lebono, and we hope to have you. Have you join us on the next being Frank, We're the only way to be of course, is Frank, take care of everyone?
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