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Oh my goodness, it's being Frank, where the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank. We're the only way to be is well Frank. I'm your host, franklborn On, and I'd like to thank you for joining us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where no conversation out of bounds and all points of view are welcome. Regular listeners know our routine, and that is I give you the date because we record live to tape. It is the twelfth of February.
Some criticized recognition months such as February being designated to honor Black history as unnecessary and possibly even divisive. They claim that these designations highlight our differences instead of our similarities. But they completely miss the point, because it's an opportunity to share experiences that make us realize that Americans, every ethnic group, despite obstacles and hardships, have made enormous contributions to our society and have traditions worth sharing and celebrating.
And no group in this country has had to overcome more barriers to claim their share of the pie than African Americans from slavery to the pinnacle of power in President Barack Obama, Blacks have made substantial progress in their quest for total equality, but as evidenced by the recent racist videos released by the Trump White House, and let me make this perfectly clear, at this point, there is no moral ambiguity here. For me, it's racist. So there is still obviously a long way to go here to
discuss that video and so much more. Yes, this is a celebration. Are two leaders from our Black commune unity returning for more intelligent conversation, the first black woman elected to the Rockland County Legislature, doctor Dana green Stilly, an artist, author, educator,
and community activist, mister Bill Batson. Let's start a little bit again, doctor Dana, since you are relatively new and you were on speaking recently about some of the legislation the ice presidence here in the county in our last program, which was extremely well received, I should stay, by the way, and we appreciate all the information that you and Joe Rand and Beth Davidson gave to our listeners.
So we really.
Appreciate that, but we really never really got the opportunity if you will to beat doctor Dana Stilly. Tell us a little bit about your journey as a woman, as a black woman, where you're from, a little bit about your background and what brought to you to where you are today.
Okay, I can do that. I was born right here in Rocklam County, have lived in Orangetown my entire life, and attended South Orangetown Central School District, which was a really was a great educational experience, and for me, it
was even a great social experience as well. I think it's worth saying, however, that when it came time for me to consider my higher education, there was a little bump in the road in that my high school guidance counselor didn't think that I should be applying to Brown University and seemed.
To say to me that.
She didn't think that we could afford it, and she wasn't quite sure that I would even be accepted. And the minute someone says no, you can't to me, that's really just saying, well, watch me, because I'm going to do it.
And I can remember going home and just being feeling really deflated.
And my parents as well as some of the other local leaders then specifically doctor Clarence Branch Junior said to me, Nope, you're gonna apply to Brown and you're gonna go, and you're gonna pay for it.
You know.
Well, long story short, I did apply, got in early action, of course, got some financial aid support, and was able to go not only to one Ivy League institution, but to two, both of which were paid for. And as I think about that, as I've continued my journey, I thought, how dare she actually how dare she say that to me? Because she didn't know what my parents did for a living, she didn't know what their educational achievements.
Were, She had no idea.
I mean, she knew my name, she knew my grades, she probably knew my address, but she didn't really know much more about me or a family that I had there to support me. And that story has been a catalyst almost for every other thing in my life that.
I have set out and tried to do.
So, you know, having someone suggest that I could not get the level of education that I wanted really drove me to be sure that I completed my education on time and then went to graduate school and many many years later got that terminal degree again because doctor Clarence Branch told me that I could and I should.
And so.
While I was in college, and I'm going to try to speed this up a little long faster. While I was in college, I pledged a sorority and we learned then the importance of public service, and that has been what has driven me my entire adult life. I came, I returned home, and while I was in graduate school, I became involved in several nonprofits, built relationships, really found
out how the world of Rockland works. And that led me many many many years later to receiving that ask about whether or not I would consider running for public office. And at first I said no. And I said no, I think because you know, I had a young son in high school about to go off to college. How is that going to affect my private life, my family life, what kind of time commitment does that mean make? And then,
when thinking about it, why not me? Because it was pretty clear that there was a lens of experience that was missing on the county legislature, that being a lack female, and I felt like it was important to bring that lens as we try to create policy and practices that certainly would uplift everyone in the community.
So I went for it and I was successful.
And here I am and here you are, you know, and I appreciate all of that. It was not too long, and I know there's so much more to tell. And you know, it's funny when we get my guests. I always asked for really truncated biographies because everyone has all these wonderful qualifications that if I read them all, we never get to any topics. So with that understood, But you know, as I was listening to I was also taking some notes. And it's a great time to bring
Bill Batson in as well, you know. And I just jotted down some words that we can build upon, especially here in Rockland County. You know, it's a small place. A lot of big things happened here historically and within the civil rights movement as well. And I know Bill, through his NIAX sketch log and his lectures, et cetera,
has had some direct experience and exposure. But let me let me do four words that I that I put out there and and and perhaps you guys can put it in historical context here within Rockland County too, And I put time place people history, okay, with within with the doctor was doctor Dane was saying, I heard all of those things that you know that was a particular time and in this place, and these people and this
history affected what I am today. So with that in mind, Bill, why don't you take what do you think some of the key moments in people here in Rockland County, particularly from the idea of civil rights as we are celebrating you know, Black History Month, Well what do you what do you what would you say are some of the really key places in people within that time and place here?
So, yeah, it's interesting. So I would say.
That nayak is Is is wonderful for me.
My family's been here since the eighteen eighties.
But I know that with doctor Stilly, we're talking about you know, Piremount and Orangeburg, and within the black community, you're connected to all the other enclaves of blackness by virtue, sometimes of familial tie, common experience, and also by struggle. So if I had to come up with something that would fit your forwards, a time that I think is unique to Rockland and pivotal to the country would be pre war period, like from like nineteen thirty to nineteen
fifty five in particular. So the four words that you prompt Us with Frank make me think of the period of nineteen thirty to nineteen fifty five. There were pivotal time in America, certainly in the African American community.
Pre war period.
Nineteen fifty five, of course, was the Montgomery bus Boycott.
I also think about place Hillburn.
It's in the eastern part of the county, but it was kind of significant in that it had a combination of black and Indigenous folks and people of mixed race who were forced into a segregated school called the the Brooks School for Colored Children. Yes, in our county in the nineteen thirties, there was such a place. In the forties, the people I think about are all those men and women who fought against this. The Van Dunk family and leaders from the NAACP worked to bring a young Thurgood
Marshall to Rockland County in the nineteen thirties. Most people don't know this. There are so many facts and our
county that kind of hide and play in sight. But their good Marshal was a young attorney for the NAACP, and he came up here and he fought the legal segregation of black and Indigenous students into a school that was separate and woefully unequal, didn't have indoor plumbing, didn't have books, didn't have a gymnasium, didn't have any of the amenities that the white school had that was around
the corner. And then the history was he successfully ended that process where the state Department of Education shut down the Brooks School for colored children.
All the students were.
Then sent to Hillburn And is a reaction and that often happens. White parents pulled their students out of the integrated school, fearing God knows what that kids might learn together and play together. And they eventually, because of the expense of private school, came back together. And it is to this day obviously ramapo and suffering.
It's an integrated school system. But the real lesson that affected the.
Nation is that Thurgood Marshall used the theories that he employed to successfully integrate a school in Rockland to argue before the Supreme Court Brown v. Board of Education, which ultimately ended school public school segregation in the United States and eventually propelled him to the United States Supreme Court.
Before you get to your next time, just want to jump in wonderful documentary. By the way, two schools Hilbert. Joe Hilbert, Yes, Joe Allen produced a local producer, wonderful informative and again if for people who are not familiar with Rocker to Hilbert, it's this tiny place, but that was a huge thing in the history of the civil rights movie.
You know, it looked like the same though, but if you go back there today, it's like a time capsule. And what's really sad to me two things. One that the Hillburn School is still there. It's in perfect pristine condition. There's a there is a plaque outside of it to Thurgood Marshal thanks to to Ellen Jaffey, the former Rocken
County Legislation Rocking County assembly member. But the Brooks School has been allowed to decay and it's just a ruin and it's on private land and people now are trying to put together the resources to purchase it because it should be a monument so that people can remember this as people are running around parts of our country trying to race history, that we just have to redouble our efforts to erect monuments and things that are permanent that
can't be easily erased. The other thing is that there's a story about the Indigenous community in Hillburn that goes unnoticed. And when I bring students to Hilburn, and I brought a group of Latin American students, and obviously there's a great deal of pressure in that community right now, and there's there's almost like an underground railroad forming for people from the Latin American community who were being chased through
the streets by masked agents who don't identify themselves. But the kids that I brought there from Ramapo didn't even know that there were Indigenous people in Rockland County, didn't know the name of those Indigenous people, and didn't know that those Indigenous people still live here.
So there's so much of our history that goes hiding in plain sight.
Uh, Doctor Dana, I want to bring you back into our conversation here. And you mentioned some of your influences, and Bill mentioned big names here in Rockland County like Thurgood Marshall, but there are also local people. And I noticed on a social media post one of your posts saluting Chief Bullet, I was the first black fire chief in the county. So there are many instance. I know Hezekaya Easter, the first black legislature in Rockland County, and he has a square named after him in Nayak, in
downtown nig and rightly so. But there are so many strong names here. Can you name some of them here on this level, some of the people here that influenced.
You, certainly I could, We couldn't.
We could not even begin to have a conversation about this without invoking Wilbert Aldridge, right, who has been on the front lines for I think he said well over forty years and we you know, we know that he most recently retired from his position. But Wilbert was has always been a force to be reckoned with, strong, always ready to speak out and speak up and challenge those.
I remember also mister Leonard Cook, who I think passed in two thousand and one or so, but he was a very strong advocate for affordable housing, particularly a Nayak right, you know, the creation of the Leonard Cook Pines Street homes located in Nayak. He also led the ninth branch of the na A c P for a very very very long time. We could also mention, oh my goodness, there are so many the Gordons, Edmund and Susan Gordon, right of course, for all of that what they did
for education. I'm not sure that folks in this community understand that Edmund Gordon was a founder of head Start, and that is something again talking about a legend.
National head Start, yes.
National Start, yes.
But in another great Joe Allen documentary on doctor Gordon as well too. Yes, yes, you know.
There's doctor Francis Pratt. There just so many that we that for me have been impactful because I have seen them work, I have seen them continue to speak up and you know, there's that saying that you can't be what you can't see, and so recognizing them all the time and having building relationships with them has also been instrumental for me personally to be allowed to embrace my courage, so to speak, and keep going. But you know, the
list could go on. We could talk about Willie Troupman, Barbara Williams.
And so many invention and certainly there are just certainly so many. You know, it's a good segue back to Bill as well too, because and you mentioned first of all the sense of place and how important it is to have literally the place, losing the school in Hillburn
for example. So I think it's a good opportunity to talk about how you managed to preserve a very important place literally, and that was Mount Moore Cemetery, which is literally this if people are not familiar with it, the Palisades Mall, which was one of it in its day, the one of the largest countries in the largest malls in the country, surrounds this tiny historic black cemetery and they almost try to goggle it up. But through your efforts and the efforts of others in the black community,
it was saved. Talk a little bit about the preservation efforts, why it was important then and still is today.
Bill Well, I can't take any credit for saving it because back in the I guess late eighties, mid eighties, when that fight was taking place, I was hanging out in malls.
I wasn't fighting to save malls. I was a young person. But this is a story about hesee Kai Easter and Janita Holland, I'm sorry, Jacquelin Holland, and at least a crow oh and a group of people who were confronted with a battle against one of the largest corporations in America.
And it's familiar. And you know, I keep thinking that.
We feel sometimes that we are being disrespected when our history is being erased that somehow people are suggesting that we're inferior. I would like to propose a different perspective. I think it's the exact opposite. I think that our history is a threat. I think that the successful resistance
and resilience of our community threatens authoritarians. So it has to be denigrated and it has to be disappeared because they don't want people to know that a group of men and women with no resources could fight off the efforts of an army of lawyers with bulldozers and corrupt intent and and uh successfully preserve a burial ground, a modest burial ground, and that fight was successfully won. Heze KaiA Easter, who led the fight, is the last man
buried at Mount Moore. He's buried beside his wife, Ruth Easter, who was a contemporary of Martin Luther King. That the greatness and in this community is a direct connection to some of the greatest figures in American history, like right now, so in Hillburn we have a connection to Thurgood Marshall and Mount Moore, we have a connection to Martin Luther King.
Some of the.
Men buried at Mount Moore witnessed the surrender of Robert E.
Lee. That's Solomon Miller.
Solomon Miller was a Civil Wars Revolutionary War.
There are there are a dozen Civil War veterans buried at Mount Moore. And what we're trying to do now is to say that there are twenty four million.
People that visit the Palisades Mall.
Now, it's interesting the company that tried to take us out on Pyramid Corporation, they wanted to bury the cemetery, but in truth, the cemetery buried them because they're bankrupt
their history and we still exist. And we would like to think that maybe if one percent, if two hundred and forty thousand people a year that went to the mall were diverted or were given an opportunity to come to the cemetery, they would learn about American history in a way that wouldn't only make events that are considered sometimes far away in time and space approximate, so it would make them really stand on the ground that's hallowed
by those that fought in the Civil War. Not only that, but it would tell a story of resistance and resilience that is relevant to every community and very relevant in the world.
Right now, you know, we'll talk a little bit about the challenges that remain, not only not only from without, and we're.
Going to get to that.
Uh.
And you mentioned plaques being removed, names being removed, Colin Powell's name, for example, being removed from honor rolls. So it's it's an ongoing effort. Uh. So so there's those are some of the external things. But what do you see as some of the internal pressures within the black community, uh, that need to be addressed and some of the possible solutions. Why didn't you take that first, doctor Dana.
I think one of the internal pressures pressures, uh, might be this sense of invisibility.
And by that, I mean.
There has been a great deal of concern, especially in a time of election or preparing for elections or campaigning. There seems to be a great deal of concern that the black voice is not heard. And I translate that into a sense of them being invisible, right because of thoughts that may or may not be true, or they don't vote, oh they can't vote, or they don't care, or whatever it is.
And so I don't think there is there has been an active.
Involvement to get the black vote, and I think that that is of a major concern to the black community because when you don't spend the time to sit and listen to what their concerns are, right, then why or how do they know who they should vote for? How do they know who shares their values? If no one will comes into the community, no one really shares their values in the community, then I feel like that is one of the greatest challenges facing us, because then there
is trickle down effect. Right, So whoever gets the office does not represent your values, and that then trickles down to lack of affordability, or a lack of access to education, or a lack of services that you need for your health care and or to feed your family.
Right. So, I think that there really is a concern.
That the the black voices collectively are not are not being heard.
I mean, I hear the question, Frank, but I think that you know, black people are no different than any other people. So the pressures that we feel are the pressures that everybody feels, trying to make a living, trying to make meaning.
Trying to find peace.
But what's happened in our country is that you know, from its founding, from its inception, we have been a part of our degradation and and and and kind of stealing of our labor and and and and stealing of our uh uh, you know, of our our spirit and stealing of our culture has been a constant. And what's happened now, which is terrifying, is that it's become kind of almost like an algorithm. It's become accelerated, and it's become amplified, and there's almost like this now economy around hate.
Like you know, I wonder why people post some of the things that they do, because they're so harmful and they're so obnoxious, and they're so clearly untrue, but they do it because they.
Get attention, they get likes and and and it's.
There's the these sites that are now kind of able to monetize hate, which is just so terrible because you know, that is something that doesn't It's it's like an economy that produces its own destruction. You know, we're not building widgets,
we're building you know, like a vice grip. And it's almost The fresh phrase that we used to use a couple of years ago was virtue signaling, and that was somehow considered I never could figure out why virtue signaling is a bad thing, because if you're trying to promote yourself by saying I'm kind or I'm generous or empathetic, I never saw how that could be bad.
But now there's this thing.
Called vice signaling where people are doing horrible things, saying horrible things and getting attention and getting promoted and getting elevated for it.
And the last thing I would like to say is that the.
Government right now seems to use the Black community to distract from a bad economy, to distract, So they'll throw out the racist images of Michelle and Barack Obama to distract from ice raids. So they'll attack Don Lemon to distract from a bad economy, or the Epstein files, so they'll attack the Haitian community, or the Soma community, or
brown people from the Latin American countries. So I believe that any people would would tire and would start to bend and break from this type of centuries of being singled out and being the scapegoats and being the the you know, the targets. And once again, the brilliance and the beauty of the Black community is that there are folks that can manage to survive this and manage to thrive and manage to find beauty, and manage to find
humor and ultimately celebrate peace and celebrate unity. Because our most prominent figure is Martin Luther King, and I feel that our country, if it didn't have his example, our country would be in civil war again right now. Everything that you see happening in Los Angeles and in Chicago and Minnesota, people are drawing from the legacy of the
non violent Southern civil rights movement. They're helping each other, they are they're being you know, non violent, and if they're being disruptive, it's in a way that's not violent. And and these stories are just so so important and it shows that, you know, we can survive this if we, you know, follow these past examples.
So that's why I think it's so important that we continue.
You know, even though Black History is the shortest month of the year, and now we're learning it's also the coldest month of the year, it's maybe the most important, I would say, maybe the most important month of the year for the United States of America.
I'd like to follow up one, So, oh, Dana, you'd like to follow up? First of all, I can, I can see that, please do?
I would, and I think that you're absolutely right, Bill, especially in these times. You know, I've read why is there a Black history monk? Who needs that We're all just one big community? I don't see color right, But you laid it out pretty clearly about the need for us to continue to celebrate the fact that we're still here and thriving and trying to move forward and trying to let all of the attacks roll off our backs
and just keep moving forward. And that that again is the beauty of this Black History Month, and I really think that we should move.
Beyond that, move beyond the month. Yes, it is.
An opportune time for you know, black people and all within the community do gather, but I think that there should be celebrations also throughout the year because what I think is lost as we celebrate Black history is that Black history is American history, right, And we're quickly approaching the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, and there absolutely must be some programming or planning events from the black perspective or that highlights what blacks were doing here at that time.
And I think we just need to really keep pressing forward and reminding people black history is American history.
Point well taken there's something I want to go back to, doctor Dana you mentioned in your history, you know, and we're going to get to the example of overt racism, i e. The video. It can rarely get more overt than that, but it's not always like that. They're the subtleties of systemic racism. And you mentioned the fact that you know, she didn't mention it, but in the back of your advisor's head was, well, this is a black family, they can't do this. That's the subtlety of against systemic races.
Talk to that a little bit. Why once you take it first, and then Bill can follow up in his thoughts.
So it is pervasive, I think is the best follow up on that. That was probably the first time or my introduction to it as a seventeen year old child. But then moving on through life, you continue, or I have continued to experience the microaggressions, Oh you talk like a white girl. Oh you're so articulate. I'm not have a conversation just like anybody else. So they're all of those subtle things.
And the.
Difficult part is that I honestly don't think that the majority of those microaggressions that people understand that they're even doing it. My heart wants to believe that they don't really understand that they're causing harm or that their words have the potential to be harming and what they do say.
That over Oh it isn't that expression, father, They know not what they do.
Yes, yes, But again, there needs to be a big enlightening, more education, more conversations like this so that feelings and experiences can be shared and people can really have a good understanding of the background of why that is so offensive to me. Just yesterday, I think someone I was reading and someone said, we don't I.
Don't see color. Well, then how can you see me? You look at me, and if you would just describe me, you say she is a black woman. Right, So for anybody to say that they don't see color, I feel like they are missing my essence, They're missing my experiences, they're missing who I was born to be, They're missing all of that. And so it's really a little bit
insulting to say that you don't see color. I understand the concept trying to be embracing of everyone and that you value everyone, but you still have to see me.
You know. That's like a judgment. People say oh, I never judge. Of course you judge. You're a human being. We always do. It's fight or flight. You're wearing a particular set of glasses. You chose those glasses because they represent a certain thing. It's what you do with that judgment. Ultimately, if you will where you take it, and if I hear you, I think you're agreeing with that, is that it's silly to say, of course you're black woman. You
can acknowledge. That's not an insult or whatever it is what it is. But let's let's bring Bill back into the conversations from your experience.
I mean, maybe it's people are trying to be enlightened by saying they don't see race, because the opposite of seeing race in there. One of the examples is a person who just sees black as as you know, a negative thing and would hurl when they see a black person, they would hurl a racial epitheph. And I'll tell you something happened to me recently, and I think we may have talked about this day because I.
Wrote about it online. So when I was seven years old, I was I lived in Teeneck, New.
Jersey at the time. When I was walking home from Longfellow. I was walking home. I was walking to meet my mother. She was working at the Elston Howard Art Gallery on Cedar Lane and Teaneck and I was walking back from Longfellow Elementary School and somebody slowed down their vehicle, yelled the END word, and threw an ice cream cone and hit me right in the face. And it was terrifying because I didn't know what I was getting hit by.
And I ran to my mother crying, And when we got home my father his solution was to bring me to a dojo the next day to roll me in karate. And I could never figure out what I was supposed to do with like you know, to fend off a flying ice cream cone with learning at kata.
But that was the scar scarring event and and it's a it's.
A part of who I was, so that that word is embedded in my psyche.
Let's rush too. I think it was about three months ago.
I was walking my dog a couple of houses down from my home and a car slowed down and a person.
Yelled the N word drove away.
My body froze because I was expecting something a projectile.
I was just so shocked. I was holding my phone as a matter of.
Fact at the time, and when I called Sheriff Falco a few minutes after this, he said, did you get a picture? And I was like, you know what, Sheriff, I just was in shock. I wasn't even thinking. I forgot that I was holding my phone. That kind of hatred that's been, you know, just just a part of the unfortunate atmosphere in our country is more pervasive now almost than it ever has been, because it's being licensed from the top. The person that gave Dana that advice
now is the president. The person that gave the same mentality is the director, is the Secretary of Education. That same mentality is the Secretary of HUD That same mentality is the Attorney General of the United States of America. So it's it's poisoned and the hoods are off, it's it's fashionable, it's actually profitable.
So we have a lot, a lot of work.
And once again though I do believe that the black community holds we've cracked the code because out of this we'll give you gospel. Out of this will give you R and B. Out of this will give you wrap. Out of this will give you artwork. Out of this
will give you the Southern civil rights movement. But we need gospel, and we need the Southern civil rights movement now more than ever before, because these flames will, well, this will incinerate everybody, because the people who come at you with the N word, they're not going to give you a good job. They're not going to respect their daughters. They're gonna they're they're they're the Epstein class. Actually, this the Epstein class is the ones that take this rage and bank it.
Well, it's well taken, guy. It's gonna take a break. But I want to squeeze in one last question before we do. So so much to talk about, but I have to be aware of time, and we've got a great additional guest coming on for the last portion of our program. Uh, but something and it's interesting, And you mentioned Niak and I guess, known as one of the more progressive villages in the area, certainly has a strong black presence, always has. But I'm concerned with the fact
that we don't always mix. Even sometimes when the neighborhoods are mixed, A lot of our social events tend to be, generally speaking, attended by one or the other and rarely mix. Why is that? And what can we do about that? Doctor Dana, why don't you take that first?
I can hear my pastor saying, one of the most segregated hours in the country is eleven o'clock or twelve o'clock, whatever time folks go to church, right, And.
I'm not sure.
That I'm not sure that anything can be done about that, because in some instances, I really think it is just a cultural consequence. Right. I can remember when I was in undergraduate school and all the black people sat together in the ratty that's what we call the cafeteria, all together in the cafeteria, and all the white people sat everywhere else. And coming from tapan See High School, that was a little odd to me, I have to admit.
But then when when I thought about it and understood that this was a group of people that were in a different space away from their home and migrated to people that had that first of all, looked like them, right, and that they were most comfortable with, I would venture to say, and had some sort of similarities that they could have had with those who were white, but they didn't really know that yet, right, So they aggregated together until they felt like they were in a safe enough space two.
To move outward.
So so looking at that now, as you said, we're adults, we've lived life, we have experiences, and there are still some intentional segregated spaces. I'm not sure how that how we break down those silos. I think that here in Rockland, or at least in the River Valley, the River villages, it is not as severe, at least that's my experience of that. But I'm not sure what the answer to
that is. So it's been a little bit puzzling when you know, when you look beyond the cultural significance of being with people that look like.
You and you just feel a little bit more safe.
Yeah, possibly a topic of the future. Bill your thoughts and then we'll go to a break.
Well.
Yeah, when we.
When we were in that film that I was a part of about the destruction of Jackson Avenue called What Happened to Jackson Avenue, I.
Reflected on the fact that Nayak.
Is it's not segregated, but it's not integrated, and people have corrected me on that, and it's it's interesting and I guess gives us some maybe direction to look towards. That's true of the adults, but it's not true of our young people. I've heard many people tell me that Nyak High School is one of the most radically integrated kind of student bodies location, that like, the students that go there are just.
I don't know. I haven't gone into the lunch.
Room and seeing if there's you know, the black table and the Latino table in the Haitian table. But I think that there's something to that that is within a public school system that gives everybody a chance, there's a possibility for everybody to be together. But when we leave public school and we enter this system where we're competing for limited resources, everything starts to change, and Nayak might not always be this you know, bubble, this bastion because
of affordability. There are people who are living in substandard housing a Nayak that are paying rents that would be mortgages in other counties in New York State. Even the folks that are that are at the lowest end of the economic spectrum, who are the people of color who make this place diverse? And so many people will sell you, they tell you they move to Nayak because it's diverse.
Well, that might not be a reason for people to move to Nag much longer.
Because also in that same documentary What Happened to Jackson Avenue, when Perry said that the gentrification that started during urban renewal has accelerated, It's not the bulldozer anymore. It's affordability. People just can't afford to live here if they're not wealthy. And even those people who are servicing the wealthy, like my grandmother bought a house as a maid.
How many maids do you think are buying houses in twenty twenty five six? None. It's not happening. So we got to go back to those days.
Guys, points all very well taken. This one's been a while so far, really appreciate everything. This has been really truly intelligent conversation. Uh great, So much more to come. We haven't even really talked about the video, as I call it, and we'll spend some time with that and why it's important to preserve black history and how we might be able to do that. We also got a really special guest coming in and announce his song. It's
Andrew Ascreenspan of Living Rough and Hanging Tough Fame. He's gonna debut his new single, Beautiful that's all coming up right after these brief commercial messages. This is Being Frank. I'm your host, Frank Leborno will be right back. Please don't go anywhere. This has been great.
This is Hudson River Radio dot com, Hudson River Radio dot com. This is Hudson Riverradio dot com. This is Hudsonriverradio dot com.
Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation podcast. Thanks for sticking with us. I'm your hosts Frank Gubono and as always our engineer as the mailman, mister Neil Richter. We bring our audience a fresh topic every week and we stream from Hudson River Radio, located and beautiful and historic Stony Point, New York. But remember, you can catch Being Frank anywhere you get your favorite podcasts like Apple, Spotify,
iHeartRadio and all the others. And because every Being Frank is archived, you can listen to any of our programs anytime you like. You can find a link to Being Frank on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page or at our website Hudson Radio dot com. Just click and you're there. We're back. It's Being Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Remember we bring our audience fresh topic every week, and it's archives, so you can catch the program anywhere and anytime you like it. If you enjoy this, you might
enjoy my writing. I have my own blog ww dot talk, dash Frank dot blogspot dot com. I also write at medium dot com and every Friday I publish an opinion column with NYAK News and Views. This has been truly intelligent conversation with my two guests, doctor Daana Stilly and Will mister William I like that he's got that formal title. Mister Bill Batson. I have been with us from the beginning and we're talking African American history and it's been
absolutely terrific. And we're going to wrap up our conversation and after that, still don't go anywhere. We've got a really special guest for you, the living rough hanging tough man, mister Andrew A screen Span, will join us to debut his new single Beautiful. You're going to enjoy it, so
please don't go anywhere. Let's continue our conversation. We've kind of I didn't want to make it the focus of our conversation because it shouldn't be, but of course we have to talk about what I call the video because there's no other way to describe it. People have tried to defend it, and as much as I enjoy free speech and people are entitled to their opinion, they should do it knowing that there's no way to couch it.
It is a racist video. Again, you could call it this one man's opinion, but I would certainly challenge you to defend your opinion if you did not see it as such. But again that's my opinion, in a white man's opinion. I'd like to know from someone who really could really hit home, and we'll begin with doctor Danis Stilly when you first your first impression of seeing that video, and then take it from there, please.
When I first thought was so angry I was. I was literally walking around my living room just trying to breathe because I was so angry. I think we all have known for some time how racist mister Trump is and can be, but I feel like there was no mistake. First of all, that it was done during Black History Month. He has repeatedly shown his disdain for the Obamas, and I think that that's jealousy or envy, but to use such a dehumanizing old trope to depict them was just so.
Angering.
It just it just brought back a flood of emotions that I think that that I have tried to get over.
Right, So earlier we were talking about microaggressions.
I know that they happened, and sometimes I'm witty enough to respond, and sometimes I just let them go. But to see the President of the United States of America allow that to be posted and then refuse to take it down and say that it was not a mistake that it was shown, and then lie basically and say that it was supposed to show him being the king of the jungle and then being in the jungle for Lion King. Well, if you've seen Lion King, you know that there are no apes in Lion King, right.
So it's more like l y I n K. Yes, yes, yes, I hear you.
So he was just, you know, a reminder of.
The trauma that black people have had to endure over the four hundred plus years, and even now in twenty twenty six, people cannot let.
Cannot let that go.
They still think and want others to believe that that that is who we are, that we're beasts that were animals, that were untrained.
Anger.
Bill, your thoughts please, Yeah, I had, I had all those feelings, and I think that what really makes it difficult is that there's an attempt to suggest over repeated by by.
This administration thinks that by repeating a lie and making it a big lie, it somehow becomes the truth. Now there is a theory, a school of thought where that came from. I think the gentleman's name is Himler. But there is a whole science to lying, and they've really brought line to a high art. But what really makes that.
That reference and that the representation.
Of the Obamas as somehow animals and somehow non human. What makes it so galling is that the Obamas aren't in the Epstein files. The Obamas had a marriage that survived. The Obamas have wonderful, successful children who are not prospering by anyone's money but their own talent. They are the example that Americans really could benefit from emulating.
And I think that.
That is where the jealousy comes from that doctor Stilly mentioned earlier. But what I really think it's all about is this is like, you know, a magician using misdirection to accomplish theft. There's nothing enlightened about what's going on on. There's cash being extracted from the American treasury, numbers that have never been seen before, and there's an effort.
To get us to not pay attention to it.
So anytime that there's something that is really bothering this administration in the news cycle, they will drop in. And Americans have, unfortunately, for years and generations, been programmed to fall for this bait. So we just jump at the shiny racist object every time it's dangled before us.
So we don't notice.
The ice buying warehouses all over the country getting ready for mass incarceration. We don't notice ice approaching the Haitian community in Springfield. We don't notice cryptocurrency, you know, deregulation.
We don't notice measles epidemics and and breaking out in some of these facilities where people are being held.
We don't notice that Liam wasn't the only child, but there's actually a jail called the Kiddy Jail. We've become desensitized to these things and we're just not paying attention. So, you know, we should all feel the body blow of the disrespect that's being afforded to a former president by this administration. But you know, then we should really be prepared to ask the question again is to when a price is coming down and when are the full Epstein.
Files being released?
Because that is really the most important.
Meme that that is to be remembered.
Any other meme that comes about that knocks that off of the top of our you know, attention.
It's really just there to distract us.
And I'm happy to say, Frank that.
Quickly, a relatively quickly, any of the people that I'm associated with, at least on Facebook and the Black community, said nope, we're not sharing this, And if they had shared it, they took it down and instead put up thousands of pictures of the Obamas and all of their glory.
Right.
So I love that the response to that, that that what was really meant to be long term harm was quickly turned around and we once again were embracing the the Obamas and all that they did for the country and all that they still stand for in the black community.
Well, since since this Blackastrey Month, I'll just give a quote, because doctor King has a quote for everything truth pressed to the ground rises.
And I have one for you from one of my favorites to Frederick Douglass that that'll be coming up. You can't go wrong with either one of those two, gentlemen. Oh, guys, guys, there's so much more to talk about. Honestly, this has truly been intelligent conversation. We could go for another hour, but I have Andrew Ace patiently waiting in the wings and with some great music, and I do want to
get to him. But I really do want to thank doctor Dana Stilly and mister Bill Batson for really your intelligent conversation, absolutely terrific.
We won't next, we won't wait till next year. Frank, we'll see We'll see you in June for.
Juneteenth. You know you guys are always welcome here. I'm serious, this has been great. We could continue this for another hour, so many more topics to go on, but we'll get to andrew A. So guys, again, thank you very much. Let me do my thank yous now and then well we will get to Andrew. Of course, you know, we offer special thanks to our listeners. They take time to give us a voice in their lives. We offer a
fresh topic every week. Catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts, check us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. As I mentioned, I have a comment quote if you will is more appropriate, not a comment. It's a quote from one of my personal heroes and favorites, Frederick Douglass. And then we're going to hear from Andrew Ace. But first, Frederick Douglas said, power and those in control concede nothing without a demand. He never have and never will.
Each and every one of us must keep demanding, must keep fighting, must keep thundering, must keep plowing, must keep on keeping things struggling. Must speak out and speak up until justice has served. Because where there is no justice, there is no peace. Love it all right? What's set up? That is Andrew Ace. Now you got to try to welcome back Andrew and you have for people. Let me remind you you were a guest once when you talked
about your inspirational journey from addiction to recovery. You continue it with a new song. Please tell us about your new song, Beautiful.
Thanks for having me on, Frank.
Beautiful is my latest single.
Came out February tenth this week, and I wrote this song that I wanted to release it during the season of Love and Valentine's so people could share with the ones they love most. And I wrote this about someone that I wanted to find. It wasn't about a particular person. And yeah, it's really just that it's a new song that I wanted to experiment with, non recovery related. So I hope people enjoy it, especially during this holiday.
What do you hope people will cut take from it when they hear what emotion would you hope that they hear within the song?
Andrew?
I hope they'll feel really uplifted and positive and it'll just bring them joy.
Andrew a screenspan. Thank you so much. We're going to hear your song beautiful in just a minute. For an engineer. You know him, he's the mailman. I'm your host, Frank Born. We hope to have you join us on the next being Frank, We're the only way to be is Frank. Here's beautiful.
Everyone.
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