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Now for those of you who don't qualify, there is still the 10% off using the code BTS10, Behind the Shield 10, for a one time purchase. Now to learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with Joel Titoro and Wes Barnett. Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show Navy SEAL veteran and the co-owner of Defense Strategies Group, Zach Ferguson.
Now what I loved about this conversation as I've had with many, many high level people before is you have a man who is viewed as an alpha. He's an MMA fighter. He is a elite war fighter. And yet in this conversation, you will hear courageous vulnerability. He talks about his own mental health struggles, the addiction that plagued his family, the healing journey that he found within himself with psychedelics that ultimately extended into his family.
And now he has become a beacon of hope for others, especially men who believe in this kind of faux stoicism facade that a lot of us were raised on. Now before he gets this incredibly powerful and important conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.
And this is a free library of well over 1000 episodes now. So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce to you Zach Ferguson. Enjoy. Well, Zach, I want to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend, Ryan Parrott. I listened to the interview that he did with you on Frogman Friday and it was amazing.
And since then, obviously, he's made this connection. And secondly, I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. Thanks a lot, James. Yeah, thanks a lot, Bergman for having me on that podcast. Check it out. And James, thanks. Thanks a lot for having me on the Shield. So to share my story with your viewers and hit home with them hard. You know, maybe give something they've never heard before. Absolutely. Well, where on planet Earth are we finding you today?
So we're trying to cut out here. No problem. Where on planet Earth are we finding you today? Today? Where am I today? Sorry, the last part. That's OK. Where are we finding you today? Oh, today. I'm in Orange County, California. I was born and raised here. Families from Boston, Charlestown, Massachusetts. And most of my family's over there, but my immediate family is here in Orange County. So it's good to be back home after leaving the military.
Well, let's start the very beginning of your timeline then. I spent some time in Orange County. I worked for Anaheim Fire and I lived in Huntington Beach for a few years. So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did and how many siblings. So I was born at Kaiser Hospital in Anaheim, California, and family dynamic. My dad had a pretty rough upbringing, like looked at the projects in Boston and like left his house when he was 14.
And he met my mom, who's a little bit younger. And then he basically his whole family's basically dealing with like, you know, oxy addiction, robbing banks, armed robberies. So a lot of them got hemmed up with that stuff. And he wanted to lead that life and, you know, build a new life for his kids. So pretty incredible human being dad. My mom just took a big leap of faith and jumped over here with him. And then they got married here and then been together since.
When you talk to your dad about the environment that he grew up with, what was the kind of origin story? Because, you know, as you know, people don't just wake up one day and decide to be an addict. There's usually trauma and there's a void that's filled and escapism and all these other areas. Have you been able to kind of find the kind of root cause of where his family's pain started from? It's a really good question. I've actually never been asked that before.
So my addiction runs in my dad's side of the family, like as far back as I can remember. It's either like disease wise or the life they live like in the 80s. I don't know if you've seen like the movie The Town with Ben Affleck, then robbing banks with ski masks. I mean, that was like my uncle's a nutshell and I relate a lot to my dad. I'm like both my parents. My dad, I came from a chaotic, thrilling, in a way, energy adrenaline seeking life.
My mom was like grounded, rooted, like motherly, like super nurturing, very kind. Like a mixture of all things. So in a way, I think that chaos threw me into wanting to achieve more or like, yeah, my comfort zone like he did moving here. But as far as deeper cause of where it came from, I don't know exactly. And what about career? What did your mom and dad end up doing? My mom worked at a medical center. My dad came out here and he was a car salesman for most of his life.
He retired probably like four years ago. So he's retired now. He's 71 and my mom is at 65. Brilliant. Well, let's talk about your kind of early life then. What were you playing and doing as far as sports and exercise back in the school ages? So my dad just, he put me in baseball when I was three. That was my first sport. And then soccer shortly after I was playing baseball and soccer from when I was three until I was 14.
And so I was always active riding my BMX bike, going outside, just rolling in the mud, like just being, just being a boy. A lot of sports. It was like pretty much mandatory to at least try new ones and see what you'd like and be active. And I had a job at an early age as well. So my first job was 13 years old. You mentioned about having an existential crisis at 13. What was that turning of the page for you? Yeah, that was wild. That's how I think about that really when I get asked that question.
Let's go think about, I was sitting just at a desk in my old, my old house with old box computers. And, you know, it was like this hiring calling was like, you know, here to do something great. Didn't know what it was. I just started writing notes on my computer and then I saved it and dropped it to my email that I still have. It was like, I'm going to be a UFC champion. Like, this is some crazy, can I talk about this podcast? Yeah, you can. Yeah, absolutely.
It's crazy shit. They're like, I want to be like president. I want to be a UFC champion. I want to be like the Spartan Gladiator. It was like a ton of stuff. And actually, I'm sure this but for whatever reason, I envision like I could like see death at an earlier age than normal people would. So I like it. I wasn't afraid of for whatever reason, the 40 years old was in my mind. It was like death before 40.
That's not what I wanted or want. But I was okay with like going all gas until I was done in a sick way. Well, I think it's a lot easier to become president now. So maybe you want to visit that. I want to check that in the bag. All right. Well, then, as far as the UFC champion, I know you know you're in the martial arts now. Were you doing martial arts back when you were younger too?
Yeah, so I was I was always passionate with word culture. Spartans Gladiators Vikings, just combative men that were the best of their time. So I was trying to find something to equivalent myself and it was the UFC champion at that point in my mind. So I started training at Rain Training Center kickboxing and having a much MMA fights. Well, I was like 17, 16, 17. What about career aspirations? At that point, what were you dreaming of becoming?
I wanted to be a UFC world champion. So that was your focus. Okay. Yeah, I was working part time ballet and living at home and just training twice a day. And I was fighting like so 16, 17 fighting like Mark Munoz, Chelsun and like a bunch of ATJ, Dolshaw. I'm much used to fighters when I was 16, 17, just getting my ass hanged to me. I just started to forge and create something at a super young age. And where were you training? Was it in Anaheim or somewhere else?
Rain Training Center was in Lake Forest. So not too far. Lake Forest, California, Orange County. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing that area has so many good gyms. I trained at it was called No Limits, but it was Colin Oyama and he was training Carla Esparza, Ian McColl and Shane Del Rosario who actually ended up dying from an overdose himself. But some really, really good fighters through that camp too. Nice. I was actually not there not too long ago training Jiu Jitsu.
Oh really? Yeah. Giva Santana, the arm collector, I think they called him. He was an amazing guy. So humble, but yeah, phenomenal Jiu Jitsu guy. Absolutely. What belt are you? So when I did that, I did Muay Thai with those guys. I didn't do the Jiu Jitsu. And then as a firefighter, I'd work in shifts. I did Jiu Jitsu for a while, but my training was so inconsistent and I was so damn tired. Nothing would even stay in my head.
So then I kind of I got my blue belt almost out of pity, I think from the jungle in Orlando. And then I've been at a gym now here consistently for about a year and a half. But if you don't show up in a gi, you don't get any stripes. So they keep telling me to put a gi on. So I'm working towards my purple, but I'm not there yet. Nice. Good stuff.
So, all right, well then you want to be a UFC champion. You're fighting some of these big names that we recognize. Walk me through where that journey takes you. So I had my first fight when I was 17, I think. I lost in the second round with TKO. And then I won four. So I was four and one. So that was from like 17 to 20. And just working ballet, training, training, training, dealing with some injuries. But just that was my goal vision. Like I was going to do it. I was progressing fast.
And then, like I said, my family's from Boston, Mass. So growing up in my old house, there's a picture kind of like, not like this one, but my dad like in our living room, crossing the Boston Marathon. This timestamp photo and I was like, you know, I walk in the front door and I see it every day. And we're watching TV and the Boston Marathon.
And Terence blew up kids and fucked everyone up. And they had a 180 turn of God felt like, or he was like, you're being a selfish prick. You're being self-fulfilling, selfish asshole. go protect your country. And I was like, copy that. So I did a 180 turn and was like, how do I serve my country at the highest level I can? And then I started researching, I thought about what the SEAL team was worth through my best friend's cousin. It was not teams at the time. Now what about
as far as the ocean? Anaheim isn't right next to the ocean, the area, so were you swimming a lot when you were younger or was that something that you kind of got into when you entered the Navy? My dad threw me in the pool with no floaties, I was like five or something. I could swim in the ocean, I was not a great swimmer. I was very much avid, if not blow avid. So what is your recruitment
story then? Because I've heard, especially the Navy guys, the fear of being placed anywhere if you don't pass BUDs is motivation itself for a lot of people. So what was your recruitment story and then let's get to your BUDs experience? I was either lucky or maybe my intent purpose was so apparent when I walked into the recruiter's office. I said, I'm here to be SEAL, I don't want to hear another word about anything else. That's it. And said, okay.
And then I started doing training for the PSD, the fiscal standard test, so push ups, pull ups, sit ups, run, swim. And I trained for about a year in the ocean and in the pool. My buddy taught me the combat side stroke. Got the time so then like 12 months or so. And then I got a contract to go to BUDs. And before I even went to the recruiter's office, after the Boston marathon, I was like still in that existential crisis mode.
Even that long later, seven years later, I would sit in my room and the pitch dark, I would turn the lights off as sick and like demented as it sounds. And just think about like, what is, what am I actually trying to do here? Why am I doing it? And am I willing to like go to the death to complete the training, which my friend's cousin said, like you must be willing to die. And at first I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And then I like was like, okay, the training was like that.
After researching Hell Week and all that. So six months later, after every night, sometimes I would stay up all night long. And my adventure, my answer was yes. And one more snippet on that was I had a another like, I had a lot of experience. So I'm 20 years old at this point. And almost, almost was like meditating. So I was getting like either hallucinating or just going super deep internally. And this like dark presence, like honestly wearing a hoodie.
It was like all over my shoulder. Couldn't see him. I didn't turn around, but it was a presence of like, of death. It felt like, felt like just blackness in the end. And he said, I'm going to test you like, when you're saying you're willing to die, but like you better fucking mean it basically. And then I had another meeting with him shortly about a year after that.
How did that factor into when you're now, you know, in Hell Week and all the different crucibles that you have to go through for Seal Selection? Yeah, it helped me tremendously because before I even signed maybe papers, contract, I had already made it through. Or I was, I was going to die. So it was like, there was no thought of going to the ship fleet if I quit. It just, it didn't exist there at all. Not even an ounce,
a sliver. So it was like very much peaceful, knowing like I'll be a seal or I'm dying and I'm good with either one, either outcome. So first week of Buds, we were in the pool before I get there. The class that had me, so I was class 319, Bud's class. And 318. So we were in base orientation, gearing up for first phase. And they had a a seal candidate, Daniel Deobanko, quit during
Hell Week. And then he took an Uber ride to downtown San Diego, took the Marriott elevator to the top floor and chipped off and killed himself. So they had a death in the first, in the class ahead of me. And then now I gear up a couple weeks later for for first phase. And we're doing an evolution called the Beehive, which you have a charge mask, like a scoop of water, candy pants boots, candy top. And they threw everyone in the pool. The instructors were in the pool and they hide you together
like bees, like this. So you get really close. And I had a broken nose from fighting before the Navy. So I couldn't hold the water in my mask. It was just like, just basically drowning me. So I was like, can I refill it? Instructor see me struggling, gave me a little extra love. And I'd say the least. And I started like really, really having a hard time. I shit my pants. And basically just saw the walls come in black. And then that dark figure came like right as it was closing.
And he said, you said you're willing to die. Do you mean it or not? And then I just said, yes, lights out. And then I woke up on the side of the pool deck and drowned. And then slapped me back to life. So that was the first little clip of Bud's Welcome to Bud's, I guess. So that wasn't an immediate failure. That was just a check at that point. Yeah, it was more like we have our eye on you. It was an evolution. Basically, it wasn't a timed one or a pass or fail. It was like go until you drown or
bring the bell. And actually it was the route I did. So I woke up inside the pool, started throwing up. And then the instructor said, I go ring the bell over there. And I said, fuck no. And he said, OK, we'll get the fuck back in the water. I said, cool. Put my mask on, get ready to jump in. And he said, stop. I'll stop. The instructor started yelling. And then I looked to my left on the side of the pool deck and my teammate James, Derek Lovelace, had drowned. And they were giving
him CPR. And he ended up passing him away. So we lost a guy in our class. The guy ahead of us, they lost a guy too. So that was my first hardest thing I did there, first week. That's always such a topic of conversation and rightly so. But there is a fine line between preparing someone for combat or going into a structure fire or whatever it is in uniform. Having them completely prepared and then obviously that fine line between them getting hurt
or killed. What has been your kind of philosophy, if anything at all? The first one obviously was something that that candidate clearly was carrying into selection, that that was the final straw for him to take his own life. But then the second one, trying to get people as close to drowning as possible without passing away, that's a difficult thing to do as well. So has it changed the way you look at things at all? Great question.
I believe that Bud's training, the curriculum was like, it's so perfect as far as like getting the crop of guys that are meant to do the job. And we just go to the red line. Basically the training brings you to red line and a little past it. That's it. And sometimes guys pass away and that's just the nature of the game. If nobody died ever, yeah, it sucks guys die, but it's fucking training. And they have to bring you to that point
of that. And sometimes once in a while it'll happen and it's necessary as sad as it sounds. Like because if they just shortchange the training and then you're getting dudes that aren't as hard as they should be, and guys die or they leave their buddies during a battle or something. So I think the training is phenomenal and they shouldn't change anything ever.
Yeah, I think I've seen in some of the fatalities you've had in the fire service, it wasn't so much the training, it was an unknown vulnerability in the candidate. And it might have just been dehydration and two months to drinks before, or it might have been a congenital heart issue. But yes there are times where people are pushed too hard and
that needs to be corrected 100%. But I think when most people graduate just fine and occasionally you have one of these extremely sad deaths, it does show that you're right there on that line. It's just, I guess it's down to the medicals and the assessments prior to try and see if anyone's going to be vulnerable before they get to that point. Absolutely, maybe doing a little extra screening. I think they said he might have had a heart condition so, you know,
God rest his soul. But it's just, he went out like a fucking lawyer, that's for sure. Absolutely. So you go through, you know, selection then, where do you find yourself assigned initially? So I go through selection and then I got orders to seal team seven after SQT seal qualification training. So I made it through BUDS first try.
Made it to the last attempt on a bunch of evolutions, but I just got it done through the help of my team and, you know, the guys are just fucking animals and the instructor staff. Got to team seven. My platoon was still on deployment to Iraq. So they had me go to JTAC, which is Joint Terminal Attack Controller comm school. And then I went to augment seal team three in Iraq in December 2017.
So the question I always ask people, because you know, obviously the specific nature of what people did and where they were is, you know, is none of our business in my opinion. But the human side of war, I think, is something that we don't really get to see the civilians. If you look at the news, it's either all the way one way, kill them all, let God sort them out, stack in bodies, or it's all the way the other. They're all baby killers, you know,
peaceman, all that stuff. In the middle are the men and women that we send overseas wearing our flag on their shoulder, you know, to do whatever is needed to be done. So I always ask people a two-part question. The first part, regardless of the politics that sent you, in this case, you know, to Iraq or if you want to even tie in somewhere else, was there a point where you witnessed some horrors and you realized there were some horrific people that needed to be taken care of?
Absolutely. I think, I don't think I know, like there's evil that walks the Earth. If we believe in God and good, then there must be an evil, right? So, like, yeah, there are horrific people that deserve to not walk this Earth. And they should leave as soon as possible. And if we help them get there, then even better. But I've always had strong faith. And what's blue, when I was doing it, was right and true. I didn't deviate from my morals or values. And that was what's important to me.
I didn't care who was president. Like, it's not my control. My job is to protect the guy to my left and right the best I can. And that's what matters to me. Being a good person, saving people who deserve to be saved, saving people you don't know. And then the rest that deserve to be gone can go. So the other side of that question that we also don't see, but I've heard so many amazing stories on here. Kindness and compassion amid
some of these combat zones. So what were some of the things you remember when it comes to that element? Good question. Yeah. So, you know, seeing, like, little kids overseas are like, well, they're not necessarily evil because they're, like, five years old. Like, they don't know what they're doing. So, like, maybe giving them, like, a little MRE, like, candy packet or, like, and just seeing, like, their face lit up, like,
we're the good guys. And it sucks that, like, their dad goes and, like, why does Zeus have that and kills his family or, like, other people? So just having, like, the good humanized kind soul, like, being shown over there, even in such a, like, a hellish part of the Earth. I think that was, like, really cool to see, like, from multiple people. So did you deploy somewhere else after Iraq? So after Iraq, I came back, went to
a couple more schools. I joined Mypoltun and then we went to the United Arab Emirates in March 2019. And not a crazy deployment. We did some, like, hook and climbs on ships. Not too, like, magnetic or nothing like that. But it was good. Just continued to be an asset to my team. Training like a motherfucker, I started dabbling in Jiu-Jitsu at that time, too. And just wanted to, like, lift weights, fight, learn how to shoot better, be the biggest asset to Mypoltun that I could.
And just given my all. But that deployment, nothing too crazy. Hook and climb. I ran was like putting lip and minds on ships. So we did, like, battle damage assessments and stuff like that. And then that was a seven month deployment. And then we went back on that for that. Up to this point, I mean, you had some interesting, you know, ups and downs as far as the generational element with your family, some of these existential moments that you had yourself. Where were you emotionally?
Was this taking you to a good place? Yeah, another good question. So I like deep, deeper questions. It's great. Like the depth of James Lovelace or like Daniel DiManko. My best friend, Justin Pegg, in 2018, ending up killing himself. While he went to the East Coast and I stayed on the West Coast. So I basically just had to have a bunch of compartmentalized boxes. I just kept putting stuff in there. Anything like dad's using again, box or dad's box. My own feelings were just, I didn't have
any feelings really. It was like kind of sad. It's more or less like just a wall of like my eyes are dead. And I just like, I'll deal with that shit later because I don't have time or energy to deal with it. If I like try to go to therapy and do all that stuff, and I'm not training as hard as I can, one of my platoon mates gets killed, that's my fault. So I just buried it in a sandpit for a while, which is not the right thing to do.
But maybe at the time that's maybe the time it was, but I had to deal with it at some point. Well, you said your dad was using it again. So, you know, you, he came from Boston, like you said, he moved you guys down to Southern California. You know, he's raising you. Talk to me about the fight he was having simultaneously between sobriety and addiction. My first glimpse at his addiction was when I was 15, and I quit the baseball team in high school. And he was my coach all
growing up. So he was like using Xanax and like just going on these crazy benders. Showing up to my games like high, cops everywhere, starting fights. And at that time I was like still young, so he just moved to a sober living house. And then that was it. He eventually came back and was fine. And then now it's 2020, so a year after the UAE deployment. And I'm starting to see more of like signs of he's using harder.
Because I would come home from San Diego to Orange County on the weekends occasionally when I could. And I would eventually just start to see or he would stop texting me as much as he know that would. He used to send me like a lot of prayers every morning. And then it started to slow down. And so he was battling with methamphetamine addiction, Xanax abuse. So we get a lot of weed. Mixing stuff all together. And it was getting pretty bad during COVID time.
Did it get worse because of COVID, do you think, all the isolation that we're all experiencing? It did. I don't like to blame COVID for it, for anything. It's his choice. But definitely like it's a better process of using. Because I would come home and I would say, where's Dad at? And in the backyard cleaning the yard. He's in like in a tree and we have a big ass tree in our backyard. He's like 30 feet out in the air with no ropes. And he's like 65. I ran with the fuck out of the tree.
Like I'll go do it. And he fell from 30 feet and snapped his leg. And too stubborn to call an ambulance. Like crawl to like his bed and then eventually my mom got in there. But now he's better at it. And with the cast on, now he's using more. So that's the start of like, it really started to spiral after that. So bring yourself back into this kind of timeline then. You're compartmentalizing all these traumas yourself. Where do you kind of get to a low point?
So I went to sniper school after my second deployment. It was in January 2020. And finished that prior before COVID started. And then was just doing jujitsu, getting ready for 2021 Yemen deployment. And I was locked in ready because I'm pointing now. So I have a big responsibility for my platoon. And I was honored to like, to be asked to do that job. So it's not easy. And it's all a responsibility. I wanted to carry that weight. And now it's March 2021. I'm feeling good.
And I come home to see my family before I leave. And my sister was diagnosed with Crohn's disease. Like in March 2021. So she went from 130 pounds to 80 pounds. In like two months. And she moved back home with my parents in Orange County. So it was my dad, mom, sister. And my dad was using like so, so much. It was like, I would see him for up three, four days at a time. Like just tweaked out on meth. And I just, I sat them all in like, in the kitchen.
And I told him, I was like, if I had to come back and save you, I'm going to reserve you for my whole entire life. And he said, okay. And I went on deployment a month later. So I went on deployment. And now it's July. So a few months later in the time it's going good. Yemen's a shit hole country. It's pretty crazy to see doing some like special reconnaissance ops, stuff like that. And it's July. I get a text from my neighbor. And I'm like, my neighbor.
And he's like, I found your sister in a pool of blood in the bathtub. And I guess she has Crohn's disease so she's bleeding a lot. And I was like, fuck. And then my dad was high on meth and carried her to the ambulance. Which I imagine was like brutal to like see your daughter in that state also being high. And then she texted me asking me to come home early. And I was like, yeah, things are bad. But I'm also like, this is also my family of my own.
And I was like, this is also my family overseas too. So I like waited that decision for a while, like a couple of weeks, almost a month. And then I eventually made the decision to come home early. My chief let me come back early. And I didn't tell my dad, I just wanted to like see what state he was in with the drugs. So I showed up in the door and he was stuck for five days on a meth bender talking to shadow people.
Having like full blown conversations with like someone sitting in the chair that was non-existent. It was really crazy like to see that. Heartbreaking for sure. When I think about these multiple day benders, and then I think about the sleep deprivation in my community and the forced sleep deprivation in Hell Week, you can just see how it's a vicious circle once people are on this kind of drug journey when they're on an amphetamine. Now they're staying up. Now they're getting more psychosis.
Now they're taking more drugs to deal with it. And it's just getting worse and worse and worse. Exactly. Like you go very like five and I have so much respect for five and like working like multiple days, like calls throughout the night. So you're not even getting REM sleep. You're just constantly up. You know, through the sirens like so you guys know exactly what I mean. But you're talking like crazy stuff like talking about blazing infernos, like fire, just dark. Like the devil was like just
taunting him. Really what it was. And so I like, my god was telling me to get my sister and my mom to a hotel room. Because my sister is better than she couldn't even walk. And my mom lived upstairs. My sister was living downstairs in my old room. And so I moved into a hotel room and then I told my dad I'm going to come back and go back to the house after I check in in San Diego 13. So I went back down there on like Wednesday or Thursday. I came back a day later on Friday. Or no I didn't
come back. I was at the Potters game with my best friend. Just like trying to decompress the whole like process. Because I made the decision to get out of the Navy. After seeing all that. So I had a few months on my contract. And then I got a FaceTime call from my neighbor. Which he's never even called me in my life. So it's like, I picked up the phone and I was like fuck. And my house was engulfed in flames. I was so angry at my dad for that.
And I didn't know if he was like in the house still while I was burning. So I drove to Orange County and the fire was put out like a few hours later. And you know I went to jail for felony arson. And it was like midnight. I was walking through my house. That Boston Marathon picture is gone. The room my sister was staying in was burning. Yeah. Everything was torched bro. It was bad. It's like my house was all about gasoline everywhere. So where do you go from there?
I mean your dad's incarcerated now. The rest of your family is in a hotel room. You're standing in the smoldering. What was your home? Not just a building. Which is why we always chastise firefighters about taking pictures in front of structure fires. Because like you said, it's the little things. It's the Boston Marathon picture. It's all, it's what that building meant to these people. It's so important that we're respectful around that time as well. So how do you move forward from that?
So I started doing jujitsu at 10th Planet Orange. Two days. Just to like, I was so mad at my dad. He broke our family apart. I needed to like, grab myself and just stay busy. So jujitsu did that for me. I was training in the morning. Would lift weights in the afternoon. Do jujitsu again. I was competing a lot. And I said fuck my dad. I was like, I'm done with you. And my full family hated him. Just living in the hotel with my sister and mom. Just taking care of him.
And I was driving to jujitsu on open night on a Sunday. And I see my dad walking home once outside of the street. After he got out of jail, he was like, waiting for his charges and stuff. And I was like, what the fuck happened, man? Because he's like the epitome of like, the best dad in the world. Like, raised us. Taught us all these like, um, like, who I am because of my dad. I'm like, how did I get here? And that was my first like, come to Jesus moment. Everybody want to call it to like, help
him? Because everyone disowned him. So I was like, how do I do that? I was just thinking of solutions. He was uh, I haven't shared this before, but he was homeless. And then he was living inside the burnt house. In the garage. My dude, no human like, you're going to die from cancer in like a month if you stay here. That type of shit. So, I was at open, I was at Jujitsu again in January. The house fire happened in August 2021, so it's four or five months later. And the sky sits next to me.
And it was like, are you okay? And I've never met this dude ever. I'm like, the fuck is this guy? I'm fucking with it or something. And I was like, not really. I'm not really, I'm not really that good. And he started talking to me about psyched out therapy. He was a Marine vet. And I was like, I've done psilocybin and plant medicine therapy. And he brought up Ayahuasca ceremony. And I said, I'm in dude. I like, I needed healing. Because I wanted to heal myself before I helped my dad.
Because I was like, I'm all fucked up. I'm not used to no one. So, I geared up for June 2022 Ayahuasca ceremony. And, yeah. Talk to me about the experience. I mean, your community, especially with the Ibogaine down in Mexico. I mean, I've heard so many success stories. And obviously, it's not a magic pill. They're involved, you know, the being led through the ceremony and obviously all the work with what you've unpacked once you come out
the other end. But I've heard, you know, the kind of, you know, the God molecule, 5-miodmT element where people really kind of realize, you know, what this is actually about and how we're all connected. You know, I've had some people that have had the opposite. Some pretty horrific experiences. So, what was your actual personal journey and experience like through Ayahuasca? So, it was a two day ceremony Friday, Saturday.
Before, when I was writing intentions down, what do I, when am I trying to get out of this experience, this medicine? I didn't want to over clutter my brain and have a list of like a hundred things. I feel like it would be too much. So, my shaman said just three or four top the big ones in your life. My first one was release anger towards my dad and hatred I felt. And two was, you know, like, try to feel again like a human emotion. Because I just
compartmentalized everything. It was like dead inside. And then three was get closer to my faith in God. So, it's Friday night. First night of the ceremony. And I'm sitting in the living room. And there's ten women on one side, ten men on the other side. And the shaman's to our left playing music, guiding us through our experience. So, I'm just sitting there with my eyes closed. Having some pretty crazy visuals. And I felt like a very strong wind gust in the room. I pop my eye open
and was looking around. No fan on, no door open. I was like, that's really weird. As soon as I eyes opened it stopped blowing at me. Closed my eyes like two minutes later again. And then I pop like one eye open and just like, swinted. And all the women were crying at the same time in unison. And they were like blowing air at me. They were like, like this. And I was like, what the fuck? I was looking at all of them. And their eyes are
closed. They're not even looking at me. They're just doing this. And I saw like that women nurture love. Like, could join in the middle of the room. And they like started to come towards me. And I was like, oh. And it went in my stomach and I looked down and my stomach was a burning infernal pit. My dad. And I just watched like the fire build. It was like all hatred. It was like anger. I was like, I thought I was having a stroke. That's how angry I was at him. And
it just built up. I watched it go up my neck. My head fell back. My eyes opened and flame thunders flew out of my eyes. It like dissipated all the hatred towards my dad. In like fucking ten minutes. It was done. And then it was like, I love you. I forgive you. I felt what like love was again. Because I like didn't feel like for so long. Especially from like a woman. I was like, what is this stuff? I was like didn't know what it was. And I was like overwhelmed by it.
And I was healed my first intention in fucking an hour. It's crazy. Credible. That was a that was the first night. Went to bed. Had a little breakfast. Said a prayer. Night two. I was flying through cosmic space on the second side doll experience. It was like the most beautiful color. It was like colors that were on the rainbow. Like in the color chart. It was crazy. And I was flying through like first person point of view. Through cosmic space. And there was no like words.
There was no people. It was like just energy of like everything together. And I said in my head. I was like what am I right now? And I heard the chuckle like a little giggle laugh. And I opened my eyes and like no one was laughing at me. Obviously. I closed my eyes and I said what is this place? And he said I just looked up and I was like this globe like light. I felt like God's presence. Or like everything. Everyone. All love. And he said this
is where you came from. This is where you're going to go to when you die. And my interpretation of that was I went to the heavens gates and saw the like most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. And then I said a prayer for my dad. I just prayed that he reaches out and asks for help. Because he was still avoiding or not taking ownership of what he did and not wanting the help. And then the ceremony ended and I went to Jiu Jitsu Monday two days later. And he calls me like I haven't talked
about months. And he said he didn't say hi. He's like I bet everybody could help. So. All the intentions are answered. Yeah. Amazing. Going back to the comment you made because I think so many people listening can relate to this. They just everything's almost like gray. You don't you have emotions but they're like a dampened version. It's like you turn the knob down to two. When did you remember feeling true
love? Feeling properly. Like what age were you that your last memory before it kind of started going away? Dan. I've had that before. Think of that. Like I shut off my emotions before I left the Navy. So this was you know I was 27, 28 during the ayahuasca ceremony. I don't think I felt or received the love that I was being shown till I was like 19 years old or something. A long time. Yeah. It was probably for my parents
and my family. Yeah. Well listening to you at this you can just see this emotional tug of war between the disappointment and anger from your dad's behavior when he's under the influence and clearly this incredible father that you know is who you you would love. And this is I think a really important part the whole addiction conversation. It's become so judgmental. You know addicts, crackhead, bum, you know all these words that we use.
But these are human beings that were brought up in a certain environment and you've kind of touched on you know how your dad was raised in Boston. And you know there's this void and they need this void to be filled with something. And okay you know sometimes the right mentors around there and it's filled with positive things and they end up flourishing. But more often than not it leads them down
another path. And I think you know seeing that this is a person who is struggling not you know like we said a crackhead or you know whatever you want a tweaker whatever label we want to put on them it's so kind of palpable in all this conversation we've had so far that you this is unending love for your father but these constant blows from his addiction you know are pushing you away. Yeah well I change my views on like homeless people and people who are addicted to drugs
or are. I want to like help them at least like give them the opportunity to give them perspective. So that's why I do podcasts is like it's not to tell I want to do anything I would never do that especially just like the plan medicine. It's more of like sharing a story to give them perspective on what it did for me and my family maybe it'll make them quickly think a little bit deeper and be like oh maybe this is an avenue I can take to help heal myself or someone I love.
Someone who's going to do this. So it was like heartbreaking to see that from him but I just never quit like in the Natives. I couldn't once I made a decision to help him I was like I'm going to take this job at the very end. So now he said yes to he reached out for help and brought Alaska to him. Eventually he said yes. And he did in October six months after me. Got him through there to like weekly meetings with the weekly lunches with the shaman.
Gave him like this is what it would be like more or less like how do I get there like the right diet beforehand. And he goes by himself and I see him two days after for lunch. And you know like me he had like a veil of like dead eyes for a long time. And his eyes were glowing like like he was reborn. It's crazy. And he started like tearing up in front of me which he's never like cried in front of me. Especially in a public setting I was like
what is happening. And I was like really happy because I could see it. And he said something beyond I forget. He's like besides the birth of my children this is the best thing. And suddenly he done it for me. And just started melting dude. I was like fuck. Powerful. I was so happy. Forever. Amazing. I had a firefighter I was connected with who was struggling so hard and alcohol was his addiction. But he had done the work. He'd done some counseling. He tried ketamine.
But even with the ketamine they had hooked him up and walked out. They hadn't done the therapy that's supposed to go along with the ketamine that's flowing through your veins. So he thought he was doing the right things but was not finding any success. And got him connected with an ayahuasca retreat in Houston with a friend of mine. And you know when someone goes off and does something like that you're always praying that it works because his comment to me was if this doesn't work then that's
it. And I've had a friend of mine who was also an alcoholic. And his final rehab admittance he said the same thing to me. If this doesn't work I'm done. And we all know what that means. So from after the other, you know on the other side I talked to him and they said the first day he's like James I thought this was bullshit. Nothing happened. I'm like what a waste of fucking time. He said the second day I submitted to the medicine. And it's funny because he kind of reiterates what your dad
said. He said including the birth of my children and becoming a firefighter this was the most powerful experience of my entire life. And it saved his life. And you look at the people that you lost to suicide and as I sit here in Florida we just had a suicide in my town with a visiting firefighter who was at a firefighter memorial ceremony of all things. And then Miami Beach I understand just lost one as well. So this is why these stories are so important. This is why I'm so glad that
you came on the podcast. And we'll carry on the journey. But you know it's not a magic pill but it's a tool in the toolbox that most people aren't aware of. And that gives them hope. Then you start unpacking all the things and doing the work and repairing relationships and everything else is still left to do. But this is saving lives and it needs to be at the forefront. It really does. I totally agree. It's like the stigma of like drugs are bad or you know, putting like an illegal label on them.
This medicine, what I want to say comes from Mother Earth. How can you guys put a label of it's bad. But that's where we come in and share stories and change that persona, like what it actually is. With the suicide just to backtrack a tiny bit. A couple months before my ceremony my dad called me and he was down his wall. He was like trying to describe how he was going to kill himself. I was like, I need to fucking hurry up.
He was going to do it and just if I could drive like a hundred miles an hour to him just gave him a hug. Said I love you. Like I'm glad that happened. Because everyone abandoned him so he didn't have anyone else. We ended up getting him off the bridge and then he got healed not long after. Incredible. It's amazing. Well the other thing as well is that you didn't give up. I think this is the point. Someone might be a fire department,
might be a family member. They go to rehab once and they come out and they relapse. Well that, you know, it didn't work. And if you listen to most people in their recovery stories, it takes several attempts over and over and over again. And if someone just disowns them or terminates them from a fire department or whatever the thing is when someone's struggling and they need our help, then you've just cut off all lifelines
then. So I understand that some people make it near impossible and that's why, you know, like you said, treatment facilities and some of these other halfway houses might be a valuable tool. But to just turning your back on them, you're basically signing the death certificate. So if we really love these people, we have to keep being there for them. Even if physically they can't because they're a liability. At least, you know, communication
wise, and this is what you did. You never gave up on your dad. Yeah, I did. There's like, I love him so much and he's like such a good human. Everyone loves him. Like all my friends. He just has like little demons that we all have. And, you know, just lapses of judgment and decision making. And you just need some support. And just carried the burden away for a while. Really heavy. But I would do it over it the same way. Just never giving up.
You'd be surprised, you know, if your viewers are saying like, you know, James but like, if you never quit on something, you'll never know how to. So just never quitting my life. And keep trucking along. Well, when people say as well, they make bad decisions. Let's go back to where your dad was, you know, three or four days benders. So completely seep deprived. His brain isn't working the way a brain is supposed to work. And this is what we talk about with the first responders.
After years and years of the shift work, they literally the brain's reality is distorted. And this is where I always reiterate with the the suicide conversation. The old school mentality was oh, it's selfish, it's cowardly. And you listen to people that have been there. And I've listened to hundreds of people that have been there. You start realizing that they truly believe that they were a burden to the
people that they loved. And so if they get rid of themselves, well, all the pain goes away and my family will be OK. It makes no sense to a healthy brain. But at that moment, it's actually courageous and selfless if you think about it. But it's up to us to pull them out of that because that's not the right way to thing. But so when you say, oh, you just pull yourself together, make the right decisions. If your entire reality is distorted, your decision making is distorted.
So it's up to everyone else who isn't struggling to be that baseline, to be that doc that you can more on while you get yourself straight again. Exactly. Dr. Moran, like a pillar of strength for the Milan. So important because addicts, they already hate themselves. They already they talk bad about themselves. They get themselves down. They think they're a burden.
So you can't come out to them and be like, you're an addict, you need help or necessarily attack them in that way or be like, you know, you're causing this disruption in my life. You need to come at them with a lot, a lot of love, as hard as it is. I love you, I miss you. How can I help you? That's like the that's what I found is like the right approach, at least for me, helping people is just show them love and just be there to talk to them. Just talk to them like even keeled. Don't
start yelling at each other. It's not going to get anywhere. So it's super important. Yeah, I forget who it was now, but someone told me about, you know, the intervention thing and they even had the TV shows. And I forget the percentage of success, but it was like 10 or something like that percent, because again, you're pouring guilt and shame on someone who's drowning in guilt and shame. It makes no sense. Yeah, I think it has to link to the fire, basically. No pun intended.
Yeah, I lost my train of thought right there after I said that. I'll reel you back in. So, you know, you go through the ayahuasca, your dad goes through the ayahuasca, you see this, you know, incredible gleam in his eyes again. Walk me through up to present day with him specifically, like how has he been doing? What are other tools that he's found that actually improves his healing? Yeah, so he was healed, I was healed. We started to rebuild our connection, our relationship
together. But everyone else in the family, my sisters, my mom, my brother, hate him still. So he started going to, again, a 6 a.m. prayer meeting so he would work out, I'd work out with him with weights and then he would go again at 7 p.m. and he'd do that, excuse me, every day. And that's like his routine. He used to do that every day. We need to talk every day, whether it's a few texts, a phone call, we need to communicate and that's like his baseline of staying on track. He's been sober since
ayahuasca. And that was October 2022, so over two years. Amazing. So I kept him on track and then we kept each other on track, really. He kept me on track just as much as I did him. And now I'm trying to connect like my mom back to him, my sisters and brother. So the first one was my sister and my niece, my dad's granddaughter the day of the house fire. And yeah, I'd never met her, but to this point, this was January 2024. So they hadn't talked to him for years.
And I was like, Sarah it would be cool for dad to meet his granddaughter. So she said only if you're there to mediate it. So we just went to lunch and I walked around the park in Long Beach. And the alcohol went great. Met his niece and now they talk all the time. Now he babysits her and has a relationship with his sister, his daughter and his granddaughter. So that was the first one. My mom hates his guts. Like she's married to him for 40 years. Can only imagine how mad he was.
And I brought up MDMA therapy that they use for first responders, combat veterans, people with PTSD. And she said no for the longest time. Like two years. And I'm not asking her to do it. I'm just giving her like, my mom's done it. It's amazing. It helps a lot of people. Here's some research articles on it. Eventually she said yes. And the deciding factor of that was I went up to her apartment and I didn't ask her to do anything. I just started
crying randomly. Just saying like, it's like I'm super sad to see you sad. And that was like the perspective she needed. And I ended up at home with her. So she ended up doing MDMA therapy. This amazing therapist that works with a lot of team guys and special operators. And the therapist asked me to get handwritten letters from everyone in my family, including everyone in Boston. So I got the letters, put in an envelope and my mom came over to give me a hug before.
And I gave her the package and it had the therapist's name on it. She didn't know what it was. I said this is a gift for your therapist. She said okay. And it was all the letters inside. So she goes to the ceremony. And the therapist says stay up. I had been up all night because I didn't want my mom to she bailed on the ceremony two months prior. Like last minute. So I just stayed up and was going to like drive to her house if she didn't get here by 9am.
Or she tried to call me the middle of the night back here. I was like hell no. And then the therapist texted me with photos of my mom on this couch. Like melting away. Like reading a letter from my dad. It was just like I love you. Sorry. It was incredible. I was so happy. So my mom really saw that hatred towards you too. And she's good now. She's like back to her old self. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Bob's good. My other sister that had Crohn's disease or has Crohn's disease.
She's like such a hardworking independent woman. I love her so much but she just wouldn't like she just compartmentalized like I did with my dad. And I wrote a father's day post this year in June. And I had a photo of me hearing my dad in it. Just like I love you dad. Happy father's day type thing. And she calls me and she's like take that fucking photo down right now. I look like shit. And we were like 18 years old. 15 or something in the picture. We all looked like shit back then.
Yeah. I was like and meeting my brain was like that's not what she's actually mad about. And in my mind I was like oh she's still very very much mad at him. And it hasn't really seen any of that anger. So I left the photo up. I said no. That was a dick move. But I felt my gut was telling me leave it up because she needs to like really just like process why she's angry. She calls me like six hours later and was crying just saying I didn't realize how angry I was.
I was like I'm not going to do this. I didn't realize how angry I was at him. And then she I was like it'd be cool if you texted him happy father's day. And she did. So she had talked to him for three years. And now their really relationship began. Good stuff. Yeah. Amazing. The MDMA again I had done that recreationally and danced and hugged a lot of people. And so I saw that it was I can see the potential
of it in this. And I actually plan on doing that particular therapy myself because it's not a thing. But I feel like that kind of journey will maybe open some boxes I didn't realize were there. You know what I mean? But so this is the point though. You've got ayahuasca. You've got Ibogaine. You've got MDMA. You've got ketamine. It's all this entire group of other things. And then cambo and you know, Poyote and even more. That people just you know not even don't know about. They're told
not to know about it. It's evil. It's the devil's letters. It's you know whatever it is. And yet this is the area where I'm seeing so much success. And yes then it can be combined with talk therapy and EMDR and some of these other things if needed. But you know you have and I've underlined this a lot recently. The FDA denied MDMA led therapy to be used you know to be I guess prescribed, used medically. And yet the FDA approved Oxycontin which caused the immense opioid
crisis that we have today. So you know the more awakening we have on how effective a lot of these treatments are and how for example our Navy SEALs, they literally fight for this country. Our firefighters and police and dispatchers and everyone else protects this country. And yet we have to go overseas to get the treatment for what we see and what we have to do. I mean
it's just pure insanity. So listening to not only the person in uniform but the family around them also being healed by these incredible you know plant medicines or therapeutics. Every single guest, every single layer I hope adds more and more argument and debunks a lot of the fear around these treatments.
Absolutely and that's getting too political but it's just a giant money you know spin machine giving pills every month you know that don't work that actually makes everything way worse rather than going to an ayahuasca ceremony and having a full blown like I was like healed in a weekend and I don't need any I don't take any pills for to fix
me. It's just it was like a one stop shop not say it was like a magic pill but it gave me that big 180 turn and now I have other things I do to keep me on the track. Jujitsu, my family, friends, my girlfriend now it's like it's such a big tool and people are starting to like more and more opening their eyes to like thinking differently or thinking for themselves or listening to people and their their stories.
This stuff's so powerful I didn't realize like the reach or the effect it would have until I did like my Britlands podcast and the overwhelming amount of messages was like people sharing their life trauma with me that I've never met and I was like who have you told this to and they're like no one and I'm like
what? It was like so special and like I didn't take it lightly so I just screenshot them and I put them in a hidden folder just to look at and I was like this is my purpose is to help people through sharing stories. Powerful men so People use the word resilience you know I think a lot of times they think of you know assault courses in the military selection or you know the mazes that we do in the fire school and oh that's how you become tough and resilient.
What I realize is all resilience is is working through your struggles, your traumas and that becomes you know a badge of honor it really does it becomes you know that analogy of the Japanese pottery with the gold glue that they use to be proud of your you know your scars and this I think then puts hope into the mental health conversation the post-traumatic growth on the other side over and over and over again you see that people aren't even aren't just a better
version of themselves but they're also a beacon of light for other people because they see you emerge out the other end like how did you do that you know and then that because you're being vulnerable because you told your story today and you're a Navy SEAL then a lot of people that were kind of believing this men don't cry you know rub some dirt and it suck it up bullshit go wait a second Zach was in tears talking about you know what he went through so maybe I'm not
a giant pussy maybe this is normal what I'm going through and I can you know get whatever my personal toolbox looks like and be that beacon for other people as well and you nailed it right there that was like the perfect like a caption of what we're talking about is like I'm crying on camera in front of random people and I'm a SEAL or I was a SEAL like I don't care like the ego is gone already it's been a long time ago and like I'm human I'm very much average like
to make it through SEAL training I was not a track star I was not a super human just a regular person with like our phrase that uncommon desire to succeed a common man with uncommon desire to succeed and just never quitting don't quit on yourself don't quit on your loved ones there's always an answer and don't be afraid to be vulnerable and ask for help lean on people don't feel like you're a burden and you know if you never quit you'll literally never know how to
get back to life and that's like my life story in a nutshell. Well let me ask you this too because I think one of the other ways of framing this for the kind of naysayers are still kind of buying into the stigma is
the performance side. I had a guest on and he was a former professional baseball player and we're talking about flow state Logan Gellbridge and he said you know for to get into a flow state you need three things you need the 10,000 reps of training or hours of training stress which again most of us in first responders or military we have a version of both of those that he said and then you need a calm mind so to be the best operator to be the best firefighter paramedic
you need to address that maelstrom in your mind you need to calm it so that you can get in that flow state you can critically think you can make life and death decisions when you need to so what have you seen as far as your performance after this you know ayahuasca and beyond?
Yeah so I'm very much introvert like shy I don't mind sitting in a room full of people and not saying anything not that I'm a weirdo but just shy by nature it's helped me like even more so even after steel training I harness like all human emotions and to be able to think even keeled not see red at all and that's why like when I could be in jujitsu and like my friends are family watched me and they're like almost like you're like sleeping or like you're just like chilling in a chair
and like my mind is so calm just cause I've been through so much cue and emotion that I'm able to like I find myself feeling these and I could just be like toned down toned down toned up this and just keep them all level and that helps you just be stable and not make bad decisions through anger or anything like that so and that's transcribed into all my life like I'm learning about my relationship we're talking to my dad like patience and me asking for help like everything all in one
super important You mentioned earlier about the ability to receive love from a woman too how has that shifted now because I think this is something that plagues a lot of first responders we become this kind of you know armored version of ourselves and we lose the ability to love or feel loved Craig Washington I wasn't able to receive love for a long time and I've been in a relationship for six months now and it's like that first time like someone showing me love and I'm like fine I'll take it
before I was like no denying it was not true or just being like I'm not worthy of it am I deserving of it and now I'm like after Birdman Ryan's podcast I do deserve it like I will take it and I'll give it back as much as possible and that's been the biggest thing this year is like receiving love and my life's way better for it and it's hard to do it took a long time but it's important you have to love yourself as well like don't kick yourself down love yourself absolutely well Ryan's
one of the people that says I love you to me and vice versa and I love this kind of movement again men are telling each other that they love each other you know I mean I went around the world with Ryan on that 7X adventure and you know just see what an incredible human being he is like I do love that guy you know so I think the ability to obviously deeply love a partner but also you know whether it's your team whether it's your crew and a fire engine whether it's just
the people in your community I think that we've had that shut down so much you know and it's you know all this kind of ridiculous two dimensional rhetoric on what men are supposed to do which is absolute bollocks because it's based on actors in Hollywood normally to refine the love of everyone you know especially you know men being able to love other men we were literally willing to die for each other there's no greater love than that I don't know what is you know
exactly yeah I told random people I love you all the time now it's like never pass up an opportunity to say that just tell it to your family randomly text it to them call them like they need to like I might change someone's life especially tell them to like a random person especially like male to male like it's not what we used to do so like I said someone and they were like started crying and then opened up about something to deal with like maybe they just needed to hear that
from someone especially from another guy that's like it's such a easy but not easy thing to do but people need to do it yeah same as a simple hug it's amazing how you hug some people and they hug you strongly and you realize that they really needed that hug at that moment exactly yeah that's full but exactly all right well then moving to what you're doing today then talk to me about the weapons training that you're doing and what the company offers so Mike Odad was on SEAL Team 7 he actually
put me through third phase in BUDS and he started this company Defense Strategies Group in 2020 and basically we teach firearms self defense to you know moms dads firearms safety courses for kids just teach people how to defend themselves and their family in their home and it's been incredible I started I joined in DSG through Angel Gortez who's an army ranger he has this company called the O.G.
Pumpkin he was a gangster yeah he you know got out of that life joined the army now he gets back to his community and met him at a Jiu Jitsu open mat he threw for veterans and you know I just chatted up with him and he asked me to if I wanted to be a guest instructor at the pistol shooting course because it was Angel and Mike and a sitcher and then they invited me a few more times and then eventually asked me to join and sat down with them for almost two years it's been incredible just
now like the purpose my purpose is back and the brother I lost when I left the Navy is reconnected and I've never been happier like oh those guys my life for that and we just opened a gym called Training Center LA MMA combatives gym so now we teach Jiu Jitsu Muay Thai self defense classes that was three months ago so now we're full steam just trying to give back our knowledge share our stories and build a community of people that are looking for purpose in home and learn how to defend themselves
beautiful what about you mentioned about training kids what's your philosophy on educating children and getting them familiar with firearms in an environment where for example America where they just are everywhere at the moment versus keeping them away and you know and not making them almost scared of them and God forbid one day they come across one by a mistake exactly so we're basically showing them like you know if you see a gun don't touch it get a parent but if you for whatever reason had
to this is how you clear and safe it this is how it works these are the safety rules like respect the firearm but don't be scared of it it's not a toy just a tool it's it's been fun working with them and teaching the kids jujitsu classes like just building hard men again strong kids like you know get off your phone and scrap each other and like this is the martial arts way like be kind to people don't be a bully but if you have to defend yourself you're
you know your brother or sister your family then you have the tools to do that and just building building strong people again because we live in a weak society so or changing that course changing the course absolutely yeah I said this the other day on an interview I think it was one of the gracies that said this but if every child was taught jujitsu or a martial arts you know a lot of the bullying would go away and it's not that everyone will be tough and be able to fight the
bullies it's the fact that the bullies themselves will be humbled and start learning you know the respect and the teamwork and you know all the elements that martial arts do bring and I agree 100% I mean you know as we all know most bullies are cowards and they're just trying to make themselves feel better by dragging someone down well the martial arts will lift that person up you know because they've probably got weak men at home if they're becoming a bully so
the mentors in the martial arts gym maybe would fill that void and maybe that would even permeate back to the parents and elevate them too I totally agree bullies are basically people with massive insecurities there's like I say it's a lot of insecurities loud and bullies are very loud insecure have like trauma that they're just putting on other people to mask their own healing it just keeps getting passed down by generation to generation so if you break that
mold when they're young then they won't be able to pass it down like down the bloodline forever eventually just get stopped in the middle and they could rebuild from there absolutely well I want to shift some closing questions so I can be mindful of your time the first one I love to ask is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated it's going to be a little funny answer I've asked this one so far
I've never read a book start to finish I failed at or I almost failed at high school I cheated my way through high school didn't want to read the closest book though that I read the most is the bible and I read like prayers every morning or on my app and I recommend that and I do a lot of research things so I find topics that intrigue me keeps doing that and I would say just pick a topic that you're interested in and then just find a book that is recommended like
I can't necessarily give one because I haven't read one start to finish but for me it was the bible well the bible is a good good one a lot of people love it alright then what about films and movies oh sorry films and documentaries should I say films I was more cultured from movies like gladiator the patriot same proud ryan shit like that like just I like just like violence you know people being skilled in their craft and I love the way those movies were made I also really like documentary
free solo with alex honnell the rock climber he just like because I related to him like he wasn't afraid to die he was willing to do that to achieve something that's never been done so I was like I understand where his mind was at and I thought that he filmed that and he could like go inside his brain which is very interesting I recommend those for sure yeah I think one of the biggest take aways as well is if you actually listen to it the preparation he wasn't just like oh I'm gonna try it
you know and if I die I die it was it was you know years of preparation and making sure that for each section that he was gonna be able to do it and then sequentially gonna be able to do it so it reminds me a lot of the bass jumpers I've had on you know they one of them my friend he said a lot of people in whatever it is will say well we need to be 95% effective he's like in bass jump you have to be 100 you know 99 means that you ended up splattered on the ground so you know their diligence
and their preparation is actually you know paramount and so the application for the military for a firefighter is the same you know when your life is at stake or someone else's life is at stake we should be thinking that way we should be thinking like Alex Honnold now we're obviously responsible for such a huge set of skills we can't be experts in every one of them but we can at least try and elevate as much as we can yeah basically being a perfectionist like preparing to where you're so
confident in the task you're about to do yeah it's like like you said preparation and the work put in like his life was that is that and he's able to achieve that by just grinding super fucking hard and yeah it's incredible incredible documentary amazing there's another one oh my goodness the alpinist have you ever seen that one um i've heard of it i have not but let me write that down yeah watch it i can't tell you anything about it it's one of those ones you've got to go for the ride
but uh if you love free solo you'd love that one as well awesome i'll check it out all right well then the next question is there a person you'd recommend become on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders military and associated professionals of the world yes one that just came in mind is my my good friend ian funk um his instagram is grappler with a sign he's a marine veteran and jujitsu brown belt and he's a fireman um just finished paramedic school so he's an incredible
human being um he has a deep story actually is also from boston was a golden glove uh boxer just a great human i think he'd be incredible i would love to hear i don't think he's ever been on one so i think you guys could relay down on topics and just a great dude yeah beautiful yeah i'd love to if you could make that happen and make the connection that would be amazing let's do it absolutely awesome brilliant all right well then the last
question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you and dsg what do you do to decompress for me to decompress jujitsu competing in jujitsu it just grounds me it it quiets my mind to basically no thoughts um now it's hanging out with my girlfriend whether we go to the shooting range go to the beach hang out i'm a very simple man um the beach jujitsu hanging out with friends and family beautiful well for people that want to learn more about you want to find dsg
where are the best places online and on social media um instagram my instagram is at zach ferg z-a-c-e-k-k ferg you have to type out the full thing because i'm shadowed in uh and then defense strategies group at defense strategies group instagram and then at training center la is our mma gym if you want to come uh learn some self-defense classes come by stop by anytime beautiful i you said you got shadow banned i got shut down by instagram the other day for sharing literally a positivity post
and i have no idea why i'm sure there's a you know backstory of you know who knows who knows why it was completely innocent so i have no idea anyway so i sent you another request it's behind the shield 9112.0 so okay um you'll be able to find me again but yeah looks like we've both been having a shitty time on instagram huh yeah it's crazy um just want to say thank you uh james for having me on um you know behind the shield podcast guys check it out um and then ryan birdman
appreciate you connecting us together i love you love both of you and uh i'm stoked to share my story thank you for having me on and your time and what you do and being a fireman too it's like i love firemen i have so much respect for you guys so thank you guys for everything thank you mate love you too