Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Oh my goodness, being Frank Frank, where the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebuono, and I'd like to thank you for joining us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation podcast, where no conversation is out of bounds in all points of view are welcome. We are going live to tape, as we call it, on the first of
February. Good riddance January. But that's a podcast, I guess for another day. Coming up in just over a week is the Super Bowl. And you want to know how far the Super Bowl has come since its inception. Well, perhaps the best comparison can be made in the price of admission i e. Ticket prices. You could gain admission to the first Super Bowl in nineteen sixty seven in LA between the Green Bay Packers and the Kansas City Chiefs for as little as six dollars yep, six bucks. That's the equivalent of
about fifty six dollars in today's market. Okay, so let's fast forward to this Super Bowl, which is number fifty eight in Las Vegas between the Kansas City Chiefs and the San Francisco forty nine Ers. The cheapest ticket is eight one hundred dollars okay, and the average ticket is nearly ten thousand dollars. The most expensive ones are available for just under fifty thousand per seed. At least, that's the research that I have found so far. That's how far
it's come. And if that wasn't enough, this year's broadcast on CBS is predicted to be the most watched live event in the history of television. So how did a simple challenge between rival football leagues morph into one of the greatest spectacles all of sport. It's a lot to unpack, but we have just the man to help us do it and provide us with some real insight into
the game itself. He has a longtime CBS sports producer, the creator and host of the award women award winning Metstra Damis Blog, and a man I'm proud to call friend, mister John Coppinger. John, welcome back to the show. Thank you. Always always great to be on with a friend, and always great to be on with you, and for multiple times here now I think this is three or four, and I hope to get into that Saturday Night Live type five guest clubs at all have to print help jackets or
hats or something. Johnny. But I noticed when I was reading the ticket prices, you were shaking your head in no sense. Where was it from the actual price? Is that a debatable though? Those are Those are the sources. I used an NFL source to get some of these prices, and that was just incredible. Now I wasn't shaking my head because I was disagreeing
with the price. I had heard that the lowest price was more towards ten thousand than the eight thousand that you said, But even at eight thousand, you know, my head shake was about just how crazy ticket prices in general, not just the Super Bowl in general, have become. And I look all the time at ticket prices for just local events here, and to go to a Rangers game on stub Hub with the fees mid December games against the Anaheim Ducks, you can't get for less than one hundred and fifty dollars.
All the midweek games against the Montreal Canadians they play in a couple of weeks on I believe the fifteenth of February. You can't get in for under one hundred and seventy dollars. This is a regular season National Hockey League game in
the middle of February. So the Super Bowl, I mean, yeah, it's on a much grander scale, and it's you know, when you said that six dollar ticket was equivalent to fifty six Now there are so many reasons why that ticket is where it is and uh, you know, status of the game, the addition of a of an A list halftime show for for these uh, that doesn't make it any less crazy, uh, and it
doesn't make it any more conducive to a football atmosphere. This is the uh you know, the atmosphere doesn't really for super Bowls don't really come through on television because you've got a lot of the only people that can afford these are or are the very well to do's and not the the uh, your regular passion every day, So it doesn't It just seems like a it seems like a very uh, subdued atmosphere for the Super Bowl rather than say an AFC
or NFC championship game where it gets crazy loud at these places. So yeah, that's it's it's insane. John. Let's go back to the first game. I'm old enough to remember the game U in nineteen sixty seven. I was twelve thirteen years old, so it was a you know, preteen, I guess they called him a teenager and very involved in Pop Warner football. They played football my whole life. We'll talk a little bit about that later. So I do remember the first Super Bowl. Do you were you old
enough to remember? You know? I was not. I wasn't born, okay, but I do remember that that that was. It wasn't even called the super Bowl then. It was called the NFL AFL Championship Game, right, And I don't believe they called it the super Bowl until four or five and five I think was the first time the first super Bowl when they when they merged, So you know, that's that's that's one part of the reason
why those ticket prices were six bucks. I don't think anybody knew what to make of it, that this that it was going to be quite so large, And I believe the halftime show was something along the lines of a marching band or or a dog catch at a frisbee, which which I think we should go back to. I love those those halftime shows at the marching bands and the guy dotting the ie in Ohio. Let's let's do that again.
Maybe the ticket prices will come down a little bit. Well, let's talk a little bit about the game itself, that first game with the Green Bay Packers and the Kansas City Chiefs, who are back in h and at the time, and the Packers were still coached by Vince Lombardi at the time, and where and then considered a traditional NFL powerhouse, and that the AFL team, the Kansas City Chiefs, who had some great players in their own right, couldn't compete, and as it turned out, they really didn't. Green
Bay won rather handily. But I remember, and some of that seems to be lost now, the intense rivalry between leagues. Now now it's one league, two conferences obviously NFC, AFC, impardon me, But with that said, and that there were certain rivalries within, but I don't I don't think it had the same intensity as that first game where the big boys on the block, if you will, we're going to show the weaper snap and the
new kids what real football was about. And in the beginning, for the first couple of years, they did, and your thoughts, I said, you didn't see it, you don't remember it, but obviously as a sports
producer you're familiar with it. What what should people take out of that first game, particularly as a game, Well, I think when you look at the historical aspect of the Super Bowl, you realize it only took until the third one for the upstart league to win, and then in the fourth one, which really solidified that that the AFL was on level terms with the NFL. It was those Chiefs that one that beat the Minnesota Vikings that year.
So you could even make the argument that the leagues, the two leagues were all were more level than we thought in those first two years, but that you had a the best of the best with those Green Bay teams going against the team that was an upstar team that wasn't quite ready to win like they were three years later with more experience. So it's I don't know if it was the whole the leagues that were so far apart, but just those two
teams that they happened to face the best of the best. If somebody would have upset the Packers to get in, say the Washington team had upset the Packers and got in. It would had have would have been the same thing, would the worst would a lower tier NFL team had beaten the Kansas City Chiefs And and when you figure out the the the uh in the few years
that followed, maybe not, maybe maybe it wasn't. And I think the with the the AFL being so quick to win games, win those Super Bowls, it wasn't like the NFC won ten straight, but that the AFL was able to win those Super Bowls, that it created a merger so quick. Uh. And that's why that's why people now that look back and say that Joe Namath was an overrated quarterback, look at his stats. He didn't complete fifty percent of his passes. He didn't he had more interceptions than touchdowns.
They're missing the point because while Joe Namath may not have been the best player to play in the NFL, I'll maintain and I do have biases as the jetsman, but I will maintain that Joe Namath was the most important player in NFL history because without that victory, who knows how long it would have taken the AFL to gain traction and to eventually create and rather quickly create the modern NFL that we know now, well, you know that's the perfect segue.
I was gonna it's on my list of questions. Again. People can't see your say, can only hear us. But I'm holding up my notepad just to prove that I actually can write, and I do take notes and do too. Anyway I can confirm I see this list. Is that Jets win over the Cults the most important super Bowl game? What? What are the most important Super Bowl games? Significant? And why is it? Can you or can you put them in any kind of an order? Could you consider
that the war? Well, when you're talking about importance, let's do important I would put I would put three. I would put three in uh, in that in that pantheon, I think that I think three is on a list of its own in terms of importance. Uh. If you want to talk about the Giants Bills super Bowl, that would that happened during the Gulf War and everything that was going on. Uh with that, I would in terms of in terms of maybe not the health of the league, but the
health of the country. I think you can put that as an important super Bowl. Uh. And then you know the rest I would have to think about. I think when you're talking about where you're going to talk about the the progression of where the league is now and where the super Bowl is now. Perhaps another important super Bowl was the Super Bowl where Michael Jackson was the halftime performing artist, because then that paved the way for a lot of other
important A list musicians to play. They have phenomenon, right, more than a game, right, Yeah, more than just a sporting event. So you want to put that up there, I would say those three if you're talking about importance in the progression of the league and of the and of the game. He know, for you, well, what it sticks out in your mind is some of the more exciting games, well played games, two excellent teams battling it out for the full sixty minutes. I was just I
just had a highlight popped up of the Cardinals and the Steelers game. I think that's a criminally underrated super Bowl that came down to the very end, and that's one of those where the Steelers won. But if the Arizona Cardinals had the ball last, they would have won, So I would put that up there. The Rams Titans, I think was had a good ending, although a boring first half. You could say that, and I think the Super Bowl between the forty nine Ers and the Bengals was another one that you
could put up there in terms of coming down to the wire. And then, of course, of course the comeback from twenty eight to three down by the New England Patriots to beat the Atlanta Falcons goes up there. And that Giants Bills game too, which came which came down to a last minute drive by the Bills where for the first time all game they looked like the Bills.
They looked like that run and shoot offense that was going to gain yards and chunks after the Giants had chewed up forty minutes worth of clock thanks to Otis Anderson, and then they get to field goal range and then got nor what happens. So I think that those stand out are some really exciting ones. The Chiefs Eagles last year was another good one the Chiefs, and then they played another good one against San Francisco. The first game against San Francisco
was a was a very good one. I mentioned Otis Anderson, so I'm going to inject the quick Otis Anderson story. He was signing Sports Illustrated's that store and flushing and I brought my well, he was signing everything. I brought my Sports Illustrated magazine with him on the cover for him to sign. And I got there really late. I got a late start. He was signing from twelve to one. I think I got there at like twelve fifty five. I run up. I'm out of breath, and I'm like,
oh, thank god, you didn't leave. I wanted you to sign this. And then he took it and he's signing it and he says, you're very lucky because OJ is about to get on out of here. And I love that he referred to himself in the third person. I thought that was the coolest thing. You know. I actually have a Otis Anderson momento. Also. I think he was making another appearance at a supermarket and signing tiny little football so they haven't around here somewhere, but since Spotfish was not worth
holding it up. But yes, I have something signed by Otis Anderson as well. It's a small world and talk about and he was a great player and had a great Super Bowl game. Let's talk about some of the great players and some of the great performances in Super Bowls. Who sticks out in
your mind? Well, you go back to when I was young, I remember the legend being, the legendary players being those Pittsburgh Steelers teams of the late seventies early eighties when Terry Bradshaw won four Super Bowls, Lynn Swan that had had one tremendous Super Bowl where he made four catches but gained something ridiculous like one hundred and well over one hundred yards one hundred and sixty something like
that. Yeah, So those teams and then watching those forty nine er teams also with Joe Montana and Jerry Rice who was an amazing one of the best Super Bowl players ever, and John Stalworth and Dwight Clark and that great defense they had for multiple Super Bowls. And then and then in more recent times, you've got Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes could win his third Super Bowl next Sunday, and then that's when we're going to start to wonder,
well, can they get to that pantheon. They've got a chance to be in that pantheon where the Patriots were where they won six because when you look at the Chiefs now they're that team that they really showed me something this year where they could win playoff games on the road and win playoff games when everybody thought, well, they're not at their best, they're not the Chiefs that we know and love, and yet here they are in the Super Bowl.
They find a way to keep building and finding complimentary players around Mahomes and around Travis Kelcey and for Andy Reid to coach. I think the only thing that will stop them down the line is if Reid decides to retire and they make the wrong coaching hire to replace them. But for right now, this Chiefs team can certainly be where the Patriots are when it's all said and done,
after Mahomes gets through. After the break, John, I want to literally break down the matchup between the forty nine Ers and the Chiefs strengths, weaknesses, best players, et cetera. But you know, it's it's in
thinking and go through my head. Some of the great players that in my mind and what is I think very underrated as a player in general, had a tremendous college career, pro career and tremendous Super bowls Marcus Allen and people don't they talk about the great running backs and there Barry Sanders and Brown, et cetera. But certainly if you look at his statistics and big games, also big time, big game player coming up big in those situations. Marcus
talent. Yeah, he might have had the single greatest run in Super Bowl history where he ran a circle around fifteen yards behind the line of scrimmage and then scored and then ran for sixty yards after that, where he probably ran
for a total of one hundred and twenty yards on that play. But if if for people that have never seen it, that was possibly the most incredible run from scrimmage in Super Bowl history, that Marcus Allen run against Washington when the Raiders were in Los Angeles. So again, a great great segue. What are some of the other great plays in Super Bowl history? Let's do
with the upside, in the downside, some of the faux pas. Let's start with some of the great players, and then people don't often talk about what are some of the big mistakes made in Super Bowls. First, when we talked about the Marcus Allen run, I think of the great catch in the Giants, the helmet catch David Tyree. I was going to bring that up for sure. Some of the other really memorable plays in the Super Bowl, the ones that stand out to me, I would probably say I would
put the helmet catch up there as well. I would put the an underrated one would be the Kenny King interception in Super Bowl ten when the Raiders beat the Eagles, the seventy five yard interception return the last second touchdown from Joe Montana to I believe John Taylor to win that Super Bowl against Cincinnati, And I think I want to highlight this one because everybody thinks this was a mistake
by Pete Carroll, and you could certainly argue that. But the play where he passed from the one yard line on first down when everybody said he should have given the ball to Marshawn and that may be true, and this could actually be on both lists, But the defensive back for the Patriot and I can't, I can't think of his name off the top of my head. He made a spectacular play that play. If you look at the high angle, all twenty two of that that that pass play fulled ten of the Patriots,
but it didn't fool the eleventh one. And the eleventh guy who made that play and made the interception should be given more credit for for what he did on that play. Then then Carol should get playing blame, and Carol should get blamed. But I think that was probably one of the key plays, one of the best plays in Super Bowl history. And and also let's
not forget the last second tackle. Kevin Dyson was tackled at the one yard line at the last play of the game by the linebacker for the Rams again another name I can't remember, but that's probably one of the most important plays that you could that I could that I could come up with for sure. All right, let's flip that coin. Whether some of the faux pause some of the owners as they say, well, Carol should should have given the ball to Marshaun Lynch, so we'll put him on that list as well.
Uh. And of course I think you have to look at the leon Let play when the Cowboys were up it didn't cost them the Super Bowl, but when they were up big and he was dancing and holding the ball and almost almost as if daring don Beebe to come behind him and knock the ball, and he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Scott nor would kick. Although I mean next, missed field goals are missed field goals. They happen. It's just unfortunate. I wouldn't call it a faux paw uh.
And then I think probably the entire second half by the Falcons in the game against New England, where I was just sitting there watching that game, just saying, all right, if Atlanta makes one more play, this is over one more play. And they did not make one single play the rest of that game. So I would just take that whole big chunk of time in that Super Bowl and say that was a PA and I'll throw one more at you. Sure the refereeing the referees in the Steelers Seahawks game Super Bowl forty,
who were absolutely positively awful. Seattle should have won that game. That was the worst, easily the worst game the referees have had in the Super Bowl. No, they're human beings too, and right they make mistakes just like players. But it's unfortunate that, you know, you don't want a referee influence something game that much one way or the other. But let's talk a little bit about the game since nineteen sixty seven to today, how what's
really stands out in your mind. Obviously, nothing stays the same. Everything changes, the rules, there are changes, but the basic core of football is the same. But Beyond that, what are some of the major changes that identified football now than in nineteen sixty seven. Well, we've talked about we've talked about the largest of the game, of the Super Bow ball itself, with it being about everything instead of the game or in addition to the
game. And if you're going to talk about the game itself, it's definitely a lot more at a lot more wide open now. But I think the largest of the Super Bowl can be encapsulated in the fact that we have a
Super Bowl in Las Vegas. Las Vegas. If you have thought twenty years ago or maybe even ten years ago, you could you have envisioned not just the Super Bowl, but so many professional and college sports happening in Las Vegas, where twenty years ago everybody was scared to have any sort of sports near casinos or sports books. That you thought that it would be the death knell of the league if everybody that played in Las Vegas would start gambling on their
own teams and whatnot. And you know, that's another large conversation for another time about the partnership between gambling and professional sports. But I think that's I think that's a major change in the Super Bowl that we have a game in
Las Vegas. We have You know, when when the when the NBA had their All Star Game in nineteen ninety eight, everybody said that that was such a disaster in terms of the players and that what was going on behind the scenes in the game, and you thought that that moment, Vegas will never have professional sports. Now they're there. They've got two pro teams, a super Bowl, they've got five or six college basketball conference tournaments there, uh,
and they're about to get a baseball team maybe. So it's it's just I think just with that a super Bowl in Las Vegas, you could have never imagined that. But that's where we've gotten where You've got these big these these big events happening in Vegas, and you've got these big stadiums now that you have super Bowls in that they're basically uh rotating between places like Vegas and the New Sofi Stadium and Jerry's World in Dallas, and then you throw in
Arizona and Tampa and Detroit, uh for those stadiums. So yeah, I think that's the I think that's the biggest difference to me, and the size of the stadium and the cities that they're in what about the physical game itself? John, the actual game of football. And I want to talk about
and lead into players. I mean as a former player, and I played god in the seventies, and you know, and I tell people when I was in college, I played at about one hundred and ninety one hundred and ninety five pounds as a safety, which in the seventies was okay, pretty sizable for that particular position. They would laugh at me. Today I get killed even at my best. You might be a kicker today, not even look at the size of the kickers. But obviously I think that the game
itself has has adjusted because of the increased physicality of the players. I mean, you know, and I we obviously work together at CBS, and I did do some sports, And I'm telling you, standing on the sidelines an NFL game when they run an in sweep is literally frightening. The players are so big, they're so fast, it's almost like they're sucking the air at the atmosphere as they are running. It's if you're not prepared for it, it can literally frighten you. So is it fair to say with that?
And you can just look at the rosters where years in sixty seven, maybe the Packers had two or three guys at three hundred pounds. Now the entire offensive line is three hundred plus pounds. It's and they can move, and they move, they can move their nimble. Put a license plate on that guy. So is it fair to say players are just flat out better today or is that an inaccurate statement? What are your feelings? Could some of the players from from sixty seven still compete today? I guess is the best
way to put it. I think that's a great quo. That last part of it was a great question. Yes, athletes are so much better today than they were. They have access to training methods and dietary knowledge that they never had in the sixties or the fifties or the forties. Uh we had. I was having this discussion and and and and not to get too off track, but that's that. That's kind of where the game is going.
They I think the game is recognized that how big these players are, how fast these players are, and they've changed their rules to try to make the
game safer. Right, the rules are so much different now where you don't see those hard hits that were celebrated in in highlight clips and video games, and now you just don't have that because it's too You know that there's enough evidence with with with with with the CTE that the league is pushing to make play make players safety a a priority, And it's an evolving thing, but it does when when you put in more of these things about player safety,
more rules to keep the players safe, it does change the game. And that's how the evolution goes. In terms of what you're asking about a player from the sixties coming in now. I always like to say it because we've had this conversation about Babe Ruth, and I'll apply it to football. If you take the guy, let's say Norm van Brocklin, right, I'll just put a quarterback, and you take Norm van Brocklin from nineteen fifty and you drop him into twenty twenty four, would he be successful? Probably not.
Now, if you take the infant Van Brocklin and put him in to two thousand and expose him to the methods and the training that they have today, would Norm Van Brockln be a Hall of Famer in this league? Sure? Absolutely? And I think that's what it's really all all about. It's not just you can't take Babe Ruth and drop him into twenty twenty three and expect him, expect the guy of that size and that physical ability to be any
good here. But if you take Babe Ruth, if Babe Ruth was born in nineteen ninety five or two thousand and had the upbringing that these guys have, would Babe Ruth be hit seven hundred home runs? He come damn close. He certainly wouldn't look like what he does. And he would also be a huge social media star because you could tell from his personality back then that he would have taken to Twitter and TikTok and Instagram and he would have owned
all of those things. So I just figured I would throw that in. That's terrific, you know, John, I want to talk a little bit about the rule changes before we go to break and really get into the game itself and the teams and the players. You know, you hear a lot of complaints about the new game. Oh it's soft, it's you know, they be couse, they protect the quarterback and no targeting. As I remember as a former player, they would encourage you to make hits like that.
We actually called it spearing, which is now illegal. But you know, when you think about it going forward. Again, As we said, with the incredible physicality of these players, I just wanted to put it into a certain perspective. Having played football on the high school and college and semi pro level for a little while, and having also been in an auto accident,
I can tell you some of the collisions are exactly the same. You know, it's just that physical and if you want to maintain some of that physicality and yet to keep players literally alive, I believe those changes had to be made. Your thoughts, Yeah, I think you certainly had to. It's because the game was going in a direction where somebody would have been seriously, seriously hurt. I mean, you look at what happened to DeMar Hamlin. That was such an innocuous hit, but it was in the right spot at
the right time, and that's what happens. I remember when a puck hit Chris Pronger right here, and it's just it's it's a one in a million, And the same thing happened to Chris Pronger. It's a one in a million shot. The way it was going, however, uh you it would have been way more than one in a million. Uh if if if it had gone this way and they had to change the rules. And but more
so, you have to change the way players are taught. And like you said, that goes down to the high school level, that goes down to the Pop Warner level. Uh and uh and again with players player safety being so paramount, they're looking at ending. They were looking at ending tackle football for uh, for nine to twelve year olds in California. Uh. And I know one of the compromises some of the schools eliminate kickoffs because so many
injuries happen on kickoffs. Yeah, and they've talked about eliminating kickoffs in the NFL also really Yeah, So it's it's I don't know if that'll ever happen. They've made so many changes to that to make it kind of safe, but it's uh, it's certainly something that they're looking at. I keep thinking of. You know, when they talked about what Aaron Hernandez, Aaron Hernandez was going through within his brain and which caused everything to happen to him.
That he was when he played those lower levels, he was the bigger, the biggest guy on the field. It was twice the size of these other kids. So he would just put his head down and run when he was like a twelve thirteen year old and what did that do to him? You know what those blows back then, that started back then. But it's it's
it's yeah, it's the way that things are going because you don't. What the NFL doesn't want, what no pro speds pro sports league wants is somebody to die during lay certainly not for something that could have been prevented, right right, John, So much more to talk about. We got to talk about the game itself. The two teams, two of the best teams have
finally made it. They are both excellent, They're not perfect, so we'll talk about why they're excellent and where they might be weak, some of the great players on both teams, and much more coming up on this Being Frank. My guest is CBS Sports producer and my friend John Coppinger. We're talking everything super Bowls. Don't go away. We'll be back with more Being Frank right after these brief commercial messages. Hudson River Radio dot com bring a dash
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friends. This evening, we're talking everything super Bowl fifty eight with CBS Sports producer, creator and author of Metstradamis an award winning blog, and so much more, my friend John Coppinger. John, we talked a little bit about history of the game and how things have changed and rules, but let's talk about this game itself. The Kansas City Chiefs and the San Francisco forty nine
ers pretty much the best teams throughout the year in their respective conferences. Both had long winning streaks, small losing streaks, but overall well balanced teams that deserve to be in the Super Bowl super Bowl in this particularly who's the home team? John? I lost that. I believe it's San Francisco because it was whatever it was four years ago, it's the same now and I believe that the I believe that the Niners were wearing their dark uniform. So I'm
gonna go with the Niners being the supposed home team. Okay, so let's start with Kansas City. Man, traditionally start with the visiting team. What what are some of their strengths? What what makes Kansas City worthy of a Super Bowl? Well? I think Patrick Mahomes for sure. When you have a talent like that, you you have a chance to win any any game,
any season. He is the great equalizer. And I think there was a lot of times when the Chiefs were going through their downstretch early in the year, when they didn't know what they were going to get from guys like Rashid Rice and Isaiah Pacheco, Rutgers guy. Yes that that that Mahomes would win games by himself. I think he won. He won the Jets game by himself. You know, the Jets should have beat the Chiefs that night, but Mahomes was what was had a great game. And that's the again,
that is always the uh, the joker card in the deck. But now that they've now that, everybody has seemed to catch up to the to Mahomes, like guys like Rice and guys like Pacheco and uh and Kelsey's Kelsey's having a great run in these playoffs. Now. I think what they what they do well is they adapt to their situation. They played at the strengths of their players. They don't Andy Reid doesn't come in with this, Okay, I've won it this way, so we're gonna do it this way and
this way and this way. No, he sees what he has and he works to those strengths. And I think that's commendable in an NFL coach. Not a lot of NFL coaches will do that. In fact, there are some NFL coaches that committed malpractice this season when it comes to when it when it comes to trying to ram their own ideas home and and not play to the strengths of your team, of their teams. So certainly and certainly they they they've gone from a an aerial Coriel type attack a few years a few
years ago to a running and defense type team. They're winning games with their defense as well. Uh, they've got they've got a guy who's going to be out for the Super Bowl. I leave his name is ashum Way. Uh, that's gonna hurt them. But if we know anything, if we know anything about the Chiefs, we know that they're a team you never doubt anymore. They're a team that they're They've got guys hurt, Okay, next
man up. Everybody says it, but the Chiefs live by it. So I certainly don't think that you can you can write them off from any game anymore. They've they it's it's that consistent talent and the and the and the ability to bring new players in and get them up to speed and if and if those players don't work out, we'll I have another one or two that'll come in. So I think it's their adaptability that has gotten them to this
super Bowl. One of the things I want to say about Pat mahomes phenomenal athlete he is, and what has always impressed me is how even in the biggest game situations and it's like he drops the game into a sandlot. I mean, he plays like I used to play as a kid with you know, with nobody watching and no pressure or just have you know, really in a sense, just having fun using his given ability to the maximum without fear.
And also the coach, and that's a big thing in trusting him and trusting in his skill, allowing him to play like that, you know, within that system. And then you mentioned how Andy Reid allows players to flourish within a certain system. There are a lot of coaches Oh no, no, you don't scramble like oh, you don't flip the ball, and yet he does it, he does it successfully. That's always really impressed me. Look at what John Harbaugh did to Lamar Jackson in the AFC Championship game.
He tried to make Jackson a pure pocket passer instead of relying on the running game, which which got the Ravens to the AFC Championship playing game. But by god, he was gonna ram his Uh, we're gonna oh, I got a great idea. We're gonna fool the Chiefs and we're gonna throw the ball all over the place and it cost them a chance at the Super Bowl. And I just did a podcast with my buddy Jake Stevens and he came up with the hashtag ogg T. Do you know what that stands for?
Overpaid glorified gym teachers? Wow? And that's what some of the that's what some of these that it came from watching some of these college coaches, but it applies to the pros too. They were they all try to reinvent the wheel. They all tried to outsmart everybody instead of just knowing what you got and playing to their strengths. Andy reidid it and John Harbaugh did not.
They used to say, when I was a kid, you got to dance with who brung you right, exactly like the old sub weaknesses weaknesses Again, I think it's gonna be injury. And what the Chiefs don't want is there is what's been happening to them in the middle part of the season has dropped passes. It's they had a lot of drops this this year and it contributed to their slide where they struggled to win the division this year. But they
they that hasn't been a problem in the playoffs. So as long as that's as long as that's settled, the only thing that could beat the Chiefs I think is the are the injuries being more of a factor than they hoped that they would be. Okay, San Francisco strengths. The strength is that they've got a loaded roster. They've got they are loaded at every position. They went and got They went and acquired Christian McCaffrey last year, they've acquired more.
They've they acquired Chase Young this year for defense, so they really have a loaded all star roster. And what's been impressive about them is that, you know, the Niners have had something like an oer to twenty seven record when they were losing in the fourth quarter under Kyle Shanahan, and they just got their first two wins in that situation, in the most important wins of the year in the playoffs. I think we're seeing how good Brock Party is.
Rock Party got hurt last year along with a few other of their quarterbacks, and they didn't have they they didn't have a chance against the Eagles, so I think they've been waiting to see what Party can do for them. And everybody called them a game manager, which is which kind of looked ridiculous. The way he he came back and used his arm and his legs to beat the Detroit Lions in the NFC Championship game. I think he really showed us a lot. So's irrelevant anymore, No, not anymore, for sure.
And I love that they beat a team in the Lions that had the number one ranked player in the draft with the quarterback with the last wrecked draftee in the league. So yeah, I just I think they're loaded, and I think and if we can go to weaknesses, you know, they do have a they do have a tendency to kind of to kind of lapse in
certain uh in certain directions and defensively, uh for sure. But I think I think if they stick to what got them there, just like what we said about the Ravens not sticking to what got them there, As long as San Francisco lets their players play, I think they can beat the Chiefs. I don't know if they will, because the Chiefs really do seem like that impenetrable force where you just they've got They've got all this talent and the intangibles.
But I think if if San Francis, I think what San Francisco needs to do is is rely on their best players to get them where they need to be and not forget about anybody. You've got players all over the field. Use them, Use George Kittle, use Brandon, I use Deebo Samuel
if he's healthy, use Christian McCaffrey. Keep your offense nimble and and adjust accordingly, and and keep keep the chiefs, defense guessing and if they've got UH, if they've got a weakness because they're missing the guy in the defensive line, exploit that. Exploit it with screens, exploit it with with with short passes that you can that you can get around them, and UH and on defense, don't play two safeties high and give Patrick Mahomes all day to
pick apart the middle of the field. Right now, a lot of great matchups, ones that stick out in my mind. Two of the best tight ends, uh going ahead to head. Of course they don't compete against directly against one another, but two outstanding tight ends for both San Francisco and Kansas City. UH. They're they're they're fun to watch. Big, physical, athletic, you know, that's what fries. These guys are six six six seven two d and fifty two hundred and sixty pounds and move like wide receivers.
Guys. It's again to appreciate the skill level of someone that big, that could be that athletic at the same time as exceptional. And they're also physical. They like to be physical, they like to run into people. So I I that's one of the matchups I'm looking forward to. What are your thoughts on that, Well, certainly that's that's a marquee matchup. And when you look at both matchups where you're talking about those tight ends against the
other team's defense. Kelsey's been on such a run lately, I think it's going to be a hefty challenge for the Niners to contain them. You know, the Ravens tried to use Kyle Hamilton against them, and early on it did not work. It did not work out well, but you know, he got the hang of it later on. You know, that Ravens defense help shuck them out in the second half. Great hard nosed player, they
have that great matchup. So I think that I think that when you're looking, I think that's going to be a key matchup on that side of the ball. How are the forty nine ers gonna scheme so that they can keep Travis Kelcey from from hurting them and keep the Chiefs from hurting them on third down like they did against the Ravens, So I think, and certainly Kelsey
is a huge part of that. So I think shutting him down will put some pressure on the other players perhaps, So that's there They're gonna have to scheme like nobody's business to shut to shut Kelsey down. But that's the challenge in shutting down the Chiefs offense. You can't shut one player down and have the rest of it collapse. Uh But but if you're if you're gonna choose one guy to key on, Kelsey is that guy to key on. If you could take away that big of a weapon for Patrick Mahomes, that'll make
his life at least a little more difficult. And on the other side, I think we've forgotten about George Kittle because there are so many other weapons on the on the Niners, because there's Samuel, because there's Ayuk, because there's McCaffrey. Uh yeah, but check us forgive me yes, right right right. But I think that certainly Hittle is more of an X factor, whereas Kelsey's more of a main player. Kittle's a guy you don't want to forget
about because you look it. Against the Lions, he was quiet and then he had one or two big catches in those drives that that helped him because he went he saw the where the openings were and he exploited them, and brock Purty hit him at the right time. So I think that's somebody where. Okay, Kittle's gonna lie in the weeds. But you know how good he is. You've said how good, how big and physical he is. But he's also very athletic and can certainly break break the backs of the Chiefs
defense with long gains thirty forty yards at a time. So I think that's gonna be He's gonna play a little bit of a different role than Kelsey does, but I think he can. He can. He might be a little bit more of a home run hitter than Kelsey is, where Kelsey is more of a singles hitter. And when I say singles hitter, I mean like each he ro singles hitter, like elite of the elite singles hitter. So I think it's gonna be exciting to watch those two players go at it.
All Right, yall, it's that time. We've gone about forty eight minutes in. We have to talk about Yes, you warned me this know you know where I'm going. I promise it wouldn't be the whole show, But we've got to talk about t and t Yes, Travis and Taylor or Taylor and Travis, however you want to put it. You'd have to be living in a rock to not know what we're talking about. Right now, let's get right to it. Is it good for the game? John? Is it bad? As you would be ignoring it? Should we give it as
much attention? What is it all about? I think is it good for the game is kind of an incongruous question because the game is the game. The game is not going to change because of anybody's girlfriend or wife. They will they will be there too. You know, there's Travis keller. Despite what we're led to believe, Travis Kelcey is not the first NFL player to have a girlfriend. I think that's how we've treated sometimes, and I think
that's that's where a lot of people's frustration. Famous are right exactly exactly, But I I don't think we should be asking is she good for the game? But I think there is one thing to watch as we as we move forward with this and and listen, this is the Super Bowl. We know that everything outside the game is gonna is going to be front and center. So we're gonna have some You're going to see Taylor Swift all throughout the Super
Used to it, get used to it, exactly. But here's the question, because viewership is set records for the last couple of playoff games, the streaming game against Miami. You know that the Chiefs being on streaming, that was no accident. They knew that they would get they would get streamers people to sign up for Peacock because it was the Chiefs and Taylor Swift bringing new
fans to the games exactly. But you brought it up there's there's bringing new fans of the game, but are they going to stay for the game? And I think this is where the NFL. Everybody asks, well, is Travis gonna put a ring on it? Here's what I'm asking, Is the NFL going to put a ring on it? Because I'm sure, let's say, you know, what's the record for Super Bowl viewership one hundred and five million? I think it is, it's going to be one hundred and twenty
easy, easy, and probably north of that. How do you get that audience to stay? Because also, not just the NFL, it's all pro sports that want that casual fan, okay, but not every sport knows how to hold on to that casual fan. So this is what I'm looking for. I think what the NFL probably wants is for the tailor effect to stay. How do you get the tailor effect to stay? Yeah, you can hope that she comes to every Chiefs game ever in life, and that's one
way to do it. But you're leaving so much to chance there. I think what you're going to see is a more permanent relationship between the NFL and Taylor Swift. Hey, that jacket she wore at the Miami game that was designed by the wife of Kyle Jusika from the forty nine ers. What if we put out a Taylor Swift line of jackets that you can only buy at NFL stadiums, then you get a whole audience, no new audience coming to NFL games to support not only Travis Kelcey, but their favorite player in the
same type jacket that Taylor Swift war during the game against Miami. Oh, I can get that for I can get that for a jacket like that for Garrett Wilson. I could get a jacket like that for Trevor Lawrence. Wow, sign sign me up. And I think something like that is going to happen in the future where where the NFL and Taylor Swift will not only be two ships passing in the night and it won't be just a happy accident that the viewers are coming. I think there's gonna be something more concrete in the
next few months. That's just my total guess, and I think that's what the end because the NFL wants the tailor effect to stay. They don't want to swell to one hundred and twenty five million viewers for this Super Bowl and then go right back down to one hundred and five if the Chiefs aren't in it. They want that, if they want those new fans to stay. How do you do it? You make Taylor Swift a more permanent part of
the game. You get them, You get the new fans more involved in the game and not just watching for cutaways of Taylor Swift, and then on and on and on, and it turns into more consistent, higher viewership, more consistent merchandising and merchandise sales. So that's what I think we're going to be looking for. Not is she good for the game, but is she good for business. She's already proven that it's good. It's good business for
the NFL. Now how do you get it to stay? That's going to be what we what we answer in the next in the coming, days, weeks, months, years, they should hire you in there if the NFL should hire you in their marketing departments. So that's pretty sure. I am the lie. No way should be marketing anything. All right, John, time to put you on the spot one more time, one last time. Predictions scores, winners, losers, give it to us. I picked against
the Chiefs the last two games. I'm not going to make that same mistake. I think San Francisco can win the game. I don't think they will win the game. I think Kansas City is Kansas City, and I'm gonna I'm gonna predict it by the same score I predicted four years ago. I will say Kansas City thirty two, San Francisco twenty four. Well, sounds like it'll be a great game. And you you people can't see you again because we only stream audio, but you're wearing a shirt. That's that really
is the ultimate. Let me read it for you. As John holds it up, and his final thought is I just hope both teams had fun. That's all that matters. It's all that counts. Nobody get hurt, Everybody have fun, and let's and it'll We'll hope for a good game. And an entertaining game and a game that people will remember, maybe perhaps even more than the come Marshall's and the halftime show. Well, John, I certainly had fun with being frank with you tonight. Thank you so much. Always
a pleasure to have you anytime. I'd love to come back anytime. Thank you. We got two more to go. We get you that five spot jacket. I'll be ready, I'm ready, I'm ready. I'll get you my measurements. And of course you offer special thanks to our listeners who take the time to give us a voice in their lives. Remember we offer a fresh topic every week. You can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts and includes Apple, Spotify, I Heeart Radio, and all the
others. Check us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. Leave us a comment too. We also ask you to consider being frank with others. I'd like to leave you always. Two last things. One of the little
inspirational slogan. I hope it's inspirational and in some great original music. And this one comes from General of the Army in World War Two, George C. Marshall, and I've passed it many times in games that I've covered at Mikey Stadium at West Point, and for me, it sums up why people play this crazy game of football, and it says this, I need an officer for a secret and dangerous mission. I need a West Point football player.
So that's from George C. Marshall. And we've got some special music tonight from a very very special friend who's finally back at home after a serious health scare. And I think from the outpouring of love and support, he knows how many people love him. The love for him is beyond measure. And of course we're talking about tim O'donoiu, a great troubadour, storyteller, musician, father, just everything his tim o'dee one of the most loved men
in our circle. He's home, he's recovering, he's healing. We wish him all good health into the future, and we want to celebrate his return home with his song keeping score from his album A Little Bit of All Right. For our engineer, Neil Richter. I'm your host, Frank Lebono, and we hope to have you join us for the next being. Frank, We're the only way to be is Frank one two three, You were the kind I was too blind to see all of the things you were gonna do
to me. Wishing I could tell you what your eyes looked like a dawn crazy blue nd bloodshine as you ran across the lawn. I shouldn't learned, because I been birned so many times before. Ell' dricking irish whiskey, dragging my ass off of the floor. I won't take no more phone calls. Your email addresses black. The only thing I missing about you. That's how
we used to rock. That's a broken runs line on my bedroom floor, lakes trap tight around me, thanking me for smiling, sigh said, come inside, well, no, you're keeping the score another night around my back well one, I'm good for forever. It's just another word that just said to me. Let them know that you're looking for something only you can't see. Stand up strong, tell me along. If not what I'm supposed to do. You told me a story, only part of which was true.
Red Brugan promise, line of les rap tier around me. I'm making you for home, smiling, sigh said, come inside, well, know you're keeping school nemer night on my back way, knowing I'm moving two three four Hudson River radio dot com, MHM,