Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Frank. Hold be Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. Hello, and welcome to Being Frank. We're the only way to be is the course, Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lagono, and we'd like to thank you for joining us here. We like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. You know, time is valuable, People are busy, competition is fears so many podcasts, but we like to think of ourselves as an alternative to all that
noise. So we really appreciate you spending at least some of your day with Being Frank. We stream from Hudson River Radio dot com and beautiful historic Stony Point, New York, where the mailman he always delivers. Mister Neil Richter is our engineer. He keeps us going. But remember that's our home base. But you can download us wherever and whenever you listen to your favorite podcasts. That includes iHeartRadio, spot by Apple Speaker, and all the others.
You can find those links on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page, and please think about becoming a subscriber, and you can leave us a comment too. We also have our own website, Hudson River Radio dot com with listen all the great shows and there are a lot of really interesting ones there. We're there as well. I think on the left side about the second or third tab down. Click on that and you get to the Being franklink and you can listen to any of our podcasts at any time. And if you like
the program, please consider sharing it with family and friends. It helps, It really does like to get the word out. Being Frank brings our audience a new topical program every week, beginning on Thursdays. But remember listening to your convenience. Every program is archives, so you can listen to any Being Frank virtually anytime you want. We think it's the intelligent thing to do. Again, for context and reference, we are going live to tape on the
twenty first of September. Summer's almost over, kids all this weekend, so a lot of change in the air, if you'll indulge in a minute. I want to read some statistics because September is suicide Awareness Prevention month and the statistics are telling and staggering. Let me read them to you and then we'll discuss them with our guest. Suicide rates increased approximately thirty six percent between two
thousand and twenty twenty one. Suicide was responsible for forty eight thousand, one hundred and eighty three deaths in America in twenty twenty one, which is about one death every eleven minutes. The number of people who think about or attempt suicide is even higher. In twenty twenty one and estimated, twelve point three American adults seriously thought about suicide, three point five million actually planned a suicide
attempt, and another one point seven million attempted suicide. And suicide effect people of all ages. Again when this study was commissioned in twenty twenty one, and it's gotten worse, Suicide was among the top nine leading causes of death for people ages ten through sixty four. Suicide was the second leading cause of death for people ages ten to fourteen and twenty to thirty four. Some groups
have higher set side rates than others. We'll discuss that, and suicide rates vary by race, ethnicity, age, and other factors, including such things as where someone lives. And here I thought it was another incredibly telling statistic. It's not an American phenomenon, it's a world phenomenon because globally, one in every one hundred deaths is a suicide. It's extraordinary and staggering. So
now joining us once again to discuss these statistics. Is the best selling author of Some Assembly Required and Roots and Wings, Mindful Parenting and Recover Recovery. Excuse me. He's also a frequent contributor to Psychology Today. He's a therapist and longtime friend Dad Major. Dan, thank you so much for joining us once again. Who were here earlier talking about your specialty addiction and we did talk a little bit about addiction within that framework, but we want to expand
a little bit about on that this evening. Thank you for joining us, my pleasure friend. Thank you for having me. Always delighted to be here and to be able to contribute to intelligent conversation. Thank you well said, Oh my god, you think we might use that one as a commercial mark? Mark mark that one, Neil. Thank you, Dan. We appreciate it. But it's a serious topic, so we'll get serious. And the numbers, as we said, are staggering and sobrine, to say the least.
The statistics showed the increase, and those are from twenty twenty one from the CDC. The Center for Disease Control, and some of the numbers that are coming out now with some recent studies show that it's increased, it's gotten even worse. Then why why why are we why are people increasingly towards turning towards the ultimate, if you will, end, which is suicide. It's
staggering. Well, ultimately, Frank, I think, I think the increase in suicide is a manifest and suicide related behaviors is a manifestation of the increased complexity that most people experience in life, and in turn, related to that, the increased stress, anxiety, and depression that so many people experience.
Uh And and you know the first stat that you read and uh And, although there's there's some statistics that are more recent than twenty twenty one, twenty twenty one is the most recent full year for which complete data is available. And and you know, so, as you said, between two thousand and twenty twenty one, the rate of suicide in the US increased by over a third thirty six percent. Now, during that period, also it correlates with
the emergence of smartphones and social media. And I'm not going to suggest that those are the primary causes, but the correlation is very compelling. And you know, smartphones because because you know, people now carry carry computers that are more sophisticated and powerful than anything you and I had on our desks in the late eighties through the nineteen nineties. Basically, and social media where where ironically, when the when the real intention of those technologies seem to be to connect
people more closely together and with the world. Ultimately, it seems to frequently have the reverse effect and isolate people further. And so social media has the ability to connect people. You know, for instance, you and I, you know, we've known each other since the since the early nineteen eighties, and you know, we can connect with each other easily and conveniently, you know, via Facebook for example, we do. Yeah, And that's that's
that's the way exactly. It's a wonderful beneficial use of social media. But for so many people, even though theoretically there's the opportunity to connect with people from all walks of their life, it ends up resulting in so many people feeling disconnected and isolated because the interactions are are two dimensional and their cursory and
superficial for them for the most part. And then you have the entire universe of trolling and you know, people behaving so horrifically, abusively and sadistically, you know, and and there's the entire dynamic of online bullying. And so I want to talk a little bit forgive me, Dan and because at that moment, because it just came to my mind. Also, there's a saw a recent commercial. There's a new organization, Mothers Against cyber Bullying forgive me.
I don't think that's the correct name, but kind of making the point is that there has been no legislation, no effort to protect children from cyber bullying, which they leads to these astronomical numbers of kids hurting themselves, killing themselves because of so called cyber bullying. So, you know, comments a little bit on that. Again, we talked about the positive, the connections we can make, but the isolation, and then beyond the isolation, the
deliberate trolling and the effect that it has on young people. It's kind of frightening. Yeah, And the online anonymity seems to, you know, embolden so many people to act in ways that they might very well not if there
were in person interactions. And you know, the bullying and the trolling, the The primary effects that it has are mental and emotionally in terms of, you know, contributing to increases in anxiety, to decreases in self esteem and any meaningful sense of self worth, increases in sadness and depression, feelings of worthlessness, and more than more than depression, suicide is driven by profound, deep seated feelings of worthlessness and that you know, there's there's nothing for me
here, there are no positive contributions for me, for me to make. I can't catch a break. So after all, what is you know, what is what is the point which you know, people get People get caught in these these uh vicious circles where where they're where their negative feelings, these you know, deeply painful feelings of low self worth get amplified and they go round and round and get worse as people as as people go, and you
know, so so they become increasingly isolated socially. And you know, I think it was I forget the name of the woman who's whose quote, uh uh it whose quote is attributed in this way, But it's actually a meme that I've seen, and it says comparison is an act of violence against the self and and and while some people may not really appreciate what that means or feel it's an over dramatization, the more I've thought about it, the more
validity I think it has insofar as as comparing ourselves to other people, you know, especially on online online platforms, you know, the whole the whole spectrum of them, you know, people living these seamlessly, seamless, seemingly
beautiful, glamorous, wealthy, successful lives. And I think it's natural and normal for people to look at that and and, depending upon how well they're doing or not doing uh in comparison, feel like rap, you know, quite quite quite frankly, and to wonder, well, what is it that I'm doing wrong? What is it about me that is that isn't good enough, that isn't enough to have any semblance of this sort of apparent success. And you know, there are a couple of couple of dynamics at play there.
We know that, you know, what's presented online often is superficial and inaccurate. It certainly isn't the whole story. But also it's that that act of comparison, which I think is a function of human nature, that that amplifies how you know, when people feel negatively or poorly about themselves, it pours gas on what maybe burning embers or perhaps a small fire at that point that helps to ignite a conflagration. Dan, you mentioned human nature, and
that's always fascinated me in part of this discussion. So let's flip that coin. There are the people who are affected by the trolls, and then there are the trolls. What motivates someone to find pleasure in causing damage to other people, especially anonymously like that. It seems so craven and cowardly to most normal thinking people, I would think, But yet there are so many people that obviously gain some type of perverse pleasure out of doing that. Where does
that come from? What's happening there? That's that's a that's a great question, you know of one of the but in a really unhealthy, unfortunate way. One of the most common ways for people to feel better about themselves is to put other people down, you know, and and uh and you know, portray themselves by virtue of putting someone else down, by by being critical, abusive, cruel, and so forth. They put they put themselves up.
But it really that ultimately it comes from a place of insecurity and because if they you know, people who truly have a sense of security and a healthy self esteem and sense of self worth, they don't need to put other people down. You know, it's you know, we can we can be critical, Uh, we can disagree, you know, ideally the you know, if we're critical, we want to be as constructive as as possible to
attack people in a way. That rule and uh, and you know it deeply unkind sadistic that that is, that is a function of of of real unhappiness, you know, and and and and and and one way unhappiness plays out is that you know that that idea that misery loves company, and so people tend to take out their own unhappiness by spilling it over onto other people.
And you know, it kind of attracts to that adage that hurt people hurt people, people who are who are hurt, who are wounded in various ways, which every which everyone is to an extent, you know, no one, no one grows up without some degree of damage. But how people how people deal with that, how they react to it or or respond onto it, and do work intentionally to heal in connection with it, varies, varies, dramatically. Some people grow beyond it. Some people are effectively held
captive by it throughout their lives. Well, you know, it's a perfect segue into a point that I wanted to make, or the number two points that we made in our opening with the statistics that how many people think about suicide? And even though the number was here was put in twenty twenty, an estimated twelve point three million Americans seriously considered or thought about suicide that might
have been for the year. Is it kind of safe to say then that at some point in virtually all of our lives, that thought, when we've been so down, so miserable, that that thought hasn't at least flashed into the front of our minds. I mean, is that hyperboles that kind of most of us have had that experience. I you know, I don't think it's hyperbole, frank in that in that over the course of a person's lifetime, I think I think more people than not, if not the majority of
people. It the idea crosses their cognitive screen. It it crosses their their thought their thought stream at one point or another. And uh, you know, like like especially when people are young, you know, you know, teenagers, in particular, young adults trying to find their way in the world. Who the hell am I? How do I fit in to? You know, to wonder, you know, and what what's it worth? And you know, I'm gonna We're gonna die anyway, so so what's so what's
the point? And sometimes kids, you know, much younger, like you know, the stats you read included that you know, among kids ages ten to fourteen, the second leading cause of death. But you know, when when people grow up in extreme poverty, when there's homelessness or intermittent homelessness, when people live in dangerous circumstances and are subjected to to abuse and violence, whether that's predominantly physical or verbal and emotional, and you know, and there
they live in a state of ongoing trauma. To think about it is not is not surprising, but also there is there is a real range that's important to be aware of when it comes to suicidal thinking. So called suicidal ideation is the is the clinical term, and and it differentiates between for example, you know, I'd rather not I'd rather not be here. What's the point? You know, I I wish I could just not wake up tomorrow morning?
Kind of thing which is very passive. In contrast, too, I'm seriously thinking about doing something to self harm or or or in my life, and that that actually gets if that's okay to to uh, how to how to tell if someone is at at at real, at real risk that you know that I do professionally, I've I've had to hospitalize clients from time to time who were at at genuine risk of hurting themselves. You know, it's
something that you avoids as much as as much as possible. But but with this assessment outline, so to say, anyone can get a sense of the extent to which someone may be at greater risk. Is that okay to go with that? Yeah, well, let's let's do that. It's perfect. It was on my list to ask, but there was no particular order. As the conversation comes up, let's go with it because it's very important. Also, when do people cross that line? Is it something that others can
be aware of? What is it? What is it that we should look for? Then? Well, just two really, aside from the things that we've talked about, the two most most important and greatest risk factors are include previous attempts. If someone has made an actual attempt to hurt themselves in a way where they could kill themselves, where they a suicide attempt, they're they're
at much greater risk than someone who has never made an attempt. And when people have made one attempt, it's it's more likely than not that there be a second attempt at some point, although that you know, sometimes sometimes one is enough for people. But the single greatest risk factor, and this is so important for people to be aware of, is having an extremely close relative,
most notably a parent who has committed suicide. That automatically puts people at much much greater risk to seriously consider it, to make an attempt and and to actually do it than any other risk factory by far, because it normalizes it, it makes it seem like a reasonable option. And parents, i mean kids tend to become like their parents in various ways, take on some
of their qualities and attributes as they get older. Anyway, it's a psychological process called identification, and sometimes it happens by virtue of you know, some of it may be genetic, some of it is is social learning and observation, but some of it also is the the need, the desire to be
like one's parents to connect with them in that in that particular way. So that's you know, when when people are are thinking about it and they have kids, that that hopefully can give them some very serious pause as you know, they may if if they didn't have kids, all right, then then then they might think more seriously about it. But knowing that it automatically puts their kids at much greater risk and is so damaging to kids, it leaves
this really horrific legacy of additional damage and and and wounded. So for what about actual behaviors? And I mean, because we all get depressed if that's what goes without saying where you know, real, I'm really down today, you know. And that's one thing is again, is there some kind of and it doesn't necessarily have to be obvious, but some kind of line to
look for. That's that a young or any person that you're familiar with is exhibiting certain behaviors that should be of greater concern than just yeah, you're a little depressed. The sun will come up tomorrow. You know, you can look for any number of means. The sun will come up tomorrow. Sun always comes out, And that's one thing. But that's what not necessarily with someone who's contemplating suicide really wants to hear. So, what are what can
we look for in people that say we've got to do something here? Well, so so that you know, assessment that rough assessment outline. So to what extent is someone thinking or have they thought about trying trying to kill themselves? And you know, sometimes people think when they see someone who's you know, someone who they care about, who's depressed or struggling, seeming to withdraw and socially isolate, well, I don't want to I don't want to ask
because maybe it'll put the thought in their head. And that's bullcrapt that will. That will. No one can ever get someone to think about suicide if they aren't already. So, so asking if some you know, are you are you thinking about hurting yourself? Are you thinking about killing yourself? It will never If it's not there, they'll simply they'll simply say no. And if it is there, then it's then then you know, then then it's
important information that you can begin the process of potentially doing something with. But so so, if if they if they if they answer in the affirmative to suicidal thoughts, then do they have a specific plan, So is just just a thought, you know, again a passive I'd rather not not be here, the world would be better without me. I'd rather just you know, go to sleep and not wake up, or or yeah, I'm I'm I'm thinking of walking into traffic or getting a gun, or hanging myself. So
is you know, is there a specific plan? And then the next step is how lethal is that? Is that plan? You know, walking out into traffic obviously pretty lethal, hanging potentially very lethal, a gun absolutely, drug, drug overdose, That's that that's you know, not quite as as as definite do And then do they have access to the ability to carry out
that plan? So, if for instance, someone says, well, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna lay down on a train track, but they don't live anywhere near where there's a train, you know, they're they're fifty or one hundred miles away from the nearest train, then they're at somewhat less risk if they have thoughts but not a specific plan. They're at less risk
if they have a specific plan. But it's like, well, you know, i'm my my my plan is that I'm going to get my dog to lick me to death, because because there are germs and the dog saliva, you know, you have to you know, there's less to worry about there than with with a with a plan with a high degree of lethality. And then after all that access including access to the means to carry the plan out. How committed are they? Is this something that they're still just thinking about
or are they intent when doing it? And you know, I don't know if it was at our our our our preface or at the beginning, but one of the things you were interested in knowing was, you know, why is it that boys males tend to commit suicide? Questions mails, Well, it's it's almost a trick question insofar as as females actually attempt suicide more frequently than males, But males are better at it. And there's there's, there's and and that, and there's there's no uh, there's no sexism there.
It's it's simply that the means that males use, as a generalization, tends to be more lethal. Specifically, men use guns much more frequently than women do, and obviously guns have a very high degree of lethal And that leads me to another question. That's loving this conversation. Why do some people choose gruesome I mean downright gruzo. I my girlfriend I tease each other, you know, if I get to the point where you know, I'm so old and feeble, and I'll say, you can do me in, but just
don't make it violent, you know that kind of thing. Yet some people seem to choose methods that are exceptionally violent. You mentioned walking into traffic. I mean there are stories of people who'll actually go in front of a train. Just the very thought of it is horrifying. And so it's not only the act of ending, it's doing it in a way that's so dramatic and violent. Is that a statement that someone is making. Tell us a little
more about that, Well, that's that's also an excellent question. Sometimes it's a statement. Sometimes it's just what occurred to them. But typically, you know, from a psychological perspective, there's a there's there's a you know a degree of correlation between how violent the method is and the extent to which uh they want to uh do themselves, do themselves complete damage. They want to truly destroy themselves because they dislike themselves and their lives. They're in so much
pain to that extent. You know, for instance, I had a I had a friend. This was probably in the nineties, so so we were in our early to mid thirties, and he was a friend who I actually went to kindergarten with him and a dear friend from high school. And among other things, he got, you know, he got horrifically strung out on crack uh and and even with several episodes of treatment, didn't seem to be
able to overcome it. And he ended up parking his car behind the supermarket, you know, on in the little town that we grew up in on Long Island and stabbing himself in the heart, plunged a knife into his chest,
which is which is a really uncommon way to kill oneself. But the extent to which he must have disliked himself, been in so much pain and wanted to do that kind of damage to himself is uh is really profound, you know, and with and with with and so you know, sometimes people will do it in places where they know they're going to be found by a family member, you know. Sometimes it's a partner, sometimes it's a it's
a child. And and you can't you can't unsee something like that. You know, psychologically, for in terms of traumatic experience, you can't unwring that bell when when say, someone blows their brains out and and a partner or a child finds that and then you know, and that takes place in one's in one's home home environment, that's you know, so the legacy that that kind of thing leaves to those that are left behind, I think, you know, partly it's it may be you know, some a function of of
you know, of of wanting everyone to know the kind of pain that that they were in and uh and and that this was what they had to do in a very attention arresting sort of way. But also it's it's an indication of their being. So they had so much funnel vision that that this was the only thing they could think to do, and it was the way that they that they did it. So I think that it can it can go either of those ways. Jennu mentioned how important ego is a sense of self
worth. How do we balance and we had a little fun before we both came on. We came on the ear both big sports fans, and we were talking about Dion Sanders, who has a very uh I'll put it into kindly healthy ego, and I related a story we don't necessarily have to stay here, which is kind of the the extreme. But what makes for a healthy ego A good a truly healthy sense of self, which what should people look for in themselves and others to actually say, well, that's kind of
a healthy human being. Wow, that's uh. We we could we could spend a couple of episodes on on that alone, Frank, But ultimately it comes down to being able to accept oneself. And you know, so again, as I mentioned before, everyone, everyone has various wounds. Everyone has degrees of of emotional and experiential damage. And and and it begins from the time that we're very young, and and and our wounds, these they become, you know, they manifest as inner demons of sorts, and they take
the form of things that have happened to us throughout our lives. But again, starting from the time that we were very young, things that we have done, our own acts, our own behaviors, including to other people, and things about ourselves and our lives, which can include our physical appearance, limitations that we may that we may legitimately have, you know, health issues, disabilities, other other kinds of challenges, and so you know, the
way that most people deal with their with their various wounds or their their inner demons is on two extremes. They avoid them or refuse to acknowledge them. You know, they're they're in denial and connection with them, or they fight with them. They're they're overwhelmed by them. They engage them in a continuous battle, which you know plays out through conflict with other people, through through violent or reckless or aggressive behaviors, through alcohol and other drug use, various
various problematic ways. But it's also you know, people can only avoid that stuff to a certain extent. Avoidance as a strategy only only works temporarily. It's kind of like the release valve and a pressure cooker. You know. The longer we avoid, we avoid the stuff we don't want to deal with.
But that doesn't mean it goes away. In fact, it's it's there gaining strength effectively, and at a certain point it comes out in explosive ways, and people will experience the kinds of problems that I mentioned when they get
overwhelmed by them. But the path to a healthy sense of self is a middle path where we recognize, are consciously aware of our wounds, our various inner demons, and we allow ourselves we acknowledge them consciously, we allow ourselves to be present with them to learn how to and effectively practice having tea or coffee with them, ultimately making peace with them, you know, and and there are there are so many different different methodologies that help to facilitate that,
some of which are self directed and can you know, include things like meditation and other mindfulness practices, yoga, uh you know, tai chi chi and and and so forth. You know, professional professional forms of therapy and and and you know, a wide range of different practices that help people become effectively become more comfortable in their own skin at at cognitive, emotional, physical, and spiritual levels. Spiritual pursuits are very important in this regard as well.
And so it's through so making peace with the things about ourselves that we struggle with again, things that have happened to us, things that we've done, things about ourselves, these inner demons, making peace with them is the path
to self acceptance at depth. And that to me, you know, after thirty five years of being in the field of psychotherapy and in various ways, represents perhaps the very deepest form of of healing, you know, to truly come to terms with and and learn how to make peace with ourselves at depth. And that you know, and and that said, it's not a it's not a destination. This is the work of a lifetime. It's ongoing,
you know. And we can be good for for weeks or months, and then you know, some sort of stuff hits the fan and we struggle a little bit, and it becomes a process of trying to regain that balance, course correct in various ways, so we're good again. You know, there's
a lot of there's a lot of talk. You know, I'm in I'm in twelve step recovery myself or over sixteen years now and in my particular twelve Step fellowship, and and and in various places you know, you here talk about self love and learning to love oneself and so forth and so on and uh and and this is my own line, by the way, to me, self love is something that happens in the shower, the real the real work, you know, do do I I can get to a place where
I love certain things about myself, certain aspects of who I am and how I am. But I think I think self love that whole, the whole, the whole. Uh. Language of it is is overblown and cliche and not necessarily helpful. I think the real work is about self acceptance to a much greater extent, and to me that feels more more real and more realistic, you know, and and and part of it is practicing self compassion, you know, being as kind, caring, generous of spirit, and compassionate
with myself as I would be of someone who I care about. You know, so often we treat ourselves much more poorly than we would treat people that we care about, in terms of how we think about ourselves, the way we feel about ourselves, and so forth. Dan, we'll take a little break here. This has been fabulous. When we come back, I would talk about some of the practical resources that are available to people who need help. I know they are. How do people reach out, where can they
go things of that nature. You sear a lot about suicide hotlines and stuff, so I know there are resources available where people can reach out and how important it is to reach out. We'll talk a little bit about that on the tail end of this commercial break, so we'll be right back. Guys. My guest is therapist and bestselling author Danny Major. It is Suicide Prevention Awareness Month, and we're having a really intelligent conversation about suicide, about life
really, because it's it's all a part of it. This is being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono will be right back raft right after these grief commercial messages. Don't go anywhere yet. This is Hudson River Radio dot com. Bring a dash of green into your life. Check out the Many Shades of Green with Maxine, Margat, Reuben and Malcolm Burman. Get informed about environmental issues and current events
that affect us all. Pick a shade of green and raise your eco consciousness with the Many Shades of Green available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You ought to be in movies, well, at least you should watch movies. The silver Screen Podcast talks about all aspects of film and entertainment, current films, old films, how movies are made,
and interviews with moviemakers, authors and musicians too. Check out the silver Screen Podcast at Hudson River Radio dot com or wherever you get your podcasts, and go watch a movie Hudson River Radio dot com. You're back with Being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Labono. We're discussing Suicide Prevention Awareness Month with my guest, Dan Major's a therapist and best selling author frequently contributes to Psychology Today. Remember you can
catch Being Frank wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Everything is archives, so you can listen to any show anytime you want. Please check us out. We think we have something to offer and this evening show we're taping this evening whenever you're watching it, we certainly feel has a lot to offer. Dan a couple more things before we finish one. I want to talk a little bit about resources. But before we get to that, and we were talking
about depression and people showing signs discussing possibly hurting themselves. But not too long ago, there have been a number of people in the news who have wound up committing suicide. Anthony Burdaine comes to mind, Robin Williams comes to mind, very successful people who didn't necessarily at least publicly show the outward signs. Yet obviously we're still struggling within. Could there possibly have been some trigger within
that. In other words, looking beyond the success. And obviously success in and of itself is not a cu role for everything because they took the hard way out, if you will, by committing suicide. So is there is there something that we can see that maybe something is wrong even though on the
surface everything seems right. Well, you know, the that your point about how success is no safeguard or protection against against inner turmoil and pain is a really important one, Frank, and it and it really does, you know,
get back to this idea that everyone is wounded in various ways. Everyone has sustained degrees of mental, emotional, spiritual damage on you know, over the course of their lives and and and even with the external trappings of fame, fortune, great great success, unless people do the work, you know, unless they're aware of the importance of doing the work of finding ways to make peace with those with and with and begin to heal those wounds come to
you know, learn how to accept themselves in connection with with them that you know, how how that inner inner pain and turmoil plays out, Uh, you know, can go in various directions, including self harm and suicide. But you know, and it's and it's interesting. You know, the more we we we read after after the fact about Anthony Bourdain and his particular emotional and interpersonal struggles and Robin Williams uh extensive long term struggle with serious depression.
You know, the more the more we had context within which their their suicides became more more comprehensible, you know, not that not that, not that it was, you know, we could understand it in general, but at least it made a little bit more sense. But you know, other you know, significant risk factors include no withdrawing from family and friends, from the
social contacts and connections that people usually maintain. Often there's you know, it's not unusual for people who are seriously alcohol or other drug involved or addictive addicted to have thoughts about suicide or to or to to consider attempting suicide or to or to attempt it. Sometimes it's it's intentional, sometimes less intentional. But often people will increase their alcohol and drug use when they're more serious about suicidal
intent. And that's that's another indication their their behavior may become more reckless or more aggressive as an indicator that they care less about about themselves and what happens to them. And uh and and a telltale sign is someone who you know is not say elderly, or does not have a terminal illness, and they start to give away their possessions. That's a that's an indicator that they have
made a decision and that this is something that they intend to do. As a result, they no longer need whatever it is that they're giving away. Right, So we we we know someone who was exhibiting those behaviors or we might feel them. Who do we reach out to? How do we reach out? What what's the best way to get help? And as quickly as
possible because I know time can be a factor. Well, you know, if anyone who who who is is seriously concerned about their own welfare related to the possibility that they would that they would attempt to take their own lives, or someone who is concerned about someone else, you can always call nine one one and you know, be clear as to your concern that this that that that this person is at significant risk or I am at risk of of of
committing suicide. And you know, you need to be able to provide information related to where where this person can be found and and and almost every police department it will send someone out to do a welfare check and and if they if they get there, you know, the person can be convincing in terms of no, you know, there's no issue here, person overreacted, so forth and so on. But if the police or any first responder in that in that case, you know, they'll ask questions. They know how to
do, they know how to do basic assessments. Also, if they get a sense that someone is at real risk, they will take them to the hospital and potentially involuntarily hospitalized out. You know. But the only thing that can happen at this point in time. People can't be hospitalized involuntarily because it's
a it's a civil rights issue. So so it starts with a seventy two hour involuntary People can always agree to a voluntary admission if they're at that level of risk, but they can be involuntarily hospitalized in almost every state for seventy two hours, and then you know, towards the end of that seventy two hours, their level of risk is reassessed. Depending upon circumstance, they can
be held longer or they can be released at that point. But it's really important for people to be aware of that in the event that they or someone who they care about they sense is at very serious, more urgent risk.
Now, on a personal level, Dan, if you were confronted with someone who was, let's say, virtually in the process of committing suicide with either a weapon or stepping as you said, off into traffic or off of high building or something, or you know someone is in serious distress, what would you recommend to? What could you say? What could you do? Is
there anything? Is there any scientific approach? If you will there is, there isn't There isn't one universally recognized approach, But to you know, make it clear that you are you are going to be present, You're gonna you're not going anywhere, You're going to stay with this person and be emotionally available and and you know, to you know, to be careful of what's said in terms of you listen, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna be here with you, and do you know, I'm gonna do what whatever I need to
do, whatever I can do in order to help keep you safe. And if that means being here, you know, it's not necessarily convenient, but but this is an extreme circumstance or calling for additional assistance. That's that's what's
critical, you know. But it's it's also really important to know that if someone is truly committed to killing themselves, uh, they may well find a way to do it, because again, no one is going to be hospitalized for weeks or months at this point, and no one can be supervised, you know, one hundred percent of the time. So there, so there are limitations to our our ability to control such things. That and that said,
all we can do is is the best we can. But in terms of other resources, Franks, so you know, the National Suicide Hotline is nine eight eight dial nine eight eight. There is someone who will answer the
phone and is trained to deal with these kinds of circumstances. There's the the Suicide Prevention Resource Center, which people can look up online, and that's based at the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, and it's it's funded in part through through the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration of the United States, which is part of the Department of Health in Human Services, you know,
in the in the in the in the federal government, you know. And it's also important just to be a where in general, this is beyond the scope of what most people are able to influence, but there are systemic things that contribute that can contribute either to suicide prevention or to the greater likelihood of suicide. You know, suicide prevention is manifest in things like affordable housing, livable wages, excess healthcare that includes access to mental health and substance abuse treatment.
And the reality is that that those those areas of what can help make a healthy whole and UH and and healed life are often incredibly difficult for many people to find and to and to hold onto it. And I want to thank you so much for being Frank with your intelligent and important conversations evening. This was absolutely terrific, gave so much solid information. I really can't thank you enough. Really, it's uh, you know again, I'm I'm really
happy to be here, Frank. It's it's my pleasure. And you know, any anytime I can contribute to intelligent conversation, I welcome it, because you know, there are so many places where it's really hard to come by. Careful I hold you to that too, And of course we offer special thanks to our listeners who take the time to give us a voice in their lives. It's important it really is, at least it is to me. And remember we offer a fresh topic every week and you can catch us wherever
and whenever you get your favorite podcasts. Remember we're on Apple, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Speaker and all the others. You can also check us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. Like us, hopefully leave us a comment. We also ask you to consider sharing being frank with others. Well, you know, I love you with two nuggets, as I say, a slogan and some music. First, the slogan is and I think it's very appropriate. It comes from Barack Obama. So whennyone out there who's hurting,
it's not a sign of weakness to ask for help. It's a sign of strength, simple enough. And it's right there, all right. It's some great music from one of my favorite bansies. Guys are great Jerry Scringe, Mike OLIVERI and the boys. Uh they are the Slippery Chickens. And here's their tune, Bad Bad Boy. You're gonna you're really going to enjoy it. Thanks again for being frank with me. I'm your host, Frank
Lebono, and we'll see you next time. Well, I'm a bad pappoll on bad pap boy on the bad papo all A bad back boy will if birds win I be. I'm going to decline it all for you because I'm a bad pep boy. I'm a bad pep boy on the bad path bare all the bad pay boy. We'll take a red seal ball sail phone call. Because I'm a bad papa. I'm a sad papall. I'm sad name before all of fair baball girls have. I put takes on a chair. I do things on a day. I always look out a pair. I
get my hamburgers. Ray up, Oh he's on a chair. I don't have to prayer. I sleep, be in play. Because I'm a bad bad boy. I'm a bad bad boy on the bad bad bad bad boy. I'm a baby Hey hey, hey day, Oh why a baby? Hey hey day? Boy boy booge never boy boy. This is Hudson River Radio dot com.